WEBVTT - Ep. 247: Sterlin Harjo - Seminole Filmmaker 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.560 I didn't know we were sneaking. I just thought we're hanging, 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:09.959 and so we would go over there and we would hunt. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:11.840 I didn't know right at first, but at some point 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.800 I realized it wasn't our land. Whose land is he 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.279 my dad? Like some Texas ranchers, but they're never here early. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:19.680 We're gonna hunt it, you know. So we would go 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:20.640 over there and we'd hunt it. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.080 On this episode, we're traveling to the big city of Tulsa, Oklahoma, 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.280 to meet its most famous filmmaker, a member of the 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:34.400 Muskogee Creek and Seminole Nation, Sterling Harjoe. He's forty four 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.040 years old, a lifelong resident of Oklahoma, and has risen 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.160 to the top tier of his craft, taking an unconventional path. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.280 After taking a big swing at the Hollywood filmmaking scene, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.440 he ditched it and went home to Oklahoma to make 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.600 honest movies about his people, and it ended up being 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.440 the best thing he could have ever done. His work 0:00:55.440 --> 0:01:00.000 has recently risen to national prominence, receiving multiple awards, even 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.880 nominated for an Emmy, and it seems there's only more 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.800 to come. I'd say he's a unique guest for Bear 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.679 Grease and say you might, how does this fancy filmmaker 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:15.800 have anything to do with gritty, rural Americano livin. Well, 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.080 you're about to find out. Sterling and his people fit 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.640 right in here. And this story is replete with deer hunting, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:28.520 beauty salons, taekwondo, trespassing, leasing from rich dudes, and Sterling's 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.800 very serious problem with owls and cracking into the film industry. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.000 I really doubt that you're gonna want to miss this one. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.520 And hey, deer season's coming up, and if you're looking 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.760 for the best all around deer call, check out the 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.639 Acorn Pro that's spelled a ker n spelled the right way. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.880 Acorn Pro from Phelps. It's the industry's only inhale, exhale, 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.320 grunt and bleak call. Me and Jason Phelps and the 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.320 team work together built this call. It's my favorite call 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.920 and it's just in time for hunting season on the 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.080 Phelps website. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.560 I didn't know making films would be possible. I didn't 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.760 know it was a job, but I was always interested 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.359 in I remember when Michael Jackson's Thriller came out of 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.120 the making of Thriller, I was fascinated. I was just like, 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.200 what like there's makeup artists that turned them into a 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:22.680 werewolf and all of that. You know, I was really 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.000 fascinated with behind the scenes, but I never thought I 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.240 could do it. It was like, I'm from Oklahoma. I'm 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.640 an Indian from Oklahoma. You know how am I going 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.280 to make movies like you gotta be? You gotta be 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:34.240 in Hollywood or something. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.280 My name is Clay Nukem and this is the Bear 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:51.320 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.040 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.840 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:05.600 land by FHF gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.160 fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:20.400 places we explore. I've found myself on the fourth floor 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:25.119 of an office building in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma, and on 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.280 the door it says, screaming Eagle Media, this is Sterling 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.120 Harjo's office. It's on the top floor with access to 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.880 the roof, with lots of big windows overlooking the city, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.160 couches a kitchen, sterling things that used to belong to 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.640 an oil company in the seventies, and they entertained. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:44.960 People up here. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.160 There's a guitar propped up in the corner, and on 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.240 the walls are posters of the show reservation dogs with 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:57.480 varying images of four sharply dressed teenagers. I'd say they're native. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.800 Sterling's a stout fella. I'd say he's a touch taller 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.240 than me, and he's wearing a cool felt hat with 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.480 a band of Indian beadwork. His shirt looks like Hawaiian print, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.640 but when you look closely, it's got tepees and drums, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.800 Indians riding horses and tomahawks in the pattern. Kind of 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.200 jealous of it. His arms are covered in tattoos, and 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.880 upon closer inspection, one is of a black panther. I 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.159 told you he'd fit in here, and wait till you 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.839 hear about the owls. But what stands out to me 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.560 most about Sterling is what a nice and inviting guy 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.960 he is. He's ordered the best barbecue in Tulsa that'll 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.040 be here in just a little bit. I'm learning that 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.760 when you go to Oklahoma and want to break bread 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.200 with you. But for now, I'm pretty much gonna let 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.760 Sterling tell us his life story. 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.320 Uh yeah, my name's Sterling. Harjoe, I am Muskogee Creek 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:56.599 and Seminole, and also Italian and Scottish and German and 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.880 other things. But well, I was born in Holding the 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.880 Oklahoma and I grew up Holdenvills in Hughes County. It's 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.960 on the Muscogy Creek and Seminole nation line, and so 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.320 a lot of us that are native down there are 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:15.200 both Seminole and Creek, which is like, you know, it's 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.320 a pretty good deal because the two tribes are very 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.159 intertwined and to the point where we speak the same language. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.400 The Moscogy Creeks were a confederacy. I always heard that 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.320 the Muscogee language was a trade language, and so all 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.400 of the all the different bands and groups that made 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.359 up the Muscogee Creek Nation, they all had like a 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.000 shared trade language. The customs in the way of life 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:41.720 is very similar, and so that's where I grew up. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.360 I now live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm the filmmaker. I 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.600 created the show Reservation Dogs as an independent filmmaker before that, 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:54.480 sort of just grinding making no budget movies with an 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:59.960 insatiable sort of need to tell the truth and stories 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.679 about who we are as Native people and what I 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.640 saw growing up which led me to making the show 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.480 Reservation Dogs, and it's been a very successful show and 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:16.200 we were just nominated for our first Emmy's. Yeah, it's 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.400 been a crazy couple of years. My life sort of 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.200 turned upside down. Very happy that I still live here 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.240 in Tulsa and I'm able to sort of be close 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:33.360 to my family and friends and that's who I am. Yeah, 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.719 I grew up in Holdenville. Holdenville was you know, it 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.120 was a cool place. I have nothing but like the 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.920 best memories from growing up in Holdenville. I mean rural Oklahoma, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.919 but yeah, it was just sort of an idyllic place 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.960 to grow up. I mean it was so diverse. I 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.880 had white friends, black friends, native friends. We all got along. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.640 Everybody knew each other's grandma. It was just like I 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.400 would never pick another place to grow up. You sort 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:02.360 of get those values of being from a rural area. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.040 I think, you know, if the zombie apocalypse happened today, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.520 I wouldn't hang out Tulsa. I would go to my hometown, 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.040 you know, where somebody could like grow their food and 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.520 ring a chicken's neck, you know, like that's where I'd go. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.040 I had it the best of both worlds where I 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:21.520 had just giant Native family and then I had my 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.520 white grandma, who was a smaller family, but like both 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.360 sides were the best storytellers ever, you know, and we 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.680 come from like people that were poor. And from a 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.400 young age though, I always wanted to be an artist, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.680 and my dad and my uncle taught me how to draw. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.480 And I remember I won a competition for drawing at 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.680 the first National Bank and I won ten dollars and 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.320 I thought I was rich. And it was about pollution. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.400 And I drew this like lake with all these fish 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:57.840 and animals, you know, dying, and I would I got 0:07:57.840 --> 0:07:59.760 a picture of the you know, my picture is like 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.160 cover of the whole Middle newspaper. And from the very 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.320 beginning of my memories, that's what I knew I wanted 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.880 to do. What I didn't know is I was also 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.360 really getting into movies. The whole time. I just didn't 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:17.400 know it was possible to make movies. And so one 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.280 thing that's interesting. My grandma on my mom's side, who's 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.440 my Native grandma, and then my grandpa on mother's side, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.000 was Native and both full blood Native, which made my 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.240 parents half which two haves together make me which I'm 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.680 half and so my native grandma, Johnny May was her name, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.240 Johnny May Kalinach. There was a thing called the Relocation Act, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.400 and back in the day, and it was sort of 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.840 this way of hey, Indians, come work in the city. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.280 You'll get a good job, you know, and be able 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.720 to pay your family. I kind of think it was 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:52.120 more to hey, Indians, get away from your community, assimilate 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.599 into America, because there was such a threat to America 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.720 the community community aspect of our lives, you know there 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:06.520 and there was like so many government policies that were 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:11.240 in direct assault of that community. The DAWs Act, you know, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:13.880 we'll give you one hundred and eighty acres of individual land. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.800 You can do whatever you want with it. Well, in 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:17.800 a couple of years somebody's going to come and try 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:19.880 to swindle you out of it as well, if you 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.280 look at like Killers of the Flower Moon and all 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.520 of that stuff's connected. But really it was to break 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.480 up the fact that these all of the tribes had 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.120 communal living. There was no homelessness, there was no there 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.839 was no body gone hungry, you know, we worked together 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.520 to feed each other. Something about that offended I think 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.840 the US government. There was a lot of policy towards 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.080 Native Americans to disrupt that. My grandma and then went 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.160 to Chicago to work in factories. Luckily they all came 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.000 back home, but not before my grandma fell in love 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.480 with an Italian man named Rock clinicch Nor. George was 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.160 his name, but he went by Rock and they fell 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.640 in love. Had my uncle em my mom in Chicago, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.520 and then they all aunts and uncles, everybody moved back 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.959 home to rural Oklahoma. There's a giant Native community in 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:11.079 Chicago still, but down in rural Oklahoma now there is 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.360 a gang and ens with the last name Kalinich, so 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.040 you know. And then my dad's Harjo. Harjo is a 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.400 from a Moscoi word. The original word is hajo, which 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.960 means crazy in battle, crazy for short. So that's what 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.640 my last name means. And so I grew up in 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.200 this pretty fascinating place. My mom was a hairdresser. She 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:40.120 permed ever's eighties. She permed every cheerleader's hair. She gave 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.320 every football player a haircut before the Friday night game. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.599 And she ended up having to quit because she was 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.760 allergic to perm chemicals and it messed her hands up. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.200 But I grew up kind of in this salon, this 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.199 barber shop, and I just kind of grew up with 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.200 the community coming through this place. My dad was a 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.360 construction worker but also martial arts in my town, and 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.880 so he became a Taekwondo instructor when I was four 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.920 years old. I remember the first lessons were taught in 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:11.280 a basement of church, and I fought competitively with my dad, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.560 who just retired the school hard dressed martial arts last year. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.240 And my dad's kind of like he if my dad 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:19.920 could choose his way of life, he'd be in the 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.240 middle of the woods without a road as long as 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.560 he had cable, you know, like come outside and hunt 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.720 whatever and then come back and watch football or whatever. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.320 And and my dad was kind of a hippie, you know, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.480 Natives were like the best hippie, like a Southern hippie, though, 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.360 like like we're very I think Southern hippies are very 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.840 different California hippies, you know, like Southern hippies will still 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.920 like eat a squirrel, you know, but like wore bell bottoms, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.120 you know. And you know, my dad had long hair 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.440 because he was a hippie and he was Native, and 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.959 he would go to school and you couldn't have long hair, 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.720 so my dad would wear a wig. That it would 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.200 be our late sixties in holding the and my dad 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.120 wear a wig to school. And one of the principles 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.760 was like on the hunt for my dad for growing 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.120 his hair out too long. And one day he yanked 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.280 the yanked the wig off my dad, and my dad's 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.520 hair comes out, and my dad quit school. You know, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.080 he was a sophomore and he quit school, and he 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.360 was kind of a football star and he quit, and 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.280 he's always I think he always regretted that. You know, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.719 my mom is a very outgoing person who is like 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:24.920 she taught me what it's what it means to be 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.720 a part of a community. She is a person that 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.400 no matter what, if somebody died, even if they weren't 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.400 our family, she was taking food to them. My mom, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.360 I for me, really represents that communal aspect of Native 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.760 life where she's always like taking me with her to 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.199 events and gatherings and feasts and wild onion dinners is 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.000 a big thing that we have in the spring. She 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.680 was always taking to me these things and every time 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.320 we walked in, she'd say, go shake everybody's hand, and 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.520 I have to go shake everyone's hand in that room, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.240 and she'd be like, that's because and that's because, and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.480 that's because, that's because, that's because that's causin that's just 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.520 a cous you know. It's like how many cousins do 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.280 I have? And how am I going to get married? 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.240 You know, And so I'd have to go through it 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.480 to shake everybody's hand, and I hated it then, but 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.720 now it's like it's I'm so happy because everybody knows me. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.120 And it translated into me getting a lot of respect 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.480 and trust with making movies and stuff. And that's a 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.800 big reason why I also didn't leave, is because when 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.920 I make these films, I'm telling stories about my people, 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.800 and I'm going to incorporate them into what I'm telling 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.120 because I want it to be real. And I don't 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.040 think enough people in Hollywood and modern sort of entertainment 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.000 to care about that enough, because it's about money, it's 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.880 not about trying to tell the truth. So, like, I 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.040 grew up with pretty fascinating people and community driven people, 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.520 but they were very supportive. My parents are still together, 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.600 I've got two brothers, two sisters, and yeah, it was 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.480 just it was a cool existence. I mean, I felt 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.640 very much like stand by Me. You know, like growing 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.679 up it was like we walked all over town looking 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.080 for a dead body. You know, It's like anything interesting 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:21.280 that could happen, you know. I think growing up in Oklahoma, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:23.600 I don't know. I mean like I grew up with 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.800 my dad was always hunting. I mean, here's the thing. 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:33.280 The sort of more conscious conservation came to me later. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.880 When we were young. It was like, it's our land, well, 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.600 wherever we want, and what are you talking about? You know, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:42.400 like we got to report in with you, like who 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.440 are you? You know, like I think that when I 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.840 was young, it was like what fish and holl are 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.040 we going to sneak into? And me and my cousin 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.560 were fourteen, driving my dad's car and like dirt roads 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.360 and like we'd go fishing and somebody's land like whatever. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.600 And then you know, there's an episode, episode six or 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.200 the first season where it's just the father and daughter hunting. 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.920 That's all it is. And that's kind of the north 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.720 star of my first season was I want to be 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.520 able to get the audience to where I can just 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.120 film a father and daughter in the woods. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.960 Here's a short clip from Reservation Dogs. A father and 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.280 his teenage daughter are dressed in camo and hunter's orange. 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.280 Their faces are painted and both have a rifle in 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.200 their hand. In this scene, the daughter realizes that they 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.640 don't own the land that they're hunting on. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.560 Where'd you get the picture of a trail camp? I 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.760 don't own a trail camp? What what do you mean? 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:45.120 Whose is it? Then it's probably the owners? Eh, owners, Yep, 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.520 don't we own this line? No, we're Indian. We don't 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.120 own a land. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.360 The father then explains to the girl that this land 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.000 used to be theirs, but her great grandfather had sold it. 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.440 She asked if they'll ever get it back, and the 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:07.160 dad basically says Texas ranchers don't give anything back. She 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.960 then says that she saw some images of people on 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.560 the trail camera, and the father tells her that they 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.720 were probably poachers, and then he pauses for a minute 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.240 and he goes, well, different poachers than us. And it's 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:25.000 a brilliant scene and one that Sterling lived. I appreciate 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.240 his honesty. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:31.880 And it's very much based on me and my dad 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.280 because we would sneak over I thought it was our land. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.680 We'd sneak over across the road this giant acreage of 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.760 land across our dirt road where we lived on a 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.440 hill outside of Holtonville. I didn't know what we were sneaking. 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.800 I just thought we're hanging. And so we would go 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.400 over there and we would hunt. And I didn't know 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.400 right at first, but at some point I realized it 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.320 wasn't our land. Whose land is? He my dad like 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.520 some Texas ranchers. But we're never hearing. Really we're gonna 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:59.680 hunt it, you know. So we would go over there 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.880 and we'd and you know, my dad even told a 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.440 story one time he was he was in a tree 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.280 and he heard these two guys walking by, and this 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.160 is in that episode. He heard these two guys walking by, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.840 and it was the Texas ranchers walking underneath him. My 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.520 dad's in came. I just watch it and walk by 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.080 and they're talking about their wives. But they would never 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.120 show up. And then they sold it to someone and 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.440 this person leveled it. But those woods to me were 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.359 like magical, like that's where I hunted, that's where I camped. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.239 I was always with my dad killing deer. I kill 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.639 rabbits and stuff, I remember, but I never killed a 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.040 deer until I was later in high school, and I 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.560 remember the first time I was skinned a deer myself 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.960 and feel dressed and everything just feeling. I always tell 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.719 people that I felt the warm the warmth of the blood, 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.159 and you know, you have this feeling of like sadness 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.600 a little bit, but also the over riding feeling. I 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.800 remember in my head saying, I'll do this the rest 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.160 of my life. This is what I'm supposed to be doing, 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.520 like of anything, this is what I'm supposed to do, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.840 and I'll do this the rest of my life. And 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.760 I remember when I went off, I was moving away 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.920 to Oregon. I was dropping my dad off to hunt, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.800 and I drove around kind of a section line and 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:15.639 came down to this creek where my dad was going 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.480 to walk in, and I just remember him getting out 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.680 of us, saying bye, and me driving down the dirt 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.400 road in the rearview, watching my dad sort of disappear 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.080 into the woods. And it was just like this place 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.480 that I grew up, you know. But it was kind 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.320 of weird being native and having to because then after 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.000 that we started leasing land and it's like where is 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.560 our land? And how do I hunt? It was always 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.880 like I'm leasing it from you. Know, some white guy 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.399 with money and you know they're nice, but like it 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.040 was just always like what does this all mean? You know? 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.679 But I remember just quick this story. I remember we 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.080 were releasing land outside of Holding Bill. It was kind 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.240 of sectioned out. This land was kind of sectioned out, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.520 and we were me and my dad were walking. This 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.520 pickup truck pulls up. It was this guy who was 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.159 also leasing the land, a white uh, and I remember 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.760 him just really being suspicious of us, and and my 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.600 dad's the type of guy he'll talk, you know, you know, hey, yeah, boy, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:10.560 may we ain't seen nothing down there? 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:10.760 You know. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:12.919 It's like just chatting the guy up, and I'm I 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.600 can feel that he's like things that were not supposed 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.199 to be there, even though I've paid the lease, and 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.040 I can feel it, and I mean the rage and 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.919 me is going like you say it, just please say something, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.880 you know, and I'm just like, but I could tell 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:27.760 the way he was talking to us, like he didn't 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.080 believe that we were releasing it. And he's calling the 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.399 owner and my Dad's like, yeah, I get me call. 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:32.600 You know. 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.440 My Dad's just chatting them up, and I'm just over 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.840 there like, oh, you know, like you know. And then 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.520 when I whenever I bought my land outside of town 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.280 that I hunt on, it was pretty big. I remember 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.800 we were driving it was It was right when I 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.480 was about to buy it hadn't all went through, and 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.000 I took my dad there and we were we were 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:55.679 driving out there, and I think he thought it was 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.080 just some land outside of the city. It wasn't gonna 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.520 be good, you know, And like he said, he's like, 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.879 are you sure is that there's woods there? Like you 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.840 think we can hunt on it? Like I'm like, dude, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:05.919 we can't. So we get out there. We got on 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.680 the side by side he's just blown away. Were driving. 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.240 He said, oh my god, he's just like we're driving 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.280 away and he just starts yelling, like at the top 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.800 of his lungs, got a cuss on this. Can you 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.240 bleep it out? Can I bleep? Can? I I'll blieve it? Okay, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.359 And he's yelling, we don't need your fing land. We 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.040 got our own land now. And he was talking about 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.720 hunt on the land and it was a big deal. 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.439 And I just remember like he was pumped and he 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.120 was yelling, and you know, our whole life we'd never 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:34.879 had our own but we'd always say that, you know, 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.600 we'd be on somebody else's land. We'd be like, man, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:40.600 I should be cool if we had our own. You know. 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.840 That wasn't until you know, honestly, like watching meat Eater 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.960 and the stuff that you do, Like my dad really 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:57.840 got into that because it was more like how we 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.560 hunted as far as like the respect that we gave 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.080 towards the hunt, the animal and all of that. Like 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.040 I felt, I don't know, all the emotions that go 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.119 with it and the importance of it felt. It just 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.200 felt real to me. It just felt like the way 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:12.879 reservation dogs feels to me about native life. You know, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.800 it was real, and you know, I knew the time 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.399 that I first got one that I was going to 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:24.280 do it. You know. Yeah, but you know, like obviously, 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.160 like watching the shows and stuff, it's like, man, y'all 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.320 walk a lot, you know, Like we don't walk that much, 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:33.919 but I'd like to. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:45.760 Yeah, Oklahoma was sort of a reservation. 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.720 I was in a territory at one time, so it 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.320 was all Indian land and eastern Okahama, which would have 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.000 been holding Bill in Tulsa and Talaqua and everything was 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.240 at one point going to be a Native state. It 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.720 was lost by one vote, which is obviously crooked. You know, 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.440 they somebody rigged that, but it was going to be 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.840