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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the barblas Sex Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Geezer. Butler's autobiography Into the Void From

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Speaker 1: Birth to Black Sabbath and Beyond, has just been published

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Speaker 1: in a paperback edition. Geezer, where are you right now?

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Speaker 2: Just outside Las Vegas in Henderson, Nevada?

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Speaker 1: And where do you normally reside?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes? Yeah, sometimes Park City, Utah and Lapworth in England.

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Speaker 1: How do you end up in Park City?

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Speaker 2: We used to. Me and my wife used to stay

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Speaker 2: with friends there every Christmas and I just loved it

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Speaker 2: there and love being up in the mountains and stuff

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Speaker 2: fight at So we ended up buying a house there

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Speaker 2: and we love living there, so we decided to buy

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Speaker 2: a bigger house. That's where we how we got there?

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Speaker 1: And are you a skier?

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Speaker 2: Nope? But my grandkids are. They come up every every

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Speaker 2: Christmas to go skiing and they come up in the

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Speaker 2: build there next week to go lying on the beach.

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Speaker 2: There is a nice little beach where we live and

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Speaker 2: a little lake that they like to go paddle board

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Speaker 2: and kayaking in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this deal in time. What's the difference in living

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Speaker 1: in the UK as opposed to living in the US.

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Speaker 2: Uh, mainly the weather. I just got back from the

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Speaker 2: UK literally three days ago and it was bloody for

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Speaker 2: a freezing It's like going from one extreme to the other.

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Speaker 2: It's like fifty eight degrees. When I left the UK

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Speaker 2: we landed in Las Vegas, it was one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifteen degrees.

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Speaker 1: And what about the politics. We hear all about Brexit,

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Speaker 1: We hear labor. You know what's going on in England.

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Speaker 2: Well, labor has just got in this allegedly for the

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Speaker 2: working class, but I don't ever believe it. Politicians are

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Speaker 2: ever for the working class. It's just a bit of

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Speaker 2: a mess over there. It's it's unrecognizable from when I

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Speaker 2: used to when I grew up there in the fifties

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Speaker 2: and sixties. It's more like West Pakistan.

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Speaker 1: However, there are you talking because of immigration or because

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Speaker 1: of other reasons?

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Speaker 2: A hell of a lot of immigration. We're in Birmingham

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Speaker 2: now it's it's more Muslim than Christian. So it's like

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Speaker 2: thirty two. I think it's thirty three percent Muslim, thirty

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Speaker 2: two say Christian, which is complete turnaround from when I

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Speaker 2: when I was born.

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Speaker 1: Now, wasn't Braxfast supposed to reduce immigration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but nobody ever believed that. I think only the

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Speaker 2: people that voted to come out of breakfait Brexit believe that.

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Speaker 2: But it's a lot of rubbish, especially if you're in

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Speaker 2: the music industry. Or it made it really hard for

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Speaker 2: up and coming bands to tour Europe because all the

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Speaker 2: restrictions on if you were from Britain had to pay

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Speaker 2: all extra taxes and stuff like that. When you touring,

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Speaker 2: you costs a lot more to tour.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you were growing up in Brunning here. When did

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Speaker 1: you first get interested in music? Mainly when I first

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Speaker 1: heard the Beatles. I mean I had three brothers and

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Speaker 1: three sisters, so there was always music going on. We

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Speaker 1: brothers loved Elvis and Eddie Cochran and Frank Sinatra. My

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Speaker 1: other sisters like Cliff Richard, people like and my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad liked loads of Irish music because they were

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Speaker 1: from Dublin.

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Speaker 2: So I used to get so there's all kinds of

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Speaker 2: music going on. There was like Irish folk songs, Irish

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Speaker 2: rebellion songs from the IRA, Elvis, Eddie Cocker and all

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Speaker 2: kinds of stuff going on. And then when I first

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Speaker 2: heard the Beatles, that's when I started getting into music.

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Speaker 1: So how did you hear the Beatles?

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Speaker 2: Well, pop music wasn't allowed on the radio in England

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Speaker 2: at the time, so there was this offshore radio station

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Speaker 2: called Radio Luxembourg. So if you wanted to hear pop music,

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Speaker 2: that's what you used to tune into every and that's

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Speaker 2: what I used to do, listen to Radio Luxembourg. And

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Speaker 2: then this one night the DJ says, who's a new

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Speaker 2: band from Liverpool called the Beatles, and this is called

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Speaker 2: Love Me Do? And it was like nothing else that

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Speaker 2: I'd ever heard before, and that was zero fell in

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Speaker 2: love with it. That's what I wanted to be a

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Speaker 2: Beatle from then on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the Beatles hit in America year Leader, if not

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Speaker 1: a year and a half lead, So you heard that song.

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Speaker 1: How long until beatle media took over in the UK?

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Speaker 2: It was probably that was probably in the winter when

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Speaker 2: Love Me Do came out, and then by the summer

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Speaker 2: it was like full on beetle maniac that put out

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Speaker 2: please Please Meet from me to you, and then when

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Speaker 2: She Loves You came out, it was like all hell broke.

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Speaker 1: And did you like the other Liverpool? The other so

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Speaker 1: called British vision was mostly the Beetles, Yeah, I like to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, nobody could touch the Beetles.

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Speaker 2: But when the Stones came along, I love the Stones

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Speaker 2: because they looked totally radical for that time, with long

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Speaker 2: hair the beetles or still woar suits and everything. And

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Speaker 2: when they went on stage they used to dress identical.

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Speaker 2: And when the Rolling Stones came along, they were the

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Speaker 2: first band to not wear the same clothes or suits

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that on stage, so they were completely

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Speaker 2: radical to us, and the hair was much longer. And

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Speaker 2: then the Kinks came along with the Who. It was

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Speaker 2: all kinds of bands.

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Speaker 1: So how long after the Beatles hit did you start

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Speaker 1: playing an instrument?

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Speaker 2: Well, luckily enough, I was at school at the time

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Speaker 2: and this kid at school was asking if anybody wanted

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Speaker 2: to buy a guitar, and I said, oh, yeah, I'm interested.

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Speaker 2: And this is like a battered old acoustic guitar with

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Speaker 2: two strings on and I said how much you I'm

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Speaker 2: for it and it is fifty pence, which is like

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Speaker 2: that's seventy cents. Of course, I didn't have money at

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Speaker 2: the time, so my brother lent me fifty pence which

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Speaker 2: is like seventy cents or wherever, and I bought the

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Speaker 2: guitar and I started playing all the Beatles melodies on

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Speaker 2: the two strings, and and that's where it started. That's

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Speaker 2: how it started.

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Speaker 1: Okay in Birmingham in America. I've never been to Birmingham.

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Speaker 1: We hear it's an industrial city. So what was Birmingham

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Speaker 1: like compared to the other cities in England when you

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Speaker 1: were growing up.

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Speaker 2: Well, Birmingham was the that's where the industrial Revolution started

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Speaker 2: in seventeen eighteenth Entry where the first factories were from,

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Speaker 2: and it was eventually it became the in the World

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Speaker 2: War Two. That's where they made all the planes and

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Speaker 2: tanks and engines and armament at the armament factories. So

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Speaker 2: it was like a massive city, just full of factories

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. And people looked at Birmingham as

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Speaker 2: the industrial capital of Britain, and it was like fairly

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Speaker 2: rough and ready. Where I lived, it was like opposite

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Speaker 2: two big factories. So I used to hear the noise

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Speaker 2: of the machines day in and day out, and you

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Speaker 2: were just destined to become, you know, a factory worker.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what did your father do for a living?

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Speaker 2: He worked at this play It's called Tube's Investments, which

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Speaker 2: was like he was. They made these great big sort

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Speaker 2: of anything to do with steel or metal, and he

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Speaker 2: used to pack all these big long scaffolding tubes and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, your appearents came from Ireland.

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Speaker 2: Why, I'm not sure why, but I don't think there

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Speaker 2: was much. There was no work in Ireland at the time.

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Speaker 2: My dad was in to try and get some money.

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Speaker 2: In the I think nineteen twenties, he joined the army,

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Speaker 2: the British Army, the Royal Scots Regiment and he was

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Speaker 2: in the army for twelve years and eventually when he

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Speaker 2: got demobed from from the army, he was looking for

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Speaker 2: work and there was none in Ireland. So that's how

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Speaker 2: they came to live in Birmingham, that's where the jobs were.

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Speaker 1: Now there are seven kids in your family, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Was that common in your neighborhood for people to have

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Speaker 1: that many kids?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was quite There's a lot of Irish where

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Speaker 2: we were living, a lot of Irish and Scottish. Eventually

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Speaker 2: a lot of Indians, Pakistanis and Jamaicans. But yeah, as

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Speaker 2: was a big Catholic area, so you know, it's a

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Speaker 2: lot of big, big families around there.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the book you describe a horrid scrabble living

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Speaker 1: in a small house with an outhouse in the back.

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Speaker 1: You know what was it like?

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Speaker 2: It was freezing in winter time. I mean the tilet

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Speaker 2: used to freeze up, and everything you have to get

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Speaker 2: you have to buy all some water on the gas

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Speaker 2: stove to pour it over the ice in the toilet

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Speaker 2: and used that as to flush the toilet. You left

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Speaker 2: to bile water on this gas stove so you could

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Speaker 2: flush the toilet. Of course, there was no heating in

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Speaker 2: the house. There used to be frost on the insides

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Speaker 2: of the windows in winter. No bathroom, no hot water,

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Speaker 2: so any hot water you'd have to buile. And only

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Speaker 2: electricity in the living room, so you could only plug

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Speaker 2: anything in in the living room unless you unless you

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Speaker 2: plugged stuff into the light socket.

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Speaker 1: At what age did you have plumbing in the house?

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Speaker 2: We never did not until I left home. We used

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Speaker 2: to go to the local the local swimming baths was

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Speaker 2: a Victorian place and they used to have socialized bathing,

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Speaker 2: so you could go and have a bath the local

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Speaker 2: swimming baths. When my sister got married, she had a

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Speaker 2: bathroom in the house, so we all we used to

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Speaker 2: go down there once a week to have a bath

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Speaker 2: in her house.

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Speaker 1: So how large was the house that you grew up in?

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Speaker 2: It was two rooms downstairs a kitchen and then upstairs

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Speaker 2: three bedrooms and an attic. But it got quite a

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Speaker 2: battering during World War two, so there was that some

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Speaker 2: of the roof got blown off in the house, and

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Speaker 2: in England it didn't. England didn't really recover until the

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Speaker 2: late sixties from World War two, and Birmiham, because it

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Speaker 2: was so industrial, got an absolute battering by the luff Waffer.

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Speaker 2: So there was a bomb buildings, bomb building sites up

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Speaker 2: until like nineteen sixty five around where I lived. But

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Speaker 2: we used to go and play amongst all the rubble.

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Speaker 1: And what about the availability, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 1: rationing in television, when did all that end or come about?

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Speaker 2: Rationing wasn't finished until nineteen fifty five. So when I

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Speaker 2: used to go errands for me, mom and I used

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Speaker 2: to have to take the ration book and you'd show

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Speaker 2: them the ration book and she'd mark off like butter

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Speaker 2: potatos wherever, and then they like way the potatoes or

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Speaker 2: the butter mark it off in your ration book and

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Speaker 2: that a bit, and then you take it home and

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Speaker 2: as I say, that didn't finish until nineteen fifty five.

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Speaker 2: We didn't have a television until nineteen fifty seven because

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Speaker 2: the local football teams in the cup final. Here comes me.

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Speaker 1: So when rationing ended as a practical matter as a

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Speaker 1: little kid, how did it affect you?

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Speaker 2: It didn't really affect me. I mean we obviously I

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Speaker 2: saw an orange for the first time. Sure, you know,

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Speaker 2: finally got fruit. Him comes with cat. Uh, just just

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Speaker 2: got different food. I suppose a bit more more more

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: And what about candy? You're a kid, we used to I.

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Speaker 2: Used to buy candy with pocket money because because I

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Speaker 2: had three brothers and three sisters, my mom and dad,

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Speaker 2: I used to get quite a bit of pocket money

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Speaker 2: every week so I could go across to the sweet

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Speaker 2: shop and you know, stuck up on wherever sweets I

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Speaker 2: could have.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there are seven kids in the family. Where are

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Speaker 1: you in the hierarchy?

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Speaker 2: I was the seventh, so you were the youngest? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: How did the other six kids? What are they? What

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Speaker 1: were their lives?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Boy? Maybe eldest sister got married when I I think

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Speaker 2: one years old. She got married in I think nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty or nineteen fifty one, so I didn't really know

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Speaker 2: her a lot. I used to go into the house

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Speaker 2: because she lived just around the corner. Then there's another sister,

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Speaker 2: more than three brothers, and then another sister, and then

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Speaker 2: me and everybody used to go to work, except when

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Speaker 2: I was at school that me and my sister were

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Speaker 2: at school together and everybody else was working.

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Speaker 1: So you have this big success as a rock store,

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Speaker 1: do your family do they ask for money? Do you

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Speaker 1: have to support them? Or what happened there?

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Speaker 2: No fact, My family was so proud that never ever

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Speaker 2: ever asked me for money. And when I finally did

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Speaker 2: sees money coming in, I think after the second album

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Speaker 2: did well and the twos started doing well, and I

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Speaker 2: tried to buy my mom and dad a little house

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Speaker 2: away from Aston and my dad was like, really insulted

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Speaker 2: by it. This is what's married. Isn't this house good

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Speaker 2: enough for you anymore? And no, I didn't mean it

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Speaker 2: like that. I just wanted to see you getting barness.

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Speaker 2: Look on the head of this household. If I want

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Speaker 2: a new house, I'll buy it. I do own any

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Speaker 2: money from you. And that was the attitude of all family,

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Speaker 2: and we're they proud of your success. Yeah, but of

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Speaker 2: course nobody expected it to like last. Everybody thought it

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Speaker 2: was like a flash in the pan, which is why

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Speaker 2: my mom and dad would never take any money off me.

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Speaker 2: That obviously, keep your money, save it up for when,

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Speaker 2: you know, when this is all over, and then never

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Speaker 2: see it last very long.

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Speaker 3: Now, were you good with the money when it came

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Speaker 3: in or not so good? I was very careful because

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Speaker 3: I knew what it was like to not have any money.

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Speaker 3: And I was a bit silly really, because everybody else

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Speaker 3: in the band were like found them the manager manager

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Speaker 3: sence the thousand dollars tomorrow and they'd be getting all

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Speaker 3: this money. And I'd say to the manager, or just

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Speaker 3: keep mine, you know, from when I'm older, so I've

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Speaker 3: got something to fall back on, And of course the

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Speaker 3: manager stole it all.

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Speaker 1: Dislead. Do you get royalties?

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Speaker 2: Do a depth get them now? Yeah? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And you know we're living in an era where a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are selling their royalties. Would you ever

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Speaker 1: do that?

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Speaker 2: I think we've sold some of the cattle out, but

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Speaker 2: not all of it. It depends on what they're offering.

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Speaker 2: But at this point, you own everything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now you were a smart kid right at school?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I got enough qualifications to become an accountant,

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Speaker 2: or at least apply for the job of an accountancy,

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Speaker 2: which meant you had to have like certain educational qualifications

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Speaker 2: just to get the just to get an interview for

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Speaker 2: the job. And so that's what I thought, I was

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Speaker 2: going to be an accountant.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when was it evident in school that you were

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Speaker 1: smarter than the average kid?

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Speaker 2: Well, I did well in my exams. There was three tiers.

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Speaker 2: Each year had three tiers. There was Alpha, A, and B.

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Speaker 2: Alpha was the top stream, the most intelligent ones. And

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Speaker 2: I was always in the Alpha stream.

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Speaker 1: And did the as the kids criticize you for doing well?

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Speaker 2: No, because on my mates are in the same class.

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Speaker 1: And then didn't you get some kind of scholarship to

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Speaker 1: go to a better school.

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Speaker 2: No, you had to have a certain amount of qualifications

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Speaker 2: to be able to go to college or university, but

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Speaker 2: you had to spend an extra two years at school.

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to leave when I was sixteen, So

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Speaker 2: I left when I was sixteen, And because I applied

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Speaker 2: to be an account and I went to college like

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Speaker 2: twice a week, but I could never get there on time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but you're a pretty airly day guy. You're a

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Speaker 1: big reader, and you're a lyricist for Black Sabbath for

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Speaker 1: most of the songs. Where did you love of reading

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Speaker 1: come along?

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Speaker 2: I think it was just like, because it's such a

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Speaker 2: big family, I used to like to get quiet time

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Speaker 2: away from everybody, and there was nothing really on television

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Speaker 2: or anything like that, so I used to hide in books.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't all sociable as well. Well, I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I just like reading.

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Speaker 1: And are you're still a reader today?

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Speaker 2: I'm addict.

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Speaker 1: I have to.

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Speaker 2: I have to be reading a book every day.

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Speaker 1: So what are you reading now?

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Speaker 2: Right at this moment, I'm reading? Oh gosh, so I

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Speaker 2: keep forgetting them. That's all a lot. I'm reading a

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Speaker 2: Lucy Fowley book. I love. It's like light crime stuff tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: I like The Midnight Feast by Lucy Fowley.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, and we were her first book. So the

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Speaker 1: Beatles cover long. You buy the guitar with two strings

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Speaker 1: for fifty peens, then what's the next step?

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Speaker 2: I got really good at My brother used to bring

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Speaker 2: his mates around to watch me play the Beatles melodies

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Speaker 2: on these two strings. Of course, they loved it. So

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Speaker 2: my brother eventually gave me enough money to go and

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Speaker 2: buy an eight six string guitar, like a proper guitar,

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Speaker 2: which was at eight pounds, which was about twelve dollars.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I started really taking it seriously and

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Speaker 2: started learning chords, learning all the Beatles songs. Then eventually

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Speaker 2: some salts when Tamla Motow and stuff all sold, stuff

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Speaker 2: things like that, and then when the Cream came out,

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Speaker 2: I got really serious. Then that's when I bought an

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Speaker 2: electric guitar Fender and started by taking it really seriously.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you say you're learning these Beatles songs, do

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Speaker 1: you own the records or you just hearing them on

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Speaker 1: the radio.

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Speaker 2: Now, when we brother used to love the Beatles as well,

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Speaker 2: so he used to give me the money to go

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Speaker 2: and buy the Beatles records and we listened to them together,

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Speaker 2: and then when he was at work, I'd like sit

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Speaker 2: down and learn the cords.

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Speaker 1: And how many records did you? Did you own a

339
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Speaker 1: lot of records or was money limited?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Money was very limited, very scarce, sort of sort

341
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Speaker 2: of limited to each Beatle single. Every time an album

342
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Speaker 2: of the Beatles came out, we'd have that. I bought

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Speaker 2: Stone albums, so it's mainly the top three, the Stones,

344
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Speaker 2: Beatles and Kinks. And then eventually when I when I

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Speaker 2: went to work, I loved the Mothers of Invention and

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Speaker 2: bought their stuff. Then the Cream came along, Hendrix and

347
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Speaker 2: so on and so forth. Then Miss Sister used to like

348
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Speaker 2: Jerry and the Pacemakers, those kind of bands swinging blue jeans,

349
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Speaker 2: Billy J. Kramer.

350
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Speaker 1: So you say you were really influenced by Queen? How

351
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: did your first year a Queen?

352
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Speaker 2: Funnily enough, there was a poster right opposite where I

353
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Speaker 2: used to live saying the new supergroup from Eric Clapton,

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Speaker 2: because Eric Clapton is from John Male's Blues Breakers, And

355
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Speaker 2: there was this big post saying it's like the first

356
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Speaker 2: time I'd ever heard the the expression of supergroup. And

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Speaker 2: they had Eric Clapton, who heard of Jack Bruce, who

358
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard of, Ginger Baker, who had never heard

359
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: of and they were playing at one of the local gigs.

360
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: So I went to see him and I just loved it,

361
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: love what I was hearing.

362
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: So did you buy the album Fresh Queen?

363
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah?

364
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: And uh, what are some of your favorite songs? On

365
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: that album. If you remember Oh.

366
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: God, Sunshine of Your Lovers on that.

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Speaker 1: Now that was on the second first one was I

368
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: Feel Free a NSU.

369
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel Free of that because that there, that

370
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: was a single in England, they were on top of

371
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Speaker 2: the pops. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so you knew clapt In from the Bluesbreakers.

373
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Speaker 2: Yeah, from John Miles Bluesbreakers, which is I mean, that's

374
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Speaker 2: my first band. It was a mixture of John Myles,

375
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: was the Blues Breakers, songs, Beat All Stones, Eddie flyd

376
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: Sam and Dave, just a mixture of everything that was

377
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Speaker 2: going on at the time.

378
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: So you heard Queen and you started taking it seriously.

379
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: What did that look like?

380
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: It meant buying a better guitar, which is what I did.

381
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: I bought himself a Fender tally Cast and started really

382
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: getting down to it, proper amp and just really taking

383
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: everything seriously and desperately wanting to turn professional and do

384
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: that for a living.

385
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: And what did you what was your first ear?

386
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: It was a bird golden eagle and I've never seen

387
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: one since, and I've never heard of one since.

388
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: I never heard of that. And where did you get

389
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: the money for the stratocaster in the air with the telecaster.

390
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: From the money I saved up from work going to work,

391
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: and I think my mom helped me out with some

392
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: of her savings. And from there.

393
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so you have the telecaster, you had the you're

394
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: working on it. What is the next step, You try

395
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: to form the band?

396
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: No, I was in the band. The first band was

397
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: called the Rooms, which is after some science fiction person.

398
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: I can't remember his name. There it was a book

399
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: by It's a book called The Rooms science fiction. We

400
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: took the name from that, and then eventually we changed

401
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: the name. The drummer and the bass player left, so

402
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: it got formed another band and call that the Rare Breed.

403
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you got your fifty pence guitar, your brother

404
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: buys you a better guitar. Where along the line do

405
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: you form a band?

406
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty five, Oh, I bought at Huffma, Colorado. That

407
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: was my first electric guitar and it was like, I

408
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: think it's about thirty dollars or something. That was my

409
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: first real guitar that you could plug in. And so

410
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty five, who formed the best mate from school?

411
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: It was band called the Rooms. Then the drummer left.

412
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: Basically left.

413
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: So where where you formed that band? Where did you rehearse?

414
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: There was this a school hall that we used to

415
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: rehearse at the local school hall.

416
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: And then did you have any kids?

417
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: We've got one of this girl that fancied me had

418
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: a birthday party and she wanted us to play at

419
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: her birthday party. So that was that was very for

420
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: the ski. I think we were all about sixteen at

421
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: the time.

422
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: And did you have any peeing gigs with this band?

423
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: And how often did you play?

424
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: I get paid? I think eventually we did, but we

425
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: get like, I think five ten pounds at the most,

426
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: just enough to put petrol in the car to get there.

427
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: Oh and how often would you play?

428
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: Just weekends at that particular time because we all had jobs.

429
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: Okay, So the two members of the band quit and

430
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: then the next step is.

431
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: Got another a singer, and we started doing more heavier

432
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: stuff like the cream and stuff like that. When we

433
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: became the rare Breed and we started building up a

434
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: bit of a following, and I really wanted to I

435
00:28:54,160 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: hated going to work, couldn't stand it. Eventually fired from

436
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: work for turning up at four o'clock in the afternoon,

437
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: and I just says, that's him. I'm just going to

438
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: lost my job, so I'm just going to do this

439
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: professionally or as much as I could do. And the

440
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: rest of the band didn't want to do it professionally.

441
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: So the singer got a job on a ship going

442
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: to Australia. So who he left And that's when I

443
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: got into Ozzie And that's when Ozzie joined the band.

444
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: So how did you know Arsie? How did you meet ars.

445
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: I used to see him. He used to be a

446
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: skinhead and he used to go to all the salt clubs.

447
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: There was two major clubs in Bermiham at the time

448
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: and used to have all these all nighters. There was

449
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: the salt place called Midnight City. I used to have

450
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: all the salt bends. I'm not mid Gino Washington people

451
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: like that. And then there's the surf side, the Penthouse,

452
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: which is the blues people with long hair used to go.

453
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: That's where I used to go. And then every Sunday

454
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: they used to finish at about five o'clock of a

455
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: Sunday morning both places, and I'd see I was walking

456
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: at home on one side of the road and I'd

457
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: be on the other side. Never the twain should meet

458
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: because he was the skinhead and hippie. And then when

459
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: we were looking for a singer for the Rare Breed,

460
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: I went to the local music shop to see if

461
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: they knew any singers, and I saw this advert saying

462
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: Ossy Zig needs a gig and he had his address

463
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: on it large road, which was right around the corner

464
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: from where I lived. So I thought that looks promising.

465
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: So I went round to his house, not knowing that

466
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: it was the uh, the skinhead that I used to see.

467
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: And his sister said, I was not in at the

468
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: moment watching your address. I said Victoria Road and she said,

469
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: that's only two streets away. I'll be he'll come rent

470
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: tonight when he comes home. So then that night there

471
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: was a knock on the door. My brother went to

472
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: open the door. He came. My brother came and said, hey,

473
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: there's there's something at the door for you. I said,

474
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: what do you mean something?

475
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: It is?

476
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: You'll see when I went to see who it was,

477
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: and there was Ossie Skinhead with his dad's work gown on,

478
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: chimney brush over his shoulder, a sneaker on, a dog leash,

479
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: and no shoes on. And I said, yeah, what do

480
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: you want? She is on Ossie the singer. I said,

481
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: what kind of stuff are you into? And this is

482
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: whatever you're into, I mean and and he says, and

483
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: I've got my MPa and you're in. And that was it.

484
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: Okay, certainly those of us were fans aware of Assi,

485
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: but Ozzie had his MTV show. You know, we see

486
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: different sizes of Assie. Some level, he's like a cartoon,

487
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: but there's an artistic sense inside when you meet him

488
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: back then, what is ours like.

489
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: A complete lunatic. It just got out of prison and

490
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: he was up for anything. He'd do anything for a

491
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: laugh or it been to anything, and it was just

492
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: really great to get on with, great to be around.

493
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: He lasted two gigs in the Radberry and he says,

494
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: this isn't for me. I own to sing this stuff.

495
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: So he left and I'll just say to the rest

496
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: of the band, okay, I'm leaving as well. So eventually

497
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: me and Ozzie got together and we were looking for

498
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: a drummer.

499
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: Right wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait a

500
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: little bit slower. So you do the two gigs with Ozzie.

501
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: You're playing blues Insvilo and stuff you're playing? What are

502
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: you actually playing that he doesn't agree with.

503
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: He liked what we were doing, but we weren't very good.

504
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: He thought, you know, that he could do better. He

505
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: didn't like the fact that the guitarist and the bass

506
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: player didn't want to know about going professional.

507
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: And why did Ozzie have his own pa?

508
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: Do you know? I've absolutely no idea. I think he

509
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: must have been in a band before I knew him.

510
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so he leaves the band. You leave the band.

511
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: You don't have your job as an accountant anymore. What

512
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: gone to your head.

513
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: That I need to make some money somehow? And somewhere

514
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: at the time I was getting I was on benefits,

515
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: getting doll like every week, which only lasted six weeks

516
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: in those days, and then they'd throw you off. So

517
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 2: I just I was desperate to find get some money.

518
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 2: And I got a little bit saved up, which kept

519
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: me afloat for a while. And me and obviously got together,

520
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: and he had he'd got a band together with this

521
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: rhythm guitarist who used to play slide slide guitar and

522
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: this bass plan so the bass player, this black kid

523
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 2: on bass. So I said, okay, let's have a go,

524
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: and the Black kids said, I don't be in this band,

525
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: so I'm leaving. So I said, okay, I'll switch to

526
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: bass then, and that's how we got together, and then

527
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: we needed a drama.

528
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: Well where before you get to the drummer? How did

529
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: you learn how to play bass?

530
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: I just picked it up. I think a lot of

531
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: it was from when I when I had my first

532
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 2: two string guitar and I used to play the melodies

533
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: just on the two strings, So I got used to

534
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: playing melodies on just melodies on strings. So when I

535
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: got the bass, it sort of lent itself to that

536
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: the way you know, the two strings thing became a

537
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: four string thing, and I went from there.

538
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: Okay, are you the type of prits on? People are

539
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: a musical They can pick up any instrument play. Other

540
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: people have to really work at it. Where are you

541
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: on the spectrum?

542
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: Bass? Is like I was born into play bass. I

543
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: just knew what to do since I picked the base up.

544
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: And did you ever take any lessons?

545
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: Nope, nope, nobody took lessons about them.

546
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: So you've got as you need a drummer, So tell

547
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: me about getting the drummer.

548
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: Well, Tony Iomi and Bill Ward had just been busted.

549
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: They had a band up in the north of England

550
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: in Carlisle. They'd been busted for drugs and they were

551
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: back home in Birmingham, and they just so happened to

552
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 2: live literally two streets away from where I lived. And

553
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: so Ozzie knew Tony used to go to school with him,

554
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: and Ozzie said, told me about Tony and Bill being

555
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: busted and coming back home to Aston in Birmingham, and

556
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: he says, let's go and see if if Bill if

557
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: Tony can give us the address of Bill Ward, the drummer.

558
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: So we went around to Tony's house and it just

559
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 2: so happened Bill was there. We said, speak to Bill Ward.

560
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 2: Billboard came out and he says, yeah, what do you want.

561
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: He says, we're looking for a drummer for our band.

562
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: And he says, what kind of stuff you're doing? This

563
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: is cream Hendrix, that kind of thing, blues, a lot

564
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 2: of blues stuff, and he says, we all give it

565
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: a go, but on one condition, Tony Iomi comes with

566
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 2: me and we went okay, and that's the way we've formed.

567
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: And what happened to the original guitarist.

568
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: We did a gig with We went back up north

569
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: to where Tony and Bill had built up the reputation,

570
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: but we couldn't use We couldn't let them know that

571
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: it was Tony and Bill. The police would have arrested them.

572
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: So we just made up a name of the for

573
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: a band, and we called it the Polka Talk Blues Band,

574
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: and we went back up to Carlisle and did two gigs.

575
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: The rhythm guitarists, I mean, the slide guitarist just didn't

576
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 2: fit in whatsoever. He kept playing the slide guitar over

577
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: absolutely everything that we were doing. And we had a

578
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: sax player as well. I forgot about him, and he

579
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: used to keep The only thing he knew how to

580
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: play was Take five by what's his name, Dave brew Becker.

581
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 2: So every time he came to a sax alo, he'd

582
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: played Take five. So we knew that wasn't going to last.

583
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: So we got back to birmiham Tony m He says,

584
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 2: I'm not playing with them too, they're out the band.

585
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: So he says, yeah, okay, fine, So that the four

586
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: of us got together. I played them I quite a

587
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: few records blue stuff, and I said this is what

588
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: we should be playing, and John Mail all this blue stuff,

589
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: bb King, Albert King, all that kind of muddy waters,

590
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: Howling Wolf say let's play this stuff, and I tell

591
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: you and yes it's good, sounds good, but we need

592
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: another name. So we changed the name to Earth. Billboard

593
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: came up with the name Earth and became a blues band.

594
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: And what do you do for gigs? We used to

595
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 2: go still go back up north of Scotland and Carlisle

596
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: play all these really really rough places. You used to

597
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: have to dodge the bottles and everything every night and

598
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: be careful that somebody didn't break your arm. And we

599
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: built up a really big following up there. And we

600
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 2: came back to Birmingham and there's this guy in Birmingham

601
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: called Jim Simpson and he used to manage a lot

602
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: of the Birmingham bands and he had this club called

603
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: Henry's Blues House and it was in a pub in

604
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: the middle of Birmingham and we just we said, let's

605
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: go an audition for Jim Simpson, so if he's interested

606
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 2: in getting us gigs, because he was quite a big

607
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: night it was nim around Birmingham and we auditioned for him.

608
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: This is yeah, you can play here every week at

609
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: Blues House and I'll get you some gigs. So he

610
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 2: used to get us like all these little club gigs

611
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: around around England and eventually we built up a big following.

612
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: Then why do you think you built up there far?

613
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: What was special about the Beard?

614
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: Because we were good. We were really good Ozzie singing

615
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: Tommy and we're one of the best guitarists ever, Bill

616
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: Ward one of the best drummers ever, and me on

617
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: bass one of the worst bass players. It just worked.

618
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 2: We were really good.

619
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: And at what point do you start writing original macterial.

620
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: We got booked at this place in Derbyshire and we

621
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: turned up and everybody was like in like wedding again,

622
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: wedding attire suits and the women had these long dresses on. God,

623
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 2: this is a strange gig. So we started playing and

624
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: the promoter came out, what are you doing? What are

625
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: you playing that stuff for? This is what you mean?

626
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: She plays played some of your singles. I mean, we

627
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 2: haven't got any singles. And it was a completely different

628
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: earth it was. It was a total band that used

629
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: to play weddings and stuff. So we got booked the

630
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: wrong place, so we just says, right, that's it. We've

631
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: got to start writing our own stuff. And like we

632
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: just you know, we can't keep playing these same places

633
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: all the time getting mis booked. And so that's when

634
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 2: we used to play this place in Literfield in just

635
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: outside Birmiham called the Pokey Hole Club and it was

636
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: the Blues Club. And the morning of the gig, we

637
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: wrote the song Black Sabbath and we said, we did

638
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 2: the usual gig that night and two like people were

639
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: used to hearing, you know, the usual twelve bar blue stuff,

640
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 2: and we just said, I said, let's do that song

641
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: that we wrote today, and so we tried it and

642
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: the crowd went absolutely mental and we realized that, you know,

643
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: we were on the right track. So what hey to,

644
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: what we were doing was good enough to keep writing,

645
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 2: and that was it. Never looked back.

646
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: How did you literally write there are four guys in

647
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: a room. How did it come to be?

648
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: We used to have this rehearsal room swimming baths in

649
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: Aston and it was owned by the council and so

650
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: from nine o'clock to twelve o'clock before the swimming baths opened,

651
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:42,439
Speaker 2: the dlarrus rehearsing there for free. And this one day,

652
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: I just bought this that LP called the Holts this

653
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: Planet Suite, and I loved the Mars that was on it.

654
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: When we were rehearsing, I was playing that on the

655
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: base and Tony went, oh, that sounds good and he

656
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: goes down. That's that's how Black Sabbath came about the song.

657
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: And Okay, at this point, was the being still called

658
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: Black Earth or was it now Black Saba.

659
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: Because that song went down so well, which was called

660
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: Black Sabbath because we've been mistaken for the other Earth,

661
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,959
Speaker 2: I said, let's just let's just call the band Black

662
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: Sabbath then. So that's what happened.

663
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you wrote that song, you got a good response.

664
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: How did you end up breaking the rest of the songs?

665
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: Well, that gave us the confidence to start writing, and

666
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: we still hated to do these really crap gigs. It

667
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: was one in Switzerland that we had to play for

668
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: two weeks and we had to do like eight forty

669
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: five minutes spots every day, but we only had enough

670
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: material for one hour. So the only thing we could

671
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: do is start writing our own stuff to fill in

672
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: the time. And we used to play at the Star

673
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: Club in Hamburg, which is the same kind of thing.

674
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: You'd have to play eight forty five minute spots. So

675
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: to fill in all the time, we used to write

676
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: our own stuff, use it as writing because there's never

677
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: any audience the place. In Switzerland, I think we've got

678
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 2: two people in every day, and Hamburg, you Star club

679
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: in Hamburg, you'd only get people in of the weekend

680
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: when there was a headliner that act on. The people knew,

681
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: so we had all this time to ourselves, but we

682
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: still had to play. So we used to just jam

683
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: and eventually write most of the first album most of

684
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: the second album.

685
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you're saying you're playing in these clubs it's today,

686
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: and literally nobody.

687
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: Is there, Nobody whatsoever was maybe the one in Zurich

688
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: was a couple of prostitutes and an occasional lunatic would

689
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: come in and do these really stupid things to try

690
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: and put us off playing. I mean, one guy used

691
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 2: to stand on his head in front of the stage

692
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: while we were playing. Another guy came in playing a

693
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: flute all the way through our set, just things like

694
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: and another guy came in clapping and laughing all the

695
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: way through our set. And that's only get two prostitutes

696
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: and three lunatics.

697
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: Okay, why were these clubs ping you at all if

698
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: there was no one there?

699
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: Well, the guy the one in Switzerland, he was nuts.

700
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: He thought he was a doctor, the guy that owned it,

701
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: and he used to have to call him doctor and

702
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: completely mental. He used to come in with his doctor's bag,

703
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: nothing in it. And it was quite a big club,

704
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: but we had to play opposite the bar. He wouldn't

705
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: let us plan on the stage. So yeah, it's just

706
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: like these Star club used to play. I mean we'd

707
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 2: only get like ten quid a week, which is nothing,

708
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: maybe twenty pounds a week, which is like thirty dollars

709
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: a week. But we didn't have any money, so we'd

710
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: do anything to you know, you'd have to survive.

711
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: So what late lessons did you learn in Zurich and

712
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: at the Star Club? And we read all about the

713
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: Beatles and the people they met in town and drugs

714
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: and women. What was it late for you guys? Well?

715
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 2: Very garcity of women. The Star Club was okay because

716
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: that was like on the Big Barn, which was there

717
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: all prostitutes and brothels and h gay bars. Everything was there,

718
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: and any kind of life was there. And I used

719
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: to get like transvest i to grapy beards. We're being

720
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: the club next door to ours, and it used to

721
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: be you just suddenly went from a very closed Irish

722
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: Catholic upbringing just seeing all kinds of things going on.

723
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 2: Because there was no money and I was a vegetarian.

724
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: I practically staff to death. Only had I only ever

725
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 2: could do once a week and that was usually fries

726
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: pomfrets is the gall and then so yeah, it was

727
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: tough going. But what we realized, if we could survive that,

728
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: then we could survive anything that was like the lowest

729
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: of the low that you could get, and anything.

730
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: Else was like heaven. Okay, so you left Hamburg, you

731
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: came back to Birmingham. What was the next step after that?

732
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: Well, just at that particular time, just before we went

733
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: to the Germany, we'd recorded the first album.

734
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: When you went to Zurich, Did you have a record deal?

735
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: Not at that particular time, but between Zurich because we

736
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: played Hamburg three times the Star Club, So we did

737
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: Zurich and when we can't got back to England, the

738
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: manager had got us a record deal and we literally

739
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 2: went into the studio for one day. Did the album

740
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: that we'd sort of perfected while we were in Zurich

741
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 2: and then straight back to Germany to the Star Club.

742
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: Okay, was this the scene manager who was booking the gigs.

743
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the ones where it's a you can get

744
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: the when you do the gig, they'll give you the

745
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: money on the night, and then you go and get

746
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: the money and go to try and get the money,

747
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: and I know we sent it to your manager. So

748
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: it's like we were literally when we got to Zurich,

749
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 2: we were starving. We went to try and get the

750
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: money off this bloody lunatic doctor and it's oh no,

751
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 2: it's sent it to your manager. So we didn't have anything,

752
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: any money. We had to borrow some money off these

753
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: prostitutes to try and get some food. Uh yeah, that's

754
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 2: the way.

755
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: Was Okay, So was this your big dream to get

756
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: a record deal? Did you think you were going to

757
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: be successful?

758
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, that's what you're in a band for, to

759
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: go a record deal. That's like the pinnacle of your

760
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 2: all you could ever hope for. And we didn't know

761
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: anything about record deals. We didn't know. We didn't know

762
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: you got paid to upfront or things like our We

763
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about publishing. You didn't. We didn't realize

764
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: you got paid for writing songs. We were totally green,

765
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: real ultra thicicos, and we were just happy to go

766
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: in the studio and be able to listen to what

767
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: we were doing for the first time in our lives.

768
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 2: And we were only in the studio for two days.

769
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you were in the studio the record was cut.

770
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 1: When you heard the record, were you happy with the record?

771
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: I loved it, Yeah, But we didn't hear it until

772
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: the week before it came out, so we didn't have

773
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 2: a clue it was going to sound like. The only

774
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 2: thing that we heard was there was a single called

775
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 2: Evil Woman on it, and that's the only thing that

776
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 2: we heard before the album. We never heard the album.

777
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,959
Speaker 2: We heard the single and literally not until a week

778
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 2: before the album was released.

779
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: And the album comes out. How long does it take

780
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: do you realize it's catching.

781
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 2: Har It went in the charts straight away. We did.

782
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 2: We were going up to it. We had a gig

783
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: in Manchester and we were in the van going up

784
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: to this gig and there used to be there used

785
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: to be a countdown of the album charts every Saturday

786
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: that count down the top thirty albums on the radio,

787
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: and we always used to listen to the album charts

788
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 2: and we had the radio on in the van and

789
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 2: the guy at number twenty seven what we couldn't believe it.

790
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: We nearly crashed the van and we're all like celebrating

791
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: in the van. We never thought it was going to.

792
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: Be what was driving adoption? How did people know about

793
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: it to buy it?

794
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: Because of the we built up this whole following around

795
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 2: England and we didn't realize how loyle these fans were

796
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: going to be. You know, it's one thing building up

797
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: people coming to see you in clubs, and it's another

798
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: thing for those people to go and actually buy your album.

799
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 2: And of course we used to say, you know, after

800
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 2: all the gig gigs we we do, so this is

801
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: from our new album which will be out in February,

802
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: and you don't really think anything much of it, and

803
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: then eventually people take notice of what you're saying and

804
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: they went out and bought it.

805
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,959
Speaker 1: Okay, the first black sat with the album. At that time.

806
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: In terms of heavy hard rock music, Zeppelin was about

807
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: at the extreme and then Sabbath comes out and it's

808
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: heavier than that. Were you conscious of the fact that

809
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: the music got a certainly heavy quality. Were you just saying, hey,

810
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,439
Speaker 1: this is just what we're doing.

811
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 2: It was just what we were doing. I mean we

812
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 2: were obviously we were aware of led Zeppelin because they

813
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 2: were from to Plenty and Bonham were from Birmiham, just

814
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: outside Bermiam, and we knew them. We used to see

815
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 2: him at the clubs all the time, and so you

816
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: know that gave us confidence when we heard the first

817
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: Zeppelin album that what we were doing could be successful

818
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 2: as well. And we didn't think, oh, let's get heavier

819
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: than led Zeppelin or anything like that. It was just

820
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: a lot of the fact was Tony's. A lot of

821
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 2: it was down to Tony's having to wear thimbles on

822
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 2: his fingers because he had two of the ends of

823
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 2: his fingers were cut off, so he had to wear

824
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 2: these thimbles, and eventually he had to tune the guitar

825
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: down so he could feel the strings through the thimbles.

826
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 2: Wouldn't because if he kept it up to pitch, he'd

827
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: play with these thimbles and it had knocked the thimbles

828
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 2: off and he couldn't play. So he tuned the guitar

829
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: down three semitones and that let him get more grip

830
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: on the strings, and that's how the whole sound came about.

831
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're driving in the band to Liverpool. You

832
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: hear the album's number twenty seven. What changes.

833
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: Not a lot at that time, because it was still

834
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 2: getting like thirty dollars a night. We'd been booked for

835
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: them solidly for six months. It didn't matter that the

836
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 2: album was in the charts. We were still like getting

837
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 2: thirty dollars a night. But it gave us the confidence

838
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: to realize that what we were doing, we were on

839
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: the right path. And more importantly, the record company wanted

840
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: it wanted to give us a follow up deal, and

841
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: by the success of the first album, we were able

842
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: to record a second album. So that's the main thing

843
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: about it.

844
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so the first album comes out, you're not starting

845
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: to play larger rules, you're not making any more money.

846
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: It's like nothing has changed.

847
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 2: Not live now, because you know, we were contracted for

848
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 2: like six months worth of gigs before the album came out,

849
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: so it's like for pittance every night. But we were

850
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 2: just happy to play and build up the following and

851
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: eventually the venues were getting bigger, and promoters would say, Okay,

852
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: we're going to put them in a bigger venue and

853
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 2: give them more money. And that's the way we just

854
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: built it all up.

855
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: And we're along the line. You recorded the second album.

856
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: I think it was gosh, we were given five days

857
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 2: to do the second album, so I think it must

858
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 2: have been about May. I think May of nineteen seventy

859
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: something like that.

860
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:49,479
Speaker 1: And where did those songs come from from?

861
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: Mainly from jamming. We had a lot of it from

862
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: the long sessions that we had to play at the

863
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: start and Zurich, so things like war Pigs. We already

864
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: had written for the second album and just jamming, just

865
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 2: rehearsing and coming up with new songs. We had everything

866
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 2: written except for Paranoid.

867
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: And how do you read panoid?

868
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: By accident? It was we went in to record the

869
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 2: second album and the producer said, you've got to come

870
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: up with another three minutes. Because in those days, an

871
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: album wasn't class as an album unless it was I

872
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: think it was over forty minutes or something. You had

873
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: to have forty minutes worth of material for it to

874
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: be classed as an LP. And this is just short

875
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: of like three minutes, you've got to come up with

876
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: something quick. So we're mean, I think me and Ozzie

877
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 2: and Bill went out to get a sandwich. We came

878
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: back in and Tony. Tony had come up with the

879
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 2: riff to Paranoid. Oh that's that's good. And as he

880
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 2: came up with the vocal lines straight away, I scribbled

881
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 2: down the lyrics and we wrote and recorded it in

882
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: about two or three hours.

883
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up writing the lyrics for

884
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: the sots?

885
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: As he hated writing lyrics so and I mean, if

886
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: you ever hear some of the rough demos of stuff,

887
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 2: his lyrics left Quorral a lot to be desired, and

888
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 2: he didn't in those days. He didn't have the patience

889
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 2: to finish off. He come up with his one line

890
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: that'd be a good, really good idea, but he'd never

891
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: finish it up. So he's left to me to finish

892
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: everything or come up with something from scratch.

893
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: Well, like you're talking about Paranoid, the whole thing was done.

894
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: Did you literally just say, okay, I'm going to scribble

895
00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: down lyrics And it was the.

896
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: Easy Yeah, wrote them down, showed them to as he

897
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: he literally was reading them as he was singing, singing

898
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: the song in the studio anyway, but does mean anyway?

899
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: I explained what paranoid meant and he was all okay

900
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 2: with it.

901
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: But since you wrote a lot of the lyrics, what

902
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: was your process? And you scribbled them down? But other

903
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: times you'd go home and think about it. How did

904
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: you do it?

905
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: Well? I had to wait for Arsie to come up

906
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: with the vocal melody. He'd always come up with a

907
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: vocal melody and then maybe either on the spot or

908
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: when I'm at home. We didn't have anything to record

909
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: things on back then, so he used to have to

910
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: stick in my mind his vocal melody, and then I'd

911
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: write the lyrics to what I thought was the vocal melody,

912
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: and then he say, no, that's too many words there,

913
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 2: so I'd have to change that. Too many syllables on that,

914
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: so I'd have to change the syllables. And that's the

915
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: way we worked. But you go home with the melody

916
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 2: in your mind. How long does it take to write

917
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: the lyrics? Well, in those days, straight away, because I

918
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: was young and the world was my eyester. I just

919
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 2: had lots of ideas and there was lots of things

920
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: going on in the world that were new to me.

921
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: And the one thing I wouldn't do is write the

922
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: usual love song I just broke up with my girlfriend

923
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 2: kind of thing. It had to be something, uh, political

924
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 2: or mental depression, anything like that, anti religion.

925
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: Did you have any idea when you recorded there we

926
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: wrote up that Iron Man and Paranoid I would become

927
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: such classics.

928
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 2: No, you never do, because it was like the second album.

929
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: You don't know whether it's going to be a total

930
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: flop or do better than the first album. And it

931
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: just really took off. I mean, Paramoid was like the

932
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: first proper single that we'd written as a single and

933
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 2: it just took off in England.

934
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: Mental So since you played off the gigs had been

935
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: booked before the first album came out. Second album comes out,

936
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: how does your life change?

937
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, by that time we were getting other managed, other

938
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: managers coming in saying, look, if you keep it, if

939
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: you keep this guy that you've got managing, you're not

940
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: going to go anywhere. The guy just doesn't know how

941
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 2: to manage it. Professor, a successful band, you're always going

942
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 2: to be like on the roaming around England trying to

943
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: get giegs, and we said that to our manager, you know,

944
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: he's still capable of managing us, and yeah, I've just

945
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 2: booked you an American tour, so oh that's good. Great,

946
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 2: I've got you a deal in America for your albums,

947
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 2: and which turned out to be like one of the

948
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:37,919
Speaker 2: worst deals of all time. I think two weeks before

949
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: we're supposed to go to America, he said, there's a

950
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: big anti satanic thing going on in America, so I've

951
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 2: canceled your tour. We found out that it never He

952
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: didn't realize you had to have visas to get to

953
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: work in America. So the guy was like hopeless, and

954
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: so all these other managers piled in then trying to

955
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: get us to sign with them, which eventually we did.

956
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things, especially the first album, but

957
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: all of the early albums get literally terrible reviews.

958
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: Did you know that?

959
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: Did you care about that or just say they're not right? Well,

960
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: the first album, I mean.

961
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: We read that. You know, you always have to read

962
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: your review just to make sure that people knew that

963
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: your album was out. And I always remember this one

964
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 2: review saying this is like people that can't play their

965
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: instruments can't write lyrics. Trying to be a third rate

966
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 2: cream and the guy couldn't even lick Eric Clapton's boots

967
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,919
Speaker 2: their guitar. It was like the worst review you could,

968
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: really bad personal stuff, and and most of the reviews

969
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 2: were like that. The Rolling Stone review is the same,

970
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,439
Speaker 2: say how awfully arts and everything. But we didn't care

971
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 2: because we've been through the stuff that we've been through

972
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 2: to get to do those albums. We didn't care what

973
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: anybody thought about us because as long as we we

974
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 2: survived what we survived, and you know, you could we

975
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 2: were Uh, you couldn't bring us down.

976
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: So how do you end up making a deal with Donald?

977
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was one of the he's He sent up

978
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 2: one of his heavies to Birmingham. It came up in

979
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 2: a rolls Rice and Don had this big reputation at

980
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 2: the time. He was I think he was managing the

981
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 2: small faces, Roger Stewart and all those kind of people.

982
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: And he says, Don Arden wants to meet you. Who's

983
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 2: Don Arden? You know he told us who was managing

984
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: and everything is really this guy that you've got now

985
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: can't manager. So took us down to London, picked us

986
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 2: up in his rolls Rice in London. He's heavy and

987
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 2: sat down with Don He said, told us exactly what

988
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 2: we should be doing, how much we should be getting,

989
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 2: how all kinds of things like everything that you'd want

990
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 2: to hear, and how it's going to make us massive

991
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 2: worldwide touring band sold millions of albums so that sounds great,

992
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 2: and he went, okay, sign this then what sign this

993
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 2: paper to say that you're I'm your manager, And well,

994
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 2: we've got to think about it first. You are to

995
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 2: sign now with the duels off the table and said,

996
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: well you can't sign now how much commission you're going

997
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: to get and we'll talk about that later after you've

998
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 2: signed the thing. So we just went, well, we're going

999
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 2: to see somebody else, so we left. We went to Chrystalis,

1000
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 2: who managed ten years after in Jeth Roads All and

1001
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 2: they were really interested. The fixed up a gig for

1002
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: us at the Marquee Club in London, which is like

1003
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,959
Speaker 2: the big club that he in London to play at,

1004
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 2: and people from Chrystalis came to see us and as

1005
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 2: we started playing incomes Don Arden with all his heavies

1006
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: and everything, and we go oh no and missus, no,

1007
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 2: we can't, we can't sign with him and he says,

1008
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 2: we're going to sign me Chrystalis, and god knows what

1009
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 2: Don Harden said to Chrystalis, but they went, sorry, we

1010
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: can't sign we can't sign you.

1011
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: So it's.

1012
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 2: Been got at. So a couple of weeks later, his

1013
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: body is heavy. It comes to see us. This is

1014
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 2: I've left Don Arden and with this other guy called

1015
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: Patrick Muon there and he's great. He's a young guy,

1016
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 2: he can do like everything. He's not going to rip

1017
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: you off for anything. We didn't know that the the

1018
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: heavy guy was like one of the biggest criminals in

1019
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 2: England and eventually he was the only Englishman to ever

1020
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: join the mafia. And so we went to see Patrick Moune.

1021
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 2: He promised us to the earth, got us out that

1022
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 2: Jim Simpson contract and took us to America and everything

1023
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 2: went great after that.

1024
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so told me about the first tour of an Aerica.

1025
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 2: Well, we started off because we've been doing quite well

1026
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 2: because Paranoid just such a big hit in England. We've

1027
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 2: been playing like the big theaters and stuff like that,

1028
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 2: and some outdoor festivals, so everything was coming up in

1029
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 2: the world. We got to America, we had to play

1030
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 2: this tiny little club on Staten Island. I mean, what

1031
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 2: the houses. We were always like to think America, America,

1032
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden. And here we were in this tiny, little,

1033
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:40,600
Speaker 2: horrible little club on Staten Island called Anganos. But the

1034
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 2: night before that, we'd played this university end of term

1035
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 2: gig in New Jersey. We plugged all our gear in,

1036
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 2: and of course all our gear blew up because we

1037
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: didn't know the American electricity. It was different from me

1038
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 2: English electricity. Everything was blowing up, blown to bits. So

1039
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 2: our very first appearance in America lasted about five seconds.

1040
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,839
Speaker 2: So we end up at this tiny little club Staten Island,

1041
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 2: and you know, we're signed to that manager, the new manager.

1042
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 2: What the hell's this come?

1043
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 1: All the way here?

1044
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 2: You're blown up. America's supposed to be all this great,

1045
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 2: big place and everything. We're going to be really successful.

1046
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 2: We're playing this little club and this is yes. But

1047
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 2: everybody in the club are all the top agents and

1048
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 2: promoters in America. I mean, we did the gig and

1049
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 2: suddenly all the whole of America opened up for us.

1050
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: Then you remember who the agent was that you signed with?

1051
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I can't remember it now. I can't remember

1052
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:56,560
Speaker 2: off the top of my head.

1053
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: Okay, it was one of the big ones. So now

1054
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: you have success across America, you have success in England.

1055
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: Things are finally kind of working or there are still

1056
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: any spots where there are holes in the game.

1057
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: Everything was incredible, more than you could ever imagine. America

1058
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 2: had taken us. You know, I loved us and that's

1059
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: the pinnacle of success. It's like, because all you've ever

1060
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 2: heard it since we started was, you know, you nobody

1061
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: unless you make it in America. Everybody used to say

1062
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 2: that to us. No matter what you're do in England,

1063
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 2: if you're not big in America, you're nothing. And we

1064
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 2: were big in America, and it's like it's sort of

1065
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 2: pinch yourself kind of thing. It didn't seem real. And

1066
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 2: then the hard work began. It was like, because we

1067
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 2: had to do we were in Europe, do America just

1068
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: took months to you just spend all the time either

1069
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 2: on the road or writing or in the studio. As

1070
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 2: soon as you're finished in the studio, you're back on

1071
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 2: the road and then you'd be over to the States

1072
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 2: and keep building euro Upe in America, keep at tour

1073
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:28,720
Speaker 2: after two after two, and it was great until we

1074
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 2: sort of wondered where our money was. And it was

1075
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 2: not until what the mid seventies when we kept asking

1076
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 2: for our accountants somebody to you know, show us what

1077
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 2: was coming in and what was going out. And I

1078
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: managed to kept saying, I'll have a word at the

1079
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,680
Speaker 2: accountant and he'll send you the accounts so you can look.

1080
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 2: The next thing, We're got a massive, big tax build

1081
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 2: from the inland revenue in England. We got the how

1082
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 2: is this we haven't earned this money tax people, Oh,

1083
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 2: yes you have. It's like we've seen about a tenth

1084
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 2: of what we were being taxed on. And we realized

1085
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 2: then that the manager has like ripped us off.

1086
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 1: Okay, then what.

1087
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 2: Then spent a year trying to get out of that contract.

1088
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers were involved in it. We've had to eventually

1089
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 2: we had to buy him out, buy the manager out

1090
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 2: for a million dollars, which is like ridiculous amount back

1091
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: in the mid seventies, and we had to borrow it

1092
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 2: from the record companies like against future albums just to

1093
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 2: pay him off. We were in court for about three

1094
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 2: months with all these lawyers involved, and I think the

1095
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 2: lawyers ripped us off more than the management did, and

1096
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,839
Speaker 2: so we were left with no manager, absolutely no money.

1097
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 2: We just had to start all over again.

1098
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: So what did you do for a manager?

1099
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: We had to manage ourselves very badly and we got

1100
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: this the tour tour manager then became looked after the

1101
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 2: like the agencies booking tours and stuff like her, and

1102
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 2: just had to go like that.

1103
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: But you eventually ended up with Donnardon anyway, right.

1104
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:52,480
Speaker 2: At the end of the seventies.

1105
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So how did that happen?

1106
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:00,719
Speaker 2: We needed somebody to take the lift all the stuff

1107
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 2: off us because it was just like the music was suffering.

1108
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 2: We would you'd like, we'd start, we'd go into a

1109
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 2: studio and then you get a summons to appear in court.

1110
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: And eventually what used to take is five days or

1111
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 2: two weeks in the studio I became like six months.

1112
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 2: We shoul have to keep appearing in court all the

1113
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 2: time against all these people that were suing us. And

1114
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 2: Don Arden said that he could get us out of it,

1115
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: and that was unfortunately when the end of the Aussie

1116
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 2: era came about.

1117
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,600
Speaker 1: Okay, did Don Arden give you a percentage? Did he

1118
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: tell you what it was going to be? Did he

1119
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 1: rip you off?

1120
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 2: He didn't actually book any sus because Ozzi was fired

1121
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 2: from the band and Don wasn't interested in managing Black

1122
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:56,759
Speaker 2: Sabbath without Ozzi.

1123
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so Don Arden all the will he never even

1124
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: managed to Black.

1125
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 2: Not Know England. No, I think he started on that.

1126
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 2: I think it was the Never Say Die tour. We

1127
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 2: just were like, we need a manager, and we went

1128
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 2: like halfway through the Never Say Diet got done involved.

1129
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 2: He agreed to manage us. He had incredible success with

1130
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 2: the l built them like one of the major bands

1131
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 2: on the Earth at the time, and then we found

1132
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 2: out that Jeff Lynn sued him for thirty five million

1133
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:48,879
Speaker 2: dollars but neither so he agreed to manage us. We've

1134
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 2: done a tour with Van Halen and Warner Brothers were

1135
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 2: putting all the publicity into Van Halen and completely ignoring us.

1136
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,799
Speaker 2: So we thought, you know, we've got to get a manager.

1137
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 2: We went back to Darn and that was going okay,

1138
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 2: and so as he got fired in the band, Don

1139
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,680
Speaker 2: Arden says, well, I'm not managing with that, and that

1140
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 2: was the end of Don Arden.

1141
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 1: And okay, a couple of things as he left the

1142
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 1: band came back and then got fired. How hard was

1143
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 1: it to decide to fire them?

1144
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 2: It was heartbreaking because you know, we're all growing up together,

1145
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:37,719
Speaker 2: we forward against the odds together, we built we perform

1146
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 2: miracles from getting making the band successful, and it was heartbreaking.

1147
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 2: It's like you know, cutting your arm off.

1148
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 1: Well, how bad was it? Did you have to fire them?

1149
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely needed a change of lifestyle. At the

1150
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: time he was we were all into we were all

1151
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 2: doing drugs and getting boozing and stuff like that, but

1152
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 2: we could still function. Whereas Ossie it's sort of it

1153
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 2: wasn't functioning anymore. And we got this house in bel

1154
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 2: Air to write an album. Ozzie just wasn't interested in

1155
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 2: the music that we were doing. And eventually Tony says,

1156
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: Ozzi's got to go. It's just not interesting in the

1157
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 2: band's not going to go anywhere. Keep on like this

1158
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 2: and this isn't Actually I was a party the other

1159
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 2: night and I got talking to this guy called Ronnie

1160
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 2: James Doer, and he's got an absolutely brilliant voice, and

1161
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 2: I think we should give him a go. H. So

1162
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 2: Tony made came to the decision to get rid of

1163
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 2: Ossie and we we hated doing it, but it had

1164
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 2: to happen for our sake and his sake, and and

1165
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 2: it all worked out great in the end. And Ronnie

1166
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 2: James Doo came along and we'd written he sang to

1167
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that we'd written and it was brilliant,

1168
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 2: absolutely just exactly what he needed. And that was the

1169
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 2: end of the Aussie era.

1170
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:30,759
Speaker 1: What did as he see when he got fired?

1171
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 2: But he couldn't believe it. I mean, it's like a

1172
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 2: ton of bricks coming down on him on his own.

1173
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean, we had each other, but Ozzie didn't have anybody.

1174
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 2: And luckily that's when Sharon came along and saved him.

1175
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: And when he ultimately had success as a solo career

1176
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: pretty much right away. Did that surprise you?

1177
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 2: It surprised me how fast it too himself around? Yeah. Yeah,

1178
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 2: And we were like totally really glad that he was

1179
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 2: successful and he turned his whole life around. It was

1180
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 2: great because he was successful and we were successful. We

1181
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: were had one of the biggest selling albums ever of

1182
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 2: Sabbath era, and he probably became bigger than Sabbath.

1183
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: And how was it working with Riley James Deal.

1184
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 2: It's fantastic for the first two albums, it's great. He

1185
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 2: was the ultra professional. He'd just get down to everything.

1186
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,639
Speaker 2: The pressure was taken off me because he could write

1187
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 2: his own lyrics, so I could concentrate on the music

1188
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,560
Speaker 2: part and you know, the bass parts and everything. He

1189
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 2: was great for the first two albums, and then by

1190
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 2: the time he came for the live album, he got

1191
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 2: his own solodeal unbeknownst to us, which didn't get down

1192
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 2: very well with us.

1193
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to earlier era. At one point,

1194
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 1: Bill Ward says, they're kicking.

1195
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 2: You out of the bear. When I'm there, I have

1196
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 2: no idea. You have to ask Tony and Bill. And

1197
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 2: because Bill came to the house one day and she's

1198
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 2: got some bad news, You're out of the band. Great.

1199
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:35,640
Speaker 2: I think I was just like losing interest basically, and

1200
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 2: we've just we've been through so much. We got rid

1201
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 2: of the management. We had no money to show for

1202
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:49,719
Speaker 2: selling zillions of albums and millions of tours, successful tours

1203
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 2: and everything, and we had, like I think I had

1204
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 2: about five thousand dollars in the bank or something, and

1205
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 2: massive tax bills, and I was just disillusion with the

1206
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 2: whole thing. And I think I just that rubbed off

1207
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 2: and everybody else in the band they just thought I

1208
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 2: wasn't interested anymore, which is probably true. At the time,

1209
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:15,719
Speaker 2: I just needed a break from everything.

1210
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 1: So you were okay with it getting kicked out?

1211
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, oh, thank God for that. I

1212
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 2: don't have to make the decision myself. They made it

1213
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 2: for me, and yeah, I was just like, I think

1214
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 2: I had the most relaxing three weeks I've had in

1215
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies.

1216
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: So how did you end up back in the bit?

1217
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 2: The phone me says where are you? Do you mean?

1218
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 2: Where am I rehearsal? Where are do you kick me? At?

1219
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 2: The band who kicked you out? Nobody would admit that

1220
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 2: they were the ones that kicked me out, So I

1221
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 2: just turned up rehearsal as if nothing had ever happened.

1222
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: And to what degree did that affect you going forward?

1223
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 2: Well, I realized that the band was it wasn't like

1224
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 2: four school kids all having a laugh together. It was

1225
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 2: like serious, and it sort of lost the friendship part.

1226
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:23,720
Speaker 2: It became more of a business than four blokes just

1227
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:28,800
Speaker 2: having a laugh together, and just I don't know, I

1228
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 2: think the friendship suffered a little bit because you. You

1229
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 2: never think that you people that close to it are

1230
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: gonna stab you in the back, which is what I

1231
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: felt like when they said I was fired. But so

1232
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 2: a little bit of that, a little bit of the

1233
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,640
Speaker 2: brotherhood sort of it was diminished.

1234
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 1: So you had this run with the deal, which was

1235
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: very successful. Then he gets a solo deal that ends

1236
01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: with Sabbath. You end up working with a bunch of

1237
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: different people, including Ian Gillen. We've been in deep purple.

1238
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 1: You know what was it like, constantly cycling through different people.

1239
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 2: It was horrible by this time after Ronnie left, because

1240
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 2: we'd got Sandy Perlman managers for Heaven and Hell and

1241
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 2: Mob Rules. He came in and managed us after Don

1242
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 2: refused to manage us because obviously wasn't in the band,

1243
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 2: and Sandy got all our business affairs sorted out. It

1244
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 2: was not the best thing ever happened to us. We

1245
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:40,759
Speaker 2: got all our royalties properly sorted everything, all that tax

1246
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:45,720
Speaker 2: sorted everything, just put us on a different level so

1247
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:51,680
Speaker 2: we didn't have to worry about finances anymore. And then

1248
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 2: uh that there is like a big thing with because

1249
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:05,760
Speaker 2: Sandy Ploman managed Blue Icycles as well, and that came

1250
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: to an end because he says, it's like you are

1251
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 2: the manager. So he managed Blue Icacle because it is

1252
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 2: too it's too much of a conflict. And he says,

1253
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: what I've made my sort of name managing Blue Icycle,

1254
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 2: so I've gotten to staying with them. So incomes Don

1255
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 2: Arden again. He says, I've got the proposition for you. Says,

1256
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 2: how about having Ian Gillan in the band. He says,

1257
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 2: he's left Deep Purple and he's looking for a band

1258
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 2: and he's he's approached his manager's approached me and asked

1259
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 2: about join in Sabbath. So he says, well, yeah, we'll

1260
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 2: give it a try. And this is what we did

1261
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 2: well that ended up having a short run. Why the

1262
01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 2: whole thing was a fiasco. I mean the Stonehenge but

1263
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 2: it was ridiculous. Everybody thought spinal tap and copied. So

1264
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 2: because of the whole Stonehenge fiasco.

1265
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: For those people who are tell us about the Stonehenge fiasco.

1266
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 2: Well, because Don Arden had this, we put on spectacular

1267
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 2: shows like with E l O had E l O

1268
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,599
Speaker 2: had a flying saucer landing on stage at their gigs.

1269
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 2: It's like heap are on the most spectacular shows you

1270
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 2: could imagine and and he was doing with Ossie as well.

1271
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 2: But Ozzie was going out with these incredible shows, and

1272
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:47,600
Speaker 2: Don Harden came up with this idea of having Stonehenges

1273
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 2: the backdrop and the sun gradually as we were playing,

1274
01:26:52,880 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 2: the sun would gradually rise behind the Stonehenge like normal

1275
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:05,560
Speaker 2: Stone Enge. And of course they got all the dimensions

1276
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:09,560
Speaker 2: ron So when we finally went on tour with it,

1277
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 2: it was too big to put it in any of

1278
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 2: the gigs, so we had to leave it on the

1279
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 2: docks in New York. So that was a total fiasco.

1280
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:28,880
Speaker 2: Then Ian Gillan, halfway through the tour heard from Deep

1281
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:31,599
Speaker 2: Purple they were getting wanted him back in the Deep

1282
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 2: Purple band, so he wanted to go back to Deep Purple.

1283
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 2: And that was the end of that.

1284
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 1: So when did the original Sabbath, you know, when did

1285
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:45,720
Speaker 1: you all basically say this is all?

1286
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 2: Well I did. Then it was like I never I

1287
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,719
Speaker 2: just didn't agree with the girl and singing in Sabbath.

1288
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 2: I agreed with it, thinking that it was going to

1289
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 2: be a Gil and Iomi, but that kind of thing,

1290
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 2: not Black Sabbath. But the record company insisted that it

1291
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 2: comes out as a black Sabbath album, and I never

1292
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 2: really never believed in it really, and so nineteen eighty

1293
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 2: four came around were me and Tony and Bill are

1294
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 2: auditioning different singers and it's just like I just had

1295
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 2: enough of this. I'm out of here, and I left.

1296
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: Okay, and tell me about the solo album.

1297
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:45,839
Speaker 2: For me, Well, I've been writing lots of different stuff

1298
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 2: and I decided I'm just going to do go on

1299
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: my own so on my own boss, and I'll do

1300
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:00,080
Speaker 2: what I want musically, which is what I do it

1301
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 2: just for the pleasure of writing my own stuff.

1302
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 1: To what degree was that fulfilling and successful? Because it

1303
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: wasn't as commercially successful as certainly the peak of Black Service. Oh,

1304
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: the solo stuff didn't do anything. I think it hardly

1305
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 1: sold anything.

1306
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 2: It was just nice to be able to play, to

1307
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 2: do exactly what I wanted to do instead of having

1308
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 2: to listen to everybody everybody else's opinions or wherever. So

1309
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 2: it was very fulfilling for me. So I didn't need

1310
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 2: the money at the time. It was more like a

1311
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 2: hobby and something that I'd always always wanted to do,

1312
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 2: and it's up to me to be able to do it.

1313
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 2: And that's what happened.

1314
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 1: You end up working with Osi and Asthmosis. How does

1315
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 1: that happen?

1316
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 2: Well, me and I and our kids were very very close.

1317
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 2: He'd come up to my house, him and Sharon with

1318
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:06,320
Speaker 2: the kids to play with my kids, and we got

1319
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 2: into his action. We got on holidays together as families,

1320
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 2: and so we were really close. And he was having

1321
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 2: problems with Bob Daisley's bass player at the time, and

1322
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:25,759
Speaker 2: he tried other bass players and he just wasn't getting

1323
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 2: along with them, and he just asked me one day

1324
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 2: if I'd do a tour with him. Yeah, fine, you know,

1325
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 2: just as friends. And that's what I did, just out

1326
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 2: of friendship.

1327
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: And how did Black Sabbath end up informing?

1328
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 2: I think Sharon had the idea of having Sabbath and

1329
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 2: Ozzie doing a gig together, and that's how the Ozfest

1330
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 2: thing came about, and we did that. It all came

1331
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 2: from his He did a farewell gig in custom Maser

1332
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 2: in California, and the original Sabbath got finished off his

1333
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 2: show and it's supposed to be his like final farewell

1334
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff, and we just got

1335
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 2: together from then on.

1336
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:27,600
Speaker 1: How did you end up playing that gig. Find me.

1337
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 2: Well, we were on tour with Ozzie with Ronnie James

1338
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 2: Doo at the time, and Ozzie and Sharon had got

1339
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,560
Speaker 2: in touch with us and says, we'd love you to

1340
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:44,880
Speaker 2: as he's finishing his career at custom Maser and he'd

1341
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 2: love you to come and do the final Uncle with

1342
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 2: me Tony and Bill and the original Sabbath just going

1343
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 2: on stage and finishing his career off. And went, oh yeah, great,

1344
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 2: we're up for it. We mentioned it to run and

1345
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 2: he went ballistic, I'm not doing that. I'm not supporting

1346
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 2: that clown and all this kind of stuff, and so

1347
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 2: we start, okay, well we're doing it, so running, Okay,

1348
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:20,439
Speaker 2: Well that's it finished. That's the way that that finished.

1349
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 2: Something really stupid, pathetic.

1350
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:29,600
Speaker 1: Okay, needless to say, it's not ours's last gig, and

1351
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 1: then you continue to work with ours. He is Black Sabbath.

1352
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of plan or is it just

1353
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:40,640
Speaker 1: organic or is it just when ours? He calls what

1354
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: what's going on there?

1355
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 2: It's just we had such a good time at the

1356
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 2: the quote unquote farewell gig that he says, you know,

1357
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 2: if we ever want to do this again and one

1358
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 2: off thing or festival or just a tour whatever that

1359
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 2: to do it. Nothing stopping us, and that's the way

1360
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 2: we've always treated it ever since.

1361
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:08,560
Speaker 1: Well, eventually you're king to an end? Is would you

1362
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:09,639
Speaker 1: ever do it again?

1363
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 2: If I was capable, if the rest of the band

1364
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 2: were capable. But there's absolutely no way we'd gone tour

1365
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:23,439
Speaker 2: again because we're not not capable of it anymore physically.

1366
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 1: And how come Bill Ward? Wasn't I the end run

1367
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 1: of service?

1368
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 2: That's something you should ask, not me, because I would.

1369
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:44,719
Speaker 2: We started doing the the last album together, thirteen album,

1370
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 2: and it was the original band, and that's that's what

1371
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:55,280
Speaker 2: we all agreed to h It was supposed to be

1372
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 2: like the final album of the original band. And everything

1373
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:04,920
Speaker 2: was going great in rehearsals right in the album. Then

1374
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 2: we had a break. I went to Hawaii, came back

1375
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:13,560
Speaker 2: from Hawaii and Bill found me, I've been fired. What

1376
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:19,000
Speaker 2: do you mean, what's why you fired? I have no idea.

1377
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 2: I just come back from Hawaii. I don't know what's

1378
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 2: gone on, and so I've still I never did get

1379
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 2: a proper answer why Bill was out the band and

1380
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 2: what was.

1381
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 1: It like working with Sharing?

1382
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 2: It was great, it's always been great for working with her.

1383
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 2: She had to overcome being one of the few women

1384
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 2: managements in this horrendous music industry. She was very, very tough,

1385
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:51,760
Speaker 2: but she had to be to be a successful woman

1386
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:56,759
Speaker 2: even now in this industry on the management side.

1387
01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:59,639
Speaker 1: When do you get married the first time?

1388
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 2: When? Did what?

1389
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 1: When did you get married the first time?

1390
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:04,960
Speaker 2: Married?

1391
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 1: Yes?

1392
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:13,479
Speaker 2: No, yeah, you god? First marriage is nineteen I think

1393
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one and you were in the band.

1394
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Why did you decide to get married?

1395
01:35:23,320 --> 01:35:28,759
Speaker 2: Because I've been going with my girlfriend from school days

1396
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 2: on and off for since I was like fifteen, and

1397
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:39,080
Speaker 2: it's one of those silly things that you do.

1398
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:41,479
Speaker 1: And why did that mirror a gend?

1399
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 2: Probably mainly due to being away on the road all

1400
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 2: the time, and she was seeing other people and I

1401
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 2: was seeing other people. Just didn't come to a natural end.

1402
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 2: And then when I met Gloria with me forever wife,

1403
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 2: it was just like the lover felt for her was

1404
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 2: like just beyond everything I'd ever felt.

1405
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 1: So how did you meet Gloria?

1406
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 2: At the airport in Saint Louis of all places? She

1407
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:24,679
Speaker 2: was waiting for her friend to come off the plane

1408
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 2: from Canada. I just landed in Saint Louis. Come out.

1409
01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 2: I saw her there and it's like love at first sight.

1410
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 2: And there was the limo driver was waiting for me,

1411
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 2: and I sit to the limo driver, wait till she,

1412
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 2: wait till she leaves, and follow her. It sounds really corny.

1413
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 2: And she went outside. In those days, she could part

1414
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:56,560
Speaker 2: right outside the airport and her port. She had a

1415
01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 2: red Porsche which is part right next to the limo.

1416
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 2: So she got in the red Porsche. I said to

1417
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:07,639
Speaker 2: the limo driver, if she stops for a red light,

1418
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:11,719
Speaker 2: I want to speak to her, and luckily enough stopped

1419
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:14,799
Speaker 2: at a red light when the window down and invited

1420
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 2: her to the gig and she was like what. I

1421
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 2: don't think she'd ever heard of Black Zibberth at the time,

1422
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:25,439
Speaker 2: and I said, come to the gig tonight and she

1423
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,040
Speaker 2: did love ever since.

1424
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so you were into her first sight? Was she

1425
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:31,600
Speaker 1: into you?

1426
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 2: I think she was sort of the hell, who's this

1427
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:45,040
Speaker 2: kind of thing? She didn't know anything, who was or anything.

1428
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:50,519
Speaker 2: I think it was just she was just intrigued by

1429
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 2: by this English bloke with long hair and in her band.

1430
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 1: You end up living in Saint Louis, what's that.

1431
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 2: Well, her family lived in Saint Louis, so we got

1432
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 2: a house there. We had I still had a house

1433
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:13,920
Speaker 2: in England, so it was great for being on the

1434
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:18,599
Speaker 2: road because you know, it's just Central America in America USA,

1435
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 2: and her family was there, and eventually we had our

1436
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 2: first baby, who was born in Saint Louis hospital, and

1437
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:33,200
Speaker 2: it's just convenience to live in Saint Louis.

1438
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 1: So, okay, do you ever play the bass anymore?

1439
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:43,639
Speaker 2: I played the bass three weeks ago with the Foo

1440
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 2: Fighters at aston Villa Football Stadium.

1441
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Is it the type of thing if someone calls you

1442
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 1: up to play, do you have to rehearse or you

1443
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:57,000
Speaker 1: just you can say, okay, I'll pick up my basin

1444
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 1: on there.

1445
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:01,640
Speaker 2: Well, they said I just wanted to do Paranoid, so

1446
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, I know that sort of backwards, so I

1447
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 2: didn't have to rehearse that.

1448
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: And the other three original members of the Sabbath do

1449
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:17,680
Speaker 1: you have contact with them? With Osie practically every day

1450
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:26,720
Speaker 1: now Tony occasionally we email and Bill Ward isn't on

1451
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 1: the internet and I hate the phone, so I have

1452
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:34,280
Speaker 1: to if I want to speak to Bill Ward, I

1453
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 1: have to send an email to his wife, who passes

1454
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 1: it on to him.

1455
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:42,559
Speaker 2: Then he gives her the reply and she she sends

1456
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 2: it to me.

1457
01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 1: And what do you talk about with Tony and ours

1458
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:48,800
Speaker 1: in these days?

1459
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 2: Just use your friendship things obviously, because we've just been

1460
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:01,960
Speaker 2: did this custom for are a local football club in

1461
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:07,200
Speaker 2: England has just come out with that and Adidas a

1462
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 2: new football kit. So me and Assi did an Addi

1463
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:17,519
Speaker 2: Das commercial back in England for the Aston Villa's new kid.

1464
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:24,599
Speaker 2: Tony talked to him about what hotels he likes, stuff

1465
01:40:24,720 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 2: like that, And.

1466
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 1: Do you listen to new music?

1467
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 2: Not really, I'd rather listen to an audio book because

1468
01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 2: when I'm driving from here in Nevada to Utah, which

1469
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 2: is a seven hour drive, which I love doing, I

1470
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 2: always listen to audio books. Occasionally listen to new music,

1471
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:52,360
Speaker 2: but I don't know. Some of it's totally above way

1472
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 2: over my head. But the grandkids love like things like

1473
01:40:56,439 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. I took the grandkids to Tyler Swift concert,

1474
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:06,920
Speaker 2: which was incredible. So yeah, things like do you listen

1475
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 2: to the old music? What Sabbath stuff, Sabath stuff or

1476
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:14,960
Speaker 2: even the other stuff. I listened to loads of sixties stuff,

1477
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:20,599
Speaker 2: things that I used to hate back then the same

1478
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:27,479
Speaker 2: great now it's like nostalgic. Give me an example, like

1479
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 2: Tamla motown stuff and things that are pretended that I

1480
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:35,559
Speaker 2: didn't like because it was a bit too girly. Noah,

1481
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:43,320
Speaker 2: love like Motown, stacked otis reading, all that kind of stuff.

1482
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 2: I love that, all soul stuff.

1483
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 1: How olden do you recognize these days? Not a lot.

1484
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 2: I've never been sort of the one to be recognized.

1485
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 1: Hum.

1486
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 2: But then it's always like when I'm in an awkward

1487
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 2: position that somebody will recognized me. When I've had the

1488
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 2: shower for a week or something and just go out

1489
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 2: to put the bins out to something, somebody be passed it.

1490
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:18,720
Speaker 1: And do you care about legacy? Do you care if

1491
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:22,400
Speaker 1: people in younger generations know about Black Sabbath and the

1492
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: music you made, or you say, well I did that.

1493
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm doing something different now.

1494
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:34,760
Speaker 2: Oh, it's fantastic to you know, still be recognized by musically.

1495
01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:39,559
Speaker 2: Still people look up to the stuff that Sabbath did.

1496
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:44,000
Speaker 2: It's it's always seemed to be cool to like Sabbath,

1497
01:42:44,080 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 2: no matter how old you are. That's a good thing.

1498
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 2: And how was it playing paranoid with It's fantastic I

1499
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 2: mean there's like fifty thousand people there at the football

1500
01:42:57,080 --> 01:43:00,800
Speaker 2: ground and that I came on and the place is

1501
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:06,000
Speaker 2: spent wild, especially being back in Aston where Sabbath was born.

1502
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 2: And you missed the stage at all, and I don't

1503
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:14,760
Speaker 2: until I'm on it. Then I thought, I just go

1504
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:18,400
Speaker 2: on it and like something takes completely takes over me.

1505
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:21,360
Speaker 2: I'm like throwing me base up in there and all

1506
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 2: this kind of thing. Then I come off like, oh, Gord,

1507
01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:25,000
Speaker 2: me back.

1508
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:31,800
Speaker 1: So any specific plans anything you want to do in

1509
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:33,120
Speaker 1: the next coming years.

1510
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:38,800
Speaker 2: I would love to write a novel. That's sort of

1511
01:43:38,960 --> 01:43:44,719
Speaker 2: my ultimate ambition, but I've started it. Every time I started,

1512
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 2: I get to about page eighty and completely run out

1513
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:53,519
Speaker 2: of ideas. So I'm just gradually building all these ideas

1514
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:57,800
Speaker 2: up one by one and hopefully within a year or

1515
01:43:57,880 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 2: two I'm going to get down to it finally do it.

1516
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Geezer, thanks a lot for talking to me and

1517
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 1: my audience telling your story. Thank you, Bob, and maybe

1518
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:14,840
Speaker 1: see on stage somewhere down the road. Yeah, throwing your

1519
01:44:14,920 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 1: base in the air. That teos until next time. This

1520
01:44:21,200 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 1: is Bob Love six