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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome back to Katie's

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Speaker 1: Crib Today, I am talking with a mama. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: does she get it? Okay? She is an author, she

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Speaker 1: is an activist. I am talking about Glennan Doyle. You

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Speaker 1: know her from her New York Times bestseller Love Warrior,

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Speaker 1: a memoir about infidelity, betrayal and redemption, and her latest

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Speaker 1: memoir that has been a quarantine sensation called Untamed, addresses

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Speaker 1: the new love and new discoveries that followed. It's intimate,

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Speaker 1: it's inspiring, it is at the absolute top of every

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Speaker 1: bestseller list. There's so much that resonated with me as

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Speaker 1: a woman and as a mother that I was like, please,

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Speaker 1: can we get Glennon Doyle on the podcast? And so

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Speaker 1: we did. You guys. We talked about so many different things.

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Speaker 1: We talked about cream cheese parenting, which you guys will

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Speaker 1: find out what that means. We talk about how to

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Speaker 1: raise a boy as a feminist, and we spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time talking about what her blended family looks like.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited that she is here, you guys. Here

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Speaker 1: she is Glenn and Doyle. I'm honestly, I've had a

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Speaker 1: lot of beautiful guests on this show, and I honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if i've ever God, you must get

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Speaker 1: this all the time. I've I am having an emotional

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Speaker 1: response to you. I'm having an emotional whoa. I'll discuss

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Speaker 1: with my therapist at a later No, I love my therapist.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. I'm just like, very happy to have you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, so on Tame is the Book of

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Speaker 1: Quarantine is What I can say is that what people

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Speaker 1: are saying, people are saying right, oh wild is that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know what to say about that.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm grateful that people are letting me into

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Speaker 1: their lives at such a wild time. Look, the book

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Speaker 1: is absolutely genius. I know it would have a vast

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Speaker 1: wave of response whether we were in quarantine or not.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I think people are so tuned into

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Speaker 1: what everyone else is doing. It's just like wildfire. I

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Speaker 1: mean I saw it everywhere and I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, if you don't have a tamed you are

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Speaker 1: a lose everything. I was like, if you don't get

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Speaker 1: on the untamed train, I mean, you are just not

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Speaker 1: in the know. It's so worthy. I've also never gotten

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Speaker 1: so much cred from my husband. Like usually when I

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Speaker 1: read a book and I want him to sit down

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Speaker 1: and listen to chapters. He's not a big reader, but

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he's wonderful and I love him and

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Speaker 1: he does listen. But when I told him that you

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Speaker 1: were Abby's wife, he listened so much. He was like,

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Speaker 1: Abbie is the greatest athlete that has ever been born.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, have you seen this video of her?

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Speaker 1: Have you seen this video? Like yeah, Like he was like,

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Speaker 1: do you know what Abby is capable of? He was like,

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Speaker 1: this is her wife. I was like, yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: like reading that chapter class. No, it's so funny that

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Speaker 1: you bring that up. I mean, and I swear that

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Speaker 1: she has some kind of like man whisperer energy, Like

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Speaker 1: there's something about her. Well, it's because she I think

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Speaker 1: they all have a respect that she could like kick

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Speaker 1: their ass at at sports or at whatever. But I

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Speaker 1: really we talk about all the time the way that

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Speaker 1: men respond to her compared to like me or It's

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Speaker 1: just it's fascinating, it's great, It's an amazing superpower. It's

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Speaker 1: awesome to watch. I was like, okay, so read this

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Speaker 1: chapter about raising a boy, raised this chapter about raising

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Speaker 1: a girl. Okay, So once I read Untamed, I learned

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Speaker 1: so much more and so many valuable motherhood tools through

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Speaker 1: the book. And I know it's it's about a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. First, can you explain the word untamed? Which

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Speaker 1: is the title? Obviously? Um, I'm sure it's hard to

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Speaker 1: settle on a title for your freaking memoir that best

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Speaker 1: encompasses the whole thing, but I felt like it was

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Speaker 1: probably easy in this case. It was not. It wasn't. I. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have never written a book where I knew the

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Speaker 1: title before. I mean, it was done and dusted, and

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Speaker 1: there were several different titles we were going back and

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Speaker 1: forth with, and I actually had to like rewrite some

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Speaker 1: of it to match with Untamed. It was It was interesting. Yes,

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Speaker 1: someday I'll admit all the other titles that I was considering,

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Speaker 1: but now they seem so terrible that I'm embarrassed to

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Speaker 1: say them. But um, so I wanted, uh a title

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Speaker 1: that suggested that, since there is a process that every

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Speaker 1: individual goes through where we're kind of, you know, we're born,

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Speaker 1: this wild, unique um ball of energies right is our

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Speaker 1: individual self, and then because this is the way it

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Speaker 1: has to be in cultures, we surrender some of that

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Speaker 1: in order to belong right. So we just start learning.

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Speaker 1: And most people will say that this process of sort

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Speaker 1: of losing ourselves in order to fit inside identities or groups.

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Speaker 1: We usually internalize that kind of conditioning between the ages

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Speaker 1: of seven and twelve. Okay, those aren't like hard and fast.

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Speaker 1: But when I say that, people usually women go, I'm

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Speaker 1: literally soaked in sweat, right, soaked in sweat. So the

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Speaker 1: seven to twelve is is it? That's where we formally internalize,

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Speaker 1: Like we start to notice. I mean, certainly from the

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Speaker 1: second we're born, we start to um. You know, we

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Speaker 1: look at our mom's faces and she smiles when we

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Speaker 1: do one thing, and she frowns when we do another thing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're constantly really such a good boy girl,

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Speaker 1: those don't cry, don't do that. It's okay, like all

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Speaker 1: the you know, all of that. So we're taking in queues.

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Speaker 1: But there reaches a certain point where we start to understand,

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm a girl, so I do this. Oh I'm

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Speaker 1: a Doyle, so I do this. Oh I'm a Christian,

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Speaker 1: so I believe this. We survive by um, by belonging. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's an age old um survival strategy. Right. You stay

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Speaker 1: in the herd so you don't get killed off, you

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Speaker 1: don't die, right right, Um. And so, but I just

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Speaker 1: think that now we are reaching a point, we were

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Speaker 1: reaching a point for sure inside of humanity, inside of evolution,

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Speaker 1: where I think our survival is gonna ironically depend on

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Speaker 1: the resistance of that um instinct. Right, we are going

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Speaker 1: to have to actually start separating from the herd a

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Speaker 1: little bit, like we see what happened encouraging people to

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Speaker 1: be individuals or as you say in chapter one there

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Speaker 1: whoever their cheetah is, Yeah, they're inner wild, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're inner wild, which you guys listening um in the

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Speaker 1: first Untamed references this this glorious trip you made to

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Speaker 1: the zoo early on in the book, where you see

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Speaker 1: a cheetah in action and all instinctually the cheetah wants

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Speaker 1: to go and run, except that this cheetah is in

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Speaker 1: a cage. Um. You could probably explain it far more

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Speaker 1: eloquently than I can, That's exactly. And she her name

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Speaker 1: was Tabitha, and she was actually the zookeeper explained to

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Speaker 1: us that she was born in captivity, so she was

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Speaker 1: raised alongside a m labrador, and she was raised alongside

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Speaker 1: that labrador to tame her. And the zookeeper said, so,

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Speaker 1: now that everything that Mini the labrador does, Tabitha wants

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Speaker 1: to do. And we actually watched this labrador chase it

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Speaker 1: was called the cheetah run. So the abit or chased

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Speaker 1: this um little jeep that had a pink, a dirty

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Speaker 1: pink stuffed buddy tie to it, and Tabitha, the cheetah,

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Speaker 1: watched many do it. And then Tabitha, this amazing animal,

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Speaker 1: lined up, the jeep took off, and this animal chased

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Speaker 1: this dirty pink bunny down this well worn path while

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Speaker 1: all these board spectators flapped m hm. And I have

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Speaker 1: never you know, as a writer, like all you're doing

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Speaker 1: is like, where's the thing that I can look at

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Speaker 1: that describes the thing inside that I can't explain of

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Speaker 1: that moment was just like, oh my god, I just thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: of course, if a if a wild, powerful, majestic animal

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Speaker 1: like a cheetah can be tamed into forgetting who she

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Speaker 1: is and chasing dirty pink bunny's her whole life, and

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Speaker 1: so kind a woman right, That's what happens to us.

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Speaker 1: We are told all of these things that we have

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Speaker 1: to chase that will make that we're supposed to make

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Speaker 1: us ha be, and we spend our whole lives chasing them,

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Speaker 1: and that's why we're exhausted and overwhelmed and underwhelmed and

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Speaker 1: unfulfilled and un fulfilled. So how do we as moms

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Speaker 1: raise a cheetah who is untamed? How do we encourage

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Speaker 1: that behavior? I would probably think the first is through modeling.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot on Katie's group, we

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Speaker 1: talk about how much kids learned from their parents. So

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Speaker 1: I think if my son could see me making choices

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Speaker 1: that are authentic to who I am, that's a start. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. I think that's everything as that. Do you

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Speaker 1: ever look back on raising your kids and say, there

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Speaker 1: was that cheetah moment? Or or were you until you've

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Speaker 1: sort of had this awakening, were you sort of fitting

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Speaker 1: in the bill like I'm going to do all the

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Speaker 1: right things that parents do to be the best parents.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is the big one society standards. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I don't know. I feel people often ask me, so,

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Speaker 1: did you what if there was no abbey, would you

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Speaker 1: never have become untamed? Like was that your moment? Was that?

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Speaker 1: And I don't think so. I mean, I think that

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Speaker 1: my i'n dating probably started with my sobriety, right. And

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Speaker 1: then when I think back, you know, when I was

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Speaker 1: raising my kids went up when they were really little,

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Speaker 1: and I was raised in the Catholic Church, and I

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Speaker 1: began taking my children to sort of a fundamentalist type

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Speaker 1: church when they were little, and I remember listening to

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Speaker 1: what was being said and just you know, listening to

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Speaker 1: the indoctrination and a lot of the fear mongering that

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Speaker 1: was happening there. And one day they actually were going

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Speaker 1: to a school that was affiliated with this church, and

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Speaker 1: many things happened, but I just ended up walking into

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Speaker 1: the school and pulling them out of their classrooms one

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Speaker 1: at a time and leading and just being like, we're

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Speaker 1: never coming back, and that that was returning to my

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Speaker 1: wild That was you know, women are just especially want

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Speaker 1: to well, that's it's trusting yourself more than I mean,

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Speaker 1: so much of tragically, so much of fundamentalism in any

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Speaker 1: in any way, whether it's political fundamentalism, whether it's religious fundamentalism,

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Speaker 1: whether it's beauty fundamentalism. Whatever it is is this idea

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Speaker 1: that you cannot trust yourself, right, I mean my religion,

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Speaker 1: My first lesson of religion of God was the hardest wicked.

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Speaker 1: You cannot rely on yourself. Women are dangerous, Like, do

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Speaker 1: not trust your own understanding? Your mind isn't like constant

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Speaker 1: messaging that there is this other, there's this other. Be

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Speaker 1: it this all knowing thing that is outside of yourself

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Speaker 1: and that thing is good and you are bad, and

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Speaker 1: so you have to constantly doubt yourself now other people, right,

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Speaker 1: And and the trickiest part is when it comes to religion,

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Speaker 1: what they are saying is not even it's looking to

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Speaker 1: other people. It's looking to God. It's not it's looking

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Speaker 1: to other people who are telling you what God is.

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Speaker 1: It's not that okay, but it takes a lifetime for

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Speaker 1: those of us who were raised in that two dare

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Speaker 1: to return to ourselves and trust ourselves and consider that like, actually,

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Speaker 1: whatever God is is the deepest thing in here, right,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I have to return to and

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Speaker 1: this is good and this can be trusted. Um, do

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Speaker 1: you think it takes a while to build that you

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Speaker 1: talked about in your book, But that knowing that guttural,

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Speaker 1: instinctual knowing. Um, I've struggled. I'm a people pleaser. I'm

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Speaker 1: a good girl through and through. You say in your book,

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Speaker 1: I think that happens that you're twelve, That happened for

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Speaker 1: you done, And I wasn't really raised religiously. My parents

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Speaker 1: are New Yorkers. They're pretty outside the box thinkers and

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Speaker 1: job holders is as far as the norm is concerned.

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Speaker 1: But I I just always want people to feel good

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Speaker 1: and liked and I feel that in respond and that's

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Speaker 1: just who I am. And I have to say motherhood

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Speaker 1: has been the biggest wrench in that because my son

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Speaker 1: very early on was the hitter on the ground and

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Speaker 1: I was given I was given that kid, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I'm the one on the

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Speaker 1: park that the moms are judging. I'm the ones that

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Speaker 1: the moms are pulling their kids away because they think

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Speaker 1: my kid is bad. They think I'm bad and doing

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Speaker 1: a bad job. I mean, it was horrible. I mean

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Speaker 1: I just feel like motherhood, if you look at it

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Speaker 1: in the face, can really You're given these gifts of

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Speaker 1: the ship that you have to sort out. Um, and

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Speaker 1: he is providing that. Thank you, kid, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's only gonna get way worse. I mean, he literally

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Speaker 1: gives zero f about what people think, and I give

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Speaker 1: all the f's. So it's a really nice combo. Um.

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Speaker 1: Figure out the eternal question is do I love my

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Speaker 1: kid more than I love the world's approval of me?

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Speaker 1: Which is, like you would think that'd be an easy answer,

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Speaker 1: but for women it is. Well, it's weird because I

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Speaker 1: know the answer here in the quiet of my closet

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Speaker 1: recording with you. Obviously it's my son. But when I'm

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Speaker 1: out there in the world and the stairs are coming

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Speaker 1: and I see myself putting this fake ass smile on

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Speaker 1: myself and apologizing profusely, when I'm taking out of the

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Speaker 1: situation for him, hitting, I know the things to say,

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Speaker 1: like we're working through, you know, like I stand my

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Speaker 1: own ground, you know, And all of a sudden, I

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Speaker 1: turned into my twelve year old like I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 1: Like please don't hate me, Like don't tell anyone. I'm

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Speaker 1: a good girl. I'm nice. I swear I played by

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Speaker 1: soci I'm not like him, and I've really I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm working on it, um. And that's an untaped you know,

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Speaker 1: that's I'm trying, um to get stronger there. Um, you

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Speaker 1: do have chapters in your book about you've been raising

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Speaker 1: your daughters as feminists since they came out, and talk

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Speaker 1: to me about that, and then talk to me about

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Speaker 1: the chapter when you realize you turned the TV and

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Speaker 1: there's all this stuff about boys and hazing and gang

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Speaker 1: rape on the cross teams and mass shootings, and you

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Speaker 1: look at your son and you're like, what do I do?

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Speaker 1: Tell me about a son too, damn it. Um. I

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Speaker 1: was a child who got very sick, very early from

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Speaker 1: the messages in the air about what girls are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be, like Kimberliemick. When I was ten, Um, I

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Speaker 1: just had big feelings. I had big confusion, I had

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Speaker 1: big anger, I had big doubt. And I was told

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Speaker 1: that girls are supposed to be small, girls supposed to

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Speaker 1: be happy, girls are supposed to be you know, pleasant

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Speaker 1: and pretty and all of these things. And um, and

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Speaker 1: I was pleasant and pretty until I was ten, and

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Speaker 1: then ship hit the fan and I didn't know how

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Speaker 1: to be simple and quiet and happy and perfect anymore

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Speaker 1: because I started to become fully human. But since we

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Speaker 1: don't teach anybody as a child how to deal with

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Speaker 1: being fully human. Right, we don't talk about pain in

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Speaker 1: our culture. We don't talk about how to deal with anger,

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Speaker 1: about how to deal with grief, about how to deal

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Speaker 1: with envy and loss and all of that. I just

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Speaker 1: thought there was something really wrong with me, um, and

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Speaker 1: so I started numbing and hiding inside of food, and

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Speaker 1: that turned into every addiction. And so you know when

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Speaker 1: I had when I found that I was pregnant with

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Speaker 1: little girls, I just was like hell bent on making

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Speaker 1: sure they had examples of women who were just complicated

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Speaker 1: and fully human and loud and successful and failure and

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Speaker 1: obnoxious and all the things right, um, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: I was over the top. I mean I had little

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Speaker 1: earphones on my belly with like NPR and just Ruth

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Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg ship. Like I just was like it can't hurt, right, scanner,

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Speaker 1: the I done so much damage to like my organs,

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Speaker 1: like I just need to give them a head start

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Speaker 1: somewhere else, right, like maybe cerebralery or something so um

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Speaker 1: so And it worked, man, I mean you know even

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Speaker 1: in like every time someone called them bossy, I would

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Speaker 1: be like, yes, isn't she a good leader? Yes, she

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Speaker 1: is a good leader. And like every time that vocabulary counts.

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Speaker 1: Those words pounds. Absolutely. My little girl let a revolt

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Speaker 1: at her school because she got her jersey for soccer

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Speaker 1: and said lady panthers and you would have thought that

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Speaker 1: someone had shot her. And like she she was very

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Speaker 1: serious about it. Yeah, and were you so proud? Girl?

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, I haven't told anyone this.

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Speaker 1: I was just like emailing talk about cream cheese, helipoped

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Speaker 1: her mom. I was emailing the coach, like you do it,

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Speaker 1: I'll pay for it, just just if there's any problem.

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Speaker 1: I just want her. I want her first activism to work,

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Speaker 1: to work so that she can wait explain to us.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into the boy things like a cream cheese parent,

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Speaker 1: which I also am. What what Glennon means is there's

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Speaker 1: a chapter in a book about you know, you're the

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Speaker 1: mom who has to bring the snacks. Let's say it's

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Speaker 1: bagel and cream cheese, and you get the call. Well,

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Speaker 1: we can't just have one type of cream cheese. We

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Speaker 1: need to have six different kinds of cream cheese. We

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Speaker 1: need to have different flavors. We need dairy free, we

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Speaker 1: need to have soy free, we need and basically because

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Speaker 1: of this style of helicopter over indulgent, insane amount of choices,

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Speaker 1: giving them the best options we can at all times.

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Speaker 1: It's basically creating little assholes. They're awesome. I'm like, there,

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Speaker 1: I am so guilty of that because it's how I

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Speaker 1: think we are supposed to show love. I know, because

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Speaker 1: that's what we were trying to believe. Ye, right, it

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Speaker 1: is not our fault. We got the memo that we

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Speaker 1: our job as parents is to hover, obsess, protect them

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Speaker 1: from any kind of pain. Ever, like these children. They

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Speaker 1: handed us these children, and the memo was, take this

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Speaker 1: child home and let nothing ever happen to it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: make sure that this kind never failed. They never feel pain.

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Speaker 1: They go to No one's allowed to frown in their

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Speaker 1: general direction, no teacher is allowed to do anything but

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Speaker 1: worship them. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. And it's

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Speaker 1: why our kids suck, because because people who do not

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Speaker 1: suck are people who have lost and learned how to

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Speaker 1: lose with dignity. Right. People who do not suck are

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Speaker 1: people who have actually felt the sting of pain, because

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Speaker 1: then they feel empathy for other people and so they

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Speaker 1: become not assholes. Right, So we are like the memo

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Speaker 1: we got is causing us to steal from our children

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Speaker 1: the one thing that will allow them to become the

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Speaker 1: people that we dreamed abby. Right, we got a really

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Speaker 1: bad memo. And then and then the other part of

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Speaker 1: our memo was like, make sure that they have the

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Speaker 1: best of everything that you are capable of providing them, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: And this is what happened. One of my kids was

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Speaker 1: doing a sport and I finally answered the email. Who

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Speaker 1: I was, like the last one on the list to

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Speaker 1: show up to bring the breakfast or something that the

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Speaker 1: woman asked me to bring five tubs of cream cheese.

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Speaker 1: It comes from a good place like that mother thinks

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Speaker 1: that she's mothering the hell out of her children. But

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Speaker 1: five tubs of cream cheese is not how to make

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Speaker 1: a child feel loved. It's how to turn a child

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Speaker 1: into an ass white like that, because who on earth

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Speaker 1: needs five flavors? No one, no one, no one. So

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Speaker 1: tell me about when you realized your son had already

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Speaker 1: he was older, and you turned on the TV and

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Speaker 1: you see all of this awful darkness. I remember being

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Speaker 1: pregnant with my son and being in the airport and

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Speaker 1: my husband gasping, and I said, what And he said, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my god, a young boy just was killed because of

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Speaker 1: hazing in a fraternity. I thought about all the things

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Speaker 1: my brother did growing up, like all the things he

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Speaker 1: thought he had to do, you know, and I just

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Speaker 1: started sobbing for my son and how scared I was

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Speaker 1: for his safety, but also feeling like that's the culture

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Speaker 1: he has to tame himself to be a part of.

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Speaker 1: When you realize that of your own son, what did

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Speaker 1: you do? Well? I panicked at first, because I have

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Speaker 1: spent my whole entire motherhood life, you know, whispering in

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Speaker 1: the girl's ear in a million different ways. You can

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Speaker 1: be bold and loud and imperfect and certain and ambitious

364
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Speaker 1: and still be a woman, right. But I just realized

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Speaker 1: I had not been whispering into Chase's ear since he

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Speaker 1: was born. You can be uncertain and vulnerable and weak

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Speaker 1: and sad and still be a boy, right. I a feminist.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the fight. I know that women get screwed, okay.

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Speaker 1: I know that we have a lot a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways to go with equality and justice. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: trade places with a man for all the money in

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Speaker 1: the world. When I there's something about like being in

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Speaker 1: the same sex marriage now, which has changed my relationship

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Speaker 1: with men. I don't know if like it's like the

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Speaker 1: dynamic of any sort of sexual tension is gone. So

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Speaker 1: it's like I feel like men are talking to me

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Speaker 1: for the first time, just like humans who you're human. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've always been afraid of voice, honestly, like, I've never

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Speaker 1: really related to men. I haven't known how to talk

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Speaker 1: to men. It's fastening to me with Abby the way

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Speaker 1: that she like approaches a man and he becomes sort

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Speaker 1: of fully human with her that because there's no there's nothing,

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Speaker 1: there's no posturing, right right, um, And so that's what's

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Speaker 1: starting to happen with me. I think they're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: she's or we're all safe here, like nothing sure, sure,

386
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: so sure. When I'm what happens when everyone stops posturing

387
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Speaker 1: in in every way, not just gender wise, but every way,

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Speaker 1: is that you start to see people's full humanity. Right.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think that I've ever really seen a

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Speaker 1: male's full humanity because there's always been the gender posturing

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Speaker 1: going on on my part. And they're right, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm you're telling me the story, and I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: one of my best friends in the entire world. Is

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00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: Gear Moo Diaz from a scandal. He's gay. He's been

395
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Speaker 1: with his boyfriend for a very long time, and it

396
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: was the greatest sexual relationship on a television show I've

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Speaker 1: ever had the pleasure of being a part of. Now

398
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: that's gone. When you have sex scenes with straight men

399
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: is very complicated and odd and the whole thing. I mean, look,

400
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: it's all uncomfortable and it all sucks. But the great

401
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: news is for seven years, most of them, I had

402
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Speaker 1: a lot of sex scenes with the gay dude. My

403
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: husband was stoked. Carol's my best friend. It was like,

404
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: and he's my soul mate. And that's my experience of

405
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: that sort of a situation where it's like, oh, we're

406
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: never like this is not anything ever, like this is

407
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: weirdness that it's terrifying possibility. Yes, it's like even it's

408
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: always there, like even with your best friends, whoever, because

409
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,479
Speaker 1: then you're worried, am I being weird? Are they if

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00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: it's okay? Am I sitting too close? Like? Absolutely, it's

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Speaker 1: always there. So now that I've gotten beyond that, I'm

412
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: just like on the on the other team, right, sure,

413
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: I am able to speak to men and I my

414
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: heart breaks in a million pieces when I actually internalize

415
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Speaker 1: the obvious, which is that men are as fully human

416
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Speaker 1: and emotionally complicated and as we are. That sounds so simple.

417
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: I'm like they are. I'm literally you sure well I

418
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Speaker 1: And we definitely want to raise our sons to be right.

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Speaker 1: And if they're not, okay, if they're not, it's it's

420
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: been conditioned and beaten out of them, right like it is.

421
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: It is a very archaic and dangerous position to take

422
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Speaker 1: that we are born different, we are born fully human,

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Speaker 1: and then we are tamed. Right, little girls are tamed

424
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: in a million different ways that you have to be quiet,

425
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: you have to be commendating, you have to be pleasing,

426
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: you have to be pretty, you have to be and

427
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: boys are taught you cannot be vulnerable, do not cry,

428
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: do not be tender with each other, don't be that,

429
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: don't be gay, that's gay or that's you know. My

430
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: little boys at my house they are talk about not

431
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: knowing their audience. They will sit down next to a

432
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 1: boy and go no, homo, right in front of me. Down.

433
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is absolutely crazy. I mean, was

434
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: it too late when you realize this? No, no, never

435
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: too late. And also you know, he has a fully

436
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: human father who's like extremely vulnerable and emotional, and he

437
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: has a mother who's like real emotional, right exactly, So,

438
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: but it was past time to start naming it. Like

439
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: with my little girls, all the time, a commercial will

440
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: come on TV, a billboard would be on this, and

441
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: I would always turn them towards it and say, girls,

442
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: what is that advertiser trying to tell you about what

443
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: it means to be a woman? Because that is that

444
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: is to me, pointing and making very very clear. The

445
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: invisible messages is what you have to do, because otherwise

446
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: it just starts to seep in, like it's like osmosis. Right,

447
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: So without they have to become really clear about who's

448
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: lying to them and how. Right. So my girls will say,

449
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: if they're trying to say that all bodies are thin

450
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: and tall and white and blonde and a blah bla

451
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: blah blah. Right, So now I double time had to

452
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: start doing that with Chase. I mean, listen the story

453
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: I put in the book. All you have to do,

454
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: if you want to know what I'm talking about is

455
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: go into your own child's shower and look at the

456
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: ship you've been buying them. I walked into my kids shower.

457
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: My daughter's bottles are all lined up on one side,

458
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Chase's bottles are on the other side. All of Chase's

459
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: bottles are big, bulky red white and blue chuggy bottles

460
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: of soap and shampoo. Okay, red white and blue, because

461
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: patriotism and toxic masculinity are always tied together, like listen

462
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: in America. But all the bottles said things like one

463
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: of them actually said slam body like a folding chair.

464
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: And then the girls, of course, they were all metallic

465
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: like an angel lod. Yeah, like not even no verbs,

466
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: like nothing to do on the girl's side, just a

467
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 1: bunch of disconnected whiskey words to be right. So, in

468
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: other words, the boys side is saying, yeah, the boy's

469
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: side is saying, you become a man by conquering, and

470
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: the girl's side is saying you become a woman by

471
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: being worthy of being conquered. That's it, right, So that

472
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: is the way that we shan't we caame our children

473
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: out of their full humanity before they even leave the

474
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: shower in the morning. Right. This is not um high

475
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: minded stuff. It's stuff that's right around us every single day.

476
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: So you know, little boys, they are teamed in opposite

477
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: ways and girls are. Um. But what it all comes

478
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: down to is misogyny, right, because if you look at

479
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: the ways that the boys are shamed, all of the

480
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: ways in one way or another, say, you'd be anything

481
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: but feminine. M you'd be anything but soft and merciful

482
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: and kind and connected and vulnerable. You'd be anything but

483
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: those things we attribute to women. Right. So, at the

484
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: heart of toxic masculinity and at the heart of toxic

485
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: femininity is both misogyny. Um. So you know, anybody, regardless

486
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: of whether you've been using these particular language with your

487
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: sons and daughters, if you've been teaching by modeling, by

488
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: living equality and respect for women, then you have been

489
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: underground doing child from being pained, you've been doing the work.

490
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: You've been just cool to start putting the overt language

491
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: on top of it so your kids can see well,

492
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: because yeah, and also so that they're not so unaware

493
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: of how it's everywhere. I mean, I wouldn't even think

494
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: to go in the shower and look. I can't wait,

495
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: that's like the first thing I'm doing. I need to

496
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: like go and look. I mean, my stuff is pretty hippie,

497
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping that it's like, oh, you might say,

498
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm hoping, I'm hoping the hippie stuff is safe, but

499
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: you never know. But I'm going to look at the

500
00:29:51,960 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: hippie stuff for sure. Can you tell me about something

501
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: else that I definitely struggle from? And I learned so

502
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: much from your book, So basically we've learned this so far.

503
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm tamed. I'm a cream cheese parent, and I'll tell

504
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: you I'm also the martyr. And I loved in your book.

505
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: You So there's this concept that women martyr themselves for

506
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: their kids, meaning like, I'm going to stay in something

507
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: that makes me not how happy, or I'm going to

508
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: do something that isn't for me over and over and

509
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: again because it's with the best for my kids. Right,

510
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put my kids first, which means I put

511
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: myself last. I went back to work when Albie was

512
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: eight weeks old, and it was already a big disaster

513
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: because my mom was a stay at home mom. So

514
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: that has been conditioned to me that that's the best

515
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: way to be and that's the only way to be.

516
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: And even though she was in my ear saying no,

517
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: she was in my ear, saying up, like, let me

518
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: tell you something she said I wouldn't. She was like,

519
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad with the choice I made, and I love you.

520
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: You know she she is responsible for the choice she made,

521
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: separate of me entirely. But she was like, please, don't

522
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: feel bad, go to work. And so I started to

523
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: try to use language with my son like I'm going

524
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,719
Speaker 1: to work now, and I'm I love my job, and

525
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: I really hope someday you get to go to a

526
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: job that you love, and then I love coming home

527
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: and seeing you like how great whatever. Um, you did

528
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: this in the biggest degree maybe you can do, which

529
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: is you were in a unfulfilling, messed up marriage. Um.

530
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: Are those the right words to use? Yes, I think

531
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: that's fair. A long time with the with the father

532
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: of your children, who I want to talk to because

533
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: he also sounds wonderful. Um, in how you work as

534
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: a blended family. Um, And you fell in love with

535
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: a woman, and instead of making the choice which I

536
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: think I would made, which was I can't have this,

537
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay in my marriage or the thing

538
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: you heard when you were growing up, like I'm going

539
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: to stay in this marriage at least till the kids

540
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: go to college, because then I will have done my job.

541
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: You did not make that choice. You made the choice.

542
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm not martyring myself and my life for my children.

543
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: My children I've raised to be strong enough to show

544
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: that if I'm happy in the choices I make, that

545
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: they can swatch that. And how the hell did you

546
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: do that? Like, well, how did you do that? Um?

547
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: How did you explain to them that you were leaving

548
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: their dad, that you were leaving their dad for a woman,

549
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: that you were in love with a woman, that you

550
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: were going to make this Some people would say selfish

551
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: choice for yourself. Yeah, I mean I guess, Well, here's

552
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: the deal. I almost didn't. I almost didn't because even

553
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: though I knew that, you know how you just deep

554
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: down no things. And I just, deep down knew that

555
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: the marriage I was in was not the truest life

556
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: for me. UM. I knew down deep that I was,

557
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life, truly in love

558
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: with another human being. UM, and that it was probably

559
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: had to do with parts of myself that I had

560
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: never acknowledged. Also just had to do with Abby individually.

561
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: It had to do with the time in my life.

562
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I was forty two. I finally stopped caring

563
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: more about what the world thought about me than what

564
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: I really wanted. You know, It's kind of like when

565
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: you figure out, oh, there's not going to be two

566
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: of these lives. Um. It was not like, Okay, do

567
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: I love Abby or do I stay with Craig. It

568
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: was like do I abandon myself again? It was about

569
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: me and my one wild and preshious life. Like it

570
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: was about here's the moment, Like, here's the moment where

571
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: I decide, do I choose the truth of me? Or

572
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: do I choose not rocking the boat right? Do I

573
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: abandon myself or do I just dare to abandon everyone

574
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: else's expectations of me? And what I do in this

575
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: moment will determine whether I live or don't. Um. And

576
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how dramatic it feels for everyone.

577
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if it also had to do a sexuality,

578
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: but I doubt it. I doubt it. I bet that's

579
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: how it feels for everybody when they're when they're making

580
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: that decision about one way or the other, and one

581
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: means everybody else stays steady, but you slowly die, and

582
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: the other one means right, and the other one means

583
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: ship hits the fan with everybody else and you cause

584
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: so much pain and drama, but you live, right. Um,

585
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: the good news is the one I just mentioned everybody

586
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: also lives. Okay, the first one you slowly done? Yeah,

587
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: Like that sucks well. As women, we have literally we've

588
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: been taime to believe that that is an okay price

589
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: to pay. I'm like thinking about Meryl Streep and Bridges

590
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: of Madison County. She's losing the love of her life

591
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: and the life she could happen, but then asks her children, oh,

592
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: just bury me with this other guy, and then her

593
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: children that's the first time they find out. Look, that's

594
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 1: like a totally but I e. Everything into movies and television,

595
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why it's insane. I imagined that moment.

596
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: I used to lay in bed and imagine my E

597
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: think Bridges of Madison County moment like I would I

598
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: imagine being eight years old and being like, wow, I

599
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: didn't do it, Like imagining Abbey somewhere and being like,

600
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. I didn't take my one chance.

601
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: Like so, so, so here's the deal. Here's the one,

602
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: and even knowing all of that, I thought, I can't,

603
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't, I just can't. We just I

604
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: don't give a ship the boat. I don't care. I

605
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 1: have learned to rock the boat. It was the children

606
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: as mothers. We It's just it was so ingrained to me. No,

607
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: a mother does not hurt her children, and mother does

608
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: not hurt her children. And then one day it was

609
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: braiding tissues hair and I just had this freaking epiphany

610
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: that I am still so grateful for, which was, oh,

611
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: I am staying in this marriage for my little girl.

612
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: But what I want this marriage for my little girl?

613
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: And if I would not want this marriage for her,

614
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: then why am I modeling bad love and calling that

615
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: good mothering? Why am I using my daughter as an

616
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: excuse not to be brave with my life? Right? And

617
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: because we know better, we know better, We know that

618
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: our children will only allow themselves to live as fully

619
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: as we allow ourselves to live. And so the call

620
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: of motherhood has to be not settling for any relationship,

621
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: any institution, any situation that is less true and beautiful

622
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: than the one we would want our child to choose.

623
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: That's example. I don't know why this got so messed up. Well,

624
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: because of course we know why I got so my steps,

625
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: because the job of patriarchy is to scare us into

626
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: disappearing inside every role we have. Right, I wonder who

627
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 1: taught us that as mothers we should slowly die instead

628
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: of teach our children how to bravely live. Right, that's

629
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: the poison that's been in the air since the beginning.

630
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: That's the untaming, Right, It's the examining of all of

631
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: these poison roots that have been planted beneath us, and

632
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: the tearing out of all of them so that we

633
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: can plant different routes that are our own beliefs, that

634
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: will allow us to grow as fully and tall and

635
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: beautifully and bravely as we were meant to, and that

636
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: won't team our children. Because that's what I would have done.

637
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: I would have in the name of my child, I

638
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: would have martyred myself and then passed that legacy onto her.

639
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: And then one day she would have been faced with

640
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: the moment where she would decide whether she was going

641
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: to let herself live and rock the boat or rock

642
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: the boat, and she would have let herself slowly die,

643
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: because that was her mother taught her. Absolutely tell me

644
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: about when you had when you told them, Was it

645
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: just you and Craig there were were you so nervous?

646
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: Did they cry? Did you tell them all at the

647
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: same time? Did you not bring in the abbey of

648
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: it until was it first? Let's talk about that, Dad

649
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: and I are separating. How did it look? Because I

650
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: think this is very like you know, we've had a

651
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: lot of We've had a lot of different families on

652
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: Katie's crib, for sure, but I love I don't think

653
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: we've really talked to somebody who's like, this is how

654
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: I did it? Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I um,

655
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: I need to tell you that I was certain that

656
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: as a words person and in the emotions person, that

657
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: I was just going to figure out all the right

658
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: words and way to say this thing, and it was

659
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: going to be the most beautiful, perfect divorced conversation that

660
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: ever happened, and everyone was going to just actually be okay, Katie,

661
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: they were just actually gonna be okay, Okay. No one

662
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: was okay. It was a total nightmare. There are no

663
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: right words, there's no good way to do it. It was,

664
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: without a doubt, the most heartbreaking moment of my life,

665
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: and I've had many, many dizzies and this was the

666
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: worst of it. Like I could, I could start crying

667
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: right now thinking about I mean, I was the I

668
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: used to tell my kids. I remember when Tish was

669
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: little and she'd come home and tell me about her

670
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: friend's parents getting divorced, and I would look right in

671
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: her eyes and promise her that her parents were never

672
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: getting divorced. I did that ship, you know. I used

673
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: to lie to her all the time. I used to

674
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: tell her, your parents would never get divorced, like, yes,

675
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: I know, Heaven is real, Yes, God Sam to all

676
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: this bullshit, you know, um And so I don't know.

677
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: It was just like the moment where they lost the

678
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: solid ground beneath their feet, right it they lost part

679
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: of the innocence of childhood. There's no other way to

680
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: put it. In is absolutely freaking brutal. I mean they

681
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: also I knew the truth for the first time, which

682
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: is actually, there is no solid ground, and nobody's in control,

683
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: and nobody knows what's coming next. And all we know

684
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: is that what family is is that we will all

685
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: keep showing up. That's all we can promise you is

686
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: that we will all keep showing up right so um,

687
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: so I wish that I could tell you some magical

688
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember saying one good thing out of

689
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: all of my fifty good things that I was going

690
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: to say. I remember saying, Okay, you know, we've taught

691
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: you that we always want you to tell the truth

692
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: about who you are, even when even if it hurts us,

693
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: even if it makes people uncomfortable. And now I'm about

694
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: to show you how that's done, because it's going to

695
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: hurt you, and it's going to make you uncomfortable, and

696
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: we are all going to get through it together. So

697
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: I remember like nailing that heart um and then and

698
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: then the rest was just so painful and so sad.

699
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: There's no other way to describe it, Like there's no

700
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: there's no way to Did you wait a while before

701
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: you introduced Abby? Was she? It was very very slow,

702
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: like we that was a whole year long process where

703
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: she moved down to Naples. She would come for like

704
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, we'd meet out. We you know, we we

705
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: had like whole systems and whole process these and and similarly,

706
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: what is it always understood? Like I love this Craig

707
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: lives like a mile away he's very involved in the

708
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: kids lives. Oh yeah, you guys co parents, Like nobody's business.

709
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: Was that always the understanding, Like Craig was always like,

710
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: oh okay, like we aren't married anymore, but we are

711
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: both obviously still very much parents of these three children,

712
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be very involved in their lives. Oh,

713
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: I mean Craig is there would be no doubt, Like,

714
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: there's no he's as much a parent to them, is up,

715
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: Like it would be unthinkable for him not to be here.

716
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: I love so much. Was marriage wasn't working? Not because

717
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't an amazing dad. He's an amazing dad. Oh

718
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: my god, you guys just weren't an amazing relationships. And

719
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: we got married. He would say the exact same thing

720
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: if you were here, Like, we we got married because

721
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: it was the right thing to do, not because we

722
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: were the right ones for each other. I was pregnant,

723
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: I was I'd been sober for four seconds, Like we

724
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: were just doing what we thought was the right thing,

725
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: and and we were all time. How long were you

726
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 1: guys married? Oh, Chase's seventeen, so we got married eight

727
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: teen years ago. Um yeah, And and he just there

728
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: was all kinds of painting with Craig in the beginning,

729
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: to you know, I mean, that wasn't easy in the beginning.

730
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, to have your kids like watch your

731
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: husband pack up and like move out, Like that's just

732
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: so dramatic to me. I like, aunt, even I don't know,

733
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's just so brave of you because the

734
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: whole time you have to go through this, Like now

735
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: you're on the other side, right, You're happily married, You're

736
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: in a loving relationship. Craig is a co parent to

737
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: the max. Like this is working. It's not only just working,

738
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: like everything everybody's truly, with every bone in my body,

739
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: know that there is no such thing as one way liberation.

740
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: Like when people are in a bad situation, one of

741
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: them is slowly dying inside. The other one is never

742
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: having the calm of their life. Okay, they might not

743
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: yet be able to admit that the relationship they're in

744
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: is broken and not working, and they might fight it

745
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: in the beginning, but eventually you get the moment. I mean,

746
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 1: when Craig wrote me a letter, it was like, thank

747
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: you so much for breaking all of our hearts. We'll

748
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: never forget. It was of my birthday cards, Like he

749
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: is happy now he has a girlfriend who wants she

750
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: wants to make out with him. Okay, like and also

751
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: tell me about having another Look, Okay, you already have

752
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: a mother figure now in Abby, tell me about a

753
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: third women walking around in this life? Like, were any

754
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: of those lower emotions present? Were you protective of your children?

755
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: So I just nailed it all the way? Cool, I

756
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: was easy, breezy, I was like, come on, no, I

757
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: was not. I was so disappointed in myself in the

758
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: beginning because I had such a hard time. I mean,

759
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: I think I got like I would give my I

760
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: felt like a B minus is what I would say,

761
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: because I I feel like I always handled it. Abby

762
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: is the only one who ever saw my inner feelings. Okay,

763
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: but there's this thing happen that happens where so Craig

764
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: when Abby came into the family, like he was getting

765
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: used to the kids having another mom. Okay, he didn't

766
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: deal with the kids having another dad. Okay, I had

767
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: to deal with another mob that was not of my choosing. Okay,

768
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: and prs. You know it was harder, isn't She was amazing, fantastic, wonderful, kind, smart, loving,

769
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: like so good to the kids, like there was nothing

770
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: for me to hold on to. Okay, um no, all

771
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: of those things huge blessing, huge blessing. But in the

772
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: beginning it was hard. And I will tell you the

773
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: way it comes out is in these little moments when

774
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: so when Craig and his girlfriend would drop the kids off,

775
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: they'd be in the foyer. We would all be hanging

776
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: out doing the awkward circle, like where we're all laughing

777
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: too much and like we're all just trying to talk

778
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: too much and make it more awkward and do all

779
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: the things. Um, I'm like hysterically laughing for no reason.

780
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: You wouldn't even know the size grin I would have

781
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: on my face and while sweating profusely too. There's no

782
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: situation that I can't up the awkward. Okay, A becalls

783
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: it my superpower, Like if things are awkward, oh not yet,

784
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: just give me a minute. So this thing would happen,

785
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: which is that she would start playing with the girl's hair. Okay, listen,

786
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: I don't know why the hair made me want to

787
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: stab everyone in the house, but it did. It was

788
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: something something primal about another woman touching my kids here.

789
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: And so here's the thing. Thank God, I am conscious

790
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: enough to understand that none of these feelings were her problems,

791
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: like I am through thirty years of fair kay wiseness

792
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: to know that these were my problems, right. And I

793
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: remember being on the phone with Craig trying to make

794
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: them his problems one time and saying something like, I

795
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: just think that it's going too fast and we just

796
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: don't have enough boundaries, and I'm just afraid she's gonna leave,

797
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: and um, the kids are going to be heartbroken. But

798
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: as I'm saying it, that wasn't true. That wasn't my fear.

799
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't afraid she was going to leave. I was

800
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: afraid she was going to stay sure, and my kids

801
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: were going to love her. Right. So the reason I

802
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: tell these stories is just because the fact is that

803
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: no no matter how anybody acts like they're blended, family

804
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: went so smoothly and everybody was kumbaya the whole time.

805
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: That's not how it works. A lot of hard feelings

806
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: come up, and it is an exercise in trying to

807
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: be wise enough to know that most of the feelings

808
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: that come up have everything to do with how fiercely

809
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: everyone loves the freaking child and have nothing to do

810
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: with the other person, right, Yeah, they're all your own.

811
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah Yeah. What I would say is that a million

812
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: times a day I have to remind myself. I still

813
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: have so many hard moments, Like once a week I

814
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: walked past the foyer and all the kid's bags are

815
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: lined up with all their little shoes. It's just like,

816
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: if there's one image of divorce with kids that is

817
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: like it's just packing up. It's like it brings up everything.

818
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: It's like kids shouldn't have to do this, Like what

819
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: this wasn't the original plan. Um. But the one thing

820
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: that blended families have to remind themselves over and over

821
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: again is that things can be hard and still be

822
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: exactly right. Right, It's not correct, it's not uh necessary

823
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: every time something feels painful and hard to think, oh

824
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: my god, it was a mistake, it's because there's not

825
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: There's not a bone in my body or a hair

826
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: on my head. There's not a bone in Craig's body,

827
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: or Albus body, or any of our children's bodies that

828
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: thinks that any of this was a mistake. Everybody in

829
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: this family knows that our family is fixed now. But

830
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: this is exactly how we were meant to be, and

831
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: it's also hard sometimes and you just you just have

832
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: to live with that both. We can do hard things.

833
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: We can do hard things people. It's like I I

834
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: have to say that constantly in this pandemic. I mean, good, lord,

835
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: do your third grade teacher right, you are legit a

836
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: f y guys. We're just this is extenuating circumstances and

837
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: we have to remind ourselves that we can, like Lennon

838
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: Doyle says, finished strong mm hmm, nobody and finish yes, yes, okay,

839
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: listen to me. Listen to me Katie's crib community, and

840
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 1: listen good okay, listen. I when I taught pre school,

841
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: I used to spend all FFing night making forty million

842
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: freaking projects for my kids because I loved them so

843
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: much and I wanted them to have fun all day okay,

844
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: and be up until two in the morning making these

845
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: damp things. The children would go home with their parents

846
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: and the parents would say to the children, what did

847
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: you do today? And the children would say nothing, Okay,

848
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: that's what this A little assholes would say, here's what

849
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: I learned every time because I did my homework. Sometimes

850
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: the children would remember the last thing we did as

851
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: a class, the most brilliant children in every class. We'll

852
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: remember the first thing you do and the last thing

853
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: you do. Okay, that is it I am telling you. Okay.

854
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: So here's what I tell to the parents, especially during

855
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: the pandemic. You start strong, and you finish strong. All right,

856
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: you after breakfast, read them a freaking story. And I'm

857
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: not talking pinterest strong. Just like just some attention and time.

858
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: There's something they want to do for fifteen minutes, like

859
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: look at their face. That's all I mean. Okay, look,

860
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: read a book, do something. Then quick seven hour TV

861
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: show okay I cannot Yeah, just quick seven hours. If

862
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: you feel like you must have some instruction during that

863
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: seven hours, you can mute the TV, turn on close caption.

864
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: There's your reading lesson. Okay. That's for the extra moms

865
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 1: who feel like they need that little kick accolade. And

866
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: then at the end of the day, you finish strong, okay,

867
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: before dinner, after dinner or whatever, you get out a

868
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: little board game. You do the thing for fifteen twenty minutes.

869
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 1: Everybody goes to bed happy. Nobody remembers the messy middle. Okay,

870
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: we just finished strong, and for the rest of the

871
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: day we give ourselves a little bit of peace, because um,

872
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: that's all anybody needs right now. Okay, I could not

873
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: agree more. We got to take the pressure off moms.

874
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: We've got to take the pressure off. It's too much.

875
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: It's too much. You can't have a full time job

876
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: and be a full time mom and be a full

877
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: time teacher and keep your sanity. Yeah, it's teaching is

878
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: a whole thing that people, I mean, don't get me

879
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: started on this. With the teachers. We go to college

880
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: for this. We study in lots of classes, we learn

881
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: how to teach children. It's a degree we get. Okay,

882
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: you can't just all of a sudden decide to tell

883
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: parents they have to homeschool their kids. That's like saying, okay, now,

884
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: real quick, we're gonna home surgery. All social, unrealistic and painful.

885
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: And I have so many friends struggling with this right now,

886
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: and it's just not the guys. This is such a

887
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: crazy time. And I'm so thankful for you writing this

888
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: book and taking the time to come on Katie's Crib.

889
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: Please give my whole family your love. I know I

890
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: don't know them, but it's what you have. You have

891
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: that quality it's like we feel like we do. It's

892
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: like we feel like we do and it's wonderful. Um,

893
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: thank you Glenn and Doyle, thank you every bye. Thank

894
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: you all so much for listening to Katie's Crib. I

895
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: would love to hear more from you. Questions, comments, thoughts.

896
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: You know where to find me. My email is Katie's

897
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: Crib at Shonda land dot com. Bye. Katie's Crib is

898
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: a production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership with I

899
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from shondalian Audio, visit the

900
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

901
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows them I Want You, Want You,

902
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: I Want You