1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: Where Were You in ninety two is a production of

2
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. A special note this episode features themes

3
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,639
Speaker 1: of violence, explicit language, descriptions of sexual acts and desires,

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,040
Speaker 1: and so many F bombs and may not be suitable

5
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: for all listeners. They turned around and apt Rodney King.

6
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 1: They were really looking for escape thought. The Fraternal Order

7
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,239
Speaker 1: to Police in Texas found this song and they go, oh,

8
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,639
Speaker 1: let's pointing him. He's the problem. And they try to,

9
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, deflect what's really going on, which is cops

10
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: killing kids. Welcome to Where Are You In? A podcast

11
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 1: in which I your host Jason Lafier look back at

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: the major hits, one hit wonders, shocking news stories, and

13
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: irresistible scandals that shaped what might be the wildest, most eclectic,

14
00:00:54,280 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: most controversial twelve months of music effort. This week, legendary

15
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,840
Speaker 1: rapper Ice T drew the ire of President Bush, the SBI,

16
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: the I R S, and the n r A when

17
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: he and his thrash metal side project body Count released

18
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: their dark, vicious track cop Killer. They've been performing the

19
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 1: song for a year before it appeared on their debut album,

20
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: but the record landed in stores just weeks before a

21
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 1: group of police officers were acquitted and the trial for

22
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 1: the beating of black motorist Rodney King, and riots over

23
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 1: the verdict erupted in the streets of Los Angeles. Critics

24
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: accused cop Killer of inciting violence across the country, and

25
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,760
Speaker 1: it became the perfect fodder for right wing politicians aiming

26
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: to take down anything that challenged the idea of family values.

27
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,320
Speaker 1: Ice T found himself and the crosshairs of his conservative

28
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,760
Speaker 1: opponents and at the center of a debate over the

29
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 1: limits of freedom of speech. In this episode, we explore

30
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 1: the origins of cop Killer, the outrage that sparked in

31
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 1: and how ice T reacted to the fallout, and the

32
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 1: prospect of his career ending. Plus, Ice joins us to

33
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: discuss his new book, Split Decision, which reveals his deep

34
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: connection with a close friend and former crime partner who

35
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 1: was sentenced to life in prison that very same year,

36
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: March three. Rodney King, a construction worker who was on

37
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,519
Speaker 1: parole after serving time for robbing a convenience store of

38
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars, was heading home from a friend's house.

39
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,720
Speaker 1: He'd been drinking and smoking weed and was speeding when

40
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,840
Speaker 1: police attempted to pull him over. He tried out running them.

41
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 1: He eventually stopped in Lake Few Terrorists, a suburban neighborhood

42
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Four police officers apprehended him, thinking he

43
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 1: was high on PCP because of his sweating and his strength.

44
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,680
Speaker 1: During the struggle that ensued, when he lunged at one officer,

45
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,920
Speaker 1: the officer hit him in the head with the baton.

46
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,519
Speaker 1: King fell, and two officers continued hitting him as he

47
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 1: tried to stand back up. They continued to strike him

48
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 1: at their sergeant's direction, a total of fifty six times.

49
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,919
Speaker 1: At one point, a fourth officer, Theodore Barsino, who was Latino,

50
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,359
Speaker 1: tried to stop his three white colleagues. He did, however,

51
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 1: stomp on King. Once King was handcuffed, one officer dragged

52
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 1: him face down in the street. King was then taken

53
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 1: away in an ambulance. His injuries included fractures and cuts

54
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 1: on his face, multiple bruises, a broken cheekbone, and a

55
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:27,839
Speaker 1: broken ankle. This was long before smartphones, but as Ben

56
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 1: Westhof rights in his two thousand sixteen book American Gangsters,

57
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: a man named George Holliday recorded King's beating for nine

58
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 1: minutes with a video camera from the balcony of his

59
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: apartment he sold the tape to a local TV station

60
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 1: for five dollars. The station sent the footage to the

61
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Police Department and the officers were charged with

62
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 1: excessive force. As a documented assault aired on news outlets

63
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 1: all over the US. It was inescapable, despite the omnipresence

64
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: of the footage and the undeniably hostile beating at captured.

65
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: The trials, mostly white, jerk and Semi Valley, forty miles

66
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: from downtown l A was not convinced. On April twenty nine,

67
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 1: all four officers were acquitted on their assault charges, while

68
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 1: three were acquitted on their excessive force charges. A year later,

69
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,479
Speaker 1: the officers would go before a jury in a federal

70
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 1: trial and two of them would be found guilty, with

71
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: both serving thirty months in prison. L A p D

72
00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,279
Speaker 1: Police Chief Daryl Gates took some heat for the incident.

73
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 1: He responded by announcing his retirement. That was hardly the

74
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: consolation confused and incent citizens needed after that original verdict.

75
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 1: For some of them, nothing would alleviate the pain and

76
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: the rage they felt. If they couldn't get justice, they

77
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 1: wanted to revenge. The Los Angeles riots began on a

78
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 1: Korean owned deli when five black men attempted to steal

79
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: bottles of whiskey and then attacked the owner's son when

80
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 1: he tried to stop them. They threw the bottles at

81
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 1: the door, shattering it, with one man yelling this is

82
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: for Rodney King before they ran off. Police officers weren't

83
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 1: able to touch them, but did arrest another man who

84
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,360
Speaker 1: was swinging a baseball bat at a car with two

85
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,280
Speaker 1: white men inside it. Elsewhere, a crowd chucked rocks at

86
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: officers who'd arrested a teenage boy. They were treated for

87
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: fear of their safety. Riders began pulling white people from

88
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: their vehicles and assaulting them. One man, Reginald Denny, was

89
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,040
Speaker 1: hit with a hammer, a brick, and an oxygen tank

90
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 1: and suffered brain damage. Other riders swarmed l a p

91
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 1: D headquarters, curling trash cans at it and burning a

92
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: parking kiosk, while others targeted the Los Angeles Times office.

93
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 1: Protesters launched molotov cocktails into the air. Businesses, including gun stores,

94
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 1: were looted, some were severely damaged, buildings caught on fire.

95
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,280
Speaker 1: You could hear hip hop group n W A song

96
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 1: Fucked the Police blaring from car stereos, a fitting soundtrack

97
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: to the unleashed fury, devastation and chaos US. The National Guard,

98
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,159
Speaker 1: the Marines, and the U. S Army were called in

99
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 1: Schools shut Down, then West tough Rights and American Gangsters.

100
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 1: That the total cost of destruction citywide was estimated to

101
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: be a billion dollars and that more than sixty people

102
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 1: died during the riots, but witnesses say many more were

103
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:28,799
Speaker 1: killed than what the news reported. Flashback to the nineteen eighties.

104
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 1: Ice Tea was not yet NYPD sergeant odif and Finn

105
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: Tutuola on Law and Order SPU, or much of an

106
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: actor at all. He'd had some bit parts. He was, however,

107
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: a gifted lyricist and producer, and one of the first

108
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 1: l A rappers to break big. Born Tracy Merrow and

109
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,919
Speaker 1: raised in an affluent New Jersey suburb, Ice was forced

110
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: to go live with his aunt in south central Los

111
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 1: Angeles after both his parents died of heart attacks within

112
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,599
Speaker 1: the span of four years. He attended Crenshaw High School,

113
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 1: where his classmates included members of the rival gang ings,

114
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: the Crips and the Brims later known as the Bloods.

115
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 1: He was never part of either, but hung around some

116
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 1: crips who took a liking to him. At seventeen, he

117
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 1: moved out of his aunt's place and was able to

118
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: get a cheap apartment. After serving four years in the

119
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 1: army in Hawaii, he returned to l A to make

120
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: money stealing rolexes, jewelry, and cars. When it got too dicey,

121
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: he decided to leave his life of crime behind. He

122
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: pivoted to hip hop, specifically hip hop, inspired by his

123
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: checkered past and life on the streets in South Central

124
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:39,160
Speaker 1: As I said, I rap about what I know. In

125
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 1: his two thousand two books Split Decision, he calls his

126
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 1: breakout song six in the Morning, which is widely acknowledged

127
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 1: as a defining track in the gangster rap movement, a

128
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 1: piece of faction, saying quote, it's a fictional adventure based

129
00:07:52,520 --> 00:08:02,239
Speaker 1: on factual experiences. The song opens with the lines six

130
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: in the morning, Police at my door, Fresh Adidas squeak

131
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: across the bathroom floor, out my back window. I make

132
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 1: my escape. I didn't even get a chance to grab

133
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 1: my old school tape. Later, he wraps I'm a self

134
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 1: made monster of the city streets, remotely controlled by hard

135
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 1: hip hop beats, but just living in the city as

136
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 1: a serious task, didn't know what the cops wanted, didn't

137
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: have time to ask. He eventually became the first rapper

138
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 1: signed to Warner Brothers label Sire Records, then home to Madonna.

139
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: By the end of UD put out three albums of

140
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,680
Speaker 1: Tough menacing explicit gangster rap that earned favorable reviews from critics,

141
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 1: but also a lot of attention from sensors sex, drugs,

142
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,840
Speaker 1: gun violence, how police were bulldozing Western civilization. Nothing was

143
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,600
Speaker 1: off the table in his detailed, profane, sometimes disturbing accounts

144
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 1: of hustling, running from the law, and rebellion against authority.

145
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,040
Speaker 1: His debut album, rhymed As was one of the first

146
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 1: to get a prontal advisory sticker slapped on it. Ice

147
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,439
Speaker 1: embrace that sticker like a badge of honor. He scoffed

148
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: at the idea of censorship. He believed in what he

149
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: called quote artistic integrity and rejected the idea of recording

150
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,079
Speaker 1: radio audits of his songs, which weren't getting much airplay anyway.

151
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,200
Speaker 1: He addressed this on his track Radio Suckers. They're making

152
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: radio whack. People have to escape. But even if I'm banned,

153
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,959
Speaker 1: I'll sell a million tapes. He wasn't wrong his trio

154
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,880
Speaker 1: of LPs for Warner Brothers seven Ryan plays Power, the

155
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 1: Iceberg freedom of speech. Just watch what you say. We're

156
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 1: all certified platinum or gold, so yeah, fuck radio. He

157
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,200
Speaker 1: was raking it in just from sales and touring. I

158
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,440
Speaker 1: didn't think his refusal to play by the rules would

159
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: result in a serious blow to his career. Or rather,

160
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,719
Speaker 1: he took great pleasure in the gamble he got off

161
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,000
Speaker 1: and being an agitator, living on the edge made him

162
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,200
Speaker 1: feel alive. As he writes in two thousand elevens Ice

163
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 1: a mem war of gangster life and redemption from South

164
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 1: Central to Hollywood. Quote, I'm not a cat to stay

165
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,439
Speaker 1: on cruise control. I like to keep ship moving. As

166
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 1: the eighties came to a close, he was ready for

167
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 1: the next challenge. He cemented his status as a formidable

168
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 1: force and gangster rap. Now it was time to take

169
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 1: a stabish on the even harder metal. Ice had gotten

170
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 1: into rock because of his cousin, Earl, with whom he'd

171
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: shared a bedroom when he was living with his aunt

172
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,360
Speaker 1: as a kid in junior high in the mid seventies.

173
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,719
Speaker 1: Earl exposed him to the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Led

174
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 1: Zeppelin and Black Sabbath guitar wielding Titans, who left a

175
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,160
Speaker 1: major imprint on him his iced tea. He'd sampled Black

176
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 1: Sabbath and incorporated guitars into his music. As he writes,

177
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 1: an ice rap was a form of rock because it,

178
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 1: like rock, was an active aggression of a revolt against

179
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 1: the status quo. But in while hanging out with some

180
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 1: of his old pals in the studio who were clamoring

181
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 1: to record with him, he decided to start an actual

182
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: hard rock band. They called themselves body Count. The mostly

183
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: white members of the hardcore scene, some tattooeds, some skinheads,

184
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: weren't always the most welcoming audience for a group of

185
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: black dudes showing up on their turf. They were suspicious

186
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: and racist, and body Count did nothing to hide their roots.

187
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: As the group's guitarist Ernie Cunnigan, better known as Ernie

188
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,720
Speaker 1: c recalls, you know they were rock. There were black

189
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 1: rockers that played rock during that time. They were more

190
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 1: accepted than us because they were the makeup and all

191
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,080
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. We came out like we just

192
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 1: came from a drive box, but we didn't look like

193
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,080
Speaker 1: a rock man we looked like, but once body Count

194
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 1: started playing, many skeptics changed their minds. Not that I

195
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 1: thought they had anything to prove. As he noted in

196
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,800
Speaker 1: his song body Count from his album O G, original

197
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,080
Speaker 1: gangster rock music was black music, originated by forefathers like

198
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: Chuck Berry and Little Richard. He reiterates the sentiment in

199
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,160
Speaker 1: his book Split Decision, saying quote, they took the blues,

200
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,600
Speaker 1: electrified it, and sped it up. Even the name rock

201
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,200
Speaker 1: and roll was just the old time black slang for

202
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,960
Speaker 1: fucking straight up. Ernie c who was ICE's friend from

203
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 1: Crenshaw High School, hooked him up with Perry Farrell of

204
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,120
Speaker 1: Jane's Addiction, who invited him to take part in a

205
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: new roving festival he was launching called Lallapalooza. Ice accepted,

206
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,200
Speaker 1: dividing his set in half, playing some of his solo

207
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 1: work before inviting body Count out onto the stage. The

208
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 1: performances were a success, and Ice found himself earning cred

209
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: with both hip hop heads and alternative audiences. Body Count

210
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: didn't have much material, but the response they witnessed it

211
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,400
Speaker 1: shows proved to them that they were onto something. After

212
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 1: the first tour, Sire Records signed the group Ice now

213
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 1: had two deals with the same label. Body Count hunker

214
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: down in the studio to record their self titled debut

215
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: full length, which Sire released in March, a volcanic blast

216
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 1: of punk and metal that came wrapped in a miniature

217
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: body bag. Props to that marketing team body Count. That

218
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: album took a long, cold look at the dark side

219
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 1: of South central Los Angeles. This was a world played

220
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,079
Speaker 1: by poverty, drugs, and desperation, where violent gangs clashed and

221
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 1: kids were the casualty. The tension mounts on with the

222
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,400
Speaker 1: body count Ice cries and the title track illustrating not

223
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: only the bloodshed, but how impervious viewers have become to

224
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 1: the young corpses piling up in the news, they were

225
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 1: just blips before the anchor jumped to a sports segment.

226
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 1: This is what inspired the group's name. The World's insane

227
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 1: while you drink Champagne and I'm living in black brain

228
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: goes another line. This was also a land where good

229
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,319
Speaker 1: guys with the bad guys, where police murdered men for

230
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,480
Speaker 1: the way they dressed, for the type of music, they

231
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,719
Speaker 1: blasted for the color of their skin. Body Counts most

232
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 1: memorable and most controversial song was cop Killer. It's about

233
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: his subtle as baby got Back, and for that reason,

234
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 1: some whould argue even funnier. It does exactly what it

235
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 1: says on the tin, with Ice reciting and it's spoken

236
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: word intro, I'd like to take a pig out here

237
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,839
Speaker 1: in this parking lot and shoot him in their motherfucking face.

238
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 1: Cue the thrashing, foreboding guitars before Ice unleashes the titular

239
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: phrase before he launches into the breakneck chorus, we get

240
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 1: a fuse, a lot of shots fired into our ears,

241
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: as if we're the officer at the receiving end of

242
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 1: the narrator's maniacal rampage. Then the chorus, cop killer, better

243
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: you than me, cop Killer, Fuck police brutality, cop Killer.

244
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 1: I know your family's grieving, fuck them, cop Killer, But

245
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 1: tonight we get even. Okay. I know it may seem

246
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 1: weird that I said this song was funny, but it's

247
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 1: so over the top, so unsubtle, that by today's standards

248
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: it sounds almost quaint. But in this was risky business,

249
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: which was ICE's favorite kind of business. Ice has described

250
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 1: cop Killer as a protest song based on psycho killer

251
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: talking Heads seventy seven new wave and art rock classic.

252
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 1: The track was ICE's dark, twisted fantasy of an armed

253
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,120
Speaker 1: assailant who loses his black friend at the hands of

254
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 1: police and then loses his mind hunting down cops one

255
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 1: night and snuffing them out one by one. It's nuts

256
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,040
Speaker 1: to think he wrote it before Hordes of l a

257
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 1: residence on a war path ripped through the city, and

258
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 1: the spring of In Split Decision, Ice recalls feeling like

259
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 1: the l A p D Was a quote unquote criminal regime,

260
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: and notes that the beating of Rodney King was hardly

261
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: an isolated incident. He even remembers seeing cop cars in

262
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: his neighborhood with Confederate flags on their bumpers. Black men

263
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 1: feared the Los Angeles police, even if they've done nothing wrong.

264
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,120
Speaker 1: Coming into a body count rehearsal. One day, Ice was

265
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: humming Psycho Killer and his bandmate beat Master V told

266
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 1: him they should write a song called cop Killer, revealing

267
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: that he had a friend who'd been shot by police

268
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 1: in the back and paralyzed. Ices other bandmate, Ernie C

269
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: wrote the music, Ice wrote the lyrics. If the subject

270
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 1: matter was gruesome, Ice asserted that it shouldn't be reboting.

271
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 1: As he writes in his memoir Ice, I'm one of

272
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: those people who thought that when they said America is

273
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: the land of free speech, they were sincere. I thought

274
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: free speech meant I could say whatever I wanted to say,

275
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 1: so I just spit it out. I didn't give it

276
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 1: too much afterthought. With Cop Killer, Ice put slasher movie

277
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 1: imagery to music, hoping to use a slice of outlandish

278
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 1: camp fiction to depict a harsh truth. Racial bias and

279
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,640
Speaker 1: police brutality were very real. Innocent men were dying. But

280
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: the end of the song breaks and fiction, ripping straight

281
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 1: from the headlines. Fucked the police for Darryl Gates, fucked

282
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 1: the police for Rodney King, fucked the police from my

283
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 1: dead homies, Fucked the police for your freedom. As Ernie

284
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 1: C explains, truth telling was body counts entire m O.

285
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 1: We wrote songs about what we knew about, and this

286
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,679
Speaker 1: is what we knew. We know about racism, and we

287
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 1: know about a cop killing. That's what made it so irrelevant.

288
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 1: But his Ice or counts and split decision. When I

289
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: wrote Cop Killer, it wasn't addressing all cops. It was

290
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:42,200
Speaker 1: addressing racist, abusive, corrupt, out of control cops. Cop Killer

291
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily groundbreaking. Compton hip hop group and w A

292
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 1: had already rapped about slaying cops and their infamous song

293
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 1: Fucked the Police. How Eric Clapton and even scored a

294
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 1: number one hit with his cover of Bob Marley's I

295
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 1: Shot the Sheriff way back into It was the timing

296
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 1: of the track's release that proved to be its undoing.

297
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:14,800
Speaker 1: Soon Ice would have everyone powerful on his back up. Next,

298
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 1: after the break, we dig into the nationwide scandal surrounding

299
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,879
Speaker 1: Iced Tea and Cop Killer after it came out in

300
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: just weeks before violent riots tore through the streets of

301
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Iced Tea had written cop kular In and

302
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: had been performing at Lallapalus of the year before it

303
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 1: appeared on body Counts debut album, But when the l

304
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: A p D officers who had beaten Rodney King were acquitted,

305
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: the response was intense and immediate. The Los Angeles race

306
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 1: riots broke out in April, just weeks after body Count dropped.

307
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: Body Count member Ernie c recalls the moment he first

308
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 1: saw the smoke and fire from the riots. He was

309
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: at ICE's house in the Hollywood Hills doing interviews with

310
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 1: some journalist who'd flown in from Germany and they get

311
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: here and it's like, hey, wind ellis burned it to

312
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 1: the ground. They're like, what's going on? And we're like, well,

313
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: this song right here kind of predicts. It's a precursor

314
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 1: to what's going on right now. We came out with

315
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 1: this last month, and this is what happens, you know now,

316
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 1: So you know, it wasn't a surprise to us, just

317
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: you know, it was getting to a boiling point given

318
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 1: the circumstances, controversy over cop Killer seemed inevitable. When it

319
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: caught wind of the song, The Combined Law Enforcement Association

320
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: of Texas or CLEAT, the state's largest police advocacy group,

321
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 1: boycotted Time Warner. It's president and co founder, Ronda Lord,

322
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: not only called for Warner Brothers to remove cop Killer

323
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 1: from Body Counts album and for the company and Iced

324
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: Tea to apologize, but it also demanded that ICE make

325
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 1: a million dollar donation to a community service program. All

326
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: of this July six, when Time Warners shareholders would have

327
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: a meeting in Beverly Hills. Other police organizations followed suit,

328
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 1: vilifying ICE and Time Warner media outlets reported on the boycott, but,

329
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: as Dan Charnis writes in his two thousand ten books

330
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 1: The Big Payback The History of the Business of Hip Hop,

331
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: most of them misidentified cop Killer as an Ice t

332
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: song and referred to it as a rap track rather

333
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: than a heavy metal track. The public outcry became specifically

334
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: a hip hop issue. Was an election year only made

335
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 1: matters worse for Ice and body count. Cop Killer was

336
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: the perfect target for right wing Republicans, an unflinching, incendiary

337
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: celebration of violence. It was the antithesis of conservative quote

338
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: unquote family values, and white kids loved it. They went

339
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: mad to it at live shows, washing and pumping their

340
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: fists in the air, shouting along with the lyrics. Ice

341
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: rights in his book Split Decision, the main thing I

342
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: learned about cop Killer is this, when you inject white

343
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 1: kids with black rage, and you do it through something

344
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: as seductive and persuasives rock and roll, that's dangerous to

345
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: the people in authority. That's always going to be seen

346
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: as a threat. Ice recalls wanting the racket to die down,

347
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 1: but things only escalated. The l a county board, an

348
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: Alabama governor, sixty members of the House of Representatives, led

349
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: by House Minority Whip Newt Gingrich politicians began piling on

350
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: cop Killer. Soon President George H. W. Bush and Vice

351
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: President Dan Quail had both condemned the release of body count,

352
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: with Quail declaring at a campaign fundraiser, I am outraged

353
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: at the fact that Time Warner, a major corporation, is

354
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: making money off a record called cop Killer that suggests

355
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: that it is okay to kill cops. I find that outrageous.

356
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: Quail name dropped cop Killer continually during his and Bushes

357
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: campaign against Old Clinton that year. Dennis S. Martin, former

358
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 1: president of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, claimed

359
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 1: this song had been implicated and quote at least two

360
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: incidents and has inflamed racial tensions in cities across the country,

361
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: and he called it quote an affront to the officers

362
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: alone who have been killed in the line of duty.

363
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: Time Warner employees received nasty letters and phone calls not

364
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: to mention death threats. Still, Gerald Levin, the white co

365
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: CEO of Time Warner at the time Penda Wall Street Journal,

366
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: op ed to clarify his stance on the matter. He

367
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: asserted there, rather than glorifying violence, cop Killer was a

368
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: portrait of what was going on in its narrator's head.

369
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,239
Speaker 1: It was fantasy. He explained that instead of trying to

370
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: quote silence, the messenger opponent should be quote heating the

371
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: anguished cry contained in his message. He added the dropping

372
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: the song from Body count would be a quote destructive precedent,

373
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: hampering artists freedom of expression in the future. Ice too

374
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: initially stood his ground defending the message behind Cop Killer,

375
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: but then he started feeling like he was under piercing scrutiny.

376
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: He'd become a national security risk, he said, the I

377
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: r S started to audit his taxes, trying to determine

378
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: if he was amassing guns for some sort of coup,

379
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: and that his daughter was even pulled out of junior

380
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: high school and questioned about his possible ties to any

381
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: quote paramilitary organizations. He had nothing to hide. Everyone knew

382
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: he had a criminal background because he'd been honest about

383
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: it from the start of his career. But he was

384
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: growing uneasy, feeling like some powerful people were closing in.

385
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: The U S President and VP had decried Body Counts music,

386
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: but actor and National Rifle Association President Charles and Heston

387
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: took his disapproval straight to that July sixteenth time Warner

388
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: shareholders meeting, which took place at the Regent Beverly, Wilshire Hotel.

389
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: Well pickets sported side lines with slogans like rapid crap outside.

390
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: Haston addressed a group of roughly a thousand at the meeting.

391
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: He had stock in the company has been Westhough rights

392
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: in Original Gangsters. Haston read lyrics from cop Killer and

393
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: another body Count tract, KKK Bitch to drive his point home. Okay,

394
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: I gotta pause to just marvel at the absolute fucking

395
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: absurdity of KKK Bitch, which I literally cannot even say

396
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: without laughing. I won't go into too much detail, just

397
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: google it, but I will say this joint is about

398
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: fictional white supremacist orgies the body Count throw Down South

399
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: to teach white girls how to properly get laid. It

400
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: is graphic and deranged and makes even knee blush. Tipper Goore,

401
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: the wife of then Democratic VP candidate L Gore, had

402
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: co founded the Parents Music Resource Center or p MRC,

403
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: which advocated for labeling the covers of records that featured

404
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: profane language or content with a parental Advisory sticker. Kk

405
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: He bitch includes a mention of her young nieces to

406
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: picture middle aged oscar winning thespian Charleton Heston. Mr Ben

407
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: hur himself reciting any of its lyrics is the most

408
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: cringe thing I've imagined so far in this podcast. Meanwhile,

409
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: as Is re calls in his memoir ice before he

410
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: began reading the words to cop Killer, Heston announced, these

411
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: are the lyrics to Killer. Cop Oops, I mean cop Killer.

412
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: Dude clearly hadn't memorized his lines. On a more serious note,

413
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: two police officers who had been shot in the face

414
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: also showed up to criticize the song. The July six

415
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: deadline passed and Cop Killer remained available for purchase, but

416
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: shareholders were spooked. Time Warner brought in a crisis management expert.

417
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: Something needed to happen. Warner Brothers had stood behind body

418
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: Counts music home to Madonna and Prince and Lewd comedian

419
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: Andrew ice Clay. It was no stranger to controversial artists,

420
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: but the US President and the FBI also oku money

421
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: on the line that ship was serious. CEO Gerald Levin

422
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: in the label were never carrious position, even if all

423
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: the uproar helped boost Body Counts sales. Some music stores

424
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't carry it. Meanwhile, as west Hough notes and Original Gangsters,

425
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: the police department in Greensboro, North Carolina, threatened to ignore

426
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: a stores emergency calls if it continued to stock the album.

427
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: I didn't want Warner Brothers to take responsibility for a

428
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: cut he had written. West off details and meeting the

429
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: artist had with Time Warner in which it placed a

430
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: quarter on a table, saying it represented its music division

431
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: and that Ice was just a tiny spot on that quarter.

432
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: But the musician says he wasn't forced to disavow cop Killer,

433
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: writing an Ice They never treated me like ship, never

434
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: got mad or yelled at me. Rather, Ice t says

435
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: he understood the gravity of the situation. Warner Brothers had

436
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: even been faced with bomb scares. As Dan Charnis writes

437
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: into Big Payback, a bomb squad brought in to investigate

438
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: even detonated a package. Ice empathized with the guys who

439
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: signed his checks, so he told Warner to remove the

440
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: song from the album. Cleet ceased its boycott. Ultimately body Count.

441
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: The album was re released without cop Killer, and the

442
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: song was given away as a free single at body

443
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: Count concerts to hear it today. You can snag a

444
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: CD copy of the original pressing of the album on

445
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: eBay or discards, or you can listen to it on YouTube.

446
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: But as many discovered in the wake of George Floyd's

447
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: murder at the hands of Minneapples police in two thousand twenty,

448
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: it is not streaming or available to download. The reason

449
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: why remains a mystery. But Jeffrey Weiss, a Warner Brothers

450
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: product manager for body Count's debut album, speculated to Billboard,

451
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: I can really imagine ice T doesn't want to think

452
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: about ninet ninety two that much, m unlike yours truly.

453
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: After the debacle, Warner dropped some of its wrap acts

454
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: because of the questionable content of their music. As for

455
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: ice t solo rap career at the Sire label, well,

456
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: his victoriol towards the Police was well intact on his

457
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: planned fifth album, Home Invasion, which boasted provocative, violent cover

458
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: art and included lyrics about cops breath smelling like semen

459
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: and a narrator taking them in an alley and giving

460
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: them a pop pop pop to the dome time. Warner

461
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: balked at this, even though he still owed the label

462
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: two Records. Ice knew what was at stake for him,

463
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: his bandmates, and the label if he kept their arrangement

464
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: and continued to speak filter free constant conflict, He felt

465
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: he had no choice but to ask to terminate his

466
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: embody Counts contracts, says body Counts er Andy, See, we

467
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: were stopped. We were stopped at a stop, you know

468
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: what I mean. And in the band, which is brand new,

469
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: we weren't going anywhere. Mortars didn't want to book us,

470
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, and when people yeah, it was just time

471
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: for us to go to keep moving forward. After having

472
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: worked with Ice for six years, Warner Brothers obliged and

473
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: turned him loose. Released on Priority Records in March, Home

474
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: Invasion went gold, but sold about half the copies of

475
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: its predecessor, O G Original Gangster. Some records stores refused

476
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: to carry it, others kept its placement. Discreet reviews were mixed.

477
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: ICE's music career is never the same. Even after cop

478
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: Cler disappeared from Body Count's debut album, police groups continue

479
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: to boycott the band shows. He'd arguably become more famous

480
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: for his acting on Law and Order SVU, as Ice

481
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: writes in his two thousand eleven memoir, Ice. People think

482
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: controversy helps your bottom line, but I disagree. There was

483
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: a big trade off. Yes, you sell some records with

484
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: all that static, the cancelation of concerts, the hiking insurance

485
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: for the shows you do get, there are way more

486
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: costs to come along with controversy than benefits. I would

487
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: never advise people the controversy is the way to blow up.

488
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: You'll become known, but will translate into money probably not.

489
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: Ice had long been considered an o G, but after

490
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: he essentially tossed cop Killer in the bargain bin of

491
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: his catalog hip hop magazine, the source castigated him, with

492
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: the REGINALD C. Dennis writing an op ed titled the

493
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: Cops gag Iced Tea as Rerap Dead. The piece began

494
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: mark July on your calendars as the beginning of the

495
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: end of rap music? Would conservatives win? Some of ICE's

496
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: peers now deem him a coward. They became as harsh

497
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: as critics. He claims, why stifle his creativity, his resounding

498
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: rallying cry against police brutality for a bunch of stuffy Republicans?

499
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: Why give in? Why risk opening the floodgates from more

500
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: censorship in hip hop and music in general. Still, he

501
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: stands his ground ready in his memoir walk in My

502
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: Shoes for a day. That was some stressful, hectic shit.

503
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: That was heat coming from the government of the United States.

504
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: I was in quicksand for months. There was no safe

505
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: ground to stand up. The body count backlash took its

506
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 1: toll on Iced Tea. But in addition to career drama,

507
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: he was dealing with some personal stuff. In ninety two well,

508
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: he had stopped coordinating jewel heights to pursue music. His

509
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: longtime friend, an ex crime partner, Spike, had fallen deeper

510
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: and deeper into crime, his schemes getting more and more elaborate,

511
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: more and more dangerous. After one of his robberies resulted

512
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: in a fatal shooting, Spike, who orchestrated the theft, was

513
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: sentenced to thirty five years to life in prison. Ice

514
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: was shocked when he heard the news. He and Spike

515
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: had never been by during their days executing heist. He

516
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: soon learned that Spike hadn't shot the victim, but had

517
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: been implicated for overseeing the robbery. Spike disappeared. I didn't

518
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: hear from him for three years. When he finally did,

519
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: Spike was calling him from a phone in prison. At

520
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: that moment, I became very aware of how lucky he

521
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: was to have abandoned the life of hustling and heights.

522
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: He'd had Potus, the FBI, the I R S, the

523
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: n r A, and the police on his back, but

524
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: unlike Spike, he had his freedom up Next, after the break,

525
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: Ice Tea joins us to talk about the legacy of

526
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: Cop Killer, the fallout from its release, and his new

527
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: book Split Decision, which chronicles his life as a jewel

528
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: thief and traces the very different paths he and Spike followed.

529
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: Please know this segment contains themes of violence, explicit language,

530
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: and cursing that may not be suitable for all listeners.

531
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Where Were You and nine two. We've

532
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: been discussing Ice Team and as heavy metal band Body

533
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Counts track cop Killer and Off the Rails, controversial protest

534
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: anthem that address police brutality. Now it's time to hear

535
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: from the man behind it, rapper, actor, songwriter and producer

536
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Ice Team. So can you tell me about that particular

537
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: moment in your life? I've I've asked a lot of

538
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: the guests, where were you in ninety two? That's how

539
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I start the interview, and uh, you you can tell

540
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: me very clearly where you were. And this book is,

541
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: like I said, sort of hinges on that particular moment

542
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: in time. So you know, ninety two is kind of

543
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: like when we got hit with the cop Killers ship,

544
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, like they turned around and after Rodney King,

545
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: they were really looking for escapegoat. They were looking. You know,

546
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: the pressure was on the police because obviously for video

547
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: they people saw they were out of pocket, and the

548
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: Fraternal Order the police in Texas found this song and

549
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: they go, oh, let's pointing him. He's the problem. And

550
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: they try to, you know, deflect what's really going on,

551
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: which is cops killing kids. To me making an imaginary

552
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: strong about someone who who went after the cops. Now,

553
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: now I gotta remember, if the cops weren't out of

554
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: pocket at that time, there was no energy to write

555
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: cop killer, you know. If the cops are out doing

556
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: the right thing, pulling cats out of trees and everyone

557
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: loved him, I couldn't have done fireman killer. I couldn't

558
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: have done school teacher killer. I couldn't have done anything.

559
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: But the cops were at that place where people were

560
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: like these motherfucker's and I come up with this character. Well,

561
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: the ship at the fan for me, you know, the

562
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: president came after me everybody time Warner was with madness. Simultaneously,

563
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: I got one of my friends who disappeared, and next

564
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: thing you know, Spike was gone. Spike went to prison

565
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: and didn't make a phone call for five years. Um,

566
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: and now I'm getting these broken like what happened? What

567
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: went wrong? This? That and the other? You know, somebody

568
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: got killed and Spike got the got the charge which

569
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: is a conspiracy for setting it up. And they told

570
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: me he had a life sentence and I'm like wow,

571
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: you know wow. So but this not only was happening

572
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: with Spike, it was happening with multiple with my friends.

573
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: So no matter what music you ever heard out of

574
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: Ice Team, it's always gone down in the turmoil of

575
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: the reality of it. And that's why I see music

576
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: always is a is a warning like this looks like fun,

577
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: but it all One of my first records on the

578
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: first album is fun in the beginning, but it's paying

579
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: me in and uh yeah, that's why we ended up

580
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: doing this book. You have to really defend yourself when

581
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: this was going down to there's this line that I

582
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: really like. You say it's fiction. I mean, it's based

583
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: on reality, but I'm not. I'm not killing cops. I

584
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: don't want to kill cops. You say, if if you

585
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: believe Ice Tea is out there killing cops, and you

586
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: believe David Bowie is an astronaut. The problem with hip

587
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: hop is that it's blurs that line so many times.

588
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: Sometimes I am talking about myself. Sometimes I'm creating characters

589
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: that are living it out. Like in Power I said,

590
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm living large as possible. Posse's unstoppable style, topical, vividly optical. Listen,

591
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: you'll see them sometimes I'll be them, so you know,

592
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: and colors, I become a gang member, and and and

593
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: and you know. So this is it. I just think

594
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: because it was hip hop and it was such an

595
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: un understood genre, they didn't want to give us that

596
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: artistic license. It had to be you know, autobiographical card

597
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: directly even though. But it was a lot of racism

598
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 1: thrown in there too, because body count ain't rapped. Body

599
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: counts rock, but they called it a rap record because

600
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: if you say rock, a lot of white people will

601
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: go well, I like Fleetwood Mac. I mean like, what's

602
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: the problem? Rock is rebellion? You know, so they knew

603
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: what they were doing. You know, when you say rap,

604
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: you say nigga music, you did what I'm saying that

605
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: that black music they talked. So I got put into

606
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: that zone for minute, but I hadn't. I didn't have

607
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: to defend myself with my fans. Next record, like stop,

608
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: apologize and don't waste your time because you're not really

609
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: talking to people that like you any fucking way. So

610
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, now here I am. How what many years later,

611
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: the longest running cop in the history of television? How

612
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: about that for America? The ironing, the irony. I don't

613
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: think you could find more ironic person than you know.

614
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: What is it like? You know you're still performing? You

615
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: can you just forgot? There's a twist at the end

616
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: of the dayn book where you win and Grammy and

617
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, your body Count wins to Grammy in one

618
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: and you you surprised. You're surprised, Spike. I won't say

619
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: exactly how I don't want to spoil it, but um,

620
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: what is it like to perform cop Killer today? Yeah?

621
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: Do you have any hesitations? What's the feat like? No hesitations? Um?

622
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: I just I mean, right now, I hate to say it,

623
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: but it's a fucking hit, and it's a hit. Seat

624
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: music happens and climates. You did get what I'm saying.

625
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: So if we're watching, if we're listening to Grateful Dead,

626
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: you might want to take some acid. Because that's the sixties,

627
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: that's the climate. Body Count happened in climate of rage

628
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: against the machine, public enemy, so it almost needs that

629
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: unrest for it to work. Right. It's it's so kind

630
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: of like when Obama was president. You couldn't even be mad.

631
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: You like my Obamas, like, oh yeah, by the way,

632
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: we caught in live and y'all chill, have some more champagne.

633
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: Take it easy. He was just so smooth, like, you know,

634
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: whether the country, whatever the country was. Obama never lets

635
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: you know anything was going wrong. It was just like, yo,

636
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: jay Z will be up here tonight. We're gonna play

637
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: a little basketball. You know. It was very player. Baba

638
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: was the most player president. Okay. Then Trump came scared

639
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: ship out of everybody. Trump's like I'm gonna die tomorrow,

640
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: you know, and perfect climate for rage to come back.

641
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: Body count and the cops were back out of control.

642
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: So now I'm singing a record it's twenty five years old.

643
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: But the people understand what I'm saying because the keywords

644
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: and cop killer is. The theory of it is is

645
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: that if me and you were in the street and

646
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: you're a police officer and you're about to take my

647
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: life at that moment, fuck law. Now we're too human

648
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: beings in the streets. So it's better you than me.

649
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna this kneel because you're the law, and

650
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: let you put a bullet in my fucking head. George

651
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: Floyd had every reason to fight back. They were trying

652
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: to kill him, you know, so that submitship. So but

653
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: the keywords is cop killer is better you than me?

654
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: Cop killer? Fuck police brutality. This is a song that's

655
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: bent on someone who's spilt that over police brutality. So

656
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: when I go out and I sing it right now,

657
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: I'm quite sure people like, wow, you're a law in

658
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: order you're singing it. But trust me, Dick Wolf. They

659
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 1: hired Iced Tea for Iced Tea. They know who I am,

660
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: and they know how I stand politically. You made it

661
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: very clear in the lyrics what you were going for.

662
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: You say police brutality, explicitly. It's almost like you know, foreshadowing,

663
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: you know, these these these recent moments that's just very

664
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: much back in the news in a major way. Um,

665
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: what do you think the legacy of body Count is?

666
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: What do you think the legacy of a track like

667
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: cop Killer is? I just think, you know, basically body

668
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: Count is just good protests music, and we think sing

669
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: about issues, We sing about topics. You know, with heavy metal,

670
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just being brutal, you know.

671
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: So we got those songs No Remorse and all that hardcore.

672
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: You know. I'm writing a new album it's called Merciless,

673
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: you know. But in a body Count album, really body

674
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: Count album is, it's really an iced t album done

675
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: the metal. So there's a one. There's always a song

676
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: about girls, probably sexy. There's always something that's totally fucking outrageous,

677
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: but there will be some knowledge in there, some games,

678
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: something that's we you need to hear and learn and understand.

679
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: So I think the legacy of body Count is not

680
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: just a metal band, but a metal band that always

681
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: talked about something to fix that people can get behind,

682
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: you know. I remember Raging and it's the machine opened

683
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: for us when they were first starting out and we're

684
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: on the same channel. You know. Um, the only difference

685
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: with body Count is I didn't want to be totally

686
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: political because I kin't think that can kind of get monotonous,

687
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: you know. So I call body count. I call body count.

688
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: Body Count is is grindhouse. It's a Tarantino movie. It's

689
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: so violent that it's funny. It's over the top grindhouse.

690
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: You know, when the guy goes to his car, he

691
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: doesn't grab a gun, he grabs a rocket launch here.

692
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: You know, So some of this stuff, if you don't

693
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: get the the humor and KKK, bitch, if you don't

694
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: get the humor, and Mama's Gotta Die to night where

695
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: I decapitate and dismember my mother with again suit car

696
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: harving knife that we only use for bullshit holidays like things,

697
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: if you don't get that dark humor, if it a

698
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: shift out of it. But the people that like it

699
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: get it, and they don't. They like the humor, they

700
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: like the edge. They get it. It's so funny that,

701
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, people watch slasher films horror movies, and you know,

702
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the directors get a carte blanche

703
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: for that, but it's just funny that people will let

704
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 1: that slip through the cracks a little bit more easily

705
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: than these sort of this sort of imagery and music,

706
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: and really, what's the difference. It's still there's entertaining, still

707
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: inject entertainment and humor and gore, and just like you said,

708
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: to the point where it's camp this sort of level

709
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: of of of of you know, of horror and imagery

710
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: that that you know, can just scare people, frankly, and

711
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't. I know, it's always kind

712
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: of struck me as odd that that people will make

713
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: that distinction when it's just another form of a fantasy

714
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: and fiction what it is. Jason, I think the problem

715
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: is I shift from that to dead series and people

716
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: don't Sometimes they just don't know when I'm being serious

717
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: or when I'm fucking with you, and I can't. I

718
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: can't change that. I mean, to me, that's part of

719
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: the fund is that, you know, I mean, I used

720
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: to always have people come over my house and there's

721
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: out there'll be doing interviews with me and I'll go, oh, well,

722
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, homelessness, and you know, we have the AIDS

723
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: epidemic and we have to go through these problems with poverty.

724
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: But I'm running late. I gotta get to a pit

725
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: bull fight, So could we hurry up and cut this

726
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: interview off? There? Like what the fund is, But I'm

727
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: not going to a pit bull fight. I'm just saying

728
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: this ship the funk with them body's head, and I

729
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: just Rick Rubin said Iced Tea Andrew Dice, Clay Eminem

730
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: have the ability to say the most wrong thing at

731
00:45:52,360 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: the most inopportune time, and it's wonderful, WONDERFULK Then I

732
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: could also bite you in the asp, you know, like

733
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: like it did you know when when cop Killer came

734
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: back to hut you well a year after it actually

735
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: came out, just because, like you said, they were trying

736
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: to find a target for election, yere, Well, you gotta

737
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: you got you gotta be prepared for it, you know.

738
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're outrageous and you're pushing the edge,

739
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: you never know when you're gonna really offend some fucking body,

740
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: you know. So, like Seymour Science said, it wasn't the

741
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: best title. It's kind of like, you know, you're really

742
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: asking for it. So I learned, I learned, but you know,

743
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: I still can't stop doing it. Like I don't, and

744
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: I don't think you have any regrets about it about

745
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: that song. No, not at all, not at all, because

746
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: like I said, I wasn't telling people you should go

747
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: kill cops. I don't hate cops. This was a song. See,

748
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: like I said, the song was made off psycho Killer

749
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: by Talking Ted. I was singing psycho Killer in the

750
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: rehearsal Hall and Dick my drummer rest and Pie said

751
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: we need a cop killer, so coming off the third

752
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: psycho Killer. So the psycho killer is a cop killer.

753
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: So it's it's not it's an insane person, you know.

754
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: But they're not mad at talking heads for singing psycho Killer,

755
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: which is a song about a psycho killer. So I

756
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: just targeted somebody with this crazy lunatic. I think what

757
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: scared people about it is because the cop killer kind

758
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: of became a hero like that. They people liked it.

759
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: And like I said, if I made a song called

760
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: school teacher killer, wife killer, fireman killer, nobody would what

761
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: the are you talking about? But the fact and also

762
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: Ernie said, it's not even really about cops. It's about authority.

763
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: People hate authority, They hate security guards, they hate anyone

764
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: that says no, So it's like funck authority right now,

765
00:47:53,640 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: especially when your brutal fuck you iced tea story as

766
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: a happy ending, I don't just mean that he wounded

767
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: up playing one of the most famous cops on TV,

768
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: the kind of irony Ice relishes. He also got to

769
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: reconnect with Spike and team up with him again, however,

770
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: this time not for anything dodgy or illegal. You can

771
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: read all about it in Nice, his new book, Split Decision.

772
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: As for cop Killer, when asked about its legacy, Body

773
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: Con guitarist Ernie c sums it up as a bunch

774
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: of angry black kids from South Central channeling their inner

775
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: Ramoans and just writing a plain spoken, no nonsense punk song.

776
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: But he also recognizes that it's more than that. It

777
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: defined a movement and defined cop Killer is part of

778
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: our legacy. It kept us around for this long. We

779
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: stood for something and we really said what we meant,

780
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 1: you know. And that's what's so important about that song.

781
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: We wrote the soundtrack to the Riot, and you can't

782
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: take that away. That song reflects that year. If you

783
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: put that gear in a capsule, that song would have

784
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: to be part of it. The tracks message feels more

785
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: relevant and resident than ever after the killing of George

786
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: Floyd and so many more victims of police brutality and

787
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: the unrest, riots, and racial recording that followed in two

788
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: Thou the song may not be as readily available as

789
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,959
Speaker 1: other protest anthems, but if you're frustrated enough, hurt enough,

790
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: enraged enough, you can find it, play it, and scream

791
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: along to that chorus. It exists, furious and unhinged, fearless

792
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: and unstoppable, the sound of something cracking open and waking up.

793
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: Where Were You in ninety two was a production of

794
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Noel Brown and

795
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: Jordan run Tog. The show is researched, written and hosted

796
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: by me Jason Lafier, with editing and sound design by

797
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,879
Speaker 1: Michael Alder June. If you like what you heard, please

798
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts for

799
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, check out the I heart Radio app,

800
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.