1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me, I was always 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: you should know? M How you don't. I'm fine, good. 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm great, dude. I watched PBS 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: today at work, which is always fun when you get 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: to watch TV via the computer at work paid for it. Yeah, man, 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: I remember I watched American grind House once at work 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: while we were doing the exploitation I did do. Actually, 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: it was awesome. I watched the PBS is American Experience, 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: which is an awesome show. I've been around for years, 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: and I watched there. Obviously. I watched the one in 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: the Donner Party. Oh is that the one you? I gotcha? 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: I just saw there was one on the Johnstown flood 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: that I wish already known. I would have watched it. 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I'll still watch it. I still 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: want to learn. You're not gonna you only watch PBS 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: at work for money? Um. I was doing a little 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: research and I came across something called hufu or hoofu 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: I play on Hulu. No, a play on tofu that's 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: designed um to taste like human flesh. Oh, I was 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: going in an entirely different direction. There was a big 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: um yeah, no, this is this is about cannibalism. Now 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: there's a big media push on it. It made the 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: Daily Show. Um, all sorts of articles came up about whufu. 28 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: There's a spokesman. There was a website, um, and it 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: was the tofu that's that tastes like human. They were 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: saying the reason why they're doing it so anthropologists could 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: better um understand then their subjects when they were investigating cambalism. 32 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: And there's plenty of people out there who just wanted 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: to try it. Well, how did they know? How did 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: they flavor it like human? Well they didn't. It turns 35 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: out the whole thing was total farce. But if you 36 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: still look today, Um, it was on the snop spoort. 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: It's not definitively yes, but no one's ever had it. 38 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: And apparently while you could access the website, you you 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: couldn't buy. You got an error message whenever you tried 40 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: to check out or whatever. But um, it was pretty 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: funny that everybody got taken on that. I thought I'd mentioned. Yeah, 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: I did too, And if you look in Urban Dictionary, UM, 43 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: that's still there's no mention of it being fake or fictitious. Yeah, 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: I think I loathe to say it, but it was 45 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Wikipedia that that initially said it's fictitious. To me, I 46 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: feel dirty. Um, but Chuck, we talk about hoofu or hufu, 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: depending on what region of the country you live in. 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: Um to talk about the Donner Party, which is one 49 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: of those very rare instances in the history of humanity 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: where we can say, pretty much without doubt, people late 51 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: other people, and they did so under some of the 52 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: most horrific circumstances that humans have ever endured. This group 53 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: of people went through. Holy hell, it's pretty rough there. 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: I can just keep going for the rest of the episodes. 55 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: Bad it was, um and uh. I learned a lot 56 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: from this article, a lot of new surprising stuff. It's 57 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: pretty cool, Like, did you know that it took two 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: years when it should have taken six months? What are 59 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: you talking about? Okay, well, did you know that the 60 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Donner Party was originally the Donna Reed Party and the 61 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: the Reed Party split off and made their way without 62 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: event onto um Fort Cutter, California. No problem, that's not 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: true either. What are you talking about? Yeah, this is 64 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: not the best article on our site. And I must say, 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: and I read it, and then I did my own 66 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: research and was like, wow, how did you miss some 67 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: of this stuff. We'll get to the bottom of that 68 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll make sure it gets changed. I've already 69 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: sent an email actually about that. Did you an angry one? Well, 70 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: just like, how could this be on our site? It's 71 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: so wrong and it's so easily figured out. It's not 72 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: like rocket science. It's like it took two years. No, 73 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: look at a calendar. It took one year. So a 74 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: caddy one. Okay, little catty. Um, well, let's talk about 75 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: the Donner Party. Let's talk about what's known what's not known. 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: So Donna Donna Read. Donner was a wealthy farmer in 77 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: his sixties. Read was Irish American businessman, had some dough 78 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: as well. He financed the trip. Oh did he? I believe? So? Okay, 79 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: But George Donner was the official guy in charge. Yeah, 80 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: James Reid thought that he was going to be in charge. Um, 81 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: and kind of was in a way, but they did 82 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: elect Donner the captain because Reid turned off people with 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: his his RV. Essentially he had a a macked out 84 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: wagon that everyone else is really piste off about because 85 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: it was double decker and it had a stove in it, 86 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: and it had bunk beds and it was like apparently 87 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: like made a big commotion among the other people because 88 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: they're like, who's this guy with his big wagon? And 89 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: this is even before the chuck wagon was invented by 90 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: Charles Chuck Goodnight. Do you want to go ahead and 91 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: tell that story? Well, there's not much to tell. Charles 92 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: Chuck Goodnight was a cookie on the wagon trails. Uh, 93 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: and after the Civil War he had gotten very tired 94 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: of not having a decent meal, so he bought an 95 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: old government wagon and converted it into a kitchen, in 96 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: which became the first chuck wagon named after him. And uh, 97 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: from that, if you follow it further and further, you 98 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:13,559 Speaker 1: get diners and food trucks. Chuck wagon. Yeah, very nice, gosh, 99 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: very slick. So the Donna Reed party, Uh, like a 100 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: lot of people back then said you know what, you 101 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: know where it's at this place called California that I've 102 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: heard so much about. And this is prior to the 103 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: gold Rush. Yeah, um this there was a movement towards 104 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: populating California, basically wrestling wrestling control of California away from 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: the Spanish just through sheer numbers, by having a bunch 106 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: of white folks show up and basically saying, Mexico, you can't, 107 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: you can't control this land anymore. It will be too 108 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: expensive and costly. We're taking over because we live here now, 109 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: That's right. And Lansford Hastings was one of the main 110 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: dudes behind this movement. He was an attorney from Ohio. 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: He went to California two and dream aimed of wrestling 112 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: this land from the Mexican uh from Mexico and saying 113 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: and governing California himself. Well, he did dreams. He did 114 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: so with a guy named John Sutter, who was a 115 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: German born Swiss immigrant who had taken Mexican citizen citizenship 116 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: to get a charter a land grant from the Mexican 117 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: government and he used it to form um New Helvetia 118 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: or New Switzerland a k a. Fort Sutter, which is 119 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: now Sacramento, Swiss German Swiss born with Mexican citizenship. I 120 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: love it. Who was a trader only in the eighteen 121 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: forties can do stuff like that? Exactly only in California, 122 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: you know. But Hastings will come back up in a 123 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: very big way because it's pretty much all his fault got. Uh. 124 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: So they basically set out for for California in May, 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: while they set out from Springfield in April, but Missouri 126 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: in May is when they had the whole gang together, 127 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: the big wagon train. So we're going west, We're following 128 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: the California trail. Everyone goes that way. Everyone actually that 129 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: year made it except for the Donner Party. Oh yeah, yeah, 130 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: all the immigrants going to California checked in, Okay, except 131 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: for these these sad folks. And um, it was really 132 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: all because of one fateful decision. To tell the truth. Um, 133 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: they were just like any other uh wagon train, just 134 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: like any other pioneers. They weren't trailblazers. They were following 135 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: trails that they learned of and um they were well equipped, 136 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: they weren't stupid, but they did make one faithful decision. 137 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: Like you said, Um, Hastings was his first name, Lanford. 138 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: Lanford Hastings comes up in a big way because a 139 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: lot of people laid the disaster, the calamity of the 140 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: Donner party at Hastings feet because he was also a 141 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: trail laser, and he came up with a fanciful thing 142 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: called the Hastings cut Off. That's right, a shortcut essentially. Yeah, 143 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: he wrote a book called The Immigrants Guide to Oregon 144 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: in California, which Donner had on the seat of his wagon, 145 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: and there was a very brief sentence about the shortcut, 146 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: the Hastings cut Off that was supposedly going to cut 147 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: off about three fifty four hundred miles a full three 148 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: weeks off of the trip, which is a big chunk 149 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: for a six month trip. That's definitely worth the the 150 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: trip that they cut off. The problem was Hastings had 151 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: never taken this route himself and had certainly never taken 152 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: a wagon over it. But that didn't stop him from 153 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: claiming that all of the roads were high and hard 154 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: and level, that there was plenty of water and grass 155 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: for the livestock um, and that there were no aggressive 156 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: Indian tribes in the area. Yeah, he basically painted it 157 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: out like a pleasure cruise because he was trying to 158 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: get as many people as possible to California. Yeah, he 159 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: actually would go and hang out like on the way 160 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: to Oregon, on the Oregon Trail and be like, you 161 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: don't want to go there, you want to come down 162 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: to California because you leave people. Yeah. So this is 163 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: why he came up with the Hastings cut off. And 164 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: it was a dangerous gamble. And the Donner Party said, well, 165 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: we want to shave three weeks off of our trip. Well, yeah, 166 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: part of the Donner Party uh went left, part of 167 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: him went right. The part that went right did just fine. 168 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: And you don't hear about them. They're not the Dinner 169 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: Party any longer. I don't know what they're what they 170 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: called themselves, but it wasn't the Reds. It was not 171 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: the Reds. The Reds stayed with the Donners. Uh, And 172 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: they went left, went on to Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They 173 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: were gonna meet up with Hastings there, and they got 174 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: there a little late and and Hastings was no longer there. 175 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: But he uh sent message. Oh, he left a note 176 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: somewhere along the trail along the Hastens cut off saying, uh, 177 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: this may not be as good as I thought. You 178 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: should probably turn back. Well yeah, and before that, this 179 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: other dude named Climbing was headed east from California by 180 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: way the Hastings cut off, and he said, don't go 181 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: this way. He said, you're you're never gonna make it alive. 182 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: Your wagons aren't gonna make it, and you probably wouldn't 183 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: even make it, So don't go that way. So they continued. 184 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: They continued, they found the note, and when they found 185 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the note, read went, uh spent five days looking for 186 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: Hastings to kill him, to talk to him about what 187 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: the deal was. He just said he wanted to talk 188 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, he wanted to kill him. Uh. He 189 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: did find him, actually, and he didn't kill him. Uh. 190 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: And Hasting said, I'm not coming back with you to 191 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: lead Uh sorry, but hey, I'm up on this high 192 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: bluff and there's another route and that one looks a 193 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: lot better. And so they went that way instead, which 194 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: was still the southern route under the Great Salt Lake. 195 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: But um, it was not a good move. And that's 196 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: what Star did the beginning of the end for the 197 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: dinner party. Two miles a day. Yeah, at that point, 198 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: in thirty six days, they went sixteen miles, which is 199 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: horrible considering that, um, they averaged about twelve miles a 200 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: day normally. Um, they ended up going an extra hundred 201 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: and twenty five miles and it added three weeks to 202 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,119 Speaker 1: the trip rather than subtracting three weeks to the trip. 203 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: They also lost four wagons, which is a big deal 204 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: in a wagon train. Yeah, they lost a lot of 205 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: oxen of their cattle as well. And uh, that's where 206 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: they lost some of their first members because essentially they 207 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: were in the desert eighty miles stretched the desert on 208 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: the trail. Yeah, the salt desert, so you got the 209 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: heat during the day and then it was very cold 210 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: at night. And this was in August. This was like hm. 211 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: They eventually met back up with the California Trail, but 212 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: they thought, oh man, that was rough, but now we're 213 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: all set because we're back on the original trail. So 214 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: that time that it took him, I mean that extra 215 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: three weeks, wasn't it. That wasn't went dinnim And they 216 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: were going slower than they predicted. Yeah, and it's important 217 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: to know right here, during that Hastings cut off route 218 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: where they started to encounter like a lot of hardships, 219 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: they sent this dude named Stanton. He was a bachelor 220 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: from New York, uh, and he was one of the 221 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: only like single dudes there. They sent him out for provisions. 222 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: So he took off for a period of time and 223 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: did come back with five mules loaded with food and 224 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: two Indian guides Lewis and Salvador to help him out, 225 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: so they weren't a part like the article says the 226 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: original training. He came back with the provisions with Stanton Uh. 227 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: During this time, read got in a fight. It was 228 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: basically the first incident of road rage. His wagon became entangled, 229 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: his big like RV wagon became entangled with a guy 230 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: named Snyder. They fought. Uh Reid killed Snyder with a knife. 231 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: They had a little kangaroo court and first said they 232 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: should hang him and then said, now you know what, 233 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: just pack your stuff and get out of here. Wow. 234 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: Did the financier of the whole thing. Yeah, And so 235 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: he did the next day without his family. He left. 236 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: So he's crazy. There's two stories going on. Now you've 237 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: got the dinner party and the Red family. Then you've 238 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: got Red who goes on his own makes it to California. 239 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: Actually just fine. Well, he was no worse for the wear, 240 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: at least so wow, the dramas high already. Yeah, the 241 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: drama is high. They they the amount of time, all 242 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: the setbacks, all of the problems that they encountered, conspired 243 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: to put them back on the California Trail after the 244 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: disastrous hastings cut off um and right at the eastern edge, 245 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: so that would be the but the Nevada side maybe 246 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: of the um Sierra Nevada Mountains in November at the 247 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: first snow storm, and it was a pretty bad snowstorm, 248 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: and they thought, we can't make it through these mountains 249 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of winter. It's November. Let's just honker 250 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: down here. And it would turn out to be one 251 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: of the worst winders, one of the harshest winners on 252 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: record that they were unknowingly honkering down for. And they 253 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: made camp two very famous camps. There was the Donner 254 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: Camp at the edge of a little lake in the area, 255 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: Truckee Lake, and then there was the Alder Creek camp, 256 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: which apparently was uh founded because of a broken wagon wheel, 257 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: is six miles back for they're back along the trail 258 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: and that's where the two groups camped in the Donner Party. 259 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: If I may a reading from the diary of one 260 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: of the members of the Donner Party November Party, November 261 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: one eighty six. It was a raining then in the 262 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: valleys and snowing in the mountains. So we went on 263 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: that way three or four days till we came to 264 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: the Big Mountain, or the California Mountain. The snow was 265 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: then about three ft deep. There there was some wagons there. 266 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: They said they had attempted to cross and could not. 267 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: We set out the next morning to make a last struggle, 268 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: but did not advance more than two miles before the 269 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: road became so completely blocked that we were compelled to 270 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: retrace our steps in despair. When we reached the lake, 271 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: we lost our road, and owing to the depth of 272 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: the snow in the mountains, were compelled to abandon our 273 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: wagons and pack our goods upon Oxen. So this is 274 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: early November, and they are in bad shape and basically 275 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: the wagons can't even pass anymore. So they set up 276 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: these camps, are like we gotta hunker down for the winter, 277 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: And ultimately they ended up in an area where there 278 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: was through the winter thirty feet of snow. Not over 279 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: time like that was the snowpack was thirty ft deep. Yeah, 280 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: I mean it's still one of the worst winners on record, 281 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: like today, not just for the time. And these people, 282 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: this group of fairly green hornish people from back east 283 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: are settled down and one of the most dangerous spots 284 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: in the country at the time, at least climate wise. Yeah, 285 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: medor all illogically dangerous provisions started to run out. Another 286 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: diary entry, November six, We have now killed most of 287 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: our cattle, having to stay here until next spring and 288 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: live on poor beef, without bread or salt. It's snow 289 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: during the space of eight days with little intermission. After 290 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: our arrival, Mr Curtis remarked that in the oven was 291 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: a piece of the dog and we could have and 292 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: we could have it. Raising the lid of the oven, 293 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: we found the dog well baked and having a fine 294 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: savory smell. I cut out a rib, smelling and tasting, 295 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: found it to be good and handed the rib to 296 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: Mr McCutchen, who, after smelling it sometime tasted it and 297 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: pronounced it the very good dog. So apparently that was, 298 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, the Dinners dog or the Reeds dog. It 299 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: was one of the main things dogs, you know, was 300 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: met that fate. Yeah, I hadn't. I didn't read that 301 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: he was delicious. Uh, well, imagine if you're dying of starvation, 302 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: anything going to be delicious. They ate their shoestrings, They 303 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: ate the kids would sit in front of the fire 304 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: and pick off pieces of the hide skin rug and 305 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: eat that, and then they eventually ate the hide from 306 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: the roofs of the cabins because there are actually cabins 307 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: at the lake. There were no cabins at the creek. No, 308 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: but they weren't you know, they weren't much help against 309 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: this kind of snow. In fact, apparently they were completely 310 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: packed in at one point and couldn't even get out 311 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: of the cabin. It was like the thing that happened, um, 312 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: Mr Burns and Homer Simpson. Yeah, when the the camping 313 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: tripper was at the ski trip. It was the corporate retreat, right, boy, 314 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: that was a good one. Um. They also they boiled 315 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: their blankets into like kind of a pasty glue. Apparently 316 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: you said there's shoelaces, right, They ate their shoelaces, Yeah, 317 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: because I think they were made of like animal hide 318 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: or something, bark, twigs, anything they could get their hands on, 319 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: anything that might have any kind of protein. They were eating. Yeah, 320 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: they boiled the bones so much for soup that they 321 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: became just brittle. So they ate the bones of the 322 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: animals because they could like bite into them. So it's um, 323 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: it's pretty rough. They also, it should go without saying, 324 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: they ate their pack animals. They managed to hunt for deer, 325 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: which is pretty good in thirty feet of snow to 326 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: hunt deer in the middle of winter and successfully. Hats 327 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: off to them for that. Yeah, they got other things. 328 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: They got birds here and there, like ducks and owls 329 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: and uh, I think they got a wolf one time. 330 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: So they were able to the forage here and there. 331 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: But but everybody, everyone's clearly starving by this time, and 332 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: it's the writings on the wall to the parties at 333 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: these camps. So they select a group of um, well, 334 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: the strongest people, including the two Indian guides and I 335 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: think it was the strongest fifteen people, equipped them with 336 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: homemade snowshoes, and set them out to walk across the 337 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: Sierra Nevada mountains in the middle of winter with almost 338 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: no food. They had six days starvation rations per person 339 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: um and they were called the Forlorn Hope. That was 340 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: the name of the group or the Snowshoe Group. And 341 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: I just want to point out that this is some 342 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful land you'll ever see in your life. 343 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's not like they were in 344 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: a goo log in Siberia. I mean, this was like 345 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: gorgeous Sierra Nevada mountain range in this lake. You know, 346 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: it's it's absolutely amazing. So it must have been a 347 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: bitter pill, you know, to be that close. So they're 348 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: only like a hundred and fifty miles away at that 349 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: point and just stuck, yeah, and dying. I think even 350 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: beyond the beauty, the fact that they were a hundred 351 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: and fifty miles from their destination, yea, dying like you said, 352 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: that's rough. It was them the Forlorn Hope Group where 353 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: cannibalism first came up because they all ran out of 354 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: food very quickly, and apparently six days in. A guy 355 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: UM named Charles Stanton who you mentioned. Stanton didn'to he 356 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: was a bachelor. He was saying, hey, you guys go 357 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: on without me, or um, you know, take me with 358 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: you as provisions maybe, and everybody said, no, we can't 359 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: do that. It's crazy. Stop that um, and they left 360 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: him to die right. A couple of days after that, 361 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: they thought, hey, maybe Stanton wasn't so crazy. Let's figure 362 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: out well, let's let's all let's explore the possibility of cannibalism. 363 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: And they did. They discussed it, and apparently at first 364 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: they decided that they were going to draw lots draw straws, 365 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: and then whoever is like the custom of the sea, 366 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: whoever drew the short oft straw was going to die, 367 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: and whoever drew the second short of straw was the 368 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: person who had to kill him. And this one guy, 369 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, drew the straw, the shortest straw, 370 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: but nobody had the heart to kill him, so they 371 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: they kind of just waited instead for the next person 372 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: to die, and they proposed dueling to at one point, 373 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: like let's do a shootout and whoever dies, we'll just 374 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: eat them. But it was very grim. Um. Another another 375 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: reading perhaps yes, this was in December actually right for Christmas, sadly, 376 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: and this melancholy, and this is from the Snowshoe group, 377 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: the Forlorn Hope. In this melancholy situation, they consulted together 378 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: and concluded they would go on trusting in Providence rather 379 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: than return to the Miserable Cabins. They were also at 380 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: this time out of provisions and partly agreed, with the 381 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: exception of Mr Foster, that in case of necessity they 382 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: would cast lots who should die to preserve the remainder. 383 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: So it's coming, they know it, so UM, I think 384 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: a couple of days after UM they started talking about cannibalism. 385 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: The first guy died. His name was Um Antoine and 386 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: Antoine Um was eaten by the Forlorn Hope group. Um. 387 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: He was the first one, but definitely not the last. 388 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: There was a guy named Jay Fastick. He was the 389 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: next in a lady named Mrs Foster cut the meat 390 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: from his bones, boiled it and served it to everybody, 391 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: and everybody ate. But the one thing that was um 392 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: agreed upon was that relatives wouldn't eat relatives. Uh. So 393 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: there was a guy named Jay Fastick who was who 394 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: died next, and he was um butchered and cooked and 395 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: served by a lady named Mrs Foster. His fan but 396 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: his uh. One of the things they agreed upon was 397 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: that relatives wouldn't eat relatives, right so uh. But apparently 398 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: his father was part of the um. The Forlorn Hope 399 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: group to yeah, he wasn't having it. Hu. And then 400 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: things apparently started to turn on the two Indian guides. 401 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: Who um, the group started discussing murdering and eating them. Yeah, 402 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: and one of the other Forlorn Hope groups said, hey, 403 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: we're talking about doing this, you guys might want to 404 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: take off. So the Indians apparently had trouble believing it 405 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: at first. Um. They finally said, oh wait, that's right, 406 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: you guys are white man. I forgot you totally would 407 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: do that, And they disappeared into the woods. Yes, but 408 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: they were later found. They tracked them by their blood, 409 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: so apparently they weren't in great shape and they found them. 410 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: This is where it gets a little hinky. Um. Some 411 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: accounts say they found them dead and ate them. Some 412 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: accounts say they found them alive and like passed out basically, 413 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: and they shot them both through the head and then 414 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: ate them. Either way, they ate them, as you know, 415 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: even though there's no anthropological proof. Yeah, we'll get to that. Um. 416 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: The uh so this whole all of these events take 417 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: place over thirty three days the Forlorn Hope. Yeah, um, 418 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: they and I imagine the cannibalism it came in starting 419 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: on day nine, Um, no day ten or eleven, and 420 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: then after that they had twenty two more days of 421 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: this and they finally made it to Fort Sutter and said, hey, um, 422 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: we got big problems. We need your help. Let's start 423 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: sending out some rescue parties. How many it was like 424 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: seven of them? Uh yeah, seven made of the original fifteen. 425 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: So all right, so that story is going on. You've 426 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: still got the Donner party back at the camp by 427 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: the lake and the river, and you've still got read 428 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: who made it to Sacramento to Sutter Sport. He tried 429 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: to get supplies and men to take back to to 430 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: rescue his family, and the Mexican American War prevented that 431 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: from happening. He was essentially forced to kind of join 432 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: up that effort, and he couldn't get any of the 433 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: men anyway because they were everybody was fighting in the war. 434 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: So uh. He would later go on to be part 435 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: of the second relief party that went to go find them. 436 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: So we'll pick that up when we get there, right, 437 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: Because meanwhile, while the forlorn Hopes engaged in this horror 438 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: in the woods, the same stuff's going on back at 439 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: the um camps on the eastern edge of the Sierra Nevadas. UM. 440 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: It took a little longer, I believe, but eventually UM 441 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: people started to eat the dead that had a die 442 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: of starvation. Right, that's true. So, like I mentioned, there 443 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: were some rescue efforts. There were four groups that went 444 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: from California because word got back and they even started 445 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: writing about it in the paper in San Francisco that 446 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: these people were stranded in the Sierra Nevadas. So uh 447 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: in February five, there was a quote we concluded we 448 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: could go or die trying for not to make any 449 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: attempt to save them would be a disgrace to us 450 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: into California for as long as time lasted. And that 451 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: was one of the members of the very first relief 452 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: group of seven men fifty pounds of provisions headed out. 453 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: But Reid was a part of the second group. Right. 454 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: The first group didn't leave for thirteen days after the 455 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: forlorn hope came to Fort cutter Um and then Yeah 456 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: Read led the second group. So one survivors were brought 457 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: back by the first group, seventeen by the second group. 458 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: The third group UM rescued four and then they had 459 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: to leave four people behind, including a guy named Lewis 460 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: Keysburg and um. When the fourth group came back, Louiskeithberg 461 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: was the only person alive. Suspiciously, well, yeah, he was 462 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: accused um almost immediately of murdering the other three people 463 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: in eating them. Uh. He was said to have been 464 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: discovered surrounded by the disfigured and cannibalized corpses of the 465 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: other three people. That in the frying pan there was 466 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: like lungs and livers, buckets of blood. Basically, he was 467 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: in this um crazy place that he had created himself 468 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: through cannibalism, completely off his rocker at that point. But 469 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: the big kicker was that there were three uneaten oxen legs, 470 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: and that when asked, he had said that he oxen 471 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: didn't have a very good flavor, so he had resorted 472 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: to eating the other people. But they had died of 473 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: natural causes. He hadn't murdered them. So when the rescue 474 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: party comes and gets them, Keysburg has kind of kept 475 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: the arms length, like no one's talking to him. They 476 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: don't want to have anything to do with them. When 477 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: they made camp one night, he apparently was looking at 478 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: the snow and saw like a little piece of cloth 479 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: and um tugged at it. It It was in the snow, 480 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: tugged at a little harder, little more, and all of 481 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: a sudden, Um, he jars loose his dead daughter, the corpse, 482 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: the frozen corpse of his dead daughter, who had last 483 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: seen sending off with his wife on the third rescue party. 484 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: So he had it pretty rough one way or another. Yeah. 485 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: He sued for defamation later on in the court right 486 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: when he got back. Yeah, the courts award him one 487 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: dollar and demanded that he paid the court cost on 488 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: top of that. So he lived the rest of his 489 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: life pretty much a hermit. Well, yeah, he was derided 490 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: as a murdering cannibal who enjoyed it. He denied that 491 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: the rest of his life. Um, and other people denied too. 492 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: Like first they would say like, yeah, we we resorted 493 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: to cannibalism here and here and here, and then later 494 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: on someone would say, no, we didn't actually, Um, that 495 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: was just sensationalized. Well, yeah, there's a big question so 496 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: like of whether the there actually was cannibalism in the 497 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: dinner party or if it was all sensationalized and fabricated 498 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: by the newspapers. The big question is if if the 499 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: Donner Party hadn't resorted cannibalism, why would they lie on 500 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: the answer to that is, they wouldn't lie about resorting 501 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: to cannibalism. And the reports are probably true, but in 502 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: the great tradition of William Errands, you need to see 503 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: it to believe it. As far as cannibalism goes, most 504 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,719 Speaker 1: people don't genuinely dispute that the dinner party did engage 505 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: in cannibalism. But the problem is that there is a 506 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: lack of forensic evidence. Like you said, they ate the 507 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: bones and bones of animals like the dog, you know, horses, deer, foxes, 508 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: that wolf. All these bones have been found at the campsites, 509 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: but they haven't found any human bones. So there's a 510 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: lot of explanations for that. Um. We know for a 511 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: fact that some people who came upon these scenes after 512 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: the dinner party had left ordered like these these things 513 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: to be cleaned up and buried. Makes sense. Um. Other 514 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: people have suggested that the donners didn't um, didn't try 515 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: to process the human cadavers like they did the animal bones, 516 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: and kind of very gently, so they wouldn't have left 517 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: butcher marks on the bones. Um. And then others say 518 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: that if they didn't cook the bones like they did 519 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: the animal bones, and those bones would have disintegrated a 520 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: long time ago. Then, lastly, the argument against says that 521 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: these things of cannibalism, like you said, happened here and 522 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: here and here and here. We only know of one 523 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: legitimate Donner site that's been excavated. The brothers haven't been found. 524 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: They can't find them. Yeah, so it's possible there is 525 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: evidence out there and just hasn't been discovered. But the 526 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: point is, why would these people, if they did actually 527 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: say this, and these are their journal entries, why would 528 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: they say that they engaged in cannibalism if they hadn't 529 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: exactly so read. In the meantime, made his way back 530 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: with a second relief group. Was convinced that his family 531 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: was dead, but was very surprised and relieved to find 532 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: that they were alive. So can you imagine this reunion 533 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: that happens when his like eight two year old son 534 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: was still a lot year old daughter. They were one 535 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: of two families that didn't have any deaths. Yeah, the 536 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: Reeds suffered no deaths, and uh, I believe the Breens 537 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: did not suffer deaths. All of the Donners died every 538 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: single one of them, which is pretty sad and um. 539 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: Out of the group, I think two thirds of the 540 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: women and children survived, two thirds of the men died, 541 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: and everyone over fifty died. That was Yeah, the fifty 542 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: was pretty old back then, especially for those kind of conditions. 543 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: So there you have it, the Donner Party. Basically, what 544 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: that did was halted a lot of immigration to California 545 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: for a while until word of old came around and 546 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: then they said it was it, screw it. I'll take 547 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: my chances. It was like a year before the first 548 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: gold rushed and then there was the Movement of eighteen 549 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: forty nine, the big gold Rush of eighteen forty nine, 550 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: and that was that. I think read what the one 551 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: of the read wife sent a letter out afterwards that 552 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: was like, don't be afraid to come out here, you know, 553 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: just don't take any shortcuts and hurry was basically don't 554 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: listen to Hastings, and Hastings was like the whole time, dude, 555 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: he was being cursed, like on a daily basis. He 556 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: was vilified and cursed and that pretty much scrapped his 557 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: reputation as a trailblazer and uh, anyone to be trusted 558 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: and that was the end of him. I couldn't find 559 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: anything up about the rest of his life, but I 560 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: know that he was pretty well disgraced by that. He 561 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: went on to be like a merchant and like he 562 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: lived in a life after that, but he apparently was 563 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: remorseful for the rest of his life. That's Langford Hastings. 564 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: I guess if you want to know more about him, 565 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: you can type his name l A N G F 566 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: O R D H A S T I n G 567 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: S in the search bar at how stuff works dot 568 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: com and it will coincidentally enough bring up this article 569 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: on the Donner Party. And I said, search bar at 570 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Right, this soon to be 571 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: changed article on the dinner party. And uh yeah, since 572 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna be changed soon, maybe give us a minute. Um, 573 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: But I said howster works dot com and search bar, 574 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: which means it's time for listener mail. Yes, this is 575 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: back to the future. Josh Okay, Josh Chuck exclamation points. 576 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: I just listened to the zero podcast and heard your 577 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,399 Speaker 1: cries for help from across the ages. We all heard 578 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: you guys go get into the way back machine. But 579 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: I think only a few of us realize that you 580 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,959 Speaker 1: never came out. I could tell that something had gone 581 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: wrong by the tone of your voice as you near 582 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: the end of the show, I know that you are 583 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: trying to send us a message. You are stuck in 584 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: fifth century India. I hope you have found somewhere safe 585 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: to bunker down. Do not try to fix the way 586 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: Back Machine on your end. Jerry and I are working 587 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 1: on a way to fix the broken flux capacitor remotely 588 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: and bring you back. We hope to hear you return 589 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: to us on a podcast soon. And one final warning, 590 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: do not, under any circumstances use the way Back Machine 591 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: while you are still strapped inside the way Back Machine. 592 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: The last thing we need is an inception style time 593 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: travel within time travel scenario. And that says uh Max 594 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: Prince god Speed from Max Prints, assistant to Dr Emmett Lathrop, 595 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: Doc Brown. Nice A little bit of fun there. I've 596 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: been enjoying the heck out of a sag paneer that 597 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: I've been eating morning, noon andnight. Oh yeah, man, I 598 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: get enough of this lavash. Well yeah, if you have 599 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: a bit of amusement for us, I found that highly amusing. 600 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: Um you can tweet to us at s Y s 601 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: K podcasts. You can hit us up on Facebook at 602 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: facebook dot com, slash stuff you Know, and you can 603 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff 604 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: works dot com. Be sure to check out our new 605 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work 606 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities 607 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: of tomorrow, brought to you by the reinvented two thousand 608 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: twelve camera. It's ready, are you