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Speaker 1: Guess what will? What's that? So? I just want to

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Speaker 1: warn you this might be the most controversial thing I

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Speaker 1: ever say on this show. Here it is. I don't

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Speaker 1: think iron Rand's that funny. Wait, that's your controversial statement.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's anyone out there debating that. Well

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Speaker 1: you think that. But iron Ran was such a polarizing figure,

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Speaker 1: and the people who love her, they love her. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she basically had groupies who treated everything she did like gospel.

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Speaker 1: I was reading this oral history of her life and

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Speaker 1: her secretary said that when Rand bought a new dining table,

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Speaker 1: all her disciples noticed, and the next day a bunch

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Speaker 1: of them went out and bought the same table for

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Speaker 1: their homes because they were convinced it was the only

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Speaker 1: real dining table. Wow. Well, she definitely had some devoted followers,

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Speaker 1: but that's not what makes learning about her so hard.

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Speaker 1: Either people hated her or they worshiped her, So you

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Speaker 1: get quotes about how completely humorous she was, or on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, you get quotes about how riotously funny

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Speaker 1: she could be. But the examples of her being funny, well,

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Speaker 1: they just sound like people have cute funny confusion. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? Like the examples of her being funny

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Speaker 1: or like, someone saw her do a little dance when

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Speaker 1: she was happy, and that's not funny, that's cute. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I really hunted. And this is the only joke of

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Speaker 1: her as I could find. Are you ready for it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think so because it is hilarious. So what's a

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Speaker 1: four letter word ending in I T that embodies Eleanor

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt and is found at the bottom of a bird cage?

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Speaker 1: First of all, I kind of love that even her

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Speaker 1: jokes are overwritten. But anyway, and whenever she started telling

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Speaker 1: this joke, she started giggling and could barely get through it.

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Speaker 1: But the answer is grit, which I guess to iron

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Speaker 1: Rand was objectively funny. Like, the only really funny thing

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Speaker 1: about that joke is that she hated Eleanor Roosevelt, but

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Speaker 1: the punch line kind of praises her. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: see iron Ran getting a Netflix comedy special anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: But she was charismatic and smart and she had a

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Speaker 1: really fascinating life. But here's my question, why does she

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Speaker 1: seem to be the most talked about novelist of our times?

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Speaker 1: Even though she wrote her novels more than fifty years ago,

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Speaker 1: and why is it that Washington can't get enough of her?

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Speaker 1: I think it's time we find out. Hey there, podcast listeners,

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Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my

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Speaker 1: good friend Mangoes Hot Ticketer, Hey there, Mango, Hey, and

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Speaker 1: this is Part Time Genius Now. Today we're asking the

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Speaker 1: question how did Iron Rand become such a political rock star?

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Speaker 1: Which is going to be fun, I know. And in

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Speaker 1: addition to all things Rand will be joined by someone

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Speaker 1: who may rival Rand and his ability to capture the

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Speaker 1: hearts and minds of teenagers everywhere, the mega best selling

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Speaker 1: author of The Fault in Our Stars and our good

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Speaker 1: friend John Green. Now, do we have a really bad

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Speaker 1: quiz for him to play today? Mango the worst? Good god?

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Speaker 1: Who's playing our part time Genius quiz today? Well, and

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Speaker 1: sticking with the Iron Rand theme, we've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of architects competing for the big prize. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't know why architects are appropriate for a show on RAN,

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Speaker 1: well you'll understand soon. That's true. All right, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: get to it. So. Biographer Jennifer Burns described Rand as

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Speaker 1: the ultimate gateway drug to life on the right David Nolan,

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Speaker 1: one of the founders of the Libertarian Party, commented that

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Speaker 1: without Iron Ran, the libertarian movement would not exist, and

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Speaker 1: one twentieth century philosopher said that in the entire history

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Speaker 1: of philosophy, there were really only three philosophers worth paying

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Speaker 1: close attention to. They were the three A's Mango. It

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Speaker 1: was Aristotle, A Quintas and Iron Rand. In fact, that

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Speaker 1: philosopher called Ran the most creative thinker alive. So tell

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Speaker 1: me who said this, Well, it was Iron Ran, but

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Speaker 1: she might have been a little bit biased, but still,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's a pretty big endorsement. Yeah, she didn't

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Speaker 1: just give out endorsements to anyone. She earned that endorsement.

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Speaker 1: So in honor of that, we should recommend the only

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Speaker 1: things worth listening to today, and that's the Three piecee

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Speaker 1: P Yeah, Prince Paula Abduel and part Time Wow. That's

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Speaker 1: part of the playlist, Mango. Actually, do you know what

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Speaker 1: Iron Rand's quote reminds me of? What's that? So there's

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Speaker 1: great a season Sorry where he talks about walking into

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Speaker 1: Kanye west house and Kanye is in his living room

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Speaker 1: just nodding his head to his own music and when

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Speaker 1: he sees his ease. He just points out the speaker

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Speaker 1: and says, these pets are dope. Like of all the

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Speaker 1: music out there, Kanye only really needs Kanye. He's that genius.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm Rand had a similar opinion

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Speaker 1: of herself in this book, A Hundred Voices and Oral

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Speaker 1: History of an Rand. Her friends say she'd often read

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Speaker 1: and reread her own books, like she'd pick up one

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Speaker 1: of her books to find a quote, and then she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to pull herself away because she found

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Speaker 1: out her own writing was that captivating. But you just

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Speaker 1: have to keep reading the novel and Atlas shrugged his laws,

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Speaker 1: it take the average person thirty six hours to read it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think Iron Rand would be quick to remind

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Speaker 1: you that she was no average person. That's definitely true.

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Speaker 1: And to be clear, just like Kanye, she wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only one captivated by her own work. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: surprising that whenever there's a big list of the most

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Speaker 1: influential books in history where readers, not critics are weighing in,

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Speaker 1: she tops the list. In the nineties, the Library of

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Speaker 1: Congress and the Book of the Month Club teamed up

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Speaker 1: to ask readers what book had influenced them the most.

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Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, number one on the list was The Bible,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it's hard to vote against God's writing.

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Speaker 1: But in second place at Las Shrugged. Yeah, but reader

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Speaker 1: polls are notoriously the worst. I mean, when I was

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Speaker 1: in high school, Delaware Today had a reader poll of

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Speaker 1: the best Mexican restaurants in the state, and Taco Bell

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Speaker 1: came in second place. I don't know what's your point is,

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Speaker 1: Taco Bell is delicious, but but that book isn't the

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Speaker 1: only one iron fans are passionate about. When the Modern

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Speaker 1: Library did a survey asking readers to vote on the

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Speaker 1: twentieth centuries best works of fiction, at Las Shrug came

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Speaker 1: in first. Again, The fountain Head was right behind it

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Speaker 1: in second, Anthem was seventh, and We the Living was

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Speaker 1: in eighth. Those are all Rand works. This is crazy,

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Speaker 1: but most scholars don't agree, right, I mean, none of

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Speaker 1: those four Iron Rand books showed up on the Modern

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Speaker 1: Library survey of critics, not a single one. You're right,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a clear divide between the world of

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Speaker 1: critics and Iron Rand's massive fan base, which might be wise.

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Speaker 1: She hated critics so much. Scholars and critics in general

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Speaker 1: never took her that seriously, right, But after seeing how

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Speaker 1: many people she had influenced and how passionate her fans are,

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Speaker 1: I realized that ignoring her is clearly a mistake. Like

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Speaker 1: millions of people intensely identified with their stories, and I've

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Speaker 1: always just assumed it was purely like bankers and politicians

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Speaker 1: and the band Rush that wasn'to her. But she also

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Speaker 1: influenced like Billy Jean King and even Mendez. You might

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Speaker 1: not expect. I mean, Rand's goal from the start was

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Speaker 1: to create these page turning, action adventure novels layered with

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Speaker 1: mystery and passion that spread her philosophy, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of amazing that she actually did that. Like, for whatever

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Speaker 1: you think about her, she got a whole world of

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Speaker 1: people to rethink their values and also maybe believe in themselves. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean, her whole notion was to sell people on objectivism,

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Speaker 1: which is built on the idea that man is a

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Speaker 1: heroic being. And Ran identified man's own happiness as the

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Speaker 1: moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his

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Speaker 1: noblest activity and reason as his only absolute which sounds

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Speaker 1: lovely on the surface, right, You're like, who can't get

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Speaker 1: behind working hard and achieving and being happy and living rationally.

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Speaker 1: That's what she truly believed. But she also thought she

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Speaker 1: was only writing to reach a few extraordinary people in

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Speaker 1: every generation. And when you play Rand's philosophy out, she's

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Speaker 1: advocating that selfish behavior is the most moral behavior and

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Speaker 1: that altruism is inherently evil. It's a little like the

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Speaker 1: anti Mr Rogers, right, it's not everyone special, but more

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Speaker 1: only a few of you are special. And also, instead

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Speaker 1: of sharing, why don't you hoard your toys? Exactly? Actually,

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Speaker 1: there's this great quote from Christopher Hitchens that I scribbled down.

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Speaker 1: He said, I've always found that quaint and rather touching,

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Speaker 1: that there's a movement in the US that thinks Americans

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Speaker 1: are not yet selfish enough. I love that. But back

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Speaker 1: to Rand, So she rejected altruism. She was completely against

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Speaker 1: any government overreach, whether that meant curbing your rights or

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Speaker 1: redistributing wealth into social services. So you can also see

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Speaker 1: why TEA Party members and conservatives started regularly quoting her

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Speaker 1: work after the financial meltdown. And to clear Rand did

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Speaker 1: not like to be described as a conservative or a libertarian.

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Speaker 1: She was a strident atheist who preferred to be called

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Speaker 1: a radical for capitalism, which is why she wore all

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Speaker 1: those radical jewelry pieces shaped like giant dollar signs, right right,

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Speaker 1: I think that's I just love how big and how

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Speaker 1: gold they were. I think those were from the Scrooge

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Speaker 1: make Duck collections. So but it's clear that iron Rand

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Speaker 1: loved capitalism and extraordinary people. So who are some of

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Speaker 1: the geniuses she was talking about? Well, in vague terms,

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Speaker 1: she admired great artists and captains of industry, people who

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Speaker 1: produced versus the moochers and the takers. So, according to

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Speaker 1: her friend Susan Ludell, for Iron, Aristotle and Victor Hugo

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Speaker 1: were basically the tops. Then she also loved Greta Garbo

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Speaker 1: and Muhammad Ali Michelangelo and the chess player Bobby Fisher.

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Speaker 1: I mean, those are all talented people. But her favorite

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Speaker 1: contemporary hero, and this comes from multiple sources, Morris the Cat.

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Speaker 1: This is the finnicky cat from those Nine Lives Cat

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Speaker 1: Food Dads. Yeah, apparently she couldn't get enough of those commercials,

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Speaker 1: and not just because it featured a big, fluffy tabby,

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Speaker 1: but because she loved Morris's distinct form of aggressive personality.

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Speaker 1: Of course, she loved that he didn't stand for nonsense

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Speaker 1: and that he had strong opinions, and she liked his face.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some might say that's reading a lot into

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Speaker 1: a TV cat, but she loved him so much that

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Speaker 1: she went out and bought the novelty biographies about him. Right,

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Speaker 1: of course, I ran as a cat person. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's not going to like something as needy as a dog. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she did have a number of cats. But you

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Speaker 1: know what's funny is that as cold as Iron's philosophy

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Speaker 1: can sound, there are a lot of accounts of her

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Speaker 1: being downright nice, like I mean, she's very much lived

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Speaker 1: by her principles. She didn't like to be contradicted, she

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Speaker 1: didn't give to charity, she was radically direct with people.

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Speaker 1: But in the accounts I read, I don't think she

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Speaker 1: was intentionally mean very often. Well that may be, but

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Speaker 1: it's definitely fun to read how famous people react to

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Speaker 1: her work. In fact, maybe we should dedicate an episode

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Speaker 1: to this alone. All right, maybe not. But people were

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Speaker 1: not always very kind so to Flannery O'Connor, for example,

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Speaker 1: she wrote in a letter to a friend that the

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Speaker 1: fiction of Iron Rand is as low as you can get.

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Speaker 1: Regarding fiction, I hope you picked it up off the

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Speaker 1: floor of the subway and through it and the nearest

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Speaker 1: garbage tail out. Flannery, I actually kind of like saying, ouch, Lanery,

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Speaker 1: that might be a new thing for me. And Gourvidel

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Speaker 1: once described Rand's view of the world is nearly perfect

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Speaker 1: and its immorality Ouch Flannery. See it works there too,

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Speaker 1: But then you hear the stories of people who are

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Speaker 1: just obsessed, like Ted Turner once paid for nearly two

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Speaker 1: d and fifty billboards that simply asked who is John Galt? Again?

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Speaker 1: If that reference doesn't make much sense to you now,

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Speaker 1: it will after we dive into Rand's works. But before

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Speaker 1: we do that, we should probably give a little bit

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Speaker 1: of background on Rand's early years, because they do help

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Speaker 1: us understand where her philosophy came from. So, Mango, what

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Speaker 1: do you say, I give you hundred and eighty four

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Speaker 1: seconds to talk about rans early life. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that's going to cover it. Well, I'm setting my four

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Speaker 1: second clock anyway, so you're ready, go okay. So, in

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Speaker 1: some ways it's not hard to see how some of

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Speaker 1: Rand's views developed. Rand was born Alisa Rosenbaum in in St. Petersburg, Russia.

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Speaker 1: Her situation was pretty comfortable. Her dad was a pharmacist

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Speaker 1: and owned his own shop. Her mother came from an

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Speaker 1: important family, and her sisters even had a Belgian governess,

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Speaker 1: and the girls went to an elite school. The Rosenbombs

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Speaker 1: took grand vacations across the continent, which is not to

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Speaker 1: say that there weren't hardships. I mean, Russia was deeply

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Speaker 1: anti Semitic and Jews were often persecuted, but the family

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Speaker 1: was so well connected, and for the most part, the

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Speaker 1: girls had a sheltered upbringing. So that all changed in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen when her father's pharmacy was taken over by

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Speaker 1: the Soviets during the Bolshevik Revolution. I mean, to watch

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Speaker 1: a government take over your family's business and to simultaneously

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Speaker 1: witness people preached the importance of the state over individual rights,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that changed you forever well. And

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Speaker 1: I think her family really struggled after that, right definitely.

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Speaker 1: So they moved into an apartment with no electricity. Rand

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Speaker 1: reportedly told friends that at one point they were even

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Speaker 1: wrapping their feet in newspaper because they couldn't afford shoes,

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Speaker 1: there was no running water. It was a super different time. Well,

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Speaker 1: I suppose one good thing that came about for her

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Speaker 1: was the ability to attend college. So after the Russian Revolution,

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Speaker 1: universities opened up to women, and Ran was one of

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Speaker 1: the first female students at Petrograd State University, that's right,

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Speaker 1: which is where she studied history and discovered one of

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Speaker 1: her biggest influences, the works of Aristotle. But she didn't

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Speaker 1: stay in Petersburg for long, right, that's right. She had

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to come to the US when she was

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Speaker 1: twenty to visit relatives, and after stops in New York

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Speaker 1: City in Chicago, she eventually found her way to Hollywood. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it turns out she was a huge movie lover

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Speaker 1: that she'd been seeing as many movies as she could

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Speaker 1: before she even got to the US. And then when

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Speaker 1: she was in Chicago, she had a relative who owned

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Speaker 1: a movie theater letter see films for free. So it's

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Speaker 1: no big surprise that she'd want to work in the

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Speaker 1: film industry. But she didn't exactly thrive there. No, she didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I struggled in Hollywood in her early years.

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Speaker 1: But I want to pause for a second, to talk

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Speaker 1: about her mom. Now, didn't she model some of her

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Speaker 1: petty and superficial characters in her novels after her? I

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Speaker 1: mean that that's kind of a classic literary bird, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So his mom was pretty hard on her,

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Speaker 1: and rand was super smart, the head of her class.

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Speaker 1: She wrote provocative essays in school and knew early that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to be a writer. From like age eight

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Speaker 1: or something, she'd internalized the story of Catherine the Great,

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Speaker 1: this woman who's overlooked and underestimated because she was homely

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Speaker 1: but clearly smart and savvy enough to grab power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I knew from a young age she was going

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Speaker 1: to be great. I mean, she absolutely believed that exactly.

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Speaker 1: But she wasn't athletic or popular. And Anna Rosenbaum wanted

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Speaker 1: her daughter to succeed socially, so she nagged a lot,

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Speaker 1: and she could be pretty mean. Like once, when I'm

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Speaker 1: was four or five, she and her sister had strewn

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Speaker 1: toys all over the room, and Anna was irritated, so

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Speaker 1: she told her daughters to pick a few of their

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Speaker 1: favorite toys, give her the rest, and then one year

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Speaker 1: later they'd be able to trade them in. So i'n

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Speaker 1: sister kept a few of her favorites and gave the

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Speaker 1: rest to her mom. Meanwhile, I'm being a thinker, decided

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Speaker 1: to delay her gratification. She thought about how happy she'd

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Speaker 1: be a year from now to get her favorite toys back,

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Speaker 1: so she kept her least favorite ones, and then a

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Speaker 1: year later, when she asked her mom about the trade,

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Speaker 1: her mom laughed and said she'd given them all to

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Speaker 1: an orphan. Oh no, that's pretty rough, I know. So

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Speaker 1: it's this memory that's a little unfair, probably because most

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Speaker 1: people have a similar gripe with their parents. But for

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Speaker 1: iron Rand, who throughout her life found it really hard

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Speaker 1: to forgive even the smallest of slights against her, she

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Speaker 1: really held onto that grudge. And of course the story

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Speaker 1: is all about the unfairness of having your possession snatched

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Speaker 1: and given away to the poor. So I'm no shrink,

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Speaker 1: but you see how that shows up in her work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to see how she was against altruism

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Speaker 1: when not only was her family's pharmacy being given to

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Speaker 1: other people, but her stuffed animals were too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's funny is that as much as she hated her mom,

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Speaker 1: her mom also played a big part in her ideology,

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Speaker 1: Like she wrote things to I'm like every man is

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Speaker 1: an architect of his own future, and every person is

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Speaker 1: the maker of her own happiness. And that sounded very

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Speaker 1: much like Randy and philosophy, I know. And so I

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Speaker 1: talks about everything like it just sprang from her own mind,

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Speaker 1: maybe with an assist from Aristotle or Nietzsche. For example,

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Speaker 1: she talks about how Russia was just a circumstance she

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Speaker 1: was born too, but how she would have developed the

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Speaker 1: exact same ideas in a vacuum because they're all perfectly

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Speaker 1: rational and reasonable, which I find hard to believe. What

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Speaker 1: that they're all reasonable. No, that she would have come

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Speaker 1: up with the same principles if she'd been born into

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Speaker 1: a different circumstance, or that she could have come up

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Speaker 1: with that philosophy without her mom's influence. But the other

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Speaker 1: thing that's interesting and also a little vexing, is how

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Speaker 1: rand believes she never got any help along the way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have to say, that's one thing that

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Speaker 1: really bothers me about her story too, Like her personal

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Speaker 1: mythology plays nicely into her ideology, but she got so

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Speaker 1: much help along the way, and her mom as much

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Speaker 1: as she nagged did a ton for She ordered foreign

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Speaker 1: magazines for as a child to stoke her interest in writing.

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Speaker 1: To get her into a film program, her mother joined

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Speaker 1: a communist society and shed all her elitist ties. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been admitted had her mom that made that sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: It was I's mother who had figured out a way

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Speaker 1: to get her daughter out of Russia to study film

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Speaker 1: in the US. She sold the last of her jewelry

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Speaker 1: to fund Iron's trip to the States. Even when I'm

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Speaker 1: was struggling in Hollywood, she and E'n's dad were saving

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Speaker 1: and sending twenty five dollars a month to E'n from Russia,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy, just so she could eat and cover

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Speaker 1: her expenses. And they were already scraping just to get by. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And in the U. S Sens extended family made all

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Speaker 1: sorts of incredible sacrifices for her to like They fed

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Speaker 1: her and lent her quite a bit of money that

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Speaker 1: she never even paid back apparently, And they made the

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Speaker 1: introduction for her to Cecil de Mills Studio in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: which is how she got the job in California in

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Speaker 1: the first place. And they allowed her to type at night,

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Speaker 1: even though it disrupted the whole family's sleep, like they

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Speaker 1: did so much for her, and she was always just

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Speaker 1: aloof and kind of ignored them when she became famous,

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Speaker 1: although she did send them some free copies of her books,

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Speaker 1: and she said she didn't believe in charity. All right,

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Speaker 1: speaking of books, how about we take a break for

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Speaker 1: a little literature quiz. So our guest today is a

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Speaker 1: very good friend and one of the most brilliant people

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Speaker 1: man guest and I know. But more importantly, he's also

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Speaker 1: a very good due. He was one of the very

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Speaker 1: first contributors to Mental Flaws magazine when Mangesh and I

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Speaker 1: started it back in two thousand one. But not long

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Speaker 1: after that he informed us he'd be leaving Mental Flaws

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Speaker 1: to go write a novel. We just laughed and laughed

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Speaker 1: and said, we'll see you back in a few weeks.

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Speaker 1: But holy crap if he didn't write several great novels,

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Speaker 1: though it did take him a whole decade before he

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Speaker 1: hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list

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Speaker 1: with a publication of The Fault in Our Stars. A

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Time magazine named in one of

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Speaker 1: the one most influential people in the world. But even

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Speaker 1: after all this success, he's still mostly a good dude.

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Speaker 1: So John, welcome to Part Time Genius. Thanks great to

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Speaker 1: be here. It's always fun to hang out with you guys.

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Speaker 1: So we joke about you taking a decade to hit

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Speaker 1: number one on the list. But the life of a

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Speaker 1: struggling writer is something You've talked a good bit about,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious just to hear from you how your

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Speaker 1: perspective has changed on what it means to be a

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Speaker 1: successful writer in today's publishing world. Yeah. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: to be honest, like, when my first book came out

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Speaker 1: in two thousand five, it only sold like two thousand

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Speaker 1: copies in its first year, but I thought that was

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Speaker 1: very successful find I mean, you know, I've always had

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Speaker 1: a day job, and I always figured I would have

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Speaker 1: a day job, so I wasn't thinking that I was

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Speaker 1: ever going to make a living from writing books. And uh,

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Speaker 1: the surprise development that I guess I have been able

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Speaker 1: to have been wonderful. But honestly, I'm still going to

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Speaker 1: the office every morning to work on crash course and

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Speaker 1: the video stuff that we do, and I like having

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Speaker 1: a day job, and I wouldn't want to give it up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like you do spend a fair amount

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Speaker 1: of time encouraging other writers and talking to other writers

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Speaker 1: about that, whether it's a struggle or whatever it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do want to be encouraging to young writers, especially

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Speaker 1: because I don't think it's like an unrealistic gold published

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Speaker 1: a novel. Like for many years I worked at this

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Speaker 1: magazine called book List, which was the review journal the

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Speaker 1: Marithon Library Association, and book Lists comes out every two weeks,

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Speaker 1: and every two weeks it reviews four or five novels

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Speaker 1: or books at least, And so there's lots of people

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Speaker 1: writing books, and there's no reason, um that that any

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Speaker 1: of us can't be one of them. Obviously, you love reading,

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Speaker 1: Like what writers have you fallen in love with recently?

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Speaker 1: And who should we be reading right now? The best

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Speaker 1: book I've read, the best young adult book I've read

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Speaker 1: in ages is uh The Hate You Give by Angie Thomas.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's phenomenal. I think it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be remembered as a classic in the

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Speaker 1: way that we talked about The Outsiders Catcher in the Rye.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very special book. It just came

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Speaker 1: out a couple of months ago, so you still you

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Speaker 1: can still get on the bandwagon early. Um, and then

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Speaker 1: I really uh, I loved Coulson Whitehead's most recent novel,

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Speaker 1: Underground Railroad. I've been a fan of his since I

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Speaker 1: was working at book List. Um. I was given one

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Speaker 1: of his books many many years ago to review, and

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Speaker 1: uh have followed his career. But I think Underground Railroad

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Speaker 1: is this his best book? It's just occasionally like the

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Speaker 1: book that wins the National Book Award and a few

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Speaker 1: Surprise and all the other awards, it turns out to

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Speaker 1: just be that good. And I think Underground Railroad is

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Speaker 1: is that book? Yeah, that's the only book of his

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Speaker 1: that I've read, but it was it was terrific. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: John henry Day, his first novel is also amazing. Well,

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Speaker 1: as you know, this is part of the Iron Rand episode,

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Speaker 1: and we decided for our guest today, we wanted to

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Speaker 1: find the only author that we know rivals Rand and

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Speaker 1: popularity with teenagers. So congratulations for that one. That's a

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Speaker 1: dubious honor to be put in the same same category

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Speaker 1: as as the Sountain Head. I mean, I know, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys are trying to present a fairly unbiased

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Speaker 1: case here, but I have to confess that I am

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Speaker 1: not unbiased when it comes to uh to iron Rand,

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Speaker 1: I am not a fan. We might have done this

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Speaker 1: to you on purpose, So yeah, I know I I

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Speaker 1: kind of guess. All right, Well, mano, what quiz is

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Speaker 1: John playing with us today? So he's playing a game

427
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 1: called real celebrity children's book or something we just made up.

428
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 1: I don't want to brag in advance, but I know

429
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: a lot of real celebrity children's books. I feel like

430
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna feel like I'm gonna do okay here, awesome,

431
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: all right, So we'll read you a title and a celebrity,

432
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,719
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is tell us if

433
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: it's a real book for children or something we made up.

434
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: So you don't need an example, but we kind of

435
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 1: wanted to give you anyway. So if we said how

436
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: Stinky the Cheese lost and then found his lost sneaker

437
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,239
Speaker 1: by Hank Green, you would say we made it up.

438
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: That is not a real children's book. Well done. I'm

439
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: glad you know your brother well enough. So okay, here

440
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: we go. Question number one. It's a Big World, Little

441
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: Pig by Christi Yamaguchi. Oh, I mean that's plausible, but

442
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's made up. Oh, it's true. Actually,

443
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: it'sn't about an adorable, persistent, dreaming big pig. All right,

444
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: that's a good one. You may have to pick that

445
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: one up. Okay. Question number two, henri Leto and the

446
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: Magical Imfanat a Machine by Justice Samuel Alito. That's not possible.

447
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: You're correct, and you would be correct. Alright, Thank god,

448
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: thank god. Okay. Question number three, cheetzu kaka poo poo

449
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 1: My kind of Dog by Joy Behart. I mean I

450
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: did I wish that I didn't know enough about Joy

451
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: Behart to know that she's a huge dawn person. But

452
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: I think I think that's probably true. Yeah, that's true.

453
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: It actually is a true book. All right, So what

454
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: are we now? We are two out of three so far.

455
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: All right, we got two more. Okay, Little t Learns

456
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: to Share by Terrell Owens's book. Alright, Number five, Love

457
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: is a five letter word by Dan Quail. Oh, I

458
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: mean do whispers in this podcast, remember dan QUI? I

459
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: don't know, but it was just too good not to

460
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: include it. It's not true, it's it. No, it's undifors

461
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: not true, Thank god. You know, it would be great

462
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: if dan Quail had embraced his inability to spell the

463
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: word potato and like just owned it and turned it

464
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,239
Speaker 1: into love is a five letter word, which, by the way,

465
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: it could be a great picture book. But I don't

466
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: I doubt that he has a self awareness for that.

467
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: But while we're on the topic of dan Quail, before

468
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: I let you guys go, ban Queen is in Indiana, guy,

469
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: and he will very likely when he passes away, be

470
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: buried in Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis where I live. Uh.

471
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: And Crown Hill Cemetery here in Indianapolis is home to

472
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: more dead US vice presidents who never became president than

473
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: any other single location on earth. WHOA, that's a great fact.

474
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,239
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I'm glad we set him up for that one.

475
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, thanks for the setup. That's actually the

476
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: only piece of trivia I know I looked out with

477
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: that one. Well done, all right, So, so how did

478
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: John do today? He got four out of five, which

479
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: is pretty amazing, and that wins in the top prize,

480
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: which is our continued admiration. Congratulations John, John, thanks so much.

481
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: For being with us. We can't wait to see what's next.

482
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: Thanks un, it's always good to talk to you guys.

483
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: Looking forward to podcast now. I know we already did

484
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: our guess what thing at the beginning of the episode,

485
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: but guess what else? Mango, what else? Will? So did

486
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: you know Iron Ran voted for f d R. How

487
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: can that be? I actually read that Iron and her

488
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: friend would take in New York Times with her to

489
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: the voting booth and vote against every recommendation to paper made,

490
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: which is true. But supposedly I'm voted for FDR because

491
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: he planned in prohibition. And what's weirder is that she

492
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: didn't even drink that much. But still, it's hard to

493
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: imagine her supporting someone so focused on the government's duty

494
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: to help citizens. I mean, this is the man who

495
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: set up Social Security, the SEC, the SEC, F D

496
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: I C T V A F A A. I'm pretty

497
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: sure I'm just listing letters at this point. Do you

498
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: definitely know a lot of letters? But let's get back

499
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: on track, So tell me about Rand's writing and her

500
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: Hollywood career. Sure, so, as we mentioned, Iron wasn't an

501
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: immediate hit in Hollywood, but she was hungry to make

502
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: a name for herself. She starts out with this letter

503
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: of introduction from her relatives to Cecil B. Demills Studio,

504
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: and she spends that into something amazing. So in her

505
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: story she talks about the luck she had bumping into

506
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: the mill on her first few days on the set.

507
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: But according to her friends, she was way more calculated

508
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: than that. It's much more likely she stalked him than

509
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: charmed him with her ambition. As you can guess, Iron

510
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: was big on creating your own luck. But she basically

511
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: talked her way into a better role as an extra

512
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: on the set of King of Kings, which is where

513
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: she met her future husband, Frank, and she landed a

514
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: steady job in wardrobe. Before too long, she was supplying

515
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: scenes to writing departments and working on rewrites. She just

516
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: kept hustling her way up. So I know one of

517
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: these gigs was supposedly reviewing movie scripts. And have you

518
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: read Mallory or Berg's Iron Rand reviews children's movies at

519
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: Mallory Hartberg from from the Toast. Yeah, she's she's such

520
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: as this and she did this Human Peace for The

521
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 1: New Yorker. It's so good. I have to read you.

522
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: My two favorite entries. I can't wait. So this is

523
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: Iron Rand supposedly reviewing Old Yeller. So a farm animal

524
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: ceases to be useful and is disposed of humanely, A

525
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: valuable lesson for children. Four stars, And this is Iron

526
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: Rand on Muffets Take Manhattan. This movie was a disappointment.

527
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: The Muppets don't take Manhattan. They merely visited No stars.

528
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: That's pretty rough, I know, but I cut you off.

529
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: You were talking about Rand's Hollywood hustle. Yes, she definitely

530
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: struggled for a while, and then about six years after

531
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: she gets the Hollywood she does start having some success.

532
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean, she sells a screenplay, which is astounding considering

533
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: the fact that she doesn't even speak English fluently yet.

534
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, her language is still rough around

535
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: the edges. But she's a workhorse and she's studying the craft.

536
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: And then she writes a play called The Night of

537
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: January sixteenth. It's a courtroom drama where the audience gets

538
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: pulled into the jury. It has a similar plot to

539
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: another play of the time, but it has a clever gimmick.

540
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: Depending on how the audience votes, the play's ending changes.

541
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: Oh kind of like I choose your own adventure. Uh

542
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: the movie Clue, which originally had four endings. Oh yeah, Clue.

543
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: So actually, by the way, did you know that movie

544
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 1: totally bombed at the box office because theaters only showed

545
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: one of the three endings each time. It was a

546
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: total crapshoot which ending you'd see, and so people were

547
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: just confused why they saw different versions of the movie.

548
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: So this classpt probably worked much better on VHD. I

549
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: guess so, I guess so, But but where were we? So?

550
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: So I is starting to play with philosophy. She saw

551
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: the plays endings as a touring litmus test for how

552
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: a jury thinks. But the more amazing thing about The

553
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: Night of January six is that it shed a ton

554
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: of royalties and was really smart about it. The play

555
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: only had one setting, so it was easy for summerstock

556
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: companies to put it on. And even though I'm soured

557
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: quickly on FDR and completely hated everything, he's good for

558
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: his works. Progress administration brought the play the hundreds of

559
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: local theaters around the country and paid for her performances.

560
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: According to author Anna conoverllor Ine was pocketing up to

561
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 1: twelve hundred dollars a week. In the depression era when

562
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: American incomes were usually around fifteen hundred dollars a year

563
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: and between then the screenplay she sold that gave her

564
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: space to write well, definitely. Her first novel, We the Living,

565
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: was published in nineteen thirty six, a year after the

566
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: Night of Hits Broadway. This is also the novel that

567
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: Ran later acknowledged was as close to autobiographical as anything

568
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: she would write. Sure, it's pretty common for writer's first

569
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: books to be pretty biographical, and Eines didn't follow the

570
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: details of her younger years exactly, but there were definitely similarities.

571
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: This was really Rand's first big public argument against communism.

572
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: So instead of a pharmacy, the protagonist own a textile

573
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: factory that gets taken away. It's a familiar theme, the

574
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 1: struggle of the individual against the state. Right, so this

575
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: is the theme she keeps building on in The fountain Head.

576
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: Guess how old she was when The fountain Head was published? Well,

577
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: all right, so this was nineteen forty three, so she

578
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: was thirty eight. Wait are you thinking thinking what I'm thinking? Yep,

579
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: we'll both be thirty eight after your birthday next month.

580
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: So we should write a fountain Head sequel. Okay, I

581
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: can't believe you were thinking the exact same thing I

582
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: was thinking. Yeah, instead of a fountain Head part two,

583
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: I think we should call it the mountain Head. All right, Yeah,

584
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: this is sounding worse tier then, and I have to

585
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: be honest. So Rand always said that in The fountain Head,

586
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: her goal was to show the vision of the ideal man,

587
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: and she felt she accomplished this with the novel's main character,

588
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: Howard Rourke, exactly works and architect who's a fierce individualist

589
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: and refuses to sell out to compromise his vision. So

590
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: in the novel we see all the struggles for work

591
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: faces because he's unwilling to simply conform and fall in

592
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: line with what the establishment thinks architecture should be. You

593
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: see others in the novel taking advantage of his talents,

594
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: but as Rand's ideal man, he shouns what she dubs

595
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: collectivism and stands firm against the second handers, the societal

596
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: parasites who live off of others talents. Yeah, Iron Rand

597
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: definitely saw the world in black and white, but it's

598
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: not surprising that the theme resonated with so many people,

599
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: and of course it launched Rand into another level popularity

600
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: and success. Yeah. One thing that's funny about The fountain

601
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: Head is that I'm kept a list of the twelve

602
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: publishers that rejected that book. It's in her archives in

603
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: a big part of her personal narrative. But what I

604
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: didn't realize until reading Heller's book was that of the twelve,

605
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: she turned down the advance from one for being too low.

606
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: Then she had a contract with one of them and

607
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: mr big deadlines that they dropped her, and for another

608
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: three or four of them, she only submitted a super

609
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: rough outline instead of full chapters, so they didn't really

610
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: understand the book, Like, if you're going to hold a

611
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: grudge for being rejected, all of those details matter. Well,

612
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: they didn't to RM. Even after it was written, publishers

613
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: weren't exactly sure what to do with The fountain Head,

614
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: but the book grew from word of mouth and it

615
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: quickly brought Rand the financial security she needed to be

616
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: able to think about other projects, so whether that was

617
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: screenplays or nonfiction, or just being a more vocal activist

618
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: for the anti communist and free market movements. So why

619
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: do you think she decided or should be an architect.

620
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: I think it's because I'm viewed architecture is being this

621
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: perfect blend of art, business and science, and decided that

622
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: her ideal man should look like this for the book.

623
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: Well that makes sense, and it's interesting that our philosophy

624
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: is pro art because I don't always think about Rand's

625
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: fans thinking that way. But back to the fountain Head,

626
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: it's curious how many architects would go around claiming Rourke

627
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: was patterned on them, like Richard Neutra, Raphael Soriano. There

628
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: at least four or five prominent people who just assumed

629
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: it was them. Well, it's especially funny because while we

630
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: know iron Ran considered Frank Lloyd Right the true Rourke,

631
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: when she actually met Right, she was turned off by

632
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: the fact that he surrounded himself with yes men who

633
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: worshiped his work, which you know, it's exactly what iron

634
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: Ran did. I mean, her groupies had to take loyalty tests,

635
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: they survived show trials in her living room just to

636
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: keep hanging with her loyalty tests. That's amazing, But it wasn't.

637
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Right also kind of a socialist. Well yeah,

638
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: she kind of ignored that too, So so we talked

639
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: about individualism and collectivism, but we haven't yet talked about

640
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: the is m Rand is best known for, and that's objectivism.

641
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: And that's because we haven't really talked about the mother

642
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: of all Iron Ran books, Atlas Shrugged, which, by the way,

643
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: my dad used to pronounce shrug it like rugged. I

644
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like a personal joke, but I

645
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: realized in college I was the only person in the

646
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: world I was pronouncing the book that way. And it

647
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: makes no sense because obviously it's shrugged. Like they'll get

648
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: me started on how you pronounced calcium calcium, but I

649
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: think you were talking about how the idea for Atlas

650
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: Shrugged emerged, right. So, as popular as The fountain Head was,

651
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: Iron was upset that readers and reviewers weren't grasping her philosophy.

652
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: And it's true that like each character in that book

653
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: has one specific philosophy and acts in that manner, and

654
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: she assumed it was all super clear to the reader.

655
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: But one of her friends told her, why don't you

656
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: just write a book to set people straight? And as

657
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: Iron started boxing saying she wasn't an altruist and it

658
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: wasn't her responsibility to clarify philosophy for this dumb audience,

659
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: like At the end of that conversation, she joked, maybe

660
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: I'll just go on strike, And that's where the idea

661
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: for Atlas came from, the question of what would happen

662
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: if all the world's most did people went on strike

663
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: at the same time. Well, but again, that project wasn't

664
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: exactly a quick turnaround, and she published Alice a decade

665
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: and a half after The fountain Head in nineteen fifty seven. Also,

666
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: did you know she refused to be edited, like she

667
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: famously told Bennett Surf of Random House, would you cut

668
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have shaved a

669
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: few paragraphs off the Bible and still had to make sense,

670
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: So she demanded no one touched her perfect text. Would

671
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: you cut the Bible? I think Bennett Surff could have

672
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: shaved a few paragraphs off the Bible and still had

673
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: to make sense. So um. Also, when she demanded no

674
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: one touched her perfect text, surf ast her to reduce

675
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: her royalties by eight cents a book to pay for

676
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: all that extra paper, which she actually did. I mean,

677
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: she was really committed to writing the Bible of objectivism,

678
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: and for someone who preached selfishness, she didn't mind taking

679
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: a pay cut to get her work out anyway. Atlas

680
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: Shrugged is where we meet the character John Galt, with

681
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: opening line who is John Galt? Uh? This book sets

682
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: up this mystery where and I'm sorry if we're spoiled

683
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: in this for you listeners, but honestly, you've had like

684
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: sixty years to read this thing. But it sets up

685
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: this mystery where John Galt has been leading a strike

686
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: of all those rand seas as the true contributors in society, scientists, artists,

687
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: inventors and so on, and in a dystopian us, the

688
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: phrase who is John Galt has become this meaningless phrase

689
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: of exasperation that's used widely. I really can't believe you

690
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: just spoiled John Gold. So maybe we should spoil some

691
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: other classics while we're at it, so you get all

692
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: our hate mail at the same time. So I'm sorry

693
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: to tell you, listeners, the Grinch doesn't just steal Christmas.

694
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: He ends up giving it back, and also Asslan from

695
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Well, he's Jesus.

696
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that sound we heard was forty people

697
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: simultaneously slamming their Dr. Seuss books down in disgust. But

698
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: Atlas Shrug's main intention is to show how without the

699
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: contributions of our most talented individuals, society and the economy

700
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: would collapse. Yeah, the idea of the strike was something

701
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: Rand talked about frequently, even outside of Atlas Shrug. Well,

702
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: I feel like half of what you talked about after

703
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: writing Outlas Shrugged was Atlas Shrug. At dinner parties, her

704
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: band of groupies would debate who would be the ideal

705
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: cast for an Atlas movie, And it's kind of the

706
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: way you might talk about baseball history and what your

707
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: fantasy baseball lineup would be. Well, the funny thing about

708
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: John Galt is that he's almost like those Chip Favery

709
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: andre the Giant stickers, or that Kilroy was here graffiti.

710
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: Once it gets pointed out to you, you start noticing

711
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: it everywhere. It's the same with those who is John

712
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: Galt signs. You see them at protests and tea party events,

713
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: and once you notice, you can't stop seeing them. So Anyway,

714
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: despite Inns previous common about not wanting to be altruistic

715
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and have to explain her philosophies after Atlas Drug, that's

716
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: sort of what she did. She began writing more and

717
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: more nonfiction and focusing on communicating her philosophy on how

718
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: we should all exist in society. As she saw it,

719
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: the only real goal of government was to protect individual rights.

720
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: There was no moral obligation to look after other people's needs. Sure,

721
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: and on the flip side, she also believed that no

722
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: one was responsible for your needs. Of course, it's important

723
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: to keep in my and the Atlas Shrug was written

724
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: in a time when socialism was growing, I mean, the

725
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: Cold War was strong, and lots of places were also

726
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: veering towards socialist democracies, and Rand was warning about a

727
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: world where most countries were on the verge of collapse

728
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: because of government overreach. Well knowing that, it's not hard

729
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: to see why certain conservatives and libertarians have jumped on

730
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: the Iron Rand train, but she hated libertarians like She

731
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: once called libertarians publicity seekers who rushed into politics prematurely

732
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: because they allegedly want to educate people through a political campaign,

733
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: which can't be done. And she also accused them of

734
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: plagiarizing her ideas, saying it's a bad sign for an

735
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: allegedly pro capitalist party to start stealing ideas. She really

736
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: used the word allegedly, loved allegedly so iron Ran didn't

737
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: really hold back her feelings. It's clear and she was

738
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: ridiculously sure of her ideas. In fact, this is part

739
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: of what made her such a controversial person. Like she

740
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: made a lot of divisive statements. Yeah, like what do

741
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: you want to give a few examples. Yeah. In her

742
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: address to the graduating class at West Point in the seventies,

743
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: she said of of Americans, quote, they had no right

744
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: to a country merely because they were born here and

745
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: then acted like savages. The white man did not conquer

746
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: this country. Well, you gave a commencement address last year,

747
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: did you use a similar quote? You know? I decided

748
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: to leave that one out now. She later defended her

749
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: point on that by basically saying whenever a superior technology

750
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: meets an inferior one, that society has the right to prevail.

751
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: She was insistent that it wasn't a racist argument, just

752
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: a problematic one. I'd say. Well, and Ran also hated

753
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: the feminist label. She even referred to herself as a

754
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: male chauvinist. I mean, that's not hard to figure out

755
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: from her books. And in addition, there's no other way

756
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: to put this, but a lot of her sex scenes

757
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: are kind of rape, like it's often a man throwing

758
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: a woman down who doesn't want to have sex but

759
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: actually does. And she ended up having to write letters

760
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: to her male fans clarifying that she was not suggesting

761
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: rape as a practical romantic strategy and that the scenes

762
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: she was writing about were actually consensual. And maybe that's

763
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: why she hasn't read on more college campuses. And also

764
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: plenty if people have taken issue with her comments about

765
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: women and the thinking that a woman shouldn't aspire to

766
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: be president, even though she claimed not to believe that

767
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: women were any less intelligent or capable. Yeah, but in

768
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: many ways the things that have made conservatives distanced themselves

769
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: from her are just the fact that she's stridently pro choice,

770
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: like she borrowed money from an abortion pretty early in

771
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: her marriage, and she was also a proud atheist. There's

772
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: a funny threat in her biography where housekeeper Eloise is

773
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: constantly trying to convert her, and even on her deathbed,

774
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: she's letting Eloise know there is no God. You think

775
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: would be very difficult for a social conservative to get

776
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: behind Rand because she was not vague in her positions

777
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: on these things. But I have to say, this is

778
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: starting to feel a little heavy. So when we cut

779
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: the tension with a little quiz, let's do it all right, mangoes.

780
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: So who do we have on the line today. We've

781
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: got two architects online. We've got Marshal from Birmingham, Alabama,

782
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: and Rob's calling in from New York City. All right,

783
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: so let's meet each of them. First. We have Marshall,

784
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: who started a company called Designed Initiative in Birmingham. Marshall,

785
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: welcome to part time genius. Glad to be here, excited

786
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: about the opportunity. All right. So I know that we're

787
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: here to talk about you guys as architects. But I

788
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: did notice in some of the notes that you sent

789
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: us that you joined the Marines at the age of

790
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: seventeen after seeing the movie Aliens. Is this true? Yeah,

791
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: that's right, I'm sure. Well I don't know either you

792
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: saw this movie, but there were these colonial marines that

793
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: had these really wicked guns that made this awesome sound.

794
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: And I saw the movie and thought, that's what I

795
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: want to do. In addition to that, I was kind

796
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: of tired of being told what to do but my father,

797
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: so I thought looked better way to kind of express

798
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: my independence and joining the Marine Corps. Then then to

799
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: go be told what to do by the Marines. Right, Yeah,

800
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: So I served for about four years, and uh, I

801
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: got a little tired of being told what to do,

802
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: and so the first thing I decided to do once

803
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: I got out was getting married. I'm married a strong,

804
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: wild Latino woman. Well done. All right, So Rob, tell

805
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: us how you were inspired by the movie Aliens. I

806
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever seen it. Excellent. So Rob is

807
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: currently working at the Googenheim. I'm actually curious what what

808
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: would you say is the best part of working at

809
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: the Googgenheim, Rob, I think the biggest perk is you

810
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: can go in there on a Thursday when nobody else

811
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: is in the entire museum and and get a pretty

812
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: impressive space to yourself. Oh that's awesome. Yeah, I'm jealous

813
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: of that. So all right, well it is time to

814
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: play one of our really really dumb games. And so, Mango,

815
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: what game are we playing today? We're playing a game

816
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: called the stage Name Game. All right, that's right. Because

817
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: iron RAN's actual name was Alyssa Rosenbaum, we thought we'd

818
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: play a game involving some celebrity original names. So, for example,

819
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: if we said Desiderio Albert Arnez the third was married

820
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: and starred in a sitcom with Lucille Ball, you would

821
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: say Desi Arnez got it. And because you're playing against

822
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: each other and we don't have buzzers, we're going to

823
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: give you each an animal sound buzzing with. Okay, that's right,

824
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: all right, Rob, do you want to me out for us?

825
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: I can do that, I guess, okay. And Marshall, why

826
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: don't you be our dog? So how about a wolf

827
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: wolf from you for your answers? That sound good? Perfect,

828
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: because you know marines are devil dogs. So I've got

829
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: a really good bark. Yes, that's what we We had

830
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: that in mind when we decided to do this. So alright,

831
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: so we've got five questions here. You want to jump in.

832
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: You will name the celebrity that we are giving a

833
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: hint about. So Question number one. Stevelyn Judkins is a

834
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: singer known for several hit songs including Signed, Sealed, Delivered

835
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: and I Just Called to say I Love you. What's

836
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: his real name? Yeah? All right, Rob, I heard him out.

837
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder, good job, okay. Question number two Ginger Rogers

838
00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: dancing partner Frederick Osterlitz took another name. What was it? Wow,

839
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: Rob's I think he's just excited to me out. Okay,

840
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: I think I heard you say it? Can you say

841
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: it again? There? Right? Okay? Good job too to nothing.

842
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: Here we go. Question number three. This pop singer with

843
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: hits I kissed a girl and Roar changed her name

844
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: from Kate Hudson. Oh, let me read the question that

845
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: I'll let you answer their Marshall changed her name from

846
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: Kate Hudson because she didn't want to be confused with

847
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: actress Kate Hudson. Marshall, who was it? All right? Two

848
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: to one? Should have known you would know you're Katy

849
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: Perry history as informer Marine So okay. Question number four.

850
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: Natalie Herschlag snagged starring roles in Garden State, v for

851
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: Vendetta and in Star Wars Wow, Star Wars Phantom Menace Marshall.

852
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: What is her real name? Okay? Two to two? This

853
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: is the last one. Wow, this is a close one. Okay,

854
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: last one. This is a good one. Here we go.

855
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: This death Row rapper, famous for his hit song about

856
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: Jen and Juice, was born Cortizar Calvin Brodus Junior al right.

857
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: Recently he co hosted a TV show on v H

858
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: one with Martha Stewart. This was a huge comeback. If

859
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: he gets this right, who wasn't Marshall? Oh wow, nicely done,

860
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: so three to two. Good job guys. So what has

861
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: Marshall won today? Mango? As always, first place wins a

862
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: handwritten note from us to your mom or your boss,

863
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: singing your praises, and this week that goes to Marshall.

864
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: And because we don't want Rob in second place to

865
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 1: feel bad, we'll be mailing you a pterodactyl tope bag,

866
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: the cheapest tope bag we could find online with the

867
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: pterodactyl on it. Thank you both for playing. Thanks guys

868
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: for being on a part time genius. This was a

869
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Thanks. So we talked about the popular

870
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: Divine Rand's novels and her later nonfiction writing. But what

871
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: would you say of her lasting impact? Well, there's no

872
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: question she's made millions of people think and over the

873
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: past couple of decades, after a big economic downturn and

874
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: the emergence of the Tea Party and other conservative movements,

875
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: she certainly enjoyed a resurgence. But I wonder how many

876
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: politicians will continue to claim Rand as a major influence

877
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: as more and more things have come out about her,

878
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: like her open marriage, the fact that she advocated for abortions,

879
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 1: her absolute detest of religion. I mean, she hated Reagan

880
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: because he sold her theories to the masses by tethering

881
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: them to religion. It just gets hard to embrace her publicly. Yeah,

882
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about. I mean, you used to

883
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: hear politicians like Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford talking about

884
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: being heavily inspired by Rand. I think Ryan even said

885
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: he made her books required reading for all of his interns,

886
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: and that he read the books a few times a year.

887
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: But what it feels like we're seeing now as politicians

888
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: acknowledging that Rand simply got them thinking about the world

889
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: and how to live in it, you know, more in

890
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: their teenage years. In fact, some of her early editors

891
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: say as much. She had one quite liberal editor who

892
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: said he loved her work and was happy to publish

893
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: it because it was great young adult fiction. It makes young,

894
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: disenfranchised teens embrace their independent qualities and reframes them as heroes.

895
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: And of course these are oversimplified ideas that people could

896
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: overcome almost any adversity just through hard work and intelligence,

897
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: and that everyone is either sorted into people who produce

898
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: or people who leach. Journalist Nora Ephron wrote about her

899
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: experience with Brand and specifically her reading of The fountain Head,

900
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 1: and said she loved the book as an eighteen year old,

901
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: but that she really missed the point and that quote

902
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: it's a better read when one is young enough to

903
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: miss the point, Otherwise one cannot help but thinking it's

904
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: a very silly book. So it does feel like now

905
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: you hear more politicians acknowledging that they had a Rand phase,

906
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: and both Paul Ryan and Mark Sandford have said in

907
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: more recent years that they reject her overall philosophy for

908
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: its lack of compassion. And in a day when it's

909
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: like much easier to know the full story of someone's writings,

910
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: it's harder for someone to quote one part of Rand's

911
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: philosophy without someone else quickly pointing out, well, did you

912
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: know she said this terrible thing or that terrible thing.

913
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all out there on the internet right now,

914
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Web now here. It's gonna be big. It is,

915
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: and I don't think either of us are suggesting that

916
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: iron Rand won't continue to find an audience. There are

917
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: definitely several businesses that have been named after Rand, and

918
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: you know, as we saw as we were doing our

919
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: research for the episode on tax havens, there are a

920
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: lot of yachts and even construction companies in the Cayman's

921
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 1: name for her. So while politicians and other public figures

922
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: may not be quite as quick to get behind iron Rand,

923
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: there is one thing we should all be able to

924
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: get behind. What's that the fact that no show could

925
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: be complete without the part time genius fact on Let's

926
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: do it M So I'm gonna start. Did you know

927
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: Iron Rand was a massive Charlie's Angel fan. Yeah, she

928
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: never missed an episode, and she was actually also obsessed

929
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: with Agatha Christie books, though she only liked Herkuele Poirot

930
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: and not miss Marvel, mainly because she wasn't a feminist.

931
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: All right. Well, iron Ran was so afraid of being

932
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: kidnapped that she refused to take planes. She only traveled

933
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: by trains, and sometimes the people who sponsored her speeches

934
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: would have a personal rail car added to a train

935
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: to transport her. I know, I always ask for an

936
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: extra rail car anytime I give this stretch. So she

937
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: was also paranoid about losing her manuscripts, and when Atlas

938
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: Shrug was being written, she would often put the text

939
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: in her briefcase, then handcuffed to her husband when they

940
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: went out. All right, Well, every year, four hundred thousand

941
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: copies of Rand's novels are given free to Advance Placement

942
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: high school programs. They're paid for by the iron Ran Institute,

943
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: whose director yarrown Brook said the mission was to keep

944
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 1: Rand alive. That's so, for all her talk of hating charity,

945
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: she actually did some nice things for people, Like she

946
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: paid for Frank's niece to go to college, and one

947
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: time she sent stamps to kids of a family she'd

948
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: met because she knew the kids were stamp collectors. And

949
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: of course, her rationale for all of that was the

950
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 1: charity shouldn't be a zero sum game. She only helped

951
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: people if she thought she was getting something for that money.

952
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: It's almost like she had to rationalize like giving because

953
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: it was against everything she wrote about. Wow. Well, the

954
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: only instance I could find of iron Ran admitting she

955
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: had made a mistake was with one of her followers.

956
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: She was having an affair with so Iron set down

957
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: with her husband the guy's wife the guy, and she

958
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: told them it was selfish of them and immoral of

959
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: them not to let Iron and the guy have an affair.

960
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: Her terms were that the affair would take place a

961
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: few days a week for maybe two years, and the

962
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: mistakes she admitted was that she should have presented it

963
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: as a longer term. That's ridiculous. So did you know

964
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: that Alan Greenspan was one of her groupies, so he

965
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: took her to meet President Ford in Washington when he

966
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: was sworn into a new physician. Also, Greenspan was constantly

967
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: telling her she should put her money in the stock market,

968
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: but she refused. She just kept in a bank account.

969
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: So at the end of her day, she didn't have

970
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: nearly as much money as she could have, which is

971
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: odd for a capitalist. So maybe that's why she took

972
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: socially curity at the end of her life. What i'n

973
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: ran was on Social Security. Yeah, I mean, she was

974
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: philosophically against it, but her lawyer basically told her she

975
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: needed the money for her illnesses. And I'm told her

976
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: to make decisions but not to tell her about them.

977
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: That's so disappointing, but it is a great fact. So

978
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to seed this round to you. Thank you, um.

979
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: And before we finally sign off, we've got to announce

980
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: our addition to the Hall of Genius. UM. You know,

981
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: I was so influenced by i'm Rand's philosophy and absolute

982
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: selfishness this week that I thought we should give the

983
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: award to ourselves. So dumb, I think it's just you

984
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: being lazy. Yeah, definitely. I'm equal parts producer and mucher now,

985
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: so also I'm officially a genius. Good job. Well that

986
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: sounds pretty dubious. But that's it for this week's Part

987
00:49:44,600 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: Time Genius. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for

988
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure to subscribe wherever

989
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts, And because we're a brand

990
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: new show, if you're feeling extra generous, we'd love it

991
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: if you give us a rating on Apple Podcast. Part

992
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: Time Genius is produced by some of our favorite geniuses.

993
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: It's edited by Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing

994
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: by Noel Brown. Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our

995
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: research team is Gabe Bluesier, Lucas Adams, Autum white Field, Madronto,

996
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: Austin Thompson and Meg Robbins. Jason Hoke is our chief cheerleader.