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Speaker 1: Previously on Hello John Doe.

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Speaker 2: I think everybody's got an origin, and I would just

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Speaker 2: like to know you know where up again. I'm up

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Speaker 2: at all sad or disappointed how I grew up, But

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Speaker 2: I just I don't know, just it is a big

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Speaker 2: deal to me.

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Speaker 3: You want to a relationship with her at all? I mean,

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Speaker 3: would you like to have that?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I could answer that question better once I'll find

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Speaker 2: out why she gave me up, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 5: So I was in Charlotte, and that's why I met

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Speaker 5: Franklin Floyd.

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Speaker 4: But I knew hi, Miss Brandon Williams. I loved the

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Speaker 4: fact that he was going to.

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Speaker 5: Help me get my kids back and take me away

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Speaker 5: from the situation. Love him, No, he's creepy. He was

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Speaker 5: always creepy.

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Speaker 3: At twenty five years old, Sandy spent a month in

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Speaker 3: a Dallas jail. She had written a bad check trying

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Speaker 3: to get diapers. The days were long and boring, and

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Speaker 3: she wasn't allowed outside.

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Speaker 6: And scarily to a point that I didn't ever want

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Speaker 6: to do anything illegal again as long as I lived.

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Speaker 3: It was nineteen seventy five. By then, she was a

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Speaker 3: mother of four, and she was afraid of her husband,

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Speaker 3: but still when she got out of jail, she wasn't

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Speaker 3: prepared for what happened in her absence.

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Speaker 5: While I was in jail, and he picked the kids up,

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Speaker 5: and he took Allison and Amy to an orphanage and

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Speaker 5: left him at the orphanage.

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Speaker 3: Her husband, Franklin Floyd, had left town and he had

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Speaker 3: forced Suzanne, Sandy's oldest daughter, to leave with him, and.

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Speaker 4: That's when he took her. And that was the last time.

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Speaker 3: That she was seen. That's Amy Winkles, Sandy's third oldest daughter.

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Speaker 3: She was one of the girls Floyd left in an orphanage.

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Speaker 3: When Sandy realized what Floyd had done, she went first

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Speaker 3: to the Dallas police station. She told him her husband

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Speaker 3: had taken Susie. That's what she called.

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Speaker 1: Her, Susie.

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Speaker 6: And I kept screaming, she's not his child, he's not

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Speaker 6: her father, and finally they escorted me out of a

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Speaker 6: police station.

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Speaker 3: They didn't think there was anything wrong with Floyd taking

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Speaker 3: off with his six year old stepdaughter. Lost were looser

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Speaker 3: before the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act of nineteen eighty and

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Speaker 3: they buried state by state. So Sandy went Defy headquarters

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Speaker 3: in Dallas. They didn't help either. She was in such

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Speaker 3: a state, desperate, in heartsy, that she went to places

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Speaker 3: around town, at the grocery store to see if anyone

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Speaker 3: in Saint Floyd.

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Speaker 4: When I couldn't find him, I packed. This is really stupid, but.

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Speaker 5: I packed everything in a duffel bag, all of the

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Speaker 5: girls stuff in a duffel bag, and started. Because somebody

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Speaker 5: said he went to Michigan hitshriking sounds STERI well, but

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Speaker 5: back then it wasn't like that. I went to a

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Speaker 5: truck stop and a truck driver said.

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Speaker 4: What are you doing? And I told him what I

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Speaker 4: was doing and why I was doing.

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Speaker 5: And then I must have been really freaky looking, because

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Speaker 5: I don't worried about combing my hair.

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Speaker 4: I was just I was going to find her. I

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Speaker 4: had to find her.

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Speaker 5: One truck driver gave me to another truck driver, to

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Speaker 5: another truck that there was no nobody ever said anything

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Speaker 5: about sex, nobody ever said anything about money. They put

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Speaker 5: the girls in the beds in the back of the truck,

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Speaker 5: made sure everybody ate took me where I wanted to go,

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Speaker 5: said that there any king can do to help you.

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Speaker 3: But there was only so much that they or Sandy

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Speaker 3: could do. Here's Sandy's youngest Dorothy, who hadn't been born

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Speaker 3: when all this was going on. She's forty two, a

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Speaker 3: motorcycling enthusiast with three kids of her own.

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Speaker 7: You know, they didn't have the missing children's yet, they

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Speaker 7: didn't have none of that stuff. When she was talking

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Speaker 7: with the police, as she was going through the different

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Speaker 7: states and everything, they were telling her that there was

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Speaker 7: nothing that they can do because she was married to him.

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Speaker 4: Legally, he had the right to take them.

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Speaker 3: At that time, I called the FBI about it. They

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Speaker 3: couldn't comment on Susie's case in particular or what law

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Speaker 3: should have protected her, but they tell me something incredible.

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Speaker 3: They never found a missing person's report for Susy. Authorities

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Speaker 3: in North Carolina didn't take one, which is why Susy

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Speaker 3: was never in any databasis like NamUs. This was nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy five. It wasn't a crime to take your step

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Speaker 3: child away from their biological parent. It wasn't kidnapping. But

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Speaker 3: Sandy's instincts told her something was really wrong, so she

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Speaker 3: went to the Salvation Army, which has a program that

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Speaker 3: reconnects lost relatives.

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Speaker 5: I mean when I went to the Salvation Army and

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Speaker 5: told them what they said, You know, you were married

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Speaker 5: to him. There's nothing we can do to help. And

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Speaker 5: they looked at me like, you're a woman, Just get

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Speaker 5: on with the program.

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Speaker 3: And Sandy said her own flesh and blood barely registered

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Speaker 3: that their granddaughter was missing.

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Speaker 5: The Tulsa police called my mom and dad, and my

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Speaker 5: mom and dad said, oh, well, let her do what

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Speaker 5: she wants to do, and that was the end of that.

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Speaker 3: Her parents wouldn't come to Oklahoma and help her search.

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Speaker 3: Sandy looked everwhere she could think of, but never saw

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Speaker 3: her missing husband or her missing daughter.

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Speaker 5: Susie never saw him, never saw them, didn't know anything

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Speaker 5: about what was going on.

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Speaker 3: Eventually, Sandy had to face what she didn't want to face,

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Speaker 3: that without the help of authorities, she had an uphill

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Speaker 3: battle ahead of her. She couldn't keep hitchhiking forever. She

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Speaker 3: had to settle down and make a home for the

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Speaker 3: children she still had. That's how it came to me

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Speaker 3: that two of Sandy's girls grew up with her in Virginia,

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Speaker 3: but Steve and Susie didn't. Sandy tell me some of

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Speaker 3: the story on the phone. What did you think could

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Speaker 3: have been happening to her. What was your imagination, like,

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Speaker 3: what is he doing with this child?

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Speaker 6: No? No, at that point, I didn't think he was

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Speaker 6: doing anything like that at all. And I think now

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Speaker 6: that I look back on it, that was really naive

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Speaker 6: on my part, because to him, she was a princess.

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Speaker 6: He could do nothing wrong. If she hit Alison or

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Speaker 6: hit Amy, it was Alison or Amy's fault, it was

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Speaker 6: her faults.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: She never did anything wrong.

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Speaker 3: Sandy knew him as Brandon Williams, but his real name

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Speaker 3: was Franklin Floyd. By this point he had been terrible

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Speaker 3: to her. She knew he had a temper, but couldn't

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Speaker 3: imagine he had hurt Susie.

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Speaker 6: And he just wanted her is what I thought. I

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Speaker 6: never thought it would be the nightmare it was.

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Speaker 3: My name is Todd Matthews and this is hello John Doe,

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Speaker 3: A sleuth, a family, and a serial killer. The story

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Speaker 3: of a family torn apart by tragedy, and my quest

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Speaker 3: to bring them back together. Chapter four, The Honda. Since

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Speaker 3: I started digging into Steve's life, I learned that he

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Speaker 3: was living with his adopted parents in North Carolina, not

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Speaker 3: that far from where Sandy gave birth to him. But

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Speaker 3: Sandy didn't know that because, as it turns out, she

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Speaker 3: wasn't working with the same clues I had, And you

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Speaker 3: didn't know to find Mary.

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Speaker 4: No, I did not know.

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Speaker 3: That's because Sandy's recollection of the adoption is pretty different

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Speaker 3: than Mary's. Mary said she got Steve from a trailer

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Speaker 3: park in nineteen seventy four, just six weeks after he

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Speaker 3: was born. The way Sandy remembered it, she had six

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Speaker 3: months with Steve before Floyd started talking about moving. They

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Speaker 3: were going to pile into his Honda and head to

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Speaker 3: Saint Louis.

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Speaker 5: And he said, we don't have room for everybody in

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Speaker 5: the car. And we drove one night to Mary's house

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Speaker 5: and took Steve and left him there. And I cried

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Speaker 5: the whole way back, and he said, we'll go back

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Speaker 5: and get him.

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Speaker 4: We'll go back and get him. We'll go back and

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Speaker 4: get him.

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Speaker 3: Here's what's weird. Mary and Sandy's story seemed to diverge

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Speaker 3: at every turn, but in the then diagram of mary

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Speaker 3: Memory and Sandy's, the tiny car was the overlap. Sandy

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Speaker 3: said the car was too small to bring everyone, even

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Speaker 3: an infant, and Mary remembered a tiny car too. It

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Speaker 3: had two doors and a small engine in front. When

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Speaker 3: Sandy was handing Steve over to her in the trailer part,

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Speaker 3: Mary said she noticed Floyd in the front seat and

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Speaker 3: three little ones in the back. I'll admit this tripped

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Speaker 3: me up a bed. It made Sandy's story feel more

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Speaker 3: true either way. Sandy said she left Steve because she

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Speaker 3: thought they would come back and get him. Their separation

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Speaker 3: was only temporary.

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Speaker 5: He said they were Georgia and Mary Washington, is what

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Speaker 5: he told me their names were. And of course I

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Speaker 5: was still thinking, I know, I was still not thinking

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Speaker 5: real clearly.

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Speaker 4: How did you feel when they just dropped him off?

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Speaker 5: Oh? I was upset, very upset. But I remember giving

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Speaker 5: him to Mary. I remember handing him to Mary and saying,

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Speaker 5: Mommy will be back to get you. Just give mommy

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Speaker 5: a chance to get where she's going to. Mommy come

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Speaker 5: back and get you, and kissing him.

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Speaker 3: And they continued on their trip in the Honda that

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Speaker 3: apparently didn't have room for four kids.

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Speaker 5: Well, when we lived in Saint Louis, we still had

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Speaker 5: the Honda and life always.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're going this weekend to get Steve. We're

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Speaker 4: going this weekend.

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Speaker 8: No, no, no, no.

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Speaker 4: And then finally he said, you'll never get him back.

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Speaker 3: Even when she did look after she went to jail,

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Speaker 3: she couldn't find Steve.

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Speaker 5: And I couldn't find Mary and George Washington anywhere in

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Speaker 5: North Carolina in that area.

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Speaker 3: Now it's possible Mary Washington is Mary Patterson. Floyd used

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Speaker 3: a ton of alienses. Maybe he changed Mary's last name

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Speaker 3: to make her untraceable. Still, the timing doesn't line up.

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Speaker 4: But I don't know how he knew Mary. That's what

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Speaker 4: I don't understand.

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Speaker 3: Maybe from the hospital.

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Speaker 5: He wasn't there when I had Steve. I didn't even

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Speaker 5: know him when I had Steve. I met him after.

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Speaker 4: I had Steve.

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Speaker 3: My producer Kate and I sat there with Sandy Parson

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Speaker 3: through the past trying to figure out how to square

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Speaker 3: Sandy's regulations with Mary's. Sometimes it was frustrating. I felt

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Speaker 3: like I'd shown up at Sandy's with a clear mission

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Speaker 3: to learn as much about Steve's adoption as I could

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Speaker 3: and bring those morsels of information back to him. But

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Speaker 3: there were some inconsistencies. Mary says Steve was adopted after

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Speaker 3: six weeks. Sandy says six months and the second thing.

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Speaker 3: They both remember the handoff happening in a trailer part,

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Speaker 3: but Mary thinks it's one in North Carolina, and Sandy

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Speaker 3: remembers driving out of state to give Steve up.

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Speaker 5: I don't know what I could have done. I really

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Speaker 5: don't know what I could have done. And I tried

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Speaker 5: everything I could do, but it still wasn't enough. And

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Speaker 5: I could understand from his point of view, feeling like,

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Speaker 5: why didn't.

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Speaker 4: You try hard?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Why didn't you you do more?

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Speaker 3: This was nineteen seventy five, around the time the tent

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Speaker 3: Girl went missing and my father in law, Wilbur founder

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Speaker 3: in Kentucky. Finding missing children was even harder than it

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Speaker 3: is today. We used to say it name is that

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Speaker 3: children lay fewer clues behind, they leave smaller footprints. It

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Speaker 3: was hard. It was hard. We didn't have cell phones,

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Speaker 3: we didn't have the internet. It's exactly how he felt.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't understand why, because he felt like you knew

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Speaker 3: where he was, but you do.

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Speaker 4: Know, Oh, I wish I hadn't known where he was.

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Speaker 3: What would you say to Steve if you could talk

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Speaker 3: to him right now?

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Speaker 4: I still love him.

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Speaker 5: I still see this little baby, and I'm I'm so.

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Speaker 4: Sorry about what I let be done.

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Speaker 5: But on the other hand, what was done was a

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Speaker 5: blessing because he wasn't a part of all this.

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Speaker 3: Sandy didn't know it at the time, but in giving

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Speaker 3: Steve away, she shielded him from a serial killer. She

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Speaker 3: possibly saved his life. Later on, Sandy shared some of

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Speaker 3: Steve's Facebook messages with us. He'd sent them back in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one. When I read them, my heart just sank.

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Speaker 3: He wrote, why did you leave me? You said there

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Speaker 3: was an excuse? Was it me? Was I not good enough?

243
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,840
Speaker 3: I am curious? Yet, in her telling, Sandy didn't intend

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Speaker 3: to give Steve up permanently, and she did look for

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Speaker 3: him in the immediate aftermath, but so many things stood

246
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Speaker 3: in her way, including not knowing Mary's real last name.

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Speaker 3: After I got home from my trip to see Sandy,

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Speaker 3: my mind kept racing. I had to tell Steve all

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Speaker 3: of this. I set up in time to play him

250
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Speaker 3: some of Sandy's interview. At this point that only ever texted.

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Speaker 3: They hadn't talked on the phone or met in person,

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Speaker 3: but Steve pushing off our meeting until one Saturday he

253
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Speaker 3: said he was ready. Janette, of course, was my side.

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Speaker 9: He guys, I would expecting it today, but it's a

255
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Speaker 9: pleasant surprise.

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Speaker 1: Okay, are we all here?

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Speaker 4: Let me speaker.

258
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Speaker 10: We might walk out to the car and see if

259
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Speaker 10: we could hear better out in the car, because we

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Speaker 10: can't really hear you, guys, very good.

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Speaker 11: Hold on, I gotta find the keys. I'm not prepared.

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Speaker 8: I'm far Linda, we grabbed sleep per second. Thank you, honey.

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Speaker 9: I'm a cat person.

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Speaker 10: Are you a quieter?

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Speaker 11: I promise you that.

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Speaker 3: I wanted him to hear what we heard when we

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Speaker 3: were with Sandy her side of the story this Saturday

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Speaker 3: in June. He was down to listen.

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Speaker 9: We're going to let you hear a little bit of

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Speaker 9: a tape.

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Speaker 3: So I had him listen to her story about the

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Speaker 3: tornado and how she started to spiral afterward.

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Speaker 5: The girls were traumatized by the tornado because we were

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Speaker 5: in the trailer when the tornado hit and we had

275
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Speaker 5: no way out, and I guess I snacked at I

276
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Speaker 5: didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 9: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 8: All right? All right?

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Speaker 3: Steve and Jeanette don't own a computer, so we were

280
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Speaker 3: talking on the phone, not on zoom. They connected the

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Speaker 3: phone to the car's bluetost that they could hear us,

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Speaker 3: which made Steve feel even farther away. I couldn't see

283
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 3: his face, but he seemed absent. Sandy says that she

284
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Speaker 3: was suffering from PTSD after a tornado wrecked her house,

285
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Speaker 3: and then she was barely functioning as a mother, and

286
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Speaker 3: she's admitted that. She said that there was a lot

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Speaker 3: of things she didn't remember, and she was traumatized, and

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Speaker 3: she said she didn't feel like she could take care

289
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Speaker 3: of kids. How seriously, Steve, do you take that Sandy

290
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Speaker 3: claims to have PTSD after a trailer was blown away.

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Speaker 11: He still having a hard time.

292
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Speaker 8: Thinking that she is not a terrible person.

293
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 3: Steve seem excited to get on the phone with us,

294
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Speaker 3: and I know Steve to be a pretty soft spoken dude,

295
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 3: but by this point in the call, he barely said

296
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 3: a word, and when he did, his emotions seemed muted.

297
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,520
Speaker 3: I was hopeful they're hearing the tape would change something

298
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Speaker 3: for him. I wanted him to hear Sandy describe the

299
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Speaker 3: impact Franklin Floyd had on her, how he had taken

300
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Speaker 3: over her life.

301
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Speaker 5: He destroyed all my pictures, most of my pictures of

302
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 5: my children, the girls, so.

303
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 3: You take everything, every memory everything.

304
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Speaker 1: How does that make you feel?

305
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Speaker 8: He does yeh, he might need to say, okay.

306
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Speaker 1: That's okay, let's take a minute.

307
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 9: It was a very different memory, you know.

308
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Speaker 10: He he doesn't know about any of the time that

309
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 10: he was with them, never heard about any of that.

310
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Speaker 1: She doesn't remembered handing you off to Mary, which was

311
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,239
Speaker 1: surprising to me. And I wonder if that's surprising to you, Steve.

312
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Speaker 8: Okay, it's not to me, then why not. I just

313
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Speaker 8: think she's a manipulator.

314
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Speaker 10: And I don't know, I want to I'm the type

315
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Speaker 10: of person that sees the good in anybody that after

316
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 10: watching how what he's went through, and I just hope

317
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Speaker 10: that she's just not trying to manipulate this as well.

318
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Speaker 9: Well. And there wasn't a lot of resources. Just imagine

319
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 9: if we had do network or name this.

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Speaker 3: Back in see if Y asked you wouldn't let us

321
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Speaker 3: call you a missing person. That we did anyway with

322
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Speaker 3: dot network because it's not regulating by the government, so

323
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Speaker 3: I could do whatever we.

324
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Speaker 8: Wanting, which was a blessing for us.

325
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Speaker 9: So it worked, I mean, it finally worked. It took

326
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Speaker 9: about a half about forty five years, but it finally worked.

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Speaker 3: There's no doubt Sandy would have benefited from the dough network.

328
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Speaker 3: Think of all the volunteers who could have helped her

329
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 3: find clues. By now, Jeanette and I were the only

330
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 3: ones talking. Something was wrong with Steve. I recognize what

331
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 3: was happening because I've done it myself. I think Steven

332
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 3: drunk too much to numb himself. Maybe it's the only

333
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 3: way he could get on this call with us. There

334
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,359
Speaker 3: was a lot to take in all this time. Steve

335
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,600
Speaker 3: had assumed Sandy didn't want him, but she told us

336
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 3: that she didn't. We played him to take.

337
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,399
Speaker 5: I honestly thought we were leaving Steve with friends of

338
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Speaker 5: his to come back and get him, like in a week.

339
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Speaker 5: But I remember giving him to Mary. I remember handing

340
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Speaker 5: him to Mary and saying, Mommy will be back to

341
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Speaker 5: get you. Just give mommy a chance to get where

342
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 5: she's going and Mommy will come back and get you,

343
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Speaker 5: and kissing him.

344
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Speaker 3: It was hard to tell how much of this sunk in.

345
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 3: He didn't say a thing after replayed him this stunning revelation.

346
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 3: Sandy or none of them want to force you to

347
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 3: do anything you don't want to do. But you're practically

348
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 3: begging have something to do with you. So does that

349
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Speaker 3: do you not feel loved and wanting? I do that

350
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Speaker 3: because you had to hear it with your own ears, right, Yeah?

351
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 1: Is there a part of that that changed for you?

352
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 1: Or what? What did anyone say that changed that for you?

353
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 8: Got this? I want to be warning he wants to

354
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 8: be wanted.

355
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 3: After about an hour on the phone with Steve, this

356
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 3: felt like something. Hearing Sandy's voice yielded a small breakthrough.

357
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 3: Steve admitted he wants to be wanting. In the weeks

358
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 3: that followed, I tried calling step again, wanting to update

359
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,959
Speaker 3: him on the other things I'd learned. Sometimes he texted

360
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,159
Speaker 3: me back and returned my calls, but sometimes he didn't.

361
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 3: I could tell this was hard on him. I think

362
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 3: he was reluctant to confront this hat on take on

363
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 3: fifty years of reckoning all at once. I think Steve

364
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: believed that Sandy had deliberately written him and Susie out

365
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 3: of her life, that once they were gone, they were gone.

366
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 3: But in talking to her other kids, I soon found

367
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 3: out that she never forgot about the two she lost,

368
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 3: even when she didn't always want to talk about it.

369
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 3: As she entered her late twenties, Sandy's life began to

370
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 3: fall into place. She went to a mental health group

371
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 3: where she talked about losing Susie and Steve. She got

372
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 3: married once more, and then finally to Carson Willett, her

373
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Speaker 3: husband of thirty years.

374
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Speaker 6: My kids at first, believeing my kids. We were living

375
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Speaker 6: in an apartment and we didn't have much. We didn't

376
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Speaker 6: have a TV. The first thing he did was the

377
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 6: next day he came back and in at te for

378
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Speaker 6: the kids. He said, no kids should be without a TV.

379
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 3: She had three more children, two boys and one more girl. Dorothy,

380
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 3: her youngest, told me that present day Sandy might be

381
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 3: unrecognizable to her younger self.

382
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 11: She's a caregiver. That's all she is. She's just a caregiver.

383
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 11: She will give you anything and everything that she If.

384
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 7: She's got five dollars in her pocketing, you need three

385
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 7: of it, she's gonna give it to you.

386
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, she's always taken care of us kids.

387
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 3: Dorothy only knows this Sandy. She never knew her mother

388
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 3: after the tornado, when she was inconsolable, when she could

389
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 3: barely take care of herself, let alone her children. But

390
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean, Dorothy doesn't question some of her mom's choices.

391
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 11: You know, I told my mom. I was like, you're stupid.

392
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 11: I was like, why don't you call your mom and dad.

393
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 7: She said that her mom and dad didn't want anything

394
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 7: to do with her because they thought that she was

395
00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 7: a whore. And my mom was never a whore. She

396
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 7: drank a lot, but she was never a whore. It's

397
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 7: not like she didn't look for them.

398
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 4: She did.

399
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 11: She was hitchhiking to go find them. It's not like

400
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 11: she gave.

401
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: Up, Dorothy said. Sandy always lived with hardape. Two of

402
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 3: her children were gone without a trace, maybe missing, maybe dead,

403
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 3: and it's the story her surviving five kids came to

404
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 3: understand too. Here's Amy again. She drives a school bus

405
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 3: in rural Virginia and it has an infectious belly laughing.

406
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 12: I remember at one time, I saw a picture once

407
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 12: of the three of us sitting on Santa Claus's lap,

408
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 12: and I think I was two. I was really small,

409
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 12: and then Alison was sitting on one leg and Susan

410
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 12: was standing beside Allison.

411
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 8: I think.

412
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 3: Amy's tried to conjure memories of her big sister. She

413
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: calls her Susan. But Amy was so young.

414
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 12: I'm gonna have pictures of her now, But that was

415
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 12: the only picture I'd ever seen, and I tried so

416
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 12: hard to remember that, and I can't.

417
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 8: It was that was it.

418
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 3: In the past, Amy's been frustrated by the holes in

419
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 3: her mom's memory, just like Steve.

420
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 12: It's always been an ongoing thing. But when you try

421
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 12: to talk to her about certain things when we were little,

422
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 12: she would change the subject real quick, just like, get

423
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 12: away from that, or tell you that's grown food business

424
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 12: in stead of grown folk business.

425
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 3: Sandy doesn't dispute this. When the kids were young, she

426
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 3: didn't think they were old enough to understand. In fact,

427
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 3: she said, they wonder why Floyd didn't take them, as

428
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 3: if Susie was on a permanent vacation or something.

429
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 6: We never had a lot of money or anything when

430
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 6: they were growing up, and they thought, I think that

431
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 6: she had a better life than Nigga, you know, like

432
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 6: they were kids, like they were missing out on something.

433
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: But by the time Dorothy, the youngest, became an adult,

434
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: she got more of the full story. Because Sandy's way

435
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: of talking about the loss evolved over time, Dorothy knew

436
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 3: about Susie and Steve, who were gone before she was born.

437
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: She studied the pictures of Susie, trying to figure out

438
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: the whole story. She knew that she had two elder

439
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 3: siblings that weren't around, but that was it.

440
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 11: My mom didn't have any baby pictures of them, but.

441
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 7: I didn't know about Susie. I'm like, Mom, who's this?

442
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 7: You know, I don't see her. And then she went

443
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 7: into the long, you know, telling me what happened. And

444
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 7: then she said that she also had a son too,

445
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 7: and I was like, okay, I'm like, well, where's he at?

446
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:47,239
Speaker 11: I thing?

447
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 7: I was like eight or nine years old when that happened.

448
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 7: She explained everything to me.

449
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 3: I don't think Steve's wrong for expressing some skepticism about

450
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 3: his mom and why she doesn't remember. Even her daughter's

451
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 3: a little skeptical of their own mom. Dorothy name. You

452
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 3: lived close to Sandy and see her often. They know

453
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: she feels ashamed. Here's Dorothy again, and.

454
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 7: Yes, she regrets that she didn't do everything that she could,

455
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 7: and yes she's putting a lot of the stuff on her,

456
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 7: the blame on herself. And I'm like, Mom, you know

457
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 7: it's not just your fault.

458
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: The way Dorothy sees it, there's a lot of blame

459
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: to go around. She also points a finger at Mary,

460
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: Steve's adoptive mom.

461
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 7: You know, I just I look at things different than

462
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 7: everybody else does. I guess you know you have my

463
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 7: brother the whole time, but yet you wouldn't give them

464
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 7: back to my mom.

465
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: But Sandy didn't have any contact with Mary and Baum.

466
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: It's not like they knew she was looking for Steve.

467
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 11: You know, I'm not just going to point the finger

468
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 11: at them.

469
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 7: A point the finger at Franklin too, you know, And

470
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 7: I'm pointing the finger at my mom. I don't just

471
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 7: sit there and single out anybody.

472
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: I can see where she's coming from. Each person played

473
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: a little role at keeping Steve loss for fifty years.

474
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: He grew up without knowing who his people were. But

475
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: in this story, there's only one man that broke up

476
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: this family, one kidnapper, one serial killer. I think he's

477
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 3: the one that deserves all of the anger and blame.

478
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 3: Sandy said she never gave up hope.

479
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 6: I am friends on Facebook with seven Philip Stephen Brandenburg

480
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 6: because I always thought that one of them might be him.

481
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: Maybe she'd see a little blond boy who kind of

482
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 3: looked the same and watch him for a second too long,

483
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: wondering who he belonged to. Was he Philip Stephen Brandenburg?

484
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: Or should get a glimpse of a little girl with

485
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 3: curly hair and sapphire blue eyes at the shopping mall

486
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 3: and Philip pool is that her? In the early nineteen eighties,

487
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: missing kids became a bigger deal in America. This is

488
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 3: around the time the National Center for Missing and Exploited

489
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: chill and was founding. There was this campaign get the

490
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: faces of missing kids on the backs of milk cartons.

491
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: The idea was to get the word out.

492
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 5: If there were faces on milk cartons, I would buy

493
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 5: everything of milk that they.

494
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 4: Had to see if it was my kids.

495
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 5: And at one point my parents told me that they

496
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 5: knew where Susie was.

497
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: Were they trying to make you feel better?

498
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 4: Or oh no, trying to make me feel worse.

499
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 3: And then in twenty nineteen, Steve found her. You know

500
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: the story. He found her on Facebook where she had

501
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 3: been looking for him.

502
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 4: I was crying so bad.

503
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 8: I don't even know.

504
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 10: One.

505
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 5: I didn't know how he found me when I couldn't

506
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 5: find him, because I thought I was doing everything, but

507
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 5: obviously I wasn't. But that's neither here nor there. And

508
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 5: I was so excited he was alive and at the

509
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 5: time he said he had a good life.

510
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: Was emotional. She had to process all of this, that

511
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 3: her child was alive and that maybe he had a

512
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 3: better life without her.

513
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 5: Bittersweet, Yes, I cry a lot anyway, but happy tears

514
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 5: and sad tears because I missed all those years, but

515
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 5: happy tears that he was safe and he was happy

516
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 5: or fairly hey. He said he wasn't super happy, but

517
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 5: he was fairly happy.

518
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: Steve, for his part, still isn't sure he wants to

519
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: meet Sandy.

520
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 5: I don't want to push him. It's at this point

521
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 5: in time, it isn't what I want. It's what he

522
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 5: wants and what he needs more.

523
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 4: Than what I need.

524
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: To Sandy, it was a miracle that Steve was alive

525
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: and came back into her life. I think that's part

526
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: of the reason she'd like to know him. She wasn't

527
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: afforded that miracle, was Susy. After she was taking at six,

528
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 3: Sandy never saw her again. When I was talking to

529
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: Sandy at her house in Virginia, her granddaughter Autumn was

530
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 3: kind of moving room to room. At this point, she

531
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: was nine months pregnant and ready to pop, starting to

532
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: think about the next generation of her family and the

533
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: stories that would be passed down. It seemed like she

534
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: was listening to our conversation or that she had something

535
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: to ask. Turns out she did.

536
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: Why was it, Susie.

537
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: It's the same question her aunts asked so many years ago.

538
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: Why Susie? Why deployed run away with the oldest?

539
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 4: Okay, why did he choose her? Okay, I'll start at

540
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 4: the bottom.

541
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 5: He didn't choose Amy because he thought Amy was a

542
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 5: little chubby Amy. Amy's always been, never been skinny of

543
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: day in her life. Not a bad thing, but she

544
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 5: was a cute, little chubby baby. He did not like

545
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 5: Amy because she was a hard headed to a herd

546
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 5: headed two year old. He didn't like it Alison, Alison

547
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 5: had health problems. Susie, he said, was the perfect child

548
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 5: sent from God to him. God. She says that God

549
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 5: gave her to him, That's why he took her.

550
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: Hearing this felt like a real punch in the gut.

551
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: How Sandy remembered exactly the way Floyd talked about her children.

552
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: Susie said her because Bloyd bleded she belonged to him.

553
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: The rest were saved because of their apparent imperfections. It's

554
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: this deranged thinking that would alter everyone's lives forever. Sandy

555
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: would find Steve in twenty nineteen, but Susie stayed missing,

556
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: even though her mother had been real close to finding

557
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: Susie back in her nineteen seventy five hitchhiking trip.

558
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 5: In fact, I had stopped in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and that's

559
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 5: where he was.

560
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: With her, but I didn't know he passed right.

561
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: Fine, Yeah, Floyd spent the next twenty years traveling with

562
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: her from state to state under the radar. We need

563
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: to realize that he had a criminal record.

564
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 6: Maybe back until ten years after he had disappeared.

565
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: He was a fugitive, had been on the run since

566
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three, before he had even met Sandy. He

567
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 3: was avayin charges for kidnapping. This kidnapping wasn't his first

568
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: and it wouldn't be his last. Next time on Hello

569
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: John Doe.

570
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 13: Just the kidnapping was straightforward, like a lot of kidnapping cases.

571
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 13: And then when you find out that he kidnapped the

572
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 13: boy's mother and you find out he killed somebody else

573
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 13: and he had the evidence. Yeah, they got convoluted.

574
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 8: Then for sure, people didn't talk about what happened in

575
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 8: people's houses, so nobody would have thought anything different.

576
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: So after the story came out, it was very eye

577
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: opening for all of us because none of us would

578
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: have ever thought she lived the life she lived. Hello

579
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: John Doe is an original productions by Revelations Entertainment in

580
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: association with First and Last Productions from Revelation. Our executive

581
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: producers are Morgan Freeman and James Younger from First to Last.

582
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is

583
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: ne On Hume Media. It was written and produced by

584
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is

585
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: also nil On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer

586
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our

587
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: associate producer is Rufaro Faith Maserua. Sound design and mixing

588
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by Jesse Pearlsting.

589
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions.

590
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: Frendall Faulton is our fact checker our production manager is

591
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan is our

592
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Reuben at Nion Hume

593
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeartMedia. I'm Todd Matthews.

594
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: You can learn more about name us at nam us

595
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: dot com. The number for the National Center for Missing

596
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: Exploited Children's Call Center is one eight hundred the loss

597
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: that's one eight hundred, eight four three five six seven eight.

598
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: The National Sexual Assauld Hotline from the Rate Abuse and

599
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: Incest National Network is one eight hundred six five six

600
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: core six seven three. Okay, guys, this is the end

601
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: of the show. If you didn't like it, don't do anything.

602
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: But if you did like it, you make sure that

603
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 3: you rate and review the show. It helps more people

604
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: to find it and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again

605
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: for listening.