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Speaker 1: Golf. Is that they anything in golf that doesn't change,

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Speaker 1: anything that changes the best in playing? Does this man

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Speaker 1: a one time winner on the PGA Tour? The point, Alan,

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Speaker 1: is he didn't go Hollywood. You Need a Fourth? Well,

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Speaker 1: before we get started with this episode, I will say

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Speaker 1: that our guest is a golf lover who's very adept

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Speaker 1: with musical instrument And have you ever seen those videos

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Speaker 1: of Echo ambassador Eric van Ruin playing the guitar like

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Speaker 1: he can actually shred? Yeah, he's a neat, stylish guy

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Speaker 1: we've had around him for a while. Or having such

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Speaker 1: a beautiful golf swing and be able to play a

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Speaker 1: guitar like that, I'm deeply jealous. And somehow no one

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Speaker 1: can make joggers the cool, but Eric van Ruin does,

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Speaker 1: partly because he's got the right shoes. Echo Footwear, who's

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Speaker 1: a sponsor of this podcast. We love Echo, we love music.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to this Need a Fourth Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to an other Need a Fourth podcast. This Alan

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Speaker 1: Schipnik my co hosts Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger. We

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Speaker 1: take turns surprising each other with a mystery guest. Today,

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Speaker 1: Michael has provided said person do you want to Dr Bamberger?

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Speaker 1: Do you wanna give us a few hints about who

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Speaker 1: they might be? Sure? Uh, today's guest is one of

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Speaker 1: the wittiest and most intelligent people I know. He has

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Speaker 1: as Jeff has traveled the world playing golf and carrying

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Speaker 1: a lug of clubs. This guy has traveled the world

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Speaker 1: with the tools of his straight But he only I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer, but he only travels, probably with

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Speaker 1: about three or four of his instruments. He has logged.

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Speaker 1: He's he's not a likely candidate. That would be an understandment.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say he's not a likely cannic. Get

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Speaker 1: to every get in the world golf all of him,

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Speaker 1: I would say that ship has sailed. But he is

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Speaker 1: in the rock and roll He is in the rock

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Speaker 1: and roll Hall of Fame. Um, Alan, you may already know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I have an advantage because I know you have habits

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Speaker 1: and your friendships. Uh. If his initials beginning with the

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Speaker 1: T like as in bow, no interest, no interesting, good thought,

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Speaker 1: very good thought, and perhaps for for another day, he shared,

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Speaker 1: now this will be this will be tough for Jeff

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Speaker 1: and easy brown. He shares the initials with an iconic

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Speaker 1: New York Yankee, even though his own baseball tastes run

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Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Braves forming the Milwaukee Braves, but his

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Speaker 1: affection for them, I think is very much sure to

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Speaker 1: say of that he grew up in, which is Georgia

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Speaker 1: is just getting too easy for you? Is this with

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Speaker 1: that baseball player being Mickey Mantle? The baseball player would

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Speaker 1: be Mickey Mantle? I think that that makes her history

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Speaker 1: guest perhaps Mike Mills, but I'd be correct, Yes, our guestory,

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Speaker 1: our mr guests Mr Mike Mills. Uh often from here

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Speaker 1: he is Hey, I love it, Hey guys. Uh. For

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Speaker 1: those who don't know, and most too, Mike Mills is

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Speaker 1: the bassist for for R E. M and Uh a

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Speaker 1: great friend to too many of us who hang around

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Speaker 1: golf courses and Mike and I have logged a lot

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Speaker 1: of time at Augusta National and on various golf courses.

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Speaker 1: And you can see Mike at the Athens Country Club, Uh,

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Speaker 1: applying his other trades. It's sometimes in the woods and Uh, anyway, Mike,

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Speaker 1: it's a great, great pleasure to have you here. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Alan have you met Michael along the way? No, surprisingly not,

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Speaker 1: I know you guys have been friends forever and and

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Speaker 1: Mike is a is an enthusiast. But h or do

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Speaker 1: we have a quick conversation at Augusta once? It's entirely

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Speaker 1: possible that would have be have been on the courser

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Speaker 1: at t Bones, which is my unofficial home. Yeah they're

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Speaker 1: in Augusta. Yeah that, but never spent any quality time,

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Speaker 1: much to my chagrin. But your your legend proceeds you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this, This is this is great. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's still time we can hang at the next master's

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Speaker 1: and uh, and Mike, you wouldn't know this, but Jeff

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Speaker 1: Jeff is in a hotel. Jeff Ogilvy, an assistant captain

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Speaker 1: on the President's Cup team this year, is in a

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Speaker 1: hotel room. Uh in Tribeca, where I know you've blogged

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Speaker 1: a lot of time. Uh, Mike, Mike is a student

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Speaker 1: of the better hotels. Like he will flat out say

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Speaker 1: to me, this is way above your pay grade. You're

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Speaker 1: never sniffing such and such a hotel. I'm okay with that.

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Speaker 1: But so, Mike, you wouldn't know this, But but Jeff

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Speaker 1: Jeff often does this from home. And there are no

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Speaker 1: there are no nods to his long and distinguished profession

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Speaker 1: in golf. Um, but you do see a an acoustic

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Speaker 1: guitar standing in the corner um of his office, It's

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Speaker 1: actually less. It's actually a Gibson less pole Marchael whoa

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Speaker 1: excellent even better. It looks better than it sounds when

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Speaker 1: I play it. There's fine up there. I'm curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: for for for for Jeff and Mike, is there is

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Speaker 1: a rivalry between the bassist and the guitarist you tube,

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Speaker 1: does one look down upon the other or what? What?

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Speaker 1: What is that dynamic? Like? Well, only a friendly sort

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Speaker 1: of rivalry. I mean we make fun of their little

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Speaker 1: bitty strings. Uh, it's like anybody can play those tiny

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Speaker 1: little things. Takes a man to play big fat bass strings.

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Speaker 1: But no, I mean I love to play guitar too.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, a band of all bass players

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Speaker 1: would be pretty boring. Jeff, Who's who's the most famous

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Speaker 1: musician You've ever jammed with? I haven't. I've jammed with

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Speaker 1: them all on YouTube on my but um, I haven't

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Speaker 1: never jamming. I'm a very private guitarist. I'll be um,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have a We're gonna have a game of

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Speaker 1: I'd be a probably a twelve handicapped guitar was probably

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Speaker 1: so Mark, what's your golf handicap? We could compare off skills. Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's let's say you're probably a better guitar player than

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Speaker 1: I am a golfer. I'm currently riding about a sixteen

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Speaker 1: seven sixteen seven index. I I just I just don't play,

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Speaker 1: uh consistently enough to keep it down. I got down

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Speaker 1: to fourteen at one point when I was actually hitting it.

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Speaker 1: But um, I'm just you know, I just don't have

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Speaker 1: the time to get out there. If I got out

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Speaker 1: there two or three times a week, I could probably

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Speaker 1: get it back to a fourteen. But it's it's hard

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Speaker 1: to find the time. Mike, what was your first love

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Speaker 1: baseball or golf? And how did you find your way

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Speaker 1: to golf? Uh? Well, baseball, it was my love ever

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Speaker 1: since I was, you know, kid listening to Chipe. I

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Speaker 1: put the little transistor radio under my pillow at night

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Speaker 1: and listened to the Braves, you know, especially when they're

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Speaker 1: you know, they're in the West Division. So I was

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Speaker 1: listening to a lot of West Coast games, which kept

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Speaker 1: me up really late, which probably explains why it was

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Speaker 1: so easy to be a musician because I'm just used

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Speaker 1: to be an up late anyway, Um, golf I got

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Speaker 1: my dad got me into golf, and I was about fourteen.

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Speaker 1: I played for a couple of years and I really

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Speaker 1: loved it. But then, you know, once I went to

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Speaker 1: at to school and got on the road, there was

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Speaker 1: neither time nor money uh to play golf unfortunately. And

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Speaker 1: then later on in the in the musical career, we

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Speaker 1: we managed to have some money and find some time

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Speaker 1: and I was able to play some really cool places

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Speaker 1: on tour. Was there a period where where being a

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Speaker 1: musician who loved golf was not cool? And did did

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Speaker 1: did that that public opinion shift at all? I get uh?

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Speaker 1: And how did your bandmates take your your obsession? Um? Well,

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Speaker 1: my manager and Bill Berry the drummer, and our manager

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Speaker 1: Burtish down so they both played, so we always had uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't a complete ostracization. Ostracization for wanting

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Speaker 1: to play golf. You know, golf. Um, you know, back

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Speaker 1: in the back in the eighties when I was playing it,

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Speaker 1: golf had a lot of heavy baggage. It was a

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Speaker 1: very at the time, it was a very elitist sport. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It certainly no longer is, which is great, but it

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Speaker 1: was at the time, and and you got it. And

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Speaker 1: the clothes were just bad. I mean they were bad.

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Speaker 1: There's just no getting around it. The sands of belt pants.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know it was it was all the rage

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Speaker 1: but that but anyway, um so I didn't care. I

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Speaker 1: played it. I loved it. There's just something so satisfying

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Speaker 1: about making well when it happens, making a ball ago

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Speaker 1: where you wanted to go and uh and I loved

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Speaker 1: it and and there are just so many aspects of

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Speaker 1: the game that I really enjoyed. But but and it's

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Speaker 1: come so far since then. I mean, now you know,

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Speaker 1: half the people I know that are musicians are also golfers.

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Speaker 1: There's no stigma to it anymore. And people have found

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Speaker 1: out how meditative it can be if you don't let

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Speaker 1: your temper run away with you. Well said. I should

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Speaker 1: note that Mike is newly and happily married before I

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Speaker 1: tell the following story, because I think it relates to Macrohanish.

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Speaker 1: But Mike and I have a great, great mutual friend,

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Speaker 1: Burt of Sounds, through whom we met uh In about

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Speaker 1: would be would be my guess, uh Alan wants into story.

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Speaker 1: I think he was writing about Macrohanish and he was

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Speaker 1: writing about the rough and Burt picked up on this

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Speaker 1: line years ago. Forever can we get an edit? No? No, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: bheaud He told me, I fucking knew it. I knew it.

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Speaker 1: Burnis don't know. It's not we We didn't speak for it.

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Speaker 1: Burnis told me this story today and he said, make

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Speaker 1: sure you mentioned it to Allen. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it'll just come up on its own, So go ahead, Michael,

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Speaker 1: you did that. What was was it Macaronis and Burtis

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Speaker 1: is telling? Or did that come up? You didn't mention

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Speaker 1: the course Alan? Is it Macaronish? Yes? He compared. Alan

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Speaker 1: compared the rough at Macahonish too. I think the thick

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Speaker 1: hair of a supermodel, a wild and Willie supermodel. The

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Speaker 1: next day, I mean to which to which burgers, to

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Speaker 1: which Burnis responded like he would know my my preamble,

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Speaker 1: my preamble to all this is. And I'm not and

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Speaker 1: I'm not asking Mike. Mike, I can either confirm nor

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Speaker 1: deny that, but I can certainly I can certainly imagine it.

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Speaker 1: That's part of it. That's part of being a writer,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to exact places they can't go otherwise.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a service there. That's what songs are

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Speaker 1: for and what and what articles and books are for. Absolutely. Jeff,

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Speaker 1: of course has been doing this with with alan to

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Speaker 1: Made for a number of months now. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that comes out when you hear Jeff talked

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Speaker 1: about about golf and professional golf and tournament golf and

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Speaker 1: trying to beat the course and trying to beat the

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Speaker 1: other guy is that it is an odd blend of

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Speaker 1: science and art, which of course it is. And of

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Speaker 1: course being in a band like you are, in mastering

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Speaker 1: an instrument as you have that too, is it's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of science to the playing of a musical instrument,

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Speaker 1: and of course there's a lot of art too. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you've ever given any thought to comparing.

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Speaker 1: Is there some reason why so many musicians are drawn

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Speaker 1: to golf and so many golfers are drawn to music.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there's some connection there between that weird

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Speaker 1: blend of art and science. I would, I would think so.

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Speaker 1: I mean, certainly, when you say it, it becomes clear

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Speaker 1: what those what those parameters are in order to become

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Speaker 1: good at either one you have to understand how to

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Speaker 1: do it. You have to put the work in. You

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Speaker 1: have to know how to play the base or how

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Speaker 1: to play the guitar, and to be your golfer, you

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Speaker 1: have to know how to swing the club, how to

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Speaker 1: hit the club, how to move your body. So all

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Speaker 1: those scientific and technical aspects come into play. But once

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Speaker 1: you've learned that, it's nothing without the imagination and the

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Speaker 1: creativity to do something with it. Um. You know, Alan,

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Speaker 1: I've been reading your book recently about phil and and

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Speaker 1: just you know, that's the paradigm example of of someone

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Speaker 1: who put the work in to learn how to do

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Speaker 1: these things and then had the imagination and creativity to

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Speaker 1: to apply that to whatever situation he put himself in. So,

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Speaker 1: uh that that's in the same for music. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you you can learn how to play guitar, but if

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Speaker 1: you don't have that creative part of your brain, you'll

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Speaker 1: never write a good song. Let's follow up and that

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Speaker 1: what about the competitive side, uh, golfer professional golf first,

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Speaker 1: coming to all different levels of competitiveness. Tiger and Jack

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Speaker 1: Nicholas of course would be at one level, but then

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Speaker 1: you have some you know, real soul type golfers like

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Speaker 1: like Jeff Ogilvie Um, for whom the competition is part

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Speaker 1: of it, but not the defining thing when you think

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Speaker 1: about your own success. Uh, in a really cut throat,

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Speaker 1: tough business, to what degree just competitiveness explain the success

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Speaker 1: of the band? I would? I don't like to think

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Speaker 1: of music as a competitive endeavor. People ask me to

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Speaker 1: judge Battle of the Bands and things like that, and

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to do that because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say, well, you're the winner and you're

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Speaker 1: the loser. That's that's sort of antithetical to what music is.

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Speaker 1: You know. The guy who sings in the shower to

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Speaker 1: me is a musician, just the same as as somebody

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Speaker 1: who's playing medicine square garden um. But it's I enjoy

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Speaker 1: I enjoy both aspects of it. I'm a very competitive person,

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Speaker 1: but I try not to put that in music. That's

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Speaker 1: why I play a lot of golf, I play a

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Speaker 1: lot of fantasy sports. I'm really competitive and I love

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Speaker 1: beating other people in a non harmed, full manner. And

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Speaker 1: uh and with music, though, with music, everybody should win.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like when we first got started. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're back in the early eighties, the music that what

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Speaker 1: was became indie rock was a reaction to the stifled

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Speaker 1: playlists of commercial radio, the the really you know, corporate

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Speaker 1: aspects of everything you heard on the radio, and all

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Speaker 1: the bands that we ran into on these you know

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Speaker 1: circuits that we were creating and they were creating, and

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Speaker 1: all the music we were making to play on this

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Speaker 1: brand new format of college radio. We were all in

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Speaker 1: that together. We were all. You know, there's no it's

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Speaker 1: not a zero sum game. That's the great thing about music.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can win. And you know with golf it isn't

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Speaker 1: is it isn't quite the same. But but that's the

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Speaker 1: difference there is. There is no you don't have to

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Speaker 1: be you don't have to beat somebody to win at music.

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Speaker 1: The songwriting process is always fasting me because you know,

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Speaker 1: Michael I, when we type our stories, we're just alone

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Speaker 1: in our little silos. That there might be some collaboration

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Speaker 1: in the back and with an editor and you might

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Speaker 1: tweak a passage here there, but it's really your own

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Speaker 1: individual creation. But you know, songwriting the alchemy between the

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Speaker 1: words and the music, and you have all these different

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Speaker 1: personalities together in the band and someone has to write

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Speaker 1: the words, but I know there's a lot of tweaking

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Speaker 1: along the way and and the rhythm and the bridges

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Speaker 1: and all that. Like it amazes me, you know. Michael

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Speaker 1: Stipe always seemed like a guy who was a poet

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Speaker 1: at heart and tremendously gifted and possibly little headstrong. Can

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Speaker 1: you speak to just how colplicated is to build a

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Speaker 1: song together as a collaboration. We were really lucky in

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Speaker 1: that aspect of the process because, Uh, Peter and Bill

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Speaker 1: and I would write the music, you know, sometimes alone,

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Speaker 1: sometimes together, Uh, And then we would all af forget

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Speaker 1: together and we'd show everybody what we had and we

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Speaker 1: would work on those songs together. And then Michael would

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Speaker 1: would take a tape home and work on his stuff

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Speaker 1: by himself, or he would sometimes not be at the practice,

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Speaker 1: which he really didn't need to be there, and the

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Speaker 1: three of us would whip these songs into shape and

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Speaker 1: then give him a tape and he would sit there

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Speaker 1: and write that by himself. So we were really fortunate

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Speaker 1: that we had a really nice division of labor um. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: Michael such a great lyricist that we had. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was very very few occasions where anyone said, I

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Speaker 1: don't like that, you know, please change it or please

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Speaker 1: do this. I mean I can count them on one

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Speaker 1: hand the times that that ever happened. So we were

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Speaker 1: just really lucky that we were all good at what

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Speaker 1: we did, and we all had a, if not an

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Speaker 1: intuitive understanding, certainly a learned understanding of of the process

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Speaker 1: and how it works. Peter's a rock historian. I am

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Speaker 1: to a lesser degree. So we knew all the pitfalls

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Speaker 1: that were built into this, all the problems that could develop,

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Speaker 1: and we tried to head those off at the past.

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Speaker 1: One of the things is Peter said early on, we're

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Speaker 1: going to split the songwriting four ways. Everybody gets equal

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Speaker 1: credit for every song we write. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to do that. I said,

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Speaker 1: if I write a great song, I want everybody to

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Speaker 1: know it. It's not about the me. I just want

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Speaker 1: the credit. So he said, yeah, I get that. He said,

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Speaker 1: I understand that, but but but there there are three

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Speaker 1: things that will break up a band, and money is

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Speaker 1: at the top of the list. And so if you've

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Speaker 1: got one or two guys writing all the songs and

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Speaker 1: getting all the publishing money, and the other guy or

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Speaker 1: two guys or girls. What I have you a using

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Speaker 1: guys as as my reference. Um, then then that causes problems,

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Speaker 1: if not sooner than later. So we just you know,

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Speaker 1: nipped that one in the bud and split it all equally,

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Speaker 1: which is the great one of the greatest decisions we

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Speaker 1: ever made. It actually turned out to be true because

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Speaker 1: we all did, uh contribute to the process. So so

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Speaker 1: let me sure I understand that you guys would write

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Speaker 1: the entire sound to the song, and then Michael would

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Speaker 1: have to channel that energy and that vibe in into

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Speaker 1: the words themselves, and there was not any back and forth. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's I think it's very different than the way most

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Speaker 1: people do it. I think for a lot of especially

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Speaker 1: singer songwriter soloists, but even within bands, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times the words come first and then you try to, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, build the music around that. But for us,

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Speaker 1: and I think one of the reasons that we were

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Speaker 1: so consistently good, one of the reasons is that we

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Speaker 1: had to like the song when it was just in music.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can have a really mediocre piece of music,

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Speaker 1: but if you put great lyrics and melody to it,

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Speaker 1: you've you've got a song. But what we did is

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Speaker 1: we already had songs that were great in our minds

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Speaker 1: anyway before we ever gave them to Michael, So everything

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Speaker 1: he did to them just added to the quality of

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Speaker 1: the peace, and I think that was certainly one of

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Speaker 1: our strengths. Jeff, what was r EM like in the

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Speaker 1: nineties when you were coming up in Australia? Was did

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Speaker 1: Australians grab I know, I know the band played there eventually.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how early on, but when do you

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Speaker 1: recall becoming aware of the band? Absolutely, we were all

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Speaker 1: right and we're pretty big time. I think Mark went,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much you saw in Australia, but

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Speaker 1: I think it was a lot. Um. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: our charts kind of followed the US, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean we kind of Australia sort of that mid between

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Speaker 1: the following the English and following the American music, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean that I am sort of transcended.

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Speaker 1: All of that was a pretty worldwide man from our perspective,

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Speaker 1: it was really big. I'm actually the most part of

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Speaker 1: interested in Mike is why are you a gear junkie?

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Speaker 1: Music like basses and golf? And also, I mean both

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Speaker 1: I think dabbling guitar like I have quite a lot

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Speaker 1: you end up if you really and being fortunate enough

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Speaker 1: that I've had a little bit of money and met

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Speaker 1: some cool people along the way. Um, why don't you

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Speaker 1: start getting into guitars. You can take a pretty big

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Speaker 1: deep dive into the equipment. And I found that the

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Speaker 1: older the guitar, the more fun it was to play. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's there's a lot of parallels I think with

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Speaker 1: golf clubs too. I think, how how do you feel

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Speaker 1: about guitars? Do you I mean, do you love them?

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Speaker 1: And do you like the older ones better? Do you

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Speaker 1: think technology has taken a soul out of it? Wow?

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Speaker 1: You know you You've hit on a lot of really

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Speaker 1: important topics in that in that one. Uh speech there

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Speaker 1: the yes older sorry college speech, but older, Yes, I

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00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: like older better. Um. One reason I didn't really become

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Speaker 1: a total gear head and guitar nerds because I just

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Speaker 1: know what a rabbit hole it can be. I mean,

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Speaker 1: once you start getting into you know, gear and guitars,

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Speaker 1: you can just you can just do deep dives for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life on it and always be

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Speaker 1: searching and always be looking and always be buying more guitars,

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Speaker 1: and and I knew that if I let myself do that,

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Speaker 1: I'd just be trapped forever. And and you know, you've

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Speaker 1: gotta have somewhere to put the dang things anyway, So

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Speaker 1: I tried not to go too far down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you gotta have you gotta find

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Speaker 1: what works for you. Um, you gotta find what you like.

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Speaker 1: I try to have, like what I shows you up

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Speaker 1: there on the wall. I've got a Gibson s g uh,

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Speaker 1: Gibson less Paul, really nice Fender strap, the Kenny Wayne

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Speaker 1: Shepherd model. I played with Kenny Wayne in some shows,

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Speaker 1: and he's got a great And then there's an Airline

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Speaker 1: three humbucking pickup guitar that, Jeff, you might really enjoy

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Speaker 1: if you've ever checked out an airline guitar. So, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: your head kind of. But but it's just I just

386
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Speaker 1: can't retain that much knowledge. So I never went that deep.

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Speaker 1: But I will say something funny about equipment. Um, I've

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Speaker 1: got a full set that I've managed to hold onto

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00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: of uh, Tommy Armor eight forty two. I think the

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00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: silver Scots from Michael I probably used them with you sometimes, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I couldn't find my other clubs were in

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Speaker 1: the shop or I couldn't find them, and they still

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Speaker 1: have steel shafts. So I went out to play around

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Speaker 1: with these forty two with steel shafts, and by the

395
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Speaker 1: fifteenth hole, my wrists were just killing me. I could

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00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: barely swing the club because those the steel shafts were

397
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: just killing me. So older is better in a sense.

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00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: But you've got to embrace the technology because it you know,

399
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: it'll it'll fend off some pain and certainly give you

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00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: a little more distance. Talking about the alon, so the

401
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: alans correct me if I'm wrong. Is the ale on

402
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: the guitar that Jack Watt might find in the well

403
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: in might findest but played really well in the watch shops,

404
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: the red thing? You know it might be because it's

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00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: certainly I'm looking at mine. It certainly looks like the

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00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: one he used to play here, you might you might

407
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: well be right about that. That sounds right, because it

408
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: certainly sounds like an airline. And there's that great uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever watched it. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if guys like you watched this, but guitar junkies do.

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00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 1: The that documentary they made it might get loud with

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Page and Jack Watton the edge, I think it was.

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00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: I have not seen that. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, I

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00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 1: mean you're it's probably sort of Uh, it's like a

415
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 1: golf magazine for a professional golfer. We don't read golf magazines,

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Speaker 1: and you probably don't watch guitar document I wanted. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I want to see him. I definitely want to.

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Speaker 1: Jack Watt's got this great quote. He's got this great

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Speaker 1: quote in there, and he says it'd be easy to

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Speaker 1: go out and buy a new less pall or a

421
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: new stratocaster, but that doesn't really make you a more

422
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Speaker 1: creative person. He wanted to buy sort of a crappy guitar,

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00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: so he had to dig the sound out of it.

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Speaker 1: He didn't want the guitar to make his sound. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to sort of an average crappy guittar. For what

426
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: I understanding, the Airline is kind of a crappy guitar,

427
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: and he wanted to it. I have to go. I

428
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: fond it. I think he's a wise man, uh and

429
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: incredible musician, but he's also very wise. Yeah, it's it's

430
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: it's it's like, you know, I think the same thing

431
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: with the golf. It's I'm really glad that that I

432
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: learned on You know, the technology today is just so astounding.

433
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: Uh that if you if you start out with that technology,

434
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: it just makes you think you're better than you are

435
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: and you don't really You may not put the work

436
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: in to really get where you want to go with it.

437
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I I totally agree with that remark.

438
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: I love the Airline. No, it's not the best guitar

439
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: ever made, but if you can figure it out, you

440
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,239
Speaker 1: can make it sound good. And that's that's where your

441
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: create creativity comes into play. That's kind of like why

442
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: pros use blades, right, Jeff, Like you want the feedback.

443
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: You want to know the missits. You want to know

444
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: where the sweet spot is. If I hold like a

445
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: blade three iron and it makes me fearful. Uh, you know,

446
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: I need the technology. But you know, better players they

447
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: want less margin for air. I guess it's the same

448
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: in their guitar. I think the less the less the

449
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: club helps you, the more you have to get fonder. Yeah. Like,

450
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: if you want to fix your putting, you're not gonna

451
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: get a big mallet. You gotta get a bull's on.

452
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: I went. I found my dad passed away some you know,

453
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, but I found he had a is

454
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: it a Ben Hogan steel shafted one iron? And so

455
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: I took it to the range and it was just

456
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: it was like it was I don't know, it was

457
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: like trying to hit it with an automobile. It was like,

458
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: it's just nothing worked. I couldn't. I couldn't get it

459
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 1: wording the foot off the ground. It hurt my hands,

460
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: it hurt everything to hit the ball. I was like,

461
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 1: holy cow, how did these guys play with these and

462
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: and you know, devastate the course with these clubs. I

463
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: couldn't even get the ball, you know, thirty ft down

464
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: the fairway. Was it was kind of amazing. Have you

465
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: ruled out the possibility that that's the club that Hogan

466
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: played until the seventies Second Green and in the nineteen

467
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: fifty Mike I would I would love to think that,

468
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: I would true. Was it a one iron? Did he

469
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: hit There's a debate whether it's a one arned one

470
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 1: and a half or two? Uh. Some people think it

471
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: was a two bent to a one and a half,

472
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: and some people think it was the other way, but

473
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: her Wind and Hogan went to their graves, never really

474
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: settling that very important debate. Wow, that's that's awesome. Yeah,

475
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: that might have been the club there. I'm sure my

476
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: dad found it somewhere. It's funny how how mythology makes

477
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: it a one iron. It sounds so much more impressed

478
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: than two iron, even though it would be an incredibly

479
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: hard shot with the two iron back then also, but

480
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: one iron is just so much more macho. I don't

481
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: know the old the old joke, if you get caught

482
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: out on the course in a lightning storm, you hold

483
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: up a one iron because even God can't hit a

484
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: one iron. So good I love that. Uh, while we're

485
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: at it, my gud, do you know the last thing

486
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: that the drummer said to his bandmates before he was

487
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: kicked out of the band, see you at the burger king? No,

488
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: that would be good though. Here's news. Here are some

489
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: new songs I've been working on. That's cold, Michael, that's

490
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: that's cold. Well, we're not drummers here, Um, Mike, what Mike,

491
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: what was your attitude about playing golf on the road

492
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: when the band was touring? Well, I did it as

493
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: often as possible, but the longer the tour goes on,

494
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: the more at a premium sleep becomes so your your

495
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: days off. I'm not an early riser anyway, so playing

496
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: on day of show was pretty much out, and on

497
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: days off it just got to the point where all

498
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: you wanted to do was sleep in and relax and

499
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: stay in the hotel room, or maybe we walk around

500
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: whatever town you were in. But but getting up early.

501
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: I wish I'd been such a fiend that I would

502
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: get up at seven o'clock and go play golf. But

503
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: there's just no way when you do a show the

504
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: night before and you finished at eleven o'clock and you're

505
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: completely jacked up and wired, and there's all these fun

506
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: things to go do there. You know. I was never

507
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: disciplined enough to go home and go to bed and

508
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: then get up and play golf. But I did a

509
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: few times. I got to play some cool play just

510
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: in Australia. UM played a bit in Perth because we

511
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: had a we had a I guess we went down

512
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: there early before the start of the tour and played

513
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: at uh I don't know the course in Perth, but

514
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: they had these enormous bats that were like long hanging

515
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: in the trees next to the okay. And then my

516
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: favorite part was I, of course, I sliced to drive

517
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: off off the side of the fairway into a bunch

518
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: of tree stumps, and I walked over there and as

519
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: I got close, they started moving, and I was like,

520
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: what the hell? I had hit my ball into the

521
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: middle of a group of kangaroo and I'm like, okay,

522
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: excuse me, guys, excuse me. And they kind of hopped

523
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: out of the way a little bit. And I walked

524
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: up to my ball and they were all looking at

525
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: me like who's this weirdo? And They've left me a

526
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: little window and I hit out and I said thanks everybody,

527
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: and I walked back on the course and they just

528
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: sat there and looked at me like I was from Marks.

529
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: It was really cool. Jeff, Jeff, where you want to

530
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: listen to music on your way to the golf course

531
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: or what was your at you about mixing golf and music?

532
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: I think they mix. Yeah. I used to listen to

533
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: it um and I'd get superstitious about the album that

534
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: I'd be listening to all the music I listened to,

535
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: because if I played well, I was listening to it

536
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: all week. It's kind of different now because it's you're

537
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 1: just shuffling Spotify or something, so like, I'm not choosing.

538
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: But back when you had to choose the CD and

539
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: put it in the the fewick like CD player that

540
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: we used to drive for the course every day, I

541
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: pick one for the week, Um, led Zeppelin too or something,

542
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: and if I played well, and then I'd have to

543
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: listen to it every single time before every tournament until

544
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: I've proven that it doesn't work anymore, and then don't

545
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: have to move on to something else. Um, But it's

546
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: kind of nice. I missed those days when you would

547
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: have a CD in the car and you would just

548
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: do it, would just do laps um radio hit okay,

549
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: computer did laps in my car for a really long

550
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: time for some reason. I just couldn't get off that thing,

551
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: and I just, um, you don't do that anymore. You

552
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: pick and choose your song. You're almost not finishing songs

553
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: anymore because you can just get to the next one

554
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 1: and your phone is shuffling it for you and it's

555
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: just picking you whatever you want. I missed those days

556
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: where I used to put in an album and just

557
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: have it do laps. In my car for a week.

558
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: You know it's uh, But yeah, I think it's fantastic,

559
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: and I've been a bad habit. I don't think it's

560
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: a great thing for practice. I mean, I know it's

561
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: a modern thing for the kids to listen to headphones

562
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: when your partner practice UM, But as an indulgence every

563
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: now and then, I like to do it because I

564
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: just practice some great music. Just buy yourself on the

565
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: range with music in your head is just a Really

566
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things to do. You think

567
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: it's it's not a good idea because because then in

568
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: competition that's taken away from you and and whatever emotions

569
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: the music and still didn't have been have been robbed

570
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: in that competitive setting. I think, I mean, I think

571
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: that there's probably some benefit to sort of keeps your

572
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: mind active so you don't overthink your technique and stuff.

573
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: I think that's that could be pretty handy. But I

574
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: think golf is the game of awareness, and I think

575
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: you're taking you're dulling. You're completely dulling one of your senses.

576
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: And I think sound is really related to feel um,

577
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: and so I think you're sort of you're not using

578
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: your all your capabilities when you're when you kill one

579
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: of your senses. I think, um, another, look, it's the

580
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: modern thing, and I might be wrong. I mean, I

581
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: know the young kids probably think I'm crazy because they

582
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: can't practice without headphones, right and I and I see it.

583
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: A lot of guys on tour like it because it

584
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: keeps them in a little bubble and no one talks

585
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: to them. And I mean maybe they don't even have

586
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: any sound in their mean. Patrick really used to love

587
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: practicing with headphone practice, I know, what so so no

588
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: one would talk to him. I think, Um, it's just yeah,

589
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: it's whatever floats your boat, I guess. But I always

590
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: found that I didn't get as much out of the practice,

591
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: but I did enjoy the practice. You know, I could

592
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: hit balls all day if I was listening to good music,

593
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: and I would never get bored, you know, But if

594
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: I take them out, then I'd probably get bored a

595
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: little quick. I want to go to something else. Did

596
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: you ever think, Jeff, when you were picking the music

597
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: about tempo and rhythm? Because to me, I mean, obviously

598
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, both music and golf are all about tempo

599
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: and rhythm, and you know, it's like it's like picking

600
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: the right work music. If it's too fast or too slow,

601
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, your your body doesn't do what you really

602
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: wanted to do. And it seems like I might be

603
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: worried that if you you know, you obviously not playing

604
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: any death metal when you're trying to put but uh,

605
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: it seems like something you might have to think about.

606
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: Like Kevin, Kevin Struelman, I was playing with him at

607
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: a program right before I hit his ball. The worst

608
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: day of my life on the golf course. Um, but uh,

609
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: you know he he keeps a metronome in his head,

610
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: sometimes musical in terms of his putting tempo, and that

611
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: really helped me when he told me that, Yeah, hit

612
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: Kevin Strulman's golf ball. No, it's so, it's so, we're playing.

613
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: It's a it's a program. It's not it's not it's

614
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: not real. He's just practicing. I go up to the spotter.

615
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: I didn't throw him under the bus at the time,

616
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: but I'm throwing him under the bus now. He pointed

617
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: at the ball, he said, you got you got two

618
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: hundred to clear that whatever. Because I outdrove Kevin, I

619
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: caught the hill and it was twenty yards ahead. So

620
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: I just assumed that had to be my ball, because

621
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: surely the pro was yards ahead of me and it

622
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: looked like my mark on the ball. I didn't look

623
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: close enough, so the guy the spotter says, okay, this

624
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: is yours. You got this? So I hit it and

625
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: Kevin came up. We couldn't find his ball, and I'm like,

626
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: oh no, you did not just make the cardinal mistake

627
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: of any pro am ever, so hopefully he's uh here,

628
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: gives me for it. But boy, I felt lower than

629
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: a caterpillar's tonails at that moment. That was just bad.

630
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: As you surely know. You know. Link Soul is a

631
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for

632
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: at least a decade. It's cool stuff. It's super comfy.

633
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: One of the Firepit loves it. We're believers. If you

634
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635
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636
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637
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Speaker 1: card per episode. So go to the Firepit YouTube channel

638
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: and leave a comment from this episode and say how

639
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: much you loved it, because surely you're loving it. You're

640
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: a golf fan. You have to be loving this and

641
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: the winners will be notified and promoted on our Instagram

642
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: and our Twitter feeds. So get involved. We're trying to

643
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: have some fun. We also have to pay the bills

644
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: here at the fire Pit Collective. So back to Nita fourth,

645
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: if you could have a walk up song to the

646
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: first t if that was allowed at a tournament and

647
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: you have to pick one song that it distills your

648
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: entire essence, what song would that be? I don't know.

649
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: We thought about that, remember that would I do that

650
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: at New Orleans? Now don't I? And the Zerich thing? Um?

651
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: You know what, I don't know. I'll get back to

652
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: it by the end of this. What do you think

653
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: what would you walk up to? Well, it would probably

654
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: be some nineties gangster wrap just to get me in

655
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: the right frame of mind for competition, but that that

656
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: might scandalize the crowds at tour events, So I don't

657
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,239
Speaker 1: know what. I'll give it a little further thought as well. Mike,

658
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about alchemy as it

659
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: relates to a band getting getting together and and Jeff

660
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: you you can chime in on this too. But they

661
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: used to say Ben Crunshaw, he couldn't play a course

662
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: or even a hole that he didn't think it was

663
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: a well constructed course of course their whole. Jeff was

664
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: obviously well on his game, you know, playing great golf

665
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: when you showed up at Wingfoot that year. But I

666
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: would I would guess when he won the US opened. Uh,

667
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: but I would guess that if we're a different course

668
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: and his vibe wasn't exactly the same for it, um,

669
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 1: it would have been a different week altogether. I remember, Mike,

670
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: your forty birthday party. A great Athens band was there, Mike,

671
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: I'm just blanking on the name, thank you, my love

672
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: tractor and and uh, I had never heard the band before,

673
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: just as spectacular acoustic mostly acoustic or maybe all acoustics sound.

674
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: And I said to Mike, you know, how come you

675
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: guys you know, both a great musicianship, and you guys

676
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: made it and these guys didn't. And my part of me,

677
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: if I don't have this exactly correct, but probably have

678
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: the mood of it correct. And I think your answer was,

679
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, when we were coming together as a band,

680
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: we were all good musicians and we got along well.

681
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: But we didn't know is that Michael Pipe had charisma

682
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: when we started playing, you know, for turnity gigs and

683
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: what other little you know, early shows you had. It

684
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: was a revelation. Um So, I wonder what role alchemy

685
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: plays has played in your life Mike as a musician,

686
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: and Jeff maybe for you as well, to what degree

687
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: does alchemy play a role of Like you and the caddy,

688
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: you and the playing partner, you and the golf course,

689
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: everything just sort of coming together well as far as

690
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: the band goes, chemistry is everything literally almost literally everything

691
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: and there you can put four great musicians together, but

692
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: if they don't have that indefinable thing, uh, then you know,

693
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: there there there won't be any soul in what they

694
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: put out. More than likely the fact that that you know,

695
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: in R. E. M. We fed off each other's strength

696
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: and strengths and weaknesses. We compensated for for those things.

697
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: Um we just there was just something that happens when

698
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: the four of us got together, and it was it

699
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: was you know, it was magic. It was chemistry. You know,

700
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: you could use any number of abstract words for it,

701
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: but that's got to exist for a band to really

702
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: be successful. There just has to be some energy that

703
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: occurs only when those people are together, um, and that's

704
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: what happened with us, and you can feel it sometimes.

705
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: I mean we went to a friend of ours got

706
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: married and we all went to the wedding. It was

707
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: the first time the four of us had been in

708
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: one place in some years and it was weird. I mean,

709
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: we stood together and people just sort of backed away

710
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: because there was this weird like force field around the

711
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: four of us just standing in the same place. And

712
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: I've never noticed it quite like that before, but but

713
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: it was real. So for as far as bands go, yeah,

714
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: you gotta have it or you're just wasting your time.

715
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: It's just you for me, the golf for the golf

716
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: call on your golf course and Cutty a little different,

717
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: they're probably the same. But um, if it engaged me,

718
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: I mean, Wingfoot just engaged me like it was just

719
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: an unbelievable challenge and I just did enjoyed. It captured

720
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: me from the first the first time, I mean the fifth,

721
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: the first green up. Wingfoot doesn't capture your attention, then

722
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: you're not really interested in golf, I don't think, um.

723
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: And it just the more I get into it, like

724
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: the old Course, the Master's Royal Melbourne, like those sort

725
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: of courses. I just love playing because I just love

726
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: the challenge. It doesn't matter if it's set up easy

727
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: or hard that week. Um, it's just it asks you

728
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: to hit more fun golf shots than most other golf

729
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: courses do. If it asked me to hit really creative

730
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: good asked me to hit golf shots that weren't sort

731
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: of we're above and beyond the normal sort of everyday

732
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: PG two a week, it just captured my attention more.

733
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: And I think I enjoyed that challenge more and played well.

734
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 1: And I think caddies are similar. I played my best

735
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: with Squirrel, who was my caddy for Alistair. We should

736
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: call him, but everyone will know him the Squirrel for

737
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: about ten or twelve years, and I just loved playing

738
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: golf with him. I just loved playing golf with him

739
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: on my back. I just enjoyed it. Um. So I

740
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: think the chemistry in that respect comes from just really

741
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: enjoying each other's company and just it wasn't golf without

742
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: him there, you know, I mean, it was uncomfortable. It's

743
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: just a really good I just enjoyed the experience and

744
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: loved how he carried and he clearly I guess he

745
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: enjoyed working for me, and so it worked. I mean,

746
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: you see it with Tiger and Stevie there for a while,

747
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: much fun they were having those first few years doing it,

748
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: and that Michael and Jordan have had their times. But

749
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: how much fun they look like they're having those great partnerships. Um,

750
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: I think they might not be explainable. Like Mark says

751
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: in the band a minute, just all of a sudden,

752
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,959
Speaker 1: you just get two people or four people or five

753
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: people or whatever it is together and it's just the

754
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: summer is greater than the that's greater than the adding

755
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: up the parts. So I hope you say it, and

756
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: it's just there's something special there. And I think most

757
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: of it is just you love you just you just

758
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: love doing what you do more when they're there, you know, So, Jeff,

759
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: when I ask you, I mean, it's surely one of

760
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: the most satisfying things about golf in general, wingfoot in particular.

761
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: But you know, you never want to put yourself in trouble,

762
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: but surely being able to be having to create a

763
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: shot that is not your standard normal shot, having to

764
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: create a shot and use that shot to get out

765
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: of the trouble, that has to be one of the

766
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: most satisfying things about playing a good competitive round of golf,

767
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: is that, right? I think so? Yeah. I mean because

768
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: the driver is a driver, right, Um, you sort of

769
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: just a drive as a driver YDS is a seven on.

770
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter really where you are. I mean, obviously

771
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: the better the course and the tougher it is, you

772
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: might have to do something special with it. Um, But yeah,

773
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: it's the shots off to the side. Yeah, the shades

774
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: of gray, you know, it's the little fly alive slightly

775
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: into the wind with a short one. It's like a

776
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: lot trickier than it looks, and you've got to be

777
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: careful because over the bag is bad and I don't know,

778
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: it's just all those little infinite bits in between that

779
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: are the really interesting thing about golf, not the black

780
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: and white, just the driver up in the middlehead as

781
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: far as you can. It's much more ah engaging and interesting.

782
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: I think when you've got a yeah, you just got

783
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: to level it up. I mean, there's a seven one

784
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: into the first hole and just a normal basic golf course.

785
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: It's like that's great yards at lants on a soft

786
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: grain and stops. But then you get to the first

787
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 1: hole at wingfoot or something, and it's seven nine. There's

788
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: about nine levels on that grain, and if you hit

789
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: on any one of them except the one that you

790
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: want to be on, you're going to make a five

791
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: or six. That's just that's a leveled up challenge. And

792
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: I think if you're a competitive minded person. I'm not

793
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: even a competitive minded person, just passionate for the for

794
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: the sport and the sort of it's not about. There's

795
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: no master in golf, and it's exactly the same as music.

796
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: You don't master music. You just want to see how

797
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: sort of much you can get into it. You know,

798
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: how good you can, how good you can get at

799
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: it um and what you can do and can you

800
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: do anything new? Can you can you have had a

801
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: better shot here than you did last time. So I

802
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: don't know. I just find that it's all the area,

803
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: the shades of gray and golf, to use a cliche,

804
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: that are the interesting ones. Yeah, and coming up with something.

805
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: Especially the funnest thing is a tournament golfer, I think

806
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: is having it be dead and and knowing the announce

807
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: as a sign you keep this guy's not getting this

808
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: up and down, and you know the people with the

809
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: guys in the crowd. They know you're not going to

810
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: get up and down, but they're actually getting it up

811
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: and down. Um, coming up with something special, that's one

812
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: of the most satisfying things. But people don't think you

813
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: could do something and doing it, um that that's the

814
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 1: satisfying thing for me. That's funny because you know, talking

815
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: about you know, Michael Stipe has that ability to connect

816
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: with the crowd or whatever, that that star quality is

817
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: that a lot of singers just don't have, Like I'm wondering,

818
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: Jeff like, and you've talked about how a lot of golfers,

819
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: you like, they'd like to show off. They like that

820
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: that buzz from doing something for the crowd. But what's

821
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: the other side of that? Are there are there really

822
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: talented players who because they're introverts and because maybe they're

823
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: loners or whatever their personality or their their background, they

824
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: don't connect with the crowd. They don't feel the energy.

825
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: And do you think that that's something that hurts some

826
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: talented golfers in a way that it's hard to put

827
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: your finger on. But when you were talking about, oh,

828
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: this guy has such a great swing, you should have

829
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: won more, you know, what was the missing piece. I mean,

830
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: can it be the personality and they don't enjoy the

831
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: crowd and the intensity, like as you know a big

832
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: tournament that that walk from the green to the next

833
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: tea people are screaming and shouting and then you're on

834
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: the tea box and they're on top of you. Like,

835
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: did you think that throws people off? I think there's

836
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: definitely guys who are uncomfortable with that um side of things,

837
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: and there's some guys that really lift up. I mean

838
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: picking I'm a and Polter clearly like thrives. Guys like

839
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: A and phil Um. They thrive the more people than

840
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: the more sort of the more they can entertain, the

841
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: more they sort of go well. But then when you

842
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: get other ends of the spectrum, successful guys like Hogan,

843
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: I don't think you really loved the crowd. Didn't you

844
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: just love the sport? And he just wanted to hit

845
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: great shots and just didn't understand why he didn't. He

846
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: couldn't just hit better and better and better and better shots.

847
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't about impressing people phone it was about impressing himself,

848
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I think there's multiple different ways to

849
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: do it. I don't know that if you can work

850
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: out why some guys make it once some guys don't.

851
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: You can probably write a better book than your last one,

852
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you'll sell a few more. Um,

853
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna up. That's the question forever. And it's

854
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: like what what makes people successful and what doesn't? I mean,

855
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a recipe of so many different ingredients.

856
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: It's just totally intangible. But that's the fun part, right.

857
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, some guys really get the whole package. Though.

858
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: Tiger clearly was the best golfer, and he got better

859
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: when there was more people and the bigger the occasion,

860
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: and the I mean said he was the same Arnold

861
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: was clearly better when there was people around, you know. Um.

862
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: And there's other guys who win small tournaments that never

863
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: win big tournaments. And then there's guys like Brooks who

864
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: only win big tournaments. You know, Um. Who is how

865
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: it all places us together? We're all different. Something works

866
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: for some gods that doesn't work for others. But it's

867
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: such a it's such a relatively solitary endeavor. I mean, obviously,

868
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, you have your coaches and your caddy and

869
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: everything that gets you to where you're going. Once you're

870
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: out there, it's you and and all of I guess

871
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: all of those things come into play. Whether you like

872
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: the crowd noise, or whether you like that particular course

873
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's it's just all those little things. How

874
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: you handle it, how you channel it to to use

875
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: it to your advantage rather than letting it get in

876
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: your kitchen and you know, distracting you. Um. I think

877
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: golf as much as any other things that you know,

878
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: maybe tennis is really all about channeling those things and

879
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: using them to your advantage. And if you can't, you

880
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: won't win. I think. So do you fund? Do you fund?

881
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: Do you play better in front of paper? Or do

882
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: you play better when you buy yourself? Well? As as

883
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: far as the band goes, the crowd is so important. Um.

884
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 1: We would go we would go to places and we'd

885
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: be tired and hungover and not thrilled to be in

886
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: this particular place, but the crowd was so glad to

887
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: have us there that you know, and you know pretty

888
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: quickly how it's going and you're like, holy cow, these

889
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: guys are awesome. And then you want to give them

890
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: the best show possible and they they can lift you up.

891
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: The crowd can make you a better band. They can

892
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: also make you crap. Uh. There are a couple of

893
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: countries that that the audiences are just so dead. We

894
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: used to Bill Berry and I used to moo at

895
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: each other on the bad shows because the crowd are

896
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: just like a bunch of cattle out there. Why are

897
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: you even here? Um? But but those were you know, yes, absolutely,

898
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: the crowd is an essential part of of a live show.

899
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you can. You can. You can rock out

900
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: by yourself and you can rock out at rehearsal and

901
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: be just amazing. But it's really those are just, you know,

902
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: means to an end, and the end is playing the

903
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: show and having having you and the crowd go on

904
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: a journey together. And then uh and and like Peter said,

905
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,959
Speaker 1: when it's really all working, it's like walking on water.

906
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: You literally you can't do anything wrong. Everything you do

907
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: is exactly the thing you should have done. And some

908
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: of those nights, I mean, they are just magically. You

909
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: walk off stage and you're like, holy cow, that's that's

910
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: the best thing that could ever happen to anyone. Can

911
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: musicians choke? You know, you talk about athletes choking? Can

912
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: can have you ever gone on stage and for whatever reason,

913
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: like you couldn't summon the magic. Yes, absolutely, and you

914
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: can't really see that coming. I mean you get up there.

915
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: And sometimes the worst job in rock and roll is

916
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: a monitor engineer. It's like it's like the drummer for

917
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: spinal Tap. You know how the drummer for spinal Tap

918
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: kept exploding and blowing up. Pe bands go through monitor

919
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: engineers like you go through Kleenex at home, because it's

920
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: your every every space is different, every song is different,

921
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: and the monitor engineer has to deal with making you know,

922
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: where everybody can hear what they need to hear. And

923
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: some musicians can be really persnicket, to be persnicke about

924
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: what they want to hear, and it's it's a hard

925
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: job and if they don't get it right, or if

926
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: if you know, or for example, like sometimes you'll have

927
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: a show and some can I say, asshole, some asshole

928
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: bought the tickets on StubHub for his girlfriend and he

929
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: didn't want to be there, and he's sitting in the

930
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: front row like this just board to tears and I've

931
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 1: literally leaned over the stage and go, why are you here?

932
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: Why are you even here? And he's and he's like,

933
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: what are you talking to me? I said, because you're

934
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: sucking up my show. You're you're you're sitting out there

935
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 1: like a total pole, and it's you know, I can't

936
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: have fun with you right in front of me looking

937
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: like a bump on a log. So um. Anyway, Yes,

938
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that can that can

939
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: take you out of your comfort zone, and sometimes you

940
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: can rise above it and sometimes you just don't. But

941
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: the great thing about being in a band is even

942
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: if you have a bad night, if everybody else has

943
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 1: a pretty good night, the crowd will never know, and

944
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: so you can you can come through it. Okay, Mike,

945
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: you I'm I know you've played with a lot of

946
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: well known golfers over the area. Bention Kevin Strielman, I

947
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: know you played with Davis. I'm quite sure you've played

948
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: with Fred Couples and maybe Phil Mickelson who has helped

949
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 1: you along the way. What have you picked up from

950
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: these golfers over the years. A sense of my own

951
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: limitations is the first thing I got. I mean, you know,

952
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: it's it's like, what was it? Bob Joan said about Nicholas,

953
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: he plays a game with which we are not familiar.

954
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: I mean the first time I played with Davis, I

955
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, there's this. It doesn't matter what I

956
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: do out here, because he's not playing the same game.

957
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: I am it. They're just not even They're barely related. Uh.

958
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: So you know what you learned is how to maybe

959
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: how to comport yourself. Uh. You know one thing, Pros

960
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: for the most part, I never played with Tommy Bolt,

961
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: but I think for the most part, Pros learned that,

962
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: you know, you've got to stay within yourself and and

963
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: stay focused and and don't lose your mind over a

964
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: bad shot. Um. I think that that's sort of consistency

965
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: is something that's worth taken home. And I've tried to

966
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: to to to bring that to my golf game. You know,

967
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: try to enjoy every shot and if it's bad, then

968
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: you get to hit another one. Most of the time,

969
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: have you played with Fred? I have not played with Fred, uh,

970
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: which is a bummer. He played here in Athens. One

971
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: of my favorite stories is UH Athletes country Club but

972
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: used to have these really just cheap plastic white benches

973
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: on every t and Burnus is playing Fred and playing

974
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: with Fred about the third hole, Fred looks at that

975
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: cheap white plastic bench and takes us driver and just

976
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: taps it two or three times. Didn't say a word,

977
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: just tapped the bench two or three times and looked

978
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: at Burnas and they replaced him the next year. Is

979
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: very Fred is very subtle. He can be very subtle.

980
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 1: It's true. How about Phil. Have you played with Phil?

981
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: I haven't? I keep miss And it's like my good

982
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: friend Mark Williams plays with Phil and uh and Burgers

983
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: got to play with Fred. I've I've I've just not

984
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: been in town a lot of times when these guys

985
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: are around to play with. I've I've been lucky enough.

986
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: I played with Justin Leonard. Uh like Kevin of course,

987
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: and I played with the Davis a few times, and uh,

988
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, and and I play at Davis's tournament almost

989
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: every year down at Sea Island, so I get to

990
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: play with a lot of different pros there, and that's always,

991
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, and there's something to learn from from all

992
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: of them. Uh, some more than others. But but I

993
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: really enjoy watching their approach. Um, we had a great

994
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: time one year. Uh. The team had just flown back

995
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: from the Ryder Cup in Ireland. The devastation at the

996
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: k Club and coach was our pro and he was

997
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: he was you know, they just spent all of their

998
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: energy getting wiped out in Ireland and he was kind

999
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: of sick and and he got out and played with

1000
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: us and was great. I mean he only helped us

1001
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: on one hole. He had an eagle in a car

1002
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: five and the rest of it was us, you know,

1003
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: him and egging it around and we won the tournament

1004
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: and that was super fun. Yeah. But the great thing

1005
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: was us didn't know who I was, so about the

1006
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: fifth hole, sixth holes, somebody cluing him in and and

1007
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: when I was at at earshot, he looked at the

1008
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: other guys in my grooms. Were you assholes just gonna

1009
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: go the whole round without telling me who that guy was?

1010
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: He was? He was not happy, but hey, we had

1011
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: a great time. Good guy. Have you played with Bones? Yeah? Yeah,

1012
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: I played with Bones. Uh. He's he's just one of

1013
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: the best people in the world. But I have gotten

1014
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: to play with Bones. He caddied for me once way

1015
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: back before he was more famous than I am, so uh,

1016
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: that was really super cool. He's a great guy and

1017
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: I hope we get to play against him. Yeah, for

1018
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: those who are listening at home, don't know Bones has

1019
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: Athens Georgia connections as well. What was it like to

1020
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: have with Caddy? For you, that's gonna be a litidating

1021
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: because he's used to seeing some world class called Well,

1022
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: it's it's all like playing with the pros. You just

1023
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: you know, they know, they've all been there. You know.

1024
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: Nobody starts out great, well a few of them do,

1025
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: but most of them have hit. They hit, they hit

1026
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: the shanks, they've they've hit the mud ball, they do

1027
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And and you know, the thing you

1028
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: learned is could be ready when it's your turn. Don't

1029
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: throw your club, you know, don't curse unless you know

1030
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: the prob really well. And and uh, you know what

1031
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: if you just if you just go with those rules,

1032
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: it's it's it's really cool and really fun. I had

1033
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: kind of an odd, interesting experience this summer. Mike and

1034
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: I were or maybe I just sent Michael Texas, said Christie.

1035
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: And my wife Christie and I had gone to see

1036
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: Bobs s. Gags, who's about seventy eight now, and um,

1037
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: like from the first chord of the show, I mean

1038
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: it was spectacular. Uh, and he had done so much

1039
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: to get himself in such good shape for this uh

1040
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: tour was really like a magical experience. I mentioned it

1041
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: to Mike and Mike said that that that Mike and

1042
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: his wife Jasmine, so I have this right. Mike had

1043
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: just blown not that long ago also to see Bobs gags, uh,

1044
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: which was interesting. But it's interesting how any of us

1045
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: can have connections to these people who are Yeah, I

1046
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: don't know what really roughly the equivalent be, but like

1047
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: like if you if you're my age, and let's say

1048
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: like Burt Yancy. Now Jeff would definitely know the name

1049
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: BURTI Yancy. Mike you may not even know that name,

1050
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: and Alan you may be too young to do Burte

1051
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: y Uh. Just quick show him, Jeff, do you know

1052
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: the name Burt Yancy? Mike does Jeff? Do you? Alan?

1053
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: Do you I know the name? But I couldn't tell

1054
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: you much about it. Like he was a legend. He

1055
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: was you know, he went to West Point and he

1056
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: had a lot of mental struggles, but he had made

1057
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: a total se He was like Boz Gaggs. He was

1058
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: just like this figure who was revered, but you know,

1059
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: not at the Hogan level or even even even close

1060
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: to that. I don't know what I'm saying here. I'm

1061
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: just gonna give up because I'm not really going anywhere

1062
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: with this except for that we except for that, we

1063
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: have attachments to I just you know what triggered It

1064
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: was just attachment that I think that Mike had to

1065
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: boz gags, and I think all four of us have.

1066
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: You know, I can imagine, you know, like you know,

1067
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: Mike and I are basically the same age. Like to

1068
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: see Henry Aaron the Fister Hotel in Milwaukee, I mean,

1069
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 1: it takes your breath that's Henry are and that's really

1070
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: an exception, but like just takes your breath away. And

1071
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: I would say this is true for all four of

1072
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: us to to be at the stages of a life

1073
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: where we are. We have this appreciation for those who

1074
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: came before us and the artistry that they brought to

1075
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: a pursuit that, as we were saying earlier, is this

1076
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: mix of science and art. It's just neat. It's it's

1077
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: neat for Alan and May both to have. Do you

1078
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: hear Jeff and Mike compare notes on these You know,

1079
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: our thing is difficult too, but we get a lot

1080
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: of other takes at it. Uh, these guys don't. Um. Mike,

1081
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: of course, can move on to the next song. Jeff

1082
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: really can't. He's got to play the foul balls. By

1083
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: the way, Mike, you may know this famously, that's a

1084
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: Trevino line. You know, even God get if if you're

1085
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: playing in a lightning storm, hold up a one arned wide,

1086
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 1: because even God can't hit a one arm I wonder,

1087
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: but evidently evidently, Mike, your dad could, or maybe that's

1088
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: why you got the club because he couldn't. Who know, well,

1089
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 1: I figured if he couldn't hit it might have been broken,

1090
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: but uh no it was. But it's a it's a monster.

1091
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: I just don't know how anybody can do it, but

1092
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: people do well. As as we come to the end

1093
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: of this podcast, I will say I saw Bob Dylan

1094
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: at a little venue in Santa Cruz not too long ago,

1095
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: and he sounded great and the band was super tight,

1096
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 1: and I had this sensation of sitting there like this

1097
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: whole crowd was just completely enraptured, and these these guys

1098
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: are making all these sounds with just their fingertips and

1099
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: and a few vocal cords, and it's kind of magic

1100
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 1: and how little it takes to make such a big sound.

1101
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: Just like for Jeff, you know, he can he can

1102
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: stand out there in the middle of fairway and he

1103
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: can do something magical just just with his you know,

1104
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: just his own body and a very simple tool in

1105
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: the ball, right. And the thing that you guys share

1106
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: is just like a really unique gift and you know,

1107
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: the rest of us get to enjoy it in such

1108
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: a deep and meaningful way. So it is it does

1109
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: need to bring you, guys, the two of you particular together.

1110
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: Well you know what what what it is. And I

1111
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: guess one of the things that that golf and music

1112
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: do have in common is they can be transcendent. I mean,

1113
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: to watch to watch a player who's just so completely

1114
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: dialed in and uh and just you know he's gonna

1115
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: manail every shot that he takes her in that round.

1116
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: To watch that, it elevates you, It puts you in

1117
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: a better place. And the same thing with going to

1118
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 1: see a musician or a band who is on fire

1119
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: that night. It lifts you. It takes you out of

1120
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: your life and puts you somewhere else. And uh that

1121
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: the fact that both golf and music can do that

1122
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: might have something to do with why there's so many

1123
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: people that like both of them. That's really really well said. Yeah,

1124
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: I do too, you know, to just to have the

1125
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to get lost in something that's way beyond yourself.

1126
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: Um is the nepl I remember when well Sorry to

1127
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: go down rebbel Over, Like when Dwight Gooden was at

1128
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: the height of his powers. You know, my brother and

1129
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: I would go to Shay or whomever, Christine, and I'm

1130
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: going to say, just to watch good and work, you know,

1131
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: and he'd worked through the ninth inning. It was just

1132
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: it was just like, as you say, a magical experience. Alan.

1133
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: This would be true for Allen as well. But I've

1134
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: covered uh, I think fourteen of Tigers Majors and even

1135
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: the boring ones like when he won by fifteen at

1136
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: the US Open at Pebble Beach. Just to watch the

1137
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: man in full, it's such a totally transcendent experience, Christine

1138
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: and I felt that listen to bos guys this summer

1139
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: and or even like a little moment like like a

1140
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: guy not in a violent way at all, but a

1141
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: guy through a shoe in the direction of Michael Stipe

1142
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: one set a show and uh and Michael picked it

1143
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: up and he tossed it back and he just said,

1144
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna need this, dude. And it was like, in

1145
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: another context it would be nothing, but in that context,

1146
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: like he had the presence and the confidence to just

1147
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: give the guy a shoe back because he's gonna go

1148
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 1: home after the show is over. It was just well,

1149
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: and that that's true. I mean, that is that is

1150
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: a certain calm confidence that really pay us off. But

1151
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: don't forget this. Writing is in there too. I mean,

1152
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: if not above, I mean writing takes The reason you

1153
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: guys are successfully what you do is because you take

1154
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: people out of there, you know, whatever space they're in

1155
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: before they start reading your books, and they take you

1156
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: take them to a different place. That's why they read

1157
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: your books, not just to learn things, but but to

1158
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: but to exist in a slightly different realm for as

1159
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: long as they're reading your book and maybe even for

1160
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: some time after. Uh. And And that's why you guys

1161
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: are known, because you're good at it and you can

1162
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: make people feel that way. Well that you're nice to

1163
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: say that, Mike, But there's one name I absolutely have

1164
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 1: to drop your there's a little bit of a friendship

1165
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: in a connection with our great friend John Garretty and

1166
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: Mike Mills. They share T Bones and the piano together.

1167
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: And if I have the story right, there's been occasions

1168
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: where Garity has maybe played piano, uh in front of

1169
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: Mike come out. Ah, I have that correct. But I'm

1170
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: glad those these are two of the most refined people

1171
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: you could ever meet in your life. Uh. Anyway, I've

1172
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: been called a lot of things, Michael, I'm not sure

1173
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: refined is one of them. But thank you. But yeah,

1174
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: but but guaranty guaranty and I've had a night or

1175
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: two that was that were really fun. What Mike Mills

1176
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: is a T Bones guy? I happened not to be.

1177
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: Alan Goes when his worst to Jeff probably I don't know, Jeff,

1178
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: are you probably not a T Bone guy? I'm guessing no, no, no,

1179
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: no no. But Mike, what's the amusing thing about how

1180
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: you signed in a gust of flag from one of

1181
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: the years, the Tiger one? Well, okay, Uh, First of all,

1182
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: I gotta say that what is funny is that we

1183
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: had T Bone burnette to dinner at T Bones during

1184
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: the Masters a couple of years ago. Um. That was

1185
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: but so no, they they had a they had Tiger's

1186
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: victory flag and and uh, he had signed it in

1187
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: the middle, and all these people who signed around the edges,

1188
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: and they gave it to me to sign, and I

1189
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what possessed me to do this,

1190
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh, the hell with it, and

1191
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: I signed in the middle next to Tiger's name, and

1192
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: and I kind of realized later that might not have

1193
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: been the most politic thing to do, but it's it's

1194
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: hanging there. It's still there, t bones with my name

1195
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: right next to Tigers because you know, he couldn't have

1196
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: won it without me, I guess, is the feeling. I

1197
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: do want to say that it's very generous of you

1198
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: to um Mike to talk about our typing. But when

1199
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: people ask me I do for a living, I say,

1200
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: I give people something to read while they're on the throad.

1201
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: So that's you got. You gotta keep it all in perspective,

1202
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: that's a valuable service. I agreed. But you know, one

1203
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: quick shout out, even though he's got mentioned, but this

1204
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: group comes together because Mike and I have share a

1205
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: mutual friend and I know Mike would agree as I'm

1206
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: saying this. People say this occasionally they said, up, my mom,

1207
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this of Burdas Burdas Downs, who is

1208
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: the connector between Mike and me. You cannot find a

1209
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: finer person in the world than Burdis sounds, and you

1210
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: will never find anybody who ever has anything negative to

1211
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: say about him, because his starting point is to treat

1212
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: people with fairness and courtesy and respect. Uh So um,

1213
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: he's just one of the great great people in my life.

1214
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for publicly here because

1215
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: among a million other things, he made this night possible

1216
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: in a roundabout way, I couldn't agree more. Michael, thanks

1217
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: for saying so that's great. Well, Mike Bills, thank you

1218
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: so much for being here. Uh. We have a little

1219
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: tradition on this podcast. After you leave, we're gonna we

1220
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: have a little Monday morning quarterbacking about your appearance and

1221
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: what we really think about you. So this is our

1222
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: last chance to thank you. And then you hit that

1223
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: little red FU icon and you're gonna disappear and we're

1224
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: going to stay on. But this is a great pleasure.

1225
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time and then your insight.

1226
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: It was really kind of magical to hear you. I

1227
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: haven't thought so much about the connection between golf and music.

1228
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: By the way you guys tease it out, that was

1229
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: really cool. Well you're you're so distracted by the super bottles,

1230
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: the wild and really super moneys, you know. Uh so

1231
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: it's it's been a it's been a total pleasure, guys.

1232
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: I I hope we all get to tee it up

1233
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: someday soon. Sounds good, but a cool dude. I mean,

1234
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: even even just a little studio there was so evocative,

1235
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, like you could if the walls could talk, right,

1236
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: it just looks like that that places has seen a

1237
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: few things, and uh, you know, it's it. It's kind

1238
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: of like golf is like music, right. I mean, all

1239
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: these all these guys were talking about Boss Gags and

1240
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: Mike Mills and Bob Dylan there in their sixties or

1241
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: seventies or eighties are still doing it. It's not unlike

1242
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: no longer. Like when you have a passion and you

1243
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: have a gift, like it doesn't really ever go away. So,

1244
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: I mean, how cool is it that. I don't know

1245
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: how old exactly Mike is, but he's he's been at

1246
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: this for a very long time, but obviously he still

1247
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: he still loves it. You know, Mike, we right about

1248
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: sixty five. Yeah, yeah, See, he's got a great spirit.

1249
01:01:55,120 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: He's got a youthfulness about him, um, and he's got

1250
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: a joy about in everything that he does. I've you know,

1251
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we all have moods, but his general mood

1252
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: is dryful, which is one of the reasons such a

1253
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: pleasure to be with. And he makes friends wherever he goes,

1254
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: all walks the life n chat. I enjoyed it. I

1255
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: can't believe you've never seen the parallels between music and golf,

1256
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: but I think they're the two closest. I think music

1257
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: is about its close, the only other thing that comes

1258
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: close to golf. You asked me timeless, Um, not neither

1259
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: of them a master able. You know, universal appeal all

1260
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: around the world. But I've got no soul, Jeff, so no,

1261
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: but Sam Sam snead. Jeff said that to me, I

1262
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: met sneed. Whenever I met sneed, uh sneed. You may

1263
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: know this job. He could play any instrument by ere.

1264
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: You give him a ban joe, you can give him

1265
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:59,439
Speaker 1: a bongo drum. You know, uh, two interesting instruments that well,

1266
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: it's it is West Virginia Manja somehow right. This has

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Speaker 1: been another episode of need to Fourth. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: tuning in. We will keep, We'll keep, the guests coming surprises,

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Speaker 1: A wait for Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger. I'm allen shipneck.

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Speaker 1: This was needed fourth. Thanks for listening. That's all mm hm,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. It's a dangerous crew here