1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Polette and 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as always his senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Hey McFly you bo Joe. Those boards don't work on 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: water unless you got power. So let's go straight into 9 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: a little listener mail. This listener mail comes from Jeremy. 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Jeremy says, Hi, my name is Jeremy, and I'm a 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: big fan of the show. After listening to the one 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: on plasma waist converters, I'm baffled as to why we 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: have not fully embraced this amazing technology. I was wondering 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: if you guys could do a show on something called 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: a bloom box. I don't know a lot of about it, 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: but I think it's about the size of an ice 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: chest and can power a home running off of natural gas. 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: It seemed almost too good to be true. Hopefully you 19 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: can talk about and keep up the good work. Thanks well, 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: thank you, Jeremy. We've decided we're going to start a 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: new series, not a new podcast, but a new series 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: within our podcasts, because we like to do that. This 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: was suggested by Mr Pellette himself. Indeed, it's demystifying the blank. 24 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: So in this case, we're demystifying the bloom box. Awesome. Um, 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: for a second there, I thought we were playing match game. 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: I thought we were playing a puzzle game, computer puzzle game, 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: graphically driven. We were de missedifying the bloom box. So 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: the bloom box, yes, actually bloom box is Did you 29 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: go to bloom Energy's website. Yes? I did, Yeah, so, 30 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: and I printed out the data sheet, which is apparently 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: printed on recycled paper, because it says that when I 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: printed it on it, Wow, I thought that was funny 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: that they included it. Anyway, So it is printed on 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: recycled paper. Yeah, they put it on the thing. But 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: how how do they know? I know, it's it's amazing, 36 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic but no, they This has been something 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: that's in the news. I actually wrote a blog post 38 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: about it a few months ago. Um, because they sort 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: of hit the scene at the right time. As a 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: matter of fact, there was a thing on sixty minutes 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: the TV news show here in America. UM about it 42 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: not too long before I wrote that, and it's sort 43 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: of been a buzzworthy topic, but in a way it's 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: kind of not new. Yeah. First of all, let's let's 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: go ahead and say that that bloom Energy refers to 46 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: them as bloom Energy servers. Yes, they're not bloom Boxes, 47 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: at least not on the website. I didn't see a 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: direct reference to bloom box from their corporate message. That 49 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: was sort of the media name I saw. Yeah, I 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: think people have It's sort of like the we mote 51 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: as you are, I want to call the we remote 52 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: by Nintendo. The Nintendo put the kai bosh on calling 53 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: it the we moat before its actual release, but people 54 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: still call it that anyway, especially Jonathan. They probably felt 55 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: we morse about it. Oh so anyway, Yes, bluem Energy 56 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: calls the device the Energy Server, and there are a 57 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: couple of different varieties. The one that that you were 58 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: talking about, Jeremy, is not the one that they've already 59 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: released and isn't used by people. What they the data 60 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: sheet eye downloaded is for the corporate version, which is 61 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: the e S five thousand Energy Server, and it is 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: a much larger device actually takes up uh reportedly about 63 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: the size of a parking space, hopefully it's not the 64 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: one parked in the CEO slot. It weighs approximately ten tons, 65 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: so this is a hefty piece of machinery. Yes, it 66 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: does in fact run on natural gas, although it can 67 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: use other biogas. UM. It does require some water, about 68 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty gallons of water force startup UM. 69 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: It can output about a hundred kill the lots, which 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: is pretty significant UM and that could be used to 71 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: power several homes yep as well. So UM, I'm sorry 72 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: you're still giving some specs. Well, I was looking for 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: anything else that that folks might be interested in, and 74 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: I would encourage you, if you're really interested in in 75 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: the bloom box to to download the data sheet because 76 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: they really made it very easy to to understand. It 77 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: can't operate in a grid, which is interesting too because 78 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: for large buildings like for example, warehouses where you might 79 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 1: need a whole lot of power, or data centers for example, 80 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: where you need lots of air conditioning to cool the 81 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: computers inside. UM, you can operate them in a in 82 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: a grid. UH. You can have your own local grid 83 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: if you will to power your industrial applications. Yeah, and 84 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: that was sort of the big news about the bloom 85 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: Box was that this was a device that could theoretically 86 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: allow people to get off the power grid entirely and 87 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: power their own homes with this little People were calling 88 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: it like essentially a portable power plan, yes, or a 89 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: a pint sized power plant. Um, it's a little more 90 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: complicated than that. Chris said that the idea itself was 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: pretty old. That's because the idea of the bloom box 92 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: is essentially it's a fuel cell or it's really a 93 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: stack of fuel cells. Yes. Um, that's sort of like 94 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: a battery. We didn't really discuss this in our batteries podcast, 95 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: but a battery is a group the cell individual cell 96 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: a battery is made up of, you know, can be 97 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: made up of several cells. Um. So in this case, yes, 98 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: it is like that in which it's got several cells inside. Yeah. 99 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: So fuel cells and batteries share a lot in common, 100 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: all right. They both use chemical reactions to generate electricity. However, 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: with a battery, what you get is, generally speaking, you 102 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: have this chemical reaction that takes place withinside the inside 103 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: the battery generates the electricity, and eventually the chemicals run 104 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: out inside the battery, they convert into inert chemicals, at 105 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: least as far as electricity is concerned, right, and and 106 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: as far as even the rechargeable batteries have a limited lifespan. 107 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: There's only so many times you can put it through 108 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: a charge cycle. You know, you charge it, discharge it, 109 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: and it's it's eventually the chemicals inside are going to 110 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: wear out and you will have to recycle the battery. Now, 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: fuel cell is well, this is where the word fuel 112 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: comes in. You actually have to fuel it. You put 113 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: fuel into the fuel cell. It will use a chemical 114 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: reaction to generate electricity, but eventually that fuel will run 115 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: out and you will have to replenish it. Yes. Uh. 116 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: Now the fuel cells that a lot of us are familiar, 117 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: whether hydrogen based fuel cells. That's the kind that you 118 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: hear of for hydrogen powered vehicles, yes, and for for 119 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: other devices to I mean, we've we've talked about portable 120 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: fuel cells which can run on on hydrogen and other fuels. 121 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: And of course the big draw of hydrogen based fuel 122 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: cells is that the only emissions they create our heat 123 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: and water or water vapor um. The fuel cell of 124 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: the bloom Box is slightly different. It is it is 125 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: not a hydrogen based fuel cell. It uh, it's actually 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: kind of fuel cell. It's called a solid oxide fuel cell. 127 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: If if you've listened to our fuel Cell podcast, you 128 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: probably remember that we did talk a little bit about 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: solidoxide fuel cells. Solid Oxide fuel cells are well, they're problematic. 130 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: They can they can produce a lot of energy um. 131 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: They have that that potential, but they have to operate 132 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: at high temperatures in order to Most fuel cells have 133 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: a range of temperatures at which they can operate um. 134 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: And then outside that range they start to the efficiency 135 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: starts to decline, and then you get a certain temperature 136 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: where it just drops off in the fuel cell is 137 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: not gonna work for solid oxide fuel cells. That temperature 138 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: is quite high. UM. So that was a big problem, 139 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: is that how do you create a some sort of 140 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: facility or some sort of ice that can get energy 141 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: out of a solid oxide fuel cell um without having 142 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: to require too much energy to get it heated up 143 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: or make it dangerous for humans to be around. And 144 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: Bloom Energy says that they've cracked that nut. It still 145 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: operates at a pretty high temperature, but it's not at 146 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: the you know, incredibly high temperatures that other pretty earlier 147 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: solid oxide fuel cells used. And it's kind of interesting 148 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: the if you were to, first of all, I guess 149 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: we should kind of describe what bloom box looks like. 150 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: It looks like a it looks like a big, kind 151 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: of industrial sized refrigerator. You know. Now, if you were 152 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: to open up that refrigerator and take a look at 153 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: what was inside it, chiefly what you would see would 154 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: be stacks of tiles. These tiles are ceramic tiles, and 155 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: they are coated with two different what what bloom Energy 156 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: calls inks, a green ink and a black ink. And uh, 157 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: it's interesting because that's actually the anode and the cathode, 158 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: which if you listen to our battery episode you've heard 159 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: those terms before. And Blue Energy actually has a cute 160 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: little animation. Did you see that how it works? Yeah, 161 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty helpful, So if you go to blue 162 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: Energy you can watch this animation. But essentially, the way 163 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: it works is that the bloom box has to heat up. 164 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: Once the temperature reaches a certain point, it starts to 165 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: draw oxygen in, which is attracted to the cathode side 166 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: of these tiles. Which is the black ink side. UM. 167 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: Then you have to pump fuel into the bloom box. 168 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: That fuel will mix with steam to become this reformed fuel, 169 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: which will get attracted to the anode side. The oxygen 170 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: from the cathode side will become ions. That means they 171 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: lose their electrons, and the electrons that that's what ends 172 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: up being the electricity. That's the electricity that flows out 173 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: of the bloom box into your home or your business 174 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: or whatever. And that oxygen will recombine with the reformed 175 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: fuel to form water and carbon dioxide a little bit 176 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: of carbon dioxide essentially, I think it was like one 177 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: part carbon dioxide to three parts water. The water would 178 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: then become the steam used in that in that that 179 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: fuel UM the creating the reformed fuel, that's what you 180 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: know that that water will just become steam. Again, more 181 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: fuel would come in and that would become the reform 182 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: fuel UM and the heat generated from this chemical reaction 183 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: would help sustain the bloom box, which is so the 184 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: h and twenty gallons of water that you talked about 185 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: it start up, that's what you need because you haven't 186 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: started the chemical reaction yet. Yes, so you have to 187 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: have some water to to get this started, and then 188 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: once it started, it should perpetuate itself as long as 189 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: there's more fuel coming into the system. So that's important 190 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: to remember. You have to have fuel of this to work. 191 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: If you don't have fuel, then, uh, then nothing happens. 192 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: So um, if you're using natural gas or biogas whatever 193 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: to fuel it, then the only emissions you get are 194 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: water and carbon dioxide and heat. And the reason for 195 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: that is because there's no combust combustion taking place, right 196 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: it's not igniting the fuel. It's there's a chemical reaction, 197 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: and that's why it's so much cleaner even though it's 198 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: a fossil fuel. You know, it's not like you're burning 199 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: coal to achieve you know, the the generation of power, 200 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: so you still have a carbon footprint, but it's much 201 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: smaller than using traditional coal based power. And I think 202 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: that's why the the Bloom Energy Server is such a 203 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: hot topic, if you will, um, is that it seems 204 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: to be a much greener source of electricity than you know, 205 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: uh than other sources of electricity. And the thing is 206 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: to um, it seems to be uh, the you know, 207 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: the thing that we have all been striving for since 208 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: fuel cells were created more than a years ago at 209 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: this point. I mean. Another point that Bloom likes to 210 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: make is the fact that older fuel cell technology is 211 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: required hard to find an expensive metals to run, where 212 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: Bloom Energy is essentially using sand creating ceramic from sand 213 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: rather plentiful, insensive, no shortage of that. Yes, um, the 214 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: Sahara is missing several refrigerator sized uh events of sand. 215 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: I figured they just went down to the local hardware 216 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: store and picked up a few things at playground sand 217 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: and yea anyway, No, but no, I mean assuming and 218 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: of course it's one of those things like hydrogen fuel 219 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: cells and cars. You know people people were so excited 220 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: about that, like, oh this is this is great. It's 221 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: just you know, water vapor and in five years will 222 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: all be dry having these cars powered by hydrogen. While 223 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: it's not that easy because you have to find the 224 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: source of the hydrogen, which is extremely challenging to do 225 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: on a cost effective basis. There's actually three main challenges. 226 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: One is that you have to find that hydrogen or 227 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: you have to purify it, so that requires energy just 228 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: going into it. The second is that the precious metals 229 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: that you referred to, many of these fuel cells require platinum, 230 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: which is not very plentiful or is it inexpensive. It's 231 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: quite expensive. And the third is the the fact that 232 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: there's no real infrastructure to support a fleet of hydrogen 233 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: powered vehicles. Right, You can't pick up another tank of 234 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: hydrogen in your local fill up station. Yeah, not for 235 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: most of them anyway. There are a few hydrogen stations, 236 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: but there are very few and far between. UM So 237 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: you have to build out that infrastructure. You have to 238 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: find a maybe not cheap, but at least financially reasonable 239 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: way of getting at hydrogen, and you have to find 240 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: a way to um create electrolytes that don't necessarily rely 241 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: on on the precious metals. So, yeah, that's interesting that 242 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: the ceramic tile itself acts as the electrolyte. Yes, uh, 243 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: the ink acts as the anode and cathode, and the 244 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: ceramic tiles the electrolyte. That's to me, I think that's 245 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: the real breakthrough. And they used metal plates to separate 246 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: the various tiles from one another, but they were really 247 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: cheap metal alloys. They didn't need it because this was 248 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: just a separator. It wasn't an electrolyte, so they didn't 249 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: have to get like a platinum sheet. Uh. That being said, 250 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: these energy servers are not cheap, No, but they're not. 251 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: They're not so exorbitantly expensive that companies have not been 252 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: installing them. I've seen a cost. I've seen a couple 253 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: of price points for these energy servers, the lowest being 254 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand American dollars I've seen I've seen seven 255 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand dollars, although I've also seen reports that 256 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: they are more than a million dollars each. So I've 257 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: also heard that within within around five years, they pay 258 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: for themselves from energy savings. That's the other thing we 259 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: should point out is it's not just that it's a 260 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: greener technology, but it's also cheaper depending upon fuel prices. 261 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: Because remember, you do have an ongoing expense. You have 262 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: to keep buying fuel to refuel the bloom box. So 263 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: as long as the fuel prices are lower than the 264 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: the fees you would pay the power company for electricity, 265 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: it makes financial sense to make this investment, especially if, uh, 266 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to if you have a 267 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: renewable energy source, because I have read reports that it 268 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: could use solar power to provide the power needed to 269 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: fuel the fuel cell. I don't know how that works. 270 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: I tried finding out where this comes from, because I 271 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: honestly do not understand how you could create the fuel 272 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: that has to reform with the water vapor. I doesn't 273 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: understand how that works with solar power. But supposedly it does, 274 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: at least that's what the founder who went on seexty 275 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: minutes said. Um, that that really perplexes me. I honestly 276 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that. Well, Um, this is uh, 277 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: this is something that's been in development for about eight years, 278 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: nine years or so. Um, it's interesting how he came 279 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: up with the idea. Yeah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. 280 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: The the fellow who who came up with this technology 281 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: was originally working on and it's a KR. Sridhar. Yes, 282 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: And I probably butchered that name, and I apologize because 283 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: again I have terrible times with names. But he was 284 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: working on a project with with NASA, was a Mars project, 285 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,359 Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out the technical problems around 286 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: getting a human being to Mars. And one of those 287 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: is how do you carry enough oxygen to last for 288 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: the entire trip, and more importantly, how do you continue 289 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: to make oxygen once you get there. So he huge problematic, right, 290 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: So he was working on a way of generating oxygen. 291 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: When that project fell through, he decided instead of just saying, 292 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: oh well, that was a waste of time, he looked 293 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: at his research and then said, what if I reversed 294 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: this process. So instead of generating oxygen, you know, using 295 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: energy to create oxygen, what if I try and create 296 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: energy by using oxygen. And so the Bloom box is 297 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: reportedly just essentially a reversal of the process that he 298 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: had been working on for this Mars mission, which I 299 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: think is pretty interesting. It's a nice repurposing of technology. Certainly, 300 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: um and uh, they've already got some some pretty high 301 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: end customers to one that rhymes with Google. Yeah, it's 302 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: also one that rhymes with Schmi Bay um now, Staples, FedEx, 303 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Coca Cola, eBay, Google. These are all Walmart apparently is 304 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: working on powering stores with with the bloom energy server. Reportedly, 305 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: Google was the very first customer purchasing for of these 306 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: servers for one of their data centers. And I have 307 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: not heard anything negative about the outcome. Of course, that 308 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: may be the effect of a very powerful pr effort, 309 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: but I don't I don't know. I haven't heard anything 310 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: positive or negative saying these are the greatest things since uh, 311 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: sliced bread. Um. I haven't heard anything saying, you know, 312 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: these things are a piece of johnk either. So it 313 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: seems that the experiment, if you will, is off to 314 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: a decent start. Yeah. I think it's as long as 315 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: we remember that. Um. The important thing I think to 316 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: remember in this case is that the fuel. Yeah, it is. 317 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: It is based on fuel. It's not some people were 318 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: thinking about as some sort of weird free energy device, 319 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: like there was just this box. You would hook it 320 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: up to your house and it would magically produce electricity. Um. 321 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: And and that just comes from a misunderstanding of how 322 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: fuel cells work. It's it's ignoring the fuel in you'll sell. 323 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: So keeping in mind that this is something where you 324 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: have to refuel it, either with natural gas or biogas 325 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: um or apparently solar power, though I still don't understand 326 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: how that works. Uh. If you keep that in mind, 327 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: then it may very well be a a nice step. 328 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: It's still not. It's not. It's not necessarily as green 329 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: a response is, say, finding a renewable energy source empowering 330 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: your business with that. But even that has its problems, right, 331 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: because these renewable energy sources, the source is clean, but 332 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: the devices we use to harness it are not. Because 333 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: we've talked about that with solar panels and with even 334 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: the turbines that we use to gather wind energy. These 335 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: rely on very scarce materials, some of which are toxic 336 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: in nature. So it's um, you know, this is this 337 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 1: is one of those tough things, right, you know, just 338 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: sit there and try and figure out what's the best 339 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: option out of all the things that we have available 340 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: to us. Yeah. Not everyone can park their giant data 341 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: center on the shore of the on the banks of 342 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: the Columbia River and harness the water power or plan 343 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: a water born data center that harnesses the tides itself 344 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: to create power. That's pretty nifty. You haven't uh, the 345 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: the the the patent for that Google file, the patent 346 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: for that floating data center. It's actually really kind of fascinating. Yeah. Um, 347 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: I'd like to think of the I T specialists station 348 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: on there is walking around with peg legs and saying, 349 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: are uh patchy, get down there and swap out this 350 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: hard drive. Um, sir, this this here server needs a 351 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: patch o. UM. So but yes, that's that's what they've 352 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: they've started with. Although UM I did find an article 353 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: in Fast Company from September twenty this year by Ariel 354 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Schwartz tech journalists and um Ariel said that Bloom Energy 355 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: is in fact working on a home version of the unit, 356 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: which I I had I remember hearing, but I'm glad 357 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: I found a source for it. It would cost, according 358 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: to miss Schwarts, about three thousand dollars UM and they 359 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: expect to release it in the near future. I don't 360 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: know what the near future specifically means, but I do 361 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: believe that they are working on something. You could use 362 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: this uh uh you know, a larger box the ones 363 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: that that uh power the uh industrial facilities to to 364 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: harness that in a local setting, but if you wanted 365 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: one to hook up to your house, you know, there 366 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: is an option for that supposedly coming in the future. 367 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, UH Bloom Energy refers to this 368 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: as distributed generation, and they're saying that this is a 369 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: much more UH secure method of generating electricity. Of course, 370 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: the power outages in the grid in the Northeastern United 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: States illustrate the problems that can come from relying on 372 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: such a widespread grid. There have also been some very 373 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: famous ones in California. Oh yes, yes, Um, so this 374 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: could be a kind of an answer to that. Yeah, 375 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: if people adopted and if it if it's as successful 376 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: and and as efficient as it seems to be. Yeah, 377 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: And the executives that Bluem Energy have even said that 378 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: the power companies themselves might invest in this. And as 379 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: you were saying, create neighborhood networks where each neighborhood has 380 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: its own bluem Energy server that's owned by the power company. 381 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: So you're still getting your electricity from the power company, 382 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: it's just instead of getting it from a coal burning 383 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: facility that is, you know, generating the power, you'd be 384 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: getting it from a bluem Energy server owned by that company. 385 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see. Yeah, I think, um, 386 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: I think as far as reducing emissions, it's potentially a 387 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: great thing, whether or not it will make financial sense 388 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: to move to that. See, that's the problem is that 389 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: sometimes what makes sense financially, unfortunately, does not measure up 390 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: with what makes sense in every other sense of the word. Right, 391 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: And of course, as we know, as we know, um, 392 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: you know, the boxes running on natural gas. Uh, fossil 393 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: fuels are finite, so bio gas I mean that that's 394 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: a little No. I'm sure we could probably find some 395 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: methane somewhere around here. I'm not saying don't don't make 396 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: comments about Josh, not his fault. I didn't name names. 397 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: You're the one in anyway, But no, I do think 398 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: that that would be an option. But you know, it's 399 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: going to need to be flexible, and apparently it seems 400 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: that Blue Energy has taken that into account. So maybe 401 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: uh facilities located near landfills which are generating methane, and boy, 402 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: how do you do they? Um? I used to play 403 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: disc golf at a park that was next to a 404 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: landfill and they had those you know, the pipes where 405 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: they vent the gas. Well, let's be fair. Methane itself 406 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: before anyone writes in, is has no odor on its own, 407 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: but it does come with some other stuff that. Yes, yes, 408 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: the methane that you're familiar with. The odor comes from 409 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: either other materials or it's an odor that has specifically 410 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: been included by the gas company so that if there 411 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: were a guest like you would be able to detect it. 412 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: And we are aware of that, So please don't email 413 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: us all right, So anyway, let's wrap this up. This 414 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: was demystifying the bloom box. If you guys have a 415 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: particular topic you would like us to demystify, So it's 416 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: really kind of exploring something and discussing how it really works. Um, 417 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: let us know. One of the things we were talking 418 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: about possibly tackling in the future is, for example, the segue. Yes. 419 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: So if you have a topic that you would like 420 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: us to demystify, let us know on either Twitter or 421 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: Facebook are handled. 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