WEBVTT - The Fire Pit w/ Matt Ginella: Becoming Coore & Crenshaw [PART 1] 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.439 The best way I know how to describe Ben Crenshaw 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.880 is simply say, look at our company name. Tell me 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:17.360 one other major championship winner with an unknown golf course 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:22.599 architect who would form a partnership and call it by 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:23.920 the other guy's name first. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.840 It didn't happen. It wouldn't happen, so. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.640 He has every right to be up first. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:35.120 I followed Bill. I'm gladly followed Bill. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:46.480 With another log on the five nobody is getting tied. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.720 This is the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.880 The sixth episode of The fire Pit is part one 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.040 of the people, places and things that had an influence 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:05.000 on what Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw have become as architects, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.960 How and when they met, who was involved, and why 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.720 it works. We start with suecoor Bill's wife. 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:14.680 I say, Ben Crenshaw. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.800 You say, because that is my connection with Ben. But 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.240 I really think of Bill and Ben as brothers. I 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.760 swear they came from the same mother because they are 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:32.000 so similar in temperament, They're so similar in graciousness they are. 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.280 They don't pay attention to things together. They pay attention 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.679 to things together, and I think they make each other better. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.720 Next, we hear from Julie Crenshaw, Ben's wife. 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:43.520 I say Bill. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.520 Coore and you say genius. 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:51.800 Reminded me a lot of Ben. Very quiet, very polite, 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.920 soft spoken. I can see why they have a lot 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.640 in common. They are kindred spirits. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:01:59.400 I can tell you. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.320 That in this era of golf course architecture, I believe 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.760 Core and Crenshaw are the most consistent and thoughtful builders 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.280 of the fun and fair adventure we seek. As avid amateurs, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.640 they move very little dirt and yet extract so much 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.760 soul from the land that they leave behind. I've been 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.600 fortunate enough to chronicle the development of almost half of 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:28.160 their portfolio. I've heard them preach restraint, celebrate strategy, and 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.840 I've watched them walk raw land in search of the 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.680 ideal routing. Bill is always out front, while Ben tends 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.880 to fall behind, stopping on occasion to ask questions and 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:43.519 flush out the options. As they build their thirtieth course 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.840 in their thirty fifth year of being partners. Their body 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.600 of work includes sand Hills, Friar's Head, and Colorado Golf Club. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.840 Some of my favorites are Lost Farm, Caboc Cliffs, and 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.000 Bandon Trails. Some of their restoration work on Iconic ves 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:05.239 includes Cyprus Point Seminal and of course Pinehurst Number two, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.480 the Sheep Ranch, the sixth course at Bandon Dune's and 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.840 their third for Mike Kaiser's Oregon Resort, opens on June first. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.079 Julie and Sue will be used throughout this episode, as 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.760 well as Rod Whitman, a longtime associate of core In 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.079 Crenshaw who has almost ten courses to his credit, one 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.160 of which is Cabot Links in Nova Scotia. We also 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.280 hear from Scottie Sayers, Crenshaw's childhood friend and the one 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:38.480 who makes sure this partnership is also a business. Did 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.080 you ever think you'd be getting together on Skype to 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.480 have a conversation reflecting on your career and the beginning 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.920 of what has become core In Crenshaw. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:53.360 Rat. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.920 If it weren't for Julie and my wife Sue, we 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:58.600 wouldn't be here today. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.720 I'll tell you that Julie Crenshaw confirms. 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.520 They're like brothers. They how they think they both don't 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:06.080 have emails. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:06.760 You know that. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.440 You can get them to call, you can't get them 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.560 to text, but. 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.560 They do it the old school way. Everything about them 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:16.640 is old school. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.080 Bill Corr was an only child raised by a single 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.360 mom who worked multiple jobs to support the family and 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.440 any of young William's dreams and aspirations. Sue Corr shares 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:30.320 some perspective. 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.440 I think that he had the most amazing mama on 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.560 the planet. She just encouraged him to be the best 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.279 at whatever whatever he wanted. He came home and said 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.719 he wanted to be an astronaut, she'd support that be 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.440 the best that you could be whatever he wanted to be. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.839 I'm just sorry that I never met her, because she 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.640 raised an incredible man. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.239 As for designing backyard golf holes, if his mom was home, 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.599 he told me the routing tended to go around the house. 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:07.360 If she wasn't home, he often went over the house. 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:09.560 Well, at you're right. 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.560 I grew up out in rural North Carolina and my 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.200 next door neighbor played golf and he introduced me to it, 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.800 and there he was really the only close neighbors. So 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.840 we would play around through the our backyard to his. 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.680 Backyard, to the mailbox, and out across the dirt road 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.479 where we lived, and even in through the corn fields 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.600 when they were cloud under, so we'd make up our 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.920 own holes and things but I would caddy for him 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:40.760 and on some very special occasion he would go to Pinehurst. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.320 So he is the one who introduced me to Pinehurst. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.240 And then later when I was in high school and 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:46.640 then of. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.200 Course in college, I'd go there a far more regular basis, 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.200 But at they were fun times and there were, you know, 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.440 the cornerstone of what I my introduction to golf and 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.599 my introduction to what interesting golf architecture was all about. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.720 Sue Corp shares some perspective. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.279 Bill wasn't raised with a father, and his parents were 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.080 divorced when Bill was quite young, and there were lots 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.359 of men who took over that position and really cared 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.840 for Bill and really nurtured Bill. And his mother was 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.720 smart enough and confidence enough to encourage all of that. 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.440 As for Ben Crenshaw, he grew up at Austin, Texas, 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.000 navigating Lyons Municipal and the old Austin Country Club, which 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.400 was a Perry Maxwell design. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:42.200 The places where I was playing started me on kind 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.559 of thinking about golf courses. One of my first sort 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.080 of road trips was Brackenridge Park in San Antonio to 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.400 play in the Texas State Junior. It's an old tillinghas 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.480 course very tight. I mean there were a couple of 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.920 holes there you had to thread the needle big on trees. 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.560 But it started me thinking about different golf holes. And 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.080 then when I started traveling, I said, yeah, I've been 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.520 treated to some wonderful examples. So I just always I 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.400 was always kind of fascinated about golf courses and how 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.400 they were laid out. And then when I went to 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.000 Boston when I was sixteen to play in the National 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.720 Junior at the country Club, it. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:26.960 Just blew my mind. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.320 I wanted to know who built the courses, who was 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:36.960 and you know, the organization's history of the game, the players. 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.000 I just from then on, I just started studying everything 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:40.680 I could find. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.080 Although Bill Core was intrigued by the concept of golf 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:50.360 course designed, it was Pete Due who inspired more digging. 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.720 I knew I like certain courses and certain yeah things, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.720 and I tried to figure out why, but I really 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.200 wasn't that much into it. And when I saw what 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.120 Pete was doing, a little public course called O Call 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.040 in high Point, I just said, gee, this is different. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.240 I wonder how you do this? And I was I 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.600 was about to get out of the army. I was single. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.560 I didn't need any more money. Fortunately, working for Pete, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:19.640 you weren't going to make much. 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:25.120 But whatever it took to you know, I took myself alive, 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.040 and so yeah, that's how you get to that that. 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.120 I began to basically just badger Pete. I thought I'd 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.360 like to see how this is done. And in the 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.280 beginning it was with the intention I'd just like to 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.240 see how you actually create one of these things. And 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.400 I was always thinking after that, I'll go back to 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:46.240 graduate school. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.079 Well obviously that didn't happen either, but. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.040 It's for my whole My whole career has been a 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:58.480 very circuitous, almost in so many ways, unplanned journey. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.720 As for meetings, Jack Nicholas at the nineteen seventy one 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.400 US Open and Marion ben Crenshaw had what you'd call 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.199 a spontaneous plant. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.360 I was changing my shoes in the locker room and 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.080 somehow Jack walked in by himself, and I said, oh 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:15.120 my god, here's my chance. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:16.680 I've got to go got to go meet. 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.400 Himself, following him upstairs, and it was a restroom up there, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.080 so I said, oh god, I got him there. So 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.040 I went to the rest so I stuck out my hand, 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.880 I said, Jack, and John he said, well, I'll I'll 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:33.679 leave with him just. 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.200 So. But that was my first meeting with Jack. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.360 I admired the way he played everything else, but I 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.160 knew at that point he was just starting to get 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:53.760 into golf course architecture. So I thought, well, that's that's 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.720 pretty neat right there. And he ironically, you know, he 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:04.560 worked with Pete Died at Harbortown, although minimally there. Yeah, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.480 and then he sort of knew that he was he 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:17.280 could do both jobs as a obviously world class golfer 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.840 and then obviously pursue architecture too, and he had a 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.720 true love and passion for it. But Jack was you know, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.160 that's a lot to take on in a career business 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.480 wise and playing. But they seemed to juggle it, like 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:35.800 Arnold Palmer did too. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.280 After chasing down Pete Die a few times in the 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.080 early seventies, Bill was watching the local news which reported 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.040 Die was going to be building the Cardinal in Greensboro, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.720 North Carolina, not far from where Bill lived. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.040 They were talking about that Pete Die was going to 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.240 be in town. They were going to start this golf course. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.040 Still I'm thinking he didn't even call me, you. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:01.679 Know, tell me anyway, drive out there and he's with 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:05.000 a guy named John Gray who was Pete's construction form 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.640 in there and associate and he just finally time sun 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:10.640 for this guy to do. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.640 He just wanted to get rid of me and Matt. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.600 I started with a pair of hip waiters and a chainsaw. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.760 Well, Ben Crenshaw was having success on the course. Core 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.400 was going course to course with Pete and Roy died, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.560 which is how he ended up in Huntsville, Texas. Is 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.680 water would the course that Pete kind of left you 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.160 at and said, you know you'd be the superintendent here? 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:34.480 Is that? 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:42.360 Yeah, Matt, that's a very kind way of putting it. 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:44.200 He got rid of you. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.280 Peache sent me to work with his brother Roy, supposedly 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.080 to help Gary grand Staff, who was the golf course superintendent, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.920 and work for Roy to help Gary. 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.400 Uh Spanish water with National Well. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.200 In Huntsville, Bill met Ron Whitman, who was a Canadian 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.920 going to school at sam Houston State. Bill quickly became 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:07.360 a mentor and a friend. 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.080 Well, I didn't have any money, so Bill always bought 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:15.040 the pizza and uh, I mean we played golf. I 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.160 just got to hanging out with him on the weekends 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.320 at Waterwood, and you know, Bill was out there seven 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.439 days a week, and uh, you know, over time we 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.600 just got to play a little golf together and then 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.280 and hang out and and I just loved being around him, 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.520 and he would talk about golf course design, and you know, 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.640 I was just trying to play golf at that time. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.640 I had no aspirations to become an architect, but the 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.960 subject fascinated me, and he was very passionate about it. 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.719 So that's uh. He has some old books that I 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.280 could start to read and some notes that he'd made 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.720 when he worked for Pete, and uh, I became fascinated 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.800 with the subject. And then certainly just talking with Bill, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.000 it was, uh, it was inspired, daring to think about 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.600 the old courses and golf course design in general, which 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.600 I had never you know, paid much attention to. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.240 Now in the early eighties, still in Huntsville, Bill gets 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.840 a call from Pete Die He needed a guy in 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.320 Austin and he needed him. 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:17.840 Now. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.000 We were out doing some work, I think on the 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.760 Ninth Green and he got a call from from Pete. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.240 Pete wanted somebody to go to Austin. And you know, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.839 as he said later, dump trucks, you know, was to 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.360 watch the dump trucks dump and tell him where to 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.200 dump and that sort of thing. He took the phone call, 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.160 came back out and asked me if I wanted to 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.480 go to work with Pete. And I just was the 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.839 damn nervous. I could hardly talk. And after a little 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:50.040 bit I certainly agreed to it, and he made the arrangements, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.920 had to rent me a car, and I and I 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.080 you know, drove out to Austin that day. It will 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:57.400 all happened very fast. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.240 So Rod is now working for Pete Dye. Bill had 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.240 worked for Pete Dye, and Ben was keeping an eye 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:07.360 on Pete Die. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.280 You know, when I was saying in Austin at the 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.240 Austin Country Club, Pete would come to town and then 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.959 you know, he would have visitors. I mean, Tom Kite 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.560 would come out there and Ben Crenshaw would come out there, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.400 and you know, they'd walk around and try to hang 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.960 out with Pete a little bit and just watch him work. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.040 And so when he did come out there, I mean, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.200 obviously I got a chance to meet him because I 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.640 was part of that entourage. And you know, Pete told me, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.600 he says, you know Ben's coming out here. He says, 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.920 just just listen to him and do whatever he wants. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.760 He said, So it was sort of an interesting time. 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:52.840 I was told by Rod Whitman was Pete De's foreman, 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.120 and I'd gotten to meet Rod, and I'm really interested 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.040 in what he was doing. I saw Pete many times. 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.200 They both made and he said, you know what, you 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.120 need to meet Bill Kourr. You need you need to 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.880 meet Bill Kurr. I really think that you'd like him. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.280 I would go back and forth to Huntsville every now 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.160 and then and talk with Bill, and I told him 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.320 that I'd met Ben, and I thought, man, this guy 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.400 is just a really nice guy. He's really cool guy. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.400 He's interested in designing, and uh, you know, I just 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.800 I just know that talking to Bill that I mentioned that, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.200 you know, it would be nice if he if he 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:32.040 met him. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.320 The seeds had been planted, but before they met. A 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.320 man named Dave Kerry helps get Bill his big break 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.200 down on the Gulf Coast of Texas, four hours south 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:41.960 of Huntsville. 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.400 He said, look, we've known each other now for a 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.720 two years. He said, I know you're the superintendent here, 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.400 by I know, really what you'd like to do is 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.760 be in the golf course design business. He said, this 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.240 may be the chance, and he took me down Rockport 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.720 Hendry Club, mentioning enough was it in the middle of 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:05.040 building their first nine holes, and for some reason, I've 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.080 never known what happened, but there were some as they 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:12.440 say in Texas, are falling out between the owners and 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.440 the golf course architect. And so they just dismissed him 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.400 on the spot. But here they are, they're digging lakes, 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.800 they're doing they're working in this nine holes and they've 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:27.160 got no one in charge of their design. I guess 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.800 Dave Carriacter water with you this. He takes me down there, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:34.680 introduces me, and so they're on the spot. They say, well, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.440 you're supposed to know something about this. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:37.680 We need somebody. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.920 This is the maximum you can spend and if you 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.720 want the job, you got to and figure it out. 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:43.400 And it's yours. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.200 I guess I was so naive, and so, as they say, 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.960 walked into the deep end of the pool paddle around again. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.640 Even with his raw talent and ambition for architecture, Bill 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.120 cor couldn't go it alone. He called upon Jerry Clark 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:03.480 aka Screwed, who had been helping him with coursework at Waterwood. 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.359 And so when Rockport came along, I said, Screage, you 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:08.600 want you want to go? 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.360 You want to go? Let me and try it, see 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.920 if we can make some of this. Yeah, but I'll 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.760 go with you. And so we the two of us. 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.720 Go down there and and we we start working on it. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.080 Said basically, just two of us start with. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.600 And then another guy who lived there named Mike McKay 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.199 who ended up working with Ben and May for years, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:31.920 and it actually became the nucleus or the cornerstone now 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.600 of you the guys that we have today because Jerry 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:41.240 Clark and Mike McKay trained like jimbo right and and 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.520 Dave Accent and these guys who have now gone on 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.879 to train all these other guys. So you can trace 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.720 it right back to that. But yeah, we we finished 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.199 the nine holes in Rockport. It turned out, you know, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.720 they thought it was good. We actually did a second 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.720 nine holes there immediately after. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:17:59.800 So it was eighteen. 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.800 The guys and I were kind of tiptoeing along, but 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.000 we were I guess, I guess you could say we 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.160 were officially in the golf course design builds. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.439 I asked Rod Whitman for his thoughts on Rockport, the 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.560 first original Billcorp design. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.920 I loved Rockport. It was a great little setting in 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.359 a small town. And yeah, every day you get up, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.520 you just want to play golf and it was a 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.400 lot of fun. I could see where anybody looking at it, 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.240 knowing that it was new, to say, man, that's pretty classic. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.880 Rockport was good enough to get that team some attention, 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.679 but according to several potential clients, they were missing something. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:47.880 One most memorable story, at least to me, happened in Houston, 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.760 Texas with the man who was a very successful real 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.280 estate golfers had a nice, beautiful office and I guess 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.680 what at the time was the tallest building in Houston. 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.520 He goes Bill. He said, I've seen your golf course 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:09.240 in Rockport. It's really good. He said, it's really good. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.840 He said, but nobody's ever heard of you. Nobody knows 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:18.840 who you are. This business is about selling real estate. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.200 This is not so much about golf. 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:26.560 If you walk in here tomorrow with Lay Trevenue on 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:31.800 your arm, or Tom Watson or you know somebody like that, 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.560 he said, I'll hire you until then, and he walked 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.320 me over to the window of his high rise office. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:40.639 We looked down on the street. 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.360 He said, until then, until I can walk down there 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.280 on that street and call out your name and people 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.840 stop to look around to see where you are, you 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:51.800 don't get hired. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.760 So well, I don't do that. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.360 And I said, I just haven't really felt like I said, job, 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:01.240 we got another job. 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.919 We hopefully we'll get another one. I don't know. I 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:05.880 just it's just not. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.959 Something i'd really given much thought to. He said, well, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.800 if you did, who would it be? 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:13.760 You just referred to it Matt. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.719 Ben had just won the Masters nineteen eighty four, and 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.640 this probably was happening maybe the month. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.920 After that. But I didn't know Ben. 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.800 But I just I'd read the articles in the magazines 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.400 where Ben's talking about golf and golf architecture. I just said, well, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.320 I guess I guess there were gonna be anybody be 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:39.600 Ben Crunchaw. The guy looked at me and he just goes, God, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.679 a mighty bill, he said, I know Ben. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.080 He said, he was a romantic and naive as you are. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.919 A few guys together would be his master. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.200 So then along comes Charlie Belair, another wealthy Texas businessman 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.280 who had some land on the Gulf Coast. He wanted 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.520 to have Bill cor And again a well known player, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.240 take a look, and although he still didn't know him, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.640 Bill floated the idea of Ben Crenshaw again. But Bill's 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.800 first visit to that land was by himself. As for 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.840 his first impressions of the potential project. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.480 Mad it wasn't gonna happen. It's just one of the 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:26.960 worst sites you'd ever see. 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.119 It went underwater, salt water, so, I mean, it wasn't 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:31.840 gonna happen. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.880 Bill had seen enough and he left town. 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.399 Charlie calls me back and he says, Bill, can you 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.320 come down here. Ben Crenshaw is going to come down here. 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.520 I want you guys to look at this. He was 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.879 still hopeful. I knew I got down the golf coast. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.199 Ben comes over. Ben looked at the site in a 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.800 nano second. You know, Robin Williams would say, no, we're 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:02.840 not building the golf course. But that man did, at 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.160 least from my side of the equation. He's the one, 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:12.040 uh who who got us together that day. Uh we 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.480 you know, we met for the first time. We ended 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.160 up that afternoon going over to Rockport. It was really 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.200 close and then I walked the host in the Rockport. 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.959 I mean, I'm walking with Ben Crunch, the Master Champion, 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.200 and I'm not thinking this is just well, I hope 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:29.080 you work the courses. 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:33.320 And I looked at that golf course and there was 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:39.000 there was something totally different about what I saw. It 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.920 was interesting, it was natural. It looked like it sprang 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.200 right out of the ground, and it had at It 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:51.720 had a particular appeal to me, and I thought, wow, 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.600 this is this guy has a really sense of feel 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:58.560 of the atmosphere of where he's working. 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.359 About this time, Crenshaw had just left IMG and had 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.320 hired his childhood friend and business partner, Scotty Sayers as 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.080 his manager. Sayers recalls seeing Ben when he got back 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:12.640 to Austin. 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.760 He walked into the library at his house after spending 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:21.040 the day with Bill and Julie was in there, and 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.240