Speaker 1: Guess what will? What's that? So? I just want to
Speaker 1: warn you this might be the most controversial thing I
Speaker 1: ever say on this show. Here it is. I don't
Speaker 1: think iron Rand's that funny. Wait, that's your controversial statement.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anyone out there debating that. Well
Speaker 1: you think that. But iron Ran was such a polarizing figure,
Speaker 1: and the people who love her, they love her. I mean,
Speaker 1: she basically had groupies who treated everything she did like gospel.
Speaker 1: I was reading this oral history of her life and
Speaker 1: her secretary said that when Rand bought a new dining table,
Speaker 1: all her disciples noticed, and the next day a bunch
Speaker 1: of them went out and bought the same table for
Speaker 1: their homes because they were convinced it was the only
Speaker 1: real dining table. Wow. Well, she definitely had some devoted followers,
Speaker 1: but that's not what makes learning about her so hard.
Speaker 1: Either people hated her or they worshiped her, So you
Speaker 1: get quotes about how completely humorous she was, or on
Speaker 1: the other hand, you get quotes about how riotously funny
Speaker 1: she could be. But the examples of her being funny, well,
Speaker 1: they just sound like people have cute funny confusion. What
Speaker 1: does that mean? Like the examples of her being funny
Speaker 1: or like, someone saw her do a little dance when
Speaker 1: she was happy, and that's not funny, that's cute. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really hunted. And this is the only joke of
Speaker 1: her as I could find. Are you ready for it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think so because it is hilarious. So what's a
Speaker 1: four letter word ending in I T that embodies Eleanor
Speaker 1: Roosevelt and is found at the bottom of a bird cage?
Speaker 1: First of all, I kind of love that even her
Speaker 1: jokes are overwritten. But anyway, and whenever she started telling
Speaker 1: this joke, she started giggling and could barely get through it.
Speaker 1: But the answer is grit, which I guess to iron
Speaker 1: Rand was objectively funny. Like, the only really funny thing
Speaker 1: about that joke is that she hated Eleanor Roosevelt, but
Speaker 1: the punch line kind of praises her. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: see iron Ran getting a Netflix comedy special anytime soon.
Speaker 1: But she was charismatic and smart and she had a
Speaker 1: really fascinating life. But here's my question, why does she
Speaker 1: seem to be the most talked about novelist of our times?
Speaker 1: Even though she wrote her novels more than fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: and why is it that Washington can't get enough of her?
Speaker 1: I think it's time we find out. Hey there, podcast listeners,
Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my
Speaker 1: good friend Mangoes Hot Ticketer, Hey there, Mango, Hey, and
Speaker 1: this is Part Time Genius Now. Today we're asking the
Speaker 1: question how did Iron Rand become such a political rock star?
Speaker 1: Which is going to be fun, I know. And in
Speaker 1: addition to all things Rand will be joined by someone
Speaker 1: who may rival Rand and his ability to capture the
Speaker 1: hearts and minds of teenagers everywhere, the mega best selling
Speaker 1: author of The Fault in Our Stars and our good
Speaker 1: friend John Green. Now, do we have a really bad
Speaker 1: quiz for him to play today? Mango the worst? Good god?
Speaker 1: Who's playing our part time Genius quiz today? Well, and
Speaker 1: sticking with the Iron Rand theme, we've got a couple
Speaker 1: of architects competing for the big prize. And if you
Speaker 1: don't know why architects are appropriate for a show on RAN,
Speaker 1: well you'll understand soon. That's true. All right, Well, let's
Speaker 1: get to it. So. Biographer Jennifer Burns described Rand as
Speaker 1: the ultimate gateway drug to life on the right David Nolan,
Speaker 1: one of the founders of the Libertarian Party, commented that
Speaker 1: without Iron Ran, the libertarian movement would not exist, and
Speaker 1: one twentieth century philosopher said that in the entire history
Speaker 1: of philosophy, there were really only three philosophers worth paying
Speaker 1: close attention to. They were the three A's Mango. It
Speaker 1: was Aristotle, A Quintas and Iron Rand. In fact, that
Speaker 1: philosopher called Ran the most creative thinker alive. So tell
Speaker 1: me who said this, Well, it was Iron Ran, but
Speaker 1: she might have been a little bit biased, but still,
Speaker 1: I mean that's a pretty big endorsement. Yeah, she didn't
Speaker 1: just give out endorsements to anyone. She earned that endorsement.
Speaker 1: So in honor of that, we should recommend the only
Speaker 1: things worth listening to today, and that's the Three piecee
Speaker 1: P Yeah, Prince Paula Abduel and part Time Wow. That's
Speaker 1: part of the playlist, Mango. Actually, do you know what
Speaker 1: Iron Rand's quote reminds me of? What's that? So there's
Speaker 1: great a season Sorry where he talks about walking into
Speaker 1: Kanye west house and Kanye is in his living room
Speaker 1: just nodding his head to his own music and when
Speaker 1: he sees his ease. He just points out the speaker
Speaker 1: and says, these pets are dope. Like of all the
Speaker 1: music out there, Kanye only really needs Kanye. He's that genius.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm Rand had a similar opinion
Speaker 1: of herself in this book, A Hundred Voices and Oral
Speaker 1: History of an Rand. Her friends say she'd often read
Speaker 1: and reread her own books, like she'd pick up one
Speaker 1: of her books to find a quote, and then she
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to pull herself away because she found
Speaker 1: out her own writing was that captivating. But you just
Speaker 1: have to keep reading the novel and Atlas shrugged his laws,
Speaker 1: it take the average person thirty six hours to read it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think Iron Rand would be quick to remind
Speaker 1: you that she was no average person. That's definitely true.
Speaker 1: And to be clear, just like Kanye, she wasn't the
Speaker 1: only one captivated by her own work. It's kind of
Speaker 1: surprising that whenever there's a big list of the most
Speaker 1: influential books in history where readers, not critics are weighing in,
Speaker 1: she tops the list. In the nineties, the Library of
Speaker 1: Congress and the Book of the Month Club teamed up
Speaker 1: to ask readers what book had influenced them the most.
Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, number one on the list was The Bible,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's hard to vote against God's writing.
Speaker 1: But in second place at Las Shrugged. Yeah, but reader
Speaker 1: polls are notoriously the worst. I mean, when I was
Speaker 1: in high school, Delaware Today had a reader poll of
Speaker 1: the best Mexican restaurants in the state, and Taco Bell
Speaker 1: came in second place. I don't know what's your point is,
Speaker 1: Taco Bell is delicious, but but that book isn't the
Speaker 1: only one iron fans are passionate about. When the Modern
Speaker 1: Library did a survey asking readers to vote on the
Speaker 1: twentieth centuries best works of fiction, at Las Shrug came
Speaker 1: in first. Again, The fountain Head was right behind it
Speaker 1: in second, Anthem was seventh, and We the Living was
Speaker 1: in eighth. Those are all Rand works. This is crazy,
Speaker 1: but most scholars don't agree, right, I mean, none of
Speaker 1: those four Iron Rand books showed up on the Modern
Speaker 1: Library survey of critics, not a single one. You're right,
Speaker 1: I mean there's a clear divide between the world of
Speaker 1: critics and Iron Rand's massive fan base, which might be wise.
Speaker 1: She hated critics so much. Scholars and critics in general
Speaker 1: never took her that seriously, right, But after seeing how
Speaker 1: many people she had influenced and how passionate her fans are,
Speaker 1: I realized that ignoring her is clearly a mistake. Like
Speaker 1: millions of people intensely identified with their stories, and I've
Speaker 1: always just assumed it was purely like bankers and politicians
Speaker 1: and the band Rush that wasn'to her. But she also
Speaker 1: influenced like Billy Jean King and even Mendez. You might
Speaker 1: not expect. I mean, Rand's goal from the start was
Speaker 1: to create these page turning, action adventure novels layered with
Speaker 1: mystery and passion that spread her philosophy, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of amazing that she actually did that. Like, for whatever
Speaker 1: you think about her, she got a whole world of
Speaker 1: people to rethink their values and also maybe believe in themselves. Sure,
Speaker 1: I mean, her whole notion was to sell people on objectivism,
Speaker 1: which is built on the idea that man is a
Speaker 1: heroic being. And Ran identified man's own happiness as the
Speaker 1: moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his
Speaker 1: noblest activity and reason as his only absolute which sounds
Speaker 1: lovely on the surface, right, You're like, who can't get
Speaker 1: behind working hard and achieving and being happy and living rationally.
Speaker 1: That's what she truly believed. But she also thought she
Speaker 1: was only writing to reach a few extraordinary people in
Speaker 1: every generation. And when you play Rand's philosophy out, she's
Speaker 1: advocating that selfish behavior is the most moral behavior and
Speaker 1: that altruism is inherently evil. It's a little like the
Speaker 1: anti Mr Rogers, right, it's not everyone special, but more
Speaker 1: only a few of you are special. And also, instead
Speaker 1: of sharing, why don't you hoard your toys? Exactly? Actually,
Speaker 1: there's this great quote from Christopher Hitchens that I scribbled down.
Speaker 1: He said, I've always found that quaint and rather touching,
Speaker 1: that there's a movement in the US that thinks Americans
Speaker 1: are not yet selfish enough. I love that. But back
Speaker 1: to Rand, So she rejected altruism. She was completely against
Speaker 1: any government overreach, whether that meant curbing your rights or
Speaker 1: redistributing wealth into social services. So you can also see
Speaker 1: why TEA Party members and conservatives started regularly quoting her
Speaker 1: work after the financial meltdown. And to clear Rand did
Speaker 1: not like to be described as a conservative or a libertarian.
Speaker 1: She was a strident atheist who preferred to be called
Speaker 1: a radical for capitalism, which is why she wore all
Speaker 1: those radical jewelry pieces shaped like giant dollar signs, right right,
Speaker 1: I think that's I just love how big and how
Speaker 1: gold they were. I think those were from the Scrooge
Speaker 1: make Duck collections. So but it's clear that iron Rand
Speaker 1: loved capitalism and extraordinary people. So who are some of
Speaker 1: the geniuses she was talking about? Well, in vague terms,
Speaker 1: she admired great artists and captains of industry, people who
Speaker 1: produced versus the moochers and the takers. So, according to
Speaker 1: her friend Susan Ludell, for Iron, Aristotle and Victor Hugo
Speaker 1: were basically the tops. Then she also loved Greta Garbo
Speaker 1: and Muhammad Ali Michelangelo and the chess player Bobby Fisher.
Speaker 1: I mean, those are all talented people. But her favorite
Speaker 1: contemporary hero, and this comes from multiple sources, Morris the Cat.
Speaker 1: This is the finnicky cat from those Nine Lives Cat
Speaker 1: Food Dads. Yeah, apparently she couldn't get enough of those commercials,
Speaker 1: and not just because it featured a big, fluffy tabby,
Speaker 1: but because she loved Morris's distinct form of aggressive personality.
Speaker 1: Of course, she loved that he didn't stand for nonsense
Speaker 1: and that he had strong opinions, and she liked his face.
Speaker 1: I mean, some might say that's reading a lot into
Speaker 1: a TV cat, but she loved him so much that
Speaker 1: she went out and bought the novelty biographies about him. Right,
Speaker 1: of course, I ran as a cat person. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's not going to like something as needy as a dog. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she did have a number of cats. But you
Speaker 1: know what's funny is that as cold as Iron's philosophy
Speaker 1: can sound, there are a lot of accounts of her
Speaker 1: being downright nice, like I mean, she's very much lived
Speaker 1: by her principles. She didn't like to be contradicted, she
Speaker 1: didn't give to charity, she was radically direct with people.
Speaker 1: But in the accounts I read, I don't think she
Speaker 1: was intentionally mean very often. Well that may be, but
Speaker 1: it's definitely fun to read how famous people react to
Speaker 1: her work. In fact, maybe we should dedicate an episode
Speaker 1: to this alone. All right, maybe not. But people were
Speaker 1: not always very kind so to Flannery O'Connor, for example,
Speaker 1: she wrote in a letter to a friend that the
Speaker 1: fiction of Iron Rand is as low as you can get.
Speaker 1: Regarding fiction, I hope you picked it up off the
Speaker 1: floor of the subway and through it and the nearest
Speaker 1: garbage tail out. Flannery, I actually kind of like saying, ouch, Lanery,
Speaker 1: that might be a new thing for me. And Gourvidel
Speaker 1: once described Rand's view of the world is nearly perfect
Speaker 1: and its immorality Ouch Flannery. See it works there too,
Speaker 1: But then you hear the stories of people who are
Speaker 1: just obsessed, like Ted Turner once paid for nearly two
Speaker 1: d and fifty billboards that simply asked who is John Galt? Again?
Speaker 1: If that reference doesn't make much sense to you now,
Speaker 1: it will after we dive into Rand's works. But before
Speaker 1: we do that, we should probably give a little bit
Speaker 1: of background on Rand's early years, because they do help
Speaker 1: us understand where her philosophy came from. So, Mango, what
Speaker 1: do you say, I give you hundred and eighty four
Speaker 1: seconds to talk about rans early life. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that's going to cover it. Well, I'm setting my four
Speaker 1: second clock anyway, so you're ready, go okay. So, in
Speaker 1: some ways it's not hard to see how some of
Speaker 1: Rand's views developed. Rand was born Alisa Rosenbaum in in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Speaker 1: Her situation was pretty comfortable. Her dad was a pharmacist
Speaker 1: and owned his own shop. Her mother came from an
Speaker 1: important family, and her sisters even had a Belgian governess,
Speaker 1: and the girls went to an elite school. The Rosenbombs
Speaker 1: took grand vacations across the continent, which is not to
Speaker 1: say that there weren't hardships. I mean, Russia was deeply
Speaker 1: anti Semitic and Jews were often persecuted, but the family
Speaker 1: was so well connected, and for the most part, the
Speaker 1: girls had a sheltered upbringing. So that all changed in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen when her father's pharmacy was taken over by
Speaker 1: the Soviets during the Bolshevik Revolution. I mean, to watch
Speaker 1: a government take over your family's business and to simultaneously
Speaker 1: witness people preached the importance of the state over individual rights,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that changed you forever well. And
Speaker 1: I think her family really struggled after that, right definitely.
Speaker 1: So they moved into an apartment with no electricity. Rand
Speaker 1: reportedly told friends that at one point they were even
Speaker 1: wrapping their feet in newspaper because they couldn't afford shoes,
Speaker 1: there was no running water. It was a super different time. Well,
Speaker 1: I suppose one good thing that came about for her
Speaker 1: was the ability to attend college. So after the Russian Revolution,
Speaker 1: universities opened up to women, and Ran was one of
Speaker 1: the first female students at Petrograd State University, that's right,
Speaker 1: which is where she studied history and discovered one of
Speaker 1: her biggest influences, the works of Aristotle. But she didn't
Speaker 1: stay in Petersburg for long, right, that's right. She had
Speaker 1: the opportunity to come to the US when she was
Speaker 1: twenty to visit relatives, and after stops in New York
Speaker 1: City in Chicago, she eventually found her way to Hollywood. Well,
Speaker 1: and it turns out she was a huge movie lover
Speaker 1: that she'd been seeing as many movies as she could
Speaker 1: before she even got to the US. And then when
Speaker 1: she was in Chicago, she had a relative who owned
Speaker 1: a movie theater letter see films for free. So it's
Speaker 1: no big surprise that she'd want to work in the
Speaker 1: film industry. But she didn't exactly thrive there. No, she didn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I struggled in Hollywood in her early years.
Speaker 1: But I want to pause for a second, to talk
Speaker 1: about her mom. Now, didn't she model some of her
Speaker 1: petty and superficial characters in her novels after her? I
Speaker 1: mean that that's kind of a classic literary bird, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. So his mom was pretty hard on her,
Speaker 1: and rand was super smart, the head of her class.
Speaker 1: She wrote provocative essays in school and knew early that
Speaker 1: she wanted to be a writer. From like age eight
Speaker 1: or something, she'd internalized the story of Catherine the Great,
Speaker 1: this woman who's overlooked and underestimated because she was homely
Speaker 1: but clearly smart and savvy enough to grab power. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I knew from a young age she was going
Speaker 1: to be great. I mean, she absolutely believed that exactly.
Speaker 1: But she wasn't athletic or popular. And Anna Rosenbaum wanted
Speaker 1: her daughter to succeed socially, so she nagged a lot,
Speaker 1: and she could be pretty mean. Like once, when I'm
Speaker 1: was four or five, she and her sister had strewn
Speaker 1: toys all over the room, and Anna was irritated, so
Speaker 1: she told her daughters to pick a few of their
Speaker 1: favorite toys, give her the rest, and then one year
Speaker 1: later they'd be able to trade them in. So i'n
Speaker 1: sister kept a few of her favorites and gave the
Speaker 1: rest to her mom. Meanwhile, I'm being a thinker, decided
Speaker 1: to delay her gratification. She thought about how happy she'd
Speaker 1: be a year from now to get her favorite toys back,
Speaker 1: so she kept her least favorite ones, and then a
Speaker 1: year later, when she asked her mom about the trade,
Speaker 1: her mom laughed and said she'd given them all to
Speaker 1: an orphan. Oh no, that's pretty rough, I know. So
Speaker 1: it's this memory that's a little unfair, probably because most
Speaker 1: people have a similar gripe with their parents. But for
Speaker 1: iron Rand, who throughout her life found it really hard
Speaker 1: to forgive even the smallest of slights against her, she
Speaker 1: really held onto that grudge. And of course the story
Speaker 1: is all about the unfairness of having your possession snatched
Speaker 1: and given away to the poor. So I'm no shrink,
Speaker 1: but you see how that shows up in her work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to see how she was against altruism
Speaker 1: when not only was her family's pharmacy being given to
Speaker 1: other people, but her stuffed animals were too. I mean,
Speaker 1: what's funny is that as much as she hated her mom,
Speaker 1: her mom also played a big part in her ideology,
Speaker 1: Like she wrote things to I'm like every man is
Speaker 1: an architect of his own future, and every person is
Speaker 1: the maker of her own happiness. And that sounded very
Speaker 1: much like Randy and philosophy, I know. And so I
Speaker 1: talks about everything like it just sprang from her own mind,
Speaker 1: maybe with an assist from Aristotle or Nietzsche. For example,
Speaker 1: she talks about how Russia was just a circumstance she
Speaker 1: was born too, but how she would have developed the
Speaker 1: exact same ideas in a vacuum because they're all perfectly
Speaker 1: rational and reasonable, which I find hard to believe. What
Speaker 1: that they're all reasonable. No, that she would have come
Speaker 1: up with the same principles if she'd been born into
Speaker 1: a different circumstance, or that she could have come up
Speaker 1: with that philosophy without her mom's influence. But the other
Speaker 1: thing that's interesting and also a little vexing, is how
Speaker 1: rand believes she never got any help along the way.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have to say, that's one thing that
Speaker 1: really bothers me about her story too, Like her personal
Speaker 1: mythology plays nicely into her ideology, but she got so
Speaker 1: much help along the way, and her mom as much
Speaker 1: as she nagged did a ton for She ordered foreign
Speaker 1: magazines for as a child to stoke her interest in writing.
Speaker 1: To get her into a film program, her mother joined
Speaker 1: a communist society and shed all her elitist ties. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been admitted had her mom that made that sacrifice.
Speaker 1: It was I's mother who had figured out a way
Speaker 1: to get her daughter out of Russia to study film
Speaker 1: in the US. She sold the last of her jewelry
Speaker 1: to fund Iron's trip to the States. Even when I'm
Speaker 1: was struggling in Hollywood, she and E'n's dad were saving
Speaker 1: and sending twenty five dollars a month to E'n from Russia,
Speaker 1: which is crazy, just so she could eat and cover
Speaker 1: her expenses. And they were already scraping just to get by. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And in the U. S Sens extended family made all
Speaker 1: sorts of incredible sacrifices for her to like They fed
Speaker 1: her and lent her quite a bit of money that
Speaker 1: she never even paid back apparently, And they made the
Speaker 1: introduction for her to Cecil de Mills Studio in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: which is how she got the job in California in
Speaker 1: the first place. And they allowed her to type at night,
Speaker 1: even though it disrupted the whole family's sleep, like they
Speaker 1: did so much for her, and she was always just
Speaker 1: aloof and kind of ignored them when she became famous,
Speaker 1: although she did send them some free copies of her books,
Speaker 1: and she said she didn't believe in charity. All right,
Speaker 1: speaking of books, how about we take a break for
Speaker 1: a little literature quiz. So our guest today is a
Speaker 1: very good friend and one of the most brilliant people
Speaker 1: man guest and I know. But more importantly, he's also
Speaker 1: a very good due. He was one of the very
Speaker 1: first contributors to Mental Flaws magazine when Mangesh and I
Speaker 1: started it back in two thousand one. But not long
Speaker 1: after that he informed us he'd be leaving Mental Flaws
Speaker 1: to go write a novel. We just laughed and laughed
Speaker 1: and said, we'll see you back in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: But holy crap if he didn't write several great novels,
Speaker 1: though it did take him a whole decade before he
Speaker 1: hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list
Speaker 1: with a publication of The Fault in Our Stars. A
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Time magazine named in one of
Speaker 1: the one most influential people in the world. But even
Speaker 1: after all this success, he's still mostly a good dude.
Speaker 1: So John, welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks great to
Speaker 1: be here. It's always fun to hang out with you guys.
Speaker 1: So we joke about you taking a decade to hit
Speaker 1: number one on the list. But the life of a
Speaker 1: struggling writer is something You've talked a good bit about,
Speaker 1: and I'm curious just to hear from you how your
Speaker 1: perspective has changed on what it means to be a
Speaker 1: successful writer in today's publishing world. Yeah. I mean, I
Speaker 1: to be honest, like, when my first book came out
Speaker 1: in two thousand five, it only sold like two thousand
Speaker 1: copies in its first year, but I thought that was
Speaker 1: very successful find I mean, you know, I've always had
Speaker 1: a day job, and I always figured I would have
Speaker 1: a day job, so I wasn't thinking that I was
Speaker 1: ever going to make a living from writing books. And uh,
Speaker 1: the surprise development that I guess I have been able
Speaker 1: to have been wonderful. But honestly, I'm still going to
Speaker 1: the office every morning to work on crash course and
Speaker 1: the video stuff that we do, and I like having
Speaker 1: a day job, and I wouldn't want to give it up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it seems like you do spend a fair amount
Speaker 1: of time encouraging other writers and talking to other writers
Speaker 1: about that, whether it's a struggle or whatever it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do want to be encouraging to young writers, especially
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's like an unrealistic gold published
Speaker 1: a novel. Like for many years I worked at this
Speaker 1: magazine called book List, which was the review journal the
Speaker 1: Marithon Library Association, and book Lists comes out every two weeks,
Speaker 1: and every two weeks it reviews four or five novels
Speaker 1: or books at least, And so there's lots of people
Speaker 1: writing books, and there's no reason, um that that any
Speaker 1: of us can't be one of them. Obviously, you love reading,
Speaker 1: Like what writers have you fallen in love with recently?
Speaker 1: And who should we be reading right now? The best
Speaker 1: book I've read, the best young adult book I've read
Speaker 1: in ages is uh The Hate You Give by Angie Thomas.
Speaker 1: I just think it's phenomenal. I think it's I think
Speaker 1: it's going to be remembered as a classic in the
Speaker 1: way that we talked about The Outsiders Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 1: I think it's a very special book. It just came
Speaker 1: out a couple of months ago, so you still you
Speaker 1: can still get on the bandwagon early. Um, and then
Speaker 1: I really uh, I loved Coulson Whitehead's most recent novel,
Speaker 1: Underground Railroad. I've been a fan of his since I
Speaker 1: was working at book List. Um. I was given one
Speaker 1: of his books many many years ago to review, and
Speaker 1: uh have followed his career. But I think Underground Railroad
Speaker 1: is this his best book? It's just occasionally like the
Speaker 1: book that wins the National Book Award and a few
Speaker 1: Surprise and all the other awards, it turns out to
Speaker 1: just be that good. And I think Underground Railroad is
Speaker 1: is that book? Yeah, that's the only book of his
Speaker 1: that I've read, but it was it was terrific. Yeah.
Speaker 1: John henry Day, his first novel is also amazing. Well,
Speaker 1: as you know, this is part of the Iron Rand episode,
Speaker 1: and we decided for our guest today, we wanted to
Speaker 1: find the only author that we know rivals Rand and
Speaker 1: popularity with teenagers. So congratulations for that one. That's a
Speaker 1: dubious honor to be put in the same same category
Speaker 1: as as the Sountain Head. I mean, I know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you guys are trying to present a fairly unbiased
Speaker 1: case here, but I have to confess that I am
Speaker 1: not unbiased when it comes to uh to iron Rand,
Speaker 1: I am not a fan. We might have done this
Speaker 1: to you on purpose, So yeah, I know I I
Speaker 1: kind of guess. All right, Well, mano, what quiz is
Speaker 1: John playing with us today? So he's playing a game
Speaker 1: called real celebrity children's book or something we just made up.
Speaker 1: I don't want to brag in advance, but I know
Speaker 1: a lot of real celebrity children's books. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna feel like I'm gonna do okay here, awesome,
Speaker 1: all right, So we'll read you a title and a celebrity,
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is tell us if
Speaker 1: it's a real book for children or something we made up.
Speaker 1: So you don't need an example, but we kind of
Speaker 1: wanted to give you anyway. So if we said how
Speaker 1: Stinky the Cheese lost and then found his lost sneaker
Speaker 1: by Hank Green, you would say we made it up.
Speaker 1: That is not a real children's book. Well done. I'm
Speaker 1: glad you know your brother well enough. So okay, here
Speaker 1: we go. Question number one. It's a Big World, Little
Speaker 1: Pig by Christi Yamaguchi. Oh, I mean that's plausible, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's made up. Oh, it's true. Actually,
Speaker 1: it'sn't about an adorable, persistent, dreaming big pig. All right,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. You may have to pick that
Speaker 1: one up. Okay. Question number two, henri Leto and the
Speaker 1: Magical Imfanat a Machine by Justice Samuel Alito. That's not possible.
Speaker 1: You're correct, and you would be correct. Alright, Thank god,
Speaker 1: thank god. Okay. Question number three, cheetzu kaka poo poo
Speaker 1: My kind of Dog by Joy Behart. I mean I
Speaker 1: did I wish that I didn't know enough about Joy
Speaker 1: Behart to know that she's a huge dawn person. But
Speaker 1: I think I think that's probably true. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: It actually is a true book. All right, So what
Speaker 1: are we now? We are two out of three so far.
Speaker 1: All right, we got two more. Okay, Little t Learns
Speaker 1: to Share by Terrell Owens's book. Alright, Number five, Love
Speaker 1: is a five letter word by Dan Quail. Oh, I
Speaker 1: mean do whispers in this podcast, remember dan QUI? I
Speaker 1: don't know, but it was just too good not to
Speaker 1: include it. It's not true, it's it. No, it's undifors
Speaker 1: not true, Thank god. You know, it would be great
Speaker 1: if dan Quail had embraced his inability to spell the
Speaker 1: word potato and like just owned it and turned it
Speaker 1: into love is a five letter word, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: it could be a great picture book. But I don't
Speaker 1: I doubt that he has a self awareness for that.
Speaker 1: But while we're on the topic of dan Quail, before
Speaker 1: I let you guys go, ban Queen is in Indiana, guy,
Speaker 1: and he will very likely when he passes away, be
Speaker 1: buried in Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis where I live. Uh.
Speaker 1: And Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis is home to
Speaker 1: more dead US vice presidents who never became president than
Speaker 1: any other single location on earth. WHOA, that's a great fact.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I'm glad we set him up for that one.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, thanks for the setup. That's actually the
Speaker 1: only piece of trivia I know I looked out with
Speaker 1: that one. Well done, all right, So, so how did
Speaker 1: John do today? He got four out of five, which
Speaker 1: is pretty amazing, and that wins in the top prize,
Speaker 1: which is our continued admiration. Congratulations John, John, thanks so much.
Speaker 1: For being with us. We can't wait to see what's next.
Speaker 1: Thanks un, it's always good to talk to you guys.
Speaker 1: Looking forward to podcast now. I know we already did
Speaker 1: our guess what thing at the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: but guess what else? Mango, what else? Will? So did
Speaker 1: you know Iron Ran voted for f d R. How
Speaker 1: can that be? I actually read that Iron and her
Speaker 1: friend would take in New York Times with her to
Speaker 1: the voting booth and vote against every recommendation to paper made,
Speaker 1: which is true. But supposedly I'm voted for FDR because
Speaker 1: he planned in prohibition. And what's weirder is that she
Speaker 1: didn't even drink that much. But still, it's hard to
Speaker 1: imagine her supporting someone so focused on the government's duty
Speaker 1: to help citizens. I mean, this is the man who
Speaker 1: set up Social Security, the SEC, the SEC, F D
Speaker 1: I C T V A F A A. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure I'm just listing letters at this point. Do you
Speaker 1: definitely know a lot of letters? But let's get back
Speaker 1: on track, So tell me about Rand's writing and her
Speaker 1: Hollywood career. Sure, so, as we mentioned, Iron wasn't an
Speaker 1: immediate hit in Hollywood, but she was hungry to make
Speaker 1: a name for herself. She starts out with this letter
Speaker 1: of introduction from her relatives to Cecil B. Demills Studio,
Speaker 1: and she spends that into something amazing. So in her
Speaker 1: story she talks about the luck she had bumping into
Speaker 1: the mill on her first few days on the set.
Speaker 1: But according to her friends, she was way more calculated
Speaker 1: than that. It's much more likely she stalked him than
Speaker 1: charmed him with her ambition. As you can guess, Iron
Speaker 1: was big on creating your own luck. But she basically
Speaker 1: talked her way into a better role as an extra
Speaker 1: on the set of King of Kings, which is where
Speaker 1: she met her future husband, Frank, and she landed a
Speaker 1: steady job in wardrobe. Before too long, she was supplying
Speaker 1: scenes to writing departments and working on rewrites. She just
Speaker 1: kept hustling her way up. So I know one of
Speaker 1: these gigs was supposedly reviewing movie scripts. And have you
Speaker 1: read Mallory or Berg's Iron Rand reviews children's movies at
Speaker 1: Mallory Hartberg from from the Toast. Yeah, she's she's such
Speaker 1: as this and she did this Human Peace for The
Speaker 1: New Yorker. It's so good. I have to read you.
Speaker 1: My two favorite entries. I can't wait. So this is
Speaker 1: Iron Rand supposedly reviewing Old Yeller. So a farm animal
Speaker 1: ceases to be useful and is disposed of humanely, A
Speaker 1: valuable lesson for children. Four stars, And this is Iron
Speaker 1: Rand on Muffets Take Manhattan. This movie was a disappointment.
Speaker 1: The Muppets don't take Manhattan. They merely visited No stars.
Speaker 1: That's pretty rough, I know, but I cut you off.
Speaker 1: You were talking about Rand's Hollywood hustle. Yes, she definitely
Speaker 1: struggled for a while, and then about six years after
Speaker 1: she gets the Hollywood she does start having some success.
Speaker 1: I mean, she sells a screenplay, which is astounding considering
Speaker 1: the fact that she doesn't even speak English fluently yet.
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, her language is still rough around
Speaker 1: the edges. But she's a workhorse and she's studying the craft.
Speaker 1: And then she writes a play called The Night of
Speaker 1: January sixteenth. It's a courtroom drama where the audience gets
Speaker 1: pulled into the jury. It has a similar plot to
Speaker 1: another play of the time, but it has a clever gimmick.
Speaker 1: Depending on how the audience votes, the play's ending changes.
Speaker 1: Oh kind of like I choose your own adventure. Uh
Speaker 1: the movie Clue, which originally had four endings. Oh yeah, Clue.
Speaker 1: So actually, by the way, did you know that movie
Speaker 1: totally bombed at the box office because theaters only showed
Speaker 1: one of the three endings each time. It was a
Speaker 1: total crapshoot which ending you'd see, and so people were
Speaker 1: just confused why they saw different versions of the movie.
Speaker 1: So this classpt probably worked much better on VHD. I
Speaker 1: guess so, I guess so, But but where were we? So?
Speaker 1: So I is starting to play with philosophy. She saw
Speaker 1: the plays endings as a touring litmus test for how
Speaker 1: a jury thinks. But the more amazing thing about The
Speaker 1: Night of January six is that it shed a ton
Speaker 1: of royalties and was really smart about it. The play
Speaker 1: only had one setting, so it was easy for summerstock
Speaker 1: companies to put it on. And even though I'm soured
Speaker 1: quickly on FDR and completely hated everything, he's good for
Speaker 1: his works. Progress administration brought the play the hundreds of
Speaker 1: local theaters around the country and paid for her performances.
Speaker 1: According to author Anna conoverllor Ine was pocketing up to
Speaker 1: twelve hundred dollars a week. In the depression era when
Speaker 1: American incomes were usually around fifteen hundred dollars a year
Speaker 1: and between then the screenplay she sold that gave her
Speaker 1: space to write well, definitely. Her first novel, We the Living,
Speaker 1: was published in nineteen thirty six, a year after the
Speaker 1: Night of Hits Broadway. This is also the novel that
Speaker 1: Ran later acknowledged was as close to autobiographical as anything
Speaker 1: she would write. Sure, it's pretty common for writer's first
Speaker 1: books to be pretty biographical, and Eines didn't follow the
Speaker 1: details of her younger years exactly, but there were definitely similarities.
Speaker 1: This was really Rand's first big public argument against communism.
Speaker 1: So instead of a pharmacy, the protagonist own a textile
Speaker 1: factory that gets taken away. It's a familiar theme, the
Speaker 1: struggle of the individual against the state. Right, so this
Speaker 1: is the theme she keeps building on in The fountain Head.
Speaker 1: Guess how old she was when The fountain Head was published? Well,
Speaker 1: all right, so this was nineteen forty three, so she
Speaker 1: was thirty eight. Wait are you thinking thinking what I'm thinking? Yep,
Speaker 1: we'll both be thirty eight after your birthday next month.
Speaker 1: So we should write a fountain Head sequel. Okay, I
Speaker 1: can't believe you were thinking the exact same thing I
Speaker 1: was thinking. Yeah, instead of a fountain Head part two,
Speaker 1: I think we should call it the mountain Head. All right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is sounding worse tier then, and I have to
Speaker 1: be honest. So Rand always said that in The fountain Head,
Speaker 1: her goal was to show the vision of the ideal man,
Speaker 1: and she felt she accomplished this with the novel's main character,
Speaker 1: Howard Rourke, exactly works and architect who's a fierce individualist
Speaker 1: and refuses to sell out to compromise his vision. So
Speaker 1: in the novel we see all the struggles for work
Speaker 1: faces because he's unwilling to simply conform and fall in
Speaker 1: line with what the establishment thinks architecture should be. You
Speaker 1: see others in the novel taking advantage of his talents,
Speaker 1: but as Rand's ideal man, he shouns what she dubs
Speaker 1: collectivism and stands firm against the second handers, the societal
Speaker 1: parasites who live off of others talents. Yeah, Iron Rand
Speaker 1: definitely saw the world in black and white, but it's
Speaker 1: not surprising that the theme resonated with so many people,
Speaker 1: and of course it launched Rand into another level popularity
Speaker 1: and success. Yeah. One thing that's funny about The fountain
Speaker 1: Head is that I'm kept a list of the twelve
Speaker 1: publishers that rejected that book. It's in her archives in
Speaker 1: a big part of her personal narrative. But what I
Speaker 1: didn't realize until reading Heller's book was that of the twelve,
Speaker 1: she turned down the advance from one for being too low.
Speaker 1: Then she had a contract with one of them and
Speaker 1: mr big deadlines that they dropped her, and for another
Speaker 1: three or four of them, she only submitted a super
Speaker 1: rough outline instead of full chapters, so they didn't really
Speaker 1: understand the book, Like, if you're going to hold a
Speaker 1: grudge for being rejected, all of those details matter. Well,
Speaker 1: they didn't to RM. Even after it was written, publishers
Speaker 1: weren't exactly sure what to do with The fountain Head,
Speaker 1: but the book grew from word of mouth and it
Speaker 1: quickly brought Rand the financial security she needed to be
Speaker 1: able to think about other projects, so whether that was
Speaker 1: screenplays or nonfiction, or just being a more vocal activist
Speaker 1: for the anti communist and free market movements. So why
Speaker 1: do you think she decided or should be an architect.
Speaker 1: I think it's because I'm viewed architecture is being this
Speaker 1: perfect blend of art, business and science, and decided that
Speaker 1: her ideal man should look like this for the book.
Speaker 1: Well that makes sense, and it's interesting that our philosophy
Speaker 1: is pro art because I don't always think about Rand's
Speaker 1: fans thinking that way. But back to the fountain Head,
Speaker 1: it's curious how many architects would go around claiming Rourke
Speaker 1: was patterned on them, like Richard Neutra, Raphael Soriano. There
Speaker 1: at least four or five prominent people who just assumed
Speaker 1: it was them. Well, it's especially funny because while we
Speaker 1: know iron Ran considered Frank Lloyd Right the true Rourke,
Speaker 1: when she actually met Right, she was turned off by
Speaker 1: the fact that he surrounded himself with yes men who
Speaker 1: worshiped his work, which you know, it's exactly what iron
Speaker 1: Ran did. I mean, her groupies had to take loyalty tests,
Speaker 1: they survived show trials in her living room just to
Speaker 1: keep hanging with her loyalty tests. That's amazing, But it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Right also kind of a socialist. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: she kind of ignored that too, So so we talked
Speaker 1: about individualism and collectivism, but we haven't yet talked about
Speaker 1: the is m Rand is best known for, and that's objectivism.
Speaker 1: And that's because we haven't really talked about the mother
Speaker 1: of all Iron Ran books, Atlas Shrugged, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: my dad used to pronounce shrug it like rugged. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like a personal joke, but I
Speaker 1: realized in college I was the only person in the
Speaker 1: world I was pronouncing the book that way. And it
Speaker 1: makes no sense because obviously it's shrugged. Like they'll get
Speaker 1: me started on how you pronounced calcium calcium, but I
Speaker 1: think you were talking about how the idea for Atlas
Speaker 1: Shrugged emerged, right. So, as popular as The fountain Head was,
Speaker 1: Iron was upset that readers and reviewers weren't grasping her philosophy.
Speaker 1: And it's true that like each character in that book
Speaker 1: has one specific philosophy and acts in that manner, and
Speaker 1: she assumed it was all super clear to the reader.
Speaker 1: But one of her friends told her, why don't you
Speaker 1: just write a book to set people straight? And as
Speaker 1: Iron started boxing saying she wasn't an altruist and it
Speaker 1: wasn't her responsibility to clarify philosophy for this dumb audience,
Speaker 1: like At the end of that conversation, she joked, maybe
Speaker 1: I'll just go on strike, And that's where the idea
Speaker 1: for Atlas came from, the question of what would happen
Speaker 1: if all the world's most did people went on strike
Speaker 1: at the same time. Well, but again, that project wasn't
Speaker 1: exactly a quick turnaround, and she published Alice a decade
Speaker 1: and a half after The fountain Head in nineteen fifty seven. Also,
Speaker 1: did you know she refused to be edited, like she
Speaker 1: famously told Bennett Surf of Random House, would you cut
Speaker 1: the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have shaved a
Speaker 1: few paragraphs off the Bible and still had to make sense,
Speaker 1: So she demanded no one touched her perfect text. Would
Speaker 1: you cut the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have
Speaker 1: shaved a few paragraphs off the Bible and still had
Speaker 1: to make sense. So um. Also, when she demanded no
Speaker 1: one touched her perfect text, surf ast her to reduce
Speaker 1: her royalties by eight cents a book to pay for
Speaker 1: all that extra paper, which she actually did. I mean,
Speaker 1: she was really committed to writing the Bible of objectivism,
Speaker 1: and for someone who preached selfishness, she didn't mind taking
Speaker 1: a pay cut to get her work out anyway. Atlas
Speaker 1: Shrugged is where we meet the character John Galt, with
Speaker 1: opening line who is John Galt? Uh? This book sets
Speaker 1: up this mystery where and I'm sorry if we're spoiled
Speaker 1: in this for you listeners, but honestly, you've had like
Speaker 1: sixty years to read this thing. But it sets up
Speaker 1: this mystery where John Galt has been leading a strike
Speaker 1: of all those rand seas as the true contributors in society, scientists, artists,
Speaker 1: inventors and so on, and in a dystopian us, the
Speaker 1: phrase who is John Galt has become this meaningless phrase
Speaker 1: of exasperation that's used widely. I really can't believe you
Speaker 1: just spoiled John Gold. So maybe we should spoil some
Speaker 1: other classics while we're at it, so you get all
Speaker 1: our hate mail at the same time. So I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to tell you, listeners, the Grinch doesn't just steal Christmas.
Speaker 1: He ends up giving it back, and also Asslan from
Speaker 1: the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Well, he's Jesus.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that sound we heard was forty people
Speaker 1: simultaneously slamming their Dr. Seuss books down in disgust. But
Speaker 1: Atlas Shrug's main intention is to show how without the
Speaker 1: contributions of our most talented individuals, society and the economy
Speaker 1: would collapse. Yeah, the idea of the strike was something
Speaker 1: Rand talked about frequently, even outside of Atlas Shrug. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like half of what you talked about after
Speaker 1: writing Outlas Shrugged was Atlas Shrug. At dinner parties, her
Speaker 1: band of groupies would debate who would be the ideal
Speaker 1: cast for an Atlas movie, And it's kind of the
Speaker 1: way you might talk about baseball history and what your
Speaker 1: fantasy baseball lineup would be. Well, the funny thing about
Speaker 1: John Galt is that he's almost like those Chip Favery
Speaker 1: andre the Giant stickers, or that Kilroy was here graffiti.
Speaker 1: Once it gets pointed out to you, you start noticing
Speaker 1: it everywhere. It's the same with those who is John
Speaker 1: Galt signs. You see them at protests and tea party events,
Speaker 1: and once you notice, you can't stop seeing them. So Anyway,
Speaker 1: despite Inns previous common about not wanting to be altruistic
Speaker 1: and have to explain her philosophies after Atlas Drug, that's
Speaker 1: sort of what she did. She began writing more and
Speaker 1: more nonfiction and focusing on communicating her philosophy on how
Speaker 1: we should all exist in society. As she saw it,
Speaker 1: the only real goal of government was to protect individual rights.
Speaker 1: There was no moral obligation to look after other people's needs. Sure,
Speaker 1: and on the flip side, she also believed that no
Speaker 1: one was responsible for your needs. Of course, it's important
Speaker 1: to keep in my and the Atlas Shrug was written
Speaker 1: in a time when socialism was growing, I mean, the
Speaker 1: Cold War was strong, and lots of places were also
Speaker 1: veering towards socialist democracies, and Rand was warning about a
Speaker 1: world where most countries were on the verge of collapse
Speaker 1: because of government overreach. Well knowing that, it's not hard
Speaker 1: to see why certain conservatives and libertarians have jumped on
Speaker 1: the Iron Rand train, but she hated libertarians like She
Speaker 1: once called libertarians publicity seekers who rushed into politics prematurely
Speaker 1: because they allegedly want to educate people through a political campaign,
Speaker 1: which can't be done. And she also accused them of
Speaker 1: plagiarizing her ideas, saying it's a bad sign for an
Speaker 1: allegedly pro capitalist party to start stealing ideas. She really
Speaker 1: used the word allegedly, loved allegedly so iron Ran didn't
Speaker 1: really hold back her feelings. It's clear and she was
Speaker 1: ridiculously sure of her ideas. In fact, this is part
Speaker 1: of what made her such a controversial person. Like she
Speaker 1: made a lot of divisive statements. Yeah, like what do
Speaker 1: you want to give a few examples. Yeah. In her
Speaker 1: address to the graduating class at West Point in the seventies,
Speaker 1: she said of of Americans, quote, they had no right
Speaker 1: to a country merely because they were born here and
Speaker 1: then acted like savages. The white man did not conquer
Speaker 1: this country. Well, you gave a commencement address last year,
Speaker 1: did you use a similar quote? You know? I decided
Speaker 1: to leave that one out now. She later defended her
Speaker 1: point on that by basically saying whenever a superior technology
Speaker 1: meets an inferior one, that society has the right to prevail.
Speaker 1: She was insistent that it wasn't a racist argument, just
Speaker 1: a problematic one. I'd say. Well, and Ran also hated
Speaker 1: the feminist label. She even referred to herself as a
Speaker 1: male chauvinist. I mean, that's not hard to figure out
Speaker 1: from her books. And in addition, there's no other way
Speaker 1: to put this, but a lot of her sex scenes
Speaker 1: are kind of rape, like it's often a man throwing
Speaker 1: a woman down who doesn't want to have sex but
Speaker 1: actually does. And she ended up having to write letters
Speaker 1: to her male fans clarifying that she was not suggesting
Speaker 1: rape as a practical romantic strategy and that the scenes
Speaker 1: she was writing about were actually consensual. And maybe that's
Speaker 1: why she hasn't read on more college campuses. And also
Speaker 1: plenty if people have taken issue with her comments about
Speaker 1: women and the thinking that a woman shouldn't aspire to
Speaker 1: be president, even though she claimed not to believe that
Speaker 1: women were any less intelligent or capable. Yeah, but in
Speaker 1: many ways the things that have made conservatives distanced themselves
Speaker 1: from her are just the fact that she's stridently pro choice,
Speaker 1: like she borrowed money from an abortion pretty early in
Speaker 1: her marriage, and she was also a proud atheist. There's
Speaker 1: a funny threat in her biography where housekeeper Eloise is
Speaker 1: constantly trying to convert her, and even on her deathbed,
Speaker 1: she's letting Eloise know there is no God. You think
Speaker 1: would be very difficult for a social conservative to get
Speaker 1: behind Rand because she was not vague in her positions
Speaker 1: on these things. But I have to say, this is
Speaker 1: starting to feel a little heavy. So when we cut
Speaker 1: the tension with a little quiz, let's do it all right, mangoes.
Speaker 1: So who do we have on the line today. We've
Speaker 1: got two architects online. We've got Marshal from Birmingham, Alabama,
Speaker 1: and Rob's calling in from New York City. All right,
Speaker 1: so let's meet each of them. First. We have Marshall,
Speaker 1: who started a company called Designed Initiative in Birmingham. Marshall,
Speaker 1: welcome to part time genius. Glad to be here, excited
Speaker 1: about the opportunity. All right. So I know that we're
Speaker 1: here to talk about you guys as architects. But I
Speaker 1: did notice in some of the notes that you sent
Speaker 1: us that you joined the Marines at the age of
Speaker 1: seventeen after seeing the movie Aliens. Is this true? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, I'm sure. Well I don't know either you
Speaker 1: saw this movie, but there were these colonial marines that
Speaker 1: had these really wicked guns that made this awesome sound.
Speaker 1: And I saw the movie and thought, that's what I
Speaker 1: want to do. In addition to that, I was kind
Speaker 1: of tired of being told what to do but my father,
Speaker 1: so I thought looked better way to kind of express
Speaker 1: my independence and joining the Marine Corps. Then then to
Speaker 1: go be told what to do by the Marines. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I served for about four years, and uh, I
Speaker 1: got a little tired of being told what to do,
Speaker 1: and so the first thing I decided to do once
Speaker 1: I got out was getting married. I'm married a strong,
Speaker 1: wild Latino woman. Well done. All right, So Rob, tell
Speaker 1: us how you were inspired by the movie Aliens. I
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever seen it. Excellent. So Rob is
Speaker 1: currently working at the Googenheim. I'm actually curious what what
Speaker 1: would you say is the best part of working at
Speaker 1: the Googgenheim, Rob, I think the biggest perk is you
Speaker 1: can go in there on a Thursday when nobody else
Speaker 1: is in the entire museum and and get a pretty
Speaker 1: impressive space to yourself. Oh that's awesome. Yeah, I'm jealous
Speaker 1: of that. So all right, well it is time to
Speaker 1: play one of our really really dumb games. And so, Mango,
Speaker 1: what game are we playing today? We're playing a game
Speaker 1: called the stage Name Game. All right, that's right. Because
Speaker 1: iron RAN's actual name was Alyssa Rosenbaum, we thought we'd
Speaker 1: play a game involving some celebrity original names. So, for example,
Speaker 1: if we said Desiderio Albert Arnez the third was married
Speaker 1: and starred in a sitcom with Lucille Ball, you would
Speaker 1: say Desi Arnez got it. And because you're playing against
Speaker 1: each other and we don't have buzzers, we're going to
Speaker 1: give you each an animal sound buzzing with. Okay, that's right,
Speaker 1: all right, Rob, do you want to me out for us?
Speaker 1: I can do that, I guess, okay. And Marshall, why
Speaker 1: don't you be our dog? So how about a wolf
Speaker 1: wolf from you for your answers? That sound good? Perfect,
Speaker 1: because you know marines are devil dogs. So I've got
Speaker 1: a really good bark. Yes, that's what we We had
Speaker 1: that in mind when we decided to do this. So alright,
Speaker 1: so we've got five questions here. You want to jump in.
Speaker 1: You will name the celebrity that we are giving a
Speaker 1: hint about. So Question number one. Stevelyn Judkins is a
Speaker 1: singer known for several hit songs including Signed, Sealed, Delivered
Speaker 1: and I Just Called to say I Love you. What's
Speaker 1: his real name? Yeah? All right, Rob, I heard him out.
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder, good job, okay. Question number two Ginger Rogers
Speaker 1: dancing partner Frederick Osterlitz took another name. What was it? Wow,
Speaker 1: Rob's I think he's just excited to me out. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think I heard you say it? Can you say
Speaker 1: it again? There? Right? Okay? Good job too to nothing.
Speaker 1: Here we go. Question number three. This pop singer with
Speaker 1: hits I kissed a girl and Roar changed her name
Speaker 1: from Kate Hudson. Oh, let me read the question that
Speaker 1: I'll let you answer their Marshall changed her name from
Speaker 1: Kate Hudson because she didn't want to be confused with
Speaker 1: actress Kate Hudson. Marshall, who was it? All right? Two
Speaker 1: to one? Should have known you would know you're Katy
Speaker 1: Perry history as informer Marine So okay. Question number four.
Speaker 1: Natalie Herschlag snagged starring roles in Garden State, v for
Speaker 1: Vendetta and in Star Wars Wow, Star Wars Phantom Menace Marshall.
Speaker 1: What is her real name? Okay? Two to two? This
Speaker 1: is the last one. Wow, this is a close one. Okay,
Speaker 1: last one. This is a good one. Here we go.
Speaker 1: This death Row rapper, famous for his hit song about
Speaker 1: Jen and Juice, was born Cortizar Calvin Brodus Junior al right.
Speaker 1: Recently he co hosted a TV show on v H
Speaker 1: one with Martha Stewart. This was a huge comeback. If
Speaker 1: he gets this right, who wasn't Marshall? Oh wow, nicely done,
Speaker 1: so three to two. Good job guys. So what has
Speaker 1: Marshall won today? Mango? As always, first place wins a
Speaker 1: handwritten note from us to your mom or your boss,
Speaker 1: singing your praises, and this week that goes to Marshall.
Speaker 1: And because we don't want Rob in second place to
Speaker 1: feel bad, we'll be mailing you a pterodactyl tope bag,
Speaker 1: the cheapest tope bag we could find online with the
Speaker 1: pterodactyl on it. Thank you both for playing. Thanks guys
Speaker 1: for being on a part time genius. This was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Thanks. So we talked about the popular
Speaker 1: Divine Rand's novels and her later nonfiction writing. But what
Speaker 1: would you say of her lasting impact? Well, there's no
Speaker 1: question she's made millions of people think and over the
Speaker 1: past couple of decades, after a big economic downturn and
Speaker 1: the emergence of the Tea Party and other conservative movements,
Speaker 1: she certainly enjoyed a resurgence. But I wonder how many
Speaker 1: politicians will continue to claim Rand as a major influence
Speaker 1: as more and more things have come out about her,
Speaker 1: like her open marriage, the fact that she advocated for abortions,
Speaker 1: her absolute detest of religion. I mean, she hated Reagan
Speaker 1: because he sold her theories to the masses by tethering
Speaker 1: them to religion. It just gets hard to embrace her publicly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about. I mean, you used to
Speaker 1: hear politicians like Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford talking about
Speaker 1: being heavily inspired by Rand. I think Ryan even said
Speaker 1: he made her books required reading for all of his interns,
Speaker 1: and that he read the books a few times a year.
Speaker 1: But what it feels like we're seeing now as politicians
Speaker 1: acknowledging that Rand simply got them thinking about the world
Speaker 1: and how to live in it, you know, more in
Speaker 1: their teenage years. In fact, some of her early editors
Speaker 1: say as much. She had one quite liberal editor who
Speaker 1: said he loved her work and was happy to publish
Speaker 1: it because it was great young adult fiction. It makes young,
Speaker 1: disenfranchised teens embrace their independent qualities and reframes them as heroes.
Speaker 1: And of course these are oversimplified ideas that people could
Speaker 1: overcome almost any adversity just through hard work and intelligence,
Speaker 1: and that everyone is either sorted into people who produce
Speaker 1: or people who leach. Journalist Nora Ephron wrote about her
Speaker 1: experience with Brand and specifically her reading of The fountain Head,
Speaker 1: and said she loved the book as an eighteen year old,
Speaker 1: but that she really missed the point and that quote
Speaker 1: it's a better read when one is young enough to
Speaker 1: miss the point, Otherwise one cannot help but thinking it's
Speaker 1: a very silly book. So it does feel like now
Speaker 1: you hear more politicians acknowledging that they had a Rand phase,
Speaker 1: and both Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford have said in
Speaker 1: more recent years that they reject her overall philosophy for
Speaker 1: its lack of compassion. And in a day when it's
Speaker 1: like much easier to know the full story of someone's writings,
Speaker 1: it's harder for someone to quote one part of Rand's
Speaker 1: philosophy without someone else quickly pointing out, well, did you
Speaker 1: know she said this terrible thing or that terrible thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all out there on the internet right now,
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Web now here. It's gonna be big. It is,
Speaker 1: and I don't think either of us are suggesting that
Speaker 1: iron Rand won't continue to find an audience. There are
Speaker 1: definitely several businesses that have been named after Rand, and
Speaker 1: you know, as we saw as we were doing our
Speaker 1: research for the episode on tax havens, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of yachts and even construction companies in the Cayman's
Speaker 1: name for her. So while politicians and other public figures
Speaker 1: may not be quite as quick to get behind iron Rand,
Speaker 1: there is one thing we should all be able to
Speaker 1: get behind. What's that the fact that no show could
Speaker 1: be complete without the part time genius fact on Let's
Speaker 1: do it M So I'm gonna start. Did you know
Speaker 1: Iron Rand was a massive Charlie's Angel fan. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: never missed an episode, and she was actually also obsessed
Speaker 1: with Agatha Christie books, though she only liked Herkuele Poirot
Speaker 1: and not miss Marvel, mainly because she wasn't a feminist.
Speaker 1: All right. Well, iron Ran was so afraid of being
Speaker 1: kidnapped that she refused to take planes. She only traveled
Speaker 1: by trains, and sometimes the people who sponsored her speeches
Speaker 1: would have a personal rail car added to a train
Speaker 1: to transport her. I know, I always ask for an
Speaker 1: extra rail car anytime I give this stretch. So she
Speaker 1: was also paranoid about losing her manuscripts, and when Atlas
Speaker 1: Shrug was being written, she would often put the text
Speaker 1: in her briefcase, then handcuffed to her husband when they
Speaker 1: went out. All right, Well, every year, four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: copies of Rand's novels are given free to Advance Placement
Speaker 1: high school programs. They're paid for by the iron Ran Institute,
Speaker 1: whose director yarrown Brook said the mission was to keep
Speaker 1: Rand alive. That's so, for all her talk of hating charity,
Speaker 1: she actually did some nice things for people, Like she
Speaker 1: paid for Frank's niece to go to college, and one
Speaker 1: time she sent stamps to kids of a family she'd
Speaker 1: met because she knew the kids were stamp collectors. And
Speaker 1: of course, her rationale for all of that was the
Speaker 1: charity shouldn't be a zero sum game. She only helped
Speaker 1: people if she thought she was getting something for that money.
Speaker 1: It's almost like she had to rationalize like giving because
Speaker 1: it was against everything she wrote about. Wow. Well, the
Speaker 1: only instance I could find of iron Ran admitting she
Speaker 1: had made a mistake was with one of her followers.
Speaker 1: She was having an affair with so Iron set down
Speaker 1: with her husband the guy's wife the guy, and she
Speaker 1: told them it was selfish of them and immoral of
Speaker 1: them not to let Iron and the guy have an affair.
Speaker 1: Her terms were that the affair would take place a
Speaker 1: few days a week for maybe two years, and the
Speaker 1: mistakes she admitted was that she should have presented it
Speaker 1: as a longer term. That's ridiculous. So did you know
Speaker 1: that Alan Greenspan was one of her groupies, so he
Speaker 1: took her to meet President Ford in Washington when he
Speaker 1: was sworn into a new physician. Also, Greenspan was constantly
Speaker 1: telling her she should put her money in the stock market,
Speaker 1: but she refused. She just kept in a bank account.
Speaker 1: So at the end of her day, she didn't have
Speaker 1: nearly as much money as she could have, which is
Speaker 1: odd for a capitalist. So maybe that's why she took
Speaker 1: socially curity at the end of her life. What i'n
Speaker 1: ran was on Social Security. Yeah, I mean, she was
Speaker 1: philosophically against it, but her lawyer basically told her she
Speaker 1: needed the money for her illnesses. And I'm told her
Speaker 1: to make decisions but not to tell her about them.
Speaker 1: That's so disappointing, but it is a great fact. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to seed this round to you. Thank you, um.
Speaker 1: And before we finally sign off, we've got to announce
Speaker 1: our addition to the Hall of Genius. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: I was so influenced by i'm Rand's philosophy and absolute
Speaker 1: selfishness this week that I thought we should give the
Speaker 1: award to ourselves. So dumb, I think it's just you
Speaker 1: being lazy. Yeah, definitely. I'm equal parts producer and mucher now,
Speaker 1: so also I'm officially a genius. Good job. Well that
Speaker 1: sounds pretty dubious. But that's it for this week's Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for
Speaker 1: listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure to subscribe wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts, And because we're a brand
Speaker 1: new show, if you're feeling extra generous, we'd love it
Speaker 1: if you give us a rating on Apple Podcast. Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.
Speaker 1: It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing
Speaker 1: by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our
Speaker 1: research team is Gabe Bluesier, Lucas Adams, Autum white Field, Madronto,
Speaker 1: Austin Thompson and Meg Robbins. Jason Hoke is our chief cheerleader.