WEBVTT - How the Donner Party Worked 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:16.479 from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.640 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, I was always 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.080 as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:28.479 you should know? M How you don't. I'm fine, good. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.879 How are you doing? I'm great, dude. I watched PBS 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:34.720 today at work, which is always fun when you get 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:41.680 to watch TV via the computer at work paid for it. Yeah, man, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.880 I remember I watched American grind House once at work 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.559 while we were doing the exploitation I did do. Actually, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.600 it was awesome. I watched the PBS is American Experience, 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.760 which is an awesome show. I've been around for years, 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.040 and I watched there. Obviously. I watched the one in 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.320 the Donner Party. Oh is that the one you? I gotcha? 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:03.600 I just saw there was one on the Johnstown flood 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.120 that I wish already known. I would have watched it. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.360 Oh yeah, I mean I'll still watch it. I still 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.480 want to learn. You're not gonna you only watch PBS 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.640 at work for money? Um. I was doing a little 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.920 research and I came across something called hufu or hoofu 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.960 I play on Hulu. No, a play on tofu that's 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:29.200 designed um to taste like human flesh. Oh, I was 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.280 going in an entirely different direction. There was a big 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.000 um yeah, no, this is this is about cannibalism. Now 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.600 there's a big media push on it. It made the 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:46.800 Daily Show. Um, all sorts of articles came up about whufu. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.680 There's a spokesman. There was a website, um, and it 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.080 was the tofu that's that tastes like human. They were 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.320 saying the reason why they're doing it so anthropologists could 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.880 better um understand then their subjects when they were investigating cambalism. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.120 And there's plenty of people out there who just wanted 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.000 to try it. Well, how did they know? How did 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.640 they flavor it like human? Well they didn't. It turns 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.560 out the whole thing was total farce. But if you 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.560 still look today, Um, it was on the snop spoort. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:24.080 It's not definitively yes, but no one's ever had it. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.760 And apparently while you could access the website, you you 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:29.919 couldn't buy. You got an error message whenever you tried 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.040 to check out or whatever. But um, it was pretty 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:38.840 funny that everybody got taken on that. I thought I'd mentioned. Yeah, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.240 I did too, And if you look in Urban Dictionary, UM, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.560 that's still there's no mention of it being fake or fictitious. Yeah, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.919 I think I loathe to say it, but it was 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:55.880 Wikipedia that that initially said it's fictitious. To me, I 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:01.520 feel dirty. Um, but Chuck, we talk about hoofu or hufu, 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.040 depending on what region of the country you live in. 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.160 Um to talk about the Donner Party, which is one 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:12.720 of those very rare instances in the history of humanity 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:17.680 where we can say, pretty much without doubt, people late 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.959 other people, and they did so under some of the 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.519 most horrific circumstances that humans have ever endured. This group 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:30.720 of people went through. Holy hell, it's pretty rough there. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.800 I can just keep going for the rest of the episodes. 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.520 Bad it was, um and uh. I learned a lot 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.800 from this article, a lot of new surprising stuff. It's 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.000 pretty cool, Like, did you know that it took two 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.920 years when it should have taken six months? What are 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:54.000 you talking about? Okay, well, did you know that the 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.360 Donner Party was originally the Donna Reed Party and the 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.520 the Reed Party split off and made their way without 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.400 event onto um Fort Cutter, California. No problem, that's not 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.200 true either. What are you talking about? Yeah, this is 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.160 not the best article on our site. And I must say, 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:13.440 and I read it, and then I did my own 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.680 research and was like, wow, how did you miss some 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.840 of this stuff. We'll get to the bottom of that 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.920 and we'll we'll make sure it gets changed. I've already 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.200 sent an email actually about that. Did you an angry one? Well, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.360 just like, how could this be on our site? It's 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.480 so wrong and it's so easily figured out. It's not 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.680 like rocket science. It's like it took two years. No, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.960 look at a calendar. It took one year. So a 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:43.080 caddy one. Okay, little catty. Um, well, let's talk about 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.679 the Donner Party. Let's talk about what's known what's not known. 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:51.320 So Donna Donna Read. Donner was a wealthy farmer in 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:57.880 his sixties. Read was Irish American businessman, had some dough 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.720 as well. He financed the trip. Oh did he? I believe? So? Okay, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.239 But George Donner was the official guy in charge. Yeah, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.719 James Reid thought that he was going to be in charge. Um, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.800 and kind of was in a way, but they did 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:18.280 elect Donner the captain because Reid turned off people with 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.920 his his RV. Essentially he had a a macked out 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.960 wagon that everyone else is really piste off about because 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.520 it was double decker and it had a stove in it, 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.000 and it had bunk beds and it was like apparently 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.120 like made a big commotion among the other people because 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.039 they're like, who's this guy with his big wagon? And 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.080 this is even before the chuck wagon was invented by 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.040 Charles Chuck Goodnight. Do you want to go ahead and 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.039 tell that story? Well, there's not much to tell. Charles 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.839 Chuck Goodnight was a cookie on the wagon trails. Uh, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.880 and after the Civil War he had gotten very tired 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.560 of not having a decent meal, so he bought an 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.080 old government wagon and converted it into a kitchen, in 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:05.720 which became the first chuck wagon named after him. And uh, 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.440 from that, if you follow it further and further, you 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.559 get diners and food trucks. Chuck wagon. Yeah, very nice, gosh, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:19.840 very slick. So the Donna Reed party, Uh, like a 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.520 lot of people back then said you know what, you 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.880 know where it's at this place called California that I've 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.839 heard so much about. And this is prior to the 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:29.719 gold Rush. Yeah, um this there was a movement towards 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:34.880 populating California, basically wrestling wrestling control of California away from 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.880 the Spanish just through sheer numbers, by having a bunch 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:43.760 of white folks show up and basically saying, Mexico, you can't, 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.880 you can't control this land anymore. It will be too 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.279 expensive and costly. We're taking over because we live here now, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.719 That's right. And Lansford Hastings was one of the main 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.520 dudes behind this movement. He was an attorney from Ohio. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:01.599 He went to California two and dream aimed of wrestling 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.880 this land from the Mexican uh from Mexico and saying 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.920 and governing California himself. Well, he did dreams. He did 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.720 so with a guy named John Sutter, who was a 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.440 German born Swiss immigrant who had taken Mexican citizen citizenship 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.480 to get a charter a land grant from the Mexican 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.640 government and he used it to form um New Helvetia 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.920 or New Switzerland a k a. Fort Sutter, which is 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:36.800 now Sacramento, Swiss German Swiss born with Mexican citizenship. I 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.320 love it. Who was a trader only in the eighteen 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.720 forties can do stuff like that? Exactly only in California, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.760 you know. But Hastings will come back up in a 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.720 very big way because it's pretty much all his fault got. Uh. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.120 So they basically set out for for California in May, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.120 while they set out from Springfield in April, but Missouri 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.280 in May is when they had the whole gang together, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.960 the big wagon train. So we're going west, We're following 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:10.600 the California trail. Everyone goes that way. Everyone actually that 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.080 year made it except for the Donner Party. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.520 all the immigrants going to California checked in, Okay, except 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:22.119 for these these sad folks. And um, it was really 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:27.520 all because of one fateful decision. To tell the truth. Um, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.240 they were just like any other uh wagon train, just 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.600 like any other pioneers. They weren't trailblazers. They were following 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.760 trails that they learned of and um they were well equipped, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.439 they weren't stupid, but they did make one faithful decision. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:48.000 Like you said, Um, Hastings was his first name, Lanford. 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.400 Lanford Hastings comes up in a big way because a 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.120 lot of people laid the disaster, the calamity of the 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.600 Donner party at Hastings feet because he was also a 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.000 trail laser, and he came up with a fanciful thing 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:07.480 called the Hastings cut Off. That's right, a shortcut essentially. Yeah, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.560 he wrote a book called The Immigrants Guide to Oregon 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.160 in California, which Donner had on the seat of his wagon, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.000 and there was a very brief sentence about the shortcut, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.480 the Hastings cut Off that was supposedly going to cut 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:26.080 off about three fifty four hundred miles a full three 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.760 weeks off of the trip, which is a big chunk 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.040 for a six month trip. That's definitely worth the the 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.480 trip that they cut off. The problem was Hastings had 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.520 never taken this route himself and had certainly never taken 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.840 a wagon over it. But that didn't stop him from 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.800 claiming that all of the roads were high and hard 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.679 and level, that there was plenty of water and grass 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.640 for the livestock um, and that there were no aggressive 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.200 Indian tribes in the area. Yeah, he basically painted it 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.679 out like a pleasure cruise because he was trying to 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.680 get as many people as possible to California. Yeah, he 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.959 actually would go and hang out like on the way 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.640 to Oregon, on the Oregon Trail and be like, you 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.079 don't want to go there, you want to come down 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.319 to California because you leave people. Yeah. So this is 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.200 why he came up with the Hastings cut off. And 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.400 it was a dangerous gamble. And the Donner Party said, well, 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:20.040 we want to shave three weeks off of our trip. Well, yeah, 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.400 part of the Donner Party uh went left, part of 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.600 him went right. The part that went right did just fine. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.520 And you don't hear about them. They're not the Dinner 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.400 Party any longer. I don't know what they're what they 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.920 called themselves, but it wasn't the Reds. It was not 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.520 the Reds. The Reds stayed with the Donners. Uh, And 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.400 they went left, went on to Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.840 were gonna meet up with Hastings there, and they got 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.200 there a little late and and Hastings was no longer there. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.160 But he uh sent message. Oh, he left a note 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.000 somewhere along the trail along the Hastens cut off saying, uh, 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.319 this may not be as good as I thought. You 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.240 should probably turn back. Well yeah, and before that, this 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.040 other dude named Climbing was headed east from California by 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.160 way the Hastings cut off, and he said, don't go 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.959 this way. He said, you're you're never gonna make it alive. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.120 Your wagons aren't gonna make it, and you probably wouldn't 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.400 even make it, So don't go that way. So they continued. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.760 They continued, they found the note, and when they found 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.000 the note, read went, uh spent five days looking for 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.040 Hastings to kill him, to talk to him about what 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:33.960 the deal was. He just said he wanted to talk 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.920 to him. Yeah, he wanted to kill him. Uh. He 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.600 did find him, actually, and he didn't kill him. Uh. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.559 And Hasting said, I'm not coming back with you to 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.720 lead Uh sorry, but hey, I'm up on this high 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.080 bluff and there's another route and that one looks a 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.160 lot better. And so they went that way instead, which 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.920 was still the southern route under the Great Salt Lake. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.319 But um, it was not a good move. And that's 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.280 what Star did the beginning of the end for the 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.040 dinner party. Two miles a day. Yeah, at that point, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.000 in thirty six days, they went sixteen miles, which is 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.760 horrible considering that, um, they averaged about twelve miles a 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.120 day normally. Um, they ended up going an extra hundred 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.000 and twenty five miles and it added three weeks to 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.119 the trip rather than subtracting three weeks to the trip. 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.400 They also lost four wagons, which is a big deal 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.640 in a wagon train. Yeah, they lost a lot of 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.680 oxen of their cattle as well. And uh, that's where 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:39.120 they lost some of their first members because essentially they 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.920 were in the desert eighty miles stretched the desert on 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.959 the trail. Yeah, the salt desert, so you got the 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.959 heat during the day and then it was very cold 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.120 at night. And this was in August. This was like hm. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.880 They eventually met back up with the California Trail, but 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.319 they thought, oh man, that was rough, but now we're 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.800 all set because we're back on the original trail. So 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.840 that time that it took him, I mean that extra 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.360 three weeks, wasn't it. That wasn't went dinnim And they 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.480 were going slower than they predicted. Yeah, and it's important 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.440 to know right here, during that Hastings cut off route 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.000 where they started to encounter like a lot of hardships, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.360 they sent this dude named Stanton. He was a bachelor 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.840 from New York, uh, and he was one of the 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.079 only like single dudes there. They sent him out for provisions. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:28.240 So he took off for a period of time and 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.880 did come back with five mules loaded with food and 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.000 two Indian guides Lewis and Salvador to help him out, 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.440 so they weren't a part like the article says the 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:44.800 original training. He came back with the provisions with Stanton Uh. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.040 During this time, read got in a fight. It was 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.920 basically the first incident of road rage. His wagon became entangled, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.719 his big like RV wagon became entangled with a guy 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:59.800 named Snyder. They fought. Uh Reid killed Snyder with a knife. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.200 They had a little kangaroo court and first said they 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.360 should hang him and then said, now you know what, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.120 just pack your stuff and get out of here. Wow. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.800 Did the financier of the whole thing. Yeah, And so 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.240 he did the next day without his family. He left. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.920 So he's crazy. There's two stories going on. Now you've 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.480 got the dinner party and the Red family. Then you've 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.880 got Red who goes on his own makes it to California. 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.680 Actually just fine. Well, he was no worse for the wear, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.880 at least so wow, the dramas high already. Yeah, the 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.520 drama is high. They they the amount of time, all 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.160 the setbacks, all of the problems that they encountered, conspired 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.240 to put them back on the California Trail after the 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:48.200 disastrous hastings cut off um and right at the eastern edge, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.480 so that would be the but the Nevada side maybe 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.560 of the um Sierra Nevada Mountains in November at the 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.160 first snow storm, and it was a pretty bad snowstorm, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.160 and they thought, we can't make it through these mountains 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.840 in the middle of winter. It's November. Let's just honker 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.120 down here. And it would turn out to be one 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.440 of the worst winders, one of the harshest winners on 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:17.040 record that they were unknowingly honkering down for. And they 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.880 made camp two very famous camps. There was the Donner 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.680 Camp at the edge of a little lake in the area, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.200 Truckee Lake, and then there was the Alder Creek camp, 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.320 which apparently was uh founded because of a broken wagon wheel, 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.120 is six miles back for they're back along the trail 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.320 and that's where the two groups camped in the Donner Party. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.520 If I may a reading from the diary of one 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:46.360 of the members of the Donner Party November Party, November 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.960 one eighty six. It was a raining then in the 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.160 valleys and snowing in the mountains. So we went on 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.160 that way three or four days till we came to 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.840 the Big Mountain, or the California Mountain. The snow was 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.200 then about three ft deep. There there was some wagons there. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.680 They said they had attempted to cross and could not. 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.400 We set out the next morning to make a last struggle, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.960 but did not advance more than two miles before the 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.040 road became so completely blocked that we were compelled to 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.960 retrace our steps in despair. When we reached the lake, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.400 we lost our road, and owing to the depth of 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.480 the snow in the mountains, were compelled to abandon our 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.840 wagons and pack our goods upon Oxen. So this is 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.320 early November, and they are in bad shape and basically 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.160 the wagons can't even pass anymore. So they set up 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.280 these camps, are like we gotta hunker down for the winter, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.600 And ultimately they ended up in an area where there 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:42.360 was through the winter thirty feet of snow. Not over 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.880 time like that was the snowpack was thirty ft deep. Yeah, 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.400 I mean it's still one of the worst winners on record, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.680 like today, not just for the time. And these people, 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:56.280 this group of fairly green hornish people from back east 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.360 are settled down and one of the most dangerous spots 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.560 in the country at the time, at least climate wise. Yeah, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:09.679 medor all illogically dangerous provisions started to run out. Another 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.520 diary entry, November six, We have now killed most of 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.720 our cattle, having to stay here until next spring and 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.680 live on poor beef, without bread or salt. It's snow 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.200 during the space of eight days with little intermission. After 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.280 our arrival, Mr Curtis remarked that in the oven was 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.760 a piece of the dog and we could have and 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.200 we could have it. Raising the lid of the oven, 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.080 we found the dog well baked and having a fine 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.320 savory smell. I cut out a rib, smelling and tasting, 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.359 found it to be good and handed the rib to 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.800 Mr McCutchen, who, after smelling it sometime tasted it and 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:46.159 pronounced it the very good dog. So apparently that was, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.520 you know, the Dinners dog or the Reeds dog. It 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.679 was one of the main things dogs, you know, was 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.800 met that fate. Yeah, I hadn't. I didn't read that 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.480 he was delicious. Uh, well, imagine if you're dying of starvation, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.520 anything going to be delicious. They ate their shoestrings, They 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.680 ate the kids would sit in front of the fire 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.119 and pick off pieces of the hide skin rug and 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.440 eat that, and then they eventually ate the hide from 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.240 the roofs of the cabins because there are actually cabins 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.960 at the lake. There were no cabins at the creek. No, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.520 but they weren't you know, they weren't much help against 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.440 this kind of snow. In fact, apparently they were completely 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.080 packed in at one point and couldn't even get out 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:27.359 of the cabin. It was like the thing that happened, um, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:33.600 Mr Burns and Homer Simpson. Yeah, when the the camping 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.680 tripper was at the ski trip. It was the corporate retreat, right, boy, 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.240 that was a good one. Um. They also they boiled 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.040 their blankets into like kind of a pasty glue. Apparently 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.400 you said there's shoelaces, right, They ate their shoelaces, Yeah, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.600 because I think they were made of like animal hide 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.840 or something, bark, twigs, anything they could get their hands on, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.920 anything that might have any kind of protein. They were eating. Yeah, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.159 they boiled the bones so much for soup that they 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.560 became just brittle. So they ate the bones of the 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:08.200 animals because they could like bite into them. So it's um, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.840 it's pretty rough. They also, it should go without saying, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.199 they ate their pack animals. They managed to hunt for deer, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.720 which is pretty good in thirty feet of snow to 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.119 hunt deer in the middle of winter and successfully. Hats 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.040 off to them for that. Yeah, they got other things. 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.840 They got birds here and there, like ducks and owls 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.440 and uh, I think they got a wolf one time. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.480 So they were able to the forage here and there. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.720 But but everybody, everyone's clearly starving by this time, and 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.200 it's the writings on the wall to the parties at 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.520 these camps. So they select a group of um, well, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.520 the strongest people, including the two Indian guides and I 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.720 think it was the strongest fifteen people, equipped them with 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:57.560 homemade snowshoes, and set them out to walk across the 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.760 Sierra Nevada mountains in the middle of winter with almost 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.719 no food. They had six days starvation rations per person 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.119 um and they were called the Forlorn Hope. That was 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.280 the name of the group or the Snowshoe Group. And 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.520 I just want to point out that this is some 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.280 of the most beautiful land you'll ever see in your life. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.919 So it's you know, it's not like they were in 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.520 a goo log in Siberia. I mean, this was like 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.840 gorgeous Sierra Nevada mountain range in this lake. You know, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.080 it's it's absolutely amazing. So it must have been a 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.560 bitter pill, you know, to be that close. So they're 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.240 only like a hundred and fifty miles away at that 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:41.080 point and just stuck, yeah, and dying. I think even 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:42.879 beyond the beauty, the fact that they were a hundred 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.520 and fifty miles from their destination, yea, dying like you said, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:52.840 that's rough. It was them the Forlorn Hope Group where 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:57.080 cannibalism first came up because they all ran out of 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:02.920 food very quickly, and apparently six days in. A guy 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.480 UM named Charles Stanton who you mentioned. Stanton didn'to he 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.159 was a bachelor. He was saying, hey, you guys go 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.800 on without me, or um, you know, take me with 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.240 you as provisions maybe, and everybody said, no, we can't 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.480 do that. It's crazy. Stop that um, and they left 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:24.240 him to die right. A couple of days after that, 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.600 they thought, hey, maybe Stanton wasn't so crazy. Let's figure 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:33.440 out well, let's let's all let's explore the possibility of cannibalism. 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.320 And they did. They discussed it, and apparently at first 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.600 they decided that they were going to draw lots draw straws, 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.840 and then whoever is like the custom of the sea, 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.760 whoever drew the short oft straw was going to die, 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.960 and whoever drew the second short of straw was the 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.440 person who had to kill him. And this one guy, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.240 I can't remember his name, drew the straw, the shortest straw, 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.520 but nobody had the heart to kill him, so they 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.439 they kind of just waited instead for the next person 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.600 to die, and they proposed dueling to at one point, 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.679 like let's do a shootout and whoever dies, we'll just 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:15.159 eat them. But it was very grim. Um. Another another 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:20.959 reading perhaps yes, this was in December actually right for Christmas, sadly, 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.920 and this melancholy, and this is from the Snowshoe group, 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.480 the Forlorn Hope. In this melancholy situation, they consulted together 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.880 and concluded they would go on trusting in Providence rather 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.919 than return to the Miserable Cabins. They were also at 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.840 this time out of provisions and partly agreed, with the 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.199 exception of Mr Foster, that in case of necessity they 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.040 would cast lots who should die to preserve the remainder. 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:50.880 So it's coming, they know it, so UM, I think 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:56.240 a couple of days after UM they started talking about cannibalism. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:02.280 The first guy died. His name was Um Antoine and 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:09.760 Antoine Um was eaten by the Forlorn Hope group. Um. 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.639 He was the first one, but definitely not the last. 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.040 There was a guy named Jay Fastick. He was the 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.400 next in a lady named Mrs Foster cut the meat 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.000 from his bones, boiled it and served it to everybody, 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.520 and everybody ate. But the one thing that was um 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:33.280 agreed upon was that relatives wouldn't eat relatives. Uh. So 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:36.840 there was a guy named Jay Fastick who was who 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:41.040 died next, and he was um butchered and cooked and 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.520 served by a lady named Mrs Foster. His fan but 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.359 his uh. One of the things they agreed upon was 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:53.040 that relatives wouldn't eat relatives, right so uh. But apparently 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.440 his father was part of the um. The Forlorn Hope 0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:59.240 group to yeah, he wasn't having it. Hu. And then 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.160 things apparently started to turn on the two Indian guides. 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:08.040