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Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Read What Now?

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Speaker 1: The history podcast that is not your history class with

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Speaker 1: me your host Katie Charlwood, history Harlotte and reader of books.

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Speaker 1: And be glad, delicious friends, that I'm actually recording this

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Speaker 1: podcast and not hiding any bathtub full of ice, you know,

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Speaker 1: because of heat reasons, not because of you know, people

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Speaker 1: stealing my liver reasons. So yeah, see, because there's a

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Speaker 1: heat wave here. Frankly, I am too pale and too

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Speaker 1: soft for this weather, right And yes, before you start

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Speaker 1: bumping your gums at me, and no other places are hotter, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I understand there are all these things, and things are

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Speaker 1: in place. We are implementing things to try and cool

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Speaker 1: the planet, right, not just my abode, but just getting

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Speaker 1: icy is so much more complicated than just getting ac

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Speaker 1: and also trying to put an ac in a small

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Speaker 1: house with no storage as is, Like I my house

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Speaker 1: is covered in books. I currently recorded my kitchen table

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Speaker 1: because there are boxes of lego in my kid's bedroom

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Speaker 1: because it needs to be done. There is so much

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Speaker 1: that needs to be done to make this house livable.

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Speaker 1: And and I have antique fundatil that is not mine,

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Speaker 1: but I can't get rid of and there is no

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Speaker 1: space for me to put an ac unit in, like

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not a thing. And yeah, yeah, apart

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Speaker 1: from the fact that it's tough enough to get one

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Speaker 1: in here as it is in temperatures that typically go

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Speaker 1: from chili to absolutely Baltic, it's not exactly an ideal solution.

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Speaker 1: I have, however, not just myself, three fans with mysters.

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Speaker 1: So I've got these weird chilpill fans, right, and that's

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Speaker 1: mainly for the kids, you know, so they can put

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Speaker 1: it in a room they're in. And also I've got

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Speaker 1: like a proper we desk fan thing which also it's

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Speaker 1: by Shark, also has the mister. So I'm hoping it's

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Speaker 1: going to be like decent because I'm trying to not

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Speaker 1: have like cold you're blown directly at my face because

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Speaker 1: probably that's really bad and as I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: hear from my voice, it still hasn't fully fully come back. Now, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty good that I pre ordered these fans

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Speaker 1: that were so like yay me partially organized. Also, a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine who was originally from Florida gave me

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Speaker 1: like really good advice during the last time way to

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Speaker 1: heat wave and so I'm I'm I'm prepared in some ways,

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Speaker 1: which is which is good, which is good. Now it's

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Speaker 1: also really nice to see how, like how the US

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Speaker 1: has really embraced the Tartan army. And as someone who

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Speaker 1: is half Irish half Scottish, right, this bodes well for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, great, I've got the accent you like, and

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Speaker 1: I wear a lot of Tartan. Now that's a little

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Speaker 1: bit handier for me. And there's this whole thing about

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Speaker 1: how they're not going to like touristay places, They're going

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Speaker 1: to like seven elevens and Costco and stuff. And I

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Speaker 1: love Costco. Okay, I love Costco. I got taken to

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Speaker 1: a Costco when I was over there the last time.

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Speaker 1: It was like, do you want to go to the Costco?

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Speaker 1: And I had said yes before the end of the sentence,

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Speaker 1: but the food court was down, so I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I said this last time. I may have said

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Speaker 1: this last time. But here's the thing, right, you take

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Speaker 1: me to the food court at Costco. I'm a cheap day.

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Speaker 1: I'm very easily pleased. Like people were telling me, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is what I get when I go to the

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Speaker 1: food court and Costco, and I'm like, I want to

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Speaker 1: go to the food court and Costco. It's like when

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Speaker 1: I went to a seven eleven. Like I went to

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Speaker 1: a seven eleven and I really wanted to get like

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Speaker 1: the weird roller hot dog things, but I didn't get

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Speaker 1: one of them. I just got the gulp and then

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Speaker 1: I got a douhle gulp just because it was like,

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Speaker 1: get the double gulp. It'd be really fun. And it's

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Speaker 1: bigger than my head. It was massive, it was so huge.

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Speaker 1: But like I'm I'm very excited because speaking of that US, right,

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Speaker 1: I will be announcing two dates soon. So keep your

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Speaker 1: eyes peeled and if you want me to come to

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Speaker 1: your city, then you make sure you fill in the

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Speaker 1: form and let me know to come to you. So

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Speaker 1: like there's a way link down below. So that's going

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Speaker 1: to be across Europe, the US, Canada, like all of that.

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Speaker 1: I don't have Australia plan yet because I haven't got

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Speaker 1: that far in my planning. But I know what you're thinking.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking, Katie, quite your jabble jab but in fact me,

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Speaker 1: in fact you I will. But first we've got to

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Speaker 1: get our source on our sources are Get No Mind,

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Speaker 1: The Life and Times of Marsha P. Johnson by Michael

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Speaker 1: Casino and Richard Morrison, The Death and Life of Marsha P.

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Speaker 1: Johnson by David France Street, Transvestite Action, Revolutionaries, Survival Revoked,

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Speaker 1: and Community by Leslie Feinberg Stonewall. The Riot that Sparked

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Speaker 1: the Gay Revolution by David Carter. I also got a

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Speaker 1: great delen information from Blackpast dot org, Biography dot com,

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Speaker 1: and the Smithsonian dot com. Are you sitting comfortably good? Then?

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Speaker 1: Leeds begin? It is the final episode of Pride Man.

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Speaker 1: Then how can I talk about Pride without the one,

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Speaker 1: the only Johnson. Marshall P. Johnson is an LGBTQ icon,

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Speaker 1: a person who lived, who struggled, and who fought for

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Speaker 1: the betterment of her community. She lived a life and

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Speaker 1: then her death well, her death is mysterious, but we'll

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Speaker 1: get to that. And before we do go on, I

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Speaker 1: want to give you a big, fat content warning. I

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Speaker 1: am going to be discussing sensitive issues assault, rape, suicide, murder.

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Speaker 1: So if that is something that you think you might

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Speaker 1: not be able to handle right now, it's probably best

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Speaker 1: you exit stage left. I mean, we'll see you next

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Speaker 1: time when I get to tell you all about the

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Speaker 1: history of America, and by America, I'm in the land

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Speaker 1: that is now currently the United States of America, because

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Speaker 1: what would be better to discuss on the two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fiftieth anniversary of those teen colonies doing their thing?

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Speaker 2: And some of you are gonna like it.

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Speaker 1: Some of you, well, I mean, if you listen to me,

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Speaker 1: you probably like, I'm gonna talk about it anyway, but

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Speaker 1: some people are not going to be that happy. I

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Speaker 1: don't think, oh dear, oh dear. But back to Marsha. Actually,

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Speaker 1: before going to Marsha sidebar, before we get into anything,

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Speaker 1: somebody left a comment like, oh, I can hear snoring

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Speaker 1: in the background. It's really distracting. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I record alone in a room by myself. Now it

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Speaker 1: is rare that sometimes, like the kids are in the room.

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Speaker 1: That being said, I did record the John Benet Ramsey

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Speaker 1: episode like many many years ago with my child sleeping

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Speaker 1: beside me. But it wasn't that episode they commented on,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, why are you hearing snoring in my house?

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Speaker 1: Who's snoring in my kitchen which is where I do

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Speaker 1: most of my recording currently due to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the house not being organized yet. Marcia Page Johnson, So

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Speaker 1: Marsha was born Malcolm Michaels Junior on the twenty fifth

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Speaker 1: of August nineteen forty five and Elizabeth New Jersey. Now

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. For the purpose of this episode, I

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Speaker 1: will be referring to Marcia as Marcia, and I will

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Speaker 1: be using she her pronouns, although probably I will revert

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Speaker 1: to the additional day here on there. And that is

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Speaker 1: just a habit. I tend to just call people they

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Speaker 1: at the best of times because it's one correct into

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Speaker 1: the easiest way for me not to miss gender. Someone

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Speaker 1: as my friend Jay. If you listen today Nightshade, Jay

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Speaker 1: is someone I never miss gender when I am talking

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Speaker 1: about them, but when I am talking directly to them,

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Speaker 1: every single time, it's like it just keeps happening. And

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Speaker 1: then Jay makes fun of me for it, and then

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Speaker 1: I feel terrible, and then they make fun of me

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Speaker 1: even more, which is great for them. They get great

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Speaker 1: enjoyment out of this, by the way. But the thing

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Speaker 1: about Marsha P. Johnson is that she would use Marcia

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Speaker 1: and Malcolm interchangeably. Marsha existed in a time in which

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Speaker 1: modern terminology was decades away from existing, and frankly, Marcia

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Speaker 1: at best could be described as gender non conforming. Many

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Speaker 1: of her friends would refer to Harvard's gender fluid because

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Speaker 1: sometimes she would be Marsia, sometimes she would be Malcolm.

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Speaker 1: They were a gay man, they were a drag queen,

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Speaker 1: a transvested out, they were all of these things. That is, again,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be using terminology as well that some of

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Speaker 1: you are gonna not be totally happy with, just because

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Speaker 1: it's going to come up and it's going to be

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Speaker 1: relevant to the story because it's going to be terminology

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Speaker 1: that Marcia her self used, and that's that's why it's

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Speaker 1: going to be in there. But Marcia was fluid. But

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Speaker 1: Marcia was known quite a lot mostly and as part

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Speaker 1: of the activism as Marcia P. Johnson, and so this

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Speaker 1: whole thing about being gender fluid, Like she would even

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Speaker 1: say that the PA and Marsha P. Johnson stood for

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Speaker 1: penal mind, which is what she would reply if anyone

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Speaker 1: asked her gender like it basically became her motto and

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Speaker 1: like even for a while before this, like Marsha was

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Speaker 1: the name that she chose for part of herself or however,

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Speaker 1: she wanted to express herself in this way, and like

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Speaker 1: at one point, like initially she called herself black Marcia,

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Speaker 1: which is like, I don't know. It's as if she

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Speaker 1: watched The Brady Bunch and she was like, that's Marcia,

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Speaker 1: but I'm Black Marcia. Think Marcia, Musha and Marsha. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know where she got Marsha from,

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Speaker 1: but that was the name she chose, and I love

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Speaker 1: that for her. But I am getting ahead of myself.

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Speaker 1: Marsha was born on the twenty fourth of August nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty five in Elizabeth, New Jersey, to Malcolm Michael Senior,

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Speaker 1: an assembly line worker for General Motives, and ALBERTA Claiborne,

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Speaker 1: a housekeeper. She was the fifth of seven children born

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Speaker 1: to the couple. Now I did try and find out

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Speaker 1: more about her siblings, but I could only find two

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Speaker 1: older brothers and older sister and one sister that I

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Speaker 1: couldn't find an age four. So we had Albert, Charles, Jeanie,

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Speaker 1: and Normy. Now Marcia had a conservative Christian upbringing, but

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Speaker 1: not the kind that you think, because this was one

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Speaker 1: that was focused more on tolerance and kindness. As you

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Speaker 1: will find out her dad Malcom. He had come to

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Speaker 1: New Jersey from Virginia as part of what was the

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Speaker 1: Second Migration. The Second Great Migration, which ran from nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty to nineteen seventy, was the mass relocation of over

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Speaker 1: five million African Americans from the rural and urban south

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Speaker 1: to the northeast, the Midwest, and the west. Was it

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Speaker 1: sparked by World War II defense jobs? And what was it?

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Speaker 1: You know? The desire to escape Jim Crow a little

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Speaker 1: from columby a little from column B. When Marshall was

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Speaker 1: three years old and two siblings later, Marsha's parents separated

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Speaker 1: and Malcolm relocated to London because that's where GM Morris

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Speaker 1: plant was. He continued to be a fixture of Marsha's life,

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Speaker 1: but Marsha stayed in Alberta with her mother. Now, when

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Speaker 1: she was around five years old, Marsha wore women's clothing

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Speaker 1: for the first time, much to her mother's chargron, but

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Speaker 1: she loved it. Now, yes, the thing, This is the

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Speaker 1: thing kids do anyway, though, isn't it? Like? They dress up,

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Speaker 1: They dress up, they paint their faces, they have slime

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Speaker 1: in their hair while finding dragons and a gluttle too too.

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Speaker 1: If no one forces them out of it. But for Marcia,

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Speaker 1: putting on women's clothing just felt right, and she would

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Speaker 1: continue to wear clothes women's clothes until the neighborhood boys

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Speaker 1: quote got fresh with her. How white do I sound?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm the whitest person in you, lover meet.

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Speaker 1: I'm a full blown Mao sapien. And but the boys,

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Speaker 1: well they put their hands on her. And when she

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Speaker 1: was twelve she was assaulted by a neighborhood boy he

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Speaker 1: was thirteen. Well, she was raped, and she didn't even

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Speaker 1: know what sex was at that age, and it took

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Speaker 1: away of what childhood.

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Speaker 2: She had left.

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Speaker 1: So for her, like she had no knowledge, People didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about it. It wasn't something that was discussed. And

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Speaker 1: like as far as she was concerned, she was married

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Speaker 1: to Jesus because they were religious, and there she was,

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Speaker 1: her childhood just gone. Speaking of growing up, Marsha was

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Speaker 1: raised in a wee house on Washington Avenue in Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: and Elizabeth was a segregated city, but it was also

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Speaker 1: an early hub for civil rights activism, so all of

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Speaker 1: this would be happening around her when she was young,

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Speaker 1: and she grew up there very religi attending the Mount

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Speaker 1: Tenmon African Methodist Episcopal Church. All of these churches have

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Speaker 1: really long names, like all the churches. Ever, it can't

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Speaker 1: just be like something church. It always has to be

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Speaker 1: the Church of the oppressive destructive thing or the Church

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Speaker 1: of Our Lady of Hope and Sorrow, like they're always

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Speaker 1: like really long names. Oh it's Our Lady of Perpetual

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Speaker 1: sadness like cool, like they always have really long names.

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Speaker 1: But the church that she attended, actually, this is really interesting,

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Speaker 1: is the oldest Black church in Elizabeth and Marcia. She

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Speaker 1: was deeply religious. She went to church every Sunday. She

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Speaker 1: performed on stage as part of the church's Christmas program.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, her family were the type of conservative Christians

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Speaker 1: that were more do unto others, show compassion and kindness

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the God will smite you for your existence.

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Speaker 1: Like her family, although they might not have upgraded with

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Speaker 1: her choices in life, were there for her throughout and

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Speaker 1: even and even when she came back home, like sometimes

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Speaker 1: she would bring people with her, people who needed help,

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Speaker 1: people who needed a warm meal and a family environment.

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Speaker 1: She would bring them back to New Jersey. She would

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Speaker 1: bring them back to Elizabeth, meet her family and then,

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Speaker 1: you know, bring them back to New York. Marcia went

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Speaker 1: to the Edison High School, which is now the Thomas A.

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Speaker 1: Edison Career and Technical Academy. She was a drummer in

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Speaker 1: the marching band. She was involved in parades and the like.

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Speaker 1: She was very much community focused from the get go,

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Speaker 1: and when she was seventeen, she enlisted in the US Navy.

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Speaker 1: Now she did begin tree recruit training in Chicago, but

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Speaker 1: was honorably discharged after she punched a man who tried

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Speaker 1: to sexually assault her. Good for her. Initially heading back

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Speaker 1: home to Elizabeth, she decided that she needed to get

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Speaker 1: the heck at a dodge. I moved to New York

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Speaker 1: City with a bag of clothes and fifteen dollars in

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Speaker 1: her pocket, which is wild. It's like nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 1: sixty three and you've got fifteen bucks to your name nowadays,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think i'd get you a meal in

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Speaker 1: New York, which incidentally is one of the places I

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Speaker 1: like to visit. It's on the list because I haven't

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Speaker 1: been there yet. And okay, sidebar, under another side bar. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know I we talk about again. I said earlier

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Speaker 1: about the seven to eleven's, the food court and all

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. I want to go to a bodega, Okay,

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Speaker 1: a proper bodega and one that has a cat. You know,

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Speaker 1: if the bodega has a cat, I know it's a

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Speaker 1: good one because it reminds me of the corner shops

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Speaker 1: in Scotland when I was growing up. Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a good corner shop if it had a cat,

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Speaker 1: you know. But back to Marcia. She gets to New

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Speaker 1: York and she's homeless. Sometimes she's lucky and she sleeps

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Speaker 1: in a movie theater, which was common back then. Like

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Speaker 1: even if you go back to like the forties, if

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Speaker 1: you remember from like the Black Dahly episodes, Elizabeth Short

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Speaker 1: did that too, Like if she was desperate for somewhere

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Speaker 1: to stay and she literally had no other option, she

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Speaker 1: would just go sleep in a movie theater. Now, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who would come to know Marcia would

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Speaker 1: struggle with how she managed to survive. At this time.

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Speaker 1: She was transient, she didn't have a job, and she

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Speaker 1: resulted to begging and sex work just to survive. And

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Speaker 1: it's a roundobout this time when she met eleven year

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Speaker 1: old Sylvia Rivero, who would go on to say that

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Speaker 1: Marcia saved her life. Sylvia was also transgender, and that

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Speaker 1: meant that she wasn't welcome in her grandmother's home anymore,

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Speaker 1: essentially orphaned. Sylvia's mother completed suicide and her father abandoned

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Speaker 1: the family well before that. And so when seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old Marcia held her hands open for her, she was

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Speaker 1: ready to be there, ready to be welcomed. And they

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Speaker 1: became each other's family, and Marcia was building this community,

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Speaker 1: her found family, spending a lot of time in Greenwich Village,

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Speaker 1: particularly Christopher Street. Now Greenwich Village was the gay spot

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Speaker 1: in New York where a lot of members of the

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ community would hang out spend time together. And so

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Speaker 1: even though this was, you know, a frightening time for Marsha,

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Speaker 1: She's a teenager in this big city. She's sleeping in

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Speaker 1: and picture houses, bath houses and eventually friends couches. She's

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Speaker 1: finding her people, and like obviously the ball scenes in existence,

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Speaker 1: and you've got voguing and all that jazz happening. And

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Speaker 1: Marcia didn't really take drags seriously because she couldn't afford to.

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Speaker 1: She performed, but she used what she had and she

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Speaker 1: had this really fun, whimsical sense of style. It wasn't expensive,

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Speaker 1: but it was so good and so her. Like she

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Speaker 1: got her glad rags on using dresses, high heels, robes, stockings, wigs,

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Speaker 1: and she would add like really interesting design elements like brooches,

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Speaker 1: artificial fruit, and of course the flower crowns. Like if

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Speaker 1: you see a picture of Marsha P. Johnson, you'll usually

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Speaker 1: see her in a flower crown, and sometimes he's like

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Speaker 1: big fabulous sunglasses. Like she would make these flower crowns

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Speaker 1: and seldy so she could make a little something. So

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Speaker 1: when she performed, it was her personality that really shone.

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Speaker 1: And Marcia was a kind person. But that's not to

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Speaker 1: say she was a pushover, because no, absolutely not. The

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Speaker 1: very first Pride was a protest. Stonewall was a riot.

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Speaker 1: Now this is something you may have had in passing,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. So let me slip into some context

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Speaker 1: for you. In the nineteen sixties, it was illegal to

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Speaker 1: be gay. A bunch of laws have been put in

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Speaker 1: place as a runoff from the McCarthy era, including that

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Speaker 1: people had to wear the clothes of the gender they

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Speaker 1: were assigned at buff If you want to feel refresher

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Speaker 1: or the Lavender Scare episode, which is I think just

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Speaker 1: two episodes before this one goes into McCarthyism and the

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Speaker 1: persecution of the LGBTQ community. Effectively, gay people weren't allowed

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Speaker 1: to exist, and they certainly weren't allowed to congregate, especially

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Speaker 1: in bars, and they certainly weren't allowed to drink in them.

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Speaker 1: You weren't allowed to dance with a member of the

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Speaker 1: same sex in public. Like, all of these things could

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Speaker 1: get you arrested and charged with sexual deviancy, and bars

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Speaker 1: that were seem to be promoting that kind of deviancy

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Speaker 1: for serving drinks to a gay person, you could be

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Speaker 1: fined or shut down, which is wild. Like imagine turning

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Speaker 1: to a patron at your bar and being like, I

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Speaker 1: end to pay a v before a poy the sharif SMBUCA. Like, imagine,

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00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: so cops were reading suspected gay bars all the time,

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Speaker 1: because apparently that was a far more important use of

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Speaker 1: her dime when not solving muddles and shits. They'd read

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Speaker 1: places like they even walk into places and be like,

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Speaker 1: that person's gay, you serve them a drink, You're getting

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Speaker 1: shut down. They're getting arrested. So on and so forth,

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Speaker 1: which brings us to the Mob. That is correct, the Mafia. See,

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Speaker 1: the Mafia owned a lot of businesses, including bars and clubs.

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Speaker 1: One such bar was the Stone Wall In, which was

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Speaker 1: connected to the Genovese crime family. Now, if you want

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Speaker 1: to hear about the best bisexual mob queen, I've got

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Speaker 1: a whole episode, way way back on Anna GENOVESEI, although

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Speaker 1: I do mispronounce her name through the entire episode. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Mafia realized that a whole community of people needed

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Speaker 1: a third space. Of course, they did not do this

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Speaker 1: out of the kindness of the hearts, but to the

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Speaker 1: fullness of their pockets. See, the Mob didn't discriminate. If

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Speaker 1: you could pay, you could stay. So the Mafia ran

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Speaker 1: a whole host of gay bars in New York. And

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Speaker 1: with the Mob running things, there's some extra protection. Usually.

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Speaker 1: The Stonehall In was a legal loophole of an establishment.

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Speaker 1: It was deemed to be a private club with a

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Speaker 1: guest book signed by members. And it wasn't a bar.

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Speaker 1: It was byob bring your own bottle like that was

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Speaker 1: the lophole. So as long as you.

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Speaker 2: Could afford to come in, you were welcome.

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Speaker 1: Like what's what's pretty good? Here, right, is that it's

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Speaker 1: like you need to bring your own booths and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: they'd serve booths right because they'd sell it. And it

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Speaker 1: was just like a very clever workaround. Now, what's interest

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Speaker 1: in here is that the community, the queer community itself

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Speaker 1: wasn't exactly the most accepting of spaces like you'd think.

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Speaker 1: But here's thing. Communities within themselves, they can become insular

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Speaker 1: and they can also be guilty of other ring people,

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Speaker 1: you know. And well, the thing about this is trans

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Speaker 1: women and drag queens were not really appreciated by the

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Speaker 1: LGB minus the tea community. Many members of the gay

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Speaker 1: community wanted to distance themselves from drag queens and the like.

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Speaker 1: Button Stonewall drag queens, gender fluid and other such non

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Speaker 1: conforming Quay people could go and be welcome, and the

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Speaker 1: mob well, they basically had a deal with the NYPD.

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Speaker 1: They'd get forewarned about a red happening and so they'd

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Speaker 1: send word out not to come that day to their customers,

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Speaker 1: all while just so happening to be closed on that

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Speaker 1: very day. Whoops a daisy, we weren't open for business.

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Speaker 1: There was no club meeting that day. Nothing underward happening here,

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Speaker 1: nud to nudge, wink wink. But on the twenty eighth

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Speaker 1: of June nineteen sixty nine, the NYPD showed up at

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Speaker 1: the stonewall and completely unannounced, no forewarning, no chance. The

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Speaker 1: cops stomped in and they start beating people, like they

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Speaker 1: arrest thirteen people, and they start doing genital checks. You

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Speaker 1: fucking heard me, genital checks, like, hey, we're gonna sexually

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00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: assault you. For the good of people. Female officers started

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Speaker 1: to take people into the bathroom to force them to

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Speaker 1: show them they're genitals, to prove what biological sex they are,

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Speaker 1: because if they were wearing the wrong clothing, that's an

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Speaker 1: arrestable charge. Right, if you're wearing trousers and you have

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Speaker 1: a vulva, right, Any transperson or trans women, sorry, any

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Speaker 1: trans women who didn't have a sex change, you didn't

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Speaker 1: have that surgery, arrested if they had a skirt on

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00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: if and I think it was technically you had to

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00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: have if like two or more items of your clothing

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00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: were not the gender as sound at birth, like if

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Speaker 1: they didn't match, like women wearing slacks, like arrested. Right,

399
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: they're like pulling upscuts and down trousers to see if

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00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: someone has a penis or a vulva. They're looking at vulvas,

401
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: They're not looking at vaginas, right, I Mean, that's like

402
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: you'd think it's it's all bad because it's violating, and

403
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: that's not even the right word for it, Like there's

404
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: a more extreme word, but I just don't have it

405
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: in my brain. And this was going far and people

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00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: were getting violently attacked by officers and one women, amazing,

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00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: fabulous butch, lesbian and drag king Stormy Delovey, she gets

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Speaker 1: beaten with a billy club and she's just fucking pissed.

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00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: She's screaming like do something. Are you gonna fucking do something?

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing about Stonewall, right, And that's we

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Speaker 1: don't actually know that much about it, Like there were

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00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: so many contradicting accounts of what happened that Like there's

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Speaker 1: a narrative that's been presented. Cops raid the place, people

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00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: were ressessed and a brick is thrown. Was it Martha P.

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Speaker 1: Johnson who threw the brick? Was it Sylvia Rivero? Was

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Speaker 1: there even a brick? Like we don't even know if

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Speaker 1: there really was a brick but we do know that

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00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: there was a punch, and the person who threw the

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00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: first punch was Stormy Delivey, And this just sets everyone off.

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Speaker 1: And according to some witnesses, Martha P. Johnson was there

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Speaker 1: and through a shot glass across the room proclaiming I've

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00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: got my civil rights, which is basically I like to

423
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: see that as Marsha's version of going fuck this for

424
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: a game of soldiers. Others say, by the way, that

425
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: Marcia was one of the first people to start offering

426
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: the cops a knuckle sandwich. But chaos ensues. Everyone is

427
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: fighting back and they are throwing shit at the cops

428
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: anything they can get their hands on, bottles, chairs, change

429
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: from their pockets, like everything they could, like guess, to

430
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: the point that the cops actually have to take cover

431
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: inside the stone wall In. But like this angry mob

432
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: is just getting bigger and louder, chat and stuff like

433
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: gay power, and in an act of desperation or stupidity,

434
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure which one it was, a police

435
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: officer sets the stone wall In on fire. They're inside

436
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: it and they've set it on fire. Right Incidentally, there

437
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: was also a report that Marcia P. Johnson showed up

438
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: like when she arrived at the Stonewall in it was

439
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: already a blaze. Luckily, the fire department was able to

440
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: extinguish the flames, save the building and everyone in it.

441
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the end of it. For the next

442
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: five days following Stonewall protests, marches, gatherings, they start popping up.

443
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: Thus the very first Pride March was born. The whole

444
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: gay community came together, an act of resistance, an act

445
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: of community, and this whole incident is one of the

446
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: reasons why there's a huge discourse as to why cops

447
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: don't be long at Pride. It's very much a whole thing.

448
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: So after the events at Stonewall, Marsha became very active

449
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: in the gay activists alignes. The GAA. Okay, I'm sorry,

450
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to sidebar you again here. So in

451
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: Ireland we have the GAA it's not this GA, it's

452
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: different GA. We got the gap, it's the gap. So

453
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: the GA, right, I'm trying to do what a candy

454
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: the accident, right, I have to soundly come from cabin.

455
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: So the GA is all over Ireland, so basically it's

456
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: inter county, but it also has each county, so you

457
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: would have like an All Ireland Final, and it would

458
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: have a team from like County Donegal, County Cork, Galway, Dublin,

459
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: et cetera. And each county has colors, so you'd have

460
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: county colors. And so if you're ever driving through Ireland

461
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: and you see flags that have two colors of them,

462
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: they're usually just two squarels that make up a rectangle.

463
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: If it's like blue and yellow or green and orange

464
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: or whatever, like that's the gas that's the GA flags, okay.

465
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: And so this would include things like Gaelic football, camogie hurling,

466
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: although for years I would call harling Hallley because that's

467
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: what I thought it was called. And I got made

468
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: fun of by lots of people from Limerick, of all places.

469
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, they were from County Clear. I wouldn't I

470
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't complain about Limerick people. They're okay. So me reading

471
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: the word gay here is very funny because I'm just like, ah,

472
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: sure they're they wherever. They're Harley and they're Schlutter. Schlutter

473
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 1: is the name of the ball that they use in Harley,

474
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: just so you know, and it's it actually goes all

475
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: the way back to like ancient Irish myth, and you know,

476
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: that's a story for another day. So Marcia is alwaso

477
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 1: involved in the Gay Liberation Front GLF, and then Marcia

478
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: and Sylvia had established Star House, So Star stood for

479
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: street Transvestites, Action Revolutionaries, and they housed transgender youths, kids

480
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: who were homeless and had nowhere else to go. And

481
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: they didn't just put a roof over their heads. They

482
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: gave them money, they fed them, they gave them clothes,

483
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: and most of all, they fought for the rights. And

484
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: the first Star House came about because well it was

485
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: a dilapidated building owned by Michael Umbels, a man who

486
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: was very well connected with the mob, especially the Gambino

487
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: crime family. So he had this piece of ship building

488
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: and Marsha and Sylvia basically made a deal if he

489
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: gave it to them for cheap, like cheap rent, then

490
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: they would do the place up. And but they did.

491
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: I was going to say him, by Jeeves. They did.

492
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was going to say, by Jeeves,

493
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: but they did. They renovated it and they got it

494
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: looking fucking fabulous. So they had this lovely house and

495
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: they were caring for these young people, and they called

496
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: Marsha the queen mother, and these young people that she

497
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: was caring for, she called them her children. Now here's

498
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: the thing, Marcia, Marcia's a humble queen, right, Marcia gives

499
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: full credit to Sylvia for setting up Star House, and

500
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: Marcia says that she's merely the vice president. But then

501
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: you've got Sylvia saying that Marcia really set up the

502
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: first her house when she helped her all those years before.

503
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: Now they end up being evicted by Humbles because they

504
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: were behind on rent. Listen, if you're written from the

505
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: mop okay and and you're like behind on rent, like

506
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: if you're not making rent, you are going to end

507
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: up back on the street. Unfortunately, there wasn't really a

508
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: lot of job opportunities for transgender women in the nineteen sixties,

509
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: or was gender nonconforming women. They had less options to

510
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: earn money to di let at least, which is why

511
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: they often engaged with sex work just to bring in

512
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: some money. Meanwhile, Marcia became entangled with Thomas Gerald Davis,

513
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: also known as Candy. So she met Candy a dance,

514
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: after which they regularly spent time at Starhouse together and

515
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: at some point they had this wedding ceremony like this

516
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: symbolic gesture of their love, and Candy gifted Marcia a

517
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: dog to symbolize the relationship. Now the dog was pregnant

518
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: and had little puppies which all became like part of Starhouse.

519
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: And this the thing is a friend, characterized the Pearl's

520
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: relationship as marked by love complexity and a deep desire

521
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: for self actualization. Now, this relationship was not without its faults.

522
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: Candy was a drug user and one day they tried

523
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: to rob an off Judy Kopp, who shot them in

524
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: the chest, killing them. Candy's death really affected Marcia and

525
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: it triggered a breakdown, resulting in her being admitted to

526
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: the Wards Island State Hospital. And it was here where

527
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: she had a revelation. And this was to just give

528
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: it her all to really push into activism, to ignore

529
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: the romantic set of life. And so she really did.

530
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: She started pushing for the New York City Gay Rights Bill,

531
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: which the GAA had introduced in September nineteen seventy. The

532
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: purpose of the bill was to provide protections against sexual

533
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: orientation discrimination. Marcia supported the bill, stating, and I quote,

534
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: I have no intention of getting a job. As long

535
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: as this country discriminates against homosexuals, there's only homosexuals, bisexuals

536
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: and try sexuals, Darling, and there are no straight people.

537
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: So the Starhouse was short lived, as was the next

538
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: Starhouse they set up, because well, they just couldn't afford

539
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: to keep running it. But Marcia Marcia at her best right,

540
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: and she was this beacon of light. She went out

541
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: of her way to care for others. She was so

542
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: considerate and generous and like if someone complimented her for anything,

543
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: she wore a scarf, a flower, crown or brooch, like

544
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: she would just give it to you. Oh you like it, honey,

545
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: here you go right literally, you know, when they say, oh,

546
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: they'll give you the shirt off their back, Marcia would okay.

547
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. She wanted to help transgender people

548
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: to have a voice, and she's at what was it.

549
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: There's this rally for gay rights in seventy three, and

550
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: things just nosedive because at this point, the dream of

551
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: a united gay liberation movement was splintering. Some organizations pushed

552
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: for gradual political change, where others believed that different paths

553
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: were required. In the midst of all these divisions, stood Marsha,

554
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: who spent years caring for those the movement too often overlooked.

555
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: When the annual Pride march arrived, Star, the organization Marcia

556
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: had helped build to support homeless, transgender and queer youth,

557
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: was meant to lead the parade. Instead, its members were

558
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: pushed aside, the banner disappeared from the rally stage, and

559
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: they were told there was no place for them at

560
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: the front of the movement they had helped shape and

561
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: Sylvia Rivero, she ends up on stage begging, pleading with

562
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: the entire community to help these youths, to help transgender people,

563
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: to give them a voice, to help them when she

564
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: gets bored off the fucking stage, and for Marcia, it

565
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: was another painful reminder that even within a fight for

566
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: a quality, some voices were considered easier to ignore than others.

567
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: But she didn't disappear into the crowd. She remained a

568
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: symbol of compassion, resilience, and hope, continuing to care for

569
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: her community even when recognition was slow to come. And

570
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: after Star dissolved, Marcia found a new home on the

571
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: stage of all Things Right. She joined the Angels of Light,

572
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: which is like this colorful theater group known for like bold,

573
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: joyful performances, and so she's it's just like spreading joy

574
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: and hope and just like putting positivity out in the

575
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: world and around. At the same time, she begins performing

576
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: with the Hot Peaches. Peaches, Ah, sorry, I have a

577
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: thing about peaches. And so the Hot Peaches are a

578
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: drag theater trip. And so they appear in like a

579
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: string of productions at the seventies, and she performs with

580
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 1: them four years and Marcia refused to let anyone decide

581
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 1: will she belonged. Even when she was pressured to choose

582
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: between the two theater groups, she carried on performing with both.

583
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: She even appeared in independent films and plays and wild.

584
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, she was photographed by Andy Warhol

585
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: for his Ladies and Gentlemen Portrait series. Life off stage

586
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: was unsurprisingly less glamorous. Friends from the Angels often helped

587
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: cover her living expenses, but Marcia struggled with periods of

588
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: per mental health and was repeatedly hospitalized. During one difficult episode,

589
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: she was arrested after reacting to a group of people

590
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: who had been harassing her. It's okay for people to

591
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: do things to you, but don't react to it like

592
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: that makes you the bad person, which is such fucking

593
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: shit take and is one that we keep pushing, like

594
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: take the high ground, No, I'll take the low ground.

595
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: I will dig a hole under you so deep it

596
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: will lead you to the pits of hades themselves. But

597
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: she has an episode and as a result, she's admitted

598
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: to Belleview Hospital, where she is treated with the antipsychotic

599
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: medication thorazine. That mmmmm mm hmm, this drug. It made

600
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: it painful for her to speak and perform, and sometimes

601
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: she would disappear from the theater scenes for months while

602
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: she recovered, and each time she came back, like a boomerangue,

603
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: she brought back the same kindness, humor, and this unmistakable

604
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: spirit that made her so fucking beloved and like not

605
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: just you know these health issues she's going through, like

606
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: her and a pal actually went to see this, you know,

607
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: the screen of her that Andy Warhol did at a

608
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: store on Christopher Street, and they kicked her out of

609
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: the store because no one recognized her. Now, those of

610
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: us who are interested in LGBTQ history are aware of

611
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: Marsha P. Johnson. We know enough about her we've at

612
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: least like we would at least recognize her image or

613
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: or no, just enough about her right like we know

614
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: we can skim it, you know, anyone who has an

615
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: interest would have some knowledge. But she wasn't really an

616
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: icon in her own time, like she wasn't held in

617
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: such high regard when she was alive, and by nineteen

618
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: seventy nine, Marcia was once again without a permanent home.

619
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: She often spent her nights in gay bathhouses or stayed

620
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: with friends whenever she could. Then, in the winter of

621
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, during one bitterly cold night, activist Randy Wicker

622
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: invited her to stay with him and Hoboken, New Jersey,

623
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: which started off as an act of kindness, but like

624
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: she moved in and never really left right, this became

625
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: this really long lasting friendship between the two of them,

626
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: and they would live together for the next twelve years.

627
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: Even with a roof over her head, life didn't get easy.

628
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: It remained difficult. Like many transgender women at the time,

629
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: Marsha relied on sex work to survive, and in nineteen

630
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: eighty she was shot in the back by a taxi

631
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: driver while working along New York's West Side Highway. Doctors

632
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: were unable to remove the bullet and it remained in

633
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: her body for the rest of her life, causing constant

634
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: pain and making it difficult for her to sleep. Now

635
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: I was seeing Vincent. They did try and remove the bullet.

636
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: They did everything they could, but they just couldn't. But

637
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: being shot wasn't the only time that she was on

638
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: the receiving end of violence while engaging in sex work,

639
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: like her joy the people that she was providing the

640
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: service too, like she would often get roughed up by them.

641
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: And this was a continuous hardship. But despite everything she

642
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: was going through, Marcia continued to build relationships and find

643
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: moments of joy like in the eighties. Like the early eighties,

644
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: she managed to have this this on off relationship with

645
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Joseph Wartanski. She traveled to places like she went to Europe,

646
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: she went to Puerto Rico and Los Angeles, and often

647
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: with help from Randy Right. And so she ends up

648
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: like going to like the Olympics, the eighty four Olympics,

649
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: and she's engaging in sex work, you know, just to

650
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: have enough money to get by. And she did that then.

651
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: But as the nineteen eighties began, a new crisis swept

652
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: through New York. At first, few people understood what it was,

653
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: the illness that will later become known as AIDS, which

654
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: spread rapidly through the LGBTQ plus community, taking friends, partners,

655
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 1: and chosen family one by one. Marsha couldn't just stand

656
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: by and watch. She spent hours, countless hours visiting people

657
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: in hospitals, sitting beside their beds, praying with them, lighting candles,

658
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: and making sure they knew they were not alone. When

659
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: a close friend became seriously ill, she cared for him

660
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: until his final days and later had held a vigil

661
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: in his memory. She also looked after David Homes, a

662
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: close friend living with AID, stepping in is his nurse

663
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: whenever she was needed, and alongside her caring work, Marcia

664
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: Marcia continued to speak out. After she was honored in

665
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighty five New York Pride, she helped organize

666
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: the first AIDS Walk in Los Angeles. She took part

667
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: in fundraising events back in New York and Now. Even

668
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: though she was never a formal member of act UP,

669
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: she joined protests and marches demanding better treatment, faster research,

670
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: and dignity for people living with AIDS. She watched people

671
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: around her whither and die, and the weight of so

672
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: much loss was impossible to escape. Watching friends die one

673
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: after another took a heavy toll on Marcia's own mental

674
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: health health, leading to more periods where she needed hospital care.

675
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: By the end of the decade, she'd also learned that

676
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: she was HIV positive herself. Even then, she refused to

677
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: stop showing up for others. At Pride in nineteen ninety

678
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: she marched carrying a banner honoring David Combs. Determined that

679
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: those loss of the epidemic would not be forgotten. Marsha P.

680
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: Johnson was HIV positive. Marsha P. Johnson had contracted AIDS,

681
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: but it would not be AIDS that caused the end

682
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: of her life. No, her death would be far more complicated.

683
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: Just days after the nineteen ninety four Pride celebrations, Marsha

684
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: quietly left Randy Wicker's apartment. It wasn't on you for

685
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: her to travel on a whipman. She had often spoken

686
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: about him in to La, so at first Wicker believed

687
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: that's exactly what she did. But as the days passed

688
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: and he had no word from her, concern began to

689
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: grow on the furth of July, Wicker went to the

690
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: police to report Marcia missing, and instead of taking the report,

691
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: officers turned him away, claiming incorrectly, the missing person report

692
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: could only be filed for people under the age of forty,

693
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: and Marcia was forty six. You know what, this is

694
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: a fucking heartbreaking response for someone who had spent so

695
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: much of her life caring for others. This feat dragging

696
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: by the NYPD, like it meant that valuable time was

697
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: lost before her disappearance was taken seriously, if it ever

698
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: was at all. On the sixth of July nineteen ninety four,

699
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: Marsha's body was discovered floating in the Hudson River, just

700
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: off the West Village Pier. From the get go, cops

701
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: worked under the assumption that Marcia completed suicide her friends. However,

702
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: they wanted a proper investigation, They wanted ansels and for

703
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: the police, well, Marcia was just west dead, the wrong

704
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: kind of victim. The thing is just when starts alone,

705
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: this should have been investigated like even nowadays, Like transgender

706
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: people experience violent crime at a rate of w eighty

707
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: six per thousand persons compared to what is it. It's

708
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: like almost like it's like twenty one to twenty two

709
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: per one thousand, since gender people, like, that's four times

710
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: as much. And that's in the US. Now back in

711
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: what was it? I think nineteen ninety two was the

712
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: worst year on record for anti LGBTQ violence, right, And

713
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: you would think, I mean, this is two years later.

714
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: That's not a long time for things to change, because

715
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: they didn't really and police they ended up reclassifying the

716
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: case from like drowning to undetermined cause. But the LGBTQ

717
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: community was furious that the police refused to investigate further

718
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: and that many press outlets just did not cover her death. Now,

719
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: Randy Wicker last saw Marsha on the second, but there

720
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: were sightings after this, like Benny Tony. Benny said that

721
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: eighteen Marsha arguing with a neighbor with prominent facial skill

722
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: was known as Michael, and this was like pretty soon

723
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: before her death. According to Tony, the man shouted home

724
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: a phobic stars at her. There was a confrontation, he

725
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 1: pushed her and he was like he like he was

726
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: like cruising for a bruise and like he was ready

727
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: for a fight. So Tony claims that later that day,

728
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: this same man Like he recognized him because of the

729
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: scars on his face, right, that he was in a

730
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: local bar boasting that he had killed a drag queen

731
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: named Marsha. Now, the day after Marshall's body was pulled

732
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: from the river, Tony Like reported this to the police.

733
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: He went straight to them thinking that this could be

734
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 1: an important lead. But according to Tony and Randy Wicker,

735
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: this never gets properly investigated. Now, there has been speculator

736
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: that Marcia's death may have involved members of the New

737
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: York Police Department, although no evidence has ever conclusively groven this.

738
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: These suspicions, well, they'll shape by the wider climate in

739
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: New York at the time. You've got the violence against

740
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: LGBTQ people reaching like alarming levels. Right. These attacks carried

741
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: out you know, by general members of the public and

742
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: in many cases by police officers. Like this was discussed

743
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 1: again in last week's episode. Now former Anti Violence Project

744
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: director Matt Foreman Right, he described the period like of

745
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: this time, saying that anti LGBT violence was at a

746
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: peak and that year they had thirteen hundred reports of

747
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: bias crime and eighteen percent of those were based on

748
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: violence perpetrated by police an unrelating wave of attacks. Now,

749
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: many of these crimes were never sold. Marsha herself had

750
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: dedicated much of her activism to confronting street violence and

751
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: seeking justice for Williams. Marcia was not afraid to throw

752
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: a punch. Now, according to Randy, she understood the dangers

753
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: that came with that, and shortly before her death she

754
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: reportedly warned him that investigating assaults involving corrupt plice officers

755
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: could get you muddled. Well, she didn't say corruptolice office.

756
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 1: She called them dirty cops. Right. Getting involved in dirty

757
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: cops can get you mudded. Now, there were reports of

758
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: Marsha being seen on the fourth of July and the fifth,

759
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: like really lay on the fifth, and she seemed scared.

760
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: There were always so eyewitness accounts of two men following

761
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: her to she made her way towards the direction of

762
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: the West Village Peels that night. Now Randy he thinks

763
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 1: he may have paid a part in Marshall's death because

764
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: he was trying to get the reins of this Christopher

765
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: Street Festival committee, which ran like a portion of events

766
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: a gay pride. Now Randy was sure someone was pocketing

767
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 1: funds like embezzling them from the committee. So he launched

768
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: an investigation with like a PI and everything, spending five

769
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: grand of his own money and allegedlyes the mafia had

770
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: their fingers in many pies, including this one, and so

771
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: they were profiting off of Pride. So he's investigating, and

772
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: so is Victoria Cruise. Now she finds a message that

773
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: was for Randy that he never got. And I'm paraphrasing

774
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: here a wee bit, but it basically says, tell Randy

775
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: what happened to Marcia will happen to him if he

776
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: doesn't leave Jacques Gerin and read alone. Now, these are

777
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: supposed to be members of some kind of criminal underground,

778
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's one of those threads that gets pulled

779
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: and kind of leads you in a direction. And Marcia's death,

780
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:36,479
Speaker 1: it's actually thanks to Victoria Cruz that Marcia's death cause

781
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 1: of death is changed, because initially it's like suicide by drowning,

782
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: but it gets changed to undetermined. In two thousand and two, now,

783
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: Marcia was found floating in the river. Her body was

784
00:56:55,719 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: removed and left on the sidewalk for several hours before

785
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: the coroner even arrived. In July in New York. Like hmmm,

786
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: Randy and other witnesses confirmed that there was a hole

787
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: in the back of Marsha's head and that she had

788
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: other injuries. But when the coroner does show up suicide

789
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: death by drowning. Now, an independent medical examiner reviewed the

790
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: coroner's report, clarifying that damage to Marsha's body, including missing

791
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: eyes and the hole in her head, could have occurred

792
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: after death as the police removed her from the river.

793
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing We're going to get into, like

794
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: the whole report in a second. But typically when I

795
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: hear of eyes be missing on a corpse, that's usually

796
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: like animal activity, you know. But that is something that

797
00:57:53,680 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: happens over days, not one night. Because she's found in

798
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: the Hudson River during the day and it was very

799
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: late at night that she was seen. So that's not

800
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: even twenty four hours that she's been in the water

801
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: and she's missing her eyes. No, So yeah, I'm not

802
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: entirely convinced. Okay. So the coroner stated that she was

803
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: breathing when she entered the river, which okay, does not

804
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: roll out being unconscious or being chased or pushed into

805
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 1: the water, and Victoria Cruz. She wants handles and show

806
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: she gets her hands or she tries to get her

807
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,919
Speaker 1: hands on the autopsy. Right, she tried to get hands

808
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: on the autopsy report. And this is where muspide sends

809
00:58:54,840 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: as o're tingling because it's missing, it's lost, and when

810
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: it's partial, like, it's hard going round and round in

811
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: circles trying to get this basic medical document regarding a

812
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: person's death, which should be simple, okay, And when she

813
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: does get it, it's partial, it's incomplete. But the science

814
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: were there discoloration of the body, which could be love

815
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: of mortus, you know, which is when the blood pulls,

816
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: which is when the body's in a certain position for

817
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: a period of time. The blood sort of like it's

818
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: not being pumped to the body, so it just kind

819
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: of polls in an area. So if a body is

820
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: lying face down for a long time, their face would

821
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: probably end up looking more blue, like as if they're bruised,

822
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: but it's not a bruise, it's just all the blood

823
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: pulling like in that area. Now, there's also several hemorrhages

824
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: in Marsha's brain. There's no mention of any signs of

825
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: assault on the body, So like the these are questions

826
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: we have to ask is what caused the hemorrhages? Was

827
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: it natural causes? Did she have a condition? Could this

828
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: have been caused by a seizure? Like what could have

829
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: caused that? Why wasn't this investigated? Medical examiner? Like hmm, now, okay,

830
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw my tinfoil hat in the ring heel

831
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: whether Marshall was chased into the river, if she was

832
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: intoxicated one way or the other, Like, I don't think

833
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: a full autopsy was performed, and I think it wasn't

834
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: performed because Marcia was HIV positive. Even if we roll

835
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: out foul play, even if we say this was a

836
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: tragic accident or this was something that Marcia did to

837
01:00:54,400 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: herself intentionally or unintentionally, I believe the medical examiner did

838
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: not do their job because there were eyewitness reports on

839
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: Marshall's body, and that information didn't we make it into

840
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: the report. Contemporary information by many different witnesses, information that

841
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: was taken at the time. But none of this is

842
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: in the report. Not even looks like etc. Or possible

843
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: contusions to ABC like, none of that there. And so

844
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: even if this was you know, an accident, if it

845
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: was a tragedy, will not get in full answers because

846
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: the medical examiner did not do the job properly. And

847
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: the fact that a body was left out in the

848
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: July sun for owls like, I mean, it's more, it's

849
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: more than disrespectful. It's so horrible. Now I understand that

850
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: there are many people who believe that Marcia ended her

851
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: own life. One of the arguments was that like she

852
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: was given away stuff before her death. Marcia gave away

853
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: stuff constantly, like she was that person you like it,

854
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: you have it, congratulations, good for you. But she had

855
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: been struggling with mental health issues. She had breakdowns, she struggled,

856
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: but she never had suicidal ideations. That was never part

857
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: of the plan. And I fully, like on board the

858
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: ship of it's either a tragic accident or it's a

859
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 1: hate crime muddle, like I'm in either of these two.

860
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: Like the thing about it is, apart from the fact

861
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't it just it wasn't investigated properly. If at

862
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: least they did their jobs and they followed the leads,

863
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: then we can at least go, well, you tried. And

864
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: also now I have been told many times that black

865
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: people just don't end their lives. It's not a thing

866
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: they do, especially in a public way. If it's something,

867
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: if it was going to happen, it was going to

868
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: happen in a very private way. Now there's always a

869
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: possibility that Marcia suffered some kind of episode, but again,

870
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: if you don't investigate it properly, it's always going to

871
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: be suspicious. And Marcia's death was suspicious, and she deserved

872
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: to have it investigated fully, properly and without bigotry and bias.

873
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: But Marcia was more than just her death. She was

874
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: her life. She was an advocate for the disenfranchised, a

875
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: mother to children, and a fucking pioneer. And her name

876
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: deserves respect. And she lived for joy, to share joy,

877
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: to give joy. When people say joy is resistance, it's

878
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: Marsha P. Johnson. Her joy was resistance. Marcia's passing was

879
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: mourned by everyone whose life she had touched. Three separate

880
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: funeral services were held in her honor. Randy Wicker organized

881
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: one in her Boken, New Jersey, her family held another

882
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: in her hometown of Elizabeth, and a third service took

883
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: place at the Church of the Village in New York City,

884
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: where friends, activists and members of the LGBTQ community gathered

885
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: to celebrate her life. A representative of Mayor David Dinkins

886
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: attended the New York service and read a message that

887
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: reflected on the weather that day. When it rains on

888
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 1: the day of a funeral, it is a testimony to

889
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: the life that person has lived. After the service, mourners

890
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: walked together to the Christopher Street Peals, the place where

891
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: Marsha's body had been found. There they held a quiet memorial,

892
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: placing flowers and lighting candles in the Hudson River as

893
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: they said the final goodbyes. And so ends the story

894
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: on the life of Marcia PA Johnson. I always wanted

895
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: to do Marsha P. Johnson justice. I always wanted to

896
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: show her as a fully formed person. I think she

897
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: deserves to have her story told in I wanted to

898
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: end Pride Pride Month talking about her, talking about her joy.

899
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: And often when we talk about history, there were so

900
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: many horrible things consistently happening, one after another consecutively in

901
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: a row, and there were moments and pockets of joy,

902
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: and Marsha P. Johnson was one in her life. She

903
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: was that pocket of joy, and she deserved better than

904
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: what she got. She deserved joy, and I think I

905
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: think we should all do something joyous from Marsha P.

906
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: Johnson and and I actually want to thank before I finish,

907
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: because it's it's Pride month. I want to thank every

908
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: person who emailed me and your messaged me about about

909
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: last week's episode about the AIDS crisis.

910
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: That I did, and a.

911
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

912
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: I got so many beautiful, lovely, wonderful emails and messages

913
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 2: and you all said some lovely, kind, generous things, and

914
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm glad that I'm making some kind of a difference.

915
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you appreciate what I'm doing, and I'm

916
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: hoping that I am giving the reverence.

917
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: And consideration and the truth of it all. I am

918
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: so lucky. I am so lucky. Life is hard, guys,

919
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: life is hard. I'm listen, I'm struggling. I always am

920
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: so I am as a person. But I am so

921
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: lucky that you listen to me. I am so thankful

922
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: that you listen to me. I'm so happy, and you

923
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 1: know that's my joy. Okay, I mean, my kids are faine,

924
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: They're nice, They're okay, I'm kidding. I love my kids.

925
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: They're amazing. But I get real joy knowing that I'm

926
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: doing something right, whether it's being your body doubling sort

927
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: of sound as you're doing your laundry, or I'm helping you.

928
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm being that constant you know, every Wednesday,

929
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: there she has you know, there she is talking to

930
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: me and here I am. I'm really glad to be

931
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: here for you and whatever capacity that is. And I

932
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: am I'm so fucking grateful, and I'm glad I could

933
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: do some kind of justice to the history that people

934
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: are trying to sweep onto the rug. And I won't

935
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: stop because that's who I am as a person. I'm yeah,

936
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm getting emotional, and so I decided that with the recommendations,

937
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go for joy from a recommendation list this

938
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: week things that make me happy. And these are my

939
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: recommendations to you for watching Greece too, Okay Greece to

940
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: you know what, the last third of the film it's

941
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: not that great, but the first two thirds of that

942
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 1: film gold mine, right, beautiful, fantastic. Frenchy disappears in the

943
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: middle of the movie for no reason. Love that movie, right,

944
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: Love that movie, really really obsessed with do it for

945
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 1: our country, which is like just such such a me problem.

946
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I let's bowl, let's bowl, let's rock and roll.

947
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: It's all in my head now. Greece too, it's a

948
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: it's a joy. It's a joy to watch Greece too.

949
01:10:49,000 --> 01:11:01,719
Speaker 1: For listening. I am a really big fan of for listening. Okay, Okay,

950
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: there's this song by Monty Python and it doesn't matter

951
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 1: anymore because the money doesn't exist because it's it's a

952
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 1: song called money, right, and it's all about all these

953
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,759
Speaker 1: different currencies and it's sang by I think it's written

954
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 1: and sang by Eric Idyl, and it's basically, I've got

955
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: ninety thousand pounds in my pajamas, I've got forty thousand

956
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: French ranks in my fridge. Now it's all the year

957
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: on now, so like it doesn't matter. But it's it's

958
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: this really silly song about money and it's like a

959
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: minute long, and I really love it. It's my it's

960
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: one of my favorite like songs. You know, I should

961
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: give you a second song that is also Joyce sale

962
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: I V by Bewitched. Okay, so I I have I

963
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: have a my metaphorical metaphorical, my metaphysical no, that's not right.

964
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 1: My imaginary version board Okay, my imaginary vision board has

965
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: me doing a live show in Canada on Saint Patrick's

966
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: Day wearing a Canadian tuxedo with a member of the

967
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: musical group nineties Sensation Bewitched. Okay, that's that's a plan

968
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: that us on the vision board because I think it

969
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: would be really funny. No, no, no other reason. And

970
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:38,759
Speaker 1: for reading, oh my goodness, for reading reading for joy?

971
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:43,560
Speaker 1: Actually what do I read for joy? No? Everything I

972
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 1: read for joy is kind of depressing. Actually, you know what,

973
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: This is really bad. Okay. So I don't know if

974
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: you know this, but in Ireland we have like a

975
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,520
Speaker 1: really good relationship with death, like a really strong relationship

976
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: with death. And I had this book years ago and

977
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: it's called Last Laughs and Epitaphs, and it's all about

978
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: the funny like last words of people and the funny

979
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 1: quotes on their graves. It's very funny. I promise you

980
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a great circle of life, very funny.

981
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 1: Now with the hat, thank you so much, and I

982
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: will see you next week when we start talking about

983
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:33,879
Speaker 1: Morrocan history. And thank you for listening. Arios au revoir

984
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 1: av them my friends. Oh, bye bye,