1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: And we will continue with part two of our conversation 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: with Gina Harris right after these brief messages from our 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: generous sponsors. Now we continue with Gina on the news 5 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: she received only four months after the loss of her 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: son David. 7 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: So we have prig that right away, and. 8 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Are you excited or scared a little of both? 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 2: But you know, I've read story after story and typically 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: people don't have multiple losses like this. So we and 11 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: they couldn't find anything genetic or chromosomally, so it was 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: just kind of, for lack of better words, of fluke 13 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: that it happened. And so things were going fairly well, 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: but then they said the earliest you can come in 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: is sixteen weeks into the pregnancy. So we went in 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: and the paranetologist is looking at everything and he got 17 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: really quiet, and my husband and I just looked at 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: each other and we knew. So he said, go ahead 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: and go into my office, and I mean, he just 20 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: he said nothing, and he said, your baby has I 21 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,279 Speaker 2: don't know if he knew everything exactly at that time, 22 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: but we ended up finding out that our baby had 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: cystic hiicromas and high drops. And cystic hiicromas are cysts 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: around the neck and then high drops a severe swelling 25 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 2: and fluid build up all around the baby's organs. They 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: weren't able to tell the gender of the baby at 27 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: that point, and they knew like that we wanted to 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: carry our baby as long as possible. They were surprised 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: that he was even alive still with his condition, and 30 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: then twenty four weeks into the pregnancy, they just had 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: me come in every week because I wasn't going to 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: be able to fill him move and they said his 33 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: heart stopped. So they said, well, you know, you can 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: go home for a few days or you can induce. 35 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: So I'm like, what am I going to do at home? 36 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: So we went to the hospital and they induced labor 37 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: at that same time. So this is now June, after 38 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: the October we lost David. While we were at the hospital, 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: we got a call from the company that was doing 40 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: the headstone for our son David, and we just were like, 41 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: let's hold off. There was a plot at the cemetery 42 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: right next to David, there's a baby section, and we 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 2: buried them in the cemetery where my dad and my 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: sister are buried, and all of my mom's side of 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: the family, like the six generations back. 46 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: I'm doing the math on this year. If you got 47 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: pregnant four months after and then this happened at twenty 48 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: four weeks, we're not even a year removed from the 49 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: loss of your first job. 50 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: No, yeah, So, but I knew that plot was open 51 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: next to David, and I didn't want to give up hope. 52 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: But I also knew that if that plot got taken, 53 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: I'd be really devastated that our second baby. Wouldn't it 54 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: be by his big brother. And so I'm in the 55 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: hospital and so I called the cemetery. Weeks before the 56 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: baby's heart stopped and I called the cemetery. I'm like, 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: can you just hold it for me? And I remember 58 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: we went out there on Father's Day, right before our 59 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: second baby was born, and I'm like, I hope we're 60 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: not back here for two But the heart stopped and 61 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: we delivered our baby and we named him Ethan. His 62 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: condition was really, really sick beer. I had a camera 63 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: in my bag, and I thought about just taking pictures 64 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: of his hands and feet, or maybe of him wrapped 65 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: in a blanket of us just holding them. But I 66 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: didn't do that, and we didn't want to bring a 67 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: photographer out because his condition just was really tough. Yeah yeah, 68 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: And so because regret in my life, I didn't get 69 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 2: photographs of Ethan and in the years following, and this 70 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: is just to say what these photographs do. Oftentimes we 71 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: felt like people would forget Ethan because I didn't have 72 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: the photographs. That David would get mentioned, but not Ethan. 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: And that's the power of the photographs. I know what 74 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: it's like to have the photographs and to start that 75 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: journey with them, and I know what it's like to 76 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: not have them. And the photographs mean everything. But Ethan 77 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: was the inspiration behind our medical Affiliate program and now 78 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: they made down to sleep because if there are forty 79 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: thousand babies we could be photographing every year and we're 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 2: only doing ten percent of them. We wanted to find 81 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: ways we could do that, and there are situations it's 82 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: not can do so for a photographer to come out, 83 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: or maybe a family might feel uncomfortable. And so we 84 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: have a program that trains nurses. They get continuing education units, 85 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: we teach them how to photograph the babies. Most nurses 86 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 2: are already doing that. They would send us photographs, we'd 87 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: retouch them, but it wasn't a formal program, so we 88 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: formalized it. They get the continuing education units the with 89 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: parent permission, the nurses upload the images onto our online 90 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: our secure online gallery, and our digital retouch artists retouch 91 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: those images so babies like Ethan can be photographed and 92 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 2: families can receive something. So we also have that program 93 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: available for the nurses. Ideally, the photographer is going to 94 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: come in and obviously do the great job as a photographer, 95 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: but when they're not available, then we have that for 96 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: the nurses. And the thing that now I lay me 97 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: down to sleep does is the digital retouching. We deliver 98 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 2: the images in black and white, and we never changed 99 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: the appearance of a baby. But there's different things that 100 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: happen with a baby when they pass away, like bruising 101 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: and skin tears, so we do retouch those. But you 102 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: know one baby I'm thinking of that had six toes, well, 103 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: we don't edit out one of the toes. That's something 104 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 2: that made that particular baby nique. 105 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: I've seen a picture and to me, it looked like 106 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: a sleeping baby in a blanket. It was actually a beautiful, warm, 107 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: loving picture. And gosh, this sounds fall to say, but 108 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I was looking at a dead child. 109 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: I just look like I was looking at somebody's baby. 110 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: And once I saw that picture and I read what 111 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: you've had to say, I started to get it, you 112 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: know what I mean, even as someone who had been 113 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: through it. So you and Rob have got to be 114 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: having some serious discussions about having a family at this point. 115 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: I mean, sure we were too traumatic situations. Are you 116 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: thinking no more children? 117 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: Well, you know, at that point, we were grieving the 118 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: loss of our babies, but also the fact that we 119 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: may never have children. 120 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: And grieving that as well. 121 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: Yes, And so we weren't sure what to do because 122 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: the doctors couldn't find any connection and the only thing 123 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: we were told was maybe you can't have a healthy 124 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: boy because maybe one of my ex chromosomes was passing 125 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: on to the boy. But that was just still a theory. 126 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: And so my husband and I did try two more times, 127 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: and those pregnancies ended a miscarriage, and at that point 128 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: we didn't know what we were going to do. And 129 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: it was twenty eleven and I found out about now 130 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: I lead me down to sleep. They were looking for 131 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: a CEO. I wasn't looking for a job. I just 132 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: came across it just being a nonprofit, and so I 133 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: reached out to Cheryl, one of the founders, and. 134 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: Who knew the strength of it more than you. 135 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And so Cheryl said, we just hired the position, 136 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: but send your resume anyway. And because of where I 137 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 2: had worked before, we had a lot of government grants, 138 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: so I didn't have to make a resume because those 139 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: always had to go in with the grants we applied for, 140 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: And so I just sent it on with a letter. 141 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: And then a week later they called me and they 142 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: said that the person they offered it to decline, and 143 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: so they brought me in and the interview was more like, 144 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: how can we get you to work here? So it 145 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: was it was a really big move for me because 146 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: I didn't know what we were going to be doing 147 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: about children. I had no idea, but we were just 148 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 2: kind of putting a pause on it. And by that point, 149 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: I think, I'm what thirty seven, thirty eight years old. 150 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: My clock's ticken, and we just we weren't sure. We 151 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 2: kind of loosely started looking at adoption, but we weren't sure, 152 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,599 Speaker 2: and then I literally was out. Now I lead me 153 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: down to sleep, for it would have been two months 154 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: and I found out I was pregnant. We were not 155 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: planning it, like. 156 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: It's not I mean, listen, this is one of the deepest, 157 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: most heart tagging podcasts I've ever done. And typically I 158 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: do a lot of off off the cuff jokes in 159 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: the middle of stuff, but I just I can't must 160 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: them right now. But I do have to say I 161 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: can't help but noticed the irony that after everything you've 162 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: been through and you're thirty seven years old, and you 163 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: take a job as the director of this unbelievable volunteer 164 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: nonprofit organization who has meant so much to you and 165 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: your husband and your family, and then you get pregnant again. 166 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 167 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: And I don't know how it happened either. I didn't 168 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: even see him. I was leaving my other job and 169 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: coming into a new one. But it was a really 170 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: big surprise, and so thinking, how am I going to 171 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: walk through this pregnancy because the odds are I'm going 172 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: to lose this baby because I had already lost four. 173 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: So I you know, I just took it day by day. 174 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 175 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: We got through the first trimester and things were looking good. 176 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: I can read ultrasounds now, I'm like, I see himniotic fluid, 177 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: and looking back at Ethan's ultrasound when he was younger, 178 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: I could see the cistic higromas. But they weren't looking 179 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: for that at the obi's office, So then you didn't 180 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 2: know what you're looking for back down. I didn't know then, 181 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: but I know now, So I have a backup career. See, 182 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: sometimes we can joke, so I am I yeah, So 183 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: just taking it day by day. And then we'd get 184 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: phone calls and somebody's the same, you know, a twenty 185 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: eight weeks gestation or whatever, and I'm like, oh, that's 186 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: how far along I am. And but at the sixteen weeks, 187 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: we were able to see if this baby would be healthy. 188 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking this baby's healthy. Like and I'm thinking 189 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: this baby's a girl, and me being this cheer coach, 190 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: I'm like, when can I get her into cheerleading? So 191 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: and there's more to this, Okay. 192 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: I have to ask you something in the middle of this. 193 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I just you've you've you've lost four 194 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: children and and now you're running the organization that takes 195 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: pictures of dead children for grieving families. Yes, and you're pregnant. 196 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that every time there's a call, or 197 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: every time there's every time your organization sends a photographer out, 198 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: you have to be identifying with that and then internally wondering, 199 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: am I going to do this again? Am I? I mean, 200 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: you had been freaking out, A look, I'd have been 201 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: freaking out. And if I was robbed, I'd have really 202 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: been freaking out, because I mean, you know, I'm kind 203 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: of old school, but I kind of feel like one 204 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: of my biggest jobs in life is to defend and 205 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: make my family feel safe. My beautiful wife and my 206 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: four children. It's my job to make them safe. And 207 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: Rob can't and I can only and this situation and 208 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: my only I just I can't even imagine what he's 209 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: going through. 210 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: Well, and if you're here right now, he would say, like, 211 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 2: especially when I lost to Ethan, just because there was 212 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: a lot of complications going on just with me, that 213 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: he's never felt so helpless that he can't do anything horrific. 214 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So you're pregnant and you're managing this nonprofit 215 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: that takes pictures of babies, and you yourself are not 216 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: completely convinced that you won't have to go through this again, 217 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: and you're trying to carry this child to term. Having 218 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: lost four children, you had to have been out of 219 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: your mind a little bit, had to have concerned. 220 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: Well. I mean, one thing that's helpful is we have 221 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 2: dispatch lines in all of our cities, so I'm not 222 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: taking all the calls or fielding them. But like, sometimes 223 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: things come up to me or after the fact, and 224 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: then I'm talking to a family later or they made 225 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: it down, so I'm calling and thanking them and I'm 226 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 2: hearing their story and thinking, oh, they lost their baby 227 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: at this point, and I'm at this point and I'm 228 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: not sharing with them of course that hey, I'm pregnant, 229 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: so you know. Just but I will say it was hard. 230 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: But I think because I've just been through stuff in life, 231 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: I just unfortunately I can function in trauma. 232 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: You soldiered on, is what you did? 233 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I know not everyone could do that, 234 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: you know. Just my faith really is a big part 235 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: of it. But unfortunately, I have a gift of being 236 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: highly functioning in dysfunctional, chaotic situations and traumatic situations. And 237 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 2: I think That's probably why I was able to do it, 238 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: because unfortunately I've been just kind of grew up with 239 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: like this trauma and that than this happening. 240 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: So tell us about the progress. 241 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: Okay. So I am thinking, okay, I think this is 242 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: a girl and I want to get her into cheerleading. 243 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: So I look it up. I'm like, she just be 244 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: eighteen months old, you know. Or I think it was 245 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: a gymnastics. Got to get the tumbling first, right. So 246 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: we go in and we were cautiously optimistic and I said, 247 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: if this baby is healthy, it's a miracle. If this 248 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: baby's a boy, it's a bigger miracle. And so she 249 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: goes through, she checks everything out, and she said, your 250 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: baby's completely healthy, and I'm like, are you serious? Like 251 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: we were so excited. She said, do you want to 252 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: know the gender? And we said, yes, we want to know. 253 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: And on the screen it popped up. It's a boy. 254 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: And we were being told that we were having a 255 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: healthy baby boy that we were told we couldn't have. Yes. Yes, 256 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: and so but I'm only sixteen weeks into the pregnancy 257 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: and I've got to go forty and man, I went 258 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: in like almost every week just to be like, I 259 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: don't know if I felt a move for like three minutes, 260 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: can you check? You know, I'm just checking. So anyone 261 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: who's going through a pregnancy after a loss, like, don't 262 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: worry about how they look at you or how they 263 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: act when you go into the doctor and just say 264 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: check my baby. Please always count the kicks, like keep track. 265 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: But it was like it was the pregnancy was pretty 266 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: good and yeah, so I ended up in twenty twelve. 267 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: August of twenty twelve, they were gonna induce me early 268 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: because of my risk, and I told them, I said 269 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: I'm due August twentieth, and they're like, no, you're do 270 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: August twenty seventh. I'm like, I know, I'm due August twentieth, 271 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: Like I know the math. I kept telling them I'm 272 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: do August twentieth. They said, well, we're going to induce 273 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: August twenty first. I'm like, but you need to do 274 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: it a week early. And I do August twentieth. They're like, no, 275 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: you're not. I'm like, I know when I got pregnant. 276 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: I know I'm doing the twentieth. They want to listen 277 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: to me, so probably like two am on August twentieth, 278 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: my water broke, and so I went. Of course, I 279 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: went to the hospital and everything was just working. Like 280 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: with David, I had to have they had to try 281 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 2: twelve times to get my epidural twelve. I have the 282 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: record at San Jo's Hospital in Denver, by the way, 283 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: I think, and with Ethan it was multiple times. And 284 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing this all 285 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: natural because I don't want to like give me the drugs. 286 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: But I also I'm like, don't want a needle going 287 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 2: in my back that many times. That's scary too, So 288 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: I told yeah, I told the anest anestegiologists, a woman 289 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: by the way, I was like, you have one try, 290 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: and she did it because there's something weird in my back. 291 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: I don't have an injury or anything, but that was 292 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: what the issue she was and she got on the 293 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 2: first time. I like, can I buy you gift? Carter 294 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: something like what can I do for you? So I am, 295 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, we're laboring, but then I'm not really dilating. 296 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 2: Uh my baby went maconium. Like all these things are happening. 297 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 2: The heart rate's going up and down and it's like 298 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: five PM at that point. So it's been like fourteen 299 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 2: fifteen hours since my water broke. And of course I know, 300 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: you know, I know everything that can go wrong. I 301 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 2: know every story of how a baby died, like, I 302 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: know all the stuff. 303 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: That's what you do for a living now. 304 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I asked the doctor, I'm like, do 305 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 2: I need to get a C section? And she said 306 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: if you She said, if something doesn't change in the 307 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: next hour or two, we probably will, but if you 308 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: want to make that decision to do it, we'll just 309 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: go ahead and do it. And I just didn't want 310 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: to make the wrong decision, like that was my biggest 311 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 2: fear that I'd make this decision. So she left, and 312 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 2: she was only gone for a minute. My husband and 313 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: I started talking about it. They ran in, they said, 314 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 2: your baby made the decision and because of the heart rate, 315 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 2: they rushed me in. And thankfully I had that epideur 316 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: role because then I was like ready and prepped for 317 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: a sea section and we have it on video. And 318 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 2: this just actually popped up as a Facebook memory of 319 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: I told my husband, I'm like, you get video no 320 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 2: matter what happens, like you just let it roll. Let 321 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 2: the video roll, and with you know, a sea section, 322 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: it takes a little bit for the baby to cry, 323 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 2: but our son RJ let out his first cry and 324 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: it was the most amazing sound you could ever hear, 325 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 2: because I yeah, just and hearing my husband and me 326 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: and our responses just on video, just it was beautiful. 327 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 2: So we now have a healthy ten year old boy, 328 00:19:52,960 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: and he's just he is so insightful. He always knew 329 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: his big brothers. We brought him home from the hospital 330 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: with the onesie that said the little brother, and you know, 331 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: took him to the cemetery with you know, David and 332 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: Ethan they're buried next to each other, and we you know, 333 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: he's just always known his big brothers and he knows 334 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: David and Ethan like I have a video of him 335 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: when he was two and he's he's like David, Ethan 336 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 2: brothers and just saying that. But when he was about 337 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: five or six, this kid, he's like, Mommy, do you 338 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: have did you ever have any other babies in your 339 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: tummy besides David and Ethan and me? And I'm not 340 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 2: gonna lie to him. I mean, I share my story, 341 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: but you know he wouldn't have heard my whole story. 342 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: And I said, actually I did. They were very, very 343 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: tiny and he's like, what's their names? And I said, well, 344 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: Daddy and I, we just had nicknames for them. One 345 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: was called SIB for sibling, a little sibling, and then 346 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: the other one was for baby. And so that's SIB 347 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: and Bebee. And if you ask r J how many 348 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: siblings he has, he'll say he has four big brothers 349 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: in heaven, David, Ethan, Sib, and Bebe. And he's ten now, 350 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: and I'm glad that he knows his big brothers. During 351 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 2: the pandemic, I think he was seven at that time, 352 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 2: he became really apparent that his brothers weren't here, because 353 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 2: he went probably two or three months without seeing a 354 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: kid at all, and he would cry like, I wish 355 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 2: I had my brother's here because he'd be on like 356 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: FaceTime with friends and stuff, yeah, and they'd be with 357 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: their siblings. And I think it was that time he 358 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 2: really he really understood like how I should have brothers. 359 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: And even to this day there's times where he'll say stuff, 360 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: but he's been given just such a gift of just 361 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: gentleness but fierceness. And even when I remember driving him 362 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: to kindergarten one day and he said, Mommy, will you 363 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 2: tell me more about your dad. Like he's like, tell 364 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: me about Papa. That's what the grandkids call my dad. 365 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: And of course my son never knew him, and I 366 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: told him about my dad and he's like, I'm sorry 367 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: that your dad died when you were so young. Like 368 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 2: the insight and the wisdom and the compassion he had 369 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: so young and he still does. 370 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: We'll be right back when you're talking to other parents 371 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: who now I Lay Me Down to Sleep has taken 372 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: pictures for Are your feelings and stories similar? I mean, 373 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: is it almost a universal thing that that the work 374 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: that now a Lamy does Down to Sleep does, and 375 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: the the photographers that volunteer is an almost universal that 376 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: their life is enriched by having those photos. 377 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, I mean over and over 378 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: and over. 379 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: And do the siblings of those parents also identify with that? 380 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely. Now being with the organization almost twelve years 381 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 2: and this organization is eighteen years old now, I just 382 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: interviewed Erica and Tom. Their baby Matthew, was the first 383 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: baby to receive photographs from now I Leaan Down to 384 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: Sleep as an organization, and Cheryl, the founder, she had 385 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: lost her baby Maddox just a few months prior three 386 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: months prior and started this organization. Like in her grief, 387 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: so Erica and Tom have kids that came after Matthew, 388 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 2: and we talked about that. But I over and over 389 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: and over, the siblings, the parents, grandparents, they're just so grateful. 390 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: If anything I get back from parents are if they 391 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 2: ended up not or declining our services, they tell us 392 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: tell the nurses to be persistent, like to basically force 393 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: parents to and they can't do that, honestly. But I 394 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: do think the medical Affiliate program is an amazing way 395 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: that we can still get the photographs and we tell 396 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: the families you never have to look at them, but 397 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: they'll always be there. We sadly get some families that yeah, 398 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 2: they'd come back and they wish they would have gotten 399 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: those photographs, or they've reached out to hospitals to see 400 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 2: like did you take any pictures of my baby? 401 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: So you can take photographs. You don't have to look 402 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: at them if you feel like it's not something you 403 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: want to do, but three years later, if you do, 404 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: they're there. You're in forty countries. 405 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: Well, we have been present in forty countries. We've paired 406 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 2: that back because we weren't really able to serve some 407 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: of them very well, like we'll give them information, but 408 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: language and cultural barriers really hinder our ability to do 409 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 2: a good job there. So we give them the information 410 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: if they want to do that. But we're basically in 411 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the European countries, in Australia and South 412 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: Africa and New Zealand. 413 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal story that you are the 414 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: benefishary and it means so much to you of an 415 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: organization that you end up being the executive director of 416 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: and while you're the executive director of it, you finally 417 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: get delivered to you a healthy baby. It's a beautiful story. 418 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: They're called rainbow babies. 419 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: Rainbows. That's what our j is is a rainbow baby, 420 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: because that's just. 421 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 2: The promise, the promise for sure. 422 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: I get it. So I share my own email address 423 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: and you know, one of one of the one of 424 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: the goals, obviously, one of the goals of the podcast 425 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: is to tell thought provoking stories, redemptive stories, and of 426 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: course explain that the amazing work you've done in your 427 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: amazing story, just a normal kid from Colorado who dealt 428 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: with a whole lot of stuff. But look where you 429 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: are now and how much this organization now I'll let 430 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: Me down to Sleep has meant your life. And we 431 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: hope that there's a photographer out there listening, or two 432 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: or three photographers listening, or maybe even a mother and 433 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: a father right now dealing with some of the things 434 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: you and Rob dealt with. And so we want to 435 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: we share who we are. So if somebody wants to 436 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: get in touch with you about either volunteering for now 437 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: on leating me down to sleep, or need your services, 438 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: how do they get in touch with you? 439 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: Go to now I Lay Me Down to Sleep dot 440 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: org and then if you need services, just click and 441 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: find a photographer. We really recommend that the nurse call us, 442 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 2: but if you know ahead of time like I did, 443 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: then call ahead of time and then we can arrange 444 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: for a photographer to be there if there's an induction 445 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 2: day or a c section scheduled. So if you're needing 446 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: a photographer, just click Find a photographer, And if you're 447 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: interested in volunteering, just click on volunteer and that has 448 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 2: all the information we need photographers. We also need digital 449 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 2: retouch artists. We also need other volunteers to help spread 450 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: the word and do other work for us. We dispatchers too, 451 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: so we have people that are not photographers that dispatch 452 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 2: the calls and help arrange to get photographers to the hospital. 453 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: Got it. I'm going to tell you something, Jana. Amazing 454 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: story about nominally leating me down to sleep. Also amazing 455 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: story about your own personal perseverance through an enormous amount 456 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: of tragedy. And I sit here and I'll look at 457 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: this mom who is running this organization, who just or 458 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: needed her vows to or football coach husband Rob and 459 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: has RJ. 460 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 3: Is RJ playing football? 461 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 2: By the way, Well there's more to that story. So 462 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: we put him in everything football, baseball, basketball, and he 463 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 2: did pretty well at several of those sports. Well not 464 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: even two years ago. He's like, Mommy, will you teach 465 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: me a backhand spring? 466 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 3: I was like, sure, he got his mom's jeans and. 467 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: He like he like I taught him a cartwell before that. 468 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: And then we're on the trampoline. I'm like, you can 469 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: move us to the grass. Let's sit on the grass. 470 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: And then my husband said, should we put him in 471 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: All Stars here? That was my husband football coach. Yeah, 472 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, I imagine my son being 473 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: a football player, but I mean sure. So we brought 474 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: him in and we thought maybe he could do like 475 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: a just like a prep team or something. And the 476 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: coach there was like, we'd like to put him on 477 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: an elite team. Okay, this is July of twenty twenty one. 478 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 2: So he he does an elite team. It's you know, 479 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 2: in Denver, and he loves it and he's like and 480 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: then I'm like, I'm old school and like boys are bases, 481 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: Like make him base, he's not a flyer. Well, then 482 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: he pulled one of his crazy flexibility tricks. It's called 483 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: a scorpion for those of you who know cheer and 484 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: the coach looked up at the window at me and 485 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 2: I just put my arms up and he's like, you're 486 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: going up. And R Jay was the boy flyer on 487 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: the team. Then they moved him up to level two 488 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: this last year and he is like he now has 489 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: pretty much level five tumbling skills. So that's like he 490 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: has a full Like I don't know how about you all. 491 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: Rod Springs is not too far from you. That's where 492 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: the Olympics are, where the Olympic Committee is. 493 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: Well, cheerleading is going to be Olympic sport. It's been 494 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: voted in right, so he so then his team didn't 495 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: qualify for Summit, which is like the big thing at 496 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: the end of the season in Florida. So they asked 497 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 2: him to move up to the Level four team to 498 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 2: fly and he did amazing. Just got back from Florida 499 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, and now he's next year. He's 500 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: old enough to try out for the youth team USA 501 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: and ask the coaches. You can ask my husband, like, 502 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 2: I did not push this. This is him. He's like 503 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to the Olympics, and he's teaching himself, like 504 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: he's flipping on his own. He's he has a fole now, 505 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: which is that you're flipping and twisting at the same time, 506 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: and it's like all him and I keep having to 507 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: tell him, stop our j it's time to go to 508 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,239 Speaker 2: bet like he trains and trains here we have a 509 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: tumble track. So it's probably my fault because I was 510 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: looking up when can I get my kid into cheerleading? 511 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: But I was thinking I was having a girl. But 512 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: I'm just so excited as a mom and a coach 513 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 2: that he's not just like, oh, I like cheer you know, 514 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,479 Speaker 2: because I always said if I have a girl, she'd 515 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: either be better be very good at cheer or just 516 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: don't like it because I don't know if I want to. 517 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: And he's good, so he's gonna be all the way. 518 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: As any parent listening to this, and you and I 519 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: as parents and all other parents know, these kids do 520 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: not come out with an owner's manual, and they do, 521 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: and you can, and I believe that the old nature 522 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: versus nurture thing. We can guide them and teach them 523 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: and love them and channel their energies. But if they're 524 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: going to be a football player, they're going to be 525 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: a football player. If they're going to be a cheerleader, 526 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: they're going to be a cheerleader. And it's our job 527 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: just to to try to assure that along as best 528 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: we can. So I listen, I had, I had all 529 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: kinds of expectations that all four of my kids are 530 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: going to be X and none of them are that. 531 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: And they are the most delicious, rewarding thing in my life, 532 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: and my expectations be damned. I'll take them just like 533 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: they are. 534 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: Well, I always thought it would be cool to raise 535 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 2: an Olympia, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this could 536 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 2: be realistic. 537 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: That's awesome. 538 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 2: I think the cheerleading gets voted in as an Olympics sport. 539 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: And then it was argile. 540 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: I can tell them I wanted that for him. He's 541 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: just disciplined and it's amazing. 542 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: But what's the most amazing thing is that you and 543 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: Rob were blessed after all the years of trying, and 544 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: after a father and a sister and four children, that 545 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: at your point in life you're running an organization taking 546 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: care of people who have dealt with trauma, just like 547 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: you dealt with and raising your son and Gina. You 548 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: are just a normal person who had an extraordinary life 549 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: and are doing extraordinary work with Now let me down 550 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: to sleep, and it has been my distinct honor to 551 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: meet you. 552 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: Thank you, it's so nice to meet you. 553 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, and thank you for joining 554 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: us this week. If Gina or any other guests has 555 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action 556 00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: by becoming a volunteer photographer, telling friends who are photographers out, 557 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: now I lay me down to sleep, introducing your hospital 558 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: to them, or donating to them, or something else entirely, Guys, 559 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: I really want to hear about it. You can write 560 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I 561 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: promise you I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please 562 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast, 563 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: rate review it, become a premium member at normalfolks dot us. 564 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: All these things that you can do that can help 565 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 566 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.