WEBVTT - Joy as an Act of Resistance 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to look f Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.479 me your Girl, Daniel Moody pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.120 you know, during this Pride month, I think that it's 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:28.840 really important one to have conversations about the origination right 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.839 of pride, being a riot, being a pushing back against 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:39.479 police brutality against LGBTQ plus community, but particularly black trans women. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:46.960 And I oftentimes give you the headlines, right we delve 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:52.360 into the headlines which are heartbreaking, which are traumatic, and 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.600 so it is my hope that during this month of Pride, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.280 that we're also having conversations about joy, which is why 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.080 we named and themed along with our friends at GLAD 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.800 the theme of Pride for WOK at this you can't 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.479 ban queer joy, and so I'm really excited to bring 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:17.880 to you this conversation today with kit Yan and Melissa Lee, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:23.120 who are award winning queer Asian American musical theater writing 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:28.840 team based in New York, and they have been using 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:36.560 art and theater and musicals with their stories to talk 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:44.640 about the LGBTQ plus community, but through joy, through dance, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.480 right through characters that have depth, and not through our 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.880 trauma and pain and So Kit and Melissa and I 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.520 get into a really great conversation on this episode about 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.240 the power of art, the necessity of joy as an 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:06.320 act and form of resistance, and talk about their musicals 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:11.000 and their work which is award winning and really just 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.440 joyful and exciting. So I hope that you all enjoy 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:22.080 this episode, folks. I am very excited to welcome to 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:27.760 wokef during our Pride coverage this month, Kit Yan and 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:33.359 Melissa Lee, who are award winning Queer Asian American musical 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.400 theater writing team based in New York City. They are 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.440 the winners of the twenty twenty two ASCAP Harold Adamson 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.760 Lyric Award twenty twenty two. In two thousand and seven, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:50.399 Jonathan Larson grants the twenty twenty one Club CLEBN Prize 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:57.920 and the twenty nineteen This Award, and have their first musical, Interstate, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.040 won Best Lyrics at the twenty eighteen in New York 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:07.040 Music Festival, and their second musical, Misstep, was commissioned by 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.600 the Fifth Avenue Theater's Draft Program, received the twenty nineteen 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:17.079 Divese Award from the Brett Adams and Paul Rice Foundation. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:22.799 So you all are just clearly badass, clearly, clearly everything 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.800 you both touch turns to gold. So let us open 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:33.160 up with talking about your work and why it's important 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.320 in each of the musicals that you have put out 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:42.320 to center the stories of queer folks and diverse people. 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.119 First of all, it's an honor to be here. Thank 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:49.720 you so much for having us and Happy Pride, Happy Pride, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.080 thank you, and we are super excited to chat with 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.480 you today about our musicals. I'll just maybe tell you 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.560 a little bit about them and then Melissa, please we 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.880 can talk a little bit about what they mean to us. Yeah, 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.200 let's see, we have two main musical projects. So the 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.440 kind of writing we do is we work in theater, 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.240 TV and film, and in musical theater specifically. We have 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.440 two musicals. One is called Interstate and it is a 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.000 semi autobiographical musical about two best friends that go on 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.279 the road, a transgender slam poet and a lesbian singer 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.800 songwriter who just want to share their art with the 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.640 country and along the way they inspire Henry, a sixteen 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:34.040 year old South Asian dacy transgender teenager in Kentucky whose family, 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:38.359 community and church do not support him to go to 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.760 see a show of theirs, and that it's loosely based 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.480 on our own lives and journeys, because in two thousand 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.240 and eight we quit our jobs. We both were living 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.960 in Boston performing monthly at a queer Asian drag cabaret 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.920 bar variety show type thing. We quit our jobs. We 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.720 got on the road and we went and did what 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.640 the two characters in Interstate did. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:11.279 Wow, oh way, I love this. 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.560 Okay. We were equipped with a Toyota Corolla Corolla, a 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.039 rice cooker, a hot water boiler, and a hot plate, 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.359 and we just we went to about thirty four or 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:27.120 so states and performed at at venues like coffee shops, cafes, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:32.000 open mics, and then San Francisco Pride was the West 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.119 coast cap of our tour. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.440 Amazing. So wait, let me so let me ask you 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.800 this during your the actual you know tour that you 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.720 guys were on and going into these different states, like 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.680 what were your like did you go into you know, 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.040 the Red States and like were you like how were 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.600 you feeling coming in as you know, as the quote 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.960 unquote other Like what did you have concerns where their fears? 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.440 Like, yeah, that's such a great question. I think when 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.920 we left, we were pretty young, and we were like 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.080 kids said, we're both geminis, and we were like, let's 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.520 just go on tour and like share and like share 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.000 our music and and you know, try to I think 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.800 for us, you know, we you grew up in Hawaii 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.240 and we met in Boston and I grew up in Boston, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:23.960 and we just wanted to break out of our bubble. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.040 We were like, we want to we know there's queer 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:31.120 people that look like us across the country, and we 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.320 want to find them. We want to go perform and 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.040 put together our own tour. So when we did it, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.080 we weren't thinking about those things, to be totally honest, 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.440 I think we were just like, okay, like Ohio, like 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.880 you know, Cincinnati, like where is like the you know, 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.960 the queer youth. Whatever. We'll just play, We'll crash at 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.400 someone's house, you know, We'll we'll go to like a college, 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.560 you know, in Chicago. We went to Appleton, Wisconsin. We 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.600 stayed at someone's house and we played at like Harmony Cafe, 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.440 which is just like a quick cafe there. And we 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.320 talked about this recently because we're doing a bunch of 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.440 rewrites on Interstate and we were actually saying, you know, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.160 like we had a great time on the road, and 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.240 part part partly it was naive day, you know, part 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.520 right right right, we were having a good time. We 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.320 weren't paying attention to any of that, and partially you know, 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.280 sad to say, like the political climate has gotten much 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.200 worse now, like correct words now where if if we 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.000 were going on the road today, Again, we're older now, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.400 so we're more mindful, but also I think we would 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:32.760 have been way more afraid. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.400 Yeah, I'd be a little more concerned just about our safety, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.320 just because like I'm an openly transgender artist and and 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.360 we're both very openly queer. We write stories about queer 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.480 and transgender people of color, and our main characters are 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:52.680 often queer and more often transgender, and so we when 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.200 we used to go on the road, it was like 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.040 a really fun time. But that was like kind of 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.760 pre social media boom, and so it was two thousand 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.679 and eight when we weren't as connected on the internet 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.400 as we are today. Yeah, people, we were doing a 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.200 lot of education in those days. I don't think we 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.360 largely have to explain transgender or queer to most people 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.200 we meet nowadays. In twenty twenty three. But back then 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.680 we identified in those ways and sort of went on 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.040 the road and figured it out collectively. I think I'm 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.080 not even gonna we didn't know what we were doing 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:28.760 back then. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.640 But you know, I think that that is like I think, well, one, 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.080 that's the beauty of youth, right like this, you know, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.160 the idea that like we can just do whatever we 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.960 want and do it right. And I think that that's 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.440 the beauty of being artists too. Is kind of is 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.640 the risk taking. Like you may not have seen it 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.280 as a risk, but like you're saying now, in reflection 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.160 and as you're doing these rewrites, you know, how would 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.599 you move differently? The question that I have for the 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.960 both of you is, you know, from from two thousand 0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:00.720 and eight right to twenty twenty three, as you just 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:06.559 alluded to, the country has seen a real regression in acceptance. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.640 Right like two thousand and eight, we're welcoming and cheering 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:14.360 the first black president, you know, entering into the White House. 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.319 We're thinking that America is quote unquote post racial. We're 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.160 thinking we are part of this you know, Obama coalition, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.440 and look how diverse and open and welcoming, and we're 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.200 watching during this time, you know that the White House 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.160 would turn rainbow, same sex marriage would be past. The 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:35.760 conversations that were happening around the LGBTQ plus community were 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:40.880 largely positive. Right about the winds that were happening fast forward, 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:46.679 we are so fucking far from that place, you know where. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.000 And you said, KIT like that you don't feel like 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:57.080 in twenty twenty three you have to necessarily explain transgender 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:03.160 and explain queer two people. But I'm like, we have 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:11.280 an entire right wing Republican party that is weaponizing people's ignorance, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.160 is what I will say around the transgender community. So 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.920 how do you feel about while thirty percent of people 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.560 in America? And this I remember this because back in 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.120 the beginning of the two thousands, it was at eighteen percent. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.720 Eighteen percent of Americans knew somebody that was transgender. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:32.160 That number has. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:37.640 Now a little more than doubled. Right in twenty twenty three, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.920 it's about at thirty percent, But there are still seventy 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.199 percent of the population that has never had any interaction 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.000 with or knows somebody that is trans So how does 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:52.319 that land for you in terms of how you both 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:57.200 try to create normal narrative normal you know, stories, comedies 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.800 and what have you. How does is what you're sharing 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.360 in your work educate and inform in a way to 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.160 kind of bring people along in this process of trying 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.920 to better understand and in your work you're actually able 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:19.280 to aid in using art and comedy and music to 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.520 be able to aid people in that learning. 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.360 Wow, you know what's so interesting? You have totally just 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.320 opened something in my mind about Interstate specifically and the 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.920 time period that it sits in, because that music call 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.079 is a parallel journey. There is an older transgender person 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.520 who is based on me, the slam poet, going on 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.319 tour to share his identity and figure out his identity 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.680 with the country. And then there's a teenager isolated in 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.760 a bedroom by themselves in the South who sees this 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.280 person and is figuring themselves out and is inspired by 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.480 seeing that art to go on a journey of their own. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.040 And so that's making me think about the fact that 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.000 like two very separate things are happening in our art. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.079 We have never really set out to educate the general 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:13.200 public about any issues or identities, but we know that 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.079 we have a responsibility as artists to people who hear 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.000 our work, even if we don't set out to do 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.439 that necessarily. And so I think what's funny is in 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.319 Interstate that the Dash and Adrian, the main characters of 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.880 the show, they are going out to partially educate the 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.720 world slash share their art and open themselves up to 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.600 that kind of vulnerability. But our art, I think largely 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.280 sits in where Henry is, where it's like we're making 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.280 a lot of work that is sort of like for us, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.480 by us, for us. Yeah, using our own language, using 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:52.360 our own culture, and exploring I guess like that through 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.520 our art. So I guess it's just makes me think 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.760 about in that show that whole thing's happening at the 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:58.160 same time. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:12:59.800 Yeah, I mean there's a couple of things I think, 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.160 Like one Kit, when you said like, yeah, we didn't 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.360 go out to set out to educate, I actually find 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.560 personally the best art is not the kind that people 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.760 go and set out to educate, right. The best kind 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.680 of art that actually ends up educating people is stuff 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.280 that doesn't explicitly do that, right, stuff that's just a 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.520 reflection of the stories or of our lives. Right. And 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.640 I think just to I think just say it, maybe 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.679 a different way that you had said it too, Kit, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.400 is that like it's it's actually for us, our activism 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.800 is around, is around telling and uplifting the stories of 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.160 our communities. That is so needed. Like especially in the theater. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.959 You know, I think we do have some representation. When 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.040 I say we, I mean I'm really talking about trans 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.360 non binary folks. Uh who I'm sis so, but but yeah, 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.240 like I think like there's a lot more in in 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.959 film and TV, and I think, like you know, theater, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.199 particular musical theater too is even more specific, is a 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.240 little bit behind. So so for us, like you know, 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.320 coming from a place of queer joy, coming from a 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.760 place of not trauma, not retelling stories that people have 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.440 already heard is really important. I think the more honest 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.080 we are about us and the stories we want to tell, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.800 the more our communities will feel uplifted. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:16.640 Totally. That's not to say I don't we don't respect education, lectures, book, 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.480 that sort of thing, but they all sort of work 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.240 together in a way. Like we as artists, we a 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.400 lot of times when we set out to create something, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.680 we have more questions and answers. So when we're writing, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.200 we're processing, like what's happening with the characters the story, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.720 what's happening in the world around us. We're certainly not 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:38.760 immune to the state of the world when we're writing 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.280 as well, And that's all sort of like working together 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.880 as a vehicle for us to ask important questions about ourselves, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.040 our community, and about where and the times we're living in. 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.320 Yeah, you know, I think that that's important. I just 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.560 want to touch upon what you said about about queer 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.400 joy because I do. I feel like it is so 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:06.120 necessary to have stories that are uplifting, that are funny, 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.320 that are you know, that are centered in the good 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.560 as opposed to the continued. And again this is not 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.400 to this is not to discredit those who create work 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.600 that is seeped in trauma right in order to show 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.600 society's impact right on individuals or on particular communities. But 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.960 there is something about I just you know, I sit 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.320 in misery all day. I followed the news on a 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.240 regular basis and have created a career around politics, and 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:43.240 so the opportunity to really see joy as part of 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.760 the resistance, right like the whole our whole mantra is 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.160 along with Glad's mantra, is that you can't ban queer joy. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.200 You can ban all of these things, but that it's 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:57.560 important to show trans people, non binary people, queer people. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.760 It's just people live in lives, dance, singing, you know, 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.800 carrying on. And I just, yeah, I I respect that 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.400 that that you said that, because I I do. I 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.880 think that if we just see trans people, particularly as 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.000 just the statistics of what's bad, right of of the 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.320 murder rate of suicide, if I'm only talking about that, 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.000 I still don't believe that I'm really talking about the 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:29.280 entirety of the experience. So how do you Yeah, so, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.160 so how do you all see now? And you only 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.240 talked about your your your one place, so your your 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.120 one musical. So I want to give you the opportunity 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.920 to talk about this step. Let's talk about that, and 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.480 then I want to ask you a question about just 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:50.600 how we're moving, how we're how we can use art, musicals, plays, 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:55.680 theater as kind of escapism from the misery right now 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.000 and your and your thoughts around that. 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.520 Yeah, that's a perfect segue because talking about queer Joy. 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.560 Because the next musical that we've been working on is 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:10.080 called Misstep, and it's an eighties dance aerobics musical featuring 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.960 an all trans lead cast that is like in their thirties, forties, 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:20.399 fifties like, and it's like a twenty person dance cast. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.560 And it's just it's truly is that. And the show 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.639 is essentially it's about Pam, who's like a middle aged 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.960 trans woman who works on the New Jersey Turnpike and 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.600 living a boring, happy life. She calls herself unremarkable and 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.560 essentially her her father, who's a strange of her, passes away. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.159 She has to go home to deal with the funeral, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.720 and when she gets back, she opens a box of 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:47.600 his stuff and realizes that he was an aspiring aerobics competitor, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.040 aspiring champion and never got to compete. And so, in 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.439 in order to an effort to get to know the 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.040 man that she never knew, she assembles a ragtag group 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.600 of trans friends to try to compete in the regional competition. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.480 And so, you know, I think, yeah, and I think 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.280 that's just been such a joyous project to work on, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.479 not just for us, you know, behind the you know 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.719 and behind the stage, and also also the folks on 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.880 stage as well. Getting to embody characters that don't die, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.000 you know, getting to body get that don't you know, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.480 have you know all these other issues that they have. 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.320 In real life, Being trans is not part of the story. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.520 Yeah, and being trans is not the mate. It's not 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.680 something we shy away from. It's very explicit, but it's 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.880 also not really the driving story. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.760 Right. Actually, I want to take that all the way 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.119 to the personal because I think that's really important and 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.160 relevant to this discussion. Is the reason why we wrote 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.720 the show is because Interstate is about eleven years in 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.520 the making. We have been working on that thing since 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:53.879 twenty twelve. Yeah, and doing deep introspective, self reflective work, 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.480 thinking about our lives, thinking about the state of the country, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.920 thinking about queer and trans young people, and really really 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:05.960 diving into those kind of themes and questions. At some point, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.119 like you said earlier, Danielle, you need a You do 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:10.959 need an escape, and you need a break from all 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.119 of that stuff. So my escape when we started writing 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:18.239 Misstep was I was going to step aerobics classes in 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.600 Long Island in the Export Fitness in the basement of 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.680 the Roosevelt Field Mall. And so I was like in 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.960 this basement just doing step aerobics with like mostly women 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:34.080 who were significantly older than I. And that was the 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.560 first time in my entire life that I really felt 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.000 free in my body as a trans person. I was like, oh, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.840 dancing is fun, Like I can dance too. I didn't 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.880 really think I could dance before. I didn't really think 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.240 that movement was something for me. I don't do it well, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.800 but I had a lot of fun doing it. And 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.440 then and so I kept I kept sharing with Melissa 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.640 this joy that I had found within my own body, 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.560 which was like, I love Stubb aerobics and it's so 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.320 fun and everyone should do this, which it's kind of 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.119 a hard sell. It didn't really come back, but I 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.840 loved it. I loved it. I still love it, and 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.240 so that sort of led us to go down this 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.359 path of writing this joyous musical centered around the body. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.320 So in Misstep there are some very deep themes around 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.639 bodies and being trands and women's bodies and impossible beauty 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.920 standards that and trans people in sports, all of these 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.080 things that existed in the eighties and and now. There 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.959 are very very big questions that we had, But the 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:44.640 show itself answers those questions by asking, like, what if 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.879 these this group of people went and found themselves by dancing. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.480 I think that that's so interesting because I think, well, 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.080 I mean, I know, I'm assuming that you chose the 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.560 eighties because that's when step aerobics and like all of 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.439 the video that the you know, the the VHS's and 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.520 all of those you know things, because I know that 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.879 my mother had a step, had a step in the 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.000 house and like had those videos. I remember doing like 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.960 wanting to be like earths and doing it as as 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:13.920 a little kid, and I you know, when I watch 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.919 it now on TikTok videos of people like they're wild 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.600 with it, like it's you know, it's actually really cool 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.160 to see the evolution. How do you see though, like 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.399 those the different discussions and themes that that you brought 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.840 up kit around you know, uh, body dysmorphia around you know, 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.640 your feelings of being in your body as you're as 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.359 you were writing this. Have we shifted in any way 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.960 in terms of how from the eighties, which you you 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.080 know you case this in, have we shifted? Have we grown? 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:50.800 Do you think in our way of how we think 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:57.920 about the body, body images and feeling both for CIS folks, 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.119 particularly women who have to meet these you know or 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:05.240 forced into these unrealistic beauty standards, but then also for 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.040 for trans folks. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:14.800 Yeah, I'm not. I don't really know if I'm I'm 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.120 having a hard time thinking about if and how things 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.800 have changed. I guess things are always changing throughout time. 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.840 When I think about like the impossible beauty standards of 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:32.640 eighties aerobics, it doesn't feel too far from seeing, yeah, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:36.480 seeing people on TikTok and wanting to be like wondering 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.399 how you can be like that, or seeing something on 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.600 TV and thinking like, oh, yeah, maybe I could be 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.720 that that movie star or something like that. But what 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.480 I will say that I have seen is like more 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:54.840 I think because of social media that still exists and 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:58.680 now there are lots of other people sharing their stories 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:02.560 and creating content, and that feels really important in terms 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.919 of just thinking about like who I am and what 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:11.680 I who I could be. It's it's like really heartening 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.880 for me to see lots of trans people on the Internet, 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:19.040 and people of different bodies and different ethnicities and abilities 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:24.359 just sort of like sharing themselves and being seen. And 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:28.960 so I do think that they are certainly more examples 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:35.320 of people different kinds of people out there are. Is 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:40.680 that translating into greater opportunities for stuff that we make 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.320 to be produced. That part is why I said I 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:48.720 don't know, yeah things have changed or not, Because, particularly 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:52.480 in the theater, we write these kind of stories. We're 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:56.240 very true to that. It's a very difficult path. Creating 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:59.119 an original musical is probably the most difficult path in 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:03.120 the theater you could take because it costs the most 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:05.280 amount of money. It takes a lot of people. You 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.480 have to sing, dance and act at the same time. 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:11.280 We're a very specific, trans specific casting yep too. 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:15.240 And so has the world shifted so much so that 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:21.360 we can see those stories on stage right now? No, 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:26.280 But last night at the Tony Awards, two Binery folks 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:33.840 Wantoni Awards, Alex Dwell and Jay Harrison. So I do 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:38.760 think that things are changing on stage behind the scenes, 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:43.719 I haven't felt a giant leap from twenty twelve when 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.840 we started writing musicals together to now. Yeah. 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.360 Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I mean it's you know, on 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.560 one hand, hopeful right in terms of in terms of 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:58.000 the Tonies and that kind of representation. We see more 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.639 representation I think in front of the screens right on 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:06.600 TV and in film, but it's you know, there's still 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.840 a lot of work to be done for those that get, 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.760