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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three sixty seven of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Before we get into our conversation,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to share that on Thursday, July eighteenth and

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Speaker 1: Friday July nineteenth, we'll be holding our inaugural Therapist Summit

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. We're shining a light on our community of

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Speaker 1: therapists and all those who dedicated their careers to holding

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Speaker 1: space for others by gathering some of our favorite voices

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Speaker 1: in the field to share strategies for scaling your practice

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Speaker 1: and for some much needed networking in play. Visit Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash Healers to secure your ticket

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Speaker 1: and for more information. Now, let's hear a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Christal West and I'm on the Therapy for

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Speaker 2: Black Girls podcast. I'm in session today unpacking my journey

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Speaker 2: to becoming a therapist.

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Speaker 1: This July, Therapy for Black Girls is bringing our yearly

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Speaker 1: Minority Mental Health Month celebration in person to Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Join us Thursday July eighteenth and Friday, July nineteenth as

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Speaker 1: we shine a light on mental health profits and all

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Speaker 1: those who dedicated their careers to holding space for others.

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Speaker 1: Our inaugural Holding Space for Healers Therapists Summit will gather

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Speaker 1: some of our favorite voices in the field for workshops, seminars,

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Speaker 1: and opportunities to connect. You don't want to miss this,

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Speaker 1: so secure your ticket to wellness by visiting Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash Healers. Fans of the Red podcast

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Speaker 1: have followed co host's Crystal's journey as she went back

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Speaker 1: to school in the hopes of becoming a therapist. Well,

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Speaker 1: she's graduated, y'all, so of course it was only right

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Speaker 1: to have her join us to talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about her journey and what advice she has for other

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Speaker 1: aspiring therapists. In case you're unfamiliar with Crystal, she's a

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Speaker 1: TV and podcast personality whose work has been featured in

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post, Essence, Slate, BuzzFeed, and several other media outlets.

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Speaker 1: As mentioned, she's half of the critically acclaimed comedy podcast

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Speaker 1: To Read and considers meeting Beyonce to be one of

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Speaker 1: the most thrilling events of her life. In our conversation,

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Speaker 1: we discussed the challenges of navigating grad school as a

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Speaker 1: public figure, how to take care of yourself when working

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Speaker 1: with clients, triggers old wounds, and what she hopes to

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Speaker 1: do with her degree now that she's graduated. If something

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Speaker 1: resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with

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Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag tvg in session

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Speaker 1: or join us in the sister circle To talk more

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Speaker 1: about the episode. You can join us at community dot

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Speaker 1: therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation, Chris, So,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so

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Speaker 1: so excited to chat with you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, doctor Joye and Honor.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it feels like such a full circle moment. So

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Speaker 1: congratulations on your recent graduation from your master's program. Look

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Speaker 1: at you, it's so so excited. So I know I

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Speaker 1: am not the only one who, of course, has been

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Speaker 1: a fan of yours from the read and just seeing

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Speaker 1: your trajectory and all the conversations about mental health that

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Speaker 1: you've had to see you come all the way around

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Speaker 1: to now being a therapist yourself. So I just would

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Speaker 1: love to hear how did you make the decision to

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Speaker 1: start a master's program? Is it in mental health counseling? Yes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So was it one particular letter like a reader like,

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Speaker 1: what started this trajectory?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say it was actually we were doing

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Speaker 2: a live show. It had to be five years ago

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Speaker 2: at this point. But one of the audience questions was

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Speaker 2: about going back to school, and I was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: of course, not not going back to school. And then

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Speaker 2: I thought about it and I was like, actually I

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Speaker 2: might go back to school. And I always said that

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't unless there was something I was really passionate

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Speaker 2: about or something I really wanted.

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Speaker 3: To learn or do.

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Speaker 2: But this just came to me immediately because of course,

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Speaker 2: or is finding my therapist through therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 2: really changed my life and I just wanted to know

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Speaker 2: how she was able to do it. It's not like

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Speaker 2: talking to friends, it's not like prayer, Like this is

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Speaker 2: something different, and how did you do that to me? Like?

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Speaker 2: How did you teach me to change the way I

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Speaker 2: think about myself? So yes, decided to go for it,

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Speaker 2: and that's how we got here. But shout out to

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Speaker 2: whoever that was who asked me about going to school,

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Speaker 2: because immediately I was like, ugh, but it planted the

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Speaker 2: seed and so now here I am with a degree.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that is so incredible. And I know you and

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Speaker 1: Kifierry have talked so much about starting the podcast, and

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Speaker 1: you know it kind of just being two friends chatting,

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Speaker 1: but it really did turn into this thing that I

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Speaker 1: think made mental health more palatable for people to talk

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Speaker 1: about and like for people to be more honest. So

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Speaker 1: at what point or did this ever happen? Did the

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Speaker 1: two of you say like, Okay, we're gonna be open

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Speaker 1: and sharing our own mental health journey used to kind

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Speaker 1: of open the doors for other people? Did that ever happen?

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Speaker 2: No, it wasn't like some conscious decision of let's talk

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Speaker 2: about it now. Kid Fury has been really open throughout

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Speaker 2: the years, and more so over the past couple of

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Speaker 2: years about his personal mental health struggles. And I was

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Speaker 2: one of those people who was like, I'm good, I

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Speaker 2: don't have no problems. Yeah, until I had a relationship

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Speaker 2: that ended very poorly that sent me to therapy and

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Speaker 2: that started my own awakening. That was maybe seven years

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Speaker 2: ago now. So when I started going to therapy, I

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Speaker 2: started talking bit by bit as I was ready to

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Speaker 2: talk about what I was learning on the show. But

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Speaker 2: it's never been like, Okay, we're a mental health podcast.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: We just are open about the ways in which we struggle.

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Speaker 2: And I think maybe that's what has resonated with so

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Speaker 2: many people, because a lot of people don't. They act

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Speaker 2: like they have nothing going on and there's no stress,

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Speaker 2: no depression, anxiety, any kind of mental illness, and we're like, no,

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Speaker 2: we are really struggling sometimes, where we still get up

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Speaker 2: and come to work like everybody else as much as

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Speaker 2: we possibly can, and try to be real with people

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Speaker 2: about what we're going through because we're not machines, and

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Speaker 2: it can sometimes feel like people expect us to just

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Speaker 2: be pop culture machines, just press a button and get

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Speaker 2: some hot takes out of us, but it doesn't work

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Speaker 2: like that. We're people and we're affected by our mental

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Speaker 2: health like everyone else.

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Speaker 1: M h Yeah, I mean just so many compliments, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've told you some of this, but

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Speaker 1: I just feel like y'all have done such a beautiful

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Speaker 1: job modeling like humanity, right like on those weeks where

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Speaker 1: y'all feel like y'all just don't have it or we

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Speaker 1: need a mental health break, like we're just gonna be

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Speaker 1: gone for a while and we'll see y'all when we

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Speaker 1: catch up. I feel like y'all have done a really,

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Speaker 1: really beautiful job of just letting people know like it's

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Speaker 1: okay to not be okay and to check out, to

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself when you need to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like practicing what you preach. It's

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Speaker 2: one of those things that's really easy to say, but

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Speaker 2: when it comes to you and your life, you're like, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: not me, though I'm not taking a break from my

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Speaker 2: mental health.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, but it's like, no, girl, yes, you you.

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Speaker 2: Too, Like you deserve that same consideration that you're so

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Speaker 2: ready and willing to give to others. So yeah, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: So now on the other side of graduation. Tell me,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like all students have this, But what

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Speaker 2: do you wish you would have known about grad school

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Speaker 2: that you didn't know before you started? Just how intense

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Speaker 2: the practicum and internship was going to be, either that

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Speaker 2: or family systems. That class about family systems and therapy

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Speaker 2: for families, that was an extremely triggering class, and I

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Speaker 2: think the whole program really can be is kind of

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Speaker 2: like opening yourself up to revisiting your own past every

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Speaker 2: week in class. But just how attached I would grow

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Speaker 2: to my clients, and how hard it would be to

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Speaker 2: terminate with them, and how much I would learn about

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Speaker 2: myself while being a therapist, and how it can also

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Speaker 2: help with my own healing, although that's obviously not the goal.

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Speaker 2: Just relating to other people, showing them that same empathy,

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Speaker 2: realizing just how common some of our experiences are, how

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Speaker 2: much people really are not that different. I've seen clients

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Speaker 2: lots of different races, gender, sexualities, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: the stories are almost universal. So there was a lot

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Speaker 2: about the experience that I really I don't even think

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Speaker 2: anybody could have If somebody had warned me, I don't

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Speaker 2: think it would have been enough. It's one of those

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Speaker 2: things you have to go through to really know what

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Speaker 2: it's like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that is a very common experience

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Speaker 1: for people who like studying psychology and mental health, like

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Speaker 1: going through the DSM and diagnosing yourself with all these

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Speaker 1: things and it's like, oh, I definitely got this right.

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Speaker 2: Within arms reach. Yes, that I think. So, we only

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Speaker 2: had one class about diagnosis because it's not something that

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Speaker 2: at the master's level you are really focused on. But

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Speaker 2: there's definitely when you're going through all these disorders, you're like, now,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, another one, Like come on, man, I

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Speaker 2: already feel like I'm all throughout this book.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that's definitely a big part of it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point around like the family systems class,

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Speaker 1: I think that is why grad program but to have

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Speaker 1: such a focus on taking care of yourself as a

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Speaker 1: therapist because all of the stuff that you are then

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Speaker 1: holding for clients and learning about reawakens all of your

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Speaker 1: own stuff. Can you talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: you had to take extra care of yourself throughout the

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Speaker 1: training program kind of learning about all of these things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was really really grateful for the amount of

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Speaker 2: support that I received as a grad student. And I

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Speaker 2: felt like, even in the moment, I could appreciate just

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Speaker 2: how much students need this kind of support because you

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Speaker 2: really don't know what you're getting into as a therapist. Thankfully,

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Speaker 2: for me, I had already been a client for several years,

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Speaker 2: so I had an idea of how it worked. But

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Speaker 2: some of my classmates had never been clients either, so

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Speaker 2: I think for them it was an even bigger learning curve.

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Speaker 2: But you take in other people's problems every day, and

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing horrible things, like some of the most horrific,

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Speaker 2: terrible things have happened to my clients, and so you

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Speaker 2: can't just sit there and hear back to back trauma, trauma,

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Speaker 2: trauma and not do something with it. So I was

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Speaker 2: very grateful to my supervisor at the clinic. He had

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Speaker 2: like a twenty four to seven policy, hit me up

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Speaker 2: anytime anything comes up, so I could always go to him.

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Speaker 2: To the other therapists and interns at the clinic, and

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Speaker 2: also within the program, all the instructors, it just was

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Speaker 2: this constant reminding us that in order to be the

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Speaker 2: most effective counsel you can, you have to take care

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Speaker 2: of yourself. You can't just take on other people's issues

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Speaker 2: and listen to this sort of thing all the time

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Speaker 2: and not do something with it. So one thing I

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Speaker 2: got into the habit of that I still do now

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Speaker 2: is after a day of seeing clients, just going on

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Speaker 2: a very long walk and just walking it out and

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Speaker 2: doing like these butterfly presses, this sort of thing to

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Speaker 2: soothe myself and like some sort of I don't know,

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Speaker 2: somatic stuff, just whatever I could to get that out because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, some of the things my clients told me,

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Speaker 2: it's just like this is horrific. I just have so

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Speaker 2: much empathy for therapist. I knew it was a big job,

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Speaker 2: but like, I only did it for eighteen months, and

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Speaker 2: towards the end of my program, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm burns out, like I need a break, and I've

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Speaker 2: only been an intern for a year and a half. Truly,

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Speaker 2: my hats off to therapists, because if I had to

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Speaker 2: implement all these self care measures, drinking less and exercising more,

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Journaling is another habit that I

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Speaker 2: got more consistent with and then just talking about it.

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Speaker 2: It was the sort of thing where you can't just

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Speaker 2: keep that to yourself, Go tell your supervisor go talk

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Speaker 2: to the other therapists you work with, talk to your professors,

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Speaker 2: talk to your classmates, get it out. So yeah, that

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Speaker 2: was a huge part of the program. They emphasized that

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Speaker 2: to us over and over again.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of misconceptions about mental health do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you had that were then cleared up by

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Speaker 1: your studies.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think probably the biggest one maybe not a misconception,

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Speaker 2: but I think I just did not really have an

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Speaker 2: understanding of how common all of this is. Like I

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Speaker 2: used to think that I was just this anomaly and

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Speaker 2: I was the most messed up person in the world,

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Speaker 2: and nobody had ever been as emotionally distraught as I have.

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Speaker 2: And then I get to school and I'm like, oh, girl,

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Speaker 2: you are a case study. You are literally textbook. There

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Speaker 2: is nothing exceptional about this at all. You are a DSM,

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Speaker 2: like you're right there. So there was that, And then

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Speaker 2: I guess with some of the other disorders, like personality disorders,

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Speaker 2: mental illnesses, that sort of thing. I think that's one

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Speaker 2: thing that the media gets wrong a lot, is depictions

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Speaker 2: of bipolar borderline what is mania? And it's something that

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Speaker 2: social media is not necessarily helping with because there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of mental health influencers out there who are just

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Speaker 2: saying whatever, and I had to This is veering off

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Speaker 2: topic a little, but I can't tell you how many

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Speaker 2: times I had clients come to session and say I

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Speaker 2: was watching this TikTok and I found out that people

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Speaker 2: pleasing means I'm actually a manipulator and I'm abusive, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, wait.

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Speaker 3: Wait, wait wait, TikTokers can really be a problem in

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I think having a greater understanding of what

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Speaker 2: some of the more taboo, less accepted, less understood mental illnesses,

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Speaker 2: what that constitutes of, and the effect that that has

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Speaker 2: on the client, and trying to fight the huge amounts

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Speaker 2: of misinformation that are available on the internet.

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Speaker 1: So this is very interesting because I feel like you're

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Speaker 1: probably the newest therapist that we've had on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm really curious to hear. Okay, what are

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Speaker 1: the graduate programs or maybe your programs just specifically, since

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Speaker 1: you probably can only talk about that one. What kinds

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Speaker 1: of things are they teaching you about clients coming in

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Speaker 1: with social media stuff? Are like the impact of social

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Speaker 1: media on the clinical relationship? What kinds of conversations are

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Speaker 1: training programs having about that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't part of the curriculum. I think it was

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Speaker 2: just something that came up because we're all on social,

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Speaker 2: our clients are all on social, and I don't know

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Speaker 2: that I got specific guidance about talking to clients about

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Speaker 2: social media. I just developed my own approach of I'm

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Speaker 2: very much person centered empathy first, trying to understand where

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Speaker 2: you're coming from, but also a gentle correction, a gentle redirecting.

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Speaker 2: And for me it was I'm obviously not going to

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Speaker 2: tell my clients take TikTok off your phone, but I

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Speaker 2: would say, if you're looking at mental health content on TikTok,

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Speaker 2: click through to that person's profile. Do they call themselves

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Speaker 2: a therapist? That's a very specific word that not everybody

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Speaker 2: can use. Do they list their degree, do they tell

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Speaker 2: you whether they're licensed? Or is this just somebody putting

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Speaker 2: out whatever they think will earn them a few dollars

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Speaker 2: through ad revenue. So that was the way that I approached,

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Speaker 2: especially with my clients and their teens and twenties, really

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Speaker 2: heavy emphasis on social media. But I can't say that

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Speaker 2: the program really prepared us for that. It was just

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Speaker 2: a lot of get ready because TikTok is out there,

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Speaker 2: and your clients are going to come to you with

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Speaker 2: something they've seen on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is not a new conversation. Lots of

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Speaker 1: therapists are having that same conversation about, you know, like

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Speaker 1: how do you talk with clients about what they see

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Speaker 1: on social media and whether there's some truth to it,

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Speaker 1: and like let's talk more about what you saw kind

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Speaker 1: of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I had one client in particular who was just really

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Speaker 2: big on TikTok, and so I would tell her anytime

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Speaker 2: you see something that has you thinking these things or

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Speaker 2: questioning something about yourself, bring that to session, you know,

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Speaker 2: or text me the link to the TikTok if you

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Speaker 2: want to, and I can tell you what I think

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Speaker 2: they got right and what I think they got wrong,

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Speaker 2: or how this is very general advice and so it

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Speaker 2: doesn't apply to you. That's another thing about social media,

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Speaker 2: which I think is great that there are so many

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Speaker 2: therapists out there talking about these things. But everybody puts

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Speaker 2: that disclaimer of this is not a substitute for your

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Speaker 2: own relationship with a mental health professional, because the information

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Speaker 2: on social media has to be generalized it has to

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Speaker 2: be this is what such and such can look like

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Speaker 2: in order for it to mean anything, like, we can't

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Speaker 2: talk about you in particular you this one user, because

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Speaker 2: we don't know you. And so just because you see

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Speaker 2: yourself in this graphic on Instagram does not necessarily mean

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Speaker 2: that you have this disorder either. So it really is

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Speaker 2: important to go talk to somebody. But it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like raising awareness, getting people to see that something could

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Speaker 2: be wrong in the first place, because if you don't

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Speaker 2: have that awareness, there's nowhere to go from there.

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Speaker 1: So so you've shared a little bit about this on

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Speaker 1: the read, but I'm really curious to know more about

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Speaker 1: how you navigated the program as a public figure, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like when we hear like public figures like

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Speaker 1: going back to school, like it's usually something like law

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Speaker 1: school or advertising or journalistic, it feels like this is

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Speaker 1: a very different kind of program to navigate with somebody

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Speaker 1: who is a public figure. I mean, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've heard you say like your classmates didn't necessarily know

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Speaker 1: who you were, So talk to me about like how

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Speaker 1: you navigated that, and like what kinds of boundaries you

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Speaker 1: needed to set to protect yourself.

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Speaker 2: Ah, well, I was very nervous. I'll say this. I

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Speaker 2: was so scared that I would be recognized. And actually

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Speaker 2: every semester I did get recognized by one person in

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Speaker 2: each class, but they wouldn't say anything until like maybe

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Speaker 2: the middle of the semester or at the very end.

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Speaker 2: One classmate wore the Reads T shirt like wore our

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Speaker 2: merch and I was like, Okay, you ain't have to

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Speaker 2: do that, you ain't have to do that. But the

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Speaker 2: people who did recognize me were very low key about it,

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Speaker 2: very cool. Even at graduation, a girl came up to

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Speaker 2: me and was like, congrats, and I was like, I

356
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Speaker 2: just need you to not tell nobody. Just don't tell

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Speaker 2: nobody until the ceremony is over, because I really wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this program anonymously. I did not want Crystal

359
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 2: or the Read This entertainment industry side of it to

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Speaker 2: be a part of it, because I took this so seriously,

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Speaker 2: like I know what it means to have a really

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Speaker 2: great therapist, and I wanted to try to be that

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Speaker 2: for other people and learn as much as I possibly could.

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Speaker 2: And I just did not want my job to infiltrate

365
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Speaker 2: any aspect of it at all. So I was very deliberate.

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Speaker 2: I did have a couple of close calls with Sometimes

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Speaker 2: clients would be like, oh, I was just watching Insecure

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Speaker 2: and I saw that they have a recap podcast, and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Like, I wouldn't listen to that.

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Speaker 2: Or they would like name drop people that I've worked

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Speaker 2: with and I'm like, oh, wow, that's so interesting. And

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Speaker 2: one time my supervisor even said that he was thinking

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Speaker 2: of starting a podcast, and I was like, well, I

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Speaker 2: don't know much about that, but.

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Speaker 3: Good lush, it sounds great.

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Speaker 2: Just lying, but it was a necessary lie. Yes, I couldn't.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't. I can't believe that.

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Speaker 1: I mean because the Read is such a huge podcast,

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Speaker 1: Like it feels like there needed to almost be something

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Speaker 1: in place to kind of screen your clients.

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Speaker 3: So it just happens.

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Speaker 1: Ace worked out that none of your clients had any

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Speaker 1: knowledge of who you were or what you did for work.

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Speaker 2: Yes, wow, And I don't know how I got that

385
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Speaker 2: fortunate because most of my clients were black women, and

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Speaker 2: so I was quite nervous. I was quite nervous. But no,

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Speaker 2: none of them recognized me. None of my coworkers recognized me.

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Speaker 2: Just a small handful of classmates, maybe four or five classmates,

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Speaker 2: and that was it, so I know I was knocking

390
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Speaker 2: on wood the whole time. I think what saved me

391
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Speaker 2: is that the read is not a video podcast, so

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Speaker 2: even as long as we've been around, our faces don't

393
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Speaker 2: get passed around social media that much, so maybe people

394
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Speaker 2: don't really know what we look like. I think that

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Speaker 2: is my saving grace. But I knew if that one

396
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Speaker 2: person listened to that Insecure, I said, oh no, you

397
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Speaker 2: can't do that.

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Speaker 3: Thankfully, I was just like, oh, yeah, Insecure, that's a

399
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Speaker 3: great show.

400
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Speaker 2: Tell me about the episode that you were about, you know,

401
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 2: trying to readirect But thankfully, either she never listened, or

402
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: she's listened after.

403
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Speaker 3: We've terminated, so it's not my business no more.

404
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Speaker 1: That is incredible. I just knew that they had put

405
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Speaker 1: some stuff in place for you so that you like,

406
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Speaker 1: didn't have clients who knew you or any of that,

407
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Speaker 1: so they just looked out that way. No, I'm very

408
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: grateful for New York City being as huge as it

409
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: is and nine million people, everybody's not gonna know who.

410
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Speaker 3: Chrystal is, Thankfully.

411
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Speaker 2: Thankfully, because I was quite nervous about that, I really

412
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Speaker 2: was so talk.

413
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Speaker 1: To me about any difficulty you had besides keeping your

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Speaker 1: fingers crossed that nobody would recognize you were there. Anything

415
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: you had trouble navigating continuing to host the read and

416
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Speaker 1: being in grad school at the same time.

417
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Speaker 3: Not really.

418
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Speaker 2: Maybe the biggest issue would sometimes just be I just

419
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Speaker 2: got out of a session with a client telling me

420
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Speaker 2: about their trauma, and then twenty minutes later I have

421
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Speaker 2: to go record the show, So it's like I don't

422
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 2: have a lot of time to try to shake that

423
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Speaker 2: off and get into the mode of joking around and

424
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: having fun. But other than that, No, the show didn't

425
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 2: really conflict with school very much or vice versa. Very

426
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: grateful that we were able to change the days we

427
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: record or whatever based off my class schedule. So yes,

428
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Speaker 2: I took the program extremely seriously. And so even when

429
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: I would make references to school on the show or

430
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Speaker 2: talk in very general terms about a client, it was

431
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Speaker 2: always this like, let me be very careful to not

432
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Speaker 2: break confidentiality, let me be very careful about privacy. And

433
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 2: that was not a joke from me at all, And

434
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Speaker 2: so yes, took all that extremely seriously.

435
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you even ever mentioned the name

436
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: of the school you were attending all the specific program.

437
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: No, I did not. No, I did not.

438
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: I did that on purpose. People asked all the time,

439
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: and I would be like to do pretend I don't

440
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: see that. I'm not telling y'all where I go, and

441
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: I'm not telling y'all because I do not want y'all

442
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: to find me. I want to do this as my

443
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: own self, Doctor Joe.

444
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 3: You just don't know. I used to be so nervous.

445
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

446
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful that it's all official now, the degree

447
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: is conferred, it's done. I don't think I'll risk anything

448
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: like that again.

449
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, more.

450
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: From our conversation after the break, But first, a quick

451
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: snippet of what's coming next week on TVG.

452
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 4: In personal relationships, I do notice this dynamic online as well, though,

453
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 4: that when therapists show up and have problems with certain

454
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 4: things or feel annoyed by stuff, there's a sense that like,

455
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: you shouldn't have quote unquote the negative feelings you're a therapist,

456
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: or you shouldn't struggle with things because you're a therapist.

457
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 4: And I literally have had people in my personal life say,

458
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 4: but you know how to get out of that, you

459
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 4: know how to not feel that. So I don't even

460
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: really understand how you could feel anxious about this or

461
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 4: how you could feel upset about this because you can

462
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 4: work yourself out of it. It feels really dehumanizing when

463
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 4: people do that, and they quite literally don't understand that

464
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 4: we cannot work on ourselves in that way.

465
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: Why do friendship breakups sometimes hurt more than romantic ones?

466
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: How do I make friends in a new city? Is

467
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: it true that women can't actually be good friends to

468
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: one another. I'm exploring all of these questions and so

469
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: much more in my book, Sisterhood Heels, now available in

470
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: paperback at your local independent bookstore or at sisterhood Heels

471
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: dot Com for you and your girls, and let's talk

472
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: about it. So you in part of your support circle.

473
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: Friend and doctor Kia and Jaye joined me on the

474
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: Sisterhood Heels booked to her last summer, which I was

475
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: so grateful for. But can you talk to me about

476
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: your support system and how that was instrumental in you

477
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: kind of completing grads?

478
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: Yes, I really do not know where I would be

479
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: without my friends. They are such a huge support for me,

480
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 2: always encouraging me, because there were lots of times where

481
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: I was like I think I would like to drop out.

482
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: What am I even doing? I'm not gonna take this

483
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: degree and then go be a therapist. I'm not gonna

484
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 2: quit the read So why am I doing this? So

485
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm stressing myself out? And they were just always especially

486
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: Kia because Kia has like eight degrees, So Kia was

487
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: always just like, I know you can do this. I

488
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: know it's hard, but you are doing such an incredible job.

489
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: I'm really so proud of you. And yes, the three of

490
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: them and really all of my friends just made me

491
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: feel so loved, supported, cared for a while I was

492
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: going through this degree. And yeah, I mean literally more

493
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 2: of a support than my family. So I really do

494
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: not know where I would be without those people.

495
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: So what was some of the moments that made you

496
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: feel like I want to drop out? Is anything in

497
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: particular coming to mind? I feel like most grad students

498
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: have that experience, right, But is there anything more than

499
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: others that made you feel like I don't know if

500
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: I want to do this well?

501
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: And this is my fault. I didn't take breaks. I

502
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: started my practicum in January of one year, and I

503
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: worked all the through that semester, and then I worked

504
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: all that summer, no credits, no money, just kept working

505
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: because I thought it would be best for my clients,

506
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: and then went right into internship that fall. Stayed at

507
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 2: the same clinics, so I kept my same clients, didn't

508
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: take a winter break that month, were supposed to get

509
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: off five six weeks, didn't do that either, and then

510
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: worked all again. So it was like I didn't take

511
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: the breaks that a grad student is supposed to take.

512
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: And I think around that one year mark, I was like, Okay,

513
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: I am getting kind of exhausted. It was really this

514
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: last semester where I was like, y'all, I don't know

515
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: what it is about being able to see the finish line,

516
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: but I don't want to cross it. Like I could

517
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: just stop right here right now, and I would be

518
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: okay with that. Like I think I'm just worn out.

519
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: I'm burned out. I'm tired of school and the pressure.

520
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 2: This is a job that I take much more seriously

521
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: because being a therapist is a position of power and

522
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: it was just so important to me that I honor

523
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: the therapeutic relationship, that I show up as the best

524
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 2: possible therapist I could be, even as an intern. So

525
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: I'm taking it very seriously. But I'm also not taking

526
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: any breaks, and I'm putting a lot of pressure showing

527
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 2: myself to be my best. And so yeah, I was.

528
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: I was worn out. I was quite worn out. But

529
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: I think it's just regular senioritists. It's a lot of

530
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: responsibility in being a therapist, and I have a pretty

531
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 2: responsibility light life. I wanted these plants every couple weeks

532
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: and that's about it. So having this legal, moral, ethical

533
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: obligation to these people was a huge shift for me,

534
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: and I was ready to go back to my responsibility

535
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: light life. Were there any conversations with supervisors about like, hey,

536
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 2: we think you need a break, like you have not

537
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: taken any breaks, like, was there any encouragement from supervisor? No, no,

538
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 2: no no. They said, if you feel like it, go

539
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: right ahead. If you feel up for it, go right ahead.

540
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 2: And so I did take two weeks towards the end

541
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: of the year for you know, Christmas and New Year's.

542
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: I did that just this past year.

543
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: But that was it.

544
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: Otherwise I was working all the way through and maybe

545
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: somebody should have said, hey, don't see clients. Maybe somebody

546
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: should have put their foot down about that, but they agreed,

547
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: and the school kind of was the same way with

548
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: it's up to you if you want to work throughout

549
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: the summer. If I were you, I wouldn't, but that's

550
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: your decision to make. And so I thought it was

551
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: best for my clients that we not spend a whole

552
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: summer apart. But I wasn't really thinking about what was

553
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: best for me. Not that it was the end of

554
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: the world or anything, but you need a break. And

555
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: one of the things I noticed with my own therapist

556
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: before twenty twenty, she like, never took a break. We

557
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: had our little week or so at the end of

558
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: the year, and that was it once the pandemic hit.

559
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: I love it.

560
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: This lady is like okay, bye. She was like, yeah,

561
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: I'm going on vacation, see you in two weeks. I'm like, copy,

562
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: I got it. I love that she started modeling, like

563
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: oh yeah, actually, I need a break from this. This

564
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: is a lot, This is a lot of stress. So

565
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: I really don't know how therapists did in it, because

566
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty I was just a student and not

567
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: even I don't think I had even started the program

568
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: yet then, So I really don't know how therapists held

569
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: it down. When the pandemic first hit because the stress

570
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: had to be through the roof as individuals and also

571
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: for your clients. And so starting in twenty twenty, she

572
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: was like, okay, now you say that, I'm thinking about

573
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: my own therapist. She also started traveling much more, like

574
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: long stints away and I mean, and we had conversations

575
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: about it, like her needing to kind of dig deeper,

576
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: and like the things that you were usually doing to

577
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: kind of manage weren't available to you anymore, and so

578
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: people had to kind of re route their whole kind

579
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: of coping strategies.

580
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: Was meant being maybe more extreme in figuring.

581
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: Out how to take care of yourself so you could

582
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: take care of all of the problems. We were coming

583
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: to them right right, right.

584
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: So I've never talked to her about that. It's very

585
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: much like that is my therapist, and I don't ask

586
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: her about her personal life or what she's doing. But

587
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: it was definitely something I noticed, like you never took

588
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: breaks before. And now I won't say all the time,

589
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: but maybe once a quarter or once every six months

590
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: she'll be like, yeah, I'm taking a break, and like

591
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: that is very reasonable, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

592
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I love it.

593
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: So you mentioned on the show before about like your

594
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: perfectionism and that showing up in other places, and of course,

595
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean even in hearing you talking about client care

596
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: now I can hear some of the like perfectionistic kinds

597
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: of things. Can you talk a little bit about how

598
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: you navigated that, maybe with a supervisor or in your

599
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: own therapy, to think about like how that then impacted

600
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: you clinically.

601
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think most of that processing happened in my

602
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: own therapy because I've noticed that supervisors tend to love perfectionists.

603
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: I've never had a supervisor to be like, you should

604
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: chill out and not be so great. I've never had

605
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: anybody say that, but you know, realizing the harm in

606
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: my perfectionistic ways. It's definitely something that I uncovered while

607
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: working with my own therapist, and I remember what shifted

608
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: for me was her providing this understanding that being a

609
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: perfectionist is not necessarily like, oh, I do everything perfectly,

610
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: like I refuse to have anything not be perfect. It's

611
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: more like realistic things are not the goal. The goal

612
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: is perfection, and you don't have a realistic understanding of

613
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: what things should be or how things should look. It's

614
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: more like if I get a ninety eight on a test,

615
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: I'm stressing out over the two points I missed, instead

616
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: of celebrating the ninety eight that I didn't miss. So

617
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: something about that whole conversation with her it made me

618
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 2: understand that my standards weren't realistic, and that was what

619
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: was causing all the distress for me, because there's no

620
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: reason for a person to be stressed out over a

621
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: ninety eight on an exam. But that was the kind

622
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: of person that I was. So her psycho education helped

623
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: a lot, and that was one thing I really learned

624
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: about school and loved so much about it, was going

625
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: to class and being like, that's what you did. I

626
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: see what you did, Like, oh, I see your ways?

627
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

628
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: How did that impact your relationship with your therapist after

629
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: you had more of those classes and you could figure

630
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: out what she was doing.

631
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if she noticed the difference in me,

632
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: but I remember at first coming to session almost as

633
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: if it was like a mock session, almost as if

634
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: I'm trying to give what I think is the right response,

635
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: and then she's gonna say this, and then I'm gonna

636
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: try to respond in a therapy type of way, and

637
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: then I let that go very quickly like no, no, no,

638
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: still the client and still just want to be like,

639
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: why am I taking on the role of the therapist.

640
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: Why am I doing that? You're not the therapist here,

641
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure trying to respond in the therapeutic, mindful,

642
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: evidence based way. I'm just the client and I can

643
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: be messy and complicated and not always make sense, and

644
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: this is my space to do that. So I am

645
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: curious if she noticed any changes in me as a

646
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 2: client after I started the program, But like I said,

647
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: I don't talk to her about like her life or

648
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 2: anything to do with that at all, so I'll probably

649
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: never know.

650
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: So you've been very clear that your intention was not

651
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: necessarily to get this degree to practice, which I find fascinating,

652
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: and so I want to hear more about that and

653
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: how you do plan to then use degree. Is it

654
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: just something that you're going to have just for knowledge sake?

655
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: Tell me more about that.

656
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: Well, that was the point I literally was like, how

657
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: did you do this? I want to know how you

658
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 2: did this? And so now I know, now I understand

659
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: how she did it. What I'm going to do with

660
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: the degree is really the million dollar question. The obvious, Oh,

661
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: start a mental health podcast is like right there. But

662
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: also I don't really know that that's needed from me.

663
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: I feel like there are lots of great voices in

664
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: that space already, especially yours, and so I'm like, I

665
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: don't really know if that's what I feel called to do.

666
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: But being a therapist is very hard work, and being

667
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: an entertainment podcaster is not anywhere near as hard, Like,

668
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: not anywhere near as hard. Being a therapist is a

669
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 2: lot of labor, and like I said, a lot of responsibility.

670
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: Even as an intern, I felt the weight of the

671
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: responsibility as a therapist. So I think very quickly I realized, like,

672
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: this is great. I'm glad I have this education. I

673
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: love that I have a master's degree now to fall

674
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 2: on if.

675
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: I need one.

676
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: But I would much rather, you know, make fun of Drake.

677
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: I would much rather, you know, make fun of Drake

678
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: and then have listener letters come in where people us

679
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: questions and I kept saying, I want to graduate, go

680
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: back to being a hoorad. I don't think I can

681
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: really ever fully go back to the way I used

682
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: to be. I think the education is always in the

683
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: back of my mind informing my thoughts, behaviors, actions, and

684
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: things I say. So I'm fine with using it in

685
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: that way and maybe finding other avenues. I'm still trying

686
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: to figure out exactly what I'm gonna do with the degree,

687
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: but I'm sure it will be integrated into my work somehow.

688
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: But leaving entertainment to go be a therapist full time,

689
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 2: I don't, especially because then it really would become an

690
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 2: issue of clients recognizing me. That would really and I

691
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: have had to tell so many listeners I am not

692
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: going to be your therapist. There is no sign up sheet,

693
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: there is no no, no, no, no no. You all

694
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: know way too much about me. You're not supposed to

695
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: know this much about your therapist at all. You know

696
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 2: too much about me, my life, my family, my opinions.

697
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: None of that is your business.

698
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: So I talk a little bit more about that because

699
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: I think earlier you made the point about like talking

700
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: to your therapist is not like talking to your friend,

701
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: not like talking to your past or like it's very different.

702
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: But I do think because so many people love you

703
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: and they hear your thoughts like every week, it's like, oh,

704
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: I really want her to be my therapist. Can you

705
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: talk about why it would be a bad idea for

706
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: you to just have a sign up sheet for people

707
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: to then become your client?

708
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh man, Well, first of all, because I think some

709
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: of y'all would show up just to be like, oh

710
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: my god, Crystal, I love you so much.

711
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's not what we're here for.

712
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: But also, I think the thing that gave me so

713
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: much pause and still does is the idea that a

714
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: client will modify what they say or not be fully

715
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: honest or omit certain things because they know how I

716
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: feel about like my dad, for example, or a strained

717
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: relationship with my mother, or you know, any number of

718
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: things that I've talked about been open about on the show.

719
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: I didn't and still don't want client to know these

720
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: things about me and be like, Okay, well maybe I

721
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: shouldn't talk about how great my dad is, or maybe

722
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 2: if I talk about X y Z about my mom

723
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: that'll upset her. Things like that, you're not supposed to

724
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: be thinking about my feelings. This time is really about you.

725
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: And so the idea that a client would come to

726
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: therapy and not be fully honest about what was going

727
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: on because they know or they think they know how

728
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: I might feel or how I might react. It's like,

729
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: you're just not supposed to know these things about me.

730
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 2: What if I talked really bad about Drake and Drake

731
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: is your cousin, Like you know, it could be anything,

732
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was especially the idea that people would

733
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: adjust what they bring to therapy based off how they

734
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: think I would respond to them, Like, no, I do

735
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 2: not want you to do that. And also, you're getting

736
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: Crystal that you see for two hours or less on

737
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: a podcast every week. But that is not the entirety

738
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: of me. And even the things you know about me

739
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: are only things I've told you.

740
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: But still it's too much.

741
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 2: It's been eleven years now of content of me being

742
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: open about my life and yeah, unfortunately y'all just know

743
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: too much about me.

744
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: For me to be a therapist.

745
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, Yeah, and I

746
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: really appreciate you sharing that because I think that that

747
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: is one of the misconceptions and that people don't really

748
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: understand the power balance, imbalance and the dynamics that happen.

749
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: There's so much we are holding in any given session

750
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: that you knowing so much about your therapist, even if

751
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: it's not conscious. You are thinking through like, oh, did

752
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: I hear Crystal say something about that? Maybe I need

753
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: to modify what I'm saying or I can't say this

754
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: because what if it ends up as a listener letter?

755
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: Like there are all these things that you may not

756
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: even be conscious of that then impact the therapeutic relationship. Yeah,

757
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: from the beginning, I knew that a listener could not

758
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: be a client, and so I was just constantly praying,

759
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: just please do not let a listener show up. And

760
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: I thank God because it worked out for me in

761
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: that way. But I knew from the beginning that would

762
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: be a bad idea. I don't need you going on

763
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: TikTok being like a Christly is my therapist. And this

764
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: is what she said. But I wonder if you are

765
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: aware because I have been able to kind of track

766
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: the way you respond in listener letters now versus the

767
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: first year of the ready Are you conscious of how

768
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: that has impacted, like your clinical training has impacted the

769
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: way you listened or respond to letters.

770
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think you can really tell the difference. Even

771
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: starting from when I started therapy, the way I started

772
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: responding to people shifted, but definitely once I got into

773
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: the program, it really expanded my empathy and my understanding

774
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: that really we're all dealing with something and none of

775
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: us are this blank slate where nothing bad ever happened

776
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 2: to us and there was never any trauma or anything

777
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: like that. People are coming at life from their own

778
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: experiences and operating out of their own understanding, and so

779
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: there's a lot more patience now with the letters. I

780
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: think there's actually even a little less of the breakup

781
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: with him. We used to automatically go to break up

782
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: with him, and there's a little more understanding now, a

783
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: little more Well, maybe have this conversation or consider this

784
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: other thing, but don't take breaking up with him off

785
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: the table.

786
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: So it's always always, it's.

787
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: Always an option, like you might be trying a little

788
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: too hard to make this work.

789
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

790
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: I love that.

791
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: So what advice would you give to other people who

792
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 2: are maybe considering going back to school or considering starting

793
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: a program to become a therapist. I think my number

794
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: one piece of advice would be to go to therapy first.

795
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: I can't believe it's not a requirement to go to

796
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: therapy in order to get this degree, but it's not

797
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 2: every now and then classmates would say something or ask

798
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: a question, and I would just think if you had

799
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: been a client, you would know the answer to this.

800
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: I just think you need to know what it's like

801
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: to be on the other side of this dynamic. And

802
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: also you probably have some things you need to work

803
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: through with a therapist, like you. Sometimes classmates are talking

804
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: about like, well, how do I figure out my blah

805
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: blah blah or how do I determine this? And it's like, Oh,

806
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: you need to go talk to your own therapists, what

807
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: do you mean. I think that's probably the number one

808
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: thing you need is to know what it's like to

809
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: be a client before you decide to go be a therapist.

810
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: And also, you know, consider just being a client, like

811
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: it's cheaper and a lot less work. But one thing

812
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 2: I was always super mindful of was counter transference in

813
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 2: any possible counter transference happening with me. Is especially because

814
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: I had one client in particular who it was like

815
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: I was staring at my twenty five year old self,

816
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: and so I had to be so mindful constantly with

817
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: this person that I was not responding to her as

818
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: if she were me, that I was not talking to

819
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: her or trying to guide her as if it were

820
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,959
Speaker 2: the things I needed to hear, but like being very

821
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: clear and remaining very mindful, like this is a separate person,

822
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: her own life, her own circumstances, And I think that's

823
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: another thing that maybe you're not prepared for or you

824
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: don't think about before you start the program. It's like, oh,

825
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: what if these people say something that triggers me or

826
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: reminds me of my own upbringing, Like yeah, just really

827
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: staying mindful of occurrences like that. Not even just with

828
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: younger clients. I also had older clients of my parents generation,

829
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: and sometimes talking to them would bring up those same things,

830
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 2: like you are really reminded me of my mother right now,

831
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: or it's giving my dad right now, but you know,

832
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: remaining in a therapist's place and responding to the client

833
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 2: and not to my own trigger or whatever was brought

834
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: up in me. So be aware before you start this program. Then,

835
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: working with clients, you will almost certainly work with somebody

836
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: who brings up something deep within you, and you have

837
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: to know how to handle that, how to manage that.

838
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: It's not something you can avoid entirely, but it is

839
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: something that you can handle. You just have to be

840
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: ready for it and aware.

841
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: I've heard you say on the read that some of

842
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: your gen Z clients were kind of like your favorites,

843
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: like you really really enjoyed.

844
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 3: Working with them.

845
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: What's so special about then, What did you love most

846
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: about working with that population in particular?

847
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, they are so fun.

848
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: They're slang Like sometimes I would just, you know, give

849
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: an intervention or something like that, an interpretation or whatever,

850
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: and my client would be like, you know.

851
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 3: What, I hate that. It's just like they are fun

852
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: in that way.

853
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: It's just such a great time this sort of late teens,

854
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: early to mid twenties, it's just such a great time

855
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 2: to be in therapy. I found that they were some

856
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: of the most enthusiastic clients, Like they really wanted to

857
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: understand why they do things a certain way, or why

858
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: they're feeling things, why they feel stuck in a certain

859
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: pattern or whatever. So it's definitely the intensity the intentionality

860
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: that they brought to therapy. But then also they are

861
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: just fun. Like every gen Z client I had asked

862
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: me what my sign was, Nobody else but gen Z

863
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: would be like, you know, you're big three. I'm like,

864
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 2: I sure do girl, And what about it? They talk about,

865
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: you know, things like astrology and TikTok and they're you know,

866
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: they're fun. So I just really loved working with them

867
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: younger population really did.

868
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 3: So.

869
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you feel like you learned about

870
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: your own mental health through grad school that we have

871
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: not touched on yet.

872
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: I think, just going back to what I said earlier

873
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 2: about being an actual case study, like a literal textbook example,

874
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 2: I think maybe that is what I learned is that

875
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: I am not special damaged snowflake. This is what happens

876
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: to people who have been emotionally mistreated. This is quite

877
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 2: literally what can happen to a person.

878
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: You know.

879
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 2: I just always thought I was so messed up, But

880
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: I actually responded in a very textbook way to the

881
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: things that happened to me. I was not so messed

882
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: up and so far gone and such an anomaly for

883
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 2: what happened to me. I was right in the middle

884
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: of the norm for the people that that has happened to.

885
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: So it just gave me a lot more peace of mind,

886
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: I guess, because I had always felt so different. There's

887
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 2: been lots of times in every where I'm like, maybe

888
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: I am just too messed up, and maybe I just

889
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: cannot get to a place of being okay, being happy.

890
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: Some people are too far gone and maybe I'm one

891
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: of those people. And I think it definitely helped with like, yes,

892
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: this is hard, it is, but this is not impossible

893
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: for you.

894
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this, Crystal.

895
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 1: It has just been such a delight to follow your

896
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: journey and again just celebrate you and your graduation. Just

897
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: such a cool experience. So thank you for spending some

898
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: time with us today. Let people know if they don't already,

899
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: how can they stay connected with you to everything happening

900
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 1: with the Read, the website, as well as any social

901
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: media handles you want to share.

902
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 3: Okay, well, yes, you.

903
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: Can find me every week on the Read, available on

904
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: all podcasting platforms. We're at this is the Read across

905
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 2: social media, and you can find me on Instagram at Crystal.

906
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: That's cri ssl E beautiful. Be sure to include all

907
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: of that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Crystal,

908
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: Thank you, doctor Joy. I'm so glad Chryssel was able

909
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: to join me for this conversation to learn more about

910
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: her and the work she's doing. Be shure to visited

911
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash

912
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: Session three sixty seven, and don't forget to text this

913
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: episode to two of your girls right now and encourage

914
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: them to check it out. If you're looking for a

915
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy

916
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want

917
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in

918
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us

919
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the

920
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: Internet designed just for black women. You can join us

921
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode

922
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: was produced by Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was

923
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining

924
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this

925
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take care

926
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 3: What