1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know we were sneaking. I just thought we're hanging, 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: and so we would go over there and we would hunt. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know right at first, but at some point 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: I realized it wasn't our land. Whose land is he 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: my dad? Like some Texas ranchers, but they're never here early. 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: We're gonna hunt it, you know. So we would go 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: over there and we'd hunt it. 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 2: On this episode, we're traveling to the big city of Tulsa, Oklahoma, 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: to meet its most famous filmmaker, a member of the 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: Muskogee Creek and Seminole Nation, Sterling Harjoe. He's forty four 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: years old, a lifelong resident of Oklahoma, and has risen 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: to the top tier of his craft, taking an unconventional path. 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: After taking a big swing at the Hollywood filmmaking scene, 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: he ditched it and went home to Oklahoma to make 15 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: honest movies about his people, and it ended up being 16 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: the best thing he could have ever done. His work 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: has recently risen to national prominence, receiving multiple awards, even 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: nominated for an Emmy, and it seems there's only more 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: to come. I'd say he's a unique guest for Bear 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: Grease and say you might, how does this fancy filmmaker 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: have anything to do with gritty, rural Americano livin. Well, 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: you're about to find out. Sterling and his people fit 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: right in here. And this story is replete with deer hunting, 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: beauty salons, taekwondo, trespassing, leasing from rich dudes, and Sterling's 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: very serious problem with owls and cracking into the film industry. 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: I really doubt that you're gonna want to miss this one. 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: And hey, deer season's coming up, and if you're looking 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: for the best all around deer call, check out the 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,639 Speaker 2: Acorn Pro that's spelled a ker n spelled the right way. 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: Acorn Pro from Phelps. It's the industry's only inhale, exhale, 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: grunt and bleak call. Me and Jason Phelps and the 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: team work together built this call. It's my favorite call 33 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: and it's just in time for hunting season on the 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: Phelps website. 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know making films would be possible. I didn't 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: know it was a job, but I was always interested 37 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: in I remember when Michael Jackson's Thriller came out of 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the making of Thriller, I was fascinated. I was just like, 39 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: what like there's makeup artists that turned them into a 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: werewolf and all of that. You know, I was really 41 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: fascinated with behind the scenes, but I never thought I 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: could do it. It was like, I'm from Oklahoma. I'm 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: an Indian from Oklahoma. You know how am I going 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: to make movies like you gotta be? You gotta be 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: in Hollywood or something. 46 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: My name is Clay Nukem and this is the Bear 47 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 48 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: land by FHF gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and 51 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the 52 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: places we explore. I've found myself on the fourth floor 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 2: of an office building in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma, and on 54 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: the door it says, screaming Eagle Media, this is Sterling 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: Harjo's office. It's on the top floor with access to 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: the roof, with lots of big windows overlooking the city, 57 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: couches a kitchen, sterling things that used to belong to 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: an oil company in the seventies, and they entertained. 59 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: People up here. 60 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: There's a guitar propped up in the corner, and on 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: the walls are posters of the show reservation dogs with 62 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: varying images of four sharply dressed teenagers. I'd say they're native. 63 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: Sterling's a stout fella. I'd say he's a touch taller 64 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: than me, and he's wearing a cool felt hat with 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: a band of Indian beadwork. His shirt looks like Hawaiian print, 66 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: but when you look closely, it's got tepees and drums, 67 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: Indians riding horses and tomahawks in the pattern. Kind of 68 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: jealous of it. His arms are covered in tattoos, and 69 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: upon closer inspection, one is of a black panther. I 70 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: told you he'd fit in here, and wait till you 71 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: hear about the owls. But what stands out to me 72 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: most about Sterling is what a nice and inviting guy 73 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: he is. He's ordered the best barbecue in Tulsa that'll 74 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: be here in just a little bit. I'm learning that 75 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: when you go to Oklahoma and want to break bread 76 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: with you. But for now, I'm pretty much gonna let 77 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: Sterling tell us his life story. 78 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, my name's Sterling. Harjoe, I am Muskogee Creek 79 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: and Seminole, and also Italian and Scottish and German and 80 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: other things. But well, I was born in Holding the 81 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: Oklahoma and I grew up Holdenvills in Hughes County. It's 82 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: on the Muscogy Creek and Seminole nation line, and so 83 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: a lot of us that are native down there are 84 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: both Seminole and Creek, which is like, you know, it's 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: a pretty good deal because the two tribes are very 86 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: intertwined and to the point where we speak the same language. 87 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: The Moscogy Creeks were a confederacy. I always heard that 88 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: the Muscogee language was a trade language, and so all 89 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: of the all the different bands and groups that made 90 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: up the Muscogee Creek Nation, they all had like a 91 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: shared trade language. The customs in the way of life 92 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: is very similar, and so that's where I grew up. 93 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: I now live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm the filmmaker. I 94 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: created the show Reservation Dogs as an independent filmmaker before that, 95 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: sort of just grinding making no budget movies with an 96 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: insatiable sort of need to tell the truth and stories 97 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: about who we are as Native people and what I 98 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: saw growing up which led me to making the show 99 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: Reservation Dogs, and it's been a very successful show and 100 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: we were just nominated for our first Emmy's. Yeah, it's 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: been a crazy couple of years. My life sort of 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: turned upside down. Very happy that I still live here 103 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: in Tulsa and I'm able to sort of be close 104 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: to my family and friends and that's who I am. Yeah, 105 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: I grew up in Holdenville. Holdenville was you know, it 106 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: was a cool place. I have nothing but like the 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: best memories from growing up in Holdenville. I mean rural Oklahoma, 108 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was just sort of an idyllic place 109 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: to grow up. I mean it was so diverse. I 110 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: had white friends, black friends, native friends. We all got along. 111 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: Everybody knew each other's grandma. It was just like I 112 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: would never pick another place to grow up. You sort 113 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: of get those values of being from a rural area. 114 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: I think, you know, if the zombie apocalypse happened today, 115 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't hang out Tulsa. I would go to my hometown, 116 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, where somebody could like grow their food and 117 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: ring a chicken's neck, you know, like that's where I'd go. 118 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: I had it the best of both worlds where I 119 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: had just giant Native family and then I had my 120 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: white grandma, who was a smaller family, but like both 121 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: sides were the best storytellers ever, you know, and we 122 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: come from like people that were poor. And from a 123 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: young age though, I always wanted to be an artist, 124 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: and my dad and my uncle taught me how to draw. 125 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: And I remember I won a competition for drawing at 126 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: the first National Bank and I won ten dollars and 127 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: I thought I was rich. And it was about pollution. 128 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: And I drew this like lake with all these fish 129 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: and animals, you know, dying, and I would I got 130 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: a picture of the you know, my picture is like 131 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: cover of the whole Middle newspaper. And from the very 132 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: beginning of my memories, that's what I knew I wanted 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: to do. What I didn't know is I was also 134 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: really getting into movies. The whole time. I just didn't 135 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: know it was possible to make movies. And so one 136 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: thing that's interesting. My grandma on my mom's side, who's 137 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: my Native grandma, and then my grandpa on mother's side, 138 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: was Native and both full blood Native, which made my 139 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: parents half which two haves together make me which I'm 140 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: half and so my native grandma, Johnny May was her name, 141 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: Johnny May Kalinach. There was a thing called the Relocation Act, 142 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: and back in the day, and it was sort of 143 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: this way of hey, Indians, come work in the city. 144 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: You'll get a good job, you know, and be able 145 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: to pay your family. I kind of think it was 146 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: more to hey, Indians, get away from your community, assimilate 147 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,599 Speaker 1: into America, because there was such a threat to America 148 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: the community community aspect of our lives, you know there 149 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: and there was like so many government policies that were 150 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: in direct assault of that community. The DAWs Act, you know, 151 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: we'll give you one hundred and eighty acres of individual land. 152 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: You can do whatever you want with it. Well, in 153 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: a couple of years somebody's going to come and try 154 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: to swindle you out of it as well, if you 155 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: look at like Killers of the Flower Moon and all 156 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: of that stuff's connected. But really it was to break 157 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: up the fact that these all of the tribes had 158 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: communal living. There was no homelessness, there was no there 159 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: was no body gone hungry, you know, we worked together 160 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: to feed each other. Something about that offended I think 161 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: the US government. There was a lot of policy towards 162 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: Native Americans to disrupt that. My grandma and then went 163 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: to Chicago to work in factories. Luckily they all came 164 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: back home, but not before my grandma fell in love 165 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: with an Italian man named Rock clinicch Nor. George was 166 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: his name, but he went by Rock and they fell 167 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: in love. Had my uncle em my mom in Chicago, 168 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: and then they all aunts and uncles, everybody moved back 169 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: home to rural Oklahoma. There's a giant Native community in 170 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: Chicago still, but down in rural Oklahoma now there is 171 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: a gang and ens with the last name Kalinich, so 172 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: you know. And then my dad's Harjo. Harjo is a 173 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: from a Moscoi word. The original word is hajo, which 174 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: means crazy in battle, crazy for short. So that's what 175 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: my last name means. And so I grew up in 176 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: this pretty fascinating place. My mom was a hairdresser. She 177 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: permed ever's eighties. She permed every cheerleader's hair. She gave 178 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: every football player a haircut before the Friday night game. 179 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 1: And she ended up having to quit because she was 180 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: allergic to perm chemicals and it messed her hands up. 181 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: But I grew up kind of in this salon, this 182 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: barber shop, and I just kind of grew up with 183 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: the community coming through this place. My dad was a 184 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: construction worker but also martial arts in my town, and 185 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: so he became a Taekwondo instructor when I was four 186 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: years old. I remember the first lessons were taught in 187 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: a basement of church, and I fought competitively with my dad, 188 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: who just retired the school hard dressed martial arts last year. 189 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: And my dad's kind of like he if my dad 190 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: could choose his way of life, he'd be in the 191 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: middle of the woods without a road as long as 192 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: he had cable, you know, like come outside and hunt 193 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: whatever and then come back and watch football or whatever. 194 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: And and my dad was kind of a hippie, you know, 195 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Natives were like the best hippie, like a Southern hippie, though, 196 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: like like we're very I think Southern hippies are very 197 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: different California hippies, you know, like Southern hippies will still 198 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: like eat a squirrel, you know, but like wore bell bottoms, 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: you know. And you know, my dad had long hair 200 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: because he was a hippie and he was Native, and 201 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: he would go to school and you couldn't have long hair, 202 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: so my dad would wear a wig. That it would 203 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: be our late sixties in holding the and my dad 204 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: wear a wig to school. And one of the principles 205 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: was like on the hunt for my dad for growing 206 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: his hair out too long. And one day he yanked 207 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: the yanked the wig off my dad, and my dad's 208 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: hair comes out, and my dad quit school. You know, 209 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: he was a sophomore and he quit school, and he 210 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: was kind of a football star and he quit, and 211 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: he's always I think he always regretted that. You know, 212 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: my mom is a very outgoing person who is like 213 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: she taught me what it's what it means to be 214 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: a part of a community. She is a person that 215 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: no matter what, if somebody died, even if they weren't 216 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: our family, she was taking food to them. My mom, 217 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: I for me, really represents that communal aspect of Native 218 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: life where she's always like taking me with her to 219 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: events and gatherings and feasts and wild onion dinners is 220 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: a big thing that we have in the spring. She 221 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: was always taking to me these things and every time 222 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: we walked in, she'd say, go shake everybody's hand, and 223 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: I have to go shake everyone's hand in that room, 224 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: and she'd be like, that's because and that's because, and 225 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: that's because, that's because, that's because that's causin that's just 226 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: a cous you know. It's like how many cousins do 227 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: I have? And how am I going to get married? 228 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: You know, And so I'd have to go through it 229 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: to shake everybody's hand, and I hated it then, but 230 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: now it's like it's I'm so happy because everybody knows me. 231 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: And it translated into me getting a lot of respect 232 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: and trust with making movies and stuff. And that's a 233 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: big reason why I also didn't leave, is because when 234 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: I make these films, I'm telling stories about my people, 235 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: and I'm going to incorporate them into what I'm telling 236 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: because I want it to be real. And I don't 237 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: think enough people in Hollywood and modern sort of entertainment 238 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: to care about that enough, because it's about money, it's 239 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: not about trying to tell the truth. So, like, I 240 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: grew up with pretty fascinating people and community driven people, 241 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: but they were very supportive. My parents are still together, 242 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: I've got two brothers, two sisters, and yeah, it was 243 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: just it was a cool existence. I mean, I felt 244 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: very much like stand by Me. You know, like growing 245 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: up it was like we walked all over town looking 246 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: for a dead body. You know, It's like anything interesting 247 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: that could happen, you know. I think growing up in Oklahoma, 248 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean like I grew up with 249 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: my dad was always hunting. I mean, here's the thing. 250 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: The sort of more conscious conservation came to me later. 251 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: When we were young. It was like, it's our land, well, 252 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: wherever we want, and what are you talking about? You know, 253 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: like we got to report in with you, like who 254 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: are you? You know, like I think that when I 255 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: was young, it was like what fish and holl are 256 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: we going to sneak into? And me and my cousin 257 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: were fourteen, driving my dad's car and like dirt roads 258 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: and like we'd go fishing and somebody's land like whatever. 259 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: And then you know, there's an episode, episode six or 260 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: the first season where it's just the father and daughter hunting. 261 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: That's all it is. And that's kind of the north 262 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: star of my first season was I want to be 263 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: able to get the audience to where I can just 264 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: film a father and daughter in the woods. 265 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: Here's a short clip from Reservation Dogs. A father and 266 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: his teenage daughter are dressed in camo and hunter's orange. 267 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: Their faces are painted and both have a rifle in 268 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: their hand. In this scene, the daughter realizes that they 269 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: don't own the land that they're hunting on. 270 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: Where'd you get the picture of a trail camp? I 271 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: don't own a trail camp? What what do you mean? 272 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: Whose is it? Then it's probably the owners? Eh, owners, Yep, 273 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: don't we own this line? No, we're Indian. We don't 274 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: own a land. 275 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: The father then explains to the girl that this land 276 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: used to be theirs, but her great grandfather had sold it. 277 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: She asked if they'll ever get it back, and the 278 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: dad basically says Texas ranchers don't give anything back. She 279 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: then says that she saw some images of people on 280 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: the trail camera, and the father tells her that they 281 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: were probably poachers, and then he pauses for a minute 282 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: and he goes, well, different poachers than us. And it's 283 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: a brilliant scene and one that Sterling lived. I appreciate 284 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: his honesty. 285 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: And it's very much based on me and my dad 286 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: because we would sneak over I thought it was our land. 287 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: We'd sneak over across the road this giant acreage of 288 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: land across our dirt road where we lived on a 289 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: hill outside of Holtonville. I didn't know what we were sneaking. 290 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: I just thought we're hanging. And so we would go 291 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: over there and we would hunt. And I didn't know 292 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: right at first, but at some point I realized it 293 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: wasn't our land. Whose land is? He my dad like 294 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: some Texas ranchers. But we're never hearing. Really we're gonna 295 00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: hunt it, you know. So we would go over there 296 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: and we'd and you know, my dad even told a 297 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: story one time he was he was in a tree 298 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: and he heard these two guys walking by, and this 299 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: is in that episode. He heard these two guys walking by, 300 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: and it was the Texas ranchers walking underneath him. My 301 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: dad's in came. I just watch it and walk by 302 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: and they're talking about their wives. But they would never 303 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: show up. And then they sold it to someone and 304 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: this person leveled it. But those woods to me were 305 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: like magical, like that's where I hunted, that's where I camped. 306 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: I was always with my dad killing deer. I kill 307 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: rabbits and stuff, I remember, but I never killed a 308 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: deer until I was later in high school, and I 309 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: remember the first time I was skinned a deer myself 310 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: and feel dressed and everything just feeling. I always tell 311 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 1: people that I felt the warm the warmth of the blood, 312 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: and you know, you have this feeling of like sadness 313 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: a little bit, but also the over riding feeling. I 314 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: remember in my head saying, I'll do this the rest 315 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: of my life. This is what I'm supposed to be doing, 316 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: like of anything, this is what I'm supposed to do, 317 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: and I'll do this the rest of my life. And 318 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: I remember when I went off, I was moving away 319 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: to Oregon. I was dropping my dad off to hunt, 320 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: and I drove around kind of a section line and 321 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: came down to this creek where my dad was going 322 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: to walk in, and I just remember him getting out 323 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: of us, saying bye, and me driving down the dirt 324 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: road in the rearview, watching my dad sort of disappear 325 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: into the woods. And it was just like this place 326 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: that I grew up, you know. But it was kind 327 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: of weird being native and having to because then after 328 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: that we started leasing land and it's like where is 329 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: our land? And how do I hunt? It was always 330 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: like I'm leasing it from you. Know, some white guy 331 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: with money and you know they're nice, but like it 332 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: was just always like what does this all mean? You know? 333 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: But I remember just quick this story. I remember we 334 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: were releasing land outside of Holding Bill. It was kind 335 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: of sectioned out. This land was kind of sectioned out, 336 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: and we were me and my dad were walking. This 337 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: pickup truck pulls up. It was this guy who was 338 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: also leasing the land, a white uh, and I remember 339 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: him just really being suspicious of us, and and my 340 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: dad's the type of guy he'll talk, you know, you know, hey, yeah, boy, 341 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: may we ain't seen nothing down there? 342 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: You know. 343 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: It's like just chatting the guy up, and I'm I 344 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: can feel that he's like things that were not supposed 345 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: to be there, even though I've paid the lease, and 346 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: I can feel it, and I mean the rage and 347 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: me is going like you say it, just please say something, 348 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm just like, but I could tell 349 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: the way he was talking to us, like he didn't 350 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: believe that we were releasing it. And he's calling the 351 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: owner and my Dad's like, yeah, I get me call. 352 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 3: You know. 353 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: My Dad's just chatting them up, and I'm just over 354 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: there like, oh, you know, like you know. And then 355 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: when I whenever I bought my land outside of town 356 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: that I hunt on, it was pretty big. I remember 357 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: we were driving it was It was right when I 358 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: was about to buy it hadn't all went through, and 359 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: I took my dad there and we were we were 360 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: driving out there, and I think he thought it was 361 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: just some land outside of the city. It wasn't gonna 362 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: be good, you know, And like he said, he's like, 363 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: are you sure is that there's woods there? Like you 364 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: think we can hunt on it? Like I'm like, dude, 365 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: we can't. So we get out there. We got on 366 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: the side by side he's just blown away. Were driving. 367 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: He said, oh my god, he's just like we're driving 368 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: away and he just starts yelling, like at the top 369 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: of his lungs, got a cuss on this. Can you 370 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: bleep it out? Can I bleep? Can? I I'll blieve it? Okay, 371 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: And he's yelling, we don't need your fing land. We 372 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: got our own land now. And he was talking about 373 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: hunt on the land and it was a big deal. 374 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: And I just remember like he was pumped and he 375 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: was yelling, and you know, our whole life we'd never 376 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: had our own but we'd always say that, you know, 377 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: we'd be on somebody else's land. We'd be like, man, 378 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: I should be cool if we had our own. You know. 379 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: That wasn't until you know, honestly, like watching meat Eater 380 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: and the stuff that you do, Like my dad really 381 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: got into that because it was more like how we 382 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: hunted as far as like the respect that we gave 383 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: towards the hunt, the animal and all of that. Like 384 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: I felt, I don't know, all the emotions that go 385 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: with it and the importance of it felt. It just 386 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: felt real to me. It just felt like the way 387 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: reservation dogs feels to me about native life. You know, 388 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: it was real, and you know, I knew the time 389 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: that I first got one that I was going to 390 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: do it. You know. Yeah, but you know, like obviously, 391 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: like watching the shows and stuff, it's like, man, y'all 392 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: walk a lot, you know, Like we don't walk that much, 393 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: but I'd like to. 394 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Oklahoma was sort of a reservation. 395 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: I was in a territory at one time, so it 396 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: was all Indian land and eastern Okahama, which would have 397 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: been holding Bill in Tulsa and Talaqua and everything was 398 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: at one point going to be a Native state. It 399 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: was lost by one vote, which is obviously crooked. You know, 400 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: they somebody rigged that, but it was going to be 401 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: called the state of Sequoia. And very interesting thing that 402 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: happened a few years back is Oklahoma versus McGirt, which 403 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: basically my tribe, the Muscoge Creek, in a court case, 404 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: in a criminal court case, they found that it's still 405 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: reservation land and so it reinstated the reservation. So you're 406 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: on the Muscogee Creek Reservation right now, literally as we speak, 407 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: your feet are. And then that opened the door for 408 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: a lot of other eastern Oklahoma tribes. So if you 409 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: go that way about two miles, you'll be on Cherokee 410 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: Nation Reservation land and then Seminole Nation Land is about 411 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: an hour and a half south. 412 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: Did you grow up on the Seminole Reservation or no? 413 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: I mean technically yeah, but it's not a reservation like that. 414 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: I think that you would be thinking. 415 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: Which is like a closed just be like a town. 416 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm in a town and I'm town in the south, 417 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of brown people here, you know 418 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: what I mean? Like yeah, and I think that we 419 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: technically at reservation. But because Oklahoma was I mean, it's 420 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: just a crazy history of Oklahoma's like the most unique of 421 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: all the states. It used to be in in territory 422 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: and then you know, you look at all of the 423 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, you watch True Grit, We're going into the territory. 424 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, Hanging Judge Parker, that was all into terrors. Oklahoma. 425 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: It was placed where criminals went because they get away 426 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: with stuff, and there was it was lawless because it 427 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: was it wasn't the nation of the United States. It 428 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: was a no man's land. I didn't know making films 429 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: would be possible. I didn't know it was a job, 430 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: but I was always interested in I remember when Michael 431 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: Jackson's Thriller came out and the making of Thriller, I 432 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: was fascinated. I was just like, what, like there's makeup 433 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: artists that turned them into a werewolf and all of that. 434 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: You know. I was really fascinated with behind the scenes. 435 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: And I never thought I could do it. It was like, 436 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm from Oklahoma. I'm an Indian from Oklahoma. You know, 437 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: how am I going to make movies? Like you gotta 438 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: be you got to be in Hollywood or something. And 439 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: I'd been interested in movies. I started watching independent films, 440 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's cool, like maybe I 441 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: could tell the story back home. And I remember I 442 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: went to Oregon and I got a letter from my grandma. 443 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: They didn't know how long I was gonna be gone. 444 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: They thought I was moved away forever. I'd written a 445 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: story and it was about her and a man that 446 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: she married that burned himself alive and crazy story. But 447 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: I gave it to her. I wrote this story about it, 448 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: and she read it and kind of realized I was 449 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: a writer. And then when I moved to Oregon, she 450 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: wrote me a letter and said, someday you ought to 451 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: come back home and tell some stories about these Indian 452 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: churches around here. And that stuck with me and I 453 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: started writing a script because of it, and I wrote 454 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: my first script and it's awful, but it was just 455 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: like it kind of gave me the confidence to do this. 456 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: I started asking friends. I was like, I want to 457 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: make movies. And my friend lived next door to the 458 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: head of the film and video studies at the University 459 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: of Oklahoma. I got a meeting with him, gave him 460 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: a script, told him I wanted to make movies, and 461 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: he gave it back to me. And he said it's 462 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: not for minute ride. I won't read it, and he's like, 463 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: you should take this class. So I took this class. 464 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 1: It was intro to Film and Video Studies by this 465 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: Hungarian teacher filmmaker named Misha Nadelkovich, and yeah, I was sold. 466 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: After that. It was just like he had this infectious 467 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 1: way of talking about movies where it was like, all 468 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it wasn't just pointing a camera randomly 469 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: at something, it was the camera could tell a story. 470 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: You use shots to tell a story. And once I 471 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: realized that, I was sort of hooked and I got 472 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: into all of these he started showing me movies by 473 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: John Cassavetti's or you know, the French New Way of 474 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: Movies or whatever. I was just like blown away that 475 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: all of these voices were out there, and I was like, 476 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: no one's ever told stories about where I'm from and 477 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: the people that I come from. No one has. And 478 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: I saw that as a plus not a minus, that 479 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: I have a leg up and that I can tell 480 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: a story that no one's told before, which is rare. 481 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: That's I had my heart set on it. After that, 482 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: I just began writing, and I remember telling my friends. 483 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: You know, I'm wanna make a movie in two years, 484 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: and they all right, and I made it. At four 485 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: or four years, I made a movie, you know, and like, 486 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: so what happened is I started writing them. This guy 487 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: named Bird running Water who's a Cheyenne, Rapaho and Mescalero 488 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: Apache guy that grew up in Oklahoma, New Mexico and 489 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: he graduated from the University of Oklahoma. He was working 490 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: for the Sundance Institute. And the Sundance Institute is kind 491 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: of they're connected to the festival. But Robert Redford started 492 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: it as a way to like basically support independent film 493 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: because you can't just look for independent filmmakers in Hollywood. 494 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: You have to have scouts, and so they have basically 495 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: people that scout in Europe, in South America, in Indian country, 496 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: you know. And this Skybird running Water was basically scouting 497 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: Native America storytellers. He came and spoke about Sundance. I 498 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: went and heard the talk, and afterwards I said, I 499 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: really want to make movies, and he was like, well, 500 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: let's figure it out. I wrote a script, tried to 501 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: get into the Sundance Writer's Lab, got rejected. I mean, 502 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: but it was good enough. That two years later, he 503 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: was asking me if I had anything new. I sent 504 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: in a script called Four Sheets to the Wind. I 505 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: got accepted, and I went to the writer's lab and 506 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: I left school, went to the writer's lab and director's lab, 507 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: and they started making my films, you know, and taught 508 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: myself how to edit, got student loans, bought a camera computer. 509 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: My friend had a band. I would make music videos 510 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: for his band, and I learned how to edit that 511 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: way and shoot. And then the Sundance Lab. I had 512 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing, but I just had 513 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: to pretend and go along with it. You know, I'm 514 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: meeting some fascinating people. Robert Redford, Ed Harris, Philip Seymour Hoffman. 515 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: You know, I'm hanging out with him, all these people 516 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: that I admired, and you know, we're heroes of mine, 517 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: all of a sudden giving me advice. After that, I 518 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: went to LA to do some meetings. So I was like, 519 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: you know, cause Tarantino and Paul Thomas Anderson, all these 520 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: filmmakers came out of the labs. So I thought, oh man, 521 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm next, Like I'm next on line. What I didn't 522 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: know is independent film and basically crashed at that point. 523 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: This is post reservoir dogs, pulp fiction all that. It 524 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: was like there was no money for independent film and 525 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. And I go to LA and 526 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I think I'm in the toast of 527 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: the town where I'm just like, oh, man, doors are 528 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: going to be open. I'm gonna be making movies now. 529 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: And I remember going in and just like getting the 530 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: worst feedback, whereas your script's great. If there was any 531 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: way that we could get someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman 532 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: on the poster, you know, it was like an all 533 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: Indian movie, you know, and like I don't know how 534 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: to do that, you know. And then or like people 535 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: would say, like Indian movies don't sell, or they'd say 536 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: like this is Indian enough, or it's two Indian. And 537 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: so I was like, I'm gonna go back home and 538 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: make movies in Oklahoma. I came home. I got my 539 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: first film funded here in Tulsa, and I did two movies, 540 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: a short film called good Night Irene and then a 541 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: movie called four. She's the one that I went to 542 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: the labs for and I made them so low budget. 543 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: I didn't you know, one got paid. I didn't get paid, 544 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: but they did well enough that they went into the 545 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: Sindance Film Vestval in other places around the world, won 546 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: some awards, got critical acclaim and I was like, Okay, 547 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: now's the time I'm gonna be making movies now, you know, 548 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: and instilled nothing two thousand and five around there, and 549 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: then you know, nothing would happen a couple of years 550 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: ago by I got a new idea. I want to 551 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: make a new movie. I wrote a movie called Barking 552 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: Water I think that was two thousand and nine and 553 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: got that funded. I mean, these are like one hundred 554 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: thousand dollar movies, you know, no one's getting paid, and 555 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: a small crew, and you know, I get some actors together, 556 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: and then the actors are so appreciative because, like you know, 557 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: Richard Ray Whitman and Casey cam Hornet were both the 558 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: elites and Barking Water, you know, Richard's like, you know, 559 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 1: he's been a lot of movies, but he's always a 560 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: silhouette with a gun on a horse, you know. And Casey, 561 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, she's an older woman now, but whenever we 562 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: made Barking Water, she was like, you know, I've been 563 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: a dead Indian and almost all the tribes, but my 564 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: own she's I'm really good looking dead outside of a tepee, 565 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: you know. And so they had these two roles where 566 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: they were able to express emotion and be truthful and 567 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: be human. And that premiered at sun Dance and played 568 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: at the Venice Film Festival in Italy and all these things, 569 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: and it was a you know, very low budget. Again, 570 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: I didn't make money. But at one point I worked 571 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: for an organization here called This Land Press and it 572 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: was a long form magazine and I did documentaries for him, 573 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: short documentaries, So I just kind of constantly was shooting. 574 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 1: What I really loved about that is to make money. 575 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: To do with doing these short documentaries is I learned 576 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: how to be a better filmmaker because doing the documentaries, 577 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: you got to walk in a room it's like I'm 578 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: shooting this scene. I got to know where the camera 579 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: goes like that, you know, I got to be able 580 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: to pull the performance out of you and I don't 581 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: know you, you know, it's like so it all helped 582 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: in training me kind of become the filmmaker that I am. 583 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: And I just kept doing it. Man, And then like 584 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: I did This Land, I did all these documentaries for 585 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: this Land. They're all online, they're short documentaries. I'm very 586 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: proud of all that work that I did. It was 587 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: taking telling stories and changing a community that was right 588 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: here where I'm at locally. This Land also produced the 589 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: documentary This Maybe the Last Time, which is about songs 590 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: and it's about my family and things like that. You know, 591 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: there's a point where I was going to quit. There 592 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: was a point where I wanted to start a nonprofit 593 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: that was gonna kind of teach Native youth how to 594 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: hunt wild game again, and also a food exchange where 595 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: we get elders like a processing plant and then you 596 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: give the meat to elders and also kind of reintroduce 597 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: wild game into their diet and teach them how to 598 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: cook it again. It was this idea that I had 599 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: that I was like, filmmaking is not paying the bills. 600 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: I got to do something else, and this would be 601 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: the second thing I'd wanted to do so and I 602 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: was really inspired. I was doing research for a documentary 603 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: and my friends up in the Northeast. There's a lot 604 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: of organizations like that with the Northeastern tribes where you know, 605 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: kind of a salmon exchange where they would reintegrate salmon 606 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: fishing back into their communities. You know, through colonization and whatever, 607 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: you get stripped away from traditional practice and modernization and whatever. 608 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: You know, your natural way of providing for your family 609 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: gets disrupted obviously, and so it's like, you know, they 610 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: were doing things reintroducing salmon fishing and cooking back into 611 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: the community. So I was like very inspired by that. 612 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna do that back home. And 613 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: then things changed, and I'd always gambled that they would change. 614 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: I just like, I'm gonna make movies in Oklahoma, and 615 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: I think at some point they'll want to make native 616 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: stuff at some point. And then what changed was streaming, 617 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, you didn't have to have 618 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise on your poster to fund your stuff. Like 619 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: TV became this thing where you don't have to have 620 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: name actors. No one knows who they are, and it's okay, 621 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like benefits the show a little bit. 622 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I started getting work and TV. 623 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: And I never thought I'd make TV, but like, I 624 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: started getting work in TV, and I was like, oh man. 625 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: And then like I would go to a meeting and 626 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: they'd be like Wow, you've done all of these films, 627 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: like you're so experienced. Where have you been? I'd been 628 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: like I've been here, man, like where have you been? 629 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: And so I don't know, like I saw it changing, 630 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: felt it changing. And then my friend who is Mallory 631 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: from the Indigenous people of New Zealand, Tackle y t 632 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: t who basically become you know, we're good friends. We 633 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: met in festivals with our films. We would show films 634 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: together at indigenous festivals throughout the because there's also the 635 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: indigenous circuit where we kind of hang out. And then 636 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: we'd find ourselves at a big festival and you automatically 637 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: find the indigenous crowd and you're like, I'm hanging out 638 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: with y'all, you know. And so me and Tackle became 639 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: really good friends. And then he became kind of a 640 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: superstar in front of me, like you know what we 641 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: do in the Shadows and thor Ragnarock, and you know, 642 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: people recognizing me. You can't walk down the street all 643 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: of a sudden with them. You know. I saw a 644 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: lot of people want things from him with that. Fame 645 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: comes to that, and so I never wanted him to 646 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: feel that way with me. So I was very much, 647 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: always like we're just friends. I'll talk to you about life, 648 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: you know. And one day he said, you know, I 649 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: have an overall deal at FX if you have any ideas, 650 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: like I need to pitch them shows. So if you 651 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: have any ideas, let me know. And he and I 652 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: had been reading each other's work for a long time, 653 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: so in very similar humor and all of that, and 654 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: so I was like, what if we took your script? 655 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: I talked about a specific script his and a script 656 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: that I had. I was like, what if we took 657 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: those two and combined him and made a show. And 658 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: we came up with the idea for reservation dogs that night, 659 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: and then basically he opened the door for me to 660 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: affects got a show, and he was like, I see it, buddy, 661 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: you go hope you do, hope you make it. You 662 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: hope you make it good, and you know, and obviously 663 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: I owed a lot to him and felt like I 664 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to disappoint my friend who had put his 665 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, walked me in and kind of helped open 666 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: a door for me. And so so I went and 667 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: made the show and it did well. And yeah, I 668 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: mean it was a long story of how I became 669 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: a filmmaker. I don't tell stories in a way that 670 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: excludes people. I grew up from a bunch of different 671 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: people that ended up in this continent, a bunch of 672 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: different ways, from many different cultures. I happened to be 673 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: a part of a very vibrant culture that sort of 674 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: took over the essence of my life because I was 675 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: born into it, and being native, it's big and I 676 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: would not choose to be anything else. But I grew 677 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: up in rural Oklahoma where there were a lot of 678 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: people from a lot of different backgrounds, and my family 679 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: from a lot of different backgrounds, and I found a 680 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: way to talk to everybody. And I really enjoy people 681 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: that don't come from where I come from, or know 682 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: everything about me, or have the same feelings and politics 683 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: and whatever is me. I think that I'm a more healthy, 684 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: well rounded person when I have a bunch of people 685 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: from different places coming in at once. And for me, 686 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: telling stories is my way of kind of pulling that 687 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: together and creating community that I grew up in. And 688 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: I feel like I miss the community that I grew 689 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: up in the town that I grew up in, and 690 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: I'm constantly creating that and you can't be divisive and 691 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: create that. For me, it was not a divisive place. 692 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: It was a very welcoming place. So when I tell stories, 693 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: I want to invite people in, and that means also 694 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: educating and teaching about where I'm from and who I am. 695 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: There's some things that I wouldn't teach about, you know, 696 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: like some of our ceremonial stuff I wouldn't talk about 697 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: and show because it's not meant to be shown. But 698 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: people trust me, and Native people trust me here, and 699 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: I like the cultural exchange of teaching other people and 700 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: telling stories from where I'm If I was telling stories 701 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: just for the people that I grew up with, that'd 702 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: be pretty boring to me. Like I'm trying to tell 703 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: stories about who we are to people that might have 704 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: a different idea of who we are and trying to 705 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: tell the truth about who we are a little bit more. 706 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: And with that, for me, I find the best way 707 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: is to be open and to be inviting and have 708 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: some sort of cultural exchange with people, and through that 709 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: I think that, uh, I think the world would be 710 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: better if we all did operated more like that, you know. 711 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: And that's why I also was a fan of this podcast. 712 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: And that's why I recognize you telling the story of Tokumsea, 713 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: and I don't have to agree with everything you say 714 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: or whatever, like the fact that you put it on 715 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: a podcast that caters towards usually I'm sure most of 716 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: your fans are white and outdoors people, and I think 717 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of division between the outdoor world 718 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: and Native people, and I think that there's a lot 719 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: more similarities than we think, and so I think putting 720 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: those stories, these stories on your podcast is exactly what 721 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: I do by showing an how with blurred out eyes, 722 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: showing and telling you about my culture and trying to 723 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: share that just so there's more understanding between all of this. 724 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: I think. 725 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: So in Reservation Dogs, there's a viral scene where Stirling 726 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 2: blurred out the eyes of an owl that was in 727 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 2: a tree. There's really no explanation given in the show 728 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,439 Speaker 2: of why he did this, but it's very much an 729 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 2: inside cultural joke. In all the Native people knew exactly 730 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 2: what it meant. Owls are bad news to almost all 731 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 2: North American Indian tribes, and Stirling was making light of it. 732 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: Again. 733 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 2: It was brilliant. I asked him to expound on his 734 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 2: doctrine on owls, which, as you all know, is a 735 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: beast that's close to my heart. I really hope this 736 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we can't be friends. 737 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: You grew up with a especially in my tribes, we 738 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: grew up with a healthy fear of owls. I mean really. 739 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: I was my buddy Jacob Tovar, who's a musician here 740 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: in town. He was at my house the other day. 741 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: We were outside, sitting on the deck, and all of 742 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: a sudden, I heard an owl, and you know, one's fine, 743 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: but then I heard two. They were talking to each 744 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: other in my backyard verse three or four, and I'm 745 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: freaking out. At this point, I'm like, and Jacob's cracking up. 746 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 1: Jacob's cracking out. He's like, are you like, no, it's 747 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: not an owl. For you know, it was like, dude, 748 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: I'm going in, Like I'm going inside, and like he 749 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: thought it was the funniest thing, just because he knows 750 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: he's grew over enough indiens that he knows how we feel. 751 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: But he's also like, it's just an owl. And I'm 752 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: just like, I'm going in, you know. And but we 753 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: grew up like, especially in my tribe, there's a couple 754 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: of things. It was a messenger of death and it 755 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: was telling you somebody's going to die. Also, we have 756 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: a sort of our biggest boogeyman. It's a stickinny and 757 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: that is a shape shifter, a person that could turn 758 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 1: themselves into an owl and get up to no good. 759 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: You know, there's sounds. So so that is like our 760 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: one of our biggest sort of that is the boogeyman. 761 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: For us, it's like watch out for stiguineas you know, 762 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: and so nothing good is happening when you hear it owl. 763 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: It's either you know someone's gonna die or someone has 764 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: shape shifted into one and they're coming for you. 765 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 2: You know. 766 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,280 Speaker 1: Any way, you're screwed. I guess it didn't. 767 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 2: It didn't make it into the Native American tribes that 768 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 2: the barred owl is one of the greatest turkey shop 769 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 2: gobbles of all time. 770 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: That's true, it is. But yeah, exactly see that even 771 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: freaks me out. But you know, it's like there's a 772 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: reverence and a respect for the animal, you know, where 773 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, a lot of people will say 774 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: that it's a messenger of change, not just death. But 775 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: my dad's only memory of my grandpa died when he 776 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: was five. It's him shooting an owl out of a tree. 777 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: You know. I've been hiking with a friend and an 778 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: owl starts calling at us, and it feels like it's 779 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: kind of following us. We're both like, God, he's a 780 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: lask native, you know, and I'm but same they. I mean, 781 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: they're up there, we're down here. They had the same views. 782 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: And so we're hiking out of there, going We're gonna 783 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: get out of here and all this could be coincidence, 784 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: but you know, it's like how you grow up. You 785 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: choose to believe what you know. We're we're a quarter 786 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 1: mile down the road. Once we got to the car 787 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: and he got a phone call, and it's like your 788 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: cousin that grew up like his brothers killed and so 789 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: it's like you see, you see stuff enough. Or maybe 790 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: if we had the same feeling about a robin, it 791 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: also would connect in ways that I'm saying the owl does. 792 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: But I'm saying the owl connects in ways that in 793 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: my life that that has happened, you know. So so 794 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: if I hear four talking to each other in my backyard, 795 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go inside. Yeah, so we put an owl 796 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: there was an owl outside of a Uncle Brownie's house 797 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: hanging there, and we as a joke as a for 798 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: the natives that blurred the eyes out, you know, which 799 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: I just thought was hilarious and like a good visual joke, 800 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, but also like what I didn't realize is 801 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: how many non natives would be really curious about what 802 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: that meant. It's one of the biggest questions that I get. 803 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: It's like, what was it with the blurred out eyes 804 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: on the owl? You know? And then like I've seen 805 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: it on Facebook and different chat things where someone will 806 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: ask and the native people on there will be very 807 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: patient sort of describe why, you know. Like it's kind 808 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: of a beautiful exchange of like culture, and it's kind 809 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 1: of the best thing about the show is like it's 810 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: a welcoming show and people are curious about things, you know. 811 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like it's talking down to anyone or 812 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: I had originally written in there that it was a 813 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: taxidermy now, but my friend that directed it is Navajo. 814 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: Well Navajos could even be more superstitious, you know, and 815 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: he's like, there's no tax derval, Like we're gonna get 816 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna get a porcelain now, and so you know, 817 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: it's not a taxi every now, it's just like a 818 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: it's a porcelain or something. You know, it's a plastic. 819 00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, what's the future going to be like 820 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 2: for you? 821 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: There's some stuff that I want to meg. I'm working 822 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: on this Jim Thorpe project. I have this new show 823 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: with Ethan Hawk that I'm doing. It takes place in Tulsa. 824 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 1: I'm trying to build more of an industry here. That's 825 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: part of what I want to do. I want to 826 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: bring education in for film as well. I have a 827 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: thing called the Tulsa Artist Tulsa Film Collective that we 828 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: show films and bring artists in the filmmakers. If I'm 829 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: doing an animated movie that's actually down in Florida Seminole, 830 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: I just you know, kind of want to I'm raising 831 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 1: my kids here, you know, and it's like I want 832 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: to make the place better and I want to make 833 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: Native people more visible in the city. I mean, when 834 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: I first came to Tulsa, I have a film called 835 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: Miko and it's about a homeless community and Natives and 836 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: Tulsa because when I first got here, that's the only 837 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: place I remember, like I was missing home. The only 838 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,280 Speaker 1: place I could find Native people faces was in the streets, 839 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: and I made this movie about that fictional but it's 840 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: changed a lot since then. I think that Tuls has 841 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: taken more pride in that side of things, and I 842 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: hope to kind of be a part of more of that. 843 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 2: You know, I hope you've enjoyed hearing from Sterling as 844 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 2: much as I did. He has an unassuming and honest 845 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 2: way of communicating that's unique and draws you into the circle. 846 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 2: I think what he's doing for his community and for 847 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 2: people outside of his community is important. This is actually 848 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 2: just the beginning of a focus we're going to have 849 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 2: on the Seminole people, and specifically a leader in Sterling's background, 850 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 2: the famed Floridian Seminole Osceola. It's a story of how 851 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 2: he and his people put up the most difficult military 852 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 2: resistance to America in history, and how they never lost 853 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:57,800 Speaker 2: and remain what they call unconquered. It's a wild story 854 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 2: that I know you'll enjoy. I can't thank you enough 855 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 2: for listening to Bear Grease. I look forward to talking 856 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 2: to everyone on the Render next week, and don't forget 857 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,720 Speaker 2: about that akron ak er n pro inhale exhale grunt 858 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 2: Call by Phelps. Thank you so much for listening to 859 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 2: Bear Grease and my commercial fishing on assignment undercover agent 860 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 2: Brent Reeves, this country life podcast. We really put our 861 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 2: heart and soul into all this, and we thank you 862 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 2: guys for listening. Keep the Wild Places Wild