WEBVTT - Demystifying the Bloom Box 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.880 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:17.520 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.680 welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Polette and 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.119 I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.680 Sitting across from me as always his senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.720 Hey McFly you bo Joe. Those boards don't work on 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:37.120 water unless you got power. So let's go straight into 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:45.280 a little listener mail. This listener mail comes from Jeremy. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.760 Jeremy says, Hi, my name is Jeremy, and I'm a 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.040 big fan of the show. After listening to the one 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.360 on plasma waist converters, I'm baffled as to why we 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.440 have not fully embraced this amazing technology. I was wondering 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.640 if you guys could do a show on something called 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.320 a bloom box. I don't know a lot of about it, 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.000 but I think it's about the size of an ice 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.959 chest and can power a home running off of natural gas. 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.360 It seemed almost too good to be true. Hopefully you 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.560 can talk about and keep up the good work. Thanks well, 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.920 thank you, Jeremy. We've decided we're going to start a 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.800 new series, not a new podcast, but a new series 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.800 within our podcasts, because we like to do that. This 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:26.040 was suggested by Mr Pellette himself. Indeed, it's demystifying the blank. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.200 So in this case, we're demystifying the bloom box. Awesome. Um, 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.240 for a second there, I thought we were playing match game. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.440 I thought we were playing a puzzle game, computer puzzle game, 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:43.600 graphically driven. We were de missedifying the bloom box. So 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:47.840 the bloom box, yes, actually bloom box is Did you 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.480 go to bloom Energy's website. Yes? I did, Yeah, so, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.880 and I printed out the data sheet, which is apparently 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.000 printed on recycled paper, because it says that when I 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.400 printed it on it, Wow, I thought that was funny 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.720 that they included it. Anyway, So it is printed on 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.960 recycled paper. Yeah, they put it on the thing. But 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.640 how how do they know? I know, it's it's amazing, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.680 it's a fantastic but no, they This has been something 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.360 that's in the news. I actually wrote a blog post 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.560 about it a few months ago. Um, because they sort 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:19.840 of hit the scene at the right time. As a 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.959 matter of fact, there was a thing on sixty minutes 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.600 the TV news show here in America. UM about it 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:27.799 not too long before I wrote that, and it's sort 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:32.040 of been a buzzworthy topic, but in a way it's 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.519 kind of not new. Yeah. First of all, let's let's 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.200 go ahead and say that that bloom Energy refers to 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:42.760 them as bloom Energy servers. Yes, they're not bloom Boxes, 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.280 at least not on the website. I didn't see a 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:49.560 direct reference to bloom box from their corporate message. That 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.120 was sort of the media name I saw. Yeah, I 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.080 think people have It's sort of like the we mote 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.040 as you are, I want to call the we remote 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.160 by Nintendo. The Nintendo put the kai bosh on calling 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.040 it the we moat before its actual release, but people 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.520 still call it that anyway, especially Jonathan. They probably felt 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.800 we morse about it. Oh so anyway, Yes, bluem Energy 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.040 calls the device the Energy Server, and there are a 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.000 couple of different varieties. The one that that you were 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.720 talking about, Jeremy, is not the one that they've already 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.320 released and isn't used by people. What they the data 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.000 sheet eye downloaded is for the corporate version, which is 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.679 the e S five thousand Energy Server, and it is 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.360 a much larger device actually takes up uh reportedly about 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.560 the size of a parking space, hopefully it's not the 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.840 one parked in the CEO slot. It weighs approximately ten tons, 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.240 so this is a hefty piece of machinery. Yes, it 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.280 does in fact run on natural gas, although it can 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:54.080 use other biogas. UM. It does require some water, about 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.120 a hundred and twenty gallons of water force startup UM. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.840 It can output about a hundred kill the lots, which 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.440 is pretty significant UM and that could be used to 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:09.400 power several homes yep as well. So UM, I'm sorry 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.480 you're still giving some specs. Well, I was looking for 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.240 anything else that that folks might be interested in, and 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.560 I would encourage you, if you're really interested in in 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.200 the bloom box to to download the data sheet because 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.120 they really made it very easy to to understand. It 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.800 can't operate in a grid, which is interesting too because 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.120 for large buildings like for example, warehouses where you might 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.799 need a whole lot of power, or data centers for example, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.719 where you need lots of air conditioning to cool the 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.240 computers inside. UM, you can operate them in a in 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.839 a grid. UH. You can have your own local grid 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.560 if you will to power your industrial applications. Yeah, and 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.920 that was sort of the big news about the bloom 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:51.000 Box was that this was a device that could theoretically 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.800 allow people to get off the power grid entirely and 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.080 power their own homes with this little People were calling 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.320 it like essentially a portable power plan, yes, or a 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.280 a pint sized power plant. Um, it's a little more 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.120 complicated than that. Chris said that the idea itself was 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.919 pretty old. That's because the idea of the bloom box 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.640 is essentially it's a fuel cell or it's really a 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.440 stack of fuel cells. Yes. Um, that's sort of like 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.000 a battery. We didn't really discuss this in our batteries podcast, 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.159 but a battery is a group the cell individual cell 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.440 a battery is made up of, you know, can be 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.680 made up of several cells. Um. So in this case, yes, 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.200 it is like that in which it's got several cells inside. Yeah. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.600 So fuel cells and batteries share a lot in common, 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.400 all right. They both use chemical reactions to generate electricity. However, 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.400 with a battery, what you get is, generally speaking, you 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.040 have this chemical reaction that takes place withinside the inside 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:52.040 the battery generates the electricity, and eventually the chemicals run 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.400 out inside the battery, they convert into inert chemicals, at 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.120 least as far as electricity is concerned, right, and and 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.760 as far as even the rechargeable batteries have a limited lifespan. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:04.600 There's only so many times you can put it through 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.599 a charge cycle. You know, you charge it, discharge it, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.919 and it's it's eventually the chemicals inside are going to 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.159 wear out and you will have to recycle the battery. Now, 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.159 fuel cell is well, this is where the word fuel 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.080 comes in. You actually have to fuel it. You put 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.520 fuel into the fuel cell. It will use a chemical 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.840 reaction to generate electricity, but eventually that fuel will run 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.719 out and you will have to replenish it. Yes. Uh. 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.479 Now the fuel cells that a lot of us are familiar, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.279 whether hydrogen based fuel cells. That's the kind that you 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.039 hear of for hydrogen powered vehicles, yes, and for for 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.240 other devices to I mean, we've we've talked about portable 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:46.240 fuel cells which can run on on hydrogen and other fuels. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.680 And of course the big draw of hydrogen based fuel 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.440 cells is that the only emissions they create our heat 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:00.960 and water or water vapor um. The fuel cell of 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.440 the bloom Box is slightly different. It is it is 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:08.479 not a hydrogen based fuel cell. It uh, it's actually 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.560 kind of fuel cell. It's called a solid oxide fuel cell. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.080 If if you've listened to our fuel Cell podcast, you 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.280 probably remember that we did talk a little bit about 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:23.320 solidoxide fuel cells. Solid Oxide fuel cells are well, they're problematic. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:29.400 They can they can produce a lot of energy um. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.040 They have that that potential, but they have to operate 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.680 at high temperatures in order to Most fuel cells have 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.600 a range of temperatures at which they can operate um. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.000 And then outside that range they start to the efficiency 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.960 starts to decline, and then you get a certain temperature 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.720 where it just drops off in the fuel cell is 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.840 not gonna work for solid oxide fuel cells. That temperature 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.600 is quite high. UM. So that was a big problem, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.560 is that how do you create a some sort of 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.040 facility or some sort of ice that can get energy 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.000 out of a solid oxide fuel cell um without having 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.600 to require too much energy to get it heated up 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.240 or make it dangerous for humans to be around. And 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.840 Bloom Energy says that they've cracked that nut. It still 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.680 operates at a pretty high temperature, but it's not at 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.120 the you know, incredibly high temperatures that other pretty earlier 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:27.360 solid oxide fuel cells used. And it's kind of interesting 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.840 the if you were to, first of all, I guess 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.160 we should kind of describe what bloom box looks like. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:34.959 It looks like a it looks like a big, kind 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.520 of industrial sized refrigerator. You know. Now, if you were 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.280 to open up that refrigerator and take a look at 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.760 what was inside it, chiefly what you would see would 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:51.000 be stacks of tiles. These tiles are ceramic tiles, and 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.440 they are coated with two different what what bloom Energy 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:59.000 calls inks, a green ink and a black ink. And uh, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.520 it's interesting because that's actually the anode and the cathode, 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.760 which if you listen to our battery episode you've heard 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:10.440 those terms before. And Blue Energy actually has a cute 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.440 little animation. Did you see that how it works? Yeah, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.320 it's actually pretty helpful, So if you go to blue 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.520 Energy you can watch this animation. But essentially, the way 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.480 it works is that the bloom box has to heat up. 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.000 Once the temperature reaches a certain point, it starts to 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.680 draw oxygen in, which is attracted to the cathode side 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:37.480 of these tiles. Which is the black ink side. UM. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.760 Then you have to pump fuel into the bloom box. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:47.240 That fuel will mix with steam to become this reformed fuel, 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:53.200 which will get attracted to the anode side. The oxygen 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.440 from the cathode side will become ions. That means they 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.839 lose their electrons, and the electrons that that's what ends 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.480 up being the electricity. That's the electricity that flows out 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.400 of the bloom box into your home or your business 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.480 or whatever. And that oxygen will recombine with the reformed 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.959 fuel to form water and carbon dioxide a little bit 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.839 of carbon dioxide essentially, I think it was like one 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.559 part carbon dioxide to three parts water. The water would 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:24.360 then become the steam used in that in that that 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:29.319 fuel UM the creating the reformed fuel, that's what you 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.720 know that that water will just become steam. Again, more 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.440 fuel would come in and that would become the reform 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.480 fuel UM and the heat generated from this chemical reaction 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.719 would help sustain the bloom box, which is so the 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.720 h and twenty gallons of water that you talked about 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.920 it start up, that's what you need because you haven't 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.280 started the chemical reaction yet. Yes, so you have to 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.640 have some water to to get this started, and then 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.400 once it started, it should perpetuate itself as long as 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.040 there's more fuel coming into the system. So that's important 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.640 to remember. You have to have fuel of this to work. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.360 If you don't have fuel, then, uh, then nothing happens. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.800 So um, if you're using natural gas or biogas whatever 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:13.280 to fuel it, then the only emissions you get are 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.800 water and carbon dioxide and heat. And the reason for 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.160 that is because there's no combust combustion taking place, right 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.400 it's not igniting the fuel. It's there's a chemical reaction, 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.360 and that's why it's so much cleaner even though it's 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.800 a fossil fuel. You know, it's not like you're burning 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:34.000 coal to achieve you know, the the generation of power, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.040 so you still have a carbon footprint, but it's much 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.600 smaller than using traditional coal based power. And I think 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:47.480 that's why the the Bloom Energy Server is such a 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:52.160 hot topic, if you will, um, is that it seems 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.840 to be a much greener source of electricity than you know, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.920 uh than other sources of electricity. And the thing is 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:07.000 to um, it seems to be uh, the you know, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.280 the thing that we have all been striving for since 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.160 fuel cells were created more than a years ago at 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.120 this point. I mean. Another point that Bloom likes to 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.719 make is the fact that older fuel cell technology is 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.600 required hard to find an expensive metals to run, where 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.880 Bloom Energy is essentially using sand creating ceramic from sand 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:33.280 rather plentiful, insensive, no shortage of that. Yes, um, the 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.320 Sahara is missing several refrigerator sized uh events of sand. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.160 I figured they just went down to the local hardware 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.680 store and picked up a few things at playground sand 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:48.839 and yea anyway, No, but no, I mean assuming and 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.960 of course it's one of those things like hydrogen fuel 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.880 cells and cars. You know people people were so excited 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:55.839 about that, like, oh this is this is great. It's 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.560 just you know, water vapor and in five years will 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:01.680 all be dry having these cars powered by hydrogen. While 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.960 it's not that easy because you have to find the 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.960 source of the hydrogen, which is extremely challenging to do 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.400 on a cost effective basis. There's actually three main challenges. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.360 One is that you have to find that hydrogen or 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.120 you have to purify it, so that requires energy just 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.320 going into it. The second is that the precious metals 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.240 that you referred to, many of these fuel cells require platinum, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.400 which is not very plentiful or is it inexpensive. It's 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.560 quite expensive. And the third is the the fact that 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.680 there's no real infrastructure to support a fleet of hydrogen 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.480 powered vehicles. Right, You can't pick up another tank of 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.120 hydrogen in your local fill up station. Yeah, not for 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.200 most of them anyway. There are a few hydrogen stations, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.439 but there are very few and far between. UM So 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.679 you have to build out that infrastructure. You have to 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:56.840 find a maybe not cheap, but at least financially reasonable 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.040 way of getting at hydrogen, and you have to find 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.760 a way to um create electrolytes that don't necessarily rely 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.800 on on the precious metals. So, yeah, that's interesting that 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.559 the ceramic tile itself acts as the electrolyte. Yes, uh, 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.960 the ink acts as the anode and cathode, and the 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.800 ceramic tiles the electrolyte. That's to me, I think that's 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.880 the real breakthrough. And they used metal plates to separate 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.880 the various tiles from one another, but they were really 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.360 cheap metal alloys. They didn't need it because this was 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.800 just a separator. It wasn't an electrolyte, so they didn't 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.520 have to get like a platinum sheet. Uh. That being said, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.920 these energy servers are not cheap, No, but they're not. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.680 They're not so exorbitantly expensive that companies have not been 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.080 installing them. I've seen a cost. I've seen a couple 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.160 of price points for these energy servers, the lowest being 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.520 eight hundred thousand American dollars I've seen I've seen seven 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.640 eight hundred thousand dollars, although I've also seen reports that 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.320 they are more than a million dollars each. So I've 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.120 also heard that within within around five years, they pay 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.760 for themselves from energy savings. That's the other thing we 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.400 should point out is it's not just that it's a 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:09.960 greener technology, but it's also cheaper depending upon fuel prices. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.080 Because remember, you do have an ongoing expense. You have 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.000 to keep buying fuel to refuel the bloom box. So 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.880 as long as the fuel prices are lower than the 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.920 the fees you would pay the power company for electricity, 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:30.080 it makes financial sense to make this investment, especially if, uh, 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.000 you know, you don't have to if you have a 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.320 renewable energy source, because I have read reports that it 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.760 could use solar power to provide the power needed to 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.200 fuel the fuel cell. I don't know how that works. 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.120 I tried finding out where this comes from, because I 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.040 honestly do not understand how you could create the fuel 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.840 that has to reform with the water vapor. I doesn't 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.200 understand how that works with solar power. But supposedly it does, 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.200 at least that's what the founder who went on seexty 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:06.400 minutes said. Um, that that really perplexes me. I honestly 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.640 don't know the answer to that. Well, Um, this is uh, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.320 this is something that's been in development for about eight years, 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.520 nine years or so. Um, it's interesting how he came 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.080 up with the idea. Yeah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.760 The the fellow who who came up with this technology 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:30.840 was originally working on and it's a KR. Sridhar. Yes, 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.840 And I probably butchered that name, and I apologize because 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:38.160 again I have terrible times with names. But he was 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.560 working on a project with with NASA, was a Mars project, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.359 you know, trying to figure out the technical problems around 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.680 getting a human being to Mars. And one of those 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.280 is how do you carry enough oxygen to last for 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.640 the entire trip, and more importantly, how do you continue 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:01.600 to make oxygen once you get there. So he huge problematic, right, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.200 So he was working on a way of generating oxygen. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.200 When that project fell through, he decided instead of just saying, 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.280 oh well, that was a waste of time, he looked 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.439 at his research and then said, what if I reversed 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.879 this process. So instead of generating oxygen, you know, using 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.399 energy to create oxygen, what if I try and create 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.159 energy by using oxygen. And so the Bloom box is 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.440 reportedly just essentially a reversal of the process that he 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.440 had been working on for this Mars mission, which I 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.000 think is pretty interesting. It's a nice repurposing of technology. Certainly, 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.520 um and uh, they've already got some some pretty high 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:46.400 end customers to one that rhymes with Google. Yeah, it's 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:52.200 also one that rhymes with Schmi Bay um now, Staples, FedEx, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.760 Coca Cola, eBay, Google. These are all Walmart apparently is 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.960 working on powering stores with with the bloom energy server. Reportedly, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.000 Google was the very first customer purchasing for of these 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.159 servers for one of their data centers. And I have 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.439 not heard anything negative about the outcome. Of course, that 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.760 may be the effect of a very powerful pr effort, 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:18.639 but I don't I don't know. I haven't heard anything 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.920 positive or negative saying these are the greatest things since uh, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.199 sliced bread. Um. I haven't heard anything saying, you know, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.080 these things are a piece of johnk either. So it 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.720 seems that the experiment, if you will, is off to 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.879 a decent start. Yeah. I think it's as long as 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.080 we remember that. Um. The important thing I think to 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.040 remember in this case is that the fuel. Yeah, it is. 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.719 It is based on fuel. It's not some people were 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.400 thinking about as some sort of weird free energy device, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.680 like there was just this box. You would hook it 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.320 up to your house and it would magically produce electricity. Um. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.840 And and that just comes from a misunderstanding of how 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.440 fuel cells work. It's it's ignoring the fuel in you'll sell. 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.679 So keeping in mind that this is something where you 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.879 have to refuel it, either with natural gas or biogas 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.360 um or apparently solar power, though I still don't understand 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.920 how that works. Uh. If you keep that in mind, 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:19.159 then it may very well be a a nice step. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:24.320 It's still not. It's not. It's not necessarily as green 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:30.080 a response is, say, finding a renewable energy source empowering 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.359 your business with that. But even that has its problems, right, 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.760 because these renewable energy sources, the source is clean, but 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.359 the devices we use to harness it are not. Because 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.840 we've talked about that with solar panels and with even 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.920 the turbines that we use to gather wind energy. These 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.040 rely on very scarce materials, some of which are toxic 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.760 in nature. So it's um, you know, this is this 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.719 is one of those tough things, right, you know, just 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.280 sit there and try and figure out what's the best 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.320 option out of all the things that we have available 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.120 to us. Yeah. Not everyone can park their giant data 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.359 center on the shore of the on the banks of 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.480 the Columbia River and harness the water power or plan 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:15.640 a water born data center that harnesses the tides itself 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.320 to create power. That's pretty nifty. You haven't uh, the 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.320 the the the patent for that Google file, the patent 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.800 for that floating data center. It's actually really kind of fascinating. Yeah. Um, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.639 I'd like to think of the I T specialists station 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.119 on there is walking around with peg legs and saying, 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:37.119 are uh patchy, get down there and swap out this 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.760 hard drive. Um, sir, this this here server needs a 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:46.720 patch o. UM. So but yes, that's that's what they've 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.760 they've started with. Although UM I did find an article 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.639 in Fast Company from September twenty this year by Ariel 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.960 Schwartz tech journalists and um Ariel said that Bloom Energy 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.120 is in fact working on a home version of the unit, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.360 which I I had I remember hearing, but I'm glad 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.360 I found a source for it. It would cost, according 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:13.520 to miss Schwarts, about three thousand dollars UM and they 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.720 expect to release it in the near future. I don't 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.840 know what the near future specifically means, but I do 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.400 believe that they are working on something. You could use 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.280 this uh uh you know, a larger box the ones 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:31.199 that that uh power the uh industrial facilities to to 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.000 harness that in a local setting, but if you wanted 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.360 one to hook up to your house, you know, there 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.879 is an option for that supposedly coming in the future. 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.760 And by the way, UH Bloom Energy refers to this 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.760 as distributed generation, and they're saying that this is a 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:50.800 much more UH secure method of generating electricity. Of course, 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.320 the power outages in the grid in the Northeastern United 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.520 States illustrate the problems that can come from relying on 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.320 such a widespread grid. There have also been some very 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.359 famous ones in California. Oh yes, yes, Um, so this 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.880 could be a kind of an answer to that. Yeah, 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.760 if people adopted and if it if it's as successful 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.920 and and as efficient as it seems to be. Yeah, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.200 And the executives that Bluem Energy have even said that 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.600 the power companies themselves might invest in this. And as 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.240 you were saying, create neighborhood networks where each neighborhood has 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.800 its own bluem Energy server that's owned by the power company. 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.639 So you're still getting your electricity from the power company, 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.040 it's just instead of getting it from a coal burning 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.040 facility that is, you know, generating the power, you'd be 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:41.359 getting it from a bluem Energy server owned by that company. 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.280 So it'll be interesting to see. Yeah, I think, um, 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:49.320 I think as far as reducing emissions, it's potentially a 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.280 great thing, whether or not it will make financial sense 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.399 to move to that. See, that's the problem is that 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:59.840 sometimes what makes sense financially, unfortunately, does not measure up 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:03.679 with what makes sense in every other sense of the word. Right, 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.560 And of course, as we know, as we know, um, 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:09.639 you know, the boxes running on natural gas. Uh, fossil 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:14.280 fuels are finite, so bio gas I mean that that's 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.600 a little No. I'm sure we could probably find some 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:20.520 methane somewhere around here. I'm not saying don't don't make 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.800 comments about Josh, not his fault. I didn't name names. 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.640 You're the one in anyway, But no, I do think 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.720 that that would be an option. But you know, it's 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.040 going to need to be flexible, and apparently it seems 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.399 that Blue Energy has taken that into account. So maybe 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:41.880