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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are here,

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Speaker 3: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 3: to know. Today, we are diving back through the decades.

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Speaker 3: We're exploring an historic mystery. Originally speak Behind the Curtain.

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Speaker 3: We became fascinated with a strange tale of modern Americana,

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Speaker 3: which we'll mention along the way here. For decades, it

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Speaker 3: seems an unknown individual individual jew Wolves probably would show

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Speaker 3: up at a certain cemetery in Baltimore to toast a grave.

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Speaker 3: But as we journey down that rabbit hole, we became

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Speaker 3: enamored of something else, a far stranger story, the story

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Speaker 3: about how that grave came to be in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Today's episode, which is rife with conspiracy, is about the

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Speaker 3: death of Edgar Allan Poe. Here are the facts. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how much time we need to spend

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Speaker 3: on it. But most people know Edgar Allan Poe is right,

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Speaker 3: or is it just Americans who know, Like if we

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Speaker 3: have some of listening in Australia, they know Edgar Allan

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Speaker 3: Poe is I think probably.

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Speaker 4: The broad strokes, the Raven and whatnot. Perhaps the Telltale Heart,

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Speaker 4: but maybe not the deeper cuts like the Cask of

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Speaker 4: Amontiado and what of the Red Death. Yeah, Real Moore

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Speaker 4: was always one of my favorites. That one's got a

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Speaker 4: cool twist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's why Rumorg is why he's credited with inventing

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Speaker 3: the detective genre, not the story, the idea of detectives.

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Speaker 3: He also wrote. Really there's a really creepy story about

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Speaker 3: him and Arthur Gordon pim It's a story about a

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Speaker 3: very unfortunate series of events talking cannibalism, mutiny, shipwrecks. It's

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Speaker 3: the only complete novel Poe ever wrote, and apparent I

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Speaker 3: remember reading years and years and years ago that it

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Speaker 3: had eerie similarities to a real life incident that occurred,

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Speaker 3: even unto the names. But the problem was the uh

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Speaker 3: that Poe could not have known about it when he

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Speaker 3: was writing the book. So that's spooky, that's a different story.

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Speaker 3: We do want to tell you that if you haven't

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Speaker 3: heard of Edgar Allan Poe, he's best known as sort

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Speaker 3: of a king of creepy writing. He was a poet,

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Speaker 3: he was novelist, literary critic. He wrote a lot more

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Speaker 3: than horror, but he's associated with Gothic horror most of all.

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Speaker 3: Shout out to the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror, who did

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Speaker 3: a lot for Poe's legacy when they had their send

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Speaker 3: up of the Raven or their adaptation of the Raven. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how Edgar Allan Poe would have felt

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Speaker 3: about this. If he didn't like it, he would have

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Speaker 3: thought it was par for the course, because this man

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Speaker 3: did not have a good life, not really at all.

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Speaker 4: No, definitely not, had some serious demons, which likely was

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Speaker 4: the kind of inspiration for a lot of his super creepy,

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Speaker 4: kind of nihilistic writings.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you have to imagine if you come into

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Speaker 2: the world and within the first two years of your

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Speaker 2: life your father abandons your family, and then your mother

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Speaker 2: dies and you get shipped off to go live with

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Speaker 2: somebody else. You know, you can argue like his mind

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Speaker 2: is still developing. He doesn't even have certain attachments to

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Speaker 2: mother and father at that time, but you can also

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Speaker 2: argue some of the most important attachment occurs in that

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Speaker 2: zero to two years. So it's like it just depends

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Speaker 2: the type of attachment to other humans and he wasn't

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Speaker 2: able to make those early childhood attachments.

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Speaker 3: He did have the skin to skin contact thing.

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Speaker 2: Or he got that, but then he lost it right

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Speaker 2: as soon.

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Speaker 3: As he gets Yeah, because he's born on January nineteenth,

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Speaker 3: eighteen oh nine, in Boston to traveling actors, and his

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Speaker 3: mother dies in eighteen eleven. He gets raised by a

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Speaker 3: merchant in Richmond named John Allen spelled the same way,

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Speaker 3: probably his godfather, and I like the mention of demons

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Speaker 3: because we're going to interrogate that too. And his godfather

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Speaker 3: has basically adopted him, sends him off to Scotland in England,

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Speaker 3: where he gets what's called a classical education Latin, you know,

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Speaker 3: learning Greek, reading the old philosophers, learning about art and

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Speaker 3: so on. He lives in that area from eighteen fifteen

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Speaker 3: to eighteen twenty, and then he he goes back to Richmond.

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Speaker 3: Most of his are most of his life actually is

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Speaker 3: him going back and forth from Richmond to other places.

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Speaker 3: He's at University of Virginia for not eleven months, and

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Speaker 3: then his guardian, his adoptive father, gets kind of pissed

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Speaker 3: at him because Edgar decides that he likes gambling, and

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Speaker 3: he gets really into gambling with his U of v bros.

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Speaker 3: And his dad bails him out a couple times, but

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Speaker 3: then cuts him off and says, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: keep Why am I going to keep paying for this

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Speaker 3: if you're just gambling more than you are studying? Fair point,

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Speaker 3: So he goes home to Richmond. He says, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be a family man. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: marry my childhoods sweetheart, Elmira Royster also called Sarah, I think,

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Speaker 3: only to find that she has become engaged to someone else.

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Speaker 3: Real kick in the pants. So he goes to Boston.

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Speaker 3: Boston isn't super great to him, but it is where

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Speaker 3: he publishes his first work, a collection of poems called

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Speaker 3: Tamerlane and Other Poems. Don't feel bad if you haven't

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Speaker 3: heard about it. A lot of people didn't then or now.

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Speaker 3: I haven't read it. I'm just going to confess I

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Speaker 3: have not read I may have read Tamerlane maybe, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't read the rest of.

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Speaker 4: It, and there are a lot of you know, biographical

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Speaker 4: resources to you know, dig a little deeper into this

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Speaker 4: pretty tragic existence that Edgar Allan Poe endured, so you know,

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Speaker 4: feel free to do some extra reading on your own.

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Speaker 4: He did come from, you know, to some degree, a

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Speaker 4: connected family. He had some nepotism that got him into

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Speaker 4: West Point, but maybe in some kind of early manifestations

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Speaker 4: of those demons he flunked. He you know, had a

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Speaker 4: bit of a proclivity for the drink. He bummed around

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Speaker 4: New York City a lot, which then, as you point out,

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Speaker 4: it's really something that is a good way to kind

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Speaker 4: of find yourself. Anyone should everyone should have a chance

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Speaker 4: to you know, bum around New York a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And just quickly talking about the nepotism, it was John

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Speaker 2: Allen again, his godfather that has been helping him out

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Speaker 2: his whole life. He he was Edgar Allan Poe went

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Speaker 2: into the military for a little bit and was stationed

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Speaker 2: like internally within the US during that part of his life,

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Speaker 2: and he was like, man, I need to get out

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Speaker 2: of this. Dude, send me to West Point, please like

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Speaker 2: give me and lle do anything, just give me into

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Speaker 2: west Point and you know, as soon as he gets in,

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Speaker 2: he's like.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I don't like it, so he doesn't go to

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Speaker 3: the drills or anything. He intentionally fails out. Also, the

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Speaker 3: proclivity for drink, just like the idea of having some demons,

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Speaker 3: very interesting to reference that well.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, and just add to that, that era

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Speaker 4: of his life where he was in West Point is

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Speaker 4: highly dramatized in the Netflix film Pale Blue Eye, where

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Speaker 4: a you know, kind of detective character, another troubled person

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Speaker 4: played by Christian Bale meets a young Edgar Allen Poe

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Speaker 4: and gets wrapped up in a somewhat of a murder

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Speaker 4: mystery with some occult overhows. It's not a great film,

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Speaker 4: but it's it's interesting, and the guy that plays Poe

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Speaker 4: does a pretty cool job in my opinion, that kind

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Speaker 4: of showing it. That's why that boys is a little

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Speaker 4: hard to place.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 4: It's that that that that that like old old world

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Speaker 4: Baltimore accent, it's bordering on a British accent. It's very

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Speaker 4: also reminds me of that kind of Boston accent that

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Speaker 4: what's his name, Crispin Glover does in in the episode

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Speaker 4: of of Giamo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosity. That's been

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Speaker 4: Pickman's model. I believe it's borderline distracting basically Lovecraft story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but Poe did spend quite a lot of time

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Speaker 2: as a young person as a kid growing up in England,

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Speaker 2: as we said with John Allen, So I.

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Speaker 4: Think that's just in the nature of that era, right,

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Speaker 4: Like like you know, early immigrants, I guess, are folk

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Speaker 4: that are like hearing different accents that sort of becomes

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Speaker 4: this like regional thing that is pulling a lot from

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Speaker 4: the sound of like an English accent. For sure, you're

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Speaker 4: dead on.

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Speaker 3: That Appalachia still has. You know, it's weird if you

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Speaker 3: want to hear the older accents until about the nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventies or eighties, you could go into isolated hollers and

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Speaker 3: hills of Appalachia and what people the way people spoke

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Speaker 3: would have a pretty uncanny resemblance to old English accents,

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Speaker 3: and it's a trip for people. But yeah, it's some

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Speaker 3: because he is also from Virginia, where he spends a

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Speaker 3: lot of time. He has one of those accents that

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Speaker 3: feels weirdly deep South that can be difficult to place.

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Speaker 3: He wants to be a guy of letters. He wants

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Speaker 3: to be a literary figure. He finally gets paid to

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Speaker 3: write in Baltimore. He wins fifty bucks from newspaper in

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Speaker 3: a con test he is. He gets a job in

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Speaker 3: the literary community. In eighteen thirty five, he's editing a

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Speaker 3: thing called Richmond's Southern Literary Messenger. He does marry his

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Speaker 3: cousin when she is thirteen. Her name is Virginia Clym.

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Speaker 3: They remain they're main legally married until she passes away.

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Speaker 3: But that marriage is a whole other bag of badgers.

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Speaker 3: And I've been peppering in some hints at conspiracy here,

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Speaker 3: so this is one more. As we'll see, there's evidence

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Speaker 3: that he did this not out of romantic inclination. While

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Speaker 3: his life continued to just suck terribly at all these

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Speaker 3: various points, he continually wrote a ton of stuff. And

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Speaker 3: his big moment comes January twenty ninth, just ten days

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Speaker 3: after his birthday. In eighteen forty five, he gains national

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Speaker 3: fame with the Raven. And would he attain that kind

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Speaker 3: of fame with a single word again, quoth the Raven?

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Speaker 3: Never more?

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Speaker 4: He did? He?

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Speaker 3: Actually, it's funny because he wrote a lot of people

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Speaker 3: made money off the Raven, and he was no different.

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Speaker 3: He didn't make as much money as he probably should have,

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Speaker 3: but he would talk about the Raven. He's published these

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Speaker 3: essays where he tried to portray the creation of this

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Speaker 3: poem as though it were the assembly, as though we

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Speaker 3: who were an engineer, right, And it sounds so pretentious.

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Speaker 3: I've just be honest. Sounds supertentious because there are parts

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Speaker 3: where he's talking. You could see written versions of this too,

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Speaker 3: where he's thinking. And in the spirit of great poets,

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Speaker 3: of course, I mechanically wanted a refrain, a return, and

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Speaker 3: something with a resonance sound through the pantheon of vowels.

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Speaker 3: Of course there was the O, and so I landed

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Speaker 3: on never more.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting. No, yeah, you're right, but it's really

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Speaker 2: interesting because that's the kind of thing that I would

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Speaker 2: eat up if it was somebody like teaching a class

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Speaker 2: about it, but not if it was to smell my

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Speaker 2: own farts kind of situation. And that's how I made

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Speaker 2: the Miracle of the Raven. If you don't mind, guys,

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Speaker 2: really quickly, I just want to jump back to something

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Speaker 2: we just spoke about. He won fifty dollars right for

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Speaker 2: publishing something, just to give context, because in my mind,

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Speaker 2: you think, fifty dollars, What the hell that's what he

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Speaker 2: got for winning that thing? Why is that even a

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Speaker 2: footnote in his life? If you do the inflation calculator,

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Speaker 2: fifty dollars in eighteen thirty three is worth one eight

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Speaker 2: hundred and five dollars today. So that's a nice little

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Speaker 2: prize money for some writing.

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Speaker 3: Right, fifty dollars is still a lot for a poet today.

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna point that out as a guy who

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Speaker 3: has books of poetry.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean remember y'all, we were bouncing around in

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Speaker 4: LA like in Manhattan Beach and Venice Beach area. We

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Speaker 4: saw a lot of poem kind of stands, you know,

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Speaker 4: on the street, and I don't think they were charging

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Speaker 4: fifty bucks. So that fifty it's quite a good deal.

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Speaker 3: I wonder for the public. Yeah, yeah, I wonder if

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Speaker 3: there would I mean, that's that's a fun thing to do,

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Speaker 3: but also it's probably really demanding, but it's good. It's

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Speaker 3: a good exercise. I've never personally done it. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 3: we could try it. I don't know, but we know that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we know that Poe was making a living. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: making the most fantastic living, but he did have a job.

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Speaker 3: He was getting by. On October third, eighteen forty nine,

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Speaker 3: there's a guy named Joseph W. Walker who's going to

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Speaker 3: a busy public house. A public house is a bar. Basically,

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Speaker 3: it's called Gunners Hall. It's election day for the local sheriff,

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Speaker 3: and Gunners Hall is busy because, like so many places,

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Speaker 3: it is functioning as a pop up polding place. People

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Speaker 3: are showing up there to vote, which doesn't happen in

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Speaker 3: the US anymore. Now, it's got to be like libraries

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Speaker 3: and churches, right, Can you imagine people trying to vote

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Speaker 3: at the local.

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Speaker 2: No, boy, that sounds fun.

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Speaker 4: You're foreshadowing again.

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Speaker 3: I'm for shadowing a bit, yes, sir. So what happens

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Speaker 3: when Walker arrives at Gunners.

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Speaker 2: Hall, Well, Joseph W. Walker noticed something strange, something you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't normally see. I guess you wouldn't normally see. He

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Speaker 2: saw a shoddily dressed man laying in a gutter, and

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Speaker 2: he thought to himself, oh, geez, you know, well, we

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Speaker 2: don't know what he thought, but that's that's unfortunate, right.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is the person was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: how would you put it, guys, He was in and

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Speaker 2: out of consciousness.

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Speaker 4: It was like he was calling out for somebody.

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Speaker 2: He was yeah, but but like almost as though, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to put too much spin on it,

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Speaker 2: but almost as though something is wrong with his ability to.

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Speaker 3: Move right, like eat an ether high or something, or

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe a disassociative state of some sort, or maybe

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Speaker 3: an excess of drug consumption, whether that be alcohol or opiate,

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Speaker 3: something like that. Walker is approaching Gunner's Hall and he says,

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Speaker 3: holy shit, that's Edgar Allan Poe. And this was unusual

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Speaker 3: because Poe was not supposed to be in Baltimore at all.

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Speaker 3: He had left Richmond, like left Richmond heading for Philadelphia

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Speaker 3: five days earlier, September twenty seventh, and ever since then,

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Speaker 3: nohen had any idea where he had been. So Walker

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Speaker 3: picture him shaking. Poe, is you know, my good man?

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Speaker 3: Do you know of anyone nearby who could provide assistance?

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Speaker 3: And Poe's eventually able to give him a name which

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Speaker 3: sounds so made up. Eventually Poe is able to kind

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Speaker 3: of semi incoherently Joseph fe nod Grass, who was a

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Speaker 3: local magazine editor with some medical experience.

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Speaker 4: And a fabulous last name. And Bet, I have to

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Speaker 4: point out this detail that you found in the Rouquac

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Speaker 4: counts of this, the description of his clothing as being

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Speaker 4: a stained faded only because these old timey terms give

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Speaker 4: me joy. A stained faded old bombazine coat, pantaloons of

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Speaker 4: a similar character, a pair of worn out shoes run

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Speaker 4: down at the heels at an old straw hat.

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Speaker 3: A bombazine coat is like a thick, dark material made

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Speaker 3: from wool mixed with cotton. So a picture like Victoria

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Speaker 3: Mourning clothes.

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Speaker 4: Got it almost like a pea coat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say, so, yeah, that's what

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Speaker 3: I think of too. So yeah, he's dressed weird. And

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Speaker 3: this next part sounds really strange, so we had to

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Speaker 3: look in multiple places to verify this. But this is

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Speaker 3: the era before cell phones. Guy says, hey, is there

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Speaker 3: anybody nearby who can help you? Because can't stay at

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Speaker 3: my house? Basically was the implication. Walker wrote a letter

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Speaker 3: to this guy's not Grass, asking for help. So apparently

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Speaker 3: he thought Poe had just fallen down on his heels,

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Speaker 3: you know, and become itinerant or something like that. Poe

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Speaker 3: is carted off to an area of Washington College Hospital

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Speaker 3: when there are bars on the windows. It's restricted from

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Speaker 3: the rest of the hospital. It's tougher to visit there,

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Speaker 3: and it's for people who are suffering from really messed

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Speaker 3: up situations. Maybe mental instability. Maybe it's a drunk tank,

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Speaker 3: it's any and all of the above. Poe never recovers

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Speaker 3: from this state. He's always in the state Matt just described.

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Speaker 3: He's in there for several days. He's hallucinating, He's in

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Speaker 3: and out of consciousness, and the only consistent thing, according

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Speaker 3: to his doctor at least, is that he keeps yelling

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Speaker 3: the name Reynolds, sometimes muttering it, sometimes he's shouting it.

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Speaker 3: By five am on October seventh, he raises up, screams,

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Speaker 3: and he's dead.

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Speaker 4: Geez, Yeah, that's nothing.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if Always Sonny folks named those characters after that.

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Speaker 2: He just knew.

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Speaker 3: He was so excited about the Always Sunny adaptation or

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Speaker 3: creation centuries from now. It was his greatest work, and

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Speaker 3: it was Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he he time traveled watched some episodes of Always Sunny,

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Speaker 2: and he was just thinking about Frank and Dan Dennis,

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Speaker 2: the whole time.

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Speaker 3: I did not picture them showing up, and I'm glad

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Speaker 3: they made it. It's his death certificate apparently lists the

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Speaker 3: cause of his demise as something called frenitis swelling of

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Speaker 3: the brain. Maybe, as we'll see that doctor John Joseph

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Speaker 3: Moran was not super reliable, and to this day absolutely

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Speaker 3: no one knows what the happened except maybe us. By

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Speaker 3: the end of the show, we'll see we're gonna pause

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Speaker 3: for worth more sponsor, and we'll be right back. Here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy. It's true no one. No one

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Speaker 3: really knows how he died. No knows famous, and no

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Speaker 3: one knows.

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Speaker 4: We've certainly got some some possibilities, though, as you mentioned, Ben,

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Speaker 4: this is the guy who, for all intents and purpose, no, yeah,

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Speaker 4: for every intent and every purpose, invented the detective novel.

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Speaker 4: He himself was a mystery and left a mystery for

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Speaker 4: history to unravel nearly two hundred years later. We've got

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Speaker 4: a handful of theories, some more credulous than others, but no,

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Speaker 4: like you said, been no definitive answer or proof as

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Speaker 4: to what happened. You know, a lot of what we know?

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Speaker 4: What we should first start with this, now that a

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Speaker 4: lot of the information out there about Edgar Allan Poe

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Speaker 4: is actually what you might consider libelous. You know, a

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Speaker 4: lot of this stuff was put out by detractors of

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Speaker 4: his he did. He was not one who was particularly

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Speaker 4: good at making friends. And one in particular story you

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Speaker 4: hear all the time, a less talented this that or

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Speaker 4: the other, someone who covets what someone has. A less

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Speaker 4: talented writer who used to be Poe's friend, a guy

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Speaker 4: named Rufus Wilmot. Griswold, was putting a lot of stuff

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Speaker 4: out into the world, you know, as.

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Speaker 3: A real hater man. He was a real piece of trash,

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Speaker 3: reputation destroying kind of stuff. He didn't have the he had.

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Speaker 3: I believe they originally got beefed up because he had

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Speaker 3: included the rave No He'd included a poem of pose

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Speaker 3: in one of his anthemologies. He was an anthologist, and this, this,

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Speaker 3: the whole thing sparked off when Poe published a critical response.

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Speaker 3: He that Griswold felt was talking trash about his anthology,

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Speaker 3: of which Poe is a part, and so he went

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Speaker 3: crazy far with it. He couldn't get revenge. While Poe

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Speaker 3: was alive. He would talk trash to anybody about Poe.

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Speaker 3: Walpoe was alive, and when ed Grallan Poe passed away,

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Speaker 3: this guy wrote the official obituary under a kind of

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Speaker 3: cowardly pseudonym Ludwig and it's nothing but a hit piece.

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Speaker 3: And then he claimed he kind of took advantage of

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Speaker 3: Poe's mother in law and claimed to be Poe's literary executor.

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Speaker 3: He wrote the first full biography of Poe and it

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Speaker 3: is entire. It is one of the hugest reasons people

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Speaker 3: believe that he had a kind of like a struggle

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Speaker 3: with alcohol or a struggle with drugs. It's one of

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Speaker 3: the huge reasons he did have a struggle with alcohol,

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Speaker 3: but it's very different from actual alcoholism. And then he's

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Speaker 3: the reason people believe that the guy was a huge

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Speaker 3: fan of incest. He said he was a platress. He

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Speaker 3: intimated that Poe was going to participate in the overthrow

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Speaker 3: of the United States. He was just adding in all

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Speaker 3: kinds of weird.

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Speaker 4: Well, and we know that when things like that get

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Speaker 4: out there, it's a lot harder to put that back

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Speaker 4: in the bottle, you know, put those badgers back in

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Speaker 4: the bag, or Genie back in the bottle, which ever

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Speaker 4: matter for you before, because the salacious details are often

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Speaker 4: the ones that are the most repeated. You know, and

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Speaker 4: we know Poe was a weird cat, you know, I

378
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Speaker 4: mean Rita's stuff. The truth, I mean, the work speaks

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Speaker 4: for itself. He obviously had, you know, a proclivity toward darkness,

380
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Speaker 4: so it's easy to kind of believe that he was

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Speaker 4: some sort of ether sod alcoholic pediast.

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Speaker 2: It's weird to for me, guys, Cuz well, kind of

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Speaker 2: the observation we've already made about Edgar Allan Poe like

384
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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit enjoying the smell of his own farts,

385
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Speaker 2: tiny bit just when he's talking about creating, you know,

386
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Speaker 2: the raven as we discussed earlier. That seems to be

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Speaker 2: one of the primary things that this rufous character didn't

388
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Speaker 2: like about Poe. Right, because you could go to it's

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Speaker 2: Boston Public Libraries website bp L dot org reads some

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Speaker 2: writing by Kim Reynolds another Reynolds uh, and she talks

391
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Speaker 2: about some of the intricacies there of that relationship. And

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Speaker 2: it is funny because it's like it is just two

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Speaker 2: guys who are like, oh yeah, well nah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well he doesn't seem to be have been a people

395
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Speaker 3: person necessarily, you know, so he wasn't one of like

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Speaker 3: he was one of those folks who doesn't function at

397
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Speaker 3: the top of him American society because he is a

398
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Speaker 3: genius and he's very talented, but he's not he's not

399
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Speaker 3: kissing ass, he's not networking. He doesn't tolerate kind of

400
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Speaker 3: the credit thievery that you're you're sort of supposed to

401
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: put up with in American society to advance socially right,

402
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Speaker 3: from science papers on down. So he also it's funny though,

403
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: because you're right, this seems that the pettiness was turned

404
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: up to eleven and Griswold, now that Poe cannot defend himself,

405
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Speaker 3: is just going to town and dancing on the grave.

406
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Speaker 3: I remember one of my old professors really really put

407
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Speaker 3: this in perspective when she was talking to us about

408
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Speaker 3: how Griswold took possession of Poe's papers right, which are

409
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Speaker 3: handwritten at this time, and he would literally go through

410
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Speaker 3: them to try to prove his point, Like there's a

411
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Speaker 3: there's some passage and I'm paraphrasing here where Poe is

412
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Speaker 3: writing I am marrying Virginia to save her from another

413
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: man to like keep her out of an unhappy romantic marriage,

414
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: like marriage is just a parking space he's taking. He says,

415
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Speaker 3: I do not desire her sexually, and this Griswold guy

416
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: would scratch out not and then he would published it

417
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Speaker 3: with Poe saying I do thought that thought desire her sexually.

418
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Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, because that's that's one of the big things

419
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Speaker 4: that you always hear is that he had like this

420
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Speaker 4: child bride, you know, who was the the bit of No,

421
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Speaker 4: I know he did. But what I'm saying, but what

422
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 4: I'm saying is when it's repeated, it's kind of repeated

423
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Speaker 4: in this like as if he was some sort of

424
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Speaker 4: you know, sexual predator and and and and you know,

425
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: and based on what we're what we're discussing here, that

426
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 4: wasn't necessarily that wasn't the case.

427
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Speaker 3: Well we still, I mean that's the thing too, We

428
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 3: still we still don't know because this all came out,

429
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Speaker 3: Like you said, the lurid headlines spread much more quickly, right,

430
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 3: lie is around the world twice before the truth gets

431
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 3: up in the morning, you know. So it does seem

432
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: that there are some at the very least they are

433
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: very serious questions about whether or not Poe deserved this image,

434
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: and it seems that someone defamed his character just very

435
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 3: well and very efficiently. And we have to remember that

436
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 3: when we talk about the theories surrounding his death, there's

437
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: already one layer of conspiracy at play.

438
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 4: I under sent And it didn't help that Virginia Clem

439
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 4: was his cousin and was thirteen.

440
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that didn't help. Let's okay, let's go to

441
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 3: the theory. So one of the first and for a

442
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: long time the most popular is alcohol. People said, okay,

443
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: Edgar Allan Poe drank himself to death. Oh, I read

444
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: that first biography that came out. Also, Griswold lectured on this.

445
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: He made money talking about it. So they believed what

446
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: they heard, that this guy had just drank himself into

447
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: the grave. If we go to Chris Sempsner, the curator

448
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: of the Poe Museum in Richmond for quite some time

449
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: west see he puts it this way. A lot of

450
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: the ideas that have come up over the years have

451
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: centered around the fact that Poe couldn't handle alcohol. It

452
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: had been documented apparently multiple times since me here, that

453
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 3: after a glass of wine he was staggering drunk. His

454
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: sister had the same problem. It seemed to be something hereditary.

455
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: So it wasn't like he was who is that other

456
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 3: guy John Updike level who's hound like just downing fifths

457
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 3: of vodka? Oh right, we're an audio podcast.

458
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 4: I don't know.

459
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm raising my hands as though, like this is what

460
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: people down vodka like, but it looks more like an

461
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: awkward club dance. It wasn't that he was drinking an

462
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: unusual anomalous amount. Apparently he had some genetic quirk, some

463
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: kind of allergy that made him incapable of handling alcohol,

464
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 3: so drinking any at all really knocked him on his ass.

465
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 2: It's such a weird thing to be because anybody who's

466
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: good at hiding how much they drink, and we've met

467
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: several of them over our years, he could be having

468
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: one drink in public, but that's not all he's drinking, right,

469
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 2: So it's just so tough for me when you're looking

470
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: back at history in this way that isn't documented that well,

471
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 2: the way we kind of have to just go on

472
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: faith to some degree about what we choose, the version

473
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: of events or reality that we choose to seem.

474
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: So if yeah, I mean, and that's a good point.

475
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 3: There are all these these questions that remain, but we

476
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: have to look at the problems with the theory. You know, Okay,

477
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: if we drank himself to death, could that explain how

478
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: he disappeared for five days and then showed up in

479
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: a totally different city in totally different clothes that weren't

480
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: his own, Like, I don't know how Probably those vendors last, right,

481
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: is that it could somebody drink so much that they're

482
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: gone for a week and then they're if.

483
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: You're on a train, right, or if you're trying to

484
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: get on a train and you get on a train

485
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: and now you're in a different place and now you're

486
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: trying to get somewhere else. I don't know. It could

487
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: be a that sounds like a movie plot to me.

488
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: Here's another issue. I mean, I did get drunk and

489
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: one day wake up on a landing on a plane

490
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: to Chile. So that's yeah, mistakes were made, but that

491
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: was in the course of twenty four hours. But the

492
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: other thing, now we should mention to that point we're

493
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: talking about with defamation Snodgrass, that magazine editor who finally

494
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: after a week replies to the appeal for help. Snodgrass

495
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: wasn't just a magazine editor in Baltimore. He was a

496
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 3: incredibly vocal member of the temperance movement, and he, likes

497
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: so many other people, made bank off PO dying. So

498
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: he got on the lecture circuit and he traveled around

499
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: speaking at temperance events, assuring people that alcohol led to

500
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: Poe's death because it helped his narrative. And so the

501
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: weird thing is, I think we talked about this a

502
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: little bit. In two thousand and six. Someone conducted hair

503
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: test on PO. They still had because you know, this

504
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: back in the time where it was normal and not

505
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 3: creepy to give people locks of your hair. Have you

506
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: guys ever done that? Do you ever give someone to

507
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: lock your hair? Noel's face for spotted to that.

508
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: That was great. And I remember the first time we

509
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: got a manscaped sponsorship.

510
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: No never mind.

511
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't no judgment, you know, I know people

512
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: keep it to commemorate important things, but I don't. I

513
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: just I feel anyway, this was historical hair, so maybe

514
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: it's a little different. They conducted these hair tests, and

515
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: it seems that Poe had kept it caused them to

516
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: think that Poe had kept a vow of sobriety for

517
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: some time, long enough for it to affect you know,

518
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: the levels of chemicals you will find in his hair.

519
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: Of course, this being the eighteen hundreds, As we'll see,

520
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: the level of mercury and heavy metals were much higher

521
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: for everybody, basically so that it seemed that he would

522
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 3: have been maintained sobriety up to the time of his death,

523
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 3: unless he was drugged and or forced to drink. And

524
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 3: let's go to the second theory where Noel, you alluded

525
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: to something that I think is a very plausible theory.

526
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: Actually, oh yeah, the this is something we've talked about,

527
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: I think probably on this show as well, but certainly

528
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: on Ridiculous History. The idea of election rigging. Let's just

529
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 4: call it, right, I mean, let's call it what it is.

530
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 4: Various forms of it. Stuffing ballot boxes, you know, intimidation

531
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: of voters, you know, asking people to like, forcing people

532
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 4: perhaps at gunpoint or you know, club point, I guess

533
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 4: to vote multiple times before it was you know, a

534
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 4: lot harder to commit that level of voter fraud. But

535
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: there was a practice in the nineteenth century wherein gangs

536
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 4: of folks you know, associated with a certain political campaign,

537
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: likely for pay, would round people up and ply them

538
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: with booze, like literally force them to drink right and

539
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 4: in order to kind of loosen them up a little bit,

540
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: and then have them vote vote multiple times while also

541
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: this kind of silly sounding, but it's really messed up

542
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 4: if you think about someone that's been essentially drugged and

543
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 4: then forced to wear various disguises and then going back

544
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 4: to the the ballot box, you know, under the guise

545
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 4: of a new person out of a new identity. In

546
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 4: Baltimore in particular, this was a huge problem.

547
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: Well, what did we talk about was going on at

548
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: the place where Poe was.

549
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: Found voting for the sheriff.

550
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 4: So this.

551
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: There's also the argument that Gunner's Hall in particular was

552
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 3: a hotbed of this activity, and like you said, Nolan's

553
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: super common in Baltimore. The fact that Poe was found

554
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: delirious on election day, then it starts to look like

555
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: we're making a lunchable stack of coincidence, right.

556
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I really love the fact that you point out

557
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: that something that I wasn't aware of, and I'm interested

558
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: and seeing maybe where there's some corroborating sources on this.

559
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: We know that that's a little bit tricky sometimes. For Poe,

560
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: this condition that he may have had that was hereditary,

561
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 4: potentially that would have caused him to become much more

562
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 4: intoxicated than the amount of alcohol he consumed. Might have

563
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: led one to become in a situation where, you know,

564
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 4: folks are literally forcing you under duress to drink too

565
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 4: much that could easily result in in an overdose death.

566
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, and you know we're not we're not doctors.

567
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: We do know, without disclosion too much, we do know

568
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: some people in our lives who have some sort of

569
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: alcohol allergy, you know. And thank goodness, you know nowadays

570
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: in the US, you are hopefully not going to be

571
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 3: in a situation where someone forces you to drink if

572
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: you don't want to, or force tries to force you

573
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: to do any kind of substance you don't want to do.

574
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 3: If you're in that situation, a sanctimoni says, it might

575
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 3: sound just remove yourself from it because anybody's trying to

576
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: push you in that direction there, they don't have your

577
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: best interests at heart.

578
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 4: No, No, it's a bit's a they're either after something nefarious,

579
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 4: they're trying to manipulate you, or it's just a product

580
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: of their own security and they don't want to like

581
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 4: be the only one getting messed up.

582
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: It's not for your benefit, right right and so and hey,

583
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 3: if you're afraid, if you've got fomo of missing out,

584
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: I guarantee some of the best house parties I've ever

585
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: been to are when I was the DD because when

586
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 3: I was driving folks home, that's when it all that's

587
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 3: when it all came out, some of it being puke.

588
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 3: But you know, live and learn. So this is a

589
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: pretty plausible theory, the idea that he was somehow gang

590
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: press ganged into these voting schemes which were very common

591
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: in the day, distressingly so. And there's another theory which

592
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 3: is also sadly plausible. So he's got swelling of the brain, right,

593
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 3: that's the medical diagnosis. What if someone just beat the

594
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 3: crap out of him, because he definitely, again was not

595
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: great with people. He seems like the kind of guy

596
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 3: who might chewed his mouth off to the wrong person,

597
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: could rub somebody.

598
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 4: The wrong way, even just by like being a little

599
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 4: too flowery with his pros. What is this guy talking about.

600
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 4: Let's kick his ass also, you know, even if he

601
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 4: was you know, I mean, this is really sad to

602
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 4: even think about, but these kind of roving gangs of

603
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 4: nerdy wells that would have been associated with these cooping schemes,

604
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 4: they're the kinds of folks that would just kick the

605
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 4: crap out of a homeless person that might have just

606
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 4: been passed out drunk on the street. If you remember

607
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 4: the scene in a Clockwork Orange where there's like a

608
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 4: kind of like a you know, an unhoused fellow that

609
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: Alex and his you know drugs beat the crap out

610
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 4: of just for fun.

611
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: That's real people do that, the old ultra violence. Yeah,

612
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 3: it's quite possible that he was beaten to the point

613
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 3: where he received a traumatic brain injury and died as

614
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 3: a result. That's another reason why most of the people

615
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: you know who or who have experience in marcial arts

616
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: or professional fighting will do everything they can to stay

617
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: out of a physical altercation, because it's very easy to

618
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: accidentally get someone in a situation where they hit their

619
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: head with permanent and or fatal damage. Heads are fragile, man,

620
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: So you know, to your point, somebody walking by, even

621
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: if something already happened to him, even if he got

622
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 3: cooped and he's laying there and somebody just walks by

623
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: and kicks him in the head for fun, that could

624
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: cause that brain swelling, or take a nasty fall, or

625
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 3: just slip, just had a slip and slide. Quite possible

626
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 3: because it's cold and rainy in Baltimore at this time.

627
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: This theory, the beating theory, first gets traction, and this

628
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 3: is according to Edgar Allen Poe. Society of Baltimore, which

629
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 3: collects a lot of Pope papers, first gains prominence when

630
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: another biographer named e. Oakes Smith claims in nineteen seventy

631
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: two that she has the scoop. She said, as Poe

632
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 3: was talking to some lady basically at the bar who

633
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: considered herself insulted by him, get away from me, creep,

634
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,479
Speaker 3: and that he was beaten then by a guy who

635
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: was trying to try trying to save the woman's honor

636
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 3: or something like that, and that that caused a brain fever.

637
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: There's another version where Poe runs into his buddies from

638
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: West Point from his short time at West Point where

639
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 3: he refused to do anything, and that they said, oh, man, ed,

640
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 3: it's so great to see you, bro Are you still

641
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 3: writing poems. Well, that's what's up. Hey, Come have a

642
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: drink with us, and we know how you get man crazy. Eddy,

643
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: just have a glass of champagne. And that he had

644
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: one glass of champagne and it got him fifty eight

645
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 3: sheets to the wind.

646
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 4: Went straight to his head, went straight to his.

647
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what they say, champagin right, we's straight to

648
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: his head. And then he just wandered around the streets

649
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 3: of Baltimore like a lunatic till someone robbed him and

650
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: beat him senseless. But when I see those from those

651
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 3: reports and like the you know, in the late eighteen hundreds,

652
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: there's not a ton of first hand evidence.

653
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: Right.

654
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 3: The closest we could get is the biographers saying this,

655
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 3: and we don't necessarily know who they spoke to. We

656
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 3: don't have that necessarily showing up in a ton of

657
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: other places being See, that's the case for a lot

658
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: of things we have for many years because people didn't

659
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: have the same technology to bring to bear on this.

660
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: You couldn't test for substances and hair and so on.

661
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: So people were doing the best they could, just like

662
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: detectives and detective novels, they were trying to solve the

663
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 3: crime with a minimum amount of clues, and that's why

664
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: we have a lot of theories that were popular for

665
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 3: a while that are kind of discredited now.

666
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 4: So, Ben, there was a point that you made earlier

667
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: about hair tests in two thousand and six, right, showing

668
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 4: that you know, Poe was largely sober.

669
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's the that's the argument. So the study

670
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: was funded by Alliance Atlantis, an outfit out of Toronto,

671
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: and they were producing a series called dead Man's Tails

672
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: that was going to go on the Discovery channel Discovery Health.

673
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 3: So they had legit folks out of DC test these samples,

674
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: and most of what they were finding regarded heavy metals.

675
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 3: But it appears that the hair test itself showed that yeah,

676
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 3: he wasn't He wasn't a raging boozhound either.

677
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 4: And the heavy metal thing is interesting because I believe

678
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 4: all of those levels were within limits that would not

679
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 4: have been life threatening. And we know, you know, back

680
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 4: in those days, there were heavy metals that were used

681
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 4: in manufacturing processes that were you know, kind of people

682
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 4: were just exposed to them a little more often, like

683
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 4: felts and hats and stuff like that. Yeah, that's one

684
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 4: of the mercury rather mercury being used to treat felt

685
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 4: in hats. Yeah, that's one of the theories that was

686
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: in the running for a while was heavy metal poisoning.

687
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 4: And it's kind of sad to look back, especially that

688
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 4: hair test, and realize that Po had highly elevated levels

689
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 4: with certain heavy metals.

690
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: But so did everyone else, you know, arsenic, mercury, you

691
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: name it. The thing is in mercury. In particular, PO

692
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 3: did not have the levels that would be associated with

693
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: mercury poisoning. He just had too much mercury.

694
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 4: But wasn't that a thing though, I mean, the whole

695
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 4: expression Matt as a hatter, like ye would kill you,

696
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 4: but it would maybe make you a little off right, Yes, yeah,

697
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 4: that is true, was part of part of the danger.

698
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: And then other people, you know, there were again they

699
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: were working with limited information. It's not a ding on them.

700
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: There were people who saying maybe he had carbon monoxide poisoning,

701
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 3: because that's dangerous and they used coal gas to light

702
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: things indoors. This doesn't seem likely for some pretty basic reasons. Right,

703
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 3: everybody else is in the room that nobody else is

704
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 3: outside semi conscious, Right, what was he just huffing the

705
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: lamp and see like, hey, guys, I don't really drink,

706
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 3: but let me snarf on this. I like to party.

707
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 4: I doubt it. I just have a question, like I

708
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: really did believe that, you know, that Poe was some

709
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 4: kind of opioid you know, opium addicted alcoholic. And I

710
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: understand why now it's because of a lot of these

711
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 4: accounts you know from from this Ludwig fellow. But he

712
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 4: was not at all. He didn't dabble in any kinds

713
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 4: of drugs or and then the alcohol stuff really is

714
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 4: just kind of this is the information we have.

715
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 3: Well, we have to be careful with the with our

716
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: sources too, because the Edgar Allen Poe Society of Baltimore,

717
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: which is amass many and many of these papers. If

718
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 3: I have a horse in the race, you know what

719
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 3: I mean. But according to the correspondence that we can see,

720
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: he tried laudanum under the advice of a doctor and

721
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: like a couple of like one or two isolated incidents,

722
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: and he didn't vibe with it. Apparently, I think maybe, uh,

723
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: I guess a lot of I guess it makes sense though,

724
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: because we think of writers of that time doing just

725
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 3: on the stuff right, and writing poetry especially, So I

726
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: feel like such a sucker.

727
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 4: This is really important and educational for me, and I'm

728
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: sure some listeners out there were in the same boat.

729
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 4: Thanks for digging all this stuff up.

730
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 3: Then we have to be honest, though, because we may

731
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: be falling into the grips of apola. Just oof, that

732
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 3: was a rough one, get it, iologist religious? Oh yeah,

733
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: I got now. It just sounds like a weird accent,

734
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: all right. But but yeah, so that original conspiracy distorts stuff.

735
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 3: Then another discredited thing is the flu. Poe hadn't been

736
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: feeling well, right, so he like we know, he went

737
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 3: to a doctor before he left for Richmond.

738
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, at least according to what we know about

739
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: his wife's statements at the time he was he had

740
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: the clear signs of somebody with a flu. He had

741
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: a weak pulse, right at least if when she was

742
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: feeling him and he was around her before he left.

743
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,479
Speaker 2: And also he had a fever. I mean that's pretty clear.

744
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: If you're super warm to the touch, you might just

745
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: needed more count you know, that's it's fever. Yeah, that

746
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: is it. But then you're traveling. Everybody knows when you've

747
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: got the flu. You need to get in bed asap.

748
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: That's it. Well, I mean, not only because you're gonna

749
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: get every body else sick. You gi everybody else the flu.

750
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: Come on, now, you can't want to get traveling in

751
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: the rain.

752
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 5: You picture Poe as this weedy, pale, little sickly man.

753
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 5: That's how he's depicted, you know, in illustrations, and you know,

754
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 5: as just being him.

755
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 4: He was, you know, a sort of prone to ill health,

756
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 4: wasn't he isn't?

757
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 3: That?

758
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 4: Is that not true either? I just I don't know

759
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 4: what to believe.

760
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, you got to look at the de gerotype.

761
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: You gotta look at the to gerotypes. It's all about

762
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: the de guerotypes. What we need is a law and

763
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 3: order spin off. Let's get some copaganda set in the

764
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds and have them investigate these weird deaths. We

765
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: also need to take an ad break.

766
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 2: I think, Oh okay, but well, let's say at least

767
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,959
Speaker 2: the doctor told him, hey, maybe don't travel with the flu.

768
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 4: Pal.

769
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I was laughing too, because I thought

770
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: you said, you know what you gotta do. I thought

771
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 3: you were about to say, you know what you got

772
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: to do when you get get the flu? Gott to

773
00:45:59,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: hop on the train.

774
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: Yeahda hit the road the shinto Wellsville, baby.

775
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: And write it till two am in the morning when

776
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 2: you riot.

777
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, I don't want anything from the sandwich cart,

778
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: but please come closer. I'd like to cough on it, but.

779
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: The doctor told him not to go. He could have

780
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: gotten super sick from that travel, from the weather, from

781
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: the temperatures out there, and all the other things. Could

782
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: have caught something else on top of the flu while

783
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: traveling with all those people. That could be it. Right,

784
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: you can get hallucinations from that stuff, being in that

785
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: fugue state we talked about.

786
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 4: No question. You can get hallucinations from just being dehydrated,

787
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 4: you know, I mean no question, Like I mean, you

788
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 4: hear about people being in the desert or whatever and

789
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 4: being dehydrated and sun worn and then having like all

790
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 4: kinds of visions all of that. So there's no question

791
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 4: there's certain things that could cause you to fit to

792
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 4: actually see things that aren't there.

793
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well, let's call that theory, though, the flu theory

794
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 2: a bit of a long shot, and take a look

795
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: at a few other things. After a word from our sponsors.

796
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 4: And we're back. We've mentioned the idea of swelling of

797
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 4: the brain and the unfortunate case of the passing the

798
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 4: demise of Ed Grallan Poe. We have talked about how

799
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: that could have been the result of him receiving a

800
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 4: vicious beating. But what if it wasn't a beating or

801
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 4: a drugging, you know, or you know, a sensitive system

802
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 4: reacting poorly to too much alcohol. What if it was

803
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: something else, a more sinister laying in wait.

804
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 3: Well, a ticking time bomb of cancer, you know. We

805
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: know that sometime before his final trip, another physician had

806
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 3: diagnosed him at one point with quote lesions on the brain.

807
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: Of course, this is before the days of MRI and

808
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 3: cat scans and so on, so they can't see into

809
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: the brain. And I guess unless they conducted trepidation, right,

810
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: which is drilling the little hole, little Heidi hole in

811
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: the back, people can survive it. But he did not

812
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 3: have that operation. There's a weird thing that happens. Like

813
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 3: a lot of writers, he becomes famous after his death.

814
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 3: He's posthumously appreciated. Fast forward twenty six years after he's buried,

815
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: the town says, we decided that we like him. We

816
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: are going to put a statue of him in the graveyard,

817
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 3: and we're gonna also exhume his remains and move them

818
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 3: closer because he was buried in a not great part

819
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: of the graveyard.

820
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 4: You know, now that he's not around all the time,

821
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 4: weirding up the joint, you know, we'll remember him fondly.

822
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 4: Little revisionist history there.

823
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, now that we just have to deal with the

824
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 3: idea of him instead of the actual person. He's aces.

825
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: So the problem is Decay is a brutal, constant beast,

826
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: So his coffin's very fragile. As people are trying to

827
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 3: move it. The story goes, it fell apart. It coffin flopped.

828
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 4: God, I'm trying to say coffin flops on a show, Ben, They're.

829
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 3: Trying to say coffin flops, not a show. It's just

830
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: body after body.

831
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: They don't got no souls.

832
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 4: They don't busting through it.

833
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 3: Sorry, we got to keep it all.

834
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 4: Can't wait for the.

835
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: So this is pretty soon now, right, it's like the

836
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 3: season threes on the way. So there's definitely a coffin

837
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 3: flop situation. According to this story, pose corpse is you know,

838
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: not going to survive twenty eight plus years decay very well,

839
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: and a worker notices one weird thing in his skull.

840
00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: He says, there's a mass rolling inside. Newspaper papers claimed

841
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 3: the clump was pose brain.

842
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 4: That's rude.

843
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 3: It was shriveled but still around after three decades in

844
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 3: the dirt.

845
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think so.

846
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it decay the same as.

847
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 4: Squish to go as?

848
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, the human brain is one of the first components

849
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 3: to rot completely after.

850
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,479
Speaker 2: Death because it's soft and wet, right, I mean those

851
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: those parts go away quick.

852
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So there's what newspaper of note was printing this.

853
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 4: That's what I want to.

854
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: Know, right, the brain pan quarterly fake news, I say,

855
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 3: fake news. Agreed, so say we all.

856
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: But something was found right inside his skull.

857
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 3: We don't have it, We don't know. It would change

858
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: the conversation if that someone had physical possession of that mass.

859
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 3: But apparently this worker didn't have the juice or the

860
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: inclination to say, hang on before we honor this great ride,

861
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: or let me get my fingers up of this cranium.

862
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: I feel like I can dig something out of here, respectfully, guys, respectfully?

863
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 4: Is the idea that it would maybe, Okay, we know

864
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: it wasn't this shriveled brain. But like a tumor is

865
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 4: also made of tissue. It's just malignant tissue that grows

866
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: out of control. It's not like special or you know,

867
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 4: lasts longer or something.

868
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 3: Right, right, Yeah, So this is where a novelist named

869
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 3: Matthew Pearl comes into play. Matthew Pearl is writing a

870
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 3: novel about Poe. He gets really interested in this aspect

871
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 3: and he speaks to a pathologists. They can't remember the name,

872
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 3: but he speaks to this pathologist and he says, well,

873
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: we know this thing in the skull couldn't have been

874
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: a brain thirty years later, but could it be a tumor?

875
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 3: And the pathologist said, yeah, because under the right circumstances,

876
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 3: tumors can calcify to hard masses.

877
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 4: Interesting, I didn't know that. Okay, there you go.

878
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 3: So that could explain the IRA behavior. That could explain

879
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 3: some of the difficulties with cognition. But again, it's a

880
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 3: it takes a bridge of assumptions to reach that, right.

881
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's like the movie Phenomenon, but in the

882
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: opposite direction. Instead of its miracles, he's writing poetry.

883
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 3: Like Phenomenon.

884
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 4: No, No, not to be confused. There's another movie with

885
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: the similar title also like Phenomenon and Powder came out

886
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 4: at the same time, and they were very similar plots,

887
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 4: but one of them was written by a pedophile. John

888
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 4: has John Travolta in it. Oh but yeah, the Powder

889
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 4: guy who also did the Jeeper Screepers movies. His name

890
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 4: is Escaping Me Convicted. That probably can't have nice things.

891
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 3: But John travolt also has a litt new sexual assaulta.

892
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 4: Just don't don't don't mean your heroes if anyway. My

893
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: question to you Ben, though, is, or to both of

894
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 4: you Fellaws, is can't brain lesions form over time and

895
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 4: even perhaps be responsible for weird directions and creativity?

896
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 3: It can, It can happen, but it's a lot like

897
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: it's like winning a lottery because you can. You can

898
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 3: read cases where someone has received an injury and like

899
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: the most extreme comic book version of it would be

900
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 3: called acquired savant syndrome. If you've heard of that, someone

901
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: has really profound injury and all of a sudden they

902
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 3: emerge from this traumatic brain injury or this illness with

903
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 3: a weird newfound skill like they now I am an

904
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: amazing painter, or now holy crap I can play the

905
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 3: glockenspiel like nobody's business. Now it is rare. I guess

906
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: we should say those people still don't necessarily have the

907
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 3: best lives because it traumatic range injury comes with a

908
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: lot of you know, trauma on the side. But it's

909
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 3: possible then with that, I like that line of thought.

910
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: It's possible that maybe there was some kind of brain

911
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 3: leision driving his obsession with letters that developed over time. Maybe,

912
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 3: but just asking questions, it's a great question.

913
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 4: This is a conjectury type of episode. Which speaking of that,

914
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,959
Speaker 4: let's move on to another option. That is certainly something

915
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 4: that can cause erratic behavior and deteriorating physical health.

916
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 3: Uh.

917
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 4: You guys ever had a rabies shot? Do you get

918
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 4: it in advance or do you get it like after

919
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 4: you've maybe been bitten? I forget you get it in advance.

920
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 4: I think it's a it's it's an inoculation, right, vaccine. Yeah,

921
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 4: now that's Rebellum's is Rabi's like a it's an early one,

922
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 4: you get I think as we obviously can can cure

923
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 4: it with the vaccine, but back in these days, it

924
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 4: was maybe something that would be a little more nefarious,

925
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 4: something people could potentially die from because lacks of lack

926
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 4: of medical science, you know, having a way to cure it.

927
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: Well, the symptoms of rabies were certainly close, at least

928
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: in resemblance to what Edgar Allan Poe was going through

929
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: or reported to be going through just before he died.

930
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and here here is another tale. This is

931
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 3: pretty fascinating. So it's nineteen ninety six. There's this cardiologist

932
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 3: in Maryland named R. Michael Benitez, and Benitez goes to

933
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 3: a conference where he and fellow pathologists play some reindeer

934
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,879
Speaker 3: games pathology. The games that pathologists play, aside from sound

935
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 3: like an off Broadway production, is a it's really interesting.

936
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 3: They're each give they're given a mystery, and the mystery

937
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 3: is a list of symptoms from an anonymous patient with

938
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 3: a pseudonym often initials, and then based on the symptoms

939
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: and some contemporary reports, these pathologists attempt to make a diagnosis.

940
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 3: So Doc Benitez reads about this mystery patient and he's

941
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 3: ticking the boxes off in his head and he goes,

942
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: I'm certain there's an example of rabies. Imagine his surprise

943
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 3: when he learns his anonymous patient ep is Edgar Allan Poe.

944
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 3: His diagnosis is published in the September nineteen ninety six

945
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 3: issue of the Maryland Medical Journal, and it still has

946
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 3: some problems though it's still not solving it, like where

947
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 3: are all the wild animals? Why was it? Why didn't

948
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 3: the medical examiner see a bite on Poe?

949
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 4: That's the Actually I could imagine there. It would have

950
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 4: been maybe street dogs, you know, like I mean, that

951
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 4: may have been rabbid, but I just just I kind

952
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 4: of was just guestimating. But the rabies vaccine was not

953
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 4: successfully created until eighteen eighty five, so we're just before

954
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 4: that and lose Louis Pasteur and his colleagues that actually

955
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 4: used rabbit spinal cord suspensions that contained inactivated rabies into

956
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 4: a nine year old patient, Joseph Meister. So this definitely

957
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: would have been, you know, an issue.

958
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 3: And there's no DNA evidence that the doctor could use.

959
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 3: The doctor's very fair about this. He also says there's

960
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: no evidence of hydrophobia, which is that when people have rabies,

961
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: especially when you're when you're in the fully a yeah

962
00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: it fell fully developed stages of it, you are afraid

963
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 3: to drink water. But Poe was drinking water up until

964
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 3: his death, at least if you can believe his original

965
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: doctor hmm, yeah, yeah. But the reason fans of Poe

966
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: like this theory is because it is the first time

967
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 3: a modern physician was able to look at this case

968
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: without implicit assumptions based on Poe's identity and all the

969
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 3: other public reputation stuff. So we have one at least

970
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 3: one guy looked at it without knowing who who the

971
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 3: story was about. Based on that, they said, probably rabies.

972
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,439
Speaker 3: That's not the most fun one, the most fun when

973
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: for a lot of people the crowd today is going

974
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: to be murdered, murdered most fail I.

975
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 4: Mean, even the rabies one fits the actually, I mean

976
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 4: I could see a lot of these having a bit

977
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 4: of an allure, you know, to Poe fans, just because

978
00:58:55,240 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 4: it's like the guy's writing is severely dark and damaged,

979
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 4: you know, and it's like bordering on the obsessive psychotic,

980
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 4: and like. Of course, writers don't actually have to live

981
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: the lives that they write about or have their minds

982
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 4: don't necessarily exist in a constant state of darkness, you know.

983
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 4: It's like a thing, a switch you can flip like

984
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 4: you're writing pretend, you know, but there's a reputation, a

985
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 4: lot of it. As we've discovered, it's sort of falsely,

986
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 4: you know, put out there of Poe being this kind

987
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 4: of damaged, you know, looney to So a lot of

988
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 4: this stuff really kind of tracks. But murder would obviously

989
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 4: be the cherry on top.

990
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 2: You know.

991
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 4: Guy wrote about murder all the time, people getting killed

992
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 4: in elaborate and punitive ways.

993
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 3: Oh and I've got to correct myself. This is the

994
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 3: Sarah story, not the I was confused when I was

995
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 3: thinking about that girl he wanted to marry, who was

996
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 3: already engaged when he came back to Richmond. This story

997
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 3: comes from an all Their named John, evangelist Walsh. In

998
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 3: two thousand, John writes a book called Midnight Dreary The

999
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 3: Mysterious Death of Edgar Allan Poe, and proposes that Poe

1000
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 3: was murdered because his first wife died in eighteen forty

1001
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: seven and he wanted to he became engaged to the

1002
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 3: lady would have been his second wife, her name Sarah

1003
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 3: Elmira Shelton, and that her three brothers were very much

1004
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 3: against it and threatened him. And the theory is they waylaid

1005
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: him in Philly, you know, what you think about this.

1006
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: They waylaid him in Philly. They scared him so much

1007
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 3: that he disguised himself apparently by wearing different clothes and

1008
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 3: hid out for a week before he was heading back

1009
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: to Mary Shelton and the brothers found him in Baltimore.

1010
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: They beat him, they forced him to drink, knowing of

1011
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 3: his allergy to the stuff, and they left him for dead.

1012
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 3: This theory is generally considered more thought experiment because that's

1013
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: a crappy disguise, right, That's like Clark Kent level disguise.

1014
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 3: You with the straw hat. Have you seen a big

1015
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 3: headed man who looks like he's aiming to marry our sister?

1016
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,439
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah? Well, look, I just want to put

1017
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: this out. I think I could understand why maybe the

1018
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: family of miss Royster Shelton did Sarah person why they

1019
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: might be upset because similar to his thirteen year old cousin,

1020
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 2: apparently Poet started hanging out with Sarah when she was fifteen,

1021
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 2: which is a little older, and especially at that time,

1022
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 2: like depending on where you were, it was a little

1023
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 2: more accepted to be around fifteen years old to begin

1024
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 2: at courtship, right, But still, maybe it didn't go, well,

1025
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 2: that was back when he was going to the University

1026
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 2: of Virginia. That's when he met Sarah when she was

1027
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 2: much younger. And apparently the father of Sarah is the

1028
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: reason why they weren't together anymore. So he was already

1029
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 2: like I don't like this Poe character.

1030
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 3: No, sorry, they were engaged in two different occasions, right.

1031
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, So I can imagine why the family is like, no,

1032
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: not this guy, not this guy.

1033
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 3: M And he died just ten days before the wedding date.

1034
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 3: And and I think at that point Sarah Elmira Royster Shelton, Now,

1035
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,479
Speaker 3: I think at that point her husband had died.

1036
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was already widowed, and she had always a

1037
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 2: bit of money. So I don't know, man, they're like, oh,

1038
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: Poe's trying to come in and get our money now,

1039
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 2: because it's our family's money now. In some respects, that's.

1040
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: Definitely have motive. I think that's a really good point. Yeah,

1041
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 3: they definitely have motive. But all we can say is

1042
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 3: that none of the brother Shelton or the Royster clan

1043
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 3: were ever prosecuted for a crime. They were never questioned,

1044
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 3: there were certainly never rested. So again, almost two hundred

1045
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 3: years later, the question remains, will the case ever be solved? Folks,

1046
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 3: here's the kicker. Probably not BRep. It's not looking good.

1047
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: There's just too many mysterious aspects, too many missing pieces.

1048
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 3: The medical records disappeared, if they ever really existed. The

1049
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 3: doctor responsible for determining the cause of death changed this

1050
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 3: story multiple times over the years. John Joseph Moran n

1051
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 3: was the last person to hang out with Poe as

1052
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 3: far as we know. He also made a buck talking

1053
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: about it for the rest of his life, and his

1054
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 3: story evolved multiple times over the years. The one thing

1055
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 3: that stood out to me a lot was, okay, changes

1056
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 3: dates which you could get. You know, as you wax

1057
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,959
Speaker 3: on in the years, you might remember things. It gets

1058
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 3: a little hazy, you know, was that October nine through

1059
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 3: October tenth? Totally understand that. Sometimes he said Poe arrived

1060
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 3: at the hospital on October third at five, sometimes the

1061
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 3: next day at nine pm. And then sometimes he said

1062
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 3: he arrived at October seventh at ten o'clock in the afternoon.

1063
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 3: Whatever the hell that means ten o'clock.

1064
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 2: In the afternoon. I arrived places at that time all

1065
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 2: the time.

1066
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 3: Wait, what do he lived Sous's world. What kind of

1067
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 3: magic Harry Potter stuff is this? But yeah, ten o'clock

1068
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: in the afternoon. I mean maybe I'm just maybe we

1069
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 3: just don't know, you know, the the idioms of the

1070
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: day or whatever.

1071
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: If it was afternoon and it was ten o'clock, that

1072
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: would be ten pm.

1073
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 3: You're right, You're right, I'm being unfair.

1074
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: I'm confused by two man. I'm just like, guy, you're.

1075
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 3: Right, though, it's technically it's afternoon.

1076
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: It is afternoon.

1077
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 3: He just had he just had one of those weird

1078
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 3: technically the truth kind of understandings of the world. It

1079
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 3: was it's eleven fifty eight pm in the afternoon. Yeah,

1080
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 3: so okay, anyway he did this. Doctor did seem to

1081
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:13,439
Speaker 3: keep changing, rewriting the story up until he himself died

1082
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: in eighteen eighty five. He is sixty five years old.

1083
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 3: At this point, no one can find ed Grollan Poe's

1084
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 3: death certificate. We just have accounts about what it's said,

1085
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 3: and most people, most of us are still laboring under

1086
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 3: the poison spread by that old enemy, Wilma Griswold, who

1087
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 3: conspired against him so effectively. This is a conspiracy that worked.

1088
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 3: Unless you are a person who has insider information, unless

1089
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 3: you're maybe that mysterious Poe Toaster. Let's end it there.

1090
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 3: What is the Poe toaster that's set us on this

1091
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 3: weird journey.

1092
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 4: It's a novelty toaster in the shape of a ground

1093
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 4: Po's head.

1094
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, That's all you need to know. No,

1095
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: it's a mysterious group of people that toast the grave

1096
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: of Edgar Allan Poe, and nobody really knows who they are, right, Yeah,

1097
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 2: they used to.

1098
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 3: They stopped recently, I think, but they would go up

1099
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 3: the yeah would They would show up an anniversary and

1100
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:15,479
Speaker 3: they would toast to him. And generally the people who

1101
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 3: watched this happen were very respectful. It just became a

1102
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 3: cool tradition. I think only a few times did someone

1103
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 3: try to figure out the identity of this person. It

1104
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 3: appeared to be a male, at least the first one.

1105
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 3: They might have passed it down to their children. But

1106
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 3: if you're the po toaster, let us know. Let us

1107
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 3: know also what you think about these theories. It really

1108
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 3: is unsolved. Maybe there's a piece of evidence out there

1109
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 3: that can prove which of these conspiracies is true. And

1110
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 3: then yeah, let us know your favorite creepy pofacts.

1111
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 4: Yes please, oh yes, by all means let us know.

1112
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 4: You can find us on the internet where we are

1113
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,439
Speaker 4: conspiracy stuff on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. Or we also

1114
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 4: have our hears where it gets Crazy, Facebook group on

1115
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok where conspiracy stuff show.

1116
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 2: If you'd like to give us a call, our number

1117
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 2: is one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system.

1118
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: When you call in, please leave your name in a

1119
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: cool nickname kind of fashion, not your real name. You've

1120
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: got three minutes say whatever you'd like. If you'd like

1121
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: to say more than that, why not instead send us

1122
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.

1123
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1124
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1125
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1126
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.