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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People did cool stuff. We're

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Speaker 2: back in case you noticed, we weren't here, but now

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Speaker 2: we're here. The we in this case is me Murder Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and my producer Sophie Hi Sophie, my Magpie, and my.

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Speaker 3: Guest Robert Evans Hi Magpie. I listened to when I

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Speaker 3: was buying Hey today. Right before this, I went to

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Speaker 3: go get hay for my livestock at the feed store

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Speaker 3: and they were playing that song Brandy, And so now

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Speaker 3: I am in my head remixing that song instead of

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Speaker 3: being about a woman whose lover dies at sea, to

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Speaker 3: be about you making podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, Well, we can make hay from that one time

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Speaker 2: Robert and I went and got Hey, and it was

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Speaker 2: the first time in a little while at my pickup

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Speaker 2: truck got to be a pickup truck. Besides, well, I

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Speaker 2: guess it was a camper. Actually, we filled my camp

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Speaker 2: full of hay, is what happened. Yes, And it took

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Speaker 2: me a long time to get all the hay out.

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Speaker 3: It does take a long time to get all the

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Speaker 3: hay out.

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Speaker 2: But it's worth it because then the goats got to eat.

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Speaker 3: Hay, and the goats love hay So.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of this week, speaking of saying hey, oh we

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Speaker 1: should say hey to Rory.

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Speaker 2: Who's our audio engineer? Hi Rory, Hi Riight, Hi Rory?

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Speaker 2: And our theme music was written forced by unwoman and

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Speaker 2: for no particular reason, not at all. I actually genuinely

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Speaker 2: picked the subject and started researching it before the activities

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Speaker 2: that happened last week.

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Speaker 1: You did like, like, I can vouch for you.

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Speaker 2: You and I'm glad you don't believe don't have to

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Speaker 2: vouch for me in court about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just but but I would, and it would be

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Speaker 1: I would be truthful. I have like documentation full.

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Speaker 2: It's true because the thing we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 2: Robert Evans, have you ever heard of people trying to

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Speaker 2: assassinate people that they don't like?

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Speaker 3: No assassinations. No one would ever do such a thing.

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Speaker 3: No one would ever do such a thing and then

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Speaker 3: have it immediately cause Blue Cross Blue Shield to reverse

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Speaker 3: the policy on denying claims arbitrarily when the surgery takes

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Speaker 3: too long to pay for anesthetic. That would never happen.

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Speaker 2: No, there's not a whole saying about direct action gets

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Speaker 2: the goods. You all are listening to this in the future,

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Speaker 2: where the knock on effects will have become more clear.

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Speaker 2: But right now we know very We only know one

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Speaker 2: knock on effect of last week.

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Speaker 3: Which is if you've got blue Cross, you now have

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Speaker 3: to be less worried about getting surgery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and waking up in the middle of surgery, which

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Speaker 2: is basically everyone's nightmare.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Literally, that is.

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Speaker 1: So like, so many people have that fear, and that

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Speaker 1: it's grulish. Yeah, so goulish, it's so gross.

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Speaker 2: Well, the person that we're going to talk about attempting

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Speaker 2: to assassinate in the past, who's already dead, is a

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Speaker 2: little fascist he might have heard of named Mussolini.

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Speaker 3: Mussolini, I hardly know Leini. Okay, pass, and it's not

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Speaker 3: gonna work. Sorry, Mussolini.

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Speaker 2: Originally this was going to be a two parter where

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Speaker 2: one part was the people who tried when Mussolini was

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Speaker 2: coming up, and then the second part was going to

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Speaker 2: be people who succeeded when he was coming down. But

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Speaker 2: it's actually all going to be about people who tried

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Speaker 2: when he was coming up because there were so many

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Speaker 2: Did you know that an awful lot of people tried

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Speaker 2: to kill Mussolini?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean it's like with Hitler, right, like, you've

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Speaker 3: got that guy who tried to blow him up, and

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Speaker 3: that and almost did that fucking carpenter who tried to

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Speaker 3: blow him up in one of the halls. He was

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Speaker 3: speaking at all sorts of pre attempts. So I wasn't

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Speaker 3: really familiar with the ones on Mussolini, but I was

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Speaker 3: sure there had been some.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about I think eight of them

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Speaker 2: today or this week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds like the right himount Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so far, by my account, I was counting right

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Speaker 2: before I recorded. I was talking to one of my

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Speaker 2: friends about it. So far, by my account, we've got

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Speaker 2: one socialist, one Catholic, one Republican, and five anarchists attempted

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Speaker 2: to kill Mussolini. So, Benito Mussolini is famously one of

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Speaker 2: the founders of fascism, the ideology that is genuinely and

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Speaker 2: truly bad. That ninety five percent of the people on

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Speaker 2: this planet agree is bad. We just don't agree about

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Speaker 2: what counts as fascism.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's part of the problem. Yeah, yeah, it.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't help that. I mean, because some people use fascism

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Speaker 2: to just being anyone I don't like or any authoritarianism, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's not an accurate way to talk about things.

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Speaker 2: We shouldn't call our enemies fascists when they're not fascists.

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Speaker 3: Now, like Stalin wasn't really a fascist, no, because in

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Speaker 3: part fascists come to power through popular acclaim as a

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Speaker 3: result of like setting themselves up in opposition to the left.

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Speaker 3: There's this also idea that Stalin does kind of fit

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Speaker 3: in with the attitude that like the fascist dictator embodies

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Speaker 3: the people in some way, although the way in which

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Speaker 3: like Soviet propaganda talk about Stalin was actually quite different

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Speaker 3: from the way fascist propaganda tends to talk about the

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Speaker 3: leader being like an embodiment of the people. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: there are some similarities, Like there's a bunch of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Syncretism is a big part go read your umburdo Echo.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's gonna be a bunch of emburdos in this episode,

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Speaker 2: but not echo. Yeah, but it turns out Umberto is

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Speaker 2: sort of the mic of Italy. Well, yeah, McLay is

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Speaker 2: probably the mic of Italy. But fascism is one of

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Speaker 2: the most convoluted and complex political ideologies to ever come about,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the reasons why you can kind

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Speaker 2: of point to anything and call it fascism and be wrong,

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Speaker 2: but also be like, you see where you're coming from

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Speaker 2: about it, you know, because it's not actually a simple ideology.

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Speaker 2: The more as I was reading this, because Italian fascism

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Speaker 2: in particular comes out of where they're right and the

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Speaker 2: left meet, and it is not a Well we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about this. I'm not going to get too deep into

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Speaker 2: the weeds of defining fascism today, but I want to

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Speaker 2: talk first about someone who one hundred percent, absolutely I

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Speaker 2: am certain, would have been fine with assassinating someone like

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Speaker 2: Benito Mussolini. About fifteen years before Benito Mussolini came to power.

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Speaker 2: That man who would have been totally fine with killing

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Speaker 2: Benito Mussolini was Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 3: Oh because well yeah, yeah, I know that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to open up a can of orbs that the

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Speaker 2: Internet is not equipped to handle. Benito Mussolini, the founder

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Speaker 2: of the world's deadliest part right ideology, started on the left.

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Speaker 3: Yep, he sure did. Uh kind of adjacent to anarchism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. There's gonna be

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Speaker 2: a lot of it. Also started as a journalist, hooray.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, he was a socialist for a long

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Speaker 2: ass time, he was at least a second generation leftist.

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Speaker 2: Mussolini was born in the year eight teen eighty three

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Speaker 2: and he was the child of a blacksmith socialist and

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Speaker 2: a Catholic school teacher. He got named after a series

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Speaker 2: of socialists and leftists because of his father, and then

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Speaker 2: he was baptized Catholic because of his mom. He's named

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Speaker 2: Benito after Benito Juarez, the liberal president of Mexico, and

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Speaker 2: his middle names, which I forgot to look up in

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Speaker 2: Italian are Andrea and Amala Caare and these are after

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Speaker 2: two anarchists because his father was part of the Anarchist International,

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Speaker 2: which was an anti authoritarian socialist organization in the eighteen seventies.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going straight into the like the this is

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Speaker 2: like when I have to talk about eugenics on this show,

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Speaker 2: you know, whenever I have to talk about something that

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Speaker 2: was like really common and easily understood in the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 2: that makes no sense in the twenty first century. Italian

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Speaker 2: nationalism is really intertwined with the left, and it's really

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Speaker 2: intertwined with anarchism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that, I mean it makes sense when you're

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Speaker 3: coming out of a world well not very long before

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Speaker 3: this period, Italy had been fucking Habsburg property. Much of

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Speaker 3: Italy at least had been Habsburg property, right, And when

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Speaker 3: all of these things that we now just see is like, well,

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Speaker 3: obviously Italy's a country, obviously Croatia is a country. When

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Speaker 3: they're all the property of some guy in his inbred family,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot less weird that it's a left wing

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Speaker 3: position to talk about nationalism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Benito Mussolini never did really roll with the anarchists.

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Speaker 2: He kind of wanted to at different points. When he

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Speaker 2: was a socialist, he was firmly in the authoritarian socialist camp,

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Speaker 2: but he studied a lot of anarchist theory. He remained

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Speaker 2: friendly with anarchists. He was either dating or just friends with.

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Speaker 2: I've read both the anarchist orientalist poet named Leita Rafanelli.

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Speaker 2: He translated two of the anarchist Peter Kropotkin's books from

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Speaker 2: French into Italian. And because yeah, he was journalists, he

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Speaker 2: read newspapers and kind of if you were a polytical

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Speaker 2: person in the nineteenth century, if you were like a

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Speaker 2: political leader, your thing was that you were a journalist.

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Speaker 2: Your thing is that you ran a newspaper.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's the same. It's the same. Reason

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Speaker 3: is that with the generation coming up and the next

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Speaker 3: generation are all going to get their starts on TikTok

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Speaker 3: and Twitter, and like we're already seeing this on the right, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean in the left to a degree. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's because that's totally that's not the journalism. Tweeting is not,

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Speaker 3: or making TikTok is not journalism. But journalism wasn't what

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Speaker 3: we would consider journalism back then. It was just the

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Speaker 3: best way of getting propaganda to the masses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was Yeah, you wrote polemics, and propaganda

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Speaker 2: just literally meant propagating ideas. If you had an idea

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Speaker 2: and you wanted to tell people about it, you would

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Speaker 2: propagandize the idea. So Mussolini, the thing that's going to

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Speaker 2: come up throughout this week's story is that he's clearly

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Speaker 2: into authoritarianism, right, But there's something he liked about the anarchists.

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Speaker 2: He liked their courage, he likes their commitment, and he

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Speaker 2: liked action. You know, he was he wasn't the kind

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Speaker 2: of guy who wanted people to win around and talk

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Speaker 2: about things. He wanted people to go out and do things.

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Speaker 2: He also, for a long time shared their opinion that

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Speaker 2: killing autocrats was just fine.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, there's a vin diagram. We do may

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Speaker 3: not like to say it, but like, there's a Vinn

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Speaker 3: diagram at points between me and Mussolini's life right now, Totally,

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Speaker 3: I'm not against killing early twentieth century autocrats theoretically.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, totally. Yeah, if we had a time machine,

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Speaker 2: we would feel justified in going back and killing absolute

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Speaker 2: monarchs from the nineteenth century and earlier.

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Speaker 3: Look, if I could go back in time and stab

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Speaker 3: the King of Italy, I would try to.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's going to bring us to this week's first assassin.

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Speaker 3: Is it the guy who stabbed the King of Italy?

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Speaker 2: I actually can't remember whether this guy stabbed or shot him.

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Speaker 2: This is the first Okay, this is the only successful

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Speaker 2: assassin we're going to talk about for a while. But

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Speaker 2: he shaped a lot of Italy's politics for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And that man's name was Gaetano Bresci. He was a

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Speaker 2: weaver from Italy who emigrated to the US in the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century to Patterson, New Jersey. And it's kind of

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Speaker 2: funny because there's all of these different hidden, secret anarchist

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Speaker 2: strongholds of the past. I don't normally think about New

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Speaker 2: Jersey when I think about anarchism, but yeah, Patterson, New

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Speaker 2: Jersey very strong Italian anarchist scene. The next little bit,

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Speaker 2: because it's been a little while since I've looked up

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Speaker 2: Gatana Brescia. I used to write about him a lot,

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Speaker 2: So I'm kind of going into a little bit story

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Speaker 2: mode when I talk about Katana Bresci. I'm gonna have

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Speaker 2: more direct sources for the rest of the rest of

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Speaker 2: the people I'm gonna talk about. So everyone knows Katana

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Speaker 2: Breshi was hanging out New Jersey with his Irish wife, Sophie,

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Speaker 2: which is a good name, I agree, right, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: his two daughters, and she's gonna be all right in

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Speaker 2: this story.

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Speaker 1: Cool, yeah, okay, cool, don't bring the name down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, she's great. No, no negative notes on Sophie.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen ninety eight, there are these food riots in

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Speaker 2: Italy and the government was like, well, a specific general

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Speaker 2: is like, why don't we just murder the entire crowd

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Speaker 2: that's rioting, And so they did that, and we will

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Speaker 2: think food riots. They usually think like, oh, everyone like

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Speaker 2: lost their mind and was running around and burning things

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Speaker 2: or whatever. These were organized strikes that were met with

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Speaker 2: lethal force. At least eighty protesters and two soldiers were killed.

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Speaker 2: Jesus and so King Umberto the first what did he do?

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Speaker 2: And everyone at the time was like, oh, the king

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Speaker 2: is the true you know. A lot of like populism

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Speaker 2: is based on the idea that the government's bad, but

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Speaker 2: the king's good, you know.

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Speaker 3: And this translates to fascism too, right during the Third Reich,

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Speaker 3: there was always this idea that like, if only Hitler

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Speaker 3: knew right about the worst Nazi policies. Yeah, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is the same thing with the czar. Yeah yeah, no, totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We see this again and again, and so I think

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Speaker 2: everyone was kind of expecting Umberto to come in and

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Speaker 2: be like, well, you probably shouldn't have done that, right, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I did promise you more than one mburdo and this

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Speaker 2: is one of them. There'sn be another one, probably on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: But what i'mburda the first did is awarded the guy

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Speaker 2: who ordered the massacre a medal of honor, and Gatano

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Speaker 2: Bresci he didn't like that. He was living in New

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Speaker 2: Jersey with Sophie. He'd started an anarchist paper with some folks,

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Speaker 2: and he'd put up a fuck ton of money to

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Speaker 2: start that paper. It is like two hundred bucks at

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Speaker 2: the time, which is like several thousand dollars now. He

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Speaker 2: didn't want anyone else to get in trouble for what

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Speaker 2: he decided to do, so he didn't tell anyone. He

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Speaker 2: didn't tell Sophie. He just told her he had to

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Speaker 2: go deal with some stuff, like family stuff in Italy.

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Speaker 2: He didn't tell his comrades. He went into the newspaper

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Speaker 2: and said, hey, all that seed money I put in,

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Speaker 2: I need it back now. And they were like why,

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Speaker 2: and he was like, the not your business, give me

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Speaker 2: my money back. And so everyone kind of thought he

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Speaker 2: was a sellout and he was just like getting his

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Speaker 2: money to go fuck off, right. Everyone thought he left

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Speaker 2: the movement. But he got his money back and he

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Speaker 2: bought two things. He bought a Smith and Wesson and

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Speaker 2: he bought a one way ticket to Paris.

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Speaker 3: That's a song. That's a warren Zevon song right there,

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Speaker 3: Smith and Wesson in a one way ticket to Paris. Excellent.

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Speaker 2: And the king is going to die and unlike a

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Speaker 2: lot of would be assassins that we've talked about on

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Speaker 2: this show BRESHI practiced with the revolver.

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Speaker 3: Which is always key. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he made his way probably to Rome. He made

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Speaker 2: his way to Italy. He spent two days scouting out

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Speaker 2: the area where he knew the king was going to be,

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Speaker 2: and then on July twenty ninth, nineteen hundred, he went out.

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Speaker 2: He got some ice cream. I think he had lunch

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Speaker 2: with like a stranger and just hanging out and he

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Speaker 2: was like, you're gonna remember me guy, And then he

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Speaker 2: waited for Umberto to come through, waiting in the crowd

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Speaker 2: that was all there to cheer on their you know,

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Speaker 2: glorious leader, and he shot Umberto to death. The crowd

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Speaker 2: immediately grabbed him. Gaetano said, I did not kill Umberto.

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Speaker 2: I have killed the king. I have killed a principal.

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Speaker 3: Hell oh that's a good line. That's a good line.

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Speaker 2: Back home in New Jersey, his anarchist friends were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I guess we judged him wrong, and they started a

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Speaker 2: fund to look after his kids and support his family.

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Speaker 2: His wife came to Italy and testified to his good

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Speaker 2: character in court. His whole family was like arrested in

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Speaker 2: an investigation into conspiracy, but eventually everyone was let go

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Speaker 2: and Italy under a king was actually had a more

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Speaker 2: fair criminal justice system than the United States does today.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have the death penalty. Mussolini's going to bring

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Speaker 2: that back later, so he gets life in prison. He

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Speaker 2: was held in solitary confinement. He had one hour a

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Speaker 2: day of exercises, like feet were like manacled to the floor.

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Speaker 2: They didn't treat him great. Less than a year later

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Speaker 2: he was found hanging in his cell, and modern historians

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Speaker 2: are recentably certain he was murdered. At the time, everyone's like, nah,

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Speaker 2: I just killed himself. Interestingly enough, this assassination didn't bring

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Speaker 2: in sweeping reactionary forces or anything like usually people are like, ah,

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Speaker 2: you killed the king and something worse is going to happen.

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Speaker 2: This changed things, but it the existing like kind of

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Speaker 2: leftist government stayed in power, and things kind of chugged along. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it didn't even lead to they like cracked down on

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Speaker 2: the anarchist movement, but they didn't come through and destroy it.

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Speaker 2: It did lead to more international cooperation between law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: When I first started dreaming up this show years ago,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of in a different context and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk about anarchist history and I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they literally invented international policing to stop us.

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Speaker 2: Why are all of our books boring? Has been my

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Speaker 2: like go to tagline because they did. International policing exists

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Speaker 2: because of trying to stop the anarchist movement. Because yep,

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Speaker 2: nothing gets people to work together. Like like when people

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Speaker 2: go around and kill like poor people, everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that sucks whatever. When people go around and kill kings,

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Speaker 2: Kings work together to make sure that that stops.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, kings are great at like really union behave

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Speaker 3: they really work like unions royalty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when when someone comes for them as a class,

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Speaker 2: they band together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One person who defended Gaetano Breshi doing a little king

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Speaker 2: murder was a man by the name of Benito Mussolini.

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Speaker 2: His fellow socialists were claiming Bresci was crazy for having

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Speaker 2: killed the king, right. Mussolini said that tyrann aside was

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Speaker 2: quote the occupational hazard of being a king, which I

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Speaker 2: don't know I.

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Speaker 3: Mean talking about occupational hazards. Yeah, I feel confident saying

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Speaker 3: that being a king is a pre existing condition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. But what isn't a pre existing No,

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Speaker 2: but what else we're obliged to do is play ads

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Speaker 2: for you now, Yeah, like these ones and we're back. Now,

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Speaker 2: this might shock you, Robert, did you know Mussolini didn't

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Speaker 2: stay leftist?

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Speaker 3: Really? Now? I thought you were talking about Benny Mussolini,

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Speaker 3: the man who invented the three day weekend.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was reading a whole bunch on on that

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Speaker 2: website X about how actually the fascist or socialists and leftists.

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Speaker 3: You're, of course referring to the website that just plays

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Speaker 3: a looping video of the song X gonta give it

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Speaker 3: to you. That's where I get all of my historical

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Speaker 3: information about anarchists in the early nineteen hundreds as well. Yes,

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Speaker 3: uh huh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: My ex feet is certainly playing looping videos of something

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Speaker 2: right now. And so Mussolini was kicked out of the

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Speaker 2: Socialist Party because he supported interventionism, he supported Italy fighting

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Speaker 2: in World War One, and along the way he started

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Speaker 2: developing his theories on fascism, which was basically, what if

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Speaker 2: you took revolutionary socialism and then replaced it with revolutionary nationalism.

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Speaker 2: Instead of class solidarity, you had national solidarity. What if

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Speaker 2: you made all of the poor people suck up to

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Speaker 2: the rich people and then defend the nation as a concept,

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Speaker 2: the leftist trappings and some of the leftists strategies, but

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Speaker 2: with right wing goals, because at the time, right wing

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Speaker 2: was just like the status quo. Right if you defend

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Speaker 2: like the monarchy or whatever, your right wing, so there's

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Speaker 2: nothing really revolutionary about it. But fascism was like, no,

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Speaker 2: but we want the revolution and we want to feel

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Speaker 2: cool and edgy, but we also want to we really

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Speaker 2: like the taste of boots, and so we're going to

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Speaker 2: become fascists and invent this new ideology. For a few years,

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Speaker 2: a lot of politics in Italy was happening in the streets,

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Speaker 2: fascists versus anti fascists fighting it out, and for a

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Speaker 2: good several years Mussolini tried to make common cause with

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Speaker 2: the anarchists, specifically to join him against the socialists and

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Speaker 2: the communists. After all, this is the period where the

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Speaker 2: Bolsheviks and Russia were murdering anarchists on Moss and so

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Speaker 2: some folks there was a chance that Mussolini was even

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Speaker 2: going to go anarchists during this time. I actually don't

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Speaker 2: buy it, but I read one person making this argument.

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Speaker 2: He actually risked alienating his base with how much he

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Speaker 2: appreciated the anarchists interesting because his base was like, no,

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Speaker 2: those are the people we just go fight in the streets.

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Speaker 2: But Mussolini kind of admires their commitment, right, and the

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Speaker 2: anarchists don't want him. Mussolini said, quote, we are always

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Speaker 2: ready to admire men who are willing to die for

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Speaker 2: a faith they believe in selflessly. And this is him

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Speaker 2: contrasting the anarchists to the cowardly socialists. The anarchists, in

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Speaker 2: so many words, told him to eat shit and die,

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Speaker 2: refuse his overtures again and again, and soon enough they're

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Speaker 2: going to try really really hard to just outright kill

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Speaker 2: this man. The most famous Italian anarchist then and now

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Speaker 2: is this guy named Erico Malatesta. He's popped into a

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Speaker 2: bunch of our stories on the show, like when comrades

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Speaker 2: got him to Argentina by smuggling him in a crate

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Speaker 2: of sewing machines, and then he helped the Baker's Union

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Speaker 2: there become the most radical union in that country and

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Speaker 2: the model that all the other unions rush to follow.

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Speaker 2: And how today in Argentina there are still pastries named

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Speaker 2: by the anarchist Bakers, like little books and little bombs.

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Speaker 2: I really like Malatesta. He's always in and out of jail.

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Speaker 2: He's an older fellow now, I think he's in his

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Speaker 2: sixties at this point that we're talking about. And while

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Speaker 2: he's in prison in Italy, there's a huge campaign to

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Speaker 2: free him, and who supports that campaign but Benito Mussolini,

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Speaker 2: even though his followers are fighting the anarchists in the

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Speaker 2: streets during this time, Malatesta gets out and he can't

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Speaker 2: get any paper for his newspapers because of political pressure

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Speaker 2: against him, and Musolin offers him paper to print on

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Speaker 2: and Malatist is like no, what No, So Mussolini keeps

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Speaker 2: trying to be friends with them. But some anarchists and

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Speaker 2: folks from every ideology did turn fascist, right, because you

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Speaker 2: can't have a new ideology without starting with people who

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Speaker 2: used to have other ideologies. An awful lot of anarchists

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Speaker 2: turn fascist. Orwell has a really good essay about this.

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Speaker 2: George Orwell has a really good essay about this called

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Speaker 2: Notes on Nationalism that basically lays out the case that

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Speaker 2: a lot of political extremists are into extremism, not the

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Speaker 2: idea that the extremism is attached to. So you get

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Speaker 2: people going from the radical left to the radical right

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Speaker 2: reasonably often. And this unfortunately ties into the first time

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Speaker 2: that I've found of someone trying to kill Mussolini. Some

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Speaker 2: anarchists got together in nineteen twenty one, before Mussolini ever

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Speaker 2: even took formal power. He does that in nineteen twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, we got to kill this guy.

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Speaker 2: They delegate one among their number, a man named Biaggio Massi,

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Speaker 2: to go kill Mussolini. Instead, Biaggio went to Mussolini and

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Speaker 2: told him the whole plan. Mussolini protected him, and then

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Speaker 2: the very next day, because Mussolini has just been I

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Speaker 2: don't know, cunning or whatever, yeah, Mussolini goes and gives

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Speaker 2: a speech about how the government needs to really release

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Speaker 2: Mala Testa, right, even though he has just learned that

428
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: the anarchists or trying to kill him. He's a forty

429
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 2: chess kind of man, this Mussolini.

430
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, unfortunately he is.

431
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: He was.

432
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 3: I mean, one thing you learned about Mussolini and all

433
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: these guys, with the exception of Franco, who unfortunately kept

434
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 3: a pretty good grip on his rationality throughout his life,

435
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: is most of them are a lot more cunning and

436
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: better at planning before they get into power. And it's

437
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 3: almost like power damages your brain in a way that

438
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 3: makes you less capable of like clamping down on your

439
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: own worse impulses and analyzing things logically.

440
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me. There's also this thing where

441
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 2: people are always like Mussolini's like the little brother of Hitler,

442
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: you know, and he's kind of a joke because Italy's

443
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: military mite is not the same as Germany's. Right, Mussolini

444
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: pulled off something pretty incredible, like terrible evil, but like

445
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 2: he did become dictator of a major country. That is

446
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: like a hard thing to do.

447
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I could become dictator of Italy. Yeah, no,

448
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: I know, but you get give me six months, Margaret, Okay,

449
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 3: six months and a lot of pizza pies. If we

450
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: know anything about our Italians, Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut's probably fine.

451
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 2: I really like the pizza in Italy.

452
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

453
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 2: I like how every country of not every country, but

454
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 2: most countries I've been to, the American version of their

455
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: national food is hard to get vegan, but in the

456
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: country that I'm in, it's actually reasonably easy. Like it's

457
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 2: really easy to just go into any train station in

458
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 2: Aley and by vegan pizza.

459
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: You could feel about how this however you want, but

460
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: undeniably like one of the most intense flexes in the

461
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: history of international conflict is when the US had the

462
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: former premiere of the Soviet Union become a spokesman for

463
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: Pizza Hut, Like that was just such a wow. Well,

464
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, I guess you guys lost that God

465
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 3: like Jesus, Jesus.

466
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: So Mussolini comes to power in October nineteen twenty two,

467
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: first as the Prime minister. There's something that's like not

468
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: not a coup. I mean, it's not a coup, but

469
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: it's also not not a coup. Right, thirty thousand of

470
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: his black Shirts, his personal army, marched on Rome. In

471
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: the March on Rome. The Liberal government was like, hey,

472
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: let's declare martial law to stop this, but then the

473
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: king was like, no, let's just put that guy in

474
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: charge instead. Mussolini immediately helped out the rich people. He

475
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: was not a fucking leftist at this point, immediately helped

476
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: out all the rich people, centralized power and just was

477
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: a right wing shit bag. By nineteen twenty four, he

478
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: was like, look, there's not a democracy anymore. Okay, it's

479
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: just fascism, and Italy became fascist and people didn't really

480
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: like that. There are some occupational hazards to being a dictator. First,

481
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: and most famous at the time but not the most

482
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: famous now was a socialist politician named Tito Zanaboni. And

483
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: don't worry. If you're like, hey, that sounds like Zamboni

484
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: and you think that's clever, don't worry. There's two Zamboni's later. Okay, okay,

485
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 2: but this one's Xanaboni.

486
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 3: This is not a serious country. Look, I know we're

487
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 3: talking about serious things, but Italy, I just I'm sorry,

488
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 3: it's just not.

489
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: One time I was in Italy and my friend took

490
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: me to like her very nice apartment in oh I

491
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: don't remember which city. I was on tour for like

492
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: a month and I went to a bunch of cities

493
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: and she was like, looks out, and I'm like, how

494
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 2: do you afford this like amazing, fantastic place. And she

495
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: goes to the window and points down to this like

496
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: public square right outside, and she's like, that's where the

497
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: mafia assassinates, like executes people in public. No one wants

498
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: to live here.

499
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: I mean, shit, you could do that in front of

500
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 3: my house if I could have paid, like, you know,

501
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: thirty percent less. Absolutely. Look, I'm not I'm not getting

502
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: involved with the mafia. They got no reason to be

503
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 3: pissed at me. Yeah, I don't see shit. Yeah she

504
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 3: stays here gunshots at night. I don't know what you're

505
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 3: talking about. Yeah, MafA, what.

506
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: Most of the places that have been really nice, that like,

507
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: have been aesthetically really nice that I can afford to

508
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 2: live in, have had gunshots outside at night. Yeah that's true.

509
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: I mean I have twice been coming home to my

510
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: house when someone has a couple of blocks away been

511
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 3: shooting it out with the police. Yeah. A nice place

512
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: to live, a nice place to live.

513
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: And like, I'm not the police, so I'm not worried.

514
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 3: Again, shut, I'm not the police. These people have no

515
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: reason to be angry at me. Yeah.

516
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 2: So before we talk about Tito, we're going to talk

517
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: about another Italian socialist politician, Jacomo Matdietodi Madia Maddiodi.

518
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: You best friend, Buca di Beppo.

519
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: Tacoma Maddiot Maddieodi was a socialist politician who tried repeatedly

520
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: to expose most Mussolini and fascism for what they were.

521
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: After he published a book against the fascists and accused

522
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: them of fraud the fascists, who were certainly people of action.

523
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: On June tenth, nineteen twenty four, Jacomo was kidnapped by

524
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 2: the Fascist secret police, who stabbed him to death with

525
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: a carpenter's file. I believe in the car. This wasn't

526
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: a lot of ways the thing that paved the way

527
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: for Mussolini to declare himself dictator. I'm going to oversimplify

528
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: this dangerously, but after a lot of handwringing and investigations

529
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: and castigations of the fascists for this kind of thing,

530
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: eventually Mussolini was like, look, I'm a fascist, though I'm

531
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: in charge, and we're going to stab people to death

532
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: with carpenter's files, and you're just gonna deal with it.

533
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: This had an enormous amount of knock on effects. One

534
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: of them was that this other socialist politician, tito 'sanaboni,

535
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: he got real mad. He had been part of the

536
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: search efforts to find his friend. Before that, he'd been

537
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: part of signing a peace treaty between the socialists and

538
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: the fascists. But after they killed his friend. Oh yeah,

539
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: the Socialist signed of peace treaty of the fascists. After

540
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: I talk about all the anarchists, he became fascists and stuff.

541
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: It's worth pointing out the Socialist sign of peace treaty

542
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: with the fascists. After they killed his friend, He's like,

543
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: all right, fuck this, we got to shoot this guy.

544
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: And he and his friends conspired to kill Massolini. Tito's

545
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: a war hero, so he got a precision rifle and

546
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: he set himself up to station himself in a window

547
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: to shoot Mussolini from far away. But among his co

548
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: conspirators was an informant. So Tito and actually a general

549
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: in the army and the Italian Army were both sent

550
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: to prison. I think they got the maximum set, which

551
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: was thirty years. At the time, great, the United Socialist

552
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: Party was no more. In court, Tito used the same

553
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: defense as most of Mussolini's would be assassins used later,

554
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: which is the defense of yeah, but fuck Mussolini, though

555
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: somebody should shoot him just you know, not always the

556
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: best way to get off in court, but like looks

557
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: good in history.

558
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: Books, Yeah, looks good. I mean, there's right around this time,

559
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: the case of Saga Montealurian, who a Berlin jury decided like,

560
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: oh no, no, it was totally fine that he assassinated

561
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: that guy who did a genocide. Oh yeah, you're totally politician.

562
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we covered this one on the Armenian Genocide episode. Yeah.

563
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, everybody who might wind up in a

564
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: court in New York start looking up jury nullifications right now.

565
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

566
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: So.

567
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: Tito is released in nineteen forty three when the fascist

568
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 2: government fell. Which is the other thing that comes up

569
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: a lot, is that revolutionaries or in this case, I mean,

570
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: it wasn't even a revolutionary as a politician who was like, yeah,

571
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: but other politicians shouldn't murder people, you know, and people

572
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: go to jail for a really long time. Right wing

573
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: governments often fall, and if you can stay alive in

574
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: jail long enough, you'll be free again. But someone else

575
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: was directly inspired by the death of Jacamo Mattiot. One

576
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: of my favorites strange and misunderstood assassins in history, Violet Gibson.

577
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: Have you heard of I feel like that there's one

578
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: I've heard the name. Yeah, if there's one assassin people

579
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: have probably heard of. Violet Gibson This is the most

580
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: widely known attempt on his life in the modern era

581
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: because it's the one that makes the coolest social media headline.

582
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: Is there like a song?

583
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: There are there's actually there's songs about her.

584
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: There's documentaries, and I really hope I'm thinking of the

585
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: right person and also sound dumb.

586
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: She was like really short, right, yeah, she's five foot one,

587
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, okay, oh.

588
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, hell yeah. So I love stories about short ladies

589
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: doing badass that. My grandma was like four foot eleven.

590
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, my grandpa was six ' five And because

591
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: she was so small during World War Two, she had

592
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: a special job. They would hold her by her feet

593
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: and shove her inside the wings of P fifty one

594
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 3: mustangs so she could like weld them or like do bolting,

595
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: or she was like welding them on the inside. There

596
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: was like an area that needed welds that only the

597
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: tiniest girls could fit.

598
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, fucking.

599
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: Raby as somebody who definitely can't rich things on the

600
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: top shelf. I'm very excited to hear more about Violet.

601
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: Also, the only person who I'm going to talk about

602
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: today who successfully shot the man.

603
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: Well done.

604
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the lessons is that nobody knew

605
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: how to shoot in the past. Yeah, and most people

606
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 3: don't know how to shoot today. Also.

607
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

608
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: So.

609
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: Violet Gibson was a forty nine year old Irish woman

610
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 2: from Dublin who lived in a convent in Rome and

611
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: shot Mussolini in the face on April seventh, nineteen twenty six.

612
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: What's not to lot? God Ireland stays winning.

613
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I do. Mostly the part to not

614
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: like about the story is that he turned his head

615
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: at the last minute. Yeah, he didn't die, and she

616
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: only grazed his nose. But there are good pictures of him,

617
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: like with the like bandage on his nose or whatever.

618
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: There's no comparisons that can be made now to the

619
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: modern world.

620
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: No about people turning their heads.

621
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah and getting grazed. Yep. The world would have been

622
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: a very different place if he had not turned his head.

623
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: Yep.

624
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: Violet Gibson was a thin woman about five foot one.

625
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: Her father was the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. She grew

626
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: up She's Anglo Irish, right, and she.

627
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: Grew up like oh wow, so her like they're like

628
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: the English landlord yeah type deal. Yeah yeah, yeah, oh

629
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: like Lawrence of Arabia yeah.

630
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: Totally uh And like Lawrence of Arabia, she's crazy as shit.

631
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: But people use this to invalidate and like claim that

632
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: her action wasn't political or thought out, and that's what

633
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: I want to argue against. But I can't argue against

634
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: her being crazy at shit, and I'm going to tell

635
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: you why. But she grew up riches hell. She was

636
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: a debutante, debuted in Queen Victoria's court, which I only

637
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: vaguely understand what is through. Mostly my friends who are

638
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: from the South, most telling to the story come down

639
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: to I don't know she did it because she was crazy.

640
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: I am going to make the case as she did

641
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 2: it because she was a politically committed Catholic socialist who

642
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 2: wanted to do right by God and people by killing

643
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: a man who went on to be responsible for millions

644
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: of deaths who was also crazy. She was always esoteric.

645
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: She was raised Protestant right her mother became a Christian scientist,

646
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: and so she herself experimented with Christian science and then

647
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: she got into theosophy for a while, but then she converted.

648
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: She found another esoteric religion to get involved in Catholicism.

649
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: When she was twenty six and she stayed a Catholic

650
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: for the rest of her life. She was sick all

651
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: of the time, her body carried the scars of many surgeries,

652
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: and she spent years working at various pacifist organizations. The

653
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: craziest thing she did, which is left out of the

654
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: leftist accounts of her story, but it's included in the

655
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: right wing accounts of her story that are like demonizing her,

656
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: but they're verifiable. There, I believe this happened. So she

657
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: used to walk around Dublin with a Bible in one

658
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: hand and a knife in the other.

659
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 3: And I hate to say it, but that is that

660
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 3: is pretty cool.

661
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, like, yeah, no, she's I would want

662
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 2: to meet her, maybe from a distance, but I would

663
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: want to meet her.

664
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: I would want to like observe her from a safe distance.

665
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, yeah, exactly. She talked all the time about

666
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: the necessity of mortifying the flesh, which is normally about

667
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: like killing the urge to sin, but she seemed to

668
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: want to kill. That was that was part of her

669
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: way of understanding that particular doctrine. Around nineteen twenty, she

670
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: attacked a young woman with a knife, cutting the woman's

671
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: face and hands, and so she spent two years in

672
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 2: an asylum, and I don't know enough about that attack

673
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: to know like if there's any motivation beyond something about

674
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: how she wanted to like replicate the uh sacrifice of

675
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: so and so in the Bible or whatever. Sure, when

676
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: she got out, she moved a convent in Rome. I

677
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: believe this was kind of a like, yeah, you're like

678
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: super rich, though, so you can go be in this convent.

679
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: Her friends thought to themselves, she's probably going to kill somebody,

680
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: maybe the pope, but they didn't try to stop her,

681
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: which is really funny because they're probably all Irish Catholics

682
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: and they're just like, eh, whatever. Then in nineteen twenty four,

683
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: when Jacamo was murdered, the guy murdered to death with

684
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: a carpenter's file. Yeah, she was heartbroken because she was

685
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: a Catholic socialist, right, and so she decided to like

686
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: revenge that killing by shooting herself in the chest. The

687
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: bullet bounced off her ribs and she survived. And if

688
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: you want to survive in the world that's coming, you

689
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: need to buy literally everything that is advertised on this show.

690
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: It is the only way to survive. I believe it's

691
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: not a guarantee. But here's ads.

692
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 3: And we're back.

693
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: Mussolini. At this point I read a whole bunch of

694
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: New York Times articles and like other like newspaper articles

695
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: from this time, and they're all like Mussolini's great. We

696
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: all like Mussolini because he's stopping the Bolsheviks. You know.

697
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: Mussolini was being courted by the Western world. The King

698
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: of England awarded him the Order of the Bath, which

699
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: is not in order to take a bath, unfortunately, but

700
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: instead a knighthood, and Violet Gibson decided that the way

701
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: to glorify God was to assassinate Mussolini. He showed up

702
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: at one of his talks in nineteen twenty six with

703
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: a revolver and a rock. The rock was to break

704
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: his windshield if necessary, which later assassins would have been

705
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: more successful if they had also brought a rock. The

706
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: modern mind can't really understand her motive, I think, because

707
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: her motive was primarily religious, but it was also political.

708
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: She did it to quote glorify God, and Angel kept

709
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 2: her arm steady. I told this story to a Catholic

710
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: anarchist friend of mine, whose response was basically like, oh,

711
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: those Irish and their angels. Mussolini turned his head. At

712
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: the last minute, she grazed his nose. She tried to

713
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: fire again, but the gun jammed. And I've read that

714
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: what he yelled at the time that he was shot

715
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 2: was fancy a woman, but that might have been later

716
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: he told the crowd, don't be afraid. This is a

717
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: mere trifle, and then like later he went on this

718
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: rant about how he's totally down to die violently as

719
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: long as like a good, glorious death, but if he's

720
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: like killed by an old lady, he just can't handle it,

721
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: which is why I wish Violet had succeeded over everyone else. Yeahs, Yeah.

722
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: The crowd caught her and beat her, and she was

723
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: whisked away by the cops and declared insane. People said

724
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 2: that she was paranoid and that was why she tried

725
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 2: to kill him, because she was paranoid. I hate to

726
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: break it to the people back then, she was correct

727
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: about this particular thing. She spent the rest of her

728
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: life in various institutions. She wrote letter after letter pleading

729
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 2: to be set free, but those letters were never sent

730
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 2: because you know, men are crazy, right, That's fine, That's

731
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: a sarcastic remind Yeah, probably caught onto that she told

732
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 2: people that her mood controlled the weather.

733
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 3: Okay, well did it.

734
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: If she'd killed Mussolini, she would have stopped like three

735
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: million deaths. Maybe her moods like I want to kill

736
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: Mussolini have a pretty major impact.

737
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I can't prove that she's wrong.

738
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. It reminds me of when I covered Joan of

739
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 2: Arc on this show, where people are like, oh, feminist

740
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: icon except you know, obviously she was just crazy with

741
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: her visions from God. And it's just that people were

742
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: conceiving of reality in different ways than we conceive of

743
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: it now. And I think that people have a hard

744
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: time wrapping their heads around that she died in nineteen

745
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 2: fifty six at the age of seventy nine. She did

746
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: outlive Mussolini. No family members came to her funeral. History

747
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: has vindicated her, and there's now a plaque for her

748
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 2: on her childhood home in Dublin that describes her accurately

749
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: as a committed anti fascist. And it was articles about

750
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: this from like right wing Irish people. Is how I

751
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: learned about how she would run around and stab people

752
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: and things like that.

753
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: Is it possible that there was like, no one at

754
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 3: her funeral because this, I mean, I had just made

755
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: a comment about Ireland's staying winning. But Ireland's history are

756
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: e the fascists in this period is not particularly clean,

757
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: in large part because the fascists were in opposed to

758
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 3: the British government and so there was a lot of

759
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 3: at least the enemy of my enemy is my friend

760
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: thing among the Irish, as well as the fact that

761
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: Franco was like a Catholic, Like, it's not a clean

762
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: period for Ireland entirety.

763
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: No either, it's not. But she's also Anglo Irish, right.

764
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: Well, I mean he had that also makes sense, you right,

765
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: had forgotten that.

766
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 2: And I think it's I think overall it was just like, oh,

767
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: there's our crazy aunt. She's just crazy. She just wanted

768
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: to kill a guy. You know, that's like my best guess.

769
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: But I'm not I'm not certain people didn't like her

770
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: at the time, and now there's been kind of this

771
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: reclamation of her legacy. But Mussolini was particularly good at

772
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: turning attempts on his life into popular support, which is

773
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: like what you do if someone tries to kill you, right,

774
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: You neither say like, oh no, I'm afraid and the

775
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 2: enemy is scary and bad, which is not a good

776
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: way to gain power. Or you can say like ha

777
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: ha haa, they can't get me, but they want it

778
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: because they're evil. You know, almost every article about attempts

779
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: on Mussolini's life from then or now is basically like,

780
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: but this particular attempt is what Mussolini used to consolidate power.

781
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: Everything was fine until this person tried to kill him,

782
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: and then woo, she just like swept in with fascism.

783
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that that's people number one.

784
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: It's like working backwards, which you shouldn't do when you're

785
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 3: trying to analyze people psychologically. Now that said, I don't

786
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 3: know that I would say there's it didn't have an

787
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: impact on the character of the regime, just like it's

788
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 3: probably fair to like, whatever Trump does next, the shooting

789
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: will probably have impacted because it clearly affected his mental.

790
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: State right totally.

791
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: Maybe it'll mean that he's a little less coherent and

792
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: a little less like, maybe even less willing to take

793
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 3: risks he might otherwise have taken. Maybe it'll mean he's

794
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: more vengeful. We don't know yet. We'll all be learning soon.

795
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 3: But it definitely. The presidency we are going to get

796
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 3: out of him now is different than if he had

797
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: won and nobody had shot him, right, Like, that's just

798
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: we don't know how, and we'll never know how. But

799
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: that's just a reality. Because nearly being shot to death

800
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: on live television changes you, changes anybody. You don't have

801
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: to be a good person.

802
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 2: And it's like people talk about like hindsight is twenty twenty,

803
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 2: but it's not, because you don't know what the other

804
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: options were. You know, you can only see the one

805
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: thing that happened. Yeah, and Mussolini would have become dictator

806
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: if no one had tried to kill him, yeah, you know. Yeah,

807
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: and it he used moments like this to consolidate power,

808
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: because anyone would.

809
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can't let something like this go to waste.

810
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: And also just like continuing to work after you've nearly

811
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 3: been shot to death in the head probably also just

812
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 3: kind of mentally necessary, Like you're gonna make use of

813
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: that because otherwise you're going to sit alone in a

814
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: room and think about how you nearly got your brains

815
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: blown out.

816
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Yeah, Yeah, he keeps you know, he's got

817
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: a lot of mistresses. Although new York Times just is

818
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: gonna run articles. I'll talk about him later, but New

819
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 2: York Times like, oh, he's just hanging out with his family.

820
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: He's a family man.

821
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 3: Like, Oh, they loved Mussolini, Benito. I mean a lot

822
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: of Americans really liked Mussolini in part because, like he was,

823
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: he was a very very much a celebrity dictator in

824
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: a way that Hitler. Hitler was, but not in this

825
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: like Hitler was, you know, famous and managed to become

826
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: beloved in Germany. Mussolini had a level of like international

827
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 3: like movie star cloud in part because he looked handsome

828
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: in his photos in a way Hitler didn't really like

829
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: he looked like a movie star, you know, not in

830
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: real life. But he you know, he had good he

831
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 3: had good people, worry, and he had a lot of

832
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: movie stars hanging out with him, by the way, a

833
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 3: lot of American ones. And he like knew.

834
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: More about philosophy and art and shit like that, you know,

835
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: which was like a lot of the ways to be

836
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: kind of like cool at the time. And like, I mean,

837
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: he created a philosopher one that is still around.

838
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 3: Yep.

839
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: It's a bad one, yep. So there's another thing that's

840
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: going to tie into this that is going on the

841
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: Italian anarchist world and the Italian American world and just

842
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 2: the news in general. And it's another thing that, like,

843
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: looking back, it's hard to see why this is as

844
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: big of a deal as it was. And this is

845
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: the trial of Sacco and Vinzetti. Have you heard of this?

846
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, those are the two American anarchists

847
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: who there was a bombing. They got accused of it executed,

848
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: didn't do it, right, am I am? I own the

849
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: basics there.

850
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: So what's funny about it? It's messy.

851
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: The general version is usually it is Yeah, this was

852
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 3: like cumulatively four sentences over the course of my high

853
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: school education.

854
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: And it's probably the only time during anyone' high school

855
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: education the word anarchist gets mentioned. Besides like maybe you're

856
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: going to get sho gosh killing McKinley, but probably not.

857
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 3: I don't even think I learned about McKinley getting assassinated.

858
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: I don't think I learned it was an anarchist. But

859
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: maybe I barely remember high school.

860
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. I honestly, whenever I'm like my high

861
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: school teacher didn't teach me this, I'm like I don't

862
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: know how would I have known. I got c's like

863
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 2: what you know.

864
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: But I definitely remember knowing that Saco and Vinzetti had

865
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: been anarchists.

866
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: Because that one was inescapable, and it was this incredibly

867
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: important celebrity trial all over the world. And basically some

868
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: Italian American anarchists or mafia, but almost certainly anarchists, were

869
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: robbing a guy who carried the wages, basically the equivalent

870
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 2: of an armored truck robbery, and someone shot and killed

871
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: the paymaster and a guard. Two Italian American anarchists, Saqua

872
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: and Venzetti were put on trial. The entire leftist world,

873
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: not just the anarchists, was convinced that they were innocent,

874
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 2: and basically this whole thing was seen as like a

875
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: travesty of justice. In nineteen twenty one, they were found

876
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: guilty and sentenced to death, but it took years for

877
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 2: the state to kill them because the outcry was so

878
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 2: much that they had to have all these appeals and

879
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: investigation and things like that. This dragged on for years.

880
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: Later historians have been like, well, Sacho probably did it,

881
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 2: uh and Venzetti maybe, Like it's possible Venzetti was there

882
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 2: and therefore actually criminally liable, but like didn't pull the trigger.

883
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: It's also possible that they weren't there because a lot

884
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: of the evidence that they did do it comes from

885
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: a guy we're going to talk about later who's an

886
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: anarchist bomb maker who turned into a fascist informant named

887
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: Mario Buddha. H.

888
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 3: Well, it's also an unfortunate truth that a lot of

889
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: times that people who are most willing to make things

890
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 3: like bombs are also driven more by rage than like

891
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: political conviction, and thus very easy to swing to a

892
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: politics that entirely exists on the basis of rage. Yeah,

893
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: which is why we really do try here not to

894
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: idolize people whose only contribution is that they did a violence. Yeah, totally,

895
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 3: even when everybody's making some very funny jokes on social media,

896
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 3: Yeah right now about a thing that just happened.

897
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 2: No, it's true, and that is like something that yeah

898
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: fun time to have decided to write this episode. But

899
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: the important thing about the Saque and Benzetti case is

900
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: that this trial was huge, The outcry was enormous, and

901
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: one thing that happened in this is that the fascists

902
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: tried hard to capitalize on it. And did capitalize on

903
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: it because most of the outcry against the trials that

904
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: the trial was unfair as a result of the US's

905
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: anti Italian and anti anarchist bigotry. A fuck ton of

906
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: the Italian American crowd was either anarchist or fascist, and

907
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: so both the fascists and the anarchists rallied for Saquo

908
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: and Venzetti. Mussolini was cynically using the trial to stir

909
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: up nationalism at home and continuing his oddtures to the anarchists,

910
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: even though he was in power by most of this point,

911
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: and he's cracking down on the anarchists left and right.

912
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: His soldiers are burning photos of that guy Mala Testa.

913
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: Anarchists are being rounded up and stuff. Yet Mussolini is

914
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 2: telling his ambassadors to try and intervene on behalf of

915
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: Saco and Benzetti because Mussolini wanted to be seen as

916
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: the man who protected Italians everywhere. And he has all

917
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 2: these quotes that are like, I cannot agree with anything

918
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 2: that these men stand for, but they're Italian by God,

919
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: and America shouldn't kill them or whatever I'm now paraphrasing.

920
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: Terribly great stuff.

921
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't love their murders, but I support them.

922
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: Being Italian, they ought to be free.

923
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, fair enough. And what does this have

924
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: to do with Violet Gibson. Well, this is going to

925
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: turn into one of the best zings against America that

926
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: I've ever read about h only third, nineteen twenty seven,

927
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: Mussolini wrote, it is certain that the execution of Saco

928
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 2: Vanzetti would provide the pretext for a vast and continuous

929
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: agitation throughout the world. The fascist government, which is strongly

930
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: authoritarian and does not give quarter to the Bolsheviks, very

931
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 2: often employs clemency in individual cases. The governor of Massachusetts

932
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: should not lose the opportunity for a humanitarian act whose

933
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: repercussions would be especially positive in Italy, and fascist newspapers

934
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 2: were now contrasting the American government as more totalitarian than

935
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: the fascist Italian government because the Italian system, the fascist system,

936
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 2: had let Violet Gibson return to her own country, and

937
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 2: there is no death penalty in Italy at this point.

938
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: That's nice.

939
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: People could literally kill kings and get life in prison.

940
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: Comparing this to the barbaric United States. And this is

941
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: the thing that I love about it is like the

942
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 2: dude's got a point yep. The US president industrial system

943
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: is like a nightmare. It sure is, and was worse

944
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: than the fascist government.

945
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: I mean at the you know, it depends on the stage,

946
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 3: but at the early stages, you know, Mussolini does eventually

947
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 3: invade Ethiopia and deploy chemical weapons. Yeah, yeah, that's certainly

948
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 3: an argument that you could have made earlier in Mussolini's regime.

949
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: You have to remember he was not He definitely was

950
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 3: killing his political enemies.

951
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he had the stabbed a dude to death

952
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 2: of a file.

953
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, not necessarily in a way. That's a higher

954
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: body count than, for example, the number of black people

955
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 3: being murdered by police in apartheid states in the United States, right, yeah, like,

956
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: which is not a different thing to me. I don't

957
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 3: consider that to be better than I don't know, rounding

958
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: up like a few dozen socialists and murdering them or

959
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 3: whatever like that, and the constant mass the constant murder

960
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 3: at a pretty high rate of blackmen in the set

961
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: by cops and vigilantes, like both things that I would

962
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 3: put on a similar moral level.

963
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I'm not trying to be like Benito Mussolini

964
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: is great.

965
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 3: You know no, no, no, no, I didn't. I didn't

966
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: think you were. Yeah, I'm just saying like, yeah, that's

967
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 3: not an irrational statement to make at that point in time,

968
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 3: knowing what they knew.

969
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And Violet she was not alone in her

970
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: quest to see the duke die. The next attempt was

971
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: on September eleventh, nineteen twenty six, and this is why

972
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: people remember September eleventh, and this is probably the most

973
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: organized attempt. Sophie is clearly agrees with me.

974
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 3: Did anything else happen on September eleventh? Ever? That seems

975
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 3: like one of those.

976
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: Is that coup that happened somewhere is such a smooth joke? Yeah,

977
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: thank you.

978
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 3: I'm looking. I'm looking at my calendar of various September

979
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: elevenths that I keep for no reason. Yet it doesn't

980
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: look like anything's ever happened on another September eleventh that

981
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: I can Yeah, that I've got. Okay, you're the funniest

982
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: person I know. That must be why I celebrate nine

983
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 3: to eleven. Wait, exactly, shit, Margaret, Margaret, I'm getting some

984
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 3: very bad Google results. Suddenly, we need to edit that out. Oh,

985
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 3: my god, Oh my god, all those poor people. Holy shit.

986
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I lived in New York City y September eleven,

987
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 2: so I saw the towers on fire. There's all the

988
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: smoking remains. But anyway, the socialist politician had failed. The

989
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 2: Catholic wingnut had failed. Time to bring in the professionals.

990
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 2: If there's one group that knows about killing kings and

991
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: monarchs and stuff, it's the anarchists. Again, we all know

992
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 2: they failed, but you know what, they tried real hard.

993
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 2: The next attempt was by a man named Gino Lucetti,

994
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 2: who I'll tell you about along with his cousin Gino,

995
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: because his name is Geno, but so is his cousin.

996
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,959
Speaker 2: That's the thing I'm saying. Well, i'll tell you about

997
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 2: it on Wednesday.

998
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 3: Excellent. You know, Wednesday, Margaret, is the day that comes

999
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 3: after Tuesday. That's a little science fact. Those of you

1000
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 3: in the audience, thank.

1001
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: You so much for telling us that. I have no idea.

1002
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: I have no idea how we would have.

1003
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 3: Wait, we tried to shoot a little bit a couple

1004
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 3: of facts your way.

1005
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why it's edutainment.

1006
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 3: That's why it's edutainment.

1007
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: Right.

1008
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, So remember, folks, Wednesday, day after Tuesday. Thursday comes

1009
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 3: the day before Monday, and that's all I gotta say.

1010
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: It comes before Monday.

1011
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, Tomorrow is Saturday.

1012
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 2: And after Monday. Is the weirdest thing about Thursday.

1013
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's the day so nice they

1014
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 3: made it happen twice.

1015
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: It I can't even there's nothing I can do with that.

1016
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, Margant, I wish you and I could hang

1017
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 3: out all eleven days of the week.

1018
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: I know, I know that'd be nice, but I only

1019
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 2: have so many hours in the day and I don't

1020
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:48,399
Speaker 2: remember how many it.

1021
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: Is forty one?

1022
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: Oh okay, no, yeah, that makes sense. Yes, but Robert Evans,

1023
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 2: where can people find more about you or what do

1024
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 2: you do?

1025
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 3: Well, you can find me wedding away in my basement,

1026
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: because you and I only use an antique coptic Christian

1027
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 3: calendar and day system based largely on a step pyramid

1028
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 3: that used to exist but was bulldozed in what was

1029
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 3: once Sumeria, so it takes a lot of time to

1030
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 3: remember what day it is. Yeah, we really kept this

1031
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 3: bit going for a while.

1032
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: I feel like at the end of a Gijoe episode

1033
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: where you tell kids to like not hide in refrigerators. Right.

1034
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 2: I feel like it's worth pointing out that I really

1035
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: am talking about history here and that nothing necessarily good

1036
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: happened for many of the attempts that I'm describing. I

1037
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: am not morally against the attempts that I am describing.

1038
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: I'm clearly not of this thing that happened in the

1039
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 2: nineteen twenties, but I want to be clear on that.

1040
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 3: Just that is the thing. I can think of very

1041
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: few assassinations in history where ultimately you would look at

1042
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 3: it and say that, like, yeah, that worked out really well.

1043
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 3: Is particularly that worked out well by the person carrying

1044
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: out the assassination standards. Really the one that like Sogam

1045
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 3: and Tealurian who shot you know, one of the young

1046
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,959
Speaker 3: Turks who orchestrated the Armenian genocide, that worked out great

1047
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: by his standards, and everyone else's that guy who shot

1048
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 3: Abe seems to the long run of that seems to

1049
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: have been positive. Very few other instances, like I don't

1050
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: know that i'd say McKinley worked well in the long run.

1051
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 3: Obviously shooting the archduke fucking disaster.

1052
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's it is worth thinking about that anarchists

1053
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: had given up on propaganda by the deed at this point,

1054
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: propaganda by the deed. It was this anarchist idea that

1055
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: people were like, well, the masses don't really read theory,

1056
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 2: so let's just show them by killing all the kings

1057
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 2: and the you know, the people who are in charge

1058
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 2: of them. And it overall was disastrous for the anarchist

1059
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 2: movement because it just led people to then defend the

1060
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: very systems that the anarchists were opposed to. And this

1061
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 2: happened time and time again. There are exceptions. During are

1062
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 2: the run up to the Russian Revolution. You have like

1063
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: about from like nineteen oh three to nineteen seventeen, anarchists

1064
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 2: and other groups were all doing these attendants, all doing

1065
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 2: these assassinations, and it did lead to a revolutionary situation, which,

1066
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 2: of course, i'll kind of ended badly and created the

1067
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: United the USSR. But usually these kind of things destroy

1068
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: a social movement. Sometimes, if enough people are interested in it,

1069
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: it builds a social movement, but usually it doesn't. And

1070
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 2: that is the like it's a crapshoot at best, It's

1071
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 2: a like, let's redraw our hand of cards and probably

1072
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: get something worse yep. But still, if someone had successfully

1073
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 2: killed Mussolini. I bet the world would have been a

1074
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: better place.

1075
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, but the if within the if contains a

1076
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 3: lot of reasons. Why you know, we're going to say

1077
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 3: for legal reasons here, assassinations probably not worth it.

1078
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: And we're gonna talk about like five more of them

1079
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: on Wednesday.

1080
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1081
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: At the end here, I just want to plug if

1082
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: you haven't listened, I just am plugging this on anything

1083
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: I can. I just want to plug our colleague James

1084
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: Stouts series from Reporting from the Darien Gap about one

1085
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: of the worst land migration places in the world, and

1086
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: just you know, the stories and people he talked to there,

1087
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: and I just want to plug that because it's an

1088
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: amazing series and I'm very proud of James.

1089
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: I started listening to it. I haven't finished it yet.

1090
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 2: It is really good. It's really good.

1091
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: Yes, So if you have time around the end of

1092
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: the year and you're like, oh, I need something to binge,

1093
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: James did five episodes.

1094
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 2: On It could happen here on it could have thank you,

1095
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: and it could happen here. All right, see y'all on Wednesday.

1096
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: Bye.

1097
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: Cool People who Did Cool Stuff is a product of

1098
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. More podcasts from Cool Zone Media. Visit

1099
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: our website folezonemedia dot com, or check us out on

1100
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1101
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 2: Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.