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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from House Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Truck Bryant. I'm just a I'm just

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Speaker 1: a simple cleric mind in my way. Are you down

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Speaker 1: the Primrose Path? I was gonna ask you what what

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Speaker 1: you were? Got my staff, got my sword? Yep, that

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Speaker 1: you would be well outfitted man, ready to battles some nerds?

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Speaker 1: So have you have you played before? Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: about dungeons and dragons, and I think that is a

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Speaker 1: good move. Is two things one caveat if you're a

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Speaker 1: big D and D person. We're not gonna get everything right.

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Speaker 1: We'll get what we what we can write, obviously, but

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Speaker 1: when it's not gonna be as comprehensive as you want,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go over the basic indition and too,

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Speaker 1: I think we should both relate our own experience. So

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Speaker 1: people just knew I played a little little bit because

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Speaker 1: this is right in my wheelhouse. Dude, I was. I'm

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Speaker 1: really surprised that you're community. Let you play the Baptist community.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I didn't hear it talked about much in church,

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Speaker 1: but um, in school, there were some of my friends

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Speaker 1: started to play, and I played. I started to a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but it was always way too complicated and

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Speaker 1: involved for me. Um I played a little Top Secret.

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Speaker 1: That's another role playing game that was like the espionage

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Speaker 1: James Bond, D and D. So I played a little

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Speaker 1: bit of that, but I never got into it man

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Speaker 1: like other people did. And I think it's because I

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Speaker 1: was so active, and I was I would always rather

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Speaker 1: be out riding my bikes, my bike and playing at

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Speaker 1: the creek near my house and building forts and zip

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Speaker 1: lines and setting things on fire and putting fireworks and

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Speaker 1: bottle rockets and model planes and flying them off my roof.

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Speaker 1: So I was doing stuff like that. I wasn't so

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Speaker 1: much inside playing D and D or I was early.

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Speaker 1: I was an early gamer, so I'd be like, screw

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Speaker 1: dn D. Let's play adventure on Mataria and be a

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Speaker 1: block with an arrow right exactly. That's the real cutting stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that that was that was my deal. Mine was. UM.

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Speaker 1: I did all that stuff, like I had a four

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Speaker 1: in the woods and I had I could make a

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Speaker 1: pretty good machine gun sound, and um, I did all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But I also played D n

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Speaker 1: D fairly extensively. Several summers like that were just basically spent,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a friends basement playing Dungeon D. I

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Speaker 1: think it depends on who your friends, said is, unless

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Speaker 1: you're the initiator, like you'll just fall in and do

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Speaker 1: whatever your friends are doing. Um, and here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: I think this affected it too. I grew up on

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Speaker 1: a street in the woods with like six houses. I

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up in one of those big, sprawling neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: like all my other friends. So they would walk down

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Speaker 1: the street and play D and D. In the basement,

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Speaker 1: it was just me and my bro out. Like in

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Speaker 1: the woods. I would walk across the street for one

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Speaker 1: group and there was another one where I had arrived

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Speaker 1: I by distance I was. I was secluded. I was

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Speaker 1: sequestered out in the in the forest, and I got

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Speaker 1: made fun of because of that until later on when

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Speaker 1: all my friends were like, dude, you live on two

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Speaker 1: acres in the woods. That's rad. Let's have a bonfire exactly,

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Speaker 1: and we did so. So we both played D and D. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And we both are not experts in any way, shape

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Speaker 1: or form. Like from the time I last played D

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Speaker 1: and D until we started researching for this episode. I

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Speaker 1: forgot everything basically over those three months. So it was

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Speaker 1: like a pretty cool trip down memory lane, like going

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Speaker 1: back and researching that. Yeah, me too, some because I

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Speaker 1: didn't I don't think I remembered how much I had

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Speaker 1: played it, And it was a little bit more than

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Speaker 1: I had remembered because a lot of stuff was like

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I remember that, Yeah, I remember that cover,

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Speaker 1: I remember that box. But there was, like I tell

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Speaker 1: you exactly, there was a ton of new stuff that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that I learned in researching this, Like, um,

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Speaker 1: like Gary guyas gas oh Man, have a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people just put the ropes on, put the hoods on

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Speaker 1: their heads, like, um, Gary Guy GaX. Let's call him

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Speaker 1: Gary g from now on. He He is the co creator,

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Speaker 1: along with Dave Arnison, of Dungeons and Dragons UM. And

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Speaker 1: he started out as a war gaming fanatic, so much

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Speaker 1: so that he started gen Con at Lake Geneva, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: his hometown, UM, which is this huge gaming convention still um.

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Speaker 1: But he started out as a war gaming convention. And

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Speaker 1: that's basically where you rolled dice move little men. It's

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Speaker 1: like risk. Risk is a war game. It's like that

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Speaker 1: and Access and Allies are like quintessential war games. It's

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Speaker 1: a great game. But Guy GaX and and his buddies

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Speaker 1: were doing this before there was ever any risk, Like

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Speaker 1: they were making their own boards, they were reenacting battles

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Speaker 1: or doing alternate universe battles of them. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: along came Dave Arnison, who I kind of had this

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Speaker 1: idea for something a little less stilted, a little more

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Speaker 1: free form UM, and he didn't quite have a conception

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Speaker 1: of it yet, but Guy GaX did. He was working

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Speaker 1: on something called chain Mail, and they got together and

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Speaker 1: that ultimately became kind of the first dry run of

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Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons. Uh, And they liked what they were

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Speaker 1: doing and they kind of took it from there and

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Speaker 1: then ultimately made Dungeons and Dragons in nineteen seventy four. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't find out a whole lot about UM. About Arnisson,

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Speaker 1: it seems like Guy gas is always the I guess

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Speaker 1: because he was the original, like the originator of the idea.

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Speaker 1: He's always the one that's revered and like, you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: he was also I get the impression UM a lot

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Speaker 1: more of the self promoter than Arniston is UM. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they were both very much intimately involved in

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Speaker 1: the creation of this game, right um. Guy gags. Also,

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Speaker 1: by the way, slidebar says that he is a descendant

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Speaker 1: of Goliath. Is there a yeah? He well he he

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Speaker 1: didn't let me rephrase that the interview I saw. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't like, I'm a descendant of Goliath. Yeah, he wasn't

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Speaker 1: like that. He was a cool guy, Yeah, he said.

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Speaker 1: The guy GaX means giant and supposedly, like the family

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Speaker 1: law is that we are descendants of Goliath. So I

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Speaker 1: thought that was sort of interesting, more appropriate than descendant

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Speaker 1: of a biblical giant than to make this fantastical fantasy

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Speaker 1: game right exactly, you know. Um he And there's actually

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Speaker 1: like a really neat Wired article on him that includes

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Speaker 1: a pretty decent amount on artists and too, um called

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Speaker 1: The Dungeon Master. It's about Gary Guy GaX, who died

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. Say um. But the two

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Speaker 1: of them get together, and this is when when things

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Speaker 1: are really good, and they set up something called TSR,

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Speaker 1: which is a company called Technical Studies Rules, which sounds

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Speaker 1: like the most boring company you could ever think of,

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Speaker 1: But this company is what produced the this what became

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Speaker 1: the role playing game. Like you said, um, top secret

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Speaker 1: was the James Bond D and D. Yeah, you didn't say,

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Speaker 1: top secret was the James Bond role playing game and

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Speaker 1: D was literally literally become synonymous with role playing games,

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Speaker 1: and for good reason. Like in nineteen seventy four when

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Speaker 1: Dungeons Dragons came out, there was nothing in the entire

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Speaker 1: world that even remotely resembled it. Yeah, it was super unique,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons why, you know, people

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Speaker 1: always say it's like a nerd game, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you sit in your basement by yourself, and they did

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Speaker 1: have adventures. You're going by yourself. But they pointed out

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Speaker 1: in this article it's a very social game because you

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Speaker 1: would get together with your friends and sit around the

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Speaker 1: table and you could play it straight and just sort

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Speaker 1: of play, or you could start acting things out and

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Speaker 1: doing funny voices and make it more like a dramatic

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Speaker 1: like portrayal of this game. It was really kind of

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Speaker 1: up to you. But it may have a nerdy h connotations,

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Speaker 1: but they're just punch nerds together playing right well. And

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Speaker 1: if you look at some of the recent ads for

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Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons, um in some of the gamers magazines.

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Speaker 1: They are still appealing to that, the fact that it's

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Speaker 1: a social game. They're trying to get people who play

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Speaker 1: World Warcraft like start playing D and D again. Um

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Speaker 1: and and they're they're using taglines like, if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: sit in your basement and pretend you're an elf for

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Speaker 1: hours on and you might as well do it with

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Speaker 1: a group of friends, that's a great so. Um. It

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Speaker 1: has been social from the beginning. And what what guy

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Speaker 1: GaX and Arniston came up with was essentially a book

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Speaker 1: of rules that used dice to advance imaginary characters along. So.

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Speaker 1: And then in seven they released the basic set. That's

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Speaker 1: the red box. That's that's the one that makes us nostalgic, right.

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Speaker 1: And then they also simultaneously released Advanced Dungeons and Dragons,

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Speaker 1: which kind of had stricter rules, it was more eeping

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Speaker 1: in scope. But they both came out in seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Uh. And then in seventy nine, the the

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Speaker 1: d M Guide was introduced. And if you play Dungeons

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Speaker 1: and Dragons in a group, you got to have a

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Speaker 1: someone running the game, and that is the Dungeon Master.

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Speaker 1: That is a person that sits behind a little cardboard

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Speaker 1: screen and hides all of their stories, and they're the

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Speaker 1: ones who create these basically kind of right the game.

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Speaker 1: And like some people will spend hours in days and

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Speaker 1: weeks creating these campaigns in these games for their friends

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Speaker 1: to bring to life as characters. And it's it was

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Speaker 1: definitely unique at the time. So you've got all these additions, right,

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Speaker 1: there's I think ten now they're working on the tenth,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you ask, right, And with every edition

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Speaker 1: of Dungeons and Dragons, there was a m like there's

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Speaker 1: a change. Sometimes they are really big changes. Like they

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Speaker 1: released the second edition of Advance Dungeons and Dragons and

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Speaker 1: like it did away with a lot of like the

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Speaker 1: evil monsters because like d n D had gotten a

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Speaker 1: bad rap wh we'll talk about later um. And there's

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Speaker 1: like a kind of role that you had to figure

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Speaker 1: out how many hit points you lost or how many

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Speaker 1: hit points were UM inflicted. It was just different. And

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Speaker 1: so with every addition, it's been different and different and

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Speaker 1: different um and so you get adherence to different sets,

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Speaker 1: different versions, uh, which has kind of led to this

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Speaker 1: weird fracturing in the Dungeon's Dragons community. Apparently. And you

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Speaker 1: know the grabster at Grabowski, one of the writers of

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Speaker 1: many of the articles that we've talked about. He's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a D and D expert, it turns out, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can go check his stuff out. Agreed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He writes extensively on I O nine dot com about

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Speaker 1: D and D c check out his stuff. He's basically saying, like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: because a big fractured community of dn D players, everybody

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Speaker 1: has their own edition that's their favorite, but everybody still

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Speaker 1: wants to be able to play together. But it's just incompatible.

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Speaker 1: So what he's saying is Wizards of the Coast, to

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Speaker 1: people who made um Magic the Gathering and ultimately bought

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Speaker 1: dn D, they have said, Okay, this fifth edition is

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Speaker 1: going to bring everything together. We'll see about that. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what Grabanowski says. He says, Um, there's no possible

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Speaker 1: way to literally unify the various editions under a single

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Speaker 1: rule set. It would be like trying to build a

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Speaker 1: car that uses parts from a two thousand ten Mustang,

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Speaker 1: a nineteen fifty packard, and a tractor. So he's incredulous.

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Speaker 1: But they have it in like open gaming testing right now.

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Speaker 1: The fifth edition. I don't see what the big deal is.

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the cool things about D

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Speaker 1: and D is that depending on who you play with, uh, like,

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Speaker 1: find your people, you know, like they might want to

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Speaker 1: play a certain edition. I know that some players like

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Speaker 1: to play with the little figurines and some people think

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Speaker 1: that's an abomination. You should only use your imagination. Some

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Speaker 1: people go and make up their own campaigns. Some people

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Speaker 1: stick to campaigns that are in the books. So, like,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a cool thing about it is there's

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Speaker 1: something out there for everybody. Unless you're just not into it. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: then there's nothing for you, nothing for me. Um, So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about how to play. Like, we'll just give

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Speaker 1: a brief primer and we since we're nostalgic for the

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Speaker 1: Red Box, which is the basic set, basic rule book

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Speaker 1: that came out first and seventy um that we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna go with that. Don't yell at us, but it's

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Speaker 1: a very basic, good intro to D n D for

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Speaker 1: all the other people who are listening to this one

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Speaker 1: who don't know what is going on. This is a

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Speaker 1: single episode on D n D, and you could have

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Speaker 1: an entire podcast that's about d n D that you

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Speaker 1: did for five years. You know, I'll bet there are

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Speaker 1: and right in let us know, we'll tweet, we'll tweet

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Speaker 1: about it. Okay. So, like we said, it is a

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Speaker 1: role playing game. So the basic concept is by the way,

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Speaker 1: you can't win. There is know, like endpoint. It's all

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Speaker 1: just about the fun of continuing with these characters you create, right,

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Speaker 1: The only beginning and and really is the creation of

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Speaker 1: a new character and the death of that character. And

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Speaker 1: even still if like that character dies, it sucks depending

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Speaker 1: on how far along your character was, but you can

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Speaker 1: always create another one. So you bother me about it,

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Speaker 1: I think is I was too late, like I would

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Speaker 1: cheat it and just make up characters. Well that's why

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Speaker 1: I was never invited back, you know. And so you

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Speaker 1: were that guy? Huh No, I mean I don't remember

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Speaker 1: if I was. I just remember not getting it and

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Speaker 1: being like, well, my guy's good at all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit someone on fire, all right. So

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Speaker 1: you create your character, and in the red box and

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Speaker 1: the basic set, you have these different attributes and abilities

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Speaker 1: that will come into play as you play the game,

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Speaker 1: and they are strength of course, it's pretty easy. How

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Speaker 1: much you can, how much damage you can inflict with

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Speaker 1: a weapon, Wisdom, how intuitive you are, dexterity, which is

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Speaker 1: good if you're nimb um. It could help you with

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Speaker 1: a weapon or getting in that high window on the

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Speaker 1: second floor, especially like a missile weapon like a bow

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Speaker 1: and arrow or something. If you have a high tex

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Speaker 1: you want to pair that with a bow and arrow.

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Speaker 1: For intelligence, um, how smart they are, how how much

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Speaker 1: they can learn things as a character, constitution which is

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Speaker 1: your stamina, and how much stuff you can carry, how

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Speaker 1: long you can fight. But if you have that bag

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Speaker 1: of holding, you're all set. Uh. And then charisma, which

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Speaker 1: is your likability. So uh, if you want to hook

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Speaker 1: up and make friends or get out of a fight

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Speaker 1: with some bad character, that's when that's going to come

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Speaker 1: into play. And all these are determined by rolls of

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Speaker 1: the diet. Yeah, Like everything we just talked about is

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Speaker 1: represented by a number UM. And then in addition to

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Speaker 1: the armored class of the character, which is a number

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Speaker 1: that represents ay, how easy it is to inflict damage

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Speaker 1: on that character. Uh. And then the number of hit points,

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Speaker 1: which is I guess the representation of um basically how

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Speaker 1: much life you have left to get your health right exactly.

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Speaker 1: In a video game, that would be your health par exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you put all these together and you have a

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Speaker 1: character that, so long as it can stay alive, can

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Speaker 1: go out and go forth into the D and D

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Speaker 1: universe and in adventure indefinitely basically. Uh all right. So

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Speaker 1: there were seven playable characters in the Inn the basic set,

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Speaker 1: and I think I remember being a cleric, but the

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Speaker 1: first one is a fighter, and that's what you think

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Speaker 1: they're They're stronger, and they're better at fighting, and they're

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Speaker 1: probably not as smart or as uh charismatic as like

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Speaker 1: another character might be. It depends. You can have high

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Speaker 1: curuismen like in the D and D um the Basic

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Speaker 1: sets players Manual, the first character they hook you up

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Speaker 1: with has high curuisma and high strength. But strength is

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Speaker 1: the prime requisite for being a fighter. Yeah, okay, so cleric.

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Speaker 1: I think I was a cleric. Uh. That's sort of

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Speaker 1: a fighter in a in a wizard, so that they

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Speaker 1: have good fighting abilities. But they're all so very dexterous

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Speaker 1: and wise, and you can cast spells, which is very important.

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Speaker 1: Right with the difference between a cleric and a magic user,

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Speaker 1: which is the next one, is that a cleric received

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Speaker 1: spells through meditation, so they have to sit around and

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Speaker 1: rest sometimes before they can get a new spell. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they also can turn undead, which means literally turn

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Speaker 1: the undead the other way. So if you have a

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Speaker 1: zombie on your trail, you're it's good to have cleric

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, zombies, turn around zombies. Where they called

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Speaker 1: zombie zombies is one? Where is another? Undead skeletons. I

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Speaker 1: didn't play enough. I don't know any of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I didn't either until I went back and read the

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Speaker 1: entire players manual again the other day. So magic user

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Speaker 1: can do cool things like their balls of lightning and um,

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Speaker 1: learn other spells, learn new spells without meditation. No, it's

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Speaker 1: learning from book learning, which means you have to have

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Speaker 1: the prime requis is a high intelligent score. It's not

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Speaker 1: a meditative thing, right, it's just from learning books. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You have the door worf. Of course, what fantasy game

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Speaker 1: would be complete without it? Four feet tall? Got that beard?

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Speaker 1: Males and females have a beard. Yeah, and uh, and

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Speaker 1: just like in like the Lord of the Rings, they're

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Speaker 1: they're kind of ornery and super strong and have great constitution.

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Speaker 1: And of course they're good fighters because they're a little short,

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Speaker 1: mean boogers. Um, you've got the thief, which you would think. Um,

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Speaker 1: and it took me a long time to figure this

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Speaker 1: one out. To the thief, why would you want to

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Speaker 1: have a thief around the person is going to steal

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Speaker 1: the thief, Well, a thief typically doesn't steal from people

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Speaker 1: they're adventuring with. Um, but they do know how to

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Speaker 1: find secret doors, traps, picklocks, picklocks. Uh. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: they have a very high dexterity score. Yeah, but they're

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Speaker 1: they're also going to turn their back on you in

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Speaker 1: a battle because it depends they're not great fighters. Okay, right,

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Speaker 1: you don't want them near the battle. You want them

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Speaker 1: like kind of off to the side, get out of

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Speaker 1: the way, and let's get the fighter in there. Maybe

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Speaker 1: a dwarf or two as well. But yeah, the thief

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Speaker 1: is just kind of meant to stand back and maybe

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Speaker 1: be like, yeah, get them over there a second to

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Speaker 1: them and just cheer along. Uh, you've got halflings. They

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Speaker 1: are even smaller than the dwarfs. They're only three feet tall,

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Speaker 1: about sixty pounds, and they're demi humans and um, they're

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Speaker 1: dexterous and they have a great constitution. They're tough to

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Speaker 1: hit because they're tiny, and so they're good fighters, the

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Speaker 1: very spry. Yeah. Um. They're also like dwarves and elves,

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Speaker 1: capable of sustaining magic attacks. Um, which leads us to elves.

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Speaker 1: It's another demi human character. And they're a cross between

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Speaker 1: fighters and magic users. So they have high strength and

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Speaker 1: high intelligence. And it's not you don't just say with

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Speaker 1: any of these like, oh I want an elf. So

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Speaker 1: you roll until you have something with high intelligence in

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Speaker 1: high strength. You can you're not supposed to when you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to roll, and come up with your ability scores

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Speaker 1: first and then figure out what you have based on

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Speaker 1: those scores. Yeah, And it is interesting. And one thing

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Speaker 1: I do remember is that it is about the imagination.

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Speaker 1: And even though these these characters exist as a series

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Speaker 1: of numbers on a chart, is all it is. Um,

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Speaker 1: you create them in your mind and that's the fun

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Speaker 1: part about it. And like, I never started acting things

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Speaker 1: out like I've seen other people do, which can go

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Speaker 1: overboard pretty easy. Um. And I guess that was sort

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Speaker 1: of the precursor to what ended up being LARP. Was

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Speaker 1: just sitting around the kitchen table doing accents and things,

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Speaker 1: and some people thought, hey, let's let's go outside and

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Speaker 1: take these broomsticks and actually do this fight. You got

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Speaker 1: you got some cardboard. I'm in the move from making

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Speaker 1: some sorts. Yeah, I'm really an active guy. I think

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Speaker 1: you know, sitting around this table is no good, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you said that everything is represented numerically, and that's

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Speaker 1: absolutely true. Um, except there's one thing that that kind

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Speaker 1: of lends itself to acting, uh or at the very least,

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Speaker 1: decision making of a character in this alignment. And there's

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Speaker 1: three kinds of alignment and basic D and D there's lawful,

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Speaker 1: which is what we would equate with good goods, where

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Speaker 1: if you have a lawful character, they're they're probably the

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Speaker 1: hero type. You're gonna put their own skin on the

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Speaker 1: line in order to save the group. They're certainly not

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Speaker 1: going to turn and run without the rest of the

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Speaker 1: group doing the same. Um. Chaotic is the opposite of that.

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Speaker 1: It's what we would equate with evil. Yeah, they just

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Speaker 1: sort of look out for themselves forget the group. And

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Speaker 1: you'd think that would be the worst one, but apparently

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Speaker 1: the worst is neutral because you can't tell they're just

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Speaker 1: gonna do whatever is best for them no matter what. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's neutral is very it's animalistic um where it's basically

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Speaker 1: just about the survival of of the the individual. And

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Speaker 1: if you have a neutral person, they might fight with

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Speaker 1: the group if they feel like the group's gonna win

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Speaker 1: and just will protect them, or they may just turn

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Speaker 1: and run with Hey, no hard feelings, they got nothing

385
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Speaker 1: against you, But I'm just very instinctual. That's what neutral is.

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Speaker 1: The alignments there are all manner of like shelter and

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Speaker 1: weapons and foods and all these different things you can

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Speaker 1: pick up along the way, uh, and even languages that

389
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Speaker 1: if you approach a character and they don't speak your language,

390
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Speaker 1: then you can't communicate and you have to take a

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00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: different path on your adventure. But everyone can speak at

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Speaker 1: least two uh universal And then alignment tongue. Alignment tongue

393
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Speaker 1: allows you to speak to other characters in that same

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Speaker 1: alignment without the other people knowing what's being said, and

395
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Speaker 1: it's your private little conversation exactly. So, if if both

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Speaker 1: of us were chaotic magic users, right Chuck, yes, and

397
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Speaker 1: there was a somebody playing and there was a fighter

398
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Speaker 1: who was lawful, we could say, hey, let's put a

399
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: charm spell um on this guy and make them do

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Speaker 1: our bidding. Um. And so the player is going to

401
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 1: know what we're doing, but the character wouldn't. Yeah, And

402
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Speaker 1: the person responsible for keeping all this separate you mentioned earlier,

403
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Speaker 1: the dungeon master, the head nerd Right, the dungeon master

404
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 1: is in charge of saying things like you wouldn't know

405
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Speaker 1: that when the fighter says, I want to kill um

406
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: the two magic users who are about to use a

407
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: charm on me, the dungeon master would say, your character

408
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: doesn't know that because they just spoke in their alignment

409
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: tongue and boy. Dungeon master is a specific kind of person.

410
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Speaker 1: It takes a lot of work, and you can get

411
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Speaker 1: as involved as you want to. But no matter which

412
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Speaker 1: way you slice it, if you're the d M, you're

413
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Speaker 1: gonna be putting in some time coming up with these things,

414
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Speaker 1: even stories, even before the beginning, even before you sit down,

415
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Speaker 1: and it's Uh. I'd be curious to find some correlation

416
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Speaker 1: between people that were dungeon masters when they were like

417
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Speaker 1: twelve in the late seventies and early eighties and what

418
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Speaker 1: they ended up doing with their life. Yeah, it would

419
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: be an interesting study because they I would say that

420
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: a lot of them are probably running companies and running

421
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Speaker 1: the show wherever they are, because it takes a great

422
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Speaker 1: deal of initiative and patience and like stamina and creativity

423
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Speaker 1: and all these things to be a great dungeon master,

424
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Speaker 1: plus the sense of justice as well. You have to

425
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: be fair. Oh yeah, I'm sure it doesn't always sit

426
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: well with the group. Um and yeah, like you were saying,

427
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: like they it does take creativity. It takes also a

428
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: total and utter awareness of the game. Like while everybody

429
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: just creating their players, the d M has to show

430
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: up to that very first game having read the player's manual,

431
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: having read the Dungeon Master's Guide, understanding all the rules,

432
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: and then if you're using a game module, which you

433
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: know TSR published tons of games um, which essentially are

434
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: maps of an area that the dungeon master has access to, uh,

435
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 1: and then running the whole game as a whole, like

436
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: understanding what players can do, what players can't do. Um,

437
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: you have to understand how much damage a monster can inflict.

438
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: Let's give an example, like the dungeons Masters's Guide is intimidating. Yeah,

439
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: so I don't know how these kids at twelve, we're

440
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: sitting down and figuring this stuff out well, so they

441
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: a lot of the appearance of omniscience, and any dungeon

442
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: master kind of cultivates this this idea that they are

443
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: all knowing. But like you said, they're hiding behind a

444
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: cardboard screen, and behind that screen is like the dungeon

445
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: Master's guy, the game module, which has everything clearly marked

446
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: and all that. They have everything at their disposal, but

447
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: there's still a revered person, typically the dungeon Master. They're omniscient.

448
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: Because I don't know how many twelve year olds have

449
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: the initiative to take this on. There was I think

450
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: it's about right. It's probably about one out of every

451
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: ten kids as the initiative to beat the dungeon Master,

452
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 1: and the rest just wanted to be characters. So that

453
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: was that was a big problem with the game, was

454
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: like sometimes you couldn't find somebody to the DM because

455
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: there was a lot of work. So let's give an

456
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: example of of play, if you'll indulge me. Okay, So, okay,

457
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: we got a group of characters around a campaign in

458
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: a dungeon and by the way, you know the um

459
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: the reason why it became Dungeons and Dragons, um why

460
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: they chose dungeons was because they didn't want players being

461
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: able to just kind of wander all over the place.

462
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: They wanted to kind of keep them together in small,

463
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: confined spaces and a dungeon or a cave system or

464
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: something like that. It was a pretty good way to

465
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: keep everybody. To get catacombs. Man, it's all about the catacombs.

466
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: So you're your your group of characters are on a campaign,

467
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: the dungeon, and the d M might say something like

468
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: this is in the middle of the game. The d

469
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: M is in charge of telling you what's going on

470
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: where you are, describing your environment. So they he or

471
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: she may say, you're in a long dark cord, or

472
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,959
Speaker 1: you see a faint light at one end. To your

473
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: right is a ten ft by ten ft door. It

474
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: is locked. Do you want to try to pick the

475
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: lock or continue down the cord or towards the toward

476
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: the light. And so the players decide to have the

477
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: thief pick the lock, right, because that's what you do.

478
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: Now here's what I don't get and I don't know

479
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: if you know this is it? Do you get together

480
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: as a group and decide and like take a vote

481
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: or is it someone's turn? To like say no, it's

482
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: my turn, and I make the thief go. It depends.

483
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: So first of all, before on a campaign, you have

484
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: a caller, and that's the person who speaks to the

485
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: d M for the group. But the caller is also

486
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: in charge of saying, hey, what do you guys want

487
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: to do and then saying that to the d M. Okay,

488
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: so they're the just the voice of the group, right.

489
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: They don't make any decisions. The groups supposed to decide

490
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: as a whole um, and the d ms are sitting

491
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: there going little do they know exactly? Uh? And then

492
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: there are turns as well, especially in combat. Now, if

493
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: like you have three fighters and a thief and there's

494
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: suddenly battling um um uh minotaur um, the thief is

495
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: gonna be like I'm standing over here, and the d

496
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: M will leave them out of the turns and then

497
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: will be the thief in the minotaur, and or the

498
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: one fighter in the minotaur and the next fighter in

499
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: the minutear. But blah blah blah, I always just keep

500
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: going on like that. Okay, that makes sense alright, So

501
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: back to our little story. The door is locked. Do

502
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: you want to pick the lock? We decide let's send

503
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: our thief in to pick the lock. Okay, So so

504
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: what happens in the d M, Well, they gotta roll

505
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: the dice and that's how you figure out if things work.

506
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: So if you're a thief, that means you're really good

507
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: at picking locks. So let's say it's a twenty sided

508
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: die and all you gotta do is roll like a

509
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: four or higher to successfully pick it. So that just

510
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: means your chances are really good that you'll be able

511
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: to pick the lock. If you don't have a thief,

512
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: you can send your fighter in to pick the lock,

513
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: but you may have to roll like a sixty or higher.

514
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 1: You would think so, but fighters can't pick locks at all,

515
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: not at all, Okay, they just like bang on the door.

516
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: So only certain characters can, like you can't even try

517
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: if they if they don't have that I believe someone

518
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: basic D and D like only thieves are definitely not fighters.

519
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: So if you don't have a thief in your campaign,

520
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: the d M wouldn't even say do you want to

521
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: pick the lock? They may say do you want to

522
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: try to bust the door down? But the d M

523
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: might also know in the game module it's unbust downable.

524
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: It can only be picked. So so um it is

525
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: because you're rolling for everything and you were saying they

526
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: rolled to find out the thief was successful, and that

527
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: that would be based on that low number, like if

528
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: you just need to roll a four. That's in relation

529
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: to the dexterity score, because it takes high dexterity to

530
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: pick a lock. To the higher dexterity score, the lower

531
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: you have to roll, which gives you, on a twenty

532
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: side of die, a lot more of a chance that

533
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: you're going to be successful at picking the lock. It's

534
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: all rolling of the dice and the rumbers. So in

535
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: this case, the d M knows that on the other

536
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: side of that door is the gelatinous cube, and that

537
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: is bad news if you're playing D and D, which

538
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: if you're an experienced dn D player, that ten ft

539
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: by ten ft door probably would have given it away

540
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: because that's the exact dimensions of a gelatinous cube, which

541
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: is evolved to move through the doors of a dungeon.

542
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: I would be dead so soon. So what happens the

543
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: door opens, there's the gelatinous cube boom, and then you

544
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: got to do battle. And when you're doing battle. You

545
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: do it again by rolling dice and you get these hits.

546
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: You have the hit points that we referenced earlier. And

547
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: let's say you gotta roll all right, these two four

548
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: sided dice. Um, you gotta roll each one once and

549
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: that those will be the the licks that the gins

550
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: gelatinous cube puts on you. And if it totals seven

551
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: or higher than you're dead. Yeah, exactly. And if you

552
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: had depending on your hit points, if you have seven

553
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: hit points, yeah, you'd be dead. So that I mean,

554
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: that's generally the game. And you can get experience points,

555
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: which are huge, which is this it's interesting to know

556
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: experience points. That's what you do to like grow as

557
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: a character, to get more hit points, to become more invincible,

558
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: more to kill a monster and you'll get experience points,

559
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: but you get way more experience points for getting treasure.

560
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: And the authors of the Basic D and D rule

561
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: books point out like this is we want you to

562
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: use your head, right, how do you get around confrontation

563
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: to go find the loot? Right, which, if you battle

564
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: a monster you deserve something, sure, but the point isn't killing.

565
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: The point is is using your head to get around

566
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: problems as well. And that's why you get more for treasure. Yeah,

567
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: we'll look at there. I had a thing I think

568
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: we made it up because I looked it up and

569
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't find it called a bag of plenty, not

570
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: a bag of holding. The bag of holding was you

571
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: could put like anything large in it and still be

572
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: able to carry it. Like I found like all this food,

573
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: and I normally wouldn't be able to carry it. But

574
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: your bag of holding little all that and there? Right?

575
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: Did you have to keey stir it? I don't know

576
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: what that means? Like up the butt? Yeah, you're the

577
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: first person who's ever said up the butt when somebody said,

578
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: keyst what he's supposed to say. Did you just know

579
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: a Keyston would say up the button? Yeah? All right,

580
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: Um no, I wouldn't that key stir it. But I

581
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: had something called a bag of plenty, and you guys

582
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: made that up or I don't remember, man, because I

583
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: didn't find it anywhere. The only thing I found was

584
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: something called a bag of plenty plus one in Balder's Gate,

585
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: which was a video game I had played once. But

586
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: I think those Balder's Gate related to D and D somehow,

587
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: like one of the variations so I didn't know that,

588
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: but well, maybe what we played was with a bag

589
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: of Plenty, which is it would double whatever you put

590
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: in it. So if you have like twenty gold coins,

591
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: you put in your bag of Plenty and you have,

592
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, double that amount. But I think we might

593
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: have made that up because I can't verify that anywhere.

594
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: I wonder how many, um how you just inadvertently admitted

595
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: to playing Baller's Gate, and wonder how many people are

596
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: just like, well, his credibilities out the window. I think

597
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: people enjoyed that. No, I don't know, maybe if I

598
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: vaguely remember it too. It was one of those games

599
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: that I played on like PS two for three months

600
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: until I completed it and then I was done with it.

601
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: You know. So if if any of that even slightly

602
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: piqued your interest, I would strongly recommend going and researching

603
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: and maybe trying out. There's usually, uh, if you go

604
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: on meetup dot com, you can find him probably just

605
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: about any even semi major city of D and D group,

606
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: And apparently Wednesdays are typically days at like comic book

607
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: shops and gaming shops and stuff like that that have

608
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: D and D groups where it's just kind of like, uh,

609
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: anybody who wants to come can can come by and

610
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: try their hand in it. I think they're very open community. Yeah,

611
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: well it depends. Oh sure, Like if you tried to

612
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: come in and like just PLoP down and like, hey,

613
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: I want to join this game that you guys have

614
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: been playing for seven years, and they wouldn't like me,

615
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, I got a bag of plenty,

616
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: That's why they'd be like Balther's gate Um. I did

617
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: try last night to play the online version because I thought,

618
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna give it a whirl. I

619
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: downloaded this Mac beta version that was like eight gigs.

620
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: It took a couple of hours to download, and then

621
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: there was some errandloading and it wouldn't work. I was like,

622
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: all right, well that sucks. Let me go get my

623
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: PC laptop, because you know me, I'm rich. I have

624
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: like eight different kinds of laptops. I know they're like

625
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: falling out of your pocket. So I went to my

626
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: PC laptop and tried to sign up and download the

627
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: PC version, and it wouldn't recognize me. It wouldn't let

628
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: me because I'd already signed up with that name, and

629
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: so it was like midnight, and I said, screw this,

630
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: but I think I might try and play the online

631
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: version just to see what it's like. It's called D

632
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: d O. Yeah, we're not getting into that. It's in

633
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: a whole other thing. But um, there's a good article

634
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: by John that's Strickland on Dungeons and Dragons online that

635
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: you can find on how stuff works. So um, so

636
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: I said, go check it out. And if not, if

637
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: it didn't really pique your interest at the very least,

638
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: I imagine you would be interested to know that for many,

639
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: many years there were a lot of people with a

640
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: lot of voices who considered Dungeons and Dragons to be

641
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: thoroughly satanic. Yeah, and uh, it didn't help that what

642
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: was the year that the guy seventy nine, James Egbert,

643
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: James Dallas Egbert the third he went by Dallas. Yeah,

644
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: this was a kid at Michigan State University and he

645
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: went missing, and they the story out and the one

646
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: that was later disproven, but the one that really got

647
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: around in the news was that he disappeared into the

648
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: tunnel system underneath the school playing D and D and

649
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 1: died doing so. Yeah, he was a sixteen year old

650
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: by the way computer prodigy in seventy nine, so there's

651
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: like not such a thing as computer prodigies. Then he's

652
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: like one of the first. He's at Michigan State and

653
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: he actually did go in the steam tunnels and he

654
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: went to go kill himself to take an overdose on barbituous. Yeah,

655
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: but it didn't work, and he came to in the

656
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: steam tunnels. Yeah. And it had nothing to do with

657
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons, but it was announced so in the news,

658
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: and that's sort of what people remembered at the time,

659
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: and they used that as fuel, of course, to fuel

660
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: the fire of this is an evil game, satanic. They

661
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: made a movie with Tom Hanks, man, do you remember

662
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: seeing that when it first came out as a TV movie? Yeah,

663
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: And and I guess you know, it's just sort of

664
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: loosely told of slightly fictionalized version of James Egbert's uh

665
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: you know, the sensationalized version of the real version. Tom

666
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: Hanks plays the guy who gets so wrapped up in

667
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: his character that he um, he just has a break

668
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: with reality. He disappears because they find him again, but

669
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: he still thinks that he's uh Pardue the Cleric, and

670
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: I call him Pardue the cleric who lives with his

671
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: parents now because they take him back home and he's

672
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: just some crazy dude. Yeah. Um, I don't think any

673
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: there was any better reaction to Dungeons and Dragons than

674
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: Dark Dungeons by Chick Publications. So Chick Publications make religious

675
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: tracks on everything about um. They're extremely fundamentalist christian um.

676
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: And they have tracks on everything from how the new

677
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: Jesuit Pope is in league with the devil to how

678
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: if you are a Mason you are become possessed by

679
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: a heathen god. Um. And they're basically like these easy

680
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: to read comic books you're not familiar I might have

681
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: if I saw one, I might recognize it. So and

682
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: then they publish them and they sell them so you

683
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: can go hand them out and proselytize the people on

684
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: the streets like an ice breaker basically. But Chick Publications

685
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: came up with the not the creme de la creme

686
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: of anti D and D material propaganda. Yes, it's called

687
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: Dark Dungeons and it's a comic strip about a girl

688
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: who becomes who starts playing D and D and then

689
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: as were routed into a real life witchcraft COVID by

690
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: the Dungeon Master, because Dungeons and Dragons is just this

691
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: front for Satanists to like find the best of the

692
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: best to come do the real thing. And one girl

693
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: who becomes so wrapped up in her character. Once her

694
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: character dized, she goes and hangs herself in her room.

695
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: That sounds familiar. I might have been forced to read

696
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: that at some point. Check it out. And as a

697
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I wrote a blog post on these

698
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: and some other ones about how it's called back when

699
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: people thought Dungeons and Dragons was satanic k's on our

700
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: site stuff you should Know dot com and this it was.

701
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: It's really interesting, like there was this period that coincided

702
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: with that whole satanic ritual abuse scare. Yeah, with the

703
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: heavy metal music. Yeah, that got Judics, priests on Landed

704
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: the West, Memphis three in prison. Um, it was a

705
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: real thing. And yes, and Dungeons and Dragons was, if

706
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: not the originator of this huge part of it. It

707
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: was in the center of it for a long time.

708
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: But it came out because thanks in part to the

709
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: um Doge's and Dragons cartoon. Yeah, I had a cartoon.

710
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: They had a movie which wasn't very good. Um, I'm

711
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: surprised I haven't redone that movie. Yeah, so I bet

712
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: they will at some point. I wrote a Time magazine

713
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: article that was saying, like, why is Dungeons and Dragons

714
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: not like a huge franchise. I didn't really get to

715
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: the bottom of They kind of settled on, well, it's

716
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: made a billion dollars for its owners. Um, it's in

717
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: I think a dozen languages. Um. I think twenty million

718
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: people have played it, so it does have a huge following.

719
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: But they were saying like, it's not the Lord of

720
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: the Rings and why not? And I think possibly because

721
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: it's just totally open ended, and it's that's what I think.

722
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: It's the individual Lord of the Rings. You go read

723
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: and there's a story and it happens, and yeah, you're

724
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: kind of imagining it, but you're just imagining what Tolkien

725
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: has explained to you. And guy gangs by the way,

726
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: I thought Tolkien sucked. Yeah he was in a conan sure,

727
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: So um, not O'Brien the barbarian. So Um. With Tolkien,

728
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: you're told with D and D like you man, you're

729
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: totally using your imagination. And even more than that, something

730
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: as strange as a group imagination, a group of people

731
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: using their imaginations together and kind of the interlocks like

732
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: that's high level stuff. Well, it is high level. And

733
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: that's exactly why a movie failed and probably wouldn't not succeed,

734
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: is because for a D and D movie to work,

735
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: you have to satisfy the D and D fans and

736
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: no matter who for a movie, you have to create

737
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: some hero character and that's not going to satisfy all

738
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: D indeed people, no matter who you create and what

739
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: story you create, they're gonna be D and D fans

740
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: that I think. Now, my what, my guy was way

741
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: better than this jump right exactly, And you call that

742
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: a white dragon. White Dragon would never do that because

743
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: it lived in my imagination as this, So I agree.

744
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it will ever happen. It's a great success.

745
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: Although the cartoon was pretty well received. I think it is.

746
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: So it's a classic. Yeah, but that's that's different. It's

747
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: it was nominated for Greatest Cartoon Shows of All Time

748
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: nineteen know by listeners. I I put a list up

749
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: and said if anybody have any other nominees, and on

750
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 1: our website people nominated More and Dungeons and Dragons was one,

751
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: so it's up there. I think Scooby Doo one. Oh,

752
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: of course duck Tails was a hard contender. Yeah, I've

753
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: never watched that. I was surprised. Uh, let's see, you

754
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: got anything else. No, I mean there are dozens of

755
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: offshoots in different games and different modules, and like we

756
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: only covered a very small part of it. Uh, the

757
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: universe is vast. The D and D universe is vast.

758
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: It is Go forth and check it out, you say, we, Uh,

759
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: take up those glasses and check it out. And if

760
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: you if you want to learn more about Dungeons and Dragons,

761
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: type those words into the search part how stuff works

762
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: dot Com and it will bring up some cool stuff. Oh.

763
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: By the way, it has sort of been known as

764
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: like a guy's thing, but there's a rabid female community

765
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: with D and D and I saw I watched the

766
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: documentary last night on Dungeons and Dragons. It was pretty good. Um,

767
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: the Dungeons and Dragons experience. I think you know, there's

768
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: a there's like a pretty serious other documentary that's being

769
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: got kickstarted. Really that's in it's in production right now. Yeah,

770
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: this one was okay, it wasn't great, but it did

771
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: interview a female, a woman, and she was like, yeah,

772
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: you know, I think a lot of girls they see

773
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: it as a guy thing and the guy nerds, so

774
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: they're reluctant to get into it. But the girls that

775
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: I know that I have gotten into it have have

776
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: found that it. You know, it's really not like a

777
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: guy sing after all. They have just as much fun

778
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: and um, it looks I don't know, it's a fun community.

779
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 1: It is funny. They showed them playing the at one point,

780
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: and they definitely get like the dungeon Master is just

781
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: sort of going on and on and the players will

782
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: say things in character like I'm not sure what to

783
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: do after such a long story and stuff like that,

784
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: and uh, they're taking like barbed shots in characters. Pretty funny.

785
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, that's the way to do it, I guess.

786
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: So actually, however, you and your group of friends want

787
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: to do it and have fun doing it, that's the

788
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: way to do it. Yeah, unless it veeers towards satanism

789
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: and like real, but it doesn't. That was all made up.

790
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: I know. Uh, if you want to learn more, didn't

791
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: I already say this thing? Yeah I don't know, Okay,

792
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: so I said search part, which means it's time for

793
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: message break. And now it's a listener mail, right, Josh,

794
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this D and D listener mail for

795
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: D and D podcast. That's a really clumsy title. How

796
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: amazing it is. This is pretty cool. Actually, hey guys,

797
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: a big fan of the podcast. In the TV show,

798
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: I worked for the Ford Motor Company at the Kentucky

799
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: Truck plant in Louisville, and I'm an assembly line worker

800
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: and you can imagine my job gets pretty monotonous. I

801
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: put on passenger side doors on trucks night, on specific trucks.

802
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: He does. He can't just throw any door under a

803
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: new truck. No, it's all very specific. But if you

804
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: own afford super duty and you open your passenger raw

805
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: or you can thank this dude for it. That's true.

806
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: You can thank Jeremy Elmore. Um So, anyway, he's been

807
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: listening for a little while and he's listened to all

808
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: but five of the shows, and uh, he's getting on

809
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: his wife's nerves. We hear this a lot when one

810
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: spouse is sort of annoyed that doesn't listen about the

811
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: other one getting smart. And I think everyone just needs

812
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: to start, you know, taking care of business in the household.

813
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: What what is that mean? Get the other spouse on board,

814
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: get them listening. That way you can circumvent this defense

815
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 1: mechanism of feeling threatened. So that's what his wife does.

816
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, yeah, I know what you learned from

817
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: Chuck and Josh. Look just listen. So he goes on

818
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: to say, the great thing about the show is you

819
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: two are very relatable to me, a couple of years

820
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: younger than Josh. So I love hearing about your childhood

821
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: stories from g I Joe, adolescent chocolating and Dungeon and Dragons,

822
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: going to panic shows, watching Seinfeld, and now marriage. I

823
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: feel like I've grown up with you guys. So I

824
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: want to send you something. My father is where it

825
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: gets good is Larry Elmore. He's a freelance artist who

826
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: used to paint for TSR and D and D. Yeah.

827
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: So like the blog post that you used, that was

828
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: his father's artwork. Yeah, the blog post. I wrote a

829
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 1: blog post on it right on DNDB and S can Yeah,

830
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: and that was like, just by chance, this dude's father.

831
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: His name is Larry Elmore. Like I said, he um,

832
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: Dragon con and D and D have been mentioned on

833
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: your podcast before and it made me want to send

834
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: you something. So he has a twenty years art of

835
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: Art book I can't wait to get. I can't either.

836
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: It came out a decade ago, but it's still really

837
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: cool and I want you both to have one. He's

838
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: a new one coming out in August as well, so

839
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: consider this a plug. I guess um. He has already

840
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: personalized them for me for you guys, and I need

841
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: to know how to get them to you. Is very cool,

842
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: he asked me. This is even cooler because he asked

843
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: who they were for. He explained it to Pops and

844
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: now he is listening to the show in his studio

845
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: while he's that illustrating. So by the time this comes out,

846
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: hopefully Larry Elmore is listening to the podcast about D

847
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: and D. What's Up Larry Elmore? So all that he

848
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: was like one of the first or maybe the first

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00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: artist early on when they did this. He's definitely an

850
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: early one because the illustration that I used from the

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00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: Night three edition of the Basic set Um, so he

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00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: would have Yeah, that's pretty early. Well. I went to

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00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: his website and looked at his art and like all

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00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: those iconic images that I remember we're him. That's really

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00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get It's very cool. So thank

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00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: you Jeremy Elmore in Louisville and Thanky Larry and uh

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00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: that was it. Yeah, thanks to you both. Um, if

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00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: you want to send us something, especially if your dad

859
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: is um an indvertent idol of Chucks in mind agreed, Um,

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00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,360
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