1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,439 Speaker 1: The best way I know how to describe Ben Crenshaw 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: is simply say, look at our company name. Tell me 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: one other major championship winner with an unknown golf course 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: architect who would form a partnership and call it by 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: the other guy's name first. 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: It didn't happen. It wouldn't happen, so. 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 3: He has every right to be up first. 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: I followed Bill. I'm gladly followed Bill. 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 3: With another log on the five nobody is getting tied. 10 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: This is the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. 11 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: The sixth episode of The fire Pit is part one 12 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: of the people, places and things that had an influence 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 3: on what Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw have become as architects, 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 3: How and when they met, who was involved, and why 15 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: it works. We start with suecoor Bill's wife. 16 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 2: I say, Ben Crenshaw. 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 4: You say, because that is my connection with Ben. But 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 4: I really think of Bill and Ben as brothers. I 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 4: swear they came from the same mother because they are 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 4: so similar in temperament, They're so similar in graciousness they are. 21 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 4: They don't pay attention to things together. They pay attention 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 4: to things together, and I think they make each other better. 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: Next, we hear from Julie Crenshaw, Ben's wife. 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 5: I say Bill. 25 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 3: Coore and you say genius. 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 6: Reminded me a lot of Ben. Very quiet, very polite, 27 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 6: soft spoken. I can see why they have a lot 28 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 6: in common. They are kindred spirits. 29 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 7: I can tell you. 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 3: That in this era of golf course architecture, I believe 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: Core and Crenshaw are the most consistent and thoughtful builders 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: of the fun and fair adventure we seek. As avid amateurs, 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: they move very little dirt and yet extract so much 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: soul from the land that they leave behind. I've been 35 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 3: fortunate enough to chronicle the development of almost half of 36 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: their portfolio. I've heard them preach restraint, celebrate strategy, and 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: I've watched them walk raw land in search of the 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: ideal routing. Bill is always out front, while Ben tends 39 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: to fall behind, stopping on occasion to ask questions and 40 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 3: flush out the options. As they build their thirtieth course 41 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: in their thirty fifth year of being partners. Their body 42 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: of work includes sand Hills, Friar's Head, and Colorado Golf Club. 43 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 3: Some of my favorites are Lost Farm, Caboc Cliffs, and 44 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: Bandon Trails. Some of their restoration work on Iconic ves 45 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 3: includes Cyprus Point Seminal and of course Pinehurst Number two, 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: the Sheep Ranch, the sixth course at Bandon Dune's and 47 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: their third for Mike Kaiser's Oregon Resort, opens on June first. 48 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: Julie and Sue will be used throughout this episode, as 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: well as Rod Whitman, a longtime associate of core In 50 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 3: Crenshaw who has almost ten courses to his credit, one 51 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: of which is Cabot Links in Nova Scotia. We also 52 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: hear from Scottie Sayers, Crenshaw's childhood friend and the one 53 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: who makes sure this partnership is also a business. Did 54 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: you ever think you'd be getting together on Skype to 55 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: have a conversation reflecting on your career and the beginning 56 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: of what has become core In Crenshaw. 57 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 6: Rat. 58 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 5: If it weren't for Julie and my wife Sue, we 59 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 5: wouldn't be here today. 60 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: I'll tell you that Julie Crenshaw confirms. 61 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 6: They're like brothers. They how they think they both don't 62 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 6: have emails. 63 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: You know that. 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 6: You can get them to call, you can't get them 65 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 6: to text, but. 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: They do it the old school way. Everything about them 67 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: is old school. 68 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: Bill Corr was an only child raised by a single 69 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 3: mom who worked multiple jobs to support the family and 70 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: any of young William's dreams and aspirations. Sue Corr shares 71 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: some perspective. 72 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: I think that he had the most amazing mama on 73 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 4: the planet. She just encouraged him to be the best 74 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 4: at whatever whatever he wanted. He came home and said 75 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 4: he wanted to be an astronaut, she'd support that be 76 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 4: the best that you could be whatever he wanted to be. 77 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 4: I'm just sorry that I never met her, because she 78 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 4: raised an incredible man. 79 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,239 Speaker 3: As for designing backyard golf holes, if his mom was home, 80 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: he told me the routing tended to go around the house. 81 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: If she wasn't home, he often went over the house. 82 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: Well, at you're right. 83 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 5: I grew up out in rural North Carolina and my 84 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 5: next door neighbor played golf and he introduced me to it, 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 5: and there he was really the only close neighbors. So 86 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 5: we would play around through the our backyard to his. 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 8: Backyard, to the mailbox, and out across the dirt road 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 8: where we lived, and even in through the corn fields 89 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 8: when they were cloud under, so we'd make up our 90 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 8: own holes and things but I would caddy for him 91 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 8: and on some very special occasion he would go to Pinehurst. 92 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 5: So he is the one who introduced me to Pinehurst. 93 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 5: And then later when I was in high school and 94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 5: then of. 95 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 9: Course in college, I'd go there a far more regular basis, 96 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 9: But at they were fun times and there were, you know, 97 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 9: the cornerstone of what I my introduction to golf and 98 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 9: my introduction to what interesting golf architecture was all about. 99 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 3: Sue Corp shares some perspective. 100 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 4: Bill wasn't raised with a father, and his parents were 101 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 4: divorced when Bill was quite young, and there were lots 102 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 4: of men who took over that position and really cared 103 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 4: for Bill and really nurtured Bill. And his mother was 104 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 4: smart enough and confidence enough to encourage all of that. 105 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: As for Ben Crenshaw, he grew up at Austin, Texas, 106 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: navigating Lyons Municipal and the old Austin Country Club, which 107 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: was a Perry Maxwell design. 108 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 7: The places where I was playing started me on kind 109 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 7: of thinking about golf courses. One of my first sort 110 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 7: of road trips was Brackenridge Park in San Antonio to 111 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 7: play in the Texas State Junior. It's an old tillinghas 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 7: course very tight. I mean there were a couple of 113 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 7: holes there you had to thread the needle big on trees. 114 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 7: But it started me thinking about different golf holes. And 115 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 7: then when I started traveling, I said, yeah, I've been 116 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 7: treated to some wonderful examples. So I just always I 117 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 7: was always kind of fascinated about golf courses and how 118 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 7: they were laid out. And then when I went to 119 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 7: Boston when I was sixteen to play in the National 120 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 7: Junior at the country Club, it. 121 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: Just blew my mind. 122 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 7: I wanted to know who built the courses, who was 123 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 7: and you know, the organization's history of the game, the players. 124 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 7: I just from then on, I just started studying everything 125 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 7: I could find. 126 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 3: Although Bill Core was intrigued by the concept of golf 127 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: course designed, it was Pete Due who inspired more digging. 128 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 5: I knew I like certain courses and certain yeah things, 129 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 5: and I tried to figure out why, but I really 130 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 5: wasn't that much into it. And when I saw what 131 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 5: Pete was doing, a little public course called O Call 132 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 5: in high Point, I just said, gee, this is different. 133 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 5: I wonder how you do this? And I was I 134 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 5: was about to get out of the army. I was single. 135 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 5: I didn't need any more money. Fortunately, working for Pete, 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 5: you weren't going to make much. 137 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 9: But whatever it took to you know, I took myself alive, 138 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 9: and so yeah, that's how you get to that that. 139 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 5: I began to basically just badger Pete. I thought I'd 140 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 5: like to see how this is done. And in the 141 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 5: beginning it was with the intention I'd just like to 142 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 5: see how you actually create one of these things. And 143 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 5: I was always thinking after that, I'll go back to 144 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 5: graduate school. 145 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: Well obviously that didn't happen either, but. 146 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 9: It's for my whole My whole career has been a 147 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 9: very circuitous, almost in so many ways, unplanned journey. 148 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 3: As for meetings, Jack Nicholas at the nineteen seventy one 149 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: US Open and Marion ben Crenshaw had what you'd call 150 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 3: a spontaneous plant. 151 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 7: I was changing my shoes in the locker room and 152 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 7: somehow Jack walked in by himself, and I said, oh 153 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 7: my god, here's my chance. 154 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 2: I've got to go got to go meet. 155 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 7: Himself, following him upstairs, and it was a restroom up there, 156 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 7: so I said, oh god, I got him there. So 157 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 7: I went to the rest so I stuck out my hand, 158 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 7: I said, Jack, and John he said, well, I'll I'll 159 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 7: leave with him just. 160 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: So. But that was my first meeting with Jack. 161 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 7: I admired the way he played everything else, but I 162 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 7: knew at that point he was just starting to get 163 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 7: into golf course architecture. So I thought, well, that's that's 164 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 7: pretty neat right there. And he ironically, you know, he 165 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 7: worked with Pete Died at Harbortown, although minimally there. Yeah, 166 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 7: and then he sort of knew that he was he 167 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 7: could do both jobs as a obviously world class golfer 168 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 7: and then obviously pursue architecture too, and he had a 169 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 7: true love and passion for it. But Jack was you know, 170 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 7: that's a lot to take on in a career business 171 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 7: wise and playing. But they seemed to juggle it, like 172 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 7: Arnold Palmer did too. 173 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: After chasing down Pete Die a few times in the 174 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: early seventies, Bill was watching the local news which reported 175 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: Die was going to be building the Cardinal in Greensboro, 176 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 3: North Carolina, not far from where Bill lived. 177 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 5: They were talking about that Pete Die was going to 178 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 5: be in town. They were going to start this golf course. 179 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 5: Still I'm thinking he didn't even call me, you. 180 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 10: Know, tell me anyway, drive out there and he's with 181 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 10: a guy named John Gray who was Pete's construction form 182 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 10: in there and associate and he just finally time sun 183 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 10: for this guy to do. 184 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: He just wanted to get rid of me and Matt. 185 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 5: I started with a pair of hip waiters and a chainsaw. 186 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: Well, Ben Crenshaw was having success on the course. Core 187 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 3: was going course to course with Pete and Roy died, 188 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 3: which is how he ended up in Huntsville, Texas. Is 189 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 3: water would the course that Pete kind of left you 190 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: at and said, you know you'd be the superintendent here? 191 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: Is that? 192 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, Matt, that's a very kind way of putting it. 193 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 7: He got rid of you. 194 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 5: Peache sent me to work with his brother Roy, supposedly 195 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 5: to help Gary grand Staff, who was the golf course superintendent, 196 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 5: and work for Roy to help Gary. 197 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: Uh Spanish water with National Well. 198 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 3: In Huntsville, Bill met Ron Whitman, who was a Canadian 199 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: going to school at sam Houston State. Bill quickly became 200 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: a mentor and a friend. 201 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 11: Well, I didn't have any money, so Bill always bought 202 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 11: the pizza and uh, I mean we played golf. I 203 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 11: just got to hanging out with him on the weekends 204 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 11: at Waterwood, and you know, Bill was out there seven 205 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 11: days a week, and uh, you know, over time we 206 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 11: just got to play a little golf together and then 207 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 11: and hang out and and I just loved being around him, 208 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 11: and he would talk about golf course design, and you know, 209 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 11: I was just trying to play golf at that time. 210 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 11: I had no aspirations to become an architect, but the 211 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 11: subject fascinated me, and he was very passionate about it. 212 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 11: So that's uh. He has some old books that I 213 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 11: could start to read and some notes that he'd made 214 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 11: when he worked for Pete, and uh, I became fascinated 215 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 11: with the subject. And then certainly just talking with Bill, 216 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 11: it was, uh, it was inspired, daring to think about 217 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 11: the old courses and golf course design in general, which 218 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 11: I had never you know, paid much attention to. 219 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 3: Now in the early eighties, still in Huntsville, Bill gets 220 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 3: a call from Pete Die He needed a guy in 221 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 3: Austin and he needed him. 222 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 7: Now. 223 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 11: We were out doing some work, I think on the 224 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 11: Ninth Green and he got a call from from Pete. 225 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 11: Pete wanted somebody to go to Austin. And you know, 226 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 11: as he said later, dump trucks, you know, was to 227 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 11: watch the dump trucks dump and tell him where to 228 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 11: dump and that sort of thing. He took the phone call, 229 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 11: came back out and asked me if I wanted to 230 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 11: go to work with Pete. And I just was the 231 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 11: damn nervous. I could hardly talk. And after a little 232 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 11: bit I certainly agreed to it, and he made the arrangements, 233 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 11: had to rent me a car, and I and I 234 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 11: you know, drove out to Austin that day. It will 235 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 11: all happened very fast. 236 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: So Rod is now working for Pete Dye. Bill had 237 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: worked for Pete Dye, and Ben was keeping an eye 238 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 3: on Pete Die. 239 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 11: You know, when I was saying in Austin at the 240 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 11: Austin Country Club, Pete would come to town and then 241 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 11: you know, he would have visitors. I mean, Tom Kite 242 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 11: would come out there and Ben Crenshaw would come out there, 243 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 11: and you know, they'd walk around and try to hang 244 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 11: out with Pete a little bit and just watch him work. 245 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 11: And so when he did come out there, I mean, 246 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 11: obviously I got a chance to meet him because I 247 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 11: was part of that entourage. And you know, Pete told me, 248 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 11: he says, you know Ben's coming out here. He says, 249 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 11: just just listen to him and do whatever he wants. 250 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 11: He said, So it was sort of an interesting time. 251 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 7: I was told by Rod Whitman was Pete De's foreman, 252 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 7: and I'd gotten to meet Rod, and I'm really interested 253 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 7: in what he was doing. I saw Pete many times. 254 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 7: They both made and he said, you know what, you 255 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 7: need to meet Bill Kourr. You need you need to 256 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 7: meet Bill Kurr. I really think that you'd like him. 257 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 11: I would go back and forth to Huntsville every now 258 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 11: and then and talk with Bill, and I told him 259 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 11: that I'd met Ben, and I thought, man, this guy 260 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 11: is just a really nice guy. He's really cool guy. 261 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 11: He's interested in designing, and uh, you know, I just 262 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 11: I just know that talking to Bill that I mentioned that, 263 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 11: you know, it would be nice if he if he 264 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 11: met him. 265 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: The seeds had been planted, but before they met. A 266 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 3: man named Dave Kerry helps get Bill his big break 267 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: down on the Gulf Coast of Texas, four hours south 268 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 3: of Huntsville. 269 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 5: He said, look, we've known each other now for a 270 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 5: two years. He said, I know you're the superintendent here, 271 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 5: by I know, really what you'd like to do is 272 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 5: be in the golf course design business. He said, this 273 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 5: may be the chance, and he took me down Rockport 274 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 5: Hendry Club, mentioning enough was it in the middle of 275 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 5: building their first nine holes, and for some reason, I've 276 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 5: never known what happened, but there were some as they 277 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 5: say in Texas, are falling out between the owners and 278 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 5: the golf course architect. And so they just dismissed him 279 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 5: on the spot. But here they are, they're digging lakes, 280 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 5: they're doing they're working in this nine holes and they've 281 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 5: got no one in charge of their design. I guess 282 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 5: Dave Carriacter water with you this. He takes me down there, 283 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 5: introduces me, and so they're on the spot. They say, well, 284 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 5: you're supposed to know something about this. 285 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: We need somebody. 286 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 5: This is the maximum you can spend and if you 287 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 5: want the job, you got to and figure it out. 288 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: And it's yours. 289 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 9: I guess I was so naive, and so, as they say, 290 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 9: walked into the deep end of the pool paddle around again. 291 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: Even with his raw talent and ambition for architecture, Bill 292 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 3: cor couldn't go it alone. He called upon Jerry Clark 293 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: aka Screwed, who had been helping him with coursework at Waterwood. 294 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 5: And so when Rockport came along, I said, Screage, you 295 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 5: want you want to go? 296 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 2: You want to go? Let me and try it, see 297 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: if we can make some of this. Yeah, but I'll 298 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: go with you. And so we the two of us. 299 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 5: Go down there and and we we start working on it. 300 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: Said basically, just two of us start with. 301 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 5: And then another guy who lived there named Mike McKay 302 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 5: who ended up working with Ben and May for years, 303 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 5: and it actually became the nucleus or the cornerstone now 304 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 5: of you the guys that we have today because Jerry 305 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 5: Clark and Mike McKay trained like jimbo right and and 306 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 5: Dave Accent and these guys who have now gone on 307 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 5: to train all these other guys. So you can trace 308 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 5: it right back to that. But yeah, we we finished 309 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 5: the nine holes in Rockport. It turned out, you know, 310 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 5: they thought it was good. We actually did a second 311 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 5: nine holes there immediately after. 312 00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: So it was eighteen. 313 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 5: The guys and I were kind of tiptoeing along, but 314 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 5: we were I guess, I guess you could say we 315 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 5: were officially in the golf course design builds. 316 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 3: I asked Rod Whitman for his thoughts on Rockport, the 317 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 3: first original Billcorp design. 318 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 11: I loved Rockport. It was a great little setting in 319 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 11: a small town. And yeah, every day you get up, 320 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 11: you just want to play golf and it was a 321 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 11: lot of fun. I could see where anybody looking at it, 322 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 11: knowing that it was new, to say, man, that's pretty classic. 323 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 3: Rockport was good enough to get that team some attention, 324 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 3: but according to several potential clients, they were missing something. 325 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 5: One most memorable story, at least to me, happened in Houston, 326 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 5: Texas with the man who was a very successful real 327 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 5: estate golfers had a nice, beautiful office and I guess 328 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 5: what at the time was the tallest building in Houston. 329 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 5: He goes Bill. He said, I've seen your golf course 330 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 5: in Rockport. It's really good. He said, it's really good. 331 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 5: He said, but nobody's ever heard of you. Nobody knows 332 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 5: who you are. This business is about selling real estate. 333 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 2: This is not so much about golf. 334 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 5: If you walk in here tomorrow with Lay Trevenue on 335 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 5: your arm, or Tom Watson or you know somebody like that, 336 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: he said, I'll hire you until then, and he walked 337 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 5: me over to the window of his high rise office. 338 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 2: We looked down on the street. 339 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 5: He said, until then, until I can walk down there 340 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 5: on that street and call out your name and people 341 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 5: stop to look around to see where you are, you 342 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 5: don't get hired. 343 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 2: So well, I don't do that. 344 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 5: And I said, I just haven't really felt like I said, job, 345 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 5: we got another job. 346 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 2: We hopefully we'll get another one. I don't know. I 347 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 2: just it's just not. 348 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 5: Something i'd really given much thought to. He said, well, 349 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 5: if you did, who would it be? 350 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: You just referred to it Matt. 351 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 5: Ben had just won the Masters nineteen eighty four, and 352 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 5: this probably was happening maybe the month. 353 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 2: After that. But I didn't know Ben. 354 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 5: But I just I'd read the articles in the magazines 355 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 5: where Ben's talking about golf and golf architecture. I just said, well, 356 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 5: I guess I guess there were gonna be anybody be 357 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 5: Ben Crunchaw. The guy looked at me and he just goes, God, 358 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 5: a mighty bill, he said, I know Ben. 359 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 9: He said, he was a romantic and naive as you are. 360 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 9: A few guys together would be his master. 361 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: So then along comes Charlie Belair, another wealthy Texas businessman 362 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: who had some land on the Gulf Coast. He wanted 363 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 3: to have Bill cor And again a well known player, 364 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: take a look, and although he still didn't know him, 365 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 3: Bill floated the idea of Ben Crenshaw again. But Bill's 366 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: first visit to that land was by himself. As for 367 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 3: his first impressions of the potential project. 368 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 9: Mad it wasn't gonna happen. It's just one of the 369 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 9: worst sites you'd ever see. 370 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 5: It went underwater, salt water, so, I mean, it wasn't 371 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 5: gonna happen. 372 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 3: Bill had seen enough and he left town. 373 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 5: Charlie calls me back and he says, Bill, can you 374 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 5: come down here. Ben Crenshaw is going to come down here. 375 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 5: I want you guys to look at this. He was 376 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 5: still hopeful. I knew I got down the golf coast. 377 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 5: Ben comes over. Ben looked at the site in a 378 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 5: nano second. You know, Robin Williams would say, no, we're 379 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 5: not building the golf course. But that man did, at 380 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 5: least from my side of the equation. He's the one, 381 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 5: uh who who got us together that day. Uh we 382 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 5: you know, we met for the first time. We ended 383 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 5: up that afternoon going over to Rockport. It was really 384 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 5: close and then I walked the host in the Rockport. 385 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 5: I mean, I'm walking with Ben Crunch, the Master Champion, 386 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 5: and I'm not thinking this is just well, I hope 387 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 5: you work the courses. 388 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 7: And I looked at that golf course and there was 389 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 7: there was something totally different about what I saw. It 390 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 7: was interesting, it was natural. It looked like it sprang 391 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 7: right out of the ground, and it had at It 392 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 7: had a particular appeal to me, and I thought, wow, 393 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 7: this is this guy has a really sense of feel 394 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 7: of the atmosphere of where he's working. 395 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 3: About this time, Crenshaw had just left IMG and had 396 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: hired his childhood friend and business partner, Scotty Sayers as 397 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 3: his manager. Sayers recalls seeing Ben when he got back 398 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: to Austin. 399 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 12: He walked into the library at his house after spending 400 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 12: the day with Bill and Julie was in there, and 401 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 12: I've seen him excited, but this was one of the 402 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 12: most exciting times for him, just because he really didn't 403 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 12: have a partner or didn't have a plan on how 404 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 12: to get into the business. 405 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: They had met, there was interest, and in Ben's mind 406 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 3: it was a done deal. 407 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 7: It was just unbelievable how this happened. Nineteen eighty five. 408 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 7: Nineteen eighty five is when we decided to make a 409 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 7: go at this, and that was the year I married Julie. 410 00:23:53,680 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 7: So I made two really good decisions. Remember Julie when 411 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 7: I came back and you know, I was god I 412 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 7: was playing. I'm still going to play tournaments, I said, Julie. 413 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 7: I made a decision. I said, I'm going to Bill 414 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 7: Kohor and I am in a former partnership, and she said, 415 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 7: why in the world are you doing That's a you're 416 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 7: a player. 417 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: And I said, you're going to have to trust me on. 418 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 6: This, Julie, and I was thinking, Wow, what are you kidding? 419 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 6: And I was like, are you sure you want to 420 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 6: do this? You know, because he was struggling with his health, 421 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 6: struggling with this game. We just got married. We weren't 422 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 6: even certain he was ever going to play competitive golf again. 423 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty five, Ben Crenshaw missed the cut in 424 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: thirteen of his first nineteen tournaments. He was eventually diagnosed 425 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 3: with what's called Graves disease, an overactive thyroid. 426 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 6: He could not break eighty, could not putt, could not chip, 427 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 6: could not just played terrible golf. Blamed it on stressed, 428 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 6: lost like thirty pounds instead of Sports Illustrated putting him 429 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 6: on the cover for when in the Masters, they were 430 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 6: like chasing him on the golf course because he was 431 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 6: shooting eighty and missing cuts. 432 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: And it was horrible, horrible, poor. 433 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 6: It was sad and horrible, and I mean really we 434 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 6: had no idea if. 435 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: He was going to ever compete. 436 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 6: And so when we got married, remember they did a 437 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 6: blood test on him and checked us. They were like, 438 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 6: your thigh is huge. Well it was off the charts. 439 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 6: So they gave him radioactive iodine to kill it, and 440 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 6: they said, six weeks later, you should feel better. Six 441 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 6: weeks to the day, he finished tied for six at 442 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 6: the US Open at Chinnakok, and we skipped around that 443 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 6: place like he had one the tournament. I remember Raymond 444 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 6: winning and we were like, well. 445 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 11: We won, you're back, you are back. 446 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 6: Four weeks later he won the muic Open, and then 447 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 6: he was off. 448 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 4: So he took you know, took a gamble on getting 449 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 4: married to me, took a gamble on Bill, and you. 450 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 6: Know, didn't know if he was going to get better, 451 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 6: but it all worked out and he did get better, 452 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 6: thank goodness. 453 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: So who and what gets credit for this chance encounter 454 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 3: p Die, of course, but they couldn't have done it 455 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 3: without Rockport Country Club. 456 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 12: I mean, there's no question that the routing there very 457 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 12: traditional and not much distance between the going. 458 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: From the grain to the tea. 459 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 12: Easily walkable course, very interesting, good bunker work, and it 460 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 12: was it was early Bill. 461 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: Coore, but you could sure see what was. 462 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 12: Going to be in his mind in the future as 463 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 12: he designed courses. And sure that's where Ben really really 464 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 12: was hooked on Bill Kover. 465 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 3: And they probably wouldn't have met without Rod Whitman. 466 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 11: They just seem like they would become pretty good friends. 467 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 11: You know, they're they're both at the same sort of 468 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 11: age and mental stability, if I can call it that. 469 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 11: You know, they just they just I thought that they'd 470 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 11: get along very well and uh, you know, could talk 471 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 11: architecture on a level that that made some sense and 472 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 11: just had a feeling. 473 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 3: And apparently this doesn't happen without some perseverance by Ben Crenshaw. 474 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 7: And I'll confess I was the one who pursued Bill 475 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 7: in the elite. Bill was not interested in partnering with anyone, 476 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 7: and I think I don't know a month, maybe three, 477 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 7: and went by and it got to what I may 478 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 7: have tried to talk him into it, and it wasn't 479 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 7: really interested. You know, I can't. 480 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: I kind of you know, I can understand that. 481 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 7: And when it finally he came around and I said, 482 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 7: you know, maybe maybe maybe we could give this a go. 483 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 2: It's beginning to sound like a fairy tale. You know. 484 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 5: We met in eighty four, and then over a period 485 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 5: of over a year, I mean significantly over a year, 486 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 5: we would just occasionally get together or we'd have phone 487 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 5: conversations about golf architecture. 488 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: Ben would call sometimes have you ever seen this or that? 489 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 11: You know? 490 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 5: Of course, and thinks, but there was never really this 491 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 5: great game plan to make this happen, and it's been 492 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 5: has been said, he he he. 493 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 2: He likes to take the blame, I guess for us 494 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: being together. I think he pursued it. It was. 495 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 5: To say that I don't It was just such a 496 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 5: natural evolution. But at some point in time, man, and 497 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 5: I can sincerely say, there wasn't this great dinner, there 498 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 5: wasn't this great whatever, there wasn't too many beers out someplace, 499 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 5: and then said let's do it. It just evolved and 500 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 5: we said let's try some of this together. 501 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 7: Fate. In retrospect, I look back on it, and Fate 502 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 7: had a fickle hand in all this. I've had some 503 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 7: nice things happened to me in my career. This is 504 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 7: one of them. 505 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 3: In Part two, which will go live in a week, 506 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: we're taking this partnership all the way to send Hills 507 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: in the Brea, the sand based trampoline that vaulted these 508 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 3: guys into another atmosphere of architecture. Are you looking for 509 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: good value on great golf apparel as a listener to 510 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 3: this podcast, My friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham at 511 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 3: link Soul in Oceanside, California are offering you a twenty 512 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 3: five percent discount on all future orders of what I 513 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: Wear all day, every day, on and off the course. 514 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 3: Whenever you go to linksoul dot com, just use promo 515 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 3: code matty G twenty five m A t t y 516 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: G twenty five. Thank you for listening to the fire Pit. 517 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 3: It's produced by Alex Upeggi. It's edited by Rex Lint. 518 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 3: The theme song is by Joe Horowitz. Please rate and 519 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: review this podcast on Apple Podcasts and we might track 520 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: you down and send you one of our new Imperial ropads. 521 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 3: Got a question, comment, or a story for us to 522 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 3: track down. You can find me on Twitter at Matt 523 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 3: Janella or on Instagram at Matt Underscore. And if you 524 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 3: haven't already done so, please subscribe to the fire Pit 525 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 3: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to 526 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: a story like this one. You can also subscribe to 527 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 3: our YouTube channel, which is where we post portions of 528 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: our podcast and add some visual surprises.