1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: Holly Fry and I'm Tracy B. Wilson, and we have 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: another episode from Solid Comic com Fanics. Once again, our 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: friend Brian Young was kind enough to guest host since 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Tracy had some conflicts that weekend of the show. And 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: this is the second of two live shows that Brian 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: and I did at the con. The first one, if 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: you haven't already listened, focused on film history in Salt 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Lake City, but for this one, we went a little 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: broader and a little more with touchstones on pop culture, 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: and we talked about some of the mythology of Hitler 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: and the Nazi obsession with the occult, and a little 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: bit about how those stories stacked up to the way 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: they're portrayed in fictional form in the Indiana Jones stories. 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: So for this first segment, Holly and Brian are going 17 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about the looting that was 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: done by the Nazis and an effort to collect art 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: for Hitler, and they'll also touch on the propaganda efforts 20 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: that were cre It's a further the position that the 21 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: Nazi rise to power was somehow part of a divine destiny. Hello, 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: Brian Younges. I'm just waiting for Tracy. I'm sorry. Well, 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: there's part of me that wants you to say, and 25 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson. I'm already going to do something 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: that will make her mad at me. I'm sure, so 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. You can never make 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: me mad at We can start over if you know 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: we're good. Uh so, uh, it is fairly common knowledge. 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna blow anybody's minds with the 31 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: statement that Nazis were pretty prolific leaders during their time. 32 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: We know this from actual history, and even Indiana Jones 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: told us this because the Nazis are constantly racing against 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: our hero to reach these artifacts of great significance that 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: are both historically and mystically important. And so to set 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: the stage so you guys know kind of where we're 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: going on this little paths, we're gonna talk first about 38 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: a couple of Nazi divisions that were set up as 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: part of this ongoing hunt for treasures, and then we're 40 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit about one particular piece of 41 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: art that Hitler really coveted and it's beautiful and amazing, uh, 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: and it's possible significance as a connection to ultimate and 43 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: supreme power. And then we're gonna talk a little bit 44 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: about Nazi gold, uh, including the modern claims that a 45 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: lost cash of gold and other precious items have been found. 46 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: And then we're gonna kind of segue into touching on 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: the ways that Indiana Deeniana Jones film series did and 48 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: did not get the whole Nazi story rights. That's the scoop. 49 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: Are you ready to go, let's do it. So we're 50 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: gonna start with so massive was the quest to accumulate 51 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: important art the Nazis, And actually they created an art 52 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: theft unit and that this was called the e r R. 53 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: And this intensive effort to steal great masterpieces was all 54 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: aimed at fulfilling Hitler's uh incredibly narcissistic dream of creating 55 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: a super museum, the fuer Museum, uh and I'm not 56 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: making that up, which was massive in size, where every 57 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: major piece of art would be housed. Yeah, you'll see 58 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: it sometimes described as the size of an entire city 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: in and of itself, which I have to say, as 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: much as he was clearly a jerk, we know from 61 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: history there's part of it. It's like, man, that would 62 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: be a cool museum. I mean it's from an art 63 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: history standpoint. I'm like, I don't know, could somebody cool 64 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: trying to do that instead? Uh? And as pieces were acquired, 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: they were usually stored because they never actually built this museum, 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: obviously we wouldn't know about it. Um, they were stored 67 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: in the I'm probably going to butcher this. I'm sorry 68 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: any German speakers. Altaz salt mine near the Austrian Alps, 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: and there were an estimated twelve thousand pieces of art 70 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: that were actually successfully stolen and stored there. So he 71 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: really was well on his way to fulfilling this dream. 72 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: So we know that that Hitler was Obviously he was 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: interested in art because he wanted to fill his fuer museum. 74 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: But he was also incredibly interested in the supernatural, which 75 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: is a lot of where the Indiana Jones stories come from. 76 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: So so he was so much interested in the supernatural. 77 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: But on July first, n Heinrich Hindler, the head of 78 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: the SS, established a paranormal research group within the Nazi organization. UH, Uh, 79 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: Pully's gonna have to help me with the pronunciation here, 80 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: since I'm horrible about that. But the the on an Arab, 81 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: which translates to Inheritance of the Forefathers, is also called 82 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: the Ancestral Heritage Research and Teaching Organization, and its job 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: was to research the paranormal. And it sounds like something 84 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: out of a Mike Manola comic book, doesn't it. I mean, 85 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: you see where the influences on a lot of comic 86 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: works come from when you look at some of the 87 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: really weird tendrils that the Nazi Party had out. Uh. 88 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: It's a really rich, rich soil from which to gather. Uh. 89 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: And in February of excavation departments to start of the 90 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: archaeology team of the s S was actually transferred over 91 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: to the on An AIRB, so they were joined together, 92 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: and this officially created the Nazi Archaeology Division and the 93 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: on An Arab and the work that it did was 94 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: so important to Hitler, and he was so into what 95 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: they were doing that he expanded it again in addition 96 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: to that merger UH later during World War Two. So 97 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: a variety of strange and often creepy efforts were made 98 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: by this group. They hunted Yetti in Tibet. Uh. The 99 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: Ark of the Covenant was something they sought in Ethiopia, 100 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: which is where you know, rageously lost ark kind of 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: got their ideas and they hunted for the Holy Grail 102 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: in Uh. I want you to try it, just to 103 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: see langua doc. You're close. It's long doc. If you 104 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: speak French, you'll see it and it looks like it 105 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: says Languedoc and some people say it that way in 106 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the americanized version. Yeah, I'm horrible pronunciation. So I apologize 107 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: to everyone listening to this. You're just fine. Um. So. 108 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: Astrologist were even consulted to help plan military strategy, which 109 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: is absurd on its own. Um. And attempts were made 110 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: to reanimate the dead and create super soldiers of the 111 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: living using a combination of medical science and mysticism, which 112 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: is one of those things you hear and go that 113 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: must have been in the movies. But this was really 114 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: stuff they were doing. Yeah, there have been discoveries of 115 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: Nazi officers that were preserved after their deaths in the 116 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: hopes that they could one day bring them back to life. 117 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: Uh So, anybody that thinks that whole like mythology of 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: Walt Disney's head somewhere like that may sound creepy, but 119 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: they got nothing on Hitler's plans, Like he really had. 120 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: What he was hoping was going to be an army 121 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: of question mark zombie officers. Uh. So, once again, it's 122 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: it's way stranger than anything we could come up with, 123 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: I think in our own minds um. And if you 124 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: believe in the mythology, the hope here was really that 125 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: the on An air was going to find retroactive proof 126 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: of divine providence, specifically supporting Nazi dogmas. So among other things, 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 1: hit Ler allegedly wanted scientific proof somehow that God wanted 128 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party to rise. So uh. But there was 129 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: also sort of on the other side of that, whether 130 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: or not they were successful in finding that proof, there 131 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: was also a big effort at sort of a mysticism 132 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: propaganda where the on An Arab and the great minds 133 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: that were there, I mean, these were incredibly intelligent men 134 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: were really working to kind of build this mythos that 135 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: was going to support the idea of a perfect Areyan 136 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: race and the Nazi goals being tied into that. So 137 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: it was kind of a dual process at that point, 138 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: it was like, we're searching for the proof, but until 139 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: we have the proof, we're gonna make stuff up. And 140 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: they were They were known for their propaganda efforts. I mean, 141 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: you hear about their propaganda efforts everywhere, and that they 142 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: would use mythology like this to play into that, it's 143 00:07:50,760 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: just not surprising. So next up, Brian and I are 144 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: going to talk a little bit about art history and 145 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: how a famous painting may have been part of Hitler's 146 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: hopes for ultimate power. And we're also going to talk 147 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: a little bit about the monuments Men, both the movie 148 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: and the book, and you will get some bonus unhappy 149 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: baby noises. So the next thing we're going to talk 150 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: about is a really important outside of any of the 151 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: Nazi story. It's a really important piece of art historically, 152 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: and that is the adoration of the mystic Lamb. And 153 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: this is an example of non gold quests that Hitler 154 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: directed in search of both art and mystical power connected 155 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: to the same painting. So we're going to talk a 156 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: little bit about this painting. So the painting is considered 157 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: by many to be one of the most influential paintings 158 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: of all time. It was first it was commissioned by 159 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: Hubert vonike Uh and then his brother after he died, 160 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: finished it and took him eight years to finish Uh 161 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: and his name is Jan Vonis. And it was the 162 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: Adoration of the Mystic Lamb. And it's one of only 163 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: four pieces of art mentioned in the Treaty of Versailles 164 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: as part of a stipulation that this work must be 165 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: returned to Belgium from Germany. And that particular fact fact 166 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: always just stuck in Hitler's kraw. Hitler notoriously hated the 167 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Treaty of Versaill and much of what he did in 168 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: undoing that, undoing it through World War Two in the 169 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: beginnings of that were directly direct results of his his 170 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: hatred for it. Um. The Adoration of the Mystic Lamb 171 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: was also the first major oil painting when it was 172 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: completed in fourteen thirty two, and he's the most stolen 173 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: painting of all time, which is kind of a dubious 174 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: um note of honor. But what's really interesting is that 175 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,479 Speaker 1: the Nazis, and specifically Hitler and Harmon Garring, were obsessed 176 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: with this painting and they both wanted it desperately. They 177 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: each wanted it for themselves so bad that this became 178 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: like a a long train of maneuvering in one upmanship, 179 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: where like the shipment would be headed to Garing's house 180 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: and Hitler would divert it somehow and then try to 181 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: get it to his place, and then the other guy 182 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: would step in, and they were kind of playing this. 183 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm hoping good natured. I don't know how you can 184 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: say good nature tied to either of them, but they 185 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: had this rivalry about it that they were both trying 186 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: to steal it from each other. At the same time, 187 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: they were super obsessed with its mystic power. So the 188 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: reason for this obsession they were buried. Obviously, the adoration 189 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 1: of the mystic land falls into the category of major art. 190 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: Uh So it fits the bill for the Fear or 191 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: museum plan that they wanted to carry out. But it 192 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: was also important to Hitler because it was in the 193 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: Northern Renaissance style, which Hitler had an affinity for, and 194 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: the subject of the painting is both holy and mystic. 195 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: Uh So it just sort of like there were a 196 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: lot of check boxes of criteria that he wanted to 197 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: to collect for his propaganda and for his museum, and 198 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: this just hit all of them. And it's important to 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: note as we start of talk about Hillier in his 200 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: obsession with our you guys know, he was a painter 201 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: before he was a weasel, right, Like, he started out 202 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: as a painter, but he wasn't very good at it. Uh, 203 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: so I guess the weasel path was the better option 204 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: for him. He seemed to have some proclivities there. But 205 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: this painting is really really lovely. It features more than 206 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: one hundred different figures. But at the center of the work, 207 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: this is really where things get very important. Uh. There's 208 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: an altar with a sacrificial lamb on it, and that 209 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: is a representation of Christ. And this lamb is bleeding 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: into a representation of the Holy Grail. And if rumors 211 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: are correct, uh, because you don't have a you know, 212 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: Hitler never like went on record saying this, but it 213 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: is believed that he thought that the painting contained a 214 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: code and that that code was going to reveal a 215 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,239 Speaker 1: map to the Arm of Christie. The Arm of Chreastie, 216 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: known in English, is the instruments of Christ's Passion, uh, 217 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: consists of the physical objects related to the story of 218 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: Christ's life cycle. These include the crown of thor is 219 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: the Holy Grail, the Cross of Crucifixion, Jesus burial shroud, 220 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: and the sphere of Destiny. And if you're familiar with 221 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the pop culture around this, these are 222 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: objects that come up a lot. Yeah. I mean, they're 223 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: sort of interesting and fascinating historically, and because people have 224 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: attached so much mystical power to them, it's natural that 225 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: they would really sow the seeds for some pretty interesting fiction. Uh. 226 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: And it probably won't surprise anyone to hear that many people, 227 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: including Hitler, believe that if a human could possess the 228 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: objects of the Arma Christie, that he or she could 229 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: take on supernatural powers. And who doesn't want that? Uh? 230 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: And Hitler was really really into this idea that he 231 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: was going to get these things and use his newfound 232 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: supernatural juju to win the war and complete the third 233 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: rights rise to power, and so this would cement his 234 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: place as this would kind of fall in line with 235 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: that idea that God wanted him to have this power, 236 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: and it would submit his place as the leader really 237 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: of the world eventually was his hope. On April tenth, 238 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: ninety four, one of a dozen oak panels from the 239 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: Adoration of the Mystic Land was stolen from the St. 240 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: Babo Cathedral in Ghent, Belgium. Uh. And if you're wondering 241 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: only why why why only one panel was snatched, It's 242 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: possibly at least in part because the work, which is 243 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: also called the Ghent Altarpiece uh, is mammoth. It's it 244 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: weighs approximately two tons and it's the size of a 245 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: barn door. Yeah, that's not something you just like stick 246 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: under your shirt and run with. Um. Oh that poor child. Uh. 247 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: So this missing panel is also known as the Righteous 248 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: Judges panel, and this features a group of wise men. 249 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: And in nine before the Nazis had the other eleven panels, uh, 250 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: the Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Gabbot's and s S leader 251 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: Heinrich Kimlair were hatching this plan that they were going 252 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: to find the missing Righteous Judges Panel because they wanted 253 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: to give it as a gift to Hitler. Uh. They 254 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: didn't find it. But the fact that that that specific 255 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: panel was stolen perhaps to keep it out of Nazi 256 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: hands uh, and then was hunted for by key leaders 257 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: in the Nazi party has continued to give weight to 258 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: the idea that it perhaps did carry this map that 259 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: Hitler believed in. Um, it's it's interesting in the whole 260 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: gain To Alterpiece. Uh, it doesn't get into Indiana Jones. 261 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: But if you've seen the film monuments Men, that's sort 262 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: of the the crux of that movie is them finding 263 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: the stolen pieces of the gain To Alterpiece that the 264 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: Nazis made away with, and that that the movie mallishes 265 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: a lot, as movies do, but it's based on a 266 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: really great, uh nonfiction book called Curiously the monuments Men 267 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: UM by Robert Edgel with Brett Twitter and Uh, it's 268 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: just a really fascinating story and the movie is just 269 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: fun to watch. And even if the movie is not 270 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: as accurate, like the shots in the movie of the 271 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: gain To Alterpiece or just gorge just to look at. Yeah, 272 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: it's one of those paintings that you've seen. It kind 273 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: of box you back. There's just so much to it 274 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: and you understand why it's so incredibly important in our history. Uh. 275 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: But now we're going to shift off of arts, as 276 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: much as I would like to talk about it forever, 277 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about Nazi gold. Uh So, when it 278 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: came to gold looting under the Nazis, if you don't 279 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: know about any of this, you might brace it's a 280 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: little gruesome. Um, they left no stone unturned, and there 281 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: is even evidence that they took gold out of the 282 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: fillings of teeth of people in concentration camps and then 283 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: melted that down and reused it to make gold fillings 284 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: for Nazi officers. It's so gross, including Hitler himself. So 285 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: a document discovered in two thousand nine indicated that Hitler's 286 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: dentists had on hand eleven pounds of dental gold collected 287 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: at concentration camps and kept on hand for the treatment 288 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: of those senior Nazi officers. And while eleven pounds doesn't 289 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: seem like a lot in terms of gold, it is. 290 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: And when you consider that it was extracted from existing fillings, 291 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: it's that that represents a lot of fillings and a 292 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: lot of gold. Yeah. I mean, if you have a filling, 293 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: you know it's a dinky amount in your tooth. So 294 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: that's a lot of people's gold teeth that were gold 295 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: fillings that were used. But of course they also took 296 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: gold jewelry from prisoners. Uh. And there's really no telling 297 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: how many gold objects were stolen throughout Europe during the 298 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: Nazi looting enterprise and then melted down and recast into 299 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: ingots with the Nazi stamp on them. And because of 300 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: the recasting process, it's really impossible to identify the sources 301 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: that those gold ingots were made from. For many years 302 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: there was a legend of a lost train loaded with 303 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: gold and other treasures that the Nazis tried to get 304 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: out of eastern Germany as the Soviets approached at the 305 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: end of World War Two. And you'll see a little 306 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: bit of that in Monuments to not just Gold but 307 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: Trains full of art. It's just a good movie and 308 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: it pushes all my history and art nerd buttons in 309 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: all the right ways. Um. But according to the story, 310 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: the train entered a tunnel complex and Poland and vanished. 311 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: It was never seen again. But this story about this 312 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: train going into this tunnel and then vanishing, while it 313 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: sounds like a really good sort of ghostie story, it 314 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: is basically this account is based on a situation of 315 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: relayed information, like a wacky game of telephone, where it's 316 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: sort of like I heard it from my friend who 317 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: as a cousin who works with a guy who says 318 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: he talked to somebody that saw that train go into 319 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: that tunnel. So there's really not solid evidence. It's all 320 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: circumstantial and kind of word of mouth. Uh. There was 321 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: a secret Nazi base that was under construction beneath the 322 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: Polish Owl Mountain range where the train is alleged to 323 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: have been hidden, but that base was never completed. So 324 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: you guys talked about this about this gold train in 325 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: the Amber room in your Unearthed episode at the end 326 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 1: it's twenty fifteen, actually, and there's we're going to give 327 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: a bit of a recap with some additional information. Yeah, 328 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: last year many experts refuted the idea that any such 329 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: train ever existed. Uh, they did work based on magnetic, gravimetric, 330 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: and geo radar studies, and the issue had been brought 331 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: back into public focus by claims that the train had 332 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: been located and that a dig should immediately ensue. And 333 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: the two men who believed that they had found the train, 334 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: fus R Cooper and Andrea's Richter, Uh still believe in 335 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: the existence of the train, and based on the fact 336 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,959 Speaker 1: that they have found what was once a tunnel entrance 337 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: that has been closed over. They really continued their assertion 338 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: that there has to be a train somewhere in those tunnels. 339 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: So according to Cobra and Richter, they were given information 340 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: by a witness to the cunning and stealthy stashing of 341 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: the train. Their alleged witness told that the Nazis, Uh 342 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: told told them the Nazis dug out an embankment to 343 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: lay out the diversion track, which they routed the train down, 344 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: and then once the train was secure, they removed all 345 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: the rails and reburied the embankment, which would make it 346 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: invisible to anyone and make it easy to lose. And 347 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: it sounds like one of those amazing high stories, like 348 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: how could they pull it off? But the Nazis were organized, 349 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: they had some skills, and they were able to really 350 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: like put plans into action, so it's not completely outside 351 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: the realm of possibility that they could have done something 352 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: like that. But again, there's no real scientific proof that 353 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: this train is sitting there. But there are a number 354 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: of reasons that this story gained so much traction and 355 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: is really held on, and there really are camps of 356 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: sort of like believers, despite evidence to the contrary. Uh 357 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: and Krakow's Mining Academy completed all these surveys and they 358 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: found absolutely nothing. But part of the appeal is that, 359 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: I mean, people love a juicy lost treasure story. I do, 360 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: sure many of you do. Uh. And the idea of 361 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: claiming gold that was stolen by the Nazis has its 362 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: own appeal. It doesn't really need an explanation. Of course, 363 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: we want to write the wrongs that were committed by 364 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: those people. So another reason, it's a very exciting story. 365 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: And it's a beneficial story to Poland um and specifically 366 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: to one city. So the district governor of Walbrick, is 367 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: that right, I think so where the gold Train was 368 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: alleged to be buried, told the Guardian last year quote, 369 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: I'm no in Indiana Jones, but my colleagues and the 370 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: rest of Poland now call me the gold Governor. We're 371 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 1: in a special economic zone. Life is tough, but the 372 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: gold Train has brought a tourism boom. So you can 373 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: see where people would want to propagate the story. I mean, 374 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: it was really beneficial to some areas of Poland that 375 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: we're struggling financially, and so I mean, I can't blame 376 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: them for wanting to kind of make a positive out 377 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: of this situation. But that brings us because the Governor 378 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: kindly mentioned Indiana Jones to Indiana Jones. But first we'll 379 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: have a word from us pot. So now to finish 380 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: off the chat with Brian Young about Nazis and Art, 381 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: Holly and Brian are going to talk a little bit 382 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: about how the stories of the Nazis obsessions with the 383 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: paranormal and the and the precious shaped some of the 384 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: story elements from the Indiana Jones films, and then how 385 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: we are ready for this last chunk of our actual 386 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: history US and which is where we start talking about 387 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: the Indiana Jones versions of these stories and in terms 388 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: of tone, the Indiana Jones movies really got a lot right. 389 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: Of course, many of those plot elements we've mentioned several 390 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: times were inspired by Hitler's well documented paranormal and occult obsessions. 391 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: So in Raiders Have Lost Arc, which is the first 392 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: film in the Indiana Jones saga, even early on it's 393 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: remarked that one can understand Hitler's interest in the arc 394 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: it shoots lightning, I don't know, power of God or something. 395 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: Marcus has that fantastically delivered line early on in the 396 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: film the Army which carries the Ark before It is 397 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: invincible and certainly in line with Hitler's belief that holy 398 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: relics would grant him supernatural power. And I feel compelled 399 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: to note that while that is the first film released 400 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: in the series, if you go chronologically time wise, Temple 401 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: of Doom is first. And I'm gonna go on record 402 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: and probably get booed. Tebla Doo is my favorite Indiana 403 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: Jones movie. I love Willie Scott. Oh, I love Wily Scott. 404 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: It's my second favorite actually, after Raiders Are the Lost Art. 405 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: I love that movie. And what I really love is 406 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: that if you watch the movies chronologically now, the Indian 407 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: and Joanes series starts with a big song and dance number. 408 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the most bizarre and wonderful thing, 409 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: uh and completely out of tone for the rest of 410 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: the series. But I'm just delight in it. So we 411 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that the Nazi division the on An Arab 412 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: looked for the Ark of the Covenant in Ethiopia, and 413 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: that is a counter to where it lands in Raiders. 414 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: In that version, the digging happened in Tannis, Egypt, and 415 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: perhaps at the time, Egypt seemed more romantic than Ethiopia. 416 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: Although there have been real world theories that the Arc 417 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: ended up in Tannis, so it's possibly a case where 418 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: it just seemed a little bit more plausible in terms 419 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: of screenwriting than the area where the Nazis lived. Although 420 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: film has always been really sort of obsessed with Egypt, Yeah, 421 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about like archaeology, like Egypt is 422 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: sort of that mystical land. Yes, so um. Moving forward 423 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: to indianay Owns. In the Last Crusade, once again it's 424 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: Marcus Brody who utters the words which we we link 425 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: back to the beliefs of Hitler, though from the beloved 426 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: friend of India it sounds charming rather than insidious, and 427 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: he says the search for the Cup of Christ is 428 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: the search for the divine and all of us. I 429 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: love Marcus Brodie. I do too, which is why Last 430 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: Crusade is sort of mind least favorite, because they turned 431 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: him into kind of a joke. It's hard. Although I 432 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: like a lot of back guys to a big Bellock 433 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: fan who even they call them blosh, well they do 434 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: there in Tennis. But yeah, I'm just saying I like that. 435 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I like that LIZARDI French dude. Um, I have this 436 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: I don't want them to ever remake it, don't get 437 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: me wrong, but I have this thing in my head 438 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: where if they ever remake it, clearly Vincent Cassel shall 439 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: play that part, because he's in that same genre of 440 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: lizardy Frenchmen that are oddly appealing. Um. But just as 441 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: as was the case of readers at the Lost Arc 442 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: in the Last Crusade, we find out that what they 443 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: really did was they got the tone and the idea 444 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: of this session and hunt correct. Uh. But the Nazis 445 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: interest in an item had kind of shifted in the 446 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: reality in terms of location. So in reality that on 447 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: an airb hunted for the Holy Grail in the former 448 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: French province of Languedoc, but in the film the Grail 449 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: chase leads to the Canyon of the Crescent Moon, once 450 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: again a very romantic looking desert scenario, which in reality 451 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: is in Jordan's certainly not France. Uh. And then in 452 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: terms of the last sort of not quite real obviously, 453 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: the Indiana Jones series has a bunch of wacky hi 454 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: jinks that are not grounded in reality, even though the 455 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: searches for these things are real. And I don't know, 456 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: do you think the Nazis ever specifically targeted a father 457 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: son archaeology teams. Wouldn't it be great if? Um no? 458 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: I I think no, But it wouldn't be great, Like, 459 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't that be a wondrous discovery that's somewhere out there 460 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: there had been two men hunting for the same thing 461 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: and hunted by Nazis. It makes a really great story, 462 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: it does. I love the Indie movies and I love 463 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: talking about Nazi history because it's fascinating. I almost feel 464 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: like that rubber Necker at a at an accident, where 465 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: it's like it's so terrible, but I'm so fascinated by it, 466 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: And just the concept of so much intense and insane ideology, 467 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: so focused and so far reaching. I mean, I just 468 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: don't even know how you could pull off something like 469 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: that today. Well, that that level of fanaticism is something 470 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: that that you know, maybe we feel as unique to 471 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: the Nazis, but maybe maybe it could. I don't maybe 472 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: it could happen. We hope not. Alright. So that was 473 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: my conversation with Brian about this topic. But we actually 474 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: have a little more because of recent developments, because the 475 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: Nazi gold Train is a developing story. Of course, a 476 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: new set of reports came out right after this live 477 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: episode was recorded. It's not really a huge update or anything, 478 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: but it ties to this episode and our Unearthed episodes 479 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: from the end of So at the end of March 480 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: of this year, this is there were actually protests in 481 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: Poland at the site where the Nazi gold train is 482 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: believed by some to be even though there has been 483 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: very thorough surveying of the area which found no suggestion 484 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: of the train, there are residents that live around there. Again, 485 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: we talked about how this is kind of an economically 486 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: depressed area right now, uh, and these residents really want 487 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: the dig to move forward, and it appears that excavation 488 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: may finally soon get under way, so perhaps we will 489 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: have some new news, some real news soon. But I 490 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: really feel compelled also to point out that this news 491 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: has only really been filtered out and reported in kind 492 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: of tabloid style papers, so it's either not well substantiated, 493 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: although they do have quotes from the two men that 494 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: are behind this effort, or most press kind of feels 495 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: like this case really was closed after the surveys in 496 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: late found nothing really of merit. Yeah, even when we 497 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: were doing our Unearthed episodes. It was this back and forth, 498 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: yes it is no, it isn't, Yes it is no, 499 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: it isn't, and then finally ending with ah, yeah. So 500 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: they did all those geologic surveys, uh that we've talked 501 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: about in the live show, and they really feel like 502 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: there's nothing there. Most of the scientists that have studied 503 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: the area feel like there's nothing there. But there are 504 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: enough people that still think, no, we really think you 505 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: maybe didn't catch it, and there is still something here 506 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: that they're still fighting, you know, to to get it 507 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: unearthed and excavated and see if there's maybe some exciting 508 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: treasure down there. Uh. So if you want to hear 509 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: more from Brian Young, my fabulous co host on this one, 510 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: you can find him just about everywhere. The book that 511 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: we featured in our live show last October is a 512 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: children's illustrated history of presidential assassination. I know lots of 513 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: our listeners have bought it since they heard that episode, 514 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: and we have only heard rave reviews of it. Uh. 515 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: And his newest book, which is titled The Aeronaut, is 516 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: an alternate history fiction spy thriller. It is set in 517 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 1: World War One, and you can find those books and 518 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: him at Brian Young fiction dot com, or you can 519 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: connect with him on Twitter at swank Motron. And I 520 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: want to once again thanks Salt Like Comic Con for 521 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: having me out to the show. I was there for 522 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: five days and it was absolutely a blast every single day. 523 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: I had so much fun and such a delightful time. 524 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: And it's a great show that's very fan oriented. It's 525 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: not so much like a big marketing presence type con. 526 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: So if you like more fan style cons, this might 527 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: be a great one to check out. Again that it 528 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: is Salt Like Comic Con fan x and they're amazing, 529 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: So thank you again for having me. Do you also 530 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: have someone her, ma'am? I do? Uh? And this is 531 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: one that I again it's something somebody made for us, 532 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: because we've been getting a lot of really amazing handmade things. Uh. 533 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: And this is from our listener Jillian, who has some 534 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful handwriting. It is so neat on 535 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: Earth and she says hello from beautiful banf Tracy and Holly, 536 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for the many hours of knowledge 537 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: and entertainment. I often cross stitch while listening, but quickly 538 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: realized that family and friends can only own so many 539 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: cross stitch pieces to be able to keep my hands busy, 540 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 1: I had to think of people outside of my circle. Holly, 541 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: I saw this pattern and immediately thought of you. I 542 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: hope it fits in well with your Haunted Mansion collection. 543 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: Cheers Jillian. Oh my gosh, she cross stitched me this 544 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: beautiful portrait of the hitchhiking ghost from the Haunted Mansion 545 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: with the Hanted Mansion in the background. It is so 546 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: cute and I'm absolutely hanging it in my living room 547 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: with all of my other Hanted Mansion pieces. I love it, 548 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: love it, love it so much. Thank you so much, Jillian. 549 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: I can never really tell you how much I appreciate 550 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: all of these things that people make for us, because 551 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: they're beautiful and they're so pretty. Everybody knows I'm like 552 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: a big art doork and I love art and creativity, 553 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: so it really always just blows me away and delights 554 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: me to to have that be something that people want 555 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: to share with us. I love it, love it, love it. 556 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us about your 557 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: love of art and creativity or anything else, you can 558 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: do so at History Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. 559 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: You can also connect to us at Facebook dot com 560 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: slash mist in history, or on Twitter at miss in History. 561 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: You can find us at pinterest at pinterest dot com, 562 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: slash mist in history at miss in history dot tumbler 563 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: dot com, and on Instagram at missed Industry. If you 564 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: would like to learn a little bit more about what 565 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: Brian and I talked about, you can go to our 566 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: parents site, how stuff Works. Type in the word Nazis 567 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: in the search bar and you will get an article 568 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: called what did the Nazis have to do with Archaeology 569 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: among a variety of other topics on the subject. Uh. 570 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: If you would like to visit us, you can do 571 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: that at missed in history dot com, where you can 572 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: sign show notes for every episode Tracy and I have 573 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: worked on together, as well as an archive of every 574 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: episode ever of the show of All Time from way 575 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: back when it was just a few minutes long in 576 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: the very beginning, and we encourage you come and visit 577 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: us at missed in history dot com and how stuff 578 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: Works dot com for more on this and thousands of 579 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: other topics. Because it has to works dot Com