1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: In recent years, one of the most popular new sports 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: leagues has been the Women's National Basketball Association. I had 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: a chance to sit down recently with Kathy Engelberg, who's 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: the commissioner of the WNBA, to ask her how she's 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: helped to transform the WNBA into a very popular sport. 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the WNBA as a business and make 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: sure I understand how many teams are there. 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: So starting the season, there'll be thirteen teams. We had 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: twelve for a long time. Thirteen teams on our way 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: to sixteen or more. 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Who's the new team? 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: The new team is in the Bay Area, the Golden 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: State Valkyries, and they're going to kill it this year 14 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 2: off the court for sure, and on the court they'll 15 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: be They had an expansion draft, so it'll be interesting 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: to see. 17 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: Hey, so you have thirteen teams. Are you planning to 18 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: expand to more now? 19 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? So we've announced team fourteen and fifteen in Toronto 20 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: and Portland, and we have a process right now for 21 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 2: additional teams where we have a lot of demand and 22 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: a lot of ownership groups around the country interested. 23 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: Each team has how many players? 24 00:00:58,840 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: Twelve twelve players? 25 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: You've got one hundred and forty four professional players. 26 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, one, fifty six this year fifty six. 27 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: Okay, So today the league is well known for having 28 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: some stars like Caitlyn Clark among others Angel Rees as well. 29 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: Is that kind of competition between Angel Rees and Caitlin 30 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: Clark helping your TV ratings? And is that worked out 31 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: well for you to have Caitlin Clark in the league. 32 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: You know, when I came into the league. People watch 33 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: sports for three basic reasons, for rivalries, for games of consequence, 34 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: and for household names if you know the players, and 35 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: we didn't have a lot of household names, even though 36 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: we had amazing players back then and have amazing players 37 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: beyond Caitlin and Angel. So rivalries are generally good for 38 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: sports and women's sports. Sometimes it's complicated by the social 39 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: media vitriol, which we did announce. It's terrible what some 40 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: of these players have to endure. And so the hatred, 41 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: the vitriol, the misogyny, the homophobia, the racism, there's no 42 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: place for it in sport, and we like to be 43 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: known in sport as a big uniter. So that's the 44 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: negative part of that. But the positive certainly has been 45 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: that people are watching. I mean we brought tens of 46 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: millions of new people into our sport last year because 47 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: this rivalry came out of college. 48 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: Okay, well, take Caitlyn Clark. She was very famous at 49 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: the University of Iowa, and she came into the league 50 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: and she had more attention probably than anybody who came 51 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: in as a rookie, Rookie of the Year, and so forth. 52 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: But it seemed as if she was getting beaten up 53 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: a little bit or being treated relatively roughly. Why would 54 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: the other players who would see that she's making the 55 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: league more visible and more profitable, why were they kind 56 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: of giving her a rough time. 57 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that narrative became the narrative. But 58 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: I think, you know, we have a really exciting, fast paced, 59 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: physical game. The physicality I think surprised a lot of 60 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: the new fans that came in games pretty physical in college. 61 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 2: But then when you come to WNBA and it's all 62 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: the great players from the best colleges in one place, 63 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: one hundred and forty four of them last year with 64 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 2: our twelve teams, we're expanding now, so I think it 65 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: was very physical at first for a lot of new 66 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: eyes on the game. I think there were unfortunately some 67 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: inappropriate plays that happened. But over the course of the 68 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: whole season, I think Caitlin really adjusted well, so did 69 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: Angel because Angel was very physical for her at first two. 70 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: And I think all of our rookies or Kia Jackson 71 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: and Cameron Brink got heart early in the season. But 72 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 2: you know, they all adjusted to the physicality of our game, 73 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: and I think our fans didn't adjust as quickly, and 74 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 2: then that narrative kind of got away from us. 75 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: Now, recently, Adam Silver, the head of the commissioner of 76 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: the NBA, negotiated on behalf of the NBA and the 77 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: w NBA a contract, a TV contract for many years 78 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: that was said to be worth roughly seventy six billion 79 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: dollars over some period of time, and you get part 80 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: of that as I understand it. So were you happy 81 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: with that arrangement. 82 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: Yes, we actually negotiated our own deal, but along when 83 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: you partner and what I call go to market with 84 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: the NBA. The NBA and WMBA are the only two 85 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: major professional sports in the US that have essentially opposite seasons. 86 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: Were made to October. They're October to June, but April 87 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: is the end of their regular season, so we could 88 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: provide think about the disruption and the media landscape from 89 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: linear to streaming to subscription models, and we together with 90 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: the NBA can provide over three hundred and twenty plus 91 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: days of programming, So we hit all twelve months for 92 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: programming for a streamer, even if it's NBC and Peacock 93 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: er Amazon, So it was a huge advantage. We're much 94 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: more valuable going to market with them on this deal 95 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: with NBC and ABC, ESPN, Disney as well as Amazon, 96 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: So that was a huge positive for us and we 97 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: had a great deal. It's historic for women's sports. 98 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: How long is the contract fork. 99 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: So that contract's eleven years? 100 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: Eleven years and you get two to three billion of 101 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: that something like that. 102 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. But after three years we have an option 103 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 2: to renegotiate around the price of that if we keep growing, 104 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: because we've grown the league enormously just in a couple 105 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: of year period, so we after three years have an option. 106 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: We also have the option to enter an additional media 107 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: rights deals. I call them our Trench two deals, and 108 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: we're in the process of negotiating those. 109 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: So you have an option after two or three years 110 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: to negotiate presumably a higher price. Yes, did they have 111 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: an option to negotiate a lower price? No? 112 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: I think it's an option to take a look at 113 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: the growth of the league, and if we continue on 114 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: the growth trajectory, it's to provide more value, especially because 115 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: ultimately that value goes to the players. 116 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: So today, how are your TV ratings compared to the 117 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: NBA or your assume a fraction of it, but how 118 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: do you compare or do you get ten percent of 119 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: what they get? 120 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: Twenty last year we had an unbelievably historic year. Our 121 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: average was at one point two million, huge increase over 122 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: prior years. 123 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: Two million people watching watching. 124 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: Average average some games TV linear. We would peak in 125 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: the US, a US only number, that's not a global number. 126 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: We have a lot of global fans too, and that's 127 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: an untapped area of growth for US. But we continue 128 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: to look at a huge increase in that viewership. I 129 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: mean even our draft at peak last year, over three 130 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: million people watch the WNBA Draft. Last year our All 131 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: Star Game over two million people. These were all time records. 132 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 2: And remember we don't necessarily compare ourselves with the NBA 133 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: or other men's sports. They've been around the NBAS in 134 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: their seventy eighth year. NFL, NHL, and MLB are all 135 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: over one hundred years old. We're going into our twenty 136 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: ninth season this year, so these comparisons to men's league 137 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 2: are tough, but certainly where we are today, I never 138 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: thought we'd have as high viewership as we had last year. 139 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: It's often the case that these players have to fly 140 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: commercial historically. Now, as a result of your new arrangement, 141 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 1: you can afford to have and every team can afford 142 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: to have a kind of a special. 143 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 2: Jet or a charter program. 144 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Is that part of the deal. 145 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: Now, Yes, It's something we've been working on since I 146 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 2: came into the league. We've been chipping away at it. 147 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 2: We offered it during certain games previously years ago, chipping 148 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: away at it for full playoffs two years ago, and 149 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: then last year because I knew where we were tracking 150 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: for the media rights. But we needed to build an 151 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 2: economic model to fundness. It wasn't just like you wave 152 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 2: a wand and you can give a twenty to thirty 153 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: million dollar benefit to someone through charter travel. So I 154 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: felt very confident, our owners felt confident that we had 155 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: been building an economic model to sustain it over the 156 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: long term. Because it also can't be you just offer 157 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: it for a year or two. We need to think 158 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: about it for decades. That we were able to afford it, 159 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: and so I felt good about that and we did 160 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: it outside of collective bargaining cycle. 161 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: Now, the NBA has something called a salary cap, and 162 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: I guess a salary floor. Do you have a salary cap? 163 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: Yes, we do. We have a hard cap under the 164 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: current CBA. Obviously that CBA will be up after this 165 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: year and we'll be negotiating a new deal. 166 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: You've done quite well, But there's any team profitable at 167 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: this point by normal profitability standards. 168 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think our teams are making enormous progress towards profitability. 169 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: They're just growing. But what they're doing, which we love, 170 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: is because they have so much confidence in the growth 171 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: trajectory either turning around and anything, they might be making 172 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: their investing back. We have at least six teams who 173 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: are now have built, are building new practice facilities. They're 174 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: working on a lot of different things to invest in 175 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: the player experience because our free agency has become such 176 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: an important part of building a roster to win a championship. 177 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: So they're all taking the upswing in attendance gate for them, 178 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: corporate partnership money for them, and they're investing it back 179 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: in the business today. 180 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,559 Speaker 1: How many owners of w NBA teams are women? 181 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: Well, again, we have NBA affiliated owners, independent owners, We 182 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: have an all women ownership group, three women up in Seattle. 183 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: We have diverse ownership at the minority investor level. Obviously 184 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: all the NBA teams are primarily owned by men, but 185 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: we're making some progress there with diverse ownership groups. And again, 186 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: as we look at expansion, we look for the diversification 187 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 2: of that group. 188 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: So in college basketball, the average game or the game 189 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: is how long in terms of length of time? 190 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: So again in women's they have four quarters forty minutes. 191 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: We played four quarters forty minutes in professional or in 192 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: professional then yeah, if you pay four quarters forty minutes 193 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: forty minutes total each quarter is ten minutes. 194 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: Yes, okay? And today is that likely to change or 195 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: the rules going to change any way shape or form 196 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: that you know? 197 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think, you know. One of the things 198 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: when I came in I assessed kind of the strategy 199 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: and the quality of the game, and the importance of 200 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: the brand. And the one thing that when I looked 201 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: at the game. There's not much to tweak about the game. 202 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 2: I mean, pure shooting, pick and rolls, great rebounding, great play. 203 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: People who we've brought in those tens of millions and 204 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: new fans love the game. So I don't think there's 205 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: much to tweak in the game. And we use more technology, 206 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: can officiating you know, advance and evolve, yes, But the 207 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: game itself, I think the quality of the game was something. 208 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 2: You know, it's probably the only thing we didn't need 209 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: to actually pick up a stone and totally change. 210 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where 211 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: are you from. 212 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm from Philadelphia and you were born there. Yeah, born 213 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, grew up in right across the bridge in 214 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: southern New Jersey and one of eight kids. I have 215 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 2: my brothers. 216 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm an only child, so I don't know what that's like. 217 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: What is it like to have seven siblings. 218 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, especially five brothers three older, so I 219 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: was their fourth and everything from whiffleball to soccer, to hockey, 220 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,359 Speaker 2: street hockey to basketball. Grew up very athletic family, very competitive, 221 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: like my sister and I would compeach you and I 222 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 2: are only thirteen months apart, compete for everything, including food, 223 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: and we'd hide food in our rooms because the brothers 224 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: would steal all the food. So it was a fun upbringing. 225 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: Continues to be very close knit family. 226 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: Oh what did your father do to support a family 227 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: of eight children? 228 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: So my father worked for RCA and was an IT 229 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: guy and early like we used to have the punch cards, 230 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: he'd bring punch cards home, an early it kind of manager. 231 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 2: Unfortunately died young in nineteen eighty seven. But my mom 232 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: worked for sixty two years for the same place for 233 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: a pediatrician as their office manager as that business grew. 234 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: So you know, both my parents worked, and my mom, though, 235 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: you know, was able to balance it all and raise 236 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: eight children on the way. 237 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: You were an athlete in high school? Yes, and what 238 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: sports did you play? 239 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: So? I actually played tennis, basketball on lacrosse in high school, 240 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: and I was recruited for lacrosse in college. I was 241 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: a walk on for basketball. Back in the mid eighties, 242 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: you could play two sports in college at a D 243 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: one level. Today you can't do that, But back then 244 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: I played both lacrosse and basketball. 245 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: So you were the captain of both teams. Yes, you're 246 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: playing two sports and eventually you have to graduate. So 247 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: you graduate, and you said, I want to be in 248 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: sports or I want to be going to Deloitte. 249 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: Well, actually it all dates back to sophomore year when 250 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: I was a computer science major and I had to 251 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: take a programming course in Fortran and I said, I 252 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: have no idea what that professor's talking about. Someone said, 253 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 2: there's this thing called the Business School, Cathy, you should 254 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: transfer to it. And there's something called accounting and it's 255 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: the language of business, and you'll get a job. Because 256 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: it was the big eight accounting firms back then, so 257 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: I didn't know who said it was the language of business. 258 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: I found out later that was Warren Buffett, and you'll 259 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: get a job. I got a job pretty easily back 260 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: then and started with Deloitte. 261 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: In those days, I can't imagine that women were being 262 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: seen as potential CEOs of big accounting firms. So as 263 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: you imagine when you started you would be the CEO. 264 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: No, because I think at the partner ranks when I started, 265 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 2: it was probably five percent women partners, so it was 266 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: pretty new, you know, as far as the trajectory for women. 267 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: Never thought that I would be the CEO. Never aspired 268 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: to be the CEO quite frankly, but your specialty was what? 269 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: So my specialty back then was I worked in a 270 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: variety of clients, growing up manufacturing snls back during the 271 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: SNL crisis. Bank I settled more once I had my kids, 272 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: in the pharmaceutical sector as well as consumer products. But 273 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 2: I was a derivative financial instrument specialist at the firm, 274 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: which gave me tons of tons of valuation expertise. 275 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: You were the CEO of Deloitte, which is one of 276 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: the largest service providers in the United States and accounting, 277 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: an audit firm, among other services, and you did that 278 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: quite well for quite a while, and all of a 279 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: sudden you're approached by the WNBA about being the commissioner. 280 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: What made you think you would want to do that 281 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: and what made them think that you could do that? 282 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting question. So it didn't seem to 283 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: make a lot of sense to a lot of people 284 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 2: unless you had come to my office at Deloitte and 285 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: saw basketballs all behind me. So I played college basketball 286 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: for now Naysmith Hall of Fame coach Muffett mcgahol, who 287 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 2: went on too great success at Notre Dame. I went 288 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: to Little Lehigh University and my father was actually drafted 289 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 2: into the NBA in nineteen fifty seven by the Detroit Pistons. 290 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: So we had a lot of basketball DNA in the family. 291 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: And so when I was my term was ending at Deloitt, 292 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: I really said, you know, what do I want to 293 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: do next? I want to do something different, something with 294 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: the broad women's leadership platform and something I had a 295 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: passion for, thinking maybe it would take me to a 296 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: college or university. And then someone coach me about the 297 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: WNBA commissioner job, and I said, definitely is something different, 298 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: broad women's leadership platform and certainly a game. I have 299 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 2: a huge passion for the game. 300 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: How long had you been the CEO of Deloitte? 301 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: So I'd been at delott for over three decades, thirty 302 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: three years, and I'd been the CEO for a little 303 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: over four year terms four years. I took over a 304 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: little earlier than usual and then your terms up and 305 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: it's time to move on. And could have stayed at 306 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: Deloitte senior partner, but really wanted to do something in 307 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: kind of a second act and this was it. 308 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: And did you stay connected to sports by playing on 309 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: weekends or anything? Like that, or you didn't have time. 310 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: For that, not really raising two kids, you know, having 311 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: a career. I did coach my daughter's travel basketball team 312 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: from middle school during middle school. I stay connected that way, 313 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: but just a big fan of sports. 314 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: So now, how many years have you been the commissioner? 315 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: Five and a half so almost six now. 316 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: Any regrets about taking the job. 317 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: No regrets at all. This was a really good fit 318 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: for me personally, professionally, and just enjoy the game so much. 319 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: I could go to a game every day and it's 320 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: just been a total transformation of a league that was 321 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: just surviving five six years ago and now thriving. 322 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: So what do you do outside of the job you 323 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: have now? Are you any corporate boards or this is 324 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: what you're doing full time? 325 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: Or no? I am on corporate boards. That was one 326 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: of the things that was important to me, given my 327 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: long history at Deloyd. So I'm on the board of McDonald's. 328 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons I wanted McDonald's was not 329 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: necessarily because I love Hamburgers, although I do. I want 330 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: to be consumer brand because now I'm running a consumer 331 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: brand called the WNBA, and it's been helpful to see 332 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: their digital their consumer base their globalization and everything. And 333 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: then I'm on the board of Royalty Farmer, which is 334 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: a public company as well, and then I play. My 335 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: passion now is golf. 336 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: So I don't play golf because it's too humiliating to me. 337 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: It's a hard game. I took it up when I 338 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: became the CEO of Deloitte. So I was fifty when 339 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: I took it up. And it was because I would 340 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: be in CEO's offices and they would be talking golf 341 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: or they'd have golf decorations in their office. I'd ask 342 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: them about it. Do you play? I played a little 343 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: bit and then started playing a lot and got pretty 344 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: good at it and got invited to the at and 345 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: T Pebble Beach Pro Am and the American Express. And 346 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: now I just love being in that environment with all 347 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: my former CEO colleagues. And it's a lot of fun now, 348 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: but it isn't great. And I tell a lot of 349 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: women take up golf, you know. It's a great way 350 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: to build relationships in the corporate world. 351 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: Recently, in spring training, I went into a batting cage 352 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: and they found the picture who could throw the ball 353 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: between three and four miles an hour as slow as possible, 354 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: and I actually hit a couple of ground balls to 355 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: everybody's amazement. Do you ever go on the court and say, well, look, 356 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: I played at Lee High. I was a star there. 357 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: Let's have a little shoot around. 358 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 2: You ever do that all the time? I passed by 359 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: in the practice facilities or as I'm walking in arena 360 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: the rack of basketballs, and I'm like, and I'll usually 361 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: have heels on, so it's a little challenging, but I'll 362 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: always take a ball and shoot a few, and the players, 363 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: I think it does give you a little credit that 364 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: you played the game, not at the level they're playing at, 365 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: but playing for Muffett McGraw and Nasmith Hall of famer. 366 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 2: My dad played for Jack Ramsey, doctor Jack, who was 367 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: a Naismith Hall of Famer. So just having a little 368 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 2: bit of that basketball DNA is helpful. 369 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: In the NBA, many of the stars, now not all, 370 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: but many of the stars come from Europe or other 371 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: places outside the United States. Do you have many players 372 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: coming from outside the United States. 373 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: We've got players from Germany, Canada, Australia, France, Spain, Africa. Yeah, 374 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: so we're starting to globalize our ranks. But they're not 375 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 2: quite where the NBA has been, again the NBA being 376 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 2: fifty plus years older than US, but it's starting to increase. 377 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: And I think the US's dominance in the Olympics. The 378 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 2: women just won their eighth consecutive gold medal in basketball 379 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: in the Paris Olympics, and I think that dominance has 380 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: helped lift other programs around the world, such as France 381 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: almost the only lost by two to the US. So 382 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: a lot of these programs around the world have invested 383 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: in their grassroots and youth football such that they're getting 384 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: really good. 385 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: And today, when you were trying to get sponsors, is 386 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: it much different for the teams to get sponsored much 387 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: easier than it used to be, or the the league 388 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: negotiate sponsor deals, or each team does its own sponsor deal. 389 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 2: Both. We have national league sponsor deals, we have global deals, 390 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: and then there's local deals for teams to negotiate as 391 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: long as it doesn't block a category at the national level. 392 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: And so one of the things that's so interesting to 393 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 2: me when I came in the league, and I didn't 394 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: know this because I was off at Deloitte in a 395 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: very different industry, is that someone told me my first 396 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: day on the job that less than one percent of 397 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: all corporate partnership money spent on sports is women's sports. 398 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: And my first question David, as a good prior accountant, 399 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: was what's the denominator? Because if we were to move 400 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 2: that a couple hundred basis points, how much do we 401 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 2: have to move the numerator? And I would say we've 402 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: moved that significantly up probably to ten percent or so. 403 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: But the denominator's huge. Obviously, it's multiple, multiple tens of billion. 404 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: Women's sports are the two biggest known or best known 405 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: women's sports, I would guess in the United States in 406 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: terms of professional leagues are soccer or what was called 407 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: football outside of the United States, and basketball. Yes, is 408 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: there a third that's coming up as softball? 409 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, well certainly the WMBA. We're the longest tenured women's 410 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: professional sports league at twenty nine years now, double any 411 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: other so, and part of that's due to our big 412 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 2: brother of the NBA and everything they've done for us. 413 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 2: And then it's soccer, and then the PWHL is a 414 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: new hockey league that has emerged and they've had a 415 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: lot the hockey's had a lot of fits and starts, 416 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: has had soccer. We're blessed to have had continuity over 417 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 2: twenty nine years. But I think there's some emerging sports 418 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 2: like volleyball, but they're the problem is there's four professional 419 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: volleyball leagues, so they probably need some consolidation. 420 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: If you look back on what you achieved today, what 421 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: are you most proud of having achieved today? 422 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 2: Definitely the growth, you know, the you know, getting through 423 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 2: the pandemic. I mean if it was pretty existential for 424 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 2: us during the pandemic, we hadn't started our season yet 425 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: because remember pandemic was March when Adam Silver shut down 426 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: the sports world by shutting down the NBA play then 427 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: the NCAA's shut down. So getting through that pandemic year 428 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: I'm probably most proud of. It was like working on 429 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: an IPO for a couple of weeks. Because I had 430 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 2: just come in the league. I didn't have a lot 431 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 2: of relationships. We had to convince the players to play 432 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: that we would keep them safe. We were at a 433 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: time of racial crisis in America with the George Floyd situation. 434 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: We got thrown in the middle of the political battle 435 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: in the state of Georgia with one of our owners, 436 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: so there was so much going on in that twenty 437 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: twenty years, so I think I'm proud of the way 438 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: we emerged from that, such that just a year later, 439 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 2: in February of twenty two, we were the first women's 440 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: sports property to raise capital at scale seventy five million dollars. 441 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 2: We probably could have raised more. 442 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: What do you consider the biggest single challenge for the 443 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: WNBA going forward? 444 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: I would say, you know, we have several challenges and 445 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: several opportunities. One of our biggest challenges is certainly how 446 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: do we globalize this game. There's a lot of opportunity 447 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: outside the United States to build fandom, to build viewership, 448 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 2: to make our players global stars. We continue to be 449 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: challenged by being a women's league and therefore and a 450 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: diverse one. So therefore we continue to be challenged around 451 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: the vitriol in social media against our players and the league. 452 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: So we're working on a four prong strategy on that, 453 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: around a technology solution to help with the social media side, 454 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 2: monitoring physical safety, and mental health. So that's another challenge, 455 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: but enormous opportunity as well in the league around so 456 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: many areas. Expansion would be one of those. A lot 457 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: of capital inflows coming into the league finding places to 458 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 2: invest that. 459 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: So if somebody said to me, you have a chance 460 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: to invest in a women's NBA team, w NBA team 461 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: new One, should I take that chance or should it 462 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: to still a risky investment? 463 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 2: Now, I think as you look at our new media deal, 464 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: you look at the growth, You look at the quality 465 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 2: of the game, the strength of the brand, what it represents. 466 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: Would I wish three four years ago I had invested 467 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 2: in it, but obviously I couldn't as the commissioner. But yes, 468 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: that's why we raised that capital three four years ago. 469 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: Those people who invested in us back then were believers 470 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 2: in the future, and I think, you know, they're all 471 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 2: going to be pretty happy, So yes, I would invest. 472 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 473 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 474 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.