Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. Well,
Speaker 1: Hey there, movie Crushers. Uh, it's me nol Um. You
Speaker 1: might be a little surprised to hear me at the
Speaker 1: beginning of a Friday Interview episode. UM. But Chuck and
Speaker 1: I had the wonderful privilege of being able to sit
Speaker 1: down with John Cameron Mitchell UM from Hedwig and the
Speaker 1: Angry Inch, the creator and star of the Broadway show,
Speaker 1: very very influential film and director of things like short
Speaker 1: Bus and UM the incredible audio podcast Psychedelic Adventure UM
Speaker 1: Anthem Homunculous, which you can get on the Luminary Network.
Speaker 1: But Chuck had a family situation come up, and so
Speaker 1: I ended up bufflying solo with Chuck's blessing. So UM.
Speaker 1: I met John last year through some podcast activities and UM.
Speaker 1: Hedwig was always a really really important movie for me
Speaker 1: when I was younger on college, and I watched it
Speaker 1: many many times, and so to get to meet him
Speaker 1: and not only meet kind of one of my film heroes,
Speaker 1: but also have him be just the most lovely, down
Speaker 1: to earth sweet man I've ever met in my entire life,
Speaker 1: and essentially we kind of became pals and he sat
Speaker 1: down with me and we talked about his movie Crush Nashville,
Speaker 1: the Robert Altman epic kind of slice of life film
Speaker 1: that I had never seen, had really only seen Um
Speaker 1: A Prairie Home Companion and Mash. So it as kind
Speaker 1: of as we talked about in the interview at the
Speaker 1: beginning and the end of Altman's career, but hugely influential filmmaker.
Speaker 1: Informed looked like Paul Thomas Anderson in this very naturalistic
Speaker 1: style of filmmaking. And we get into all that in
Speaker 1: the interview. So I won't bore you here at the top.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. I mean, I grew up with
Speaker 1: you know, super sci fi fantasy comic kid in the seventies,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I was sort of an advanced
Speaker 1: student in in Junction City, Kansas, where my podcast Anthem
Speaker 1: takes place. Uh. The nun didn't know what to do
Speaker 1: with me because I was too advanced in my studies,
Speaker 1: so she just put me. I was. I had a
Speaker 1: class alone with the meanest nun in school. Wow. She
Speaker 1: let me read whatever I want and then report on it.
Speaker 1: So I just read like Robert Heinlein and Dune and
Speaker 1: Andre Norton and wrote articles, aren't. She just like, there's
Speaker 1: no real literary value here. There's you know, there's interesting
Speaker 1: descriptive language, but these these types of books don't have
Speaker 1: literary value. And I was like, I was, you know, fourteen.
Speaker 1: I was like, they don't you know what was her
Speaker 1: concept of literary value? But people wanted me to win.
Speaker 1: She was so mean. She wanted me to win a competition,
Speaker 1: English competition, which which was basically all multiple choice. So
Speaker 1: if you had you would you know, Silas Marner, all
Speaker 1: the classics. You know, who's the protagonists of Silas Marner,
Speaker 1: who wrote you know, little women who wrote you know,
Speaker 1: as I lay dying. So but I never had to
Speaker 1: read the book. Yeah, I got burst in Kansas in
Speaker 1: in these you know, like knowing that the titles and
Speaker 1: the protagonists and the the writers, but never read one
Speaker 1: of those books. And she was like, yes, she was
Speaker 1: a very competitive nune who was like, we've destroyed the
Speaker 1: competition and never read a book. Now there's a character
Speaker 1: in your podcast that you're talking about anthem homunculous. That's
Speaker 1: a nun who I believe is your aunt and I
Speaker 1: have based on my aunt Terry, who is the coolest
Speaker 1: relative and aunt and none, uh who is like super
Speaker 1: liberal and you know, environmentalist and not a heroin atic
Speaker 1: though like heroin atic. She was a little embarrassed by that.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to see you next week when I
Speaker 1: sing Brian Weller in my song I See What I Am,
Speaker 1: which was pag Lapone's big song with the Jazz Orchestra.
Speaker 1: Reilly considered went to Mark Salas, Oh my gosh, that's
Speaker 1: that's a big deal. Next week, you say, well, it's
Speaker 1: the last two days of January, first day of February. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm in town next week. Maybe I can make
Speaker 1: that happen. I would love that. Um. Just backing up
Speaker 1: to Anthem and you know, you say it's set in
Speaker 1: your hometown of Junction City, ancient city. What was that
Speaker 1: like like? And you know, I know what it was
Speaker 1: like as it was portrayed in the podcast. What was
Speaker 1: that like for you? Aside from these solo classes with
Speaker 1: Sister and Um or Sister Frederick, now she was the headmistress.
Speaker 1: They had to take those male names. Um, there was
Speaker 1: a sense of you know, it was the seventies, so
Speaker 1: you didn't really know what was happening outside the world,
Speaker 1: and you know, punk was exploding elsewhere and we didn't
Speaker 1: know what that was. And the cars were you know,
Speaker 1: seemed the punkiest thing we had ever heard of. We
Speaker 1: get stone that was on the radio. Right, cars were
Speaker 1: in the radio, and uh, they were new right, they
Speaker 1: were the first new wave sort of hits, I guess
Speaker 1: in the US. Um So we get stoned and listened
Speaker 1: to moving in stereo at Milford Lake. Uh, and didn't
Speaker 1: know that there was a town under the lake because
Speaker 1: they had flooded, you know, when they fled the town
Speaker 1: to make a reservoir. And that became an image in
Speaker 1: our podcast. And so it was going back there and
Speaker 1: and remembering the weirdness of this small, high crime town
Speaker 1: next to an army base Fort Riley, which meant it
Speaker 1: was very racially mixed, which made it more fun. But
Speaker 1: it was still Kansas and it was so it was
Speaker 1: still kind of conservative. And you know my school St.
Speaker 1: Pius I, it was like fifteen graduating students, and you know,
Speaker 1: I went to the reunion the reunions, the most conservative
Speaker 1: saying I'm sorry that was that was St. Sainty's. St. Xavier. St.
Speaker 1: Pius was in Albuquerque. Verry went but he was a
Speaker 1: super conservative pope. Um, but say next was more easy going,
Speaker 1: and but it was always really it had this because
Speaker 1: of the army. Thing was like super racially mixed and
Speaker 1: there was all kinds of music was valid and people
Speaker 1: didn't separate themselves as much. So I went to my
Speaker 1: high school reunion only oncet anniversary. So I recommend if
Speaker 1: you're gonna, if you hate the idea of a reunion,
Speaker 1: go after your fifty because everyone's evened out, no one's
Speaker 1: You're not competitive anymore because you're alive, right, You're just
Speaker 1: like the great Ugiliser's time, And uh, it was beautiful
Speaker 1: and I was just remembering, you know, and like looking
Speaker 1: at the trailer park where Hedvig would have lived and
Speaker 1: an anthem. The character lives in the head Vig's trailer
Speaker 1: though has never met her, so it's all the same universe.
Speaker 1: And Brian Weller and I wrote the first draft in Lawrence, Kansas,
Speaker 1: which was in William Burrow's house. Um, because I knocked
Speaker 1: on the door on that first trip and the caretaker,
Speaker 1: Tom King was like, what it's like, I'm writing a
Speaker 1: musical that might takes place on this porch. He's like, alright,
Speaker 1: another one on it. Yeah, here's the bullet holes that
Speaker 1: Bills shot off from his bath into the roof. And
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, we in Burrows tiny house, big yard,
Speaker 1: and we uh we wrote there for about a month.
Speaker 1: James guire Holds, his partner invited us. And so the
Speaker 1: insanity of of Burrows, which really predicted the insanity of today.
Speaker 1: You know, if ever there was a Trump character, that
Speaker 1: ever there was a Burrows character, it would be Trump right,
Speaker 1: just beyond belief, right, absolutely proto fascist. You know, Burrows
Speaker 1: was right and cartoonish, even cartoonish, but you know, truly
Speaker 1: beyond belief and um so it was a perfect place
Speaker 1: to to set it and to start it. Uh. And
Speaker 1: we kind of did a road trip writing, writing a
Speaker 1: tour of it, and Burrows features relative of ly prominently
Speaker 1: into the show itself. There's a fantastic sound alike or
Speaker 1: a voice performance that really hits Burrows on the on
Speaker 1: the notes. Ben Foster, who actually played him in Killer
Speaker 1: Darlings the movie and it, wants to make a film
Speaker 1: that he's directing himself as Burrows in the prime years
Speaker 1: in Mexico and you know when he shot as a
Speaker 1: wife chair accident and that's I mean, that was one
Speaker 1: of my I love the whole thing and just uh
Speaker 1: I I got I got the particularly fun section. It's
Speaker 1: very fun. But I got the privilege to as actually
Speaker 1: sit and experience this podcast in one sitting um in
Speaker 1: New York and as at the the I f C
Speaker 1: Center where you did a listening party. That was the
Speaker 1: first for me for a listening party of an entire
Speaker 1: narrative podcast series. And that's really the way to experience
Speaker 1: a show like that, something that dense so you can
Speaker 1: really focus the sound. The five point one to a mix.
Speaker 1: We had some abstract visuals creative fourth that I think
Speaker 1: really worked, distributed CBD gummies and soft blankets and uh
Speaker 1: lavender face mists. So the whole thing was just the
Speaker 1: close sprit seen them in your face with her little
Speaker 1: dog peepee. Did I make that up? Pippie Peppy Pip Pip. Yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: Brian Weller's in the room, say hi, hello, my brilliant composer.
Speaker 1: Brilliant composer. Um, we're doing more of these marathons. I
Speaker 1: did learn in Austin. Yeah, anyone that has a chance
Speaker 1: that if the one of these comes through your town,
Speaker 1: check it out. And if not, get your Luminary subscription
Speaker 1: and check it out. It's a really, really wonderful show.
Speaker 1: Um So big Time influenced by your early days growing
Speaker 1: up in a small town and kind of how that
Speaker 1: informed the rest of your career. I really think it's
Speaker 1: interesting you think of a place like a small town
Speaker 1: in Kansas. You don't think it was being particularly progressive.
Speaker 1: But I love this idea of you kind of making
Speaker 1: your own culture and having access to things. But obviously
Speaker 1: there's no Internet, You're not able to find the latest thing.
Speaker 1: You kind of get it in little dribs and drabs. Right,
Speaker 1: So what was that like? And what when did you
Speaker 1: kind of break through beyond just the cars on the radio?
Speaker 1: And were there zines? Like? What was it that? Well?
Speaker 1: I was still you know, a good bull Catholic boy
Speaker 1: son of a general um queer you know, haning't hadn't
Speaker 1: quite dealt with it, But no, I would. I think
Speaker 1: being queer saved me from an examined life. I'd probably
Speaker 1: be more like the character you know in Anthem, you know,
Speaker 1: a librarian, still creative, but just maybe not taking any
Speaker 1: as many risks. Uh So, I really put down being
Speaker 1: queer to to to uh, forcing me to examine everything
Speaker 1: that I've been taught. If certain things I was taught
Speaker 1: we're clearly wrong, um, then others must have been wrong too.
Speaker 1: So that's it's like when you find out Santa Claus
Speaker 1: isn't the real is that? Does that mean Jesus isn't
Speaker 1: real too? Or there is no God? Make Here's a
Speaker 1: funny story of a friend of mine was his parents
Speaker 1: were kind of hippies and they sort of did as
Speaker 1: Santa things, Sure Santa. He was six and they were like, yes, Santa,
Speaker 1: but they were very casual about it, and they keep
Speaker 1: forgetting the plot and they kind of let it slip,
Speaker 1: you know, when he was six that you know, they're
Speaker 1: like right soon and he's like he he was like what,
Speaker 1: there's no Santa. And they were like, oh, well no,
Speaker 1: but that the spirit of gibbing. And he's like he
Speaker 1: was furious at six, and he went up to his
Speaker 1: room and he didn't speak to them for two days.
Speaker 1: And then he came back from school and they're like hi,
Speaker 1: and he goes, hi, because how was today? Fine? I
Speaker 1: have a new friend, Nathan. Oh great, that's great. I'm
Speaker 1: going up to my room. So every day they had
Speaker 1: to like get you know, apologized for the Santa next day,
Speaker 1: you're a little light today where we was playing with Nathan. Oh,
Speaker 1: Nathan to your new friend, we love to meet him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went up to the next day. Um, I'm going
Speaker 1: to stay asleep over with Nathan tonight. You are not.
Speaker 1: We need to meet Nathan and and his parents and
Speaker 1: and he goes there is no Nathan, only Zool and
Speaker 1: they were just wow, wow, he set the whole thing.
Speaker 1: There is no Nathan. How does it feel? That is
Speaker 1: an extreme reaction to not finding finding out that Santa
Speaker 1: Claus in the real I actually had a really great
Speaker 1: conversation with your friend Julian Costa you introduced me to.
Speaker 1: We're actually sitting here in Athens, Georgia right now by
Speaker 1: the way, Um Julian of Neutral Milk Hotel. You've got
Speaker 1: a lot of Athens connections, as as do I. But
Speaker 1: Um Julian really really loves the idea of Santa Clauses.
Speaker 1: It's a big thing for him. There's some Santa stuff
Speaker 1: here from uh where a Robbie Cocharo's house in Julian's band,
Speaker 1: the music tapes and orbiting him in circus, his podcast
Speaker 1: and I asked, Julian, you don't think it's the great
Speaker 1: betrayal when you find out that when you're when you
Speaker 1: find out your parents have been lying to you and
Speaker 1: that Santa is not real, and he goes, no, Santa
Speaker 1: is real. Santa is a spirit, you know, it isn't
Speaker 1: just because he's not a person that comes down to
Speaker 1: chimney doesn't mean he's not real. And he loves this
Speaker 1: idea of the spirit of Christmas, of giving and kindness
Speaker 1: and charity and all that. And it really like made
Speaker 1: me take a step back and kind of ditch that
Speaker 1: cynical view. Um, because there's a there's a sculpture up
Speaker 1: there of Santa with the halo and wings. Ye, he
Speaker 1: was a saint exactly. Yeah. So, um, I think that's
Speaker 1: a really interesting the two diametrically opposing stories about finding
Speaker 1: out that Santa is not real. But I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a dad and my kids eleven and she took it
Speaker 1: just fine. She kind of you know, I was worried
Speaker 1: that it was she was gonna go down that rabbit
Speaker 1: hole of will of Santa is not really you lying
Speaker 1: to me about literally everything. Um. We've moved past that. Um.
Speaker 1: So I like the idea of Anthem and head Vig
Speaker 1: having this kind of shared universe. You don't really lean
Speaker 1: into that too hard in this in the podcast, but
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about the genesis of of
Speaker 1: the head Vig character and the whole way that came
Speaker 1: about for you, head Vig. Uh Well, head Vig was
Speaker 1: based on a babysitter for our family who was, uh,
Speaker 1: I realized later was a prostitute on the side, and
Speaker 1: me and my friend Brenda would go to her trailer
Speaker 1: park and sing songs for her, and she had a
Speaker 1: lot of dates, um, and never knew what they were
Speaker 1: going to look like before they came over, and she
Speaker 1: we were she was like, we were like, she's so
Speaker 1: popular and she's not even that good looking, and she's
Speaker 1: just so And if they came up the driveway we had,
Speaker 1: we had to go at the back, but sometimes if
Speaker 1: she didn't like the look of them, she'd go out
Speaker 1: the back too with us. So she kind of was
Speaker 1: the initial visual and kind of you know, tone for
Speaker 1: the character um. And then we Stephen Trausk and I
Speaker 1: added a lot more you know to her, and we
Speaker 1: were we were both he was working and I was
Speaker 1: hanging out at a drag rock and roll drag club
Speaker 1: called Squeeze Box in the nineties at don Hills, and
Speaker 1: it was so it was the queer club I was
Speaker 1: wanted because it was just so punk and fun and
Speaker 1: and he said we should develop the musical we were writing.
Speaker 1: We should start with this female character who was a
Speaker 1: smaller character in the piece, Helga, who became head big,
Speaker 1: and I just thought about her more and more, and
Speaker 1: then the idea of the forced sex change and the
Speaker 1: Berlin stuff. My dad lived in Berlin for a while
Speaker 1: as a military commander, so all this stuff came together.
Speaker 1: And watching the amazing performers, you know, uh, Gene County
Speaker 1: and Mistress for Micah and Laverne Cox and these people
Speaker 1: who were performing there, these trans and drag performers who
Speaker 1: just blew me away. They were so punk and didn't
Speaker 1: even know it, you know. And uh, our first gig
Speaker 1: was was so exciting, and our first song was the
Speaker 1: Origin of Love that he wrote my favorite and um,
Speaker 1: it was the birth of it. And we try to
Speaker 1: keep it out of theaters for a while to keep
Speaker 1: it from getting toned down, you know, by a theater,
Speaker 1: and keep it in the clubs. So you did it
Speaker 1: as a band almost first we did it as gig
Speaker 1: fake you know gigs for fake band um and and
Speaker 1: we didn't have all the narrative pieces yet it did
Speaker 1: even the first even the first gig had a narrative
Speaker 1: story and I ripped the drag off at the end
Speaker 1: like I do in the show. And but we covered uh.
Speaker 1: We used cover songs for the songs we didn't have.
Speaker 1: So the song about the operation, we used Yoko Owner's
Speaker 1: Death of Samantha and for the another song we used
Speaker 1: oh well Fleetwood Mac was our opening song, boys keep
Speaker 1: Swinging half breed um, so it was like we rewrote
Speaker 1: the lyrics reckless Eric ho. Whole wide World was sort
Speaker 1: of about trying to, you know, get out of Berlin.
Speaker 1: Did you find that you ended up taking cues from
Speaker 1: some of those dialistically for the songs that you were Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like this is a song we have called Exquisitive Corpse,
Speaker 1: which is a real pair ubu like songs. So we
Speaker 1: used to do nine alignment packed uh had Vig had
Speaker 1: a Serbian boyfriend who was a DJ and she could
Speaker 1: pick up a show on her braces, So we had
Speaker 1: weird pair ubu TEP songs and you know, she was
Speaker 1: from East Berlin and wanted to be non alignment packed.
Speaker 1: You know, that was a song and so we all
Speaker 1: the people that we were learning from informed the music
Speaker 1: and the story. And that's why it's quite eclectic style wise. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean it's all kind of has that seventies you know,
Speaker 1: crunchy feeling, but there's country, there's you know, there's ballast.
Speaker 1: Character has that chameleonic quality as well, like the Looks
Speaker 1: and Anthem really followed on from that. It perhaps has
Speaker 1: a similar tone. You know, someone's talking to an audience,
Speaker 1: telling stories through songs humor. You know, there's a similar
Speaker 1: tone to Head Big. Uh. We wrote Anthem originally as
Speaker 1: a head Big sequel, but that was too much and uh,
Speaker 1: and it became more autobiographical. What would I be like
Speaker 1: if I never left Junction City? Um, and and and
Speaker 1: hold up in there and and got sick and had
Speaker 1: to crowdfund my my treatment. So you know, we're still
Speaker 1: doing more of these, uh, these marathons. We've got some
Speaker 1: coming up in Portland's l A and uh, San Francist
Speaker 1: go yeah yeah. Well again, if if one comes through
Speaker 1: your town, I highly recommend checking it out. I'd love
Speaker 1: to pivot to to Nashville. Um, I had never seen
Speaker 1: this particular Altman movie, and I'm not really a student
Speaker 1: of Altman. I've I've honestly only seen mash and a
Speaker 1: Prairie Home Companion, which is kind of embarrassing. That's like
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end, it is, right, And the
Speaker 1: funny thing is Nashville and Prairie Home Companion actually have
Speaker 1: a little bit in common in some ways, only because
Speaker 1: Prairie Home takes place behind the scenes in this big
Speaker 1: theater show and you kind of see all the lives
Speaker 1: of the different characters, the singers in their dressing rooms
Speaker 1: and all of that, and then everyone comes together in
Speaker 1: the end for the big show. Right, That's sort of
Speaker 1: what Nashville is, and there's all of these disparate characters
Speaker 1: in the city of Nashville going through their lives. I
Speaker 1: read Ebert wrote of it that you sort of were
Speaker 1: just plopped into this world where people don't make entrances
Speaker 1: as much as they just kind of exist. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think was so special about it. I almost
Speaker 1: I walked. I watched it with my girlfriend and I
Speaker 1: walked away from it. We were both kind of like,
Speaker 1: what is this movie about. And that's sort of the point.
Speaker 1: It's it's not. I mean, we could get into what
Speaker 1: it's about, but for me, I think that's exactly. It's
Speaker 1: open end that you can absolutely project yourself onto it.
Speaker 1: But um, it really is just like a slice of life.
Speaker 1: Is such a cliche thing to say, but that's really
Speaker 1: what it feels like. It feels like you're living with
Speaker 1: these real people, these real characters. UM. And I just
Speaker 1: I just was fascinated by it. This this massive ensemble
Speaker 1: cast um screen exactly, and like I think there's something
Speaker 1: like five speaking roles, but there's no star, there's no
Speaker 1: perspective character that is taking you on this journey. It's
Speaker 1: all of these things that didn't come together at the
Speaker 1: end for this big benefit concert at the end at
Speaker 1: the Parthenon right in Nashville. Um. This is what Ebert
Speaker 1: wrote about about this film, Robert Altman's Nashville, which was
Speaker 1: the best American movie since Bonnie and Clyde's in the
Speaker 1: relationships of nearly two dozen characters, a microcosm of who
Speaker 1: we were and what we were up to in the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. It's a film about the losers and the Winners,
Speaker 1: the Drifters and the Stars in Nashville, and the most
Speaker 1: complete expression yet of not only the genius but also
Speaker 1: the humanity of Altman, who sees people with his camera
Speaker 1: in such a way as to enlarge our own experience.
Speaker 1: That's like vintage Ebert from when it came out. Um,
Speaker 1: So why why Nashville? I saw it first in college
Speaker 1: in the early eighties at the giant Varsity Movie Palace
Speaker 1: and Evis in Illinois, and it. You know, there were
Speaker 1: certain films that that just intoxicated me. Um. That was
Speaker 1: the one that I remember the most. I just came
Speaker 1: It's long, you feel like you've lived it, you come
Speaker 1: out of it feeling kind of stoned. Um. It's incredibly
Speaker 1: funny and incredibly moving at the same time. And that's
Speaker 1: a nexus that I love to work in. Is that place?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna laugh for? I'm gonna cry? Um? And
Speaker 1: just the the audacity of you know, taking your time.
Speaker 1: I mean, even you know today, it's even more shocking
Speaker 1: to actually take your time. There's no frenetic editing in
Speaker 1: this You live you A lot of scenes are in
Speaker 1: one shot that zoom slowly. There's a classic Altman thing
Speaker 1: to do. Is to zoom very slowly and focus another.
Speaker 1: He uh pioneered multitrack recording, so he would have you know,
Speaker 1: body mics on dozens of people in one scene, and
Speaker 1: the actors never knew the camera was on them because
Speaker 1: the camera was so far away doing these long zooms
Speaker 1: on long lenses, so you've got a real sense of
Speaker 1: reality when he would tell people who was being shot,
Speaker 1: so they all were on it. They were all acting
Speaker 1: fully and improvising a lot with a very strong central
Speaker 1: script by Joan Sewksbury, who I even wrote a fan
Speaker 1: letter two back in the eighties when I was starting out,
Speaker 1: I centered my first script and and a cassette tape
Speaker 1: of the soundtrack of the song, which is amazing and
Speaker 1: it's a character in and of itself. The songs my
Speaker 1: script was because it had a feeling of Nashville and
Speaker 1: ah it was pre existing songs. But I she wrote back,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have time to read your script, but
Speaker 1: I'd like to keep the cassette to listen to. And
Speaker 1: I was at least she wrote back, that's pretty rare.
Speaker 1: Almost met her in recently New York. I was gonna, like,
Speaker 1: I want my setback, which um and so when I
Speaker 1: saw it, I was sitting alone and I just was drunk,
Speaker 1: you know, being an act studying acting in Northwestern it
Speaker 1: was just he's such Altman is such a lover of
Speaker 1: actors and demands them to be partners. Other directors, Cubrick
Speaker 1: and other geniuses used them as puppets, brilliant puppets. But
Speaker 1: it was all about Cubrick. Altman, I think had this
Speaker 1: theatrical feeling of like, we're all doing this together. And
Speaker 1: he he famously had, uh, the actors at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, the shooting day, watched the dailies from
Speaker 1: the day before and have drinks and get stoned and whatever.
Speaker 1: It was mates for a long day because you're shooting
Speaker 1: for twelve hours and then you're looking at the dailies
Speaker 1: and it was like this party. You know. All the
Speaker 1: actors who worked with them said it was just like
Speaker 1: being in a party. And the movie executives hated him
Speaker 1: because he was so you know, like fuck you, I'm
Speaker 1: doing it my way, like Cassavetti's well, he darned his
Speaker 1: stripes at this point with the hit, right like with
Speaker 1: Mash which was a weird, you know film that it
Speaker 1: only happened because they were doing something else and they
Speaker 1: let him do it without checking in on it. So
Speaker 1: when it came they forgot. Yeah, when it came to them,
Speaker 1: they're like, what the hell is this because it was
Speaker 1: really very loose, you know, it was closer to Easy
Speaker 1: Rider than anything else, and uh, it was a surprise hit,
Speaker 1: you know, it caught. He was an older generation, you know,
Speaker 1: more from the beatnick era, Uh, of the hippies, you know,
Speaker 1: which he wasn't, but he got with them, you know,
Speaker 1: like he they loved him because he was a true
Speaker 1: man of the people and a true anti authoritarian and
Speaker 1: u you know, even the weird kind of gaze thing
Speaker 1: in because remember they sort of pretend or they tell
Speaker 1: one of the characters that he's he's gay, so funk
Speaker 1: with him, and then they have like this this sort
Speaker 1: of living funeral fright, and it's like a very strange
Speaker 1: he's going to kill himself for being gay, but it's
Speaker 1: sort of a joke. It's weird to like, I meven
Speaker 1: the theme suicide is painless. That was the song, right,
Speaker 1: but what a strange I know. And it was a
Speaker 1: Korean War but obviously about Vietnam, so Nashville to me,
Speaker 1: was his chef dev you know, that was his great
Speaker 1: He made some great films, but to me, that's his best.
Speaker 1: And the actors. He could also take any actor. Excuse
Speaker 1: he could take any actor. It wasn't even an actor,
Speaker 1: you know, like uh, Lily Tomlin had was just more
Speaker 1: of a sketch comedian and he gave her this role
Speaker 1: that was quite low key, and she was brilliant. You know.
Speaker 1: It was a nominated for an Oscar and maybe one.
Speaker 1: And Keith Karadene, who was like the you know, the
Speaker 1: l a kind of folky, yeah, the cool, cool guy
Speaker 1: who was somewhat country but really more like the Eagles
Speaker 1: or something. And he's fucking everybody inside. And an amazing
Speaker 1: scene where he sings I'm easy to all these women
Speaker 1: who think he's singing to them directly, and then you
Speaker 1: find out it's Lily Tomlin and and Ned Beatty and
Speaker 1: it's just and this stripper Gwen Wells. Heartbreaking scene of
Speaker 1: these people trying to make it and let's let's let's
Speaker 1: go into that a little bit. I mean, to me,
Speaker 1: this is post Watergate. There's a political vibe. K. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's right. But but but there's this character
Speaker 1: who sort of looms large over the whole thing, this
Speaker 1: faceless presidential primary candidates never ross perote exactly. And what's
Speaker 1: what's the name of the character? U H, Philip Walker,
Speaker 1: I believe and maybe so yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: But all all you ever you hear from this character
Speaker 1: because his um campaign bus has these megaphones. You just
Speaker 1: here in pontificating. Whether it's him and live or it's recordings,
Speaker 1: you don't know, it doesn't really matter. But it's all
Speaker 1: about how politicians are corrupt. Um. They're all lawyers, they're
Speaker 1: all a bunch of crooks, you know, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: So there's that vibe, and then you're in Nashville, but
Speaker 1: it's very clear there's hippies in it. Jeff Goldblum plays
Speaker 1: this amazing. I refer to him as the magical Hippy
Speaker 1: because he doesn't speak, and he does this magic trick
Speaker 1: at the beginning where he like pours salt into his
Speaker 1: hand and then like pulls it out of the air
Speaker 1: and right, super skinny hippie kind of groupie character who's
Speaker 1: going who's only in town to see her dying aunt,
Speaker 1: but never manages to make it to see her in
Speaker 1: the high She selfish creature and she keeps getting distracted
Speaker 1: by celebrity and chasing guys. And her uncle is played
Speaker 1: by Keenan Wyn. Is it I think? So? Who's touching?
Speaker 1: You know? His his wife has just died and he's
Speaker 1: in the hospital and he's trying to reach out to
Speaker 1: people nearby. It's a beautifully interwoven story. Someone feels like
Speaker 1: kind of like a tapestry or a or the loom
Speaker 1: that makes the tapestry because you see the characters one
Speaker 1: ending in and out of each other, bumping into each other.
Speaker 1: You know. There's the African American country singer based on
Speaker 1: Charlie Pride, you know, Henry Gibson, Uh, who I love
Speaker 1: by He means maybe like this horrible you know, old
Speaker 1: school kind of racist, you know, power broker. He's kind
Speaker 1: of the old guard though. He's the first guy you
Speaker 1: see in the movie where they're making this bicentennial song
Speaker 1: in the studio um live to tape, which is super
Speaker 1: cool because you see the background singers in one booth
Speaker 1: in the band and he yells at the hippie piano
Speaker 1: player get a haircut. You don't belong in Nashville. So
Speaker 1: he's kind of the old guard. Then you've got Keith
Speaker 1: Carratty and who's sort of this like more hippie type
Speaker 1: folk singer. He's kind of the new guard. And there's
Speaker 1: this interesting clash, Like Nashville is this microcosm of what's
Speaker 1: going on with that clash between old and new. And
Speaker 1: I think a big part of it too is sort
Speaker 1: of the banality of evil in the entertainment industry, where
Speaker 1: people are sort of treated like ponds. Even what is it,
Speaker 1: Barbara Um, the kind of ailing country singer Ronnie Blakely. Yes,
Speaker 1: what's her character's name, It's Barbara. She's amazed, she's incredible,
Speaker 1: but like from the moment you see her, you know
Speaker 1: she's not well, and yet she's like kind of propped
Speaker 1: up and pushed out on stage and you know, you
Speaker 1: barely even get to hear her sing. And there's a
Speaker 1: part where she is performing and it's clearly, you know,
Speaker 1: having some kind of episode and she's like talking about
Speaker 1: her grandma and all this stuff, and her manager or
Speaker 1: whatever kind of pulls her off and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not not done, you know, but it's very clear
Speaker 1: that she's become a liability. You know the club I
Speaker 1: did head to begin this drag. Queeniam Sherry Vine, who
Speaker 1: I love, did a recreation of that scene where Barbara
Speaker 1: Jeane is starting a song and then like digressing and like,
Speaker 1: you know, I used to live on a farm and
Speaker 1: the chickens. I'm just kind of going insane. I mean,
Speaker 1: the song starts and then stops and starts, but she's
Speaker 1: doing like hearts, you know, crazy on You I think
Speaker 1: was the song she did, but you know, only a
Speaker 1: couple of us recognize what she was actually doing from
Speaker 1: But then she has this nemesis who's like the more
Speaker 1: gussied up version of her, kind of Karen Black more
Speaker 1: than willing to swoop in and capitalize on her, you know,
Speaker 1: not doing very well. Connie Connie White played by Karen Black.
Speaker 1: And the other great thing is that Altman asked each
Speaker 1: actor to write their own songs, So Karen Black wrote
Speaker 1: her own song, you know like a rolling Stone, and
Speaker 1: Uh Ronnie Blakely, who was a country singer from Montana,
Speaker 1: I think or Idaho. Uh hadn't really acted and she's
Speaker 1: brilliant again. Nominated for an Oscar. She has an incredible
Speaker 1: breakdown scenes. Alan Garfield has horrible, her horrible manager you
Speaker 1: know again prop and her up. She's sort of a
Speaker 1: Lauretto Land type but falling apart. Um. My favorite song
Speaker 1: is probably Dues, one of her song but he Carroteen
Speaker 1: wrote I'm Easy, which one an Oscar. You know, everyone
Speaker 1: wrote their own songs which you can feel it and
Speaker 1: sang them all live, which is also very new and rare. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, that Keith Carroting song. Winning that Oscar got
Speaker 1: him a record deal, and then he went on and
Speaker 1: made a couple of records for Asylum. But he it
Speaker 1: wasn't just a flash in the pan kind of like
Speaker 1: you know, Vanity Project, like he obviously had some chops.
Speaker 1: Is a good singer, good songwriter. Um, I have that
Speaker 1: record and it's it's quite good. Um. You mentioned the
Speaker 1: scene with the stripper, who I actually didn't realize was
Speaker 1: a stripper until a little later in the movie. I
Speaker 1: just thought she was kind of a wanna be because
Speaker 1: she's a pretty bad singer. She wasn't want to because
Speaker 1: they forced her to strip member, for sure, But I
Speaker 1: realized there's a conversation she has at the end where
Speaker 1: I almost feel like she's meant to be a sex worker.
Speaker 1: Because she's talking to a guy who seems like he's
Speaker 1: maybe her pimp, and he's saying, honey, you're a bad singer,
Speaker 1: like let it go, give it up, you know, and
Speaker 1: she just is so plucky and like full of confidence
Speaker 1: that she doesn't see it. But that scene, to um,
Speaker 1: the way women are treated in this film is seems
Speaker 1: very intentional on Almond's part to be like they're if
Speaker 1: they can't sing or they're not sexualized, then they're like marginalized.
Speaker 1: And even Lily Tomlin's character, who's kind of I would say,
Speaker 1: the moral center of the film because she has deaf
Speaker 1: deaf children and she's obviously a really devout mother. She
Speaker 1: is a gospel singer, so I think that's not unintentional, right,
Speaker 1: but she really sells it, you know, and gives it
Speaker 1: at all. And um, there's that scene when Keith Carrotyan
Speaker 1: sings I'm Easy and they kind of lock eyes, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, why is she so into this guy? He's
Speaker 1: kind of the heel, like he's a womanizer and he's
Speaker 1: sleeping with people and then calling up the next woman
Speaker 1: that he's gonna sleep with, you know, from the room,
Speaker 1: and then oh my god, she went to bed with them.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand that seemed like it. It was meant
Speaker 1: to imply that everyone's no one's beyond corruption, you know.
Speaker 1: In this uh, in this world, it's a beautiful it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful world. And he has his work, his repertory
Speaker 1: company of actors that you see in many of his
Speaker 1: film Frederick Forrest and Ned Beatty and even Julie Christie
Speaker 1: shows up and and Elliott Gould herself. Yeah, it's hilarious
Speaker 1: scene where he shows up and Geraldine Chaplin, Uh, Charlie
Speaker 1: Chaplin's daughter, who was also a kind of a narrator.
Speaker 1: She's like a BBC you know, I love her, ridiculous
Speaker 1: BBC journalists. Just see where she's walking through like a
Speaker 1: scrapyard and saying the rest on the cars look like
Speaker 1: dried blood. It's over the top. It's it's it's so
Speaker 1: juicy and delicious. Um. It must have been a blast
Speaker 1: to shoot and it it has a kind of when
Speaker 1: you you talked about what is it about? I mean
Speaker 1: to me, it all comes down to that last scene
Speaker 1: when Barbara Jeane is doing the fundraiser and uh a,
Speaker 1: you know a character that has been sort of shadowy. Um,
Speaker 1: the guitar case. Yeah. Uh, it turns out to be
Speaker 1: a killer, you know, and a stalker and and she
Speaker 1: is assassinated. You know, it's not a spoiler. I mean
Speaker 1: it's very much leading up to this. And then the
Speaker 1: plucky I want to be played by Barbara Harris, not
Speaker 1: the different one who kind of you see, trying to
Speaker 1: get backstage and she's held up. And Barbara Harris was
Speaker 1: a great, you know, seventies star who just recently died.
Speaker 1: Um plays a menially minibally talented, you know, country singer
Speaker 1: and she, you know, as Barbara Jeane goes down, they're like,
Speaker 1: keep the music going to, you know, so there's no panic.
Speaker 1: And she grabs the mic and sings the song, which
Speaker 1: is the center of metaphorically the whole piece, which is
Speaker 1: you know, the courses. You may say that I ain't free,
Speaker 1: but it don't worry me, and that is America. You know.
Speaker 1: We scream about this freedom and it changes meaning. You know,
Speaker 1: conservatives will say you're not free unless your health care
Speaker 1: is taken away from you. You know, are you you
Speaker 1: know the definition of freedom is so malleable in our
Speaker 1: country that you know, plutocrats use it to keep people
Speaker 1: under you know, it's like, you're not free if you
Speaker 1: actually get anything. Uh, if you get free education, you're
Speaker 1: not free. And you know it's like, but we also
Speaker 1: were based on a kind of freedom. So other things
Speaker 1: came out of America. There are we're very useful to
Speaker 1: the world, you know, ideas of of female emancipation and
Speaker 1: queer rights and and you know, finding civil rights came
Speaker 1: out of this crazy stew you know, a country founded
Speaker 1: by capitalist can keys to doors and religious fanatics, you know,
Speaker 1: who pushed the native people out, crushed it, broaden slaves,
Speaker 1: and then weirdly created a place that was a beacon
Speaker 1: for other countries of self determination. You know, it's a
Speaker 1: weird kind of contradiction. Yeah, we're a strange country. And
Speaker 1: I feel that that film captures so much of it,
Speaker 1: but effortlessly, it doesn't. It's not cloying in any kind
Speaker 1: of that, you know, it's you have to kind of
Speaker 1: bring that to it yourself. And I I knew there
Speaker 1: was something to it, and I read a little more
Speaker 1: about it and realized I was on the right track.
Speaker 1: And but it's more of a feeling than some sort
Speaker 1: of lesson. Yeah, that's what I think is so special.
Speaker 1: It's like it's really you feel like you've lived it
Speaker 1: rather than told anything, you know, a subtle moment of
Speaker 1: you know, the Black Country singer based on Charlie Pride
Speaker 1: at the Old Operation. Yeah, and then he said the
Speaker 1: racetrack or something, and Henry Gibson was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: had great to see you. And then under his breath
Speaker 1: he goes, you know, you're lucky to be alive here,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like it's just like that other
Speaker 1: you know, the darkness under the southern the southern end
Speaker 1: of the r under the hospitality, and but also very loving.
Speaker 1: Of course, Nashville itself hated the movie once again. Of
Speaker 1: course they were just like, oh, dare you you know,
Speaker 1: out satirize us? You know, you damn California people. That's
Speaker 1: the thing that it doesn't even strike me as satirical.
Speaker 1: It strikes me as very real and it feels very tender.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't think of it as making fun
Speaker 1: of these people. You know. It's definitely has satirical elements
Speaker 1: and crazy, you know, madness about it, but you love everybody,
Speaker 1: you know in one way or another. Yeah, it's interesting
Speaker 1: to the kind of want to be that that sings
Speaker 1: that that last song. I found her delivery to almost
Speaker 1: have this unhinged kind of more punk rock modern quality,
Speaker 1: when a lot of the vocals had been very old
Speaker 1: school and smooth and like that kind of real traditional
Speaker 1: country and Western style. She almost brought more of like
Speaker 1: a belty, kind of like rawness to it. And I
Speaker 1: thought was on purpose, I really didn't think, because it
Speaker 1: was like this is the future, you know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: She was an opportunist. Obviously, she was a you know,
Speaker 1: a Broadway singer herself, but there is something very weird
Speaker 1: about that the way she sings it, and it's and
Speaker 1: then it just yeah, yeah, it's incredible. The soundtrack is,
Speaker 1: like you said, is an amazing thing in and of
Speaker 1: itself because so much of it is sung live, and
Speaker 1: somehow it was a hit. Pauline Kale, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of saved it. You know. She was so influential, and
Speaker 1: the studio, I believe, was going wanted to cut the
Speaker 1: hell out of it because it's three hours long, and
Speaker 1: uh Altman slipped her or screened her his cut, so
Speaker 1: she reviewed it before it came out and in effect
Speaker 1: stopped the studio from cutting it. Interesting. She was that
Speaker 1: influenced imagine like giving it to a critic before it
Speaker 1: come I mean the sun. I was furious, but it
Speaker 1: made it a huge hit. Too. Smart on Altman's part,
Speaker 1: he kind of knew what he had. Yeah, My favorite
Speaker 1: filmmakers of the seventies were Altman, Cassavetti's hal Ashby, and Kubrick.
Speaker 1: And they all drove everybody crazy, you know, in the business.
Speaker 1: But of course the actors and his collaborators loved them.
Speaker 1: I don't know if people loved Kubrick. Act Chilly Devol
Speaker 1: had problems with him. Well, he does infamously made people
Speaker 1: do whereas all of men they're talking about it's a
Speaker 1: party because it all feels very true to life, and
Speaker 1: there weren't that man takes right. Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Kubrick was. But he he drove, you know, the powers
Speaker 1: of be crazy. Of course. But and they often wrote,
Speaker 1: you know, they often made very it is idios and
Speaker 1: cratic films that were long and you know, didn't fit
Speaker 1: into the realm of you know, marketing. And but you know,
Speaker 1: among my top films, they came from that era, you know.
Speaker 1: And there was a woman under the influence was Catcha.
Speaker 1: Vetti's great film, um being there, you know, his favorite.
Speaker 1: I know that was going to be one of your picks.
Speaker 1: We actually somebody else just did that one? Did they
Speaker 1: such an under sung film? Um? Of course he did
Speaker 1: Harold Maud and Champoo two and Last Detail, which I love.
Speaker 1: Um In Kubrick's you know, wonderful, you know, very strange,
Speaker 1: amoral panopally of of films. I think maybe Dr Strangelove
Speaker 1: is my favorite. UM. I love Lolita too. That doesn't
Speaker 1: get a lot of love, but I think that's great. Um.
Speaker 1: And Cassavetti's who went his own way and inspired all
Speaker 1: of them, you know, because he got started in the fifties,
Speaker 1: is some people to describe him as, you know, the
Speaker 1: beginning of independent filmmaking in this country. He was inspired
Speaker 1: by the New Wave and Shadows and Faces and uh,
Speaker 1: eventually his great films, Women and the Influence and Opening
Speaker 1: Night we're ones that I keep coming back to. So
Speaker 1: how the hell did he do that? You know? And
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with working with
Speaker 1: the same people, you know, keeping you know, keeping people
Speaker 1: off balance, but in a safe way, you know, to
Speaker 1: get some the most surprising performances. And have you seen
Speaker 1: Uncut Gems. Yet yes, they the Softie Brothers have a
Speaker 1: similar thing where they kind of just let their actors go.
Speaker 1: They don't they read son interview or heard an interview
Speaker 1: on a podcast where they say they don't yell cut
Speaker 1: an action. They just kind of set the pieces in
Speaker 1: motion and then let him go. And the actor is
Speaker 1: no win to start. And there's so much, again like
Speaker 1: with Altman, stuff going on on top of itself, like
Speaker 1: in the Gem Shop, where there's so much real hubbub
Speaker 1: and excitement and people talking over each other, And that
Speaker 1: to me really reminded me of of the al Man
Speaker 1: And I clearly Altman was a huge influence on Paul
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson and Magnolia, And when Altman was ailing, Paul
Speaker 1: helped direct his last helped direct a little bit on
Speaker 1: Perierus remember that. But I love I love Paul's work too,
Speaker 1: and the way he works with actors, and so I
Speaker 1: learned from all of them. When I was making my films,
Speaker 1: you know, I was, you know, I at the Sundance Lab.
Speaker 1: I broke down that scene with Lily tomin and and
Speaker 1: I'm Easy that song, broke it down into story boards. Um,
Speaker 1: that was part of you know, training to to direct
Speaker 1: heed vic um. Breaking down a scene that that you
Speaker 1: love and seeing how how the pieces work is a
Speaker 1: really great exercise. And the way they both worked worked
Speaker 1: with actors. I did uh work my own version of
Speaker 1: a mixture of improv paraphrasing and a set verbatim script
Speaker 1: which I used most in my film. Short Bus has
Speaker 1: a lot of non actors as well, right or or
Speaker 1: less experienced actors, and you know, Shortbus has a bit
Speaker 1: of a Nashville feeling. You know, there's a must you know,
Speaker 1: multiple protagonists and who bump into each other and and
Speaker 1: all periodically an event brings them together, you know, and
Speaker 1: now shield the two there's three events where all the
Speaker 1: characters are in the same space with whether they know
Speaker 1: each other or not. The beginning when they're all arriving
Speaker 1: in the air in the airport. There's the traffic jam
Speaker 1: from the airport, which is a hilarious situation where they're
Speaker 1: all stuck in a you know, in a crash on
Speaker 1: an interstate and they all just start making music and
Speaker 1: drinking and whatever. And then the end, which is the
Speaker 1: big benefit concert when they all converge. So with short As,
Speaker 1: I did the same you know, there's a salon where
Speaker 1: they all come there's the blackout New York City blackout,
Speaker 1: when they all come back together at the end. Um.
Speaker 1: So these acts of God or Goddess, you know, forces
Speaker 1: them all to come together and find what they have
Speaker 1: in common. Um. So those those films were very herald
Speaker 1: Maud as well. Um, we're very influential on on my
Speaker 1: three films Head Big, short Us and How to talk
Speaker 1: to girls at parties. Um. Rabbit Hole was a more
Speaker 1: traditional thing. But even the way I work with the
Speaker 1: actors uh was similar. You know. With my films, I
Speaker 1: would write the scenes very clearly, but with short Us,
Speaker 1: I'd say, you can never learn your lines. I'll fire
Speaker 1: you if you learn your lines. So if there were
Speaker 1: ten lines in a scene and after the fifth line,
Speaker 1: someone pours a glass of water, they still had to
Speaker 1: do ten lines. But every take we did, they had
Speaker 1: to do those lines differently. They had to paraphrase them.
Speaker 1: You know, with less experienced actors, the danger is always
Speaker 1: that they they lose it after a take or two
Speaker 1: because they're trying to recreate something. But if they can
Speaker 1: do it differently every time, there's always a flow. They
Speaker 1: still for editing stake have to after that fifth line
Speaker 1: pour the water or leave at the certain points. So
Speaker 1: that helps the editing. But um, and often we'd use
Speaker 1: two cameras and so I learned a lot of that
Speaker 1: from from Altman. Well, John, I could talk movies with
Speaker 1: you for for hours. But Alas, I think we should
Speaker 1: wrap this up. But we've been doing a thing. Actually
Speaker 1: I think Chuck stopped doing it, but I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: it with you. To wrap this one up, we ask
Speaker 1: our guests what their movie going rituals are. I know
Speaker 1: you're a movie fanatic, do you what's your theater in
Speaker 1: New York? Well, we have a lot of great theaters
Speaker 1: in New York, which is you know Within, you know,
Speaker 1: Spinning Distances, Film Form, the Quad, the Metrograph, you know,
Speaker 1: even Lincoln Center. There's just i f C Center. There's
Speaker 1: just a million, um and some things you do need
Speaker 1: to see in a theater. I watch a lot at
Speaker 1: home in my day and TV and you know, good
Speaker 1: sound system, so um, will you know I love movie
Speaker 1: nights too, and those are always fun to get the
Speaker 1: cookier ones like that. Recently we watched a crazy film
Speaker 1: called Slither. You heard of that horror sci fi thing.
Speaker 1: James Cohn, Sally Kellerman. It was like a strange little
Speaker 1: road comedy from the seventies is another one ever more recently,
Speaker 1: and there's also just another film. Um but it's a
Speaker 1: weird odd but it's just so fun And some things
Speaker 1: you just need to see in the screen because they
Speaker 1: require that. Nashville is one, I think because it's such
Speaker 1: wide frames. You it's great. You want to see it
Speaker 1: on a big giant screen. UM Metrograph is a place
Speaker 1: that I've been really wanting to Brian and I actually
Speaker 1: tried to go, UM but I forget in New York
Speaker 1: for the you know kind of limited run stuff like that,
Speaker 1: it sells out. It's a yeah, it's a small dude.
Speaker 1: I saw, you know, one of the after Nashville, he
Speaker 1: did try to do similar films with multiple casts shortcuts
Speaker 1: is great. A Wedding is another one that people don't
Speaker 1: think about much that I really like. It doesn't quite
Speaker 1: have the depth of Nashville, but it's incredible, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to comic madness in a Crazy Wedding. Um. Carol
Speaker 1: Burnett is great, and this is my favorite line from
Speaker 1: that is she's like having an illicit affair at the
Speaker 1: wedding and and you know the other married persons like
Speaker 1: Carol or whatever name is, Carol, will you? Will you,
Speaker 1: you know, have an affair with me? You know? Will you?
Speaker 1: Actually she's like trying not to throw up and it's
Speaker 1: all very new for her, and he goes, Carol, what's
Speaker 1: your answer right now? Your mouth is the most important
Speaker 1: opening in your body for me? Like that line. Um.
Speaker 1: Also Health, which is a disaster. That's his worst film,
Speaker 1: which is that a health food convention? Take cabots in it?
Speaker 1: I think is a fun disaster. It's just not funny.
Speaker 1: But I saw a print of it. Who did Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan hated Health? Um? You know he also said ketchup
Speaker 1: was a vegetable for school lunches. I think our current
Speaker 1: president might think that as well. Um. But I did
Speaker 1: see a metrograph of a print of Health, which is
Speaker 1: very hard to find, and it was like, it's kind
Speaker 1: of cool prints. You know, they start to go they
Speaker 1: get to go bad, and they become pink. That's when
Speaker 1: you know it's an old print. Its like it's very
Speaker 1: thin and everything's painting. So but it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: I saw a print of Bad Lieutenants with Harvey Kitel
Speaker 1: at the Nighthawk uh in Brooklyn, which I really like
Speaker 1: a lot. And that movie is, you know, from the nineties,
Speaker 1: but you know the quality of what New York looked
Speaker 1: like in the nineties first of all. Plus the wear
Speaker 1: on the print made it look like it was shot
Speaker 1: in the seventies. The whole vibe of it was seventiesive madman.
Speaker 1: Where do you like to sit in the theater? What's
Speaker 1: your given? Your druthers? Are you up? It's a forn film.
Speaker 1: I'll actually go very close because I hate I like
Speaker 1: to slump down when I'm watching and then the subtitles
Speaker 1: of this Somebody's Head there. You know. Film form has
Speaker 1: these really long theaters, which I don't like the length
Speaker 1: of them, but I'll have to still have to go
Speaker 1: out really close. The screen is small there, so if
Speaker 1: you go up close, it feels like you're the zig
Speaker 1: felt um, you know. If it's a bigger place with
Speaker 1: a nice rake to the seating, I'll just sit, you know,
Speaker 1: in that first row with an you know, a lateral aisle,
Speaker 1: so you have anyone in front of I just don't
Speaker 1: like anyone in front of me, and I like to
Speaker 1: put my feet up to Are you a snacker? No,
Speaker 1: because I don't like the crunching and the my own
Speaker 1: what I've brought my own fiber pills or something, but
Speaker 1: decided popcorn was the thing in a theater. It's the
Speaker 1: loudest food. Not only that food, John, because it gets
Speaker 1: stuck in your teeth in the worst possible way. It's
Speaker 1: not even that satisfying. I don't know whose idea that was.
Speaker 1: I think it was a byproduct of like the corn industry,
Speaker 1: like we need to figure out a new way to
Speaker 1: sell this stuff. You know, well it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: the anti carb time and you know it's a lot
Speaker 1: of fiber. Please please that Someone in the theater who
Speaker 1: worked there in Portland he told me, and I agree
Speaker 1: that if the screen of whatever theater you're in were
Speaker 1: to fall towards the audience, you would want to be
Speaker 1: in the road that is right like one behind where
Speaker 1: the top of it would be. That's the perfect place
Speaker 1: to say. That would be the best vantage point of
Speaker 1: view this disaster, is what you're saying. Oh oh, I see,
Speaker 1: but still you know, would also you would just miss
Speaker 1: the disastrous falling of the screen. Yeah, there was I
Speaker 1: think at Sunday festival that happened, screen fell fell Over.
Speaker 1: I do remember maybe the oldest person in this room.
Speaker 1: I do remember when Earthquake came out, starring Sir Charlton Heston.
Speaker 1: Of course they had these sents around vibrate for a
Speaker 1: terrible film, John Cameron Mitchell, any closing thoughts on Nashville snacks,
Speaker 1: movie theater, disasters, or anything else. Look at Charlton Heston again,
Speaker 1: we all know he was an idiot. He was great
Speaker 1: in bowling for Columbine, but he had an authority, didn't
Speaker 1: he s um oh, absolutely had a gravity. He had
Speaker 1: a very classic gravitas to him. It was and he
Speaker 1: was and he had a lot of lower teeth acting,
Speaker 1: and you know, people forget that. In The Omega Man
Speaker 1: he played the last asshole on Earth. So let that
Speaker 1: be the last film you want. John, Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being a movie crush. What was a pleasure?
Speaker 1: What a guy, John Cameron Mitchell one of my favorite
Speaker 1: human beings in the whole wide world. It's been an
Speaker 1: absolute pleasure getting to know him and working together and
Speaker 1: sitting down with him for this conversation was probably one
Speaker 1: of the coolest things I've ever gotten the chance to do.
Speaker 1: So I really hope you enjoyed it. Uh, Chuck will
Speaker 1: be back for future interview episodes, and of course you
Speaker 1: can tune in to hear me and Chuck um talk
Speaker 1: movies on the mini Crush episodes. But UM, hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. Thanks for giving me a shot Chuck
Speaker 1: to be in the big chair. It was it was
Speaker 1: a thrill. Um. We'll see you next time, folks on
Speaker 1: the next movie Crash. Google Crushes produced editment and engineered
Speaker 1: by Ramsey unt here in our home studio at Pont
Speaker 1: City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts.
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