1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here a show. I've had 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of ship actually, but but our our core 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: is collapse and UH, political violence in the United States. 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: That's that's where we got our bones. And today we're 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: getting back to basics. We're we're going into the roots. UM. 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Those of you who live in New Mexico are probably 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: broadly familiar with the kind of basics of this story. UM. 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Many of you probably will have heard aspects of this. 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: But there have been a series of shootings that took 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: place in December of last year in January of this year, 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: UM at the homes of to state legislators and two 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: county commissioners. No one was injured, thankfully, UM. But this 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: was obviously something that was scaring the hell out of 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people, UM, liberals and people on the 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: left in New Mexico over the last several weeks because 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: they were clearly politically motivated. UM. New Mexico has had 17 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: shootings at protests and it's its share of the political 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: violence that has swept a large chunk of the country. 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: And this seemed like a real scary years of lead 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: style escalation. UM. Very recently within the last couple of 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: days of US recording this, it was announced that the 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: police had brought in the guy who was responsible for 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: organizing this. Um. He did not carry out the shootings himself. 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: His name is Solomon Penia UM and he was a 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: former Republican candidate for local office who hired foreman Um 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: in order to shoot at the homes of elected Democrats. Um. 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: Those are the basics of it. Uh. The arrest Warren 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: affidavit says that Penia intended to cause serious harm or 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: cause death to the occupants inside their homes, which seems 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: pretty credible based on what we know objectively about what happened. Um. 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: It's also worth noting that Penia had donated repeatedly in 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: the past to Lyndon LaRouche, which I'm sure we'll it 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: into a little bit later. But I want to introduce 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: my guest for this episode who knows the story much 35 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: better than I do, a local, uh New Mexico based activist, 36 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: Lucas Herndon. Lucas, how are you doing today, buddy? I'm 37 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: doing good man. Glad to be back, sort of really 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: glad to have you back. You've been on the show before. 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna kind of let you take it from 40 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: here now that I've sort of laid out the bones 41 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, thanks, And just a couple of clarifying points, um, 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: which only because things have been moving very quickly today. Um, 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: this is the day after he was arrested. There is 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: actually now evidence put out from the A p D 45 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: that um Penya himself uh was in the car and 46 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: attempted to fire at least one of the targets. Apparently 47 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: he had an A R fifteen that quote unquote jammed. 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: It didn't stop that shooting from occurring. His accomplice, who 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: is unnamed at this time, at least to our knowledge, UH, 50 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: did fire a glock out of the car during that 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: That I mean, so that there was still a shooting 52 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: that happened. Yes, but it is worth noting that he 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: was not just the mastermind, but also an active participant, 54 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: at least according to what we know today. Yeah, it 55 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: looks like the weapon that was used was a tan 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: and black block with a drum magazine. UM or at 57 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: least the drum was seized at the thing doesn't really matter. Um. 58 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, So I'm interested kind of first in if 59 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: you want to walk us through how you became aware 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: that these shootings had happened, and how you would kind 61 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: of characterize the impact it had on on the community 62 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: around you, because this obviously is is intensely frightening and 63 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing most of us have been 64 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: paying attention, have been worried about happening for for quite 65 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: a while, right exactly that. Yeah, so, UM, you know, 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: in in the in the political nonprofit world, which which 67 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: I work in professionally, UM, it's not uncommon for the 68 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: whole movement sort of takes the last part of December 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: off for the holidays. UM. So unfortunately, there was sort 70 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: of not a lot of eyes on stuff in the 71 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: latter part of December. But as soon as we got 72 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: back to work on the third of January, a series 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: of events happened where there was a realization that there 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: were shootings that happened at different elected officials houses. Right, 75 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: and UM, it turns out or it looks like that 76 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: the cops were just starting to put it together themselves. 77 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: But it came from, um, the fact that the first 78 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: two targets were at the time ceded county commissioners in 79 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: berno Leo County. UM. Just for extra added confusion, UM, 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: one of those targets was she finished her term at 81 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: the end of the year, so she's now she's not 82 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: technically sitting as a commissioner anymore, just just for clarity UM. 83 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: But then over the course of of you know, those 84 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: weeks that we were all out, there were also then 85 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: shootings at UM one of the state senators homes, and 86 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: then in January there was also shootings at the campaign 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: office of who the gentleman who is now our state 88 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: attorney general. Within our sort of movement of people that 89 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,119 Speaker 1: work on you know, political things, we were all gearing 90 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: up for the session are in New Mexico. Our legislative 91 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: session kicks off a sixty day term actually started today 92 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: on January, and it became clear to all of us 93 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: that this was happening, and we started, you know, talking 94 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: amongst ourselves, and we really we did find out that 95 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: at that point the cops had started piecing it together. 96 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: They were piecing together pieces of information. It turns out 97 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: that after the shooting on the third, UM the only 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: other named accomplice so far, this guy, Jose Trahio, was 99 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: arrested forty minutes after the shooting, UM a p D 100 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: because of ongoing issues with UM crime in the in 101 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: the city of Albuquerque has like a quick response like 102 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: system set up that like tracks gunfire and yeah, so 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: they were they were able to track this guy down. Um. 104 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: He was driving a car that was registered to Penya 105 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: Um and uh, there was other connections obviously that the 106 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, cops put things together and then yeah, and 107 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: they executed the search warrant yesterday. There was a swat situation. 108 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: It sounds like it was um preventative more than anything, 109 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: but it But but some of the stories that have 110 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: come out is that he was reluctant to leave at first, 111 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: but there wasn't actually any overt threats of violence. But 112 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, the cops did respond was swat when they 113 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: arrested him. Yeah, I mean, given the fact that he 114 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: had carried out a series of shootings. Uh, not surprised 115 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: to hear that. Now, I'm I'm kind of curious. Was 116 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: there a commune ay response prior to sort of Pinia 117 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: being exposed and arrested. Was their community response kind of 118 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: reacting to the fact that there were was an escalating 119 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: series of shootings targeting local elected leaders. Yeah. So the 120 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: company I worked for, Progress Now New Mexico, we put 121 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: out a series of tweets. UM. Basically as soon as 122 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: we had started putting two and two together. UM, you know, 123 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: we we were careful to say that this appears politically motivated. 124 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: We don't have hard evidence, but it's hard to not 125 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: put those two things together. We at progress now and 126 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: and me specifically, having worked here for a very long time, UM, 127 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I have been tracking political violence here in the state, 128 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: UM for for a while, and and i've i've i've 129 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: been part of it in the sense that I was 130 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: threatened and docked in as were some of my other colleagues, 131 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: and so you know, these things hit close to home, 132 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: right and on the and on the one hand, it's 133 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: it's tough to see these things as anything but political 134 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: violence for for those of us like you, Robert, that 135 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: like we see it all the time because we're paying 136 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: attention to it. On the other hand, there is unfortunately 137 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: a lot of gun violence in Albuquerque, and you know, 138 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: so there were there were some pushback. People thought, oh, 139 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: I know, this is just you know, there's just that 140 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: much gun violence quote unquote, but that's you know, that 141 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: was a silly premise. Honestly, this was very clearly politically motivated. 142 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: And now that we have a person to attach this to, 143 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: and we can look at his social media history and 144 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: and you know, stuff we've found in telegram, stuff on 145 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: his Twitter. It's so clear. I mean he we just 146 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: actually even today, right before we got on here, we 147 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: just published another telegram piece that we found on our 148 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: Twitter that he threatened the Secretary of State after he 149 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: lost his election, UM telling saying that he she should 150 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: quote unquote hang until she's dead. So yeah, I mean, 151 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: he's this has been an ongoing part of his UM 152 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: ideology for a while. You know, he has a lot 153 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: of pro maga posts UM, a lot of big lie 154 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, teainted election, you know, uh rhetoric all over 155 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: his social media such as it exists anyway, Now, have 156 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: this altered it all um or had an impact on 157 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: your thinking of UM. You know, when when you have 158 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: attacks or a series of attacks like this, as you said, 159 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: it's impossible to say prior to kind of knowing who 160 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: did it, that like this is certainly politically motivated, But 161 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: at a certain point it becomes kind of reasonable and 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: and safe to make that assumption. And I think also 163 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: necessary when you're trying to two protect a community and 164 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: get people prepared for the likelihood that they're going to 165 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: encounter of violence. UM. We've also had those cases where 166 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: like it, it is impossible to know. You know, we 167 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: had a series of attacks on power plants last year. 168 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: We still don't know who did the ones in North 169 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: Carolina or who did the one it's in Portland. But 170 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: it turned out that the folks who did that Christmas 171 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: Day attack UM on power substation in um Washington State 172 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: were um uh just robbing a place right effectively non political. 173 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: So it is kind of impossible to get Has this 174 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: altered it all your kind of feelings on when and 175 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: at what sort of point do we start raising the alarm? Yeah, 176 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think that progress now you know, 177 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: my my, my organization that I work with, we as 178 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: soon as we heard something was afoot, we put out 179 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: the word for us. It was for us it was 180 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: a matter of safety, as as as people who have 181 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: lived through it ourselves. UM, this was a time that 182 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: the community needed to be aware of these things and 183 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: be thinking about it. Um and and to be honest 184 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: at you know, our our group discussion about it was 185 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: it was better to be safe than sorry. If if 186 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: somehow this wasn't political, or if it was maybe personalized 187 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: or something like that um at you know, at the 188 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: legislators and lawmakers, rather than it being overtly just political ideology. 189 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: You know, that would be we could walk it back. 190 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: But again it was for us we made the decision 191 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: that no, this information needs to be out there. Um. 192 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: We have, especially as we were gearing up for the session, 193 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: there was just there's too much on the line. Um. 194 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: You know, up until a couple of years ago, at 195 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: our state legislature, which we call the Roundhouse because it's 196 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: a big round building. Um. Up at the Roundhouse, you 197 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: could carry firearms into the building. Um. It was just 198 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: a sort of a remnant of New Mexico's sort of 199 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: wild West days, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But uh, but 200 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: with the with the rise of with the rise of 201 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: far right related violence, and you actually did have armed 202 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: insurrection minded people showing up um in and around January six, um. 203 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: But even before that, really during during lead up with 204 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the MAGA rallies, the Trump trains and 205 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: all that, Uh, the legislature passed their own you know 206 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: rules saying you couldn't bring guns into the into the legislature, 207 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: and that was upped even further this year by the 208 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: installation of metal detectors. So, but that's new. But that 209 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: was directly related to this, this this looming threat over 210 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: over lawmakers in the state. Um, they didn't know if 211 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: they were going to have anybody in custody before things 212 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: started started today, and so the legislature made that decision 213 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: for themselves that they were going to institute that policy 214 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: and have metal detectors on the way in. Yeah, I 215 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: mean that that that that makes sense and that I 216 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: as I understand it that it's still the law in 217 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: the state of Texas actually that you can be armed 218 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: inside the Capitol building. I certainly had been during protests 219 00:12:46,600 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: years ago. It's interesting the watching kind of the simultaneous 220 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: adaptation by the law enforcement, by kind of elected and 221 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: sort of standard centrist Democrats and by the left in 222 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: different ways to this escalation in in political violence, and 223 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of the acceptability on the right of using the 224 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: threat or the practice of violence to try to push 225 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: um for political ideology. UM. Because everyone is kind of 226 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: adapting in real time to it. UM. I'm wondering, how 227 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: are you kind of looking at this from the left, 228 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: How are you how are you feeling about the way 229 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: in which the actual state has responded so far. Yeah, 230 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: it's complicated. UM. So the tradition in New Mexico is 231 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: on the opening day of the legislature the governor gives 232 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: the state of the state address. UM. And I covered 233 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: that earlier today. One of her key points and she 234 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: and she tied it to this very issue, was she 235 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: is pushing as a priority bill this year a quote 236 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: unquote assault weapons ban. Uh. There is also another legislator 237 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: who is pushing, um a what we would call a 238 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: standard capacity but what they call a high capacity magazine ban. 239 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: And you know, and then there's some other ones that 240 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: are maybe a little bit more UM reasonable, like safe 241 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: storage um, which is something that I can get behind, 242 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: you know. And I think there's a couple of things 243 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: here to consider and and you know, and it gets 244 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: complicated because people on the right have dominated the conversation 245 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: about guns and gun control for so long that it's 246 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: hard to have UM, well intentioned conversations from the left, 247 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: I find UM And and yeah, yeah, so, you know, 248 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: speaking personally as a gun owner and as somebody who 249 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: has um made the decision of my life to be 250 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, armed and ready and have you know, body armor. 251 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: And I you know, I don't just shoot guns. I 252 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: train with guns. I train other people. I have a 253 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: group of people that I work with and trust that 254 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: if things ever got real bad, I would, you know, 255 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: we would call each other. Um. Being that guy, I 256 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: obviously have very strong feelings about being told by the 257 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: state that I don't have a right to defend myself 258 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: with the same types of weapons that I know the 259 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: other side has. Right, so I think the answer you know, Sorry, 260 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a roundabout, but the 261 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: point is that, um, the person who perpetrated this, um 262 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: Mr Penya. It's unclear, but he is a felon. And 263 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: um there is some hay being made about um how 264 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: he and others may have possessed guns. And you know, 265 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: the reality we know is that it is not hard 266 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: or difficult. Um two try to get guns one way 267 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: or the other and so and and now you can 268 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: just draw across the border to Texas for one thing, 269 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: I mean, or Arizona. Yeah, yeah, or Arizona. This guy 270 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: was already what was in fact restricted from being able 271 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: to own any kind of firearm, right, right, And and 272 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: so it is hard to be somebody who works in 273 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: the political left, and I work on a number of 274 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: policy issues. My my day to day work focus is 275 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: more on energy issues. UM. But but you know, but 276 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: I have been doing this work long enough that I 277 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: step in whenever there's stuff like this happening and cover 278 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: it for for my work. But it's yeah, it's UM, 279 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: it's gonna be interesting to see. You know. I don't 280 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: know if there's the political will in the state New Mexico. UM, 281 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: even you know, moderate Democrats are our hunters are recreational shooters, UM. 282 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: And I think that there's you know, there is some 283 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: strong feelings about gun violence. There was a very tragic 284 00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: death UM involving children last year during our legislative session, UM, 285 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: where where a middle schooler I believe maybe a high 286 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: school or a kid either way, UM, took a pistol 287 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: from his parents, you know, sock drawer basically and shot 288 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: a kid. And you know, so again, safe storage is 289 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: one of those things that I think most people generally 290 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: can get behind, especially if we do something really good 291 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: like subsidized safe storage, so that if you know, if 292 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: you're a person who is of lesser means but you 293 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: still want to protect yourself with a firearm, you can 294 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: figure out how to get a safe or something like that. Anyway, 295 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: that's so there there are things that we can do. UM. 296 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: I think we know that outright bands one don't work 297 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: and are hard to pass, and things like magazine capacity things, 298 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: the enforcement level becomes difficult, and UM a good example 299 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: of that is in New Mexico, we did pass a 300 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: red flag law a number of years ago. And uh, 301 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, I've heard, I know you've talked about red 302 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: flag laws in the past, and you know, and we 303 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: had what a lot of states have had, which is 304 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: that a number of sheriffs in conservative counties just very 305 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: publicly said out loud that they weren't going to enforce it. 306 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 1: And sure enough, you know, last year during the summer, 307 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: when we hit the two year mark of the lab 308 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: beying into effect, it had been used less than a 309 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: dozen times um statewide. And so yeah, I mean, and 310 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: one of the one of the things that's of obvious 311 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: concern is if you have a lot of people living 312 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: in these conservative areas where the sheriffs aren't enforcing the laws, um, 313 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: they effectively have the ability to take the firearms they 314 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: can acquire there to the areas that have maybe more 315 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: restrictive gun control where there are elected Democrats and then 316 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: shoot up their houses. Um, yeah, I think kind of 317 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: outside of that, I'm wondering. So, and obviously we're still 318 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: looking at the fall out of this. There's still quite 319 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: a bit we don't know. I don't think there's a 320 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: lot of context on how Penya found these men that 321 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: he hired. Um, although I am interested in that. I 322 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: think it'll be it'll be worth learning. Is there kind 323 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: of a lessons learned that that you're going through with 324 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: us here? Has this altered it all kind of going forward? 325 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: How you think you might respond or your community might 326 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: respond the next time something like this occurs. Oh yeah, 327 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean I think there's a couple. I mean, actually, 328 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: one of the things you just said is that we 329 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know how we found these guys. And and 330 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: that's true because we still don't know the names of 331 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: some of them. But the one, the one man we 332 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: do know, UM was one of was a was a 333 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: person who donated money to him while while he was 334 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: running because because again remember this this is this was 335 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: a man who was running for office last year and 336 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: lost three to one. Um And and yeah, and so 337 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: this this one accomplice whose name we have Jose Triho 338 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: donated to him, and um, they're very you know, they're 339 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: they're clearly, um, they clearly know each other and have 340 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: some sort of a connection there. But I think what's 341 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: worth noting is that going down that path. Right, So 342 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: when I looked up that guy, I found the political 343 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: a nation from last year. And while I was there 344 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: looking at political donations, I just happened to look at 345 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: all the other names, which is how I found the 346 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: other uh you know the name of the other man 347 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: who has his connection to him, um Fletcher and Michael Fletcher. Right, 348 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: And that guy two years ago, during the you know protests, 349 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: drove a car through a crowd of protesters, and thanks 350 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: to some amazing um, you know, anti fascist organizers here 351 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: in New Mexico, they were able to identify them, even 352 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: though the cops never did anything about it. And so 353 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: I think that if if there's gonna be lessons learned here, 354 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: it's that these people have been showing their true colors 355 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: for a long time. And um there's if if if 356 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: we're going to have police in this world we live 357 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: in and we're going to ask them to quote unquote 358 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: keep us safe, Uh, then they have to do their job, 359 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: and they have to follow up with with things like know, 360 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: somebody driving through a crowd of people. The video is 361 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: on our Twitter thread. It's very scary. I mean, I 362 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: know people have seen it all over the country. It 363 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: wasn't just unique in New Mexico. But um, anyway, that 364 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: guy was Penya's third highest donor and he's a young man. 365 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: His his listed profession is security guard and um and 366 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: the other guy, jose A Trihio, is listed as a cashier. 367 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of questions about how how did 368 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: these young men have so much money it with jobs 369 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: that are you know, you don't necessarily have a lot 370 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: of money lying around if you're a cashier a security 371 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: guard at least at least not to donate to political candidates. 372 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: Back when I had jobs like that, I didn't anyway, Um, 373 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: and especially then also for all the guns they have, right, Like, 374 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: there's pictures of these guys with a table full of 375 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: glocks and um, you know and mag's and that's that 376 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: stuff is not cheap, so I don't there's there's there 377 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: is a these people were known to law enforcement one 378 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: way or the other, because again Penya was a felon 379 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: and um, I want to be clear he was able 380 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: to run in New Mexico because in Mexico we believe 381 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: felons deserve a second chance for things like running for office. 382 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: In fact, it would be great someday to have somebody 383 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: who's maybe got that life experience to become a legislator. Obviously, 384 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: there are circumstances like maybe this one that proved that 385 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: people haven't you know, turned around from whatever life they 386 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: were leading beforehand. But we're also but we're also not 387 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: here excluding people from being Um, being a felon does 388 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: not make you a bad person, That's what I'm really 389 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: trying to say here. But a felon who has a 390 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: history like this and then has clearly demonstrated a will 391 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: towards violence and hangs out with violent people, UM, maybe 392 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: there should be some things done to keep an eye 393 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: on those people. This is one of those situations that 394 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: there's a number of difference to lucitions too or I 395 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: think things that will will lead to solutions. But it's 396 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: also it's much more muddled than people would like it 397 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: to be. Um. I think I tend to think that 398 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: from the perspective of like people who are activists, who 399 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: are members of the community. One of the better things 400 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: that we can do is keep an eye, as y'all do, 401 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: on who's doing what. Like you know, when you have 402 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: people who are donating to one of these right wing, 403 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, fascist kind of candidates, Um, when they're saying 404 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 1: certain things on social media, or the candidates saying so 405 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: things on social media that are seen as incitements to violence. Like, 406 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: keeping those people on your radar is useful and keeping 407 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, as you did, being able to kind of 408 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: document once somebody actually starts acting, Hey, this person has 409 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: has made further threats in the past. Um, these are 410 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: groups of people that might be at risk from them. 411 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: We know the person, Like, here's evidence that this person 412 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: is and has been a threat. That's all really useful. Um. 413 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: The question is always is like, how do we actually 414 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: stop these people before they carry out violence? Um? And 415 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: this is a question that that to to be certain, 416 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: law enforcement the state don't have very good answers for 417 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: because they only kind of come in and take action after, um, 418 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: the attacks have started. We just got lucky in this 419 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: case that nobody was hurt or killed. Um. You know, 420 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: there have been a couple of of mass shootings averted 421 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: as a result of anti fascists finding someone who was 422 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: making threats, who had firearms and in some cases like 423 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: was not legally supposed to have them, and making that 424 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: public ahead of time. Um, but more often than not, 425 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: it's sort of this case as it as it was 426 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: pen where we're the name comes out, we realize who 427 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: it was, and it's like, yeah, we had we had 428 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: this guy documented, We knew this dude was a threat. 429 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 1: And I think that's the that is still kind the 430 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: the thing that we don't have a good answer to 431 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: is what is the actual how do you how do 432 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: you actually take action to stop these people from carrying 433 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: out the attacks? Because obviously there's a thousand different legal 434 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: issues with that, there's a number of different moral issues 435 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: with that, because for every guy like Pinia who talked 436 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: about carrying out attacks and then attacked people, there's a 437 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: couple of dozen who talk about ship like this and 438 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: don't do anything. But UM, I don't know, this is 439 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: this is something that I think that I think has 440 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: to be answered and it's not on you know, you 441 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: specifically or the New Mexico activist community to figure it out, 442 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: but it is it is like, this is a big 443 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: part of the struggle. I think because the the cops 444 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: and the state, we'll do the thing that they do, 445 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: which is when there are bodies or when there's bullet 446 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: casings on the ground, generally, eventually someone will get arrested, 447 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: not always, not necessarily, even the vast majority of the time. Again, 448 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: nobody's caught the fucker's we're blowing up power stations in 449 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina. But you know, so, I think the question 450 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: for us that and I'm sorry, folks, I'm not going 451 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: to be im not gonna be saying, here's how we 452 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: solve the problem of armed right wingers carrying out attacks 453 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: on people is how do we how do we get 454 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: from knowing who's a threat to stopping them effect effectively 455 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: stopping them from carrying out actual attacks. And that is, 456 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, as our years of lead, if that is 457 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: what we're in and boy, things like this make me 458 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: think that that's a reasonable way to describe the present 459 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: political situation in the United States. Um, this is something 460 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: we're going to have to answer. And obviously you know, 461 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: I've asked you kind of your lessons on it. We don't, 462 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: we don't. I don't think there's much more to say 463 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: at the moment. But it is this is this is 464 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: the question, right, Um, it's a question we ask ourselves. 465 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: I know people are asking themselves up in Portland. Um, 466 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: the guy who carry out an attack almost exactly a 467 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: year ago at a protest in Portland at a long 468 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: history of making threats online and now one person is 469 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: dead and others paralyzed, several more have been have been injured. 470 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: You know, these are this is. This is a tough question, 471 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: and it's it's not one that uh, I think just 472 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: kind of raw ideology actually gives us a very good 473 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: answer on because there's the there's the emotionally satisfying answer, 474 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: which is like, well, we just need to get some 475 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: folks together and go like fuck these people up. And 476 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: it's like, well, you can't. That's actually not a realistic 477 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: thing because number one, there's so many people making these threats, 478 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: like you don't actually have the human bandwidth two for 479 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: that to be realistic outside of the fact that those 480 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: people would be destroying their lives and throwing themselves into 481 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: the mall of the state to do it. So this 482 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: is this is a toughie. I do. There's I mean, 483 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: there's one there's one part of this that I think 484 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: New Mexico can can offer some some I don't know. 485 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: There's one thing we got right, and um, I don't 486 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: know if if you know, everybody out there is familiar 487 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: with the name Coy Griffin or his organization Cowboys for Trump. 488 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: But during the lead up to the election, this guy 489 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: kind of made a name for himself. He went around 490 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: the country on horseback with a bunch of dudes and 491 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: they all dressed up like Larkin as cowboys. Um, most 492 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: of them are not and um, and you know they 493 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: had American flags and they yeah, literally called Cowboys for Trump. 494 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: This guy was a seeded county commissioner in Otaro County 495 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: here in New Mexico. And um, he went to January 496 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: six and he was the first convicted person from the 497 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: January six fallout, and he lost his seat in in 498 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: Otaro County, which is like the smallest amount of thing, right, 499 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: Like it's the man should have been locked up. But um. 500 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: But one of the things that is frustrating but also 501 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: maybe good, is that probably you know, through my work 502 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: doing what I do, I had been documenting this man 503 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: for years because he'd been saying all kinds of crazy shit. Um. 504 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: Sometime in nineteen I think or maybe it was. He 505 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: like went up on top of a mountain to pray 506 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: this is his words, and recorded himself on a Facebook 507 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: live and like literally said that black people should go 508 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: back to Africa and like this. This video was on 509 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: his Facebook and I mean it had been out for 510 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: days and nobody said anything about it anywhere until I 511 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: clipped it and put it on Twitter. You know, I 512 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: took I took away the forty minutes of other weird shit, 513 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: he said, and I put that thing out into the 514 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: world and said, this man deserves to be like under 515 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: so much scrutiny, it's ridiculous. And then of course it 516 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: got pressed, and then of course he came under fire, 517 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: and then a couple of people were paying attention. So 518 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: then when he went to January six and again on 519 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: a live video because people can't stop instagramming their crimes, 520 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: he said he was taking all of his guns and 521 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: going to meet his you know, homies in in Washington, 522 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: and so he got arrested. He got arrested there. He 523 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: was one of the few people who got arrested like 524 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: on the ground that day because the FBI and the 525 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: Secret Service were already looking for him. Because again somebody 526 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: else had been out loud about saying, uh, this man 527 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: literally just said he's taking guns to d C. Is 528 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: somebody please going to do something about this? So I 529 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: don't know, it wasn't great and I feel like more 530 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: could have been done, and again, fortunately no one got hurt. 531 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess people did if you wanted to 532 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: take the whole of January six into into UM mean, 533 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: but I guess. I guess. My point is is that 534 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: it's sort of just a constant vigilism, right, It's like 535 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: you just have to be and it's not you know, 536 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: and obviously one person can't do it, but you have 537 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: to have groups of people that do it. I mean, 538 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm one guy who works with an organization of 539 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: people and we work on a number of policy things 540 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: in the state. And again I don't necessarily do this 541 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: all the time, but I also know that there's a 542 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: number of amazing people, especially in no Tarot County, UM 543 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: which is a very conservative county, but there's a number 544 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: of amazing people who do really hard work and they 545 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: show up at county commission meetings and they get thrown out, 546 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: and they go to school board meetings and they get 547 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: thrown out, but they go and they document it, and 548 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: they tweet and they TikTok and and it's it's you know, 549 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: it's that work that puts the word out from these little, 550 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: tiny places. You know. The last time I was on 551 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: the show, Robert, we were talking about the school board 552 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: stuff here in Los Cruces and the right wing chuds 553 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: that had showed up to that, and you know, it's 554 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: the same thing, right, It's like, you don't I mean, 555 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: you can't do it alone. But it doesn't take that 556 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: many people to show up. And as you know, and 557 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: once you once you show them that you're not afraid 558 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: and that there's more of us than there are of them, 559 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: they tend to slink away. And I think that there's 560 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: I think that there's value in that, and there's you know, 561 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: it's not the answer that you're talking about, but there's 562 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: there's a modicum of hope they're worth remembering. Yeah, I 563 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: think that's a really good point. That's all. Those are 564 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: all really good points. Um well, Lucas, I think that 565 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: more or less covers what we came to talk about today. 566 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: Did you have anything else you wanted you wanted to 567 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: say to the audience before we kind of roll out 568 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: of here anything you wanted to plug, place you want 569 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: to well, yeah, I mean yeah, I'd just like to 570 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: say that, you know, I the number one donor to 571 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: this guy's campaign is a corporation called Halopano Corporation. It's 572 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: owned by a billionaire named Harvey Yates. He's part of 573 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: the family that discovered oil in the state of New Mexico. 574 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: New Mexico is the second largest producer of oil in 575 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: the United States. Harvey Yates donated to every Republican candidate 576 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: this cycle. And I think that what I want to 577 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: like just just say out loud, because again, my my 578 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: job is normally I talk about energy issues. Is that 579 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: on the one hand, you know, we have questions about 580 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: where some of these young men who have you know, 581 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: cashier jobs and security guard jobs, where they came up 582 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: with four thousand dollars to donate to a political candidate 583 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: over the course of a few months. It's not unsurprising 584 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: that an oil corporation donated five thousand dollars, right, But 585 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: what's worth remembering is is that you know, these these 586 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: mega corporations of it of all stripes, but especially oil 587 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: and gas um are the backbone of the political movement 588 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: that we are talking about. You know, even if we're 589 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: sort of beating around the bush, right, there's there's one 590 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: side here that is dominated very heavily by this far 591 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: right extremism. And they and they and their funders treat 592 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: them all the same, right, Like, oil and gas companies 593 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: don't care if you're a quote unquote moderate Republican or 594 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: a hardcore right wing maga guy or a literal Nazi. 595 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: They just want somebody who's gonna like get in there 596 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: and you know, give them tax subsidies. Um. And you know, 597 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: and I just the the fight over energy issues in 598 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: this country is often framed around climate change, as it 599 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: should be, because I mean, obviously the climate crisis is 600 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: something we can't ignore, but it's so much worse than that. 601 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: And you know, we could do a whole other thing 602 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: about that someday, but I just it's just so important. 603 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: I can't let it go. Um. You know, looking looking 604 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: at at this at this what I'm gonna call it 605 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: domestic terrorists donation sheet, you know, and seeing that the 606 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: number one, you know, his number one donor was this 607 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: oil and Guests guy, Like, it's just not a coincidence. 608 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: It really isn't and it's it's worth remembering. So that's 609 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,479 Speaker 1: that's the last thing I want to plug or last 610 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: thing I want to say in terms of plugs. You 611 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter. I'm just Lucas E. Herndon 612 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: and if you are interested in New Mexico politics things, 613 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: you can follow us now at progress Now I am awesome. 614 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: Uh well you cannot find me there, but you can 615 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: find me elsewhere. Um, you'll figure it out. Thank you, Lucas. 616 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: This has been really I mean good is a weird word, 617 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: but I appreciate it. That's what happened last time too. Yeah. Well, 618 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll have you back on in the near 619 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: future and we will be back tomorrow with some more 620 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: ship that is hopefully, uh fun fun stuff, maybe fun stuff. 621 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: I always get the episodes where it's not it could 622 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: happen here, it's it did happen here, the thing has occurred. 623 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: Oh no, all Rank Robert, thank you. It could happen 624 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: here is a production of cool Zone Media. Well more 625 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone 626 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 627 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 628 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: podcasts you can find sources for. It could happen here, 629 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: Updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. 630 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.