WEBVTT - How Are We All Related, with John Legend and Anne Wojcicki 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:06.000 I'm Baritone Day Thurston and this is spit and I 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.240 Heart Radio podcast with twenty three and Me. This is 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.880 the podcast that explores how our DNA is changing our 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.960 lives and the world around us. For our first show, 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.880 we'll explore how are we all related? The most drastic 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.080 examples of violence in humanity that we have, we're often 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.799 justified by people thinking that someone who looked a little 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.920 bit different or worshiped a little bit differently. But I 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.280 feel like we're becoming closer together in the world is 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.800 becoming less violent, more empathetic, and we're helping each other 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.480 more than we ever used to. You're not that different 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.520 from other humans. You're actually genetically really similar, and that's 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.199 the reality. I am here with two guests who are 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.320 changing the world, one through culture, one through science. We 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:53.040 have a Grammy Oscar Tony and hopefully soon Emmy Award 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:59.000 winning certainly nominated artist, philanthropist and Rose purveyor Mr John Legend. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.640 Welcome to the rooms. Thank you, thank you, good to 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.560 You also have the co founder and CEO of twenty 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.920 three and me. Please welcome and thank you. Do your 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:17.080 name okay, perfect, got the name? Got the name? Everyone 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.800 needs to do we got to warm up, so you 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.600 all warm. We're going to talk about what DNA means 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.000 to us, the story that it tells us about who 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.520 we are and how we're all related. And I want 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.040 to start with you, John. Have you done a DNA 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.479 test before and if so, what have you found out 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.520 about where you're from? Yeah? I did a DNA test. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.640 I learned a lot about the stories of my ancestors, 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:44.080 some of whom were slaves in America, and some of 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.920 the courage that they displayed on one group in my 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.120 family history. Literally, UM fought in court for their freedom, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.120 and the state of Ohio defended them, the state where 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.320 I grew up and was born, defend exactly why I 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:04.120 root for the guys UM. They defended my family in 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:09.320 court because someone who was UM descendants of their their 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.480 masters before UM, tried to reclaim them back into slavery 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.720 back into the South when they were living in Ohio, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.000 and Ohio went and defended them. Uh. You, So Ohio 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.760 defended ancestors of yours from being kidnapped by folks from 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.640 back into the South. But also they give you the 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.160 literal breakdown of where they think your ancestry comes from. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.760 You got like the John Legend recipe. Yeah, the recipe. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.120 People want to know what the recipe is. So I 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.360 found out I was two thirds of African descent, West 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.960 African and one third mostly European descent. Um, you know, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.280 like western and northern northern Europe. This is very exciting 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.120 for me. Yeah, um, black and the job black, the job. 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.799 I feel like black people we kind of know our 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.480 level of blackness. We can look at each other. We 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:57.840 look at the skin tones and we're like, oh, it 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.480 looks like he's mixed, or he looks like he's just right. Yes, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.919 I turned it turned out I was two thirds. So 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.360 you know, whatever that says, that's what it says. Um, 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.959 it's very American. And I think, Um, when both of 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.359 your parents consider themselves black, they have about the same 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.440 complexion I do, and probably a similar mix um uh 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.239 that I do. You're raised black, you know, they think 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.320 of themselves as black, So you think of yourself as black, 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.200 no matter whatever other mixes in there. In America kind 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.280 of tells you you're black as well, by the way 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.960 America treats you and by the way that America looks 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.800 at you. Um. And so I never really kind of 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.480 accounted for a thought about the other parts of my mix, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.600 because I thought, well, I'm black, and that's what I am, um, 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.720 And you know, we know what light skin and dark skin, 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.040 and you know, you know brown skin or whatever is uh. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.960 And we talked about that in the community of black folks. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:52.760 But at the end of the day, we think of 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.200 ourselves as black most of the time unless you have 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.320 a parent who's of another race, and then it kind 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.400 of complicates it more. So that's what I thought of 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.280 myself as. And then I got the details on it 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:04.600 when I took the test. Did that change what you 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.920 told yourself about who you are or where you're from? 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.000 You know, because I think, um, I always thought of 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:13.640 myself and I think also considering myself black, would also 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.360 consider myself African American, which um, African American to me 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:22.440 means the possibility that you're mixed with probability and and 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.760 probably that that mixture comes from probably a story that's 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.880 not so good, which is a lot of times the 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.840 white blood in our ancestry comes from rape and from 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.640 domination from um, white male slave masters towards black women. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.120 So we know that story. A lot of us in 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.200 our community know that story, and so when we think 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.160 about our ancestry and we know that part of it's white, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.240 we know that there's a good chance that part of 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.240 that whiteness comes from something that was pretty evil and 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:54.400 violent and um destructive. Uh So it's an interesting thing 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.880 to grapple with. And it's part of the American story 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.520 and the African American story that slavery can never be 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.320 kind of erased out of the conversation because so much 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.839 of that history and affects our legacy. Now. Yeah, and 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.400 it's literally in the DNA. It's literally in our DNA, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.560 which is a nice segue to you, And what do 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.960 you know about your genetic story and your DNA story 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.240 where you're from. Well, both my parents are relative, you know, 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.120 my my father's first generation, my mom's parents, they immigrated here. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.240 It was interesting because we're obviously we're one of the 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.760 first people that were ever that was ever sequenced or 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.840 every ginotyped um and so my mother is Jewish, my 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.880 father is Catholic. And it's interesting because it was the 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.040 first time we got the DNA back and you could 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.120 so clearly see I remember my sister saying, she was like, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.440 it's eerily creepy. How accurate it is like the DNA 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.280 really shows up. So I'm half Jewish, half European, and 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:48.960 so I have a tiny bit of Croatian. So I 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.159 was actually like we were excited for the World Cup. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.159 We were actually I was I was thinking about what 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:54.479 part of what team do I want to root for. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.479 I was like, well, I got that one person in Croatian, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.039 so therefore I'm like, I'm rolling for it. Um. I 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.040 love DNAs and the excuse to root for a World 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.800 Cup completely completely For black people, that meant root for 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:11.880 France exactly. So what was interesting is my grandmothers from Siberia, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.560 and she looked very Asian, like you know, my great 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.080 grandparents and more and more, and so we always had 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.080 this belief we're like, we're just part Mongolian, like we 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.080 know what, like they're from, you know, an area that 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.080 was similar to Mongolia or close to Mongolia. And then 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.000 when we got our DNA, that was actually our Bible 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.159 disappointment because we were so you know, determined, we're like 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.840 we're like part Mongolian and we're really not. We're not 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:35.960 at all. That's what it was for me and Native 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.880 American because you grew up in black families and so 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.479 many of us kind of have this mythology or something 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.280 in our community where we're like, yeah, we're part of 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.640 Indian for some reason or another. And I think a 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.320 lot of particular light skinned folks might have come up 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:51.960 with that as a kind of way of not acknowledging 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:57.760 their white ancestry. But it turns out no, no, it 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.479 was like one or two percent. Uh, And then you know, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.560 it's definitely one of the most common we see people 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.560 who have you know, who think that they know what 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.640 their ancestry. And that's part of the reality is like 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:09.680 you get you get a decent amount of non paternity. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.440 A lot of people, you know, are not necessarily related 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.400 to the father that they think. And people have been 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.720 you know, there's different stories about where you've actually been. 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.560 So the reality of whatever you look like today, you 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.840 can look a certain way, but what's in your DNA 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.360 can actually be quite different. Yeah, and then and what's 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.720 in the story that you have to be different from 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.680 within your DNA? How much nonpaternity are you guys getting? 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:36.160 You know, it's fantastic stories. I think coming the show, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.520 it's it's interesting, how um, I mean, I feel like 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.400 over the last twelve years we've you start a company 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.160 and you think you're starting for all kinds of reasons, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.240 and um, you realize ten years later the consequences of 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.560 all the all the things that you you sort of anticipated, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.560 but you didn't realize quite the impact it would have. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.120 And I would say one of those things is nonpaternity. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.400 And you always know it's out there, but it's out 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.440 there with a frequency that probably every single family has story. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.760 So if you imagine that the nation average is about 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.720 ten percent if you go back three generations. UM. I 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.000 always joke that you have someone in your family whose 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:20.120 uncle Joe, who's actually just Joe, and it's relatively high. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.400 But you know, you go back statistically, you have enough 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.440 people in your in your family three generations there's someone 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.000 there that everyone has a story. And that's the type 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.480 of thing like we just found recently that we just 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.280 found a first cousin and it's interesting, like we we 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.280 kind of um, like I I kind of felt for 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.120 this guy who you know, he was adopted and was 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.640 looking for his family. And the guy logs in and 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.280 holy cow, like there's a lot of us on twenty 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.640 three and like, not only that he can see he's 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.200 related to the founder. Um so no, and it's and 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:57.280 it's amazing, like we um know, we've we've I mean, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.760 we're we see him right, I Mean it's great. And 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.560 that one thing that I've learned, like one of the 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.679 most interesting things I think that's come out of twenty 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.280 three ME that we're grappling with as a site, what 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.280 is the definition of family? And you know, is it 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.680 just based on genetics or is it based on you know, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.640 the community that you grew up with. And people come 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.319 to me all the time and they say, all these 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.120 people think they're my cousins and they're they keep emailing 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:19.840 me on twenty three ME, and I'll say, I was like, 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.480 well they are, Like it's it's all that they think 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.600 they are. You have DNA in common with these people, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.200 like you are, so you know, And and it goes 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:28.840 to again, one of the main things I think that 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.080 I've learned with twenty three ME is how much the 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.840 world is genuinely connected like we have. Like again, I 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:35.480 grew up in the era of we are the world 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.160 and singing that and um and you believe it, But 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.120 but now I can see it, like scientifically, I can 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.280 see that the entire that we are the world, like 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.000 we're genetically connected, not just to each other as human, 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.480 but every living thing on this planet, Like there is 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.640 a common like life all evolved in one way, and 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.360 you're connected like you know, you're connected to the trees, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.040 You're connected to you know, the animals running around, You're 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.680 connected to everything here. Everything has the common four letders 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.480 of d n A And there's a beautiful story of 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.000 evolution and how we've evolved and sort of how you've 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.520 been optimized as well. I mean to me, that's where 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.080 like we are all connected, we are all, we are 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:19.360 the world. So so in the scientific grounding, there was 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:21.600 a lot that you both just just offered up. And 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.600 one thing I heard from both of you is the 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.520 story versus the science of who we are, whether racially 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.360 right scientifically your one third white, but your identity is 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.640 black because that's what you grew up with. And you 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.360 know you had a story of mongolia, and the science said, well, 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:44.280 actually not at all. But this common ground, these letters 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.640 that unite us all we find a way to exacerbate 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.840 the divisions very effectively. Right, we're not a nine point 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.319 the same as humans, but that point five percent is 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.000 an area we have been eager to explore, to put 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.920 it positively, UM. And so I think for you, John, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:03.679 what are you? What have you seen in some of 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.360 your work in the way you connect with people through music, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.960 but then certainly your activism about how we explore and 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.360 exploit that very small technical, scientific division. Yeah, it's interesting 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.760 because I think part of the goal of art is 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.640 to bring us together and and and get in touch 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.280 with our soul and and um connect us through like 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.480 a common human experience. I play my music and in 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.800 New York, I played in Los Angeles, also played in 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.760 Johannesburg and Cape Town, I played in Lagos, I play 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.800 it in Sam Paolo, I play it in Beijing. And 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.120 I feel like there's so much that unites us and 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.640 that connects us to each other. And I think art 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.319 is a really powerful way to kind of highlight that 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.480 and to inspire that connection to even become closer. And 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.880 I think storytelling, particularly comes to TV and film, has 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.760 the power to help us empathize with other people when 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.880 it comes to other experiences that may not be our own, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.400 or even seeing um that people living um thousands of 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.560 miles away can have common experiences, UH, that we face 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.440 and have common desires and loves and wants and and 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.640 UM fears. And I think that's part of the power 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:18.280 of art UM. But also obviously UM, like you said, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.920 those those small differences have inspired a lot of war, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.679 inspired a lot of discrimination, inspired slavery, and all these 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:32.600 other awful things. Holocausts are, you know, the most drastic 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.800 examples of violence and in humanity that we have. As well, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.360 we're often justified by people thinking that someone who looked 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.319 a little bit different or worshiped a little bit bit 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.439 differently wasn't human in the same way, or wasn't enough 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.240 like them too for them to feel empathy or love 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:54.080 towards them, And UM use their fear of their difference 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.760 to UM justify a lot of violence and in humanity. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.720 So we've seen all of that, UM. But I feel 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.920 like we're becoming more and more connected around the world. 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.000 I feel like we're learning more and more about how 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.839 much we have in common. I feel like we're seeing 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.640 each other more and more than we ever were before. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.320 We're living more closely together than we ever were before. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.680 And media has brought us together more so that we're 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.520 experiencing the same things more than we ever used to. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.280 And so part of me is optimistic, even though we're 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.440 in dark time sometimes and and sometimes we are really 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.480 in disagreement with losing leadership and and some of the 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.040 inhumanity that is as coming from our leadership. UM. I 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.719 think overall, in the ark of the world, I think 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.040 we're becoming closer together, and the world is becoming less 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.719 violent and and more empathetic, and we're helping each other 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.240 more than we ever used to. Thank you for that. UM, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.079 the way you cast the role of art, multiple modes 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.079 of it, it appeared to me as as UM, you've 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:02.080 got this bird's eye view from Manila to San Quentin, 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.400 Los Angeles, and you also have a bird's e view, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.360 and you know from the five million users of your platform, 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.240 which is one of many, but you you have a 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.840 particular window. What do you see? I mean, do you 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.400 have a parallel version of what John C's through being 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.760 in the field with the art and also seeing the divisions. 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.080 Are you seeing a similar level of connectivity but also 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.880 division in that scale that you have access to? I 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:28.680 think people, you know, you go back twenty years ago 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.560 when I was little and we moved, you know, my 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.920 parents would take us to Thailand and it was like 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.840 Oh my god, it's like shock, Like it's so it's 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.560 such a different you know, culture, it's a different people. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.680 We moved to France. It's just it was different, Like 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.520 it felt so different. And I think one of the 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.680 things that's interesting that we can start to portraying you 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.960 in your DNA is one we're appealing to your ego. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.080 It's all about you, like we just taught you all 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.720 about you, and you are fascinating, like everyone is fast 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:58.840 garantee guarantees succeing you are fascinating, and and suddenly it's 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.920 a sense of like I know myself and I'm fascinating, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.640 and holy cow, like I'm really similar to this person who, 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.120 like you know, lives in a tribe in rural Africa 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.239 and is totally different than me, and we're really similar, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.360 like genetically. Like the foundation Again, this isn't what we 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.560 started the company to do, but I actually think it's 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.960 a really beautiful consequence is that people do start to 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.760 recognize that they're more similar and in some ways, like 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.840 for me being sort of the nerdy scientists, like each 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:36.160 mutation that has made you slightly different, friends writer insulting me, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.200 we all have makes this because the mutations. But like 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.920 the reality is, like mutations are why we have this 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.440 spectacular people in the world. Like who's saying both, like 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.520 he's amazing because he has spectacular mutations that like that's why, 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.200 like he's evolved in such a way that he can 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.760 obviously run really fast. And you evolved in a way that, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.440 like your ancestors evolved so like you have darker skin 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.160 that protects you. Like people with like bright you know, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.280 blonde hair, blue eyes evolved in such a way so 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.200 that they could actually capture more sun. So because otherwise 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.280 you're not gonna get as much of like the nutrients 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.000 you need from your son from the sun. So every 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.120 every mutation is a story of survival. And and I 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.520 think when you can look at that and say, like 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.520 we're meant to evolve and we're meant to survive, and 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.800 because of that, you know, you can see this really 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.520 interesting in terms of like virus in in infectious diseases. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.800 So the nineteen eighteen flu which killed you know, uh, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.000 millions of people. I don't know if it's millions or 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.360 if it was a million um but there's certain people 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.160 who have a genetic mutation that make them resistant to it. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.040 The same thing with HIV. There's certain people on this 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.680 planet who are genetically resistant to HIV, and so similarly, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.200 like we're all meant to be a tiny bit different 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.480 to make sure that the next generation is going to 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.840 be even better than what we are today. And so 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.040 part of for me is celebrate ing that we do 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.480 have these like slight genetic differences because it gives me 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.040 hope that like in a thousand years, like it's going 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.439 to be even more interesting than it is today. And 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.520 that by appealing to the ego through the twenty three experience, 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.480 and like we teach you about you, you realize like 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.720 you're not You're just not that different. You're not that 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.879 different from other humans. You're actually genetically really similar. So 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.320 you have certain genes in your body that all different 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.000 living species have. And so you can look at your 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.919 DNA and what present of your DNA is similar to 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.520 a mouse, and we can see there's like certain things 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.480 that are really fundamental, like they have two eyes, a mouth, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.840 so that kind of thing, like those are conserved, like 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.680 you're you're actually and again, like my dream one day 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.800 and my team always is like, and um, I want this, 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.119 Like I want to map from the beginning of life 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.520 to have like when did we branch off? Like when 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.080 we're they're like different trees, and when did the mouse 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.879 and when of the humans? Like we're all connected, Like 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.240 I want the whole tree of life, like but it's 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.199 started from the same place, Like all really have that 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.080 similar Like that's why I love Like we have the 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.719 same like all of us have the same grandparents. So 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.520 like it's it's like it's so interesting and I think 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.520 that again, like the beauty of it is appealing to 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.240 the ego, Like let me teach you about you and 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.680 then we'll teach you about the world. Just pro tip 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:28.840 if you can't appeal to my ego. Mice like veloso raptor, eagle, lions, lions, panthers, 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.600 you know, hanging out more than my daughter. It was like, 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.840 I want to be related to the bonny rabbit, so 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:40.240 I need more time with you. He likes panthers like eagles, 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.960 lion the path. I love it. I love it. Okay, 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.240 Well let me find out those genetics of those, Okay, 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.760 I want I just basically I want scientific proof that 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:56.240 I'm black panthers, a black panther. That would be my 0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:01.560 follow up to I love it. Oh so so um 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.840 within your family, John, how do you all you have 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.680 a mixed race family children, you're talking about my my 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.639 wife and my kids, your wife and kids. How do 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.879 you all talk about your identities? How do you with 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.399 the narrative you build? Have you done the whole family 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.920 genetic tests? Well, our kids are old enough to really 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.040 talk about race. Yet. My family, my wife and I 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.119 are very aware of where we come from. And she's 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.960 a mixed race as well. And so she's one of 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:30.560 those people that looks like she could be a bunch 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.280 of things. So people ask her what are you all 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:38.360 the time? And she said, so, I feel like for 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.879 people that look like Chrissie, I think a lot of 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.479 times it's almost annoying how much you get asked what 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.560 you are all the time. But she's also proud of 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.800 her heritage. She's her mother was born and raised in 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:53.600 a village in Thailand, and her father, Um, his family 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:57.320 came from Northern Europe, Germany and Norway, and they moved 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.159 to America, you know, in the late dred early nine 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.119 for a better life and and uh and you know, 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.280 he's one of the first generations born here from a 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.600 family that came from Northern Europe and he met um 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.119 Chrissie's mom in Thailand, and Chrissy is the result of 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:19.199 that beautiful uh marriage. So, UM, when our kids grow up, 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.119 they're gonna have a grandmother who was born in a 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.960 village in Thailand, and they're gonna have my mother who 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.720 was born in Springfield, Ohio as an African American woman. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.880 And they're gonna have all of this interesting heritage, and 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.359 part of it will be the fun of learning about 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.920 the different cultures that they come from. Um, they're gonna 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:39.840 have Thai foo, They're gonna have so food, They're gonna 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.920 have you know, European American food. You know, they're gonna 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.240 have all of that. Um. And they're gonna travel the 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.040 world with us and and and hopefully they'll grow up 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.879 in a world that's even more loving and more accepting 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.320 of difference, uh than the one we grew up in. 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.840 And um, they'll have pride in their family ancestry as well. 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.720 And you've mentioned a couple of times that some of 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.080 what you're seeing through twenty three isn't what you exactly 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:13.359 planned for. Where else has what you've seen deviated from 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.200 what you expected? A couple of I think specifically actually 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:21.679 as relet in this conversation is UM the perceptions of race. UM. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.439 We see a lot of conversation about like what is 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.679