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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This

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Speaker 1: is Col's Week in Review with Ryan col Cala. Here's Cal,

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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, It's a rainy Tuesday here in bos Angelus, Montana.

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Speaker 1: Another fantastic interview episode coming at you here on the

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Speaker 1: Call of the Wild podcast feed. This week, we've got

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Speaker 1: the East Foundation. If you got long memories, you may

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Speaker 1: recall some previous conversations and mentions with the East Foundation,

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Speaker 1: specifically around ocelot work. Today we will probably talk about oslots,

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Speaker 1: which is not an African jungle animal. We have them

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Speaker 1: here in the United States, just barely, and we're probably

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Speaker 1: going to talk about an interesting new threat to wildlife

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Speaker 1: and cattle. And really that's kind of the intersection of

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Speaker 1: the East Foundation, which their tagline here is we promote

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Speaker 1: the advancement of land stewardship through ranching, science and education.

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Speaker 1: We say it all the time here on the Cow's

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Speaker 1: Week in Review podcast. Tall grass makes fat cattle, and

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Speaker 1: tall grass is also great for your pollinators, your big

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Speaker 1: gnarley mule deer bucks or antelope bucks. Fire resistance, drought tolerance,

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Speaker 1: keeping those nasty invasive species out is just a healthy

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Speaker 1: landscape with me today is James Powell, director of Communications

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Speaker 1: for East Foundation, as well as Jason Sawyer, who's the

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Speaker 1: Chief Science Officer, which is a heck of a title.

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Speaker 1: Jason and Jordan, I know we've been trying to pull

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Speaker 1: this together for a while. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: making the time, and can you tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about who you are and what the East Foundation does?

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, we're sure glad to be with you today.

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Speaker 3: Again, it's been a minute since I think Neil visited

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Speaker 3: with y'all a little while back. The East Foundation, as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned, our mission is to promote the advancement of

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Speaker 3: land stewardship.

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Speaker 2: But really what the East.

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Speaker 3: Foundation is is a private, working landowner that operates cattle

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Speaker 3: ranching and maintains landscapes really for the benefit of both

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Speaker 3: productive ranching operations as well as wildlife conservation.

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Speaker 2: Our operations are all in Deep South Texas.

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Speaker 3: We operate on about two hundred and seventeen thousand acres

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Speaker 3: of private rangeland it's one hundred percent rangeland no cultivation,

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Speaker 3: no you know, real improvements other than water developments and fences.

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Speaker 3: And really our overall purpose is to maximize the long

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Speaker 3: term value of these landscapes and enable better decision making

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Speaker 3: by stewards of working lands, including ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And when you say working lands, I've been, you know,

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Speaker 1: a guest invited to go check out some different conservation

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Speaker 1: programs and projects on big properties in Texas. But I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily call them working land. They're beautiful parks what

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Speaker 1: might be more appropriate description. But when you say working lands,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, sure, you know, for US, working lands is as

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Speaker 3: that would imply as are landscapes that produce. They do

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Speaker 3: their jobs, they're put to work. They provide Now, they

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Speaker 3: provide for wildlife habitat, which is an important value proposition

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Speaker 3: in many ways, but they also provide for food production,

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Speaker 3: they provide for open space, and really, I think the

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Speaker 3: notion of working lands is that they are intentionally productive.

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Speaker 3: We put them to work. Now, there's certainly a place

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Speaker 3: for preserves and refuges, and you know, areas that we

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Speaker 3: would say are not working lands, they've been taken out

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Speaker 3: of production for some other purpose. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: not not trying to cast any stones at that, but

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Speaker 3: the majority of land in the United States is working land,

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Speaker 3: and most of the wildlife habitat of the United states

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Speaker 3: occurs on working lands, and.

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Speaker 2: So it's really that confluence.

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Speaker 3: You know, the conservation of these things is how do

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Speaker 3: we achieve the wise use of these resources to maximize

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Speaker 3: their long term value? And if they don't produce anything,

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Speaker 3: then someone has to continuously invest external capital to sustain them,

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Speaker 3: Whereas the goal maybe of a working landscape is that

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Speaker 3: through its provisioning capability, it self generates the capital required

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Speaker 3: to sustain its multiple use. That's probably not a dictionary definition,

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Speaker 3: but certainly maybe my interpretation of what working lands are

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Speaker 3: as opposed as you said, you know, a park or

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Speaker 3: a refuge or a preserve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably taking a crop of some sort off

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Speaker 1: of working lands, be it crop of calves, crop of lambs, or.

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Speaker 2: Timber. Yeah, yeah, yes, sir.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And and so that's really kind of the context

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Speaker 3: of of what at least we mean when we say

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Speaker 3: working lands that they produce a product, you know, and

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Speaker 3: that production is necessarily aligned with the other amenities that

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Speaker 3: that landscape provides, the other ecosystem services that people talk

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Speaker 3: about quite a bit, and you know, that includes the

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Speaker 3: course wildlife habitat, and it includes game species that are

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Speaker 3: a direct value contributor to those landscapes. In many cases

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Speaker 3: it includes non game species that provide other value and

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Speaker 3: and you know, have amenity value as well as conservation,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to say, you know, ethical and aesthetic value,

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Speaker 3: and all of those things need to come together and

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Speaker 3: operate conjointly. And we feel like there's pretty good evidence

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Speaker 3: that stewarded appropriately, that working landscapes actually can confer the

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Speaker 3: best habitat and the best opportunities for those things to

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Speaker 3: be sustained into the future.

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Speaker 1: So what's the rule that the East Foundation is focusing on?

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Speaker 1: What's the history there?

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Speaker 2: Well, a little bit of history.

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Speaker 3: It kind of informs I guess our views of what

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Speaker 3: we're here to do and why we're here. You know,

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Speaker 3: the East family put this land together over a couple

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Speaker 3: of generations, and they did that with livestock production. Now,

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Speaker 3: they had a deep interest and passion for wildlife, and

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Speaker 3: they personally enjoyed the wildlife on their properties, but they

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Speaker 3: made the decision to keep these lands intact by placing

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Speaker 3: them into a foundation that would outlive themselves right and

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Speaker 3: outlive everybody else.

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Speaker 2: And so our charge.

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Speaker 3: Is to continue to ranch and that is part of

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Speaker 3: our charge, and to do that in a way that

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Speaker 3: benefits wildlife and the land resource itself and provides for

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Speaker 3: scientific research and education to empower future generations of land stewards.

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Speaker 2: So that's a little bit about our.

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Speaker 3: History how we came into being, but it also informs

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Speaker 3: very much our mission and how we intend to accomplish that.

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Speaker 3: So we operate a working cattle operation. We're primarily a

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Speaker 3: calcalf operator. We retain ownership on some of the calves

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Speaker 3: that we produce as uterlines when forage conditions allow, and

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Speaker 3: in that working ranch context, we also seek to secure

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Speaker 3: the best habitat potential for the game species and non

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Speaker 3: game species that inhabit our landscapes.

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Speaker 2: You know, South Texas is pretty.

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Speaker 3: Well known for abundant white tail deer populations for you know,

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Speaker 3: important game birds like bob white quail. We have, you know,

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Speaker 3: arguably the largest wild population of bob white quail left

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Speaker 3: in the United States in the sandsheet of South Texas.

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Speaker 3: We also are faced with some interesting newcomers relatively speaking

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Speaker 3: to the landscape and Nilgai antelope, which are an incredibly

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Speaker 3: interesting species that seem to have filled an ecological niche

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Speaker 3: in South Texas. Their range doesn't extend much north of

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Speaker 3: Corpus Christi Texas, so they stayed very far south, but

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Speaker 3: they're native to India. They were introduced into South Texas

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Speaker 3: about one hundred years ago, and that population has persisted

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Speaker 3: and become unimportant resource in the region. We're also fortunate,

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Speaker 3: depending on who you ask, they may disagree with our fortune,

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Speaker 3: but to have some notable endangered species present on our landscapes,

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Speaker 3: like ocelots that I know you've talked about before with

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Speaker 3: Ease foundations. And an interesting thing to note there is

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Speaker 3: that you know the presence of these endangered species, we

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Speaker 3: view that as a responsibility, right they're there, that we

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Speaker 3: hold those wildlife in the public trust. The public depends

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Speaker 3: on us as lands too to sustain those populations. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's a responsibility that we have. But interestingly, cattle have

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Speaker 3: been present on this landscape for about three or.

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Speaker 2: Four hundred years, and.

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Speaker 3: We would say that part of the reason that oslots

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Speaker 3: still call that ranch home is because it has been

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Speaker 3: a cattle ranch and it hasn't.

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Speaker 2: Been converted into other use, and.

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Speaker 3: That landscape still because of ranching, really has remained intact.

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Speaker 3: And so we actually think that's a really positive example

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Speaker 3: and maybe the misunderstood example of the importance of working

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Speaker 3: lands and conservation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like Jason said that that ranch, the El Salis

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Speaker 4: is right on the coast near Port Mansfield. If it

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Speaker 4: wasn't a working cattle ranch as we're running it right now,

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Speaker 4: that land would have been prime for development, could have

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Speaker 4: easily been converted just outside of Port Mansfield into subdivisions

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Speaker 4: and other highest best use you know in air quotes ways,

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Speaker 4: and those oscelots that are there, some of the last

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Speaker 4: that are in the state of Texas in the US,

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Speaker 4: probably wouldn't be there anymore if it wasn't a cattle ranch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I was just in d C the

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Speaker 1: other week and it was chatting with a lot of

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Speaker 1: members of the egg community that were in the same

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Speaker 1: same room. And you know, I think right now there's

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Speaker 1: a real heightened awareness between the hunting side of the world,

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Speaker 1: the outdoors public land folks that we need to really

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Speaker 1: get some common language with with the egg producers. Protecting

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Speaker 1: those big family ranches is critical to long term wildlife

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Speaker 1: and habitat and you know, among many other things, right like,

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Speaker 1: we want to save ranching and wildlife, and in order

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Speaker 1: to save wildlife, you got to save ranching too, right.

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Speaker 3: We would certainly agree with that that these things fit

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Speaker 3: together hand and glove. You know, it's not one opposed

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Speaker 3: to the other, or that they're held in tension. And

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Speaker 3: the viability of these landscapes is equally dependent on wildlife

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Speaker 3: value and livestock production value. In other words, if we

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Speaker 3: remove one of those, the other is likely to fail.

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Speaker 3: And so part of part of our objective, both as

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Speaker 3: stewards and operators as well as as researchers and educators,

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Speaker 3: is continuously evaluating and innovating how we best achieve those goals.

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Speaker 3: What decisions should we make. What's the best decision to

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Speaker 3: achieve these outcomes? And we don't always know, so we

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Speaker 3: do experiments and try to figure it out. And you know,

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Speaker 3: this notion of continuous improvement is also important there as

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Speaker 3: we think about the future, whether it's of you know,

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Speaker 3: ranching as a cultural activity or as a food producing activity,

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Speaker 3: or hunting as a cultural activity or a food producing activity. Right,

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Speaker 3: they share many common features and they share the same

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Speaker 3: piece of ground, and so it's in all of our

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Speaker 3: best interests to make sure that we make the wisest

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Speaker 3: decisions about being able to do those things together. For

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Speaker 3: a very long time, you know, for forever hopefully.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, you know, the wildlife world, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: on the on the public land side of the fence,

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Speaker 1: maximizing returns for this season can have very detrimental effects

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Speaker 1: on the next season and the season after that, especially

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Speaker 1: taking in environmental factors. There's no difference on the private

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Speaker 1: side of the fence. If you're a cattle producer and

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Speaker 1: you overload the ranch trying to get the best return

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Speaker 1: you can for this season, well that could set up

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Speaker 1: the next season for failure or the next generation on

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Speaker 1: that place for failure.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: You know, we have research on like quail, right, Jason

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Speaker 4: mentioned Bob White quail in Texas. A lot of our

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Speaker 4: research and Jason can go more into this. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're doing fifty plus projects right now, research projects at

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Speaker 4: any given time, game species, non game grazing strategy, things

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Speaker 4: like that, and there are a lot of that research

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Speaker 4: is at the intersection of ranching and wildlife management. We

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Speaker 4: talked you mentioned harvest there cal and one of our

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Speaker 4: studies on Bob White quell is sustainable harvest of Bob

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Speaker 4: White quell. You know, one of the prescriptions in South

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Speaker 4: Texas has always been well, you can harvest twenty percent

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Speaker 4: of the quail every year and that'll be sustainable in perpetuity.

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Speaker 4: But no one really ever had set that up as

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Speaker 4: a true experiment in South Texas to prove whether that

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Speaker 4: was actually true or not. And so a lot of

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Speaker 4: the some of the folks on Jason's team are testing

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Speaker 4: things like that, like just how much harvest pressure can

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Speaker 4: a bob white quail population handle in working ranch land

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Speaker 4: South Texas landscape or not.

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Speaker 1: A good good friend of mine, old T Edward Nickens,

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Speaker 1: Eddie Nickins, I know, has written an article or two

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Speaker 1: on some of the quail stuff, And man, if you

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Speaker 1: look at how much money goes in per bird in

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Speaker 1: a lot of famous quail areas in the US, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing that it really boils down to a handful

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Speaker 1: of things, right, like on that healthy habitat. Everything else

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Speaker 1: is kind of marginal returns if you're not investing in

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Speaker 1: that habitat and habitat management, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Well, and you know, that's been one of the really

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Speaker 3: interesting evolutions. And maybe you know a role that we

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Speaker 3: feel like is very important for us is you know,

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Speaker 3: we feel a responsibility to do these things we feel

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Speaker 3: responsible to understand more about better decision making for stewardship,

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Speaker 3: but we also have to be relevant and so doing

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Speaker 3: that in the context of a working cattle operation, and

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Speaker 3: doing that at scale on Rangeland in South Texas is

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Speaker 3: also really important. And so this our overarching COIL projects.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that's unique perhaps about us doing

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Speaker 3: those things is that we're deploying that at operational scale,

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Speaker 3: So that controlled experiment where we can compare a twenty

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Speaker 3: percent very strictly executed twenty percent harvest quota against non

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Speaker 3: hunted areas with grazing, you know, interspersed into that, we're

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Speaker 3: able to do that at you know, right now, we

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Speaker 3: have about thirty five thousand acres in the hunted treatment

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Speaker 3: and about the same out in the reference sites or

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Speaker 3: the controls the unhunted areas, all.

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Speaker 2: Of which are subject to cattle operations.

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Speaker 3: And so at that scale, right we start to really

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Speaker 3: understand the landscape level impacts on populations and make better

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Speaker 3: decisions for individual landowners, you know, give them the ability

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Speaker 3: to use information well as well as informed regional trends,

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Speaker 3: and you know, and that's something that's difficult for many

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Speaker 3: others to do within the constraints of their own systems,

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Speaker 3: and so the scale of work is really important in

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Speaker 3: the duration. You know, quail populations are a great example, right,

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Speaker 3: that's a boom and bus cycle, I mean, and a

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Speaker 3: few inches of rainfall at the right time of the

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Speaker 3: year is a huge difference maker every year. And so

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Speaker 3: for us be it able to evaluate these things over

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Speaker 3: long periods of time. So we're about eight years in

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Speaker 3: on this sustainable coil harvest project and to be able

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Speaker 3: to execute that over long periods of time to really

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Speaker 3: understand these long term impacts, as you mentioned, is also

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Speaker 3: we think of a vital element of the work.

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Speaker 1: That we do and it's you know, in research that

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Speaker 1: can be applied at least to some degree everywhere. But

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Speaker 1: you're nimble enough with your operation to actually be able

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Speaker 1: to implement this year over year and see what the

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Speaker 1: results are, which is super cool.

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Speaker 3: And you know, one of the interesting things that comes

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Speaker 3: out of work like that kind of the intention that

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Speaker 3: we have and how we do that is as James

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Speaker 3: mentioned that you know, this notion of the intersection of

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Speaker 3: livestock production and habitat for wildlife is that you know,

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Speaker 3: quail do better with some grazing pressure they like a

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Speaker 3: mid serial stage rangeland you know, and they need room

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Speaker 3: to navigate and room to operate. And they they are

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Speaker 3: food sources. They want some diversity there. And we can

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Speaker 3: actually promote the beneficial aspects of habitat for quail with

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Speaker 3: properly applied grazing. And so the removal of grazing completely

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Speaker 3: from our landscapes over time is likely detrimental to quail abundance,

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Speaker 3: not positive for it. And so again a great example

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Speaker 3: of how, you know, all things work together for good

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Speaker 3: when we have to kind of keep our eye on

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Speaker 3: the ball, you know, and don't forsake one for the

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Speaker 3: pursuit of the other.

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Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time in various ways, right,

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Speaker 1: But you know I'd carry the label of a hunter, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of hunters out there that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be associated with. And ranching and farming. You can

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Speaker 1: see that pretty plainly looking across to let's just say

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Speaker 1: a bad neighbor's fence, right and you're like, well, things

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Speaker 1: are going well over there, right, And why is that?

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Speaker 1: So when you have a good model, especially when it's replicable, accessible,

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Speaker 1: it can be really contagious, right In a.

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Speaker 2: Good way volunteer your point.

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Speaker 3: You know, we can all look around and we try

301
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Speaker 3: really hard to kind of operate with the mindset of

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Speaker 3: what I said, how do we enable better decision making?

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Speaker 3: And first and foremost, we want to make better decisions.

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Speaker 3: We want to do the best we can do, and

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Speaker 3: we need better information in order to make better decisions.

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Speaker 3: And that kind of fuels our science. You know, what

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Speaker 3: questions should we ask? Well, the things that matter that

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Speaker 3: make better help us make the best decision. And when

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Speaker 3: we look, you know, we drive down the highway and

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Speaker 3: you look over somebody else's fence, and it's pretty easy

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Speaker 3: to ranch their country for them from your your windshield.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: And or like I said, you you know that there

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Speaker 3: might be folks that that hunt that maybe don't don't

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Speaker 3: do it in a way that's as good as it

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Speaker 3: ought to be for the betterment of the resource and

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Speaker 3: maybe even for themselves. But you know, we try pretty

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Speaker 3: hard to say, you know, it's not I would never

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Speaker 3: I would never kick another man's dog, you know, And

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Speaker 3: I would never presume to tell you what you ought

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Speaker 3: to do. However, I think that when we do look

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Speaker 3: across that other that other fence and think you know

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Speaker 3: that they're having a tough time, that country is in

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Speaker 3: tough shape, or it looks like a series of decisions

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Speaker 3: that went wrong. What drove them to that? Why is

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Speaker 3: it that way to? You know, you asked that question,

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Speaker 3: why why is it that way? And can we then

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Speaker 3: take that on and think about, Okay, somebody might have

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Speaker 3: made a series or felt forced into a series of

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Speaker 3: decisions that ended up being detrimental to the future of

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Speaker 3: their operation. Is there a way that we could could

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Speaker 3: generate information that would help them make a better decision

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Speaker 3: next time? Can that ranch be healed, you know, by

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Speaker 3: making a series of better decisions because they're better informed

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Speaker 3: going forward. And you know, that's the amazing thing about

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Speaker 3: most of these landscapes is that that you can start

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Speaker 3: making some different decisions and change the future. Sure of that,

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Speaker 3: Rangeland I mean it is within our capacity to do that,

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Speaker 3: And that's pretty powerful.

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Speaker 1: I imagine there there's producers out there as well who

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Speaker 1: are like, I want to run this many head of

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Speaker 1: cattle on this much acreage? Can you help me do that?

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Speaker 2: You know that that does come up quite a bit.

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Speaker 3: And uh, and so we're also pretty honest about that.

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Speaker 2: You know, here's here's a way.

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Speaker 3: And we're continuously working on methods to better assess our

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Speaker 3: own capacity. You know, so, what is the capacity of

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Speaker 3: our of our land to support cattle populations, deer populations,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. How do we better assess that so that

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Speaker 3: we are more appropriately applying implementing population management and lifestock

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Speaker 3: management on the landscape. And yes, people frequently find themselves

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Speaker 3: in a situation where they say, well.

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Speaker 2: I've done the math.

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Speaker 3: I have two thousand acres of rangeland in a twenty

355
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Speaker 3: inch rainfall zone, and I need to run three thousand cows.

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Speaker 2: On this in order to pay bills.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's not going to happen, you know, And so

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Speaker 3: are there ways for them to rethink or reinvent the

359
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Speaker 3: business where they're better able to match their utilization with

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Speaker 3: the resources they have. And you know, and sometimes the

361
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Speaker 3: honest truth is is that they have a mental model,

362
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Speaker 3: right that they have to do a certain thing, and

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Speaker 3: maybe what we need is to help them see that,

364
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Speaker 3: you know, they could innovate and find a different approach

365
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Speaker 3: that allowed them to operate more appropriately within the capacity

366
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Speaker 3: of the ranch. That's a hard thing, you know, that's

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00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 3: a really hard thing. But it's definitely something that comes

368
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Speaker 3: up quite and you know, and we face that ourselves.

369
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Speaker 3: I mean, we you know, there's a lot of incentive

370
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Speaker 3: to increase inventory if you're a cattle operator, but we

371
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Speaker 3: also recognize that there's an optimization point and finding that

372
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 3: is the real challenge, that that's the goal. And so

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Speaker 3: you know, again we face the same challenges and problems

374
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Speaker 3: as others, so we at least understand some of those

375
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Speaker 3: things that are driving decisions and how to be on guard,

376
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Speaker 3: you know, and not let yourself get fooled into a

377
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Speaker 3: decision that seems appropriate for today but maybe detrimental for tomorrow.

378
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Speaker 1: We were hiking a ranch in Sonora one time for

379
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Speaker 1: Col's deer and a friend of mine. You know, it

380
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: was similar to summer Texas, you know, real real brushy

381
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Speaker 1: and everything sticks you And a friend of mine said, man,

382
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Speaker 1: what would this place be like without cattle? And I said,

383
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Speaker 1: I don't think we'd know, because I don't think we

384
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Speaker 1: could hike through any of.

385
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Speaker 2: It, right, right, right.

386
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Speaker 3: And you know, it's like wildfire, you know, I mean,

387
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: prescribed fire is good, wildfire is bad. And you know,

388
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: all things can be overdone, but they can also be underdone.

389
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: You know, the removal of fire or the removal of

390
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: grazing altogether is often detrimental as well.

391
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I think in this case, having that

392
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Speaker 1: natural in quotes deforestation.

393
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Speaker 2: Was good.

394
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: It was the only thing that was up that landscape

395
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: to any other sort of forbes.

396
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Speaker 3: Right, So right, how you create opportunity for the species

397
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 3: that those that those deer depend.

398
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Speaker 1: On, you know, Yeah, because they don't live just in

399
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: the brush, neither did the turkeys or the quail. They

400
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: every part of their day for all those species, as

401
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: they get out of that stuff into the grass for

402
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: at least a little.

403
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: Bit, Yeah, go go find the goodies where they can

404
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: find them, you know. So it's interesting that, you know,

405
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: there's currently pretty big issue that I think many people

406
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: have forgotten was a problem at one point in time,

407
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: and that's New World screwworms, and and the people who

408
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 3: do have some scarce memory of that pest perceive it

409
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: as a livestock problem. You know that that was a

410
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: problem in the you know, early nineties, well, late eighteen hundreds,

411
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: early nineteen hundreds, before it's eradication in the nineteen sixties

412
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 3: in the US, people you know, perceived that was a

413
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: livestock operators problem and don't recognize that the enormous impact

414
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: that that had on wildlife populations. You know, screwworms in

415
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: Texas in the nineteen fifties, eighty plus percent of the

416
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: fawn crop would be lost every year to screwworms. And

417
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: you know, an adult deer succumbed to as well bucks,

418
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: you know, during rut when they injure themselves, become susceptible and.

419
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: Perish from that.

420
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: And so you know, after screwworms were eradicated in Texas,

421
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: the deer population doubled within the next five years and

422
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: has quinn tippled since that time, went from you know

423
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: about you know a million and a half maybe some

424
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: some estimates under a million white tailed deer in Texas

425
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: to almost six million today. And you know, is that

426
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: all because the screwworm eradication. No, but certainly that was

427
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 3: a significant depressant on those populations.

428
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: That's been relieved and and again.

429
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: People perceive it as a livestock problem, but kind of like,

430
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: you know, the ranchers and the hunters are really all

431
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: on the same side here.

432
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, that parasite can infect any any warm blooded mammal.

433
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: I mean it.

434
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Speaker 4: You know what we talked about, Nilghai, We've talked about

435
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 4: you know, there's there's a feral hog issue now, so

436
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 4: you've got a bunch of feral hogs that could be

437
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 4: vectors for those screw worms. They can even infect humans.

438
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 4: So down in Central America, where it's always still been around,

439
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 4: there are non human infection cases. And it doesn't always

440
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 4: have to be a gaping open wound. At Jason's point,

441
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: it might just be a tick bite that becomes infected

442
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 4: by a screwworm and then within a matter of days

443
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 4: you have a serious, even life threatening infection on your hands.

444
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: And you know where this.

445
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 4: Is something that's kind of, like Jason said, it's been forgotten,

446
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: but all of a sudden, it's a big deal again.

447
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 4: You're seeing it and then on Fox News and you're

448
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 4: hearing the Secretary of Agriculture talk about it now all

449
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: of a sudden, because it's like it's coming north again

450
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 4: out of Central America into into Mexico. I know Jason

451
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 4: and his science team are tracking this very carefully because,

452
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: as he said, it's not only going to potentially affect

453
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: us as producers, it could devastate wildlife populations and in

454
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: South Texas or as far north as those will be

455
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 4: able to move. Right, it's a big potential problem, not

456
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 4: just for ranchers but also for hunters.

457
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: And so where where's East Foundation weighing in on this?

458
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: You're you're monitoring, Jason, but are there some potential projects here?

459
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we are trying really hard to be

460
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: a voice and also trying to connect. You know, thankfully,

461
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: USDA zag Research Service has never given up the fight

462
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: on screw worms and they have an entomology unit a

463
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: Llow here in Texas who works primarily on on these

464
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: sorts of insect pests and tick pests, and they have

465
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: sustained research over the last fifty years to continue to

466
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: develop methods to you know, do surveillance and response and

467
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: produce the sterile flies that are used to combat screwworms

468
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: and eradicate eradicate that pest. So we've made sure to

469
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 3: engage with them and see how we might be able

470
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: to engage in research programs with them to increase surveillance

471
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: capabilities and innovate technologies for surveillance of the pest, because

472
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: you have to know it's there before you can do

473
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: anything else about it. Certainly we want to be engaged

474
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: with with other organizations and inform landowners and operators again,

475
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 3: create that awareness that this is certainly a livestock problem,

476
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 3: but not only a livestock problem. You know, you mentioned

477
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: being on a property in Texas that maybe had dedicated

478
00:34:53,880 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: themselves exclusively to wildlife management. Those folks are very vulnerable

479
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: here and often again they don't perceive the threat because

480
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 3: they associate it with livestock, and so our engagement here

481
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 3: really is to understand the problem, enable better decision making

482
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 3: by informing folks seeing beyond the obvious and recognizing the

483
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: eminence of the threat and its importance in the United

484
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 3: States to our food supplies but also to wildlife conservation.

485
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: You know, we talked about the last remaining population of

486
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: oslots you know in deep South Texas. Well, they get

487
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: tick bites too. They are susceptible to this as well.

488
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: You know, it's not just a.

489
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: Livestock problem, and so so you know, I'll be honest

490
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: with you, I hope and pray that we know have

491
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: the opportunity to do direct research about treatment for screw.

492
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: Worms on our operations. Yeah, I hope they don't ever

493
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: get here because they don't get here.

494
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 4: And the big thing that, you know, the thing that

495
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 4: needs to be encouraged right now, is the redevelopment and

496
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: restarting of sterile fly production production facilities. So the way

497
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: that this was fought back was a couple of I

498
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: mean it was genius, really, a couple of scientists came

499
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: up with this idea where you breed sterile male screwworm flies.

500
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 4: They then out compete the males in the wild to

501
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 4: breed with the females in the wild. And so by

502
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 4: the sterile males breeding with the females and not producing

503
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 4: viable progeny over a lot of quick generations of reproduction,

504
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 4: they wiped that they wiped themselves out by by being

505
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 4: outbred by sterile mals that we were making in factories

506
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 4: by the hundreds of millions. So it was a genius

507
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 4: solution to the problem, maybe one of the best pest

508
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 4: control things that's ever happened in human history. The problem

509
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: is is that once we got rid of them in

510
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: this part of the world and push them all the

511
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 4: way back down into Central America to basically what people

512
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 4: are I think referring to is the dairy and gap

513
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 4: area right, that very very remote area in Panama. Now

514
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 4: they quit producing the flies except in one place. So

515
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 4: what needs to potentially happen now, and maybe fairly quickly,

516
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 4: is that we get some of those product those sterile

517
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 4: fly production facilities built and back online very quickly, so

518
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 4: that we can deploy those quickly if they're needed, you know,

519
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 4: if they get out of southern Mexico into ord the

520
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 4: Mexico and start getting up to the our southern border

521
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 4: and threatening you know, like like Jason has said, it's

522
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 4: not just a cow problem, it's going to be a

523
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: wildlife problem as well.

524
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: And a great example there, you know, is that you know,

525
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: to James's point, like, hey, we want we we pushed

526
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: it out, pushed it all the way out of the US,

527
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 3: all the way south across Mexico, all the way down

528
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 3: south of Panama.

529
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: We want.

530
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 3: And and you left you left one one place on

531
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 3: guard duty. Yet you got one production facility in the

532
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: world remaining that produces sterough flies and trying to keep

533
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: that threat at bay. Well, some jumped over the wall, right,

534
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: they overwhelmed the last remaining guard there, and so now

535
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 3: that facility is perduction capacity might not be enough to

536
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 3: keep up the fight.

537
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: So you got to have you got to have more.

538
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: And again, fortunately the ag Research Service with USDA has

539
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: a strain that they've developed that if put into practice,

540
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 3: could probably double the production of that one facility pretty rapidly.

541
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: But even that might not be enough. And some additional

542
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 3: production facilities further north, you know, in the US because

543
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: now it's in Mexico. It's kind of jumped over the guard, right,

544
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: and you got to push it back. So this is

545
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 3: something obviously that's on our minds a lot right now,

546
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 3: and we're trying to be the best partner we can

547
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 3: be to other research agencies and to the the you know,

548
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 3: USDA and state level and health agencies like ATHIS for USDA,

549
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: or Texas Animal Health Commission in Texas Parks and Wildlife

550
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: within Texas to be forward looking and think about how

551
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: we manage this threat. And it's certainly not something that

552
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: we can wait for, you know, we need to go

553
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: to it, not not wait for it to come to us.

554
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Boy, it might be like an emergency funding situation

555
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: here depending on what federal dollars get released. But as

556
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: you're saying, hopefully the awareness is enough to prevent an

557
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: emergency situation anyway.

558
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know, again we're private landowners and we're

559
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 3: not necessarily you know, I'm must speak for myself. I

560
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 3: don't believe necessarily that the government needs to take care

561
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: of everybody every single day. But there are roles, right,

562
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: This is one of those roles when you have a

563
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: threat that is larger than any one entity.

564
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: And when we.

565
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 3: Look at the historical effort here, it was a combination

566
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: of private landowners and organizations, conservation groups, livestock organizations, and

567
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 3: the federal government that came together to create the solution.

568
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 3: And that's kind of where we see ourselves today is

569
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: you know, this is an effort, this is what this

570
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: is what government is for, is to safeguard the resources

571
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 3: and productivity of the nation. And this is that sort

572
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: of an issue.

573
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: And like you said, it's not just a producer's issue.

574
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: The wildlife effects are us You're talking about on a

575
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: normal year having eighty fond mortality. Is that's impactful.

576
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 3: And and you know how rapidly that decimates the population

577
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 3: right to an unhuntable, unsustainable level. And you know it

578
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 3: affects people in town too. You know, the effects on

579
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 3: productivity and their recreational opportunities and the price of food.

580
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 3: You know, all of these things are affected. And you know,

581
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm the last person to ever want to, like, you know,

582
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 3: be a fearmonger or anything like that.

583
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: But reality is reality.

584
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: And helping people understand the importance of this kind of

585
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: an issue when it might seem far away from them,

586
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: you know, is we think important and something we're certainly

587
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: you know, spending a lot of our our thought energy

588
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 3: on right now.

589
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 2: For sure?

590
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: Are you telling me that hunters aren't the only ones

591
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: who only get off their butts when the threats in

592
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: their backyard.

593
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: I think that's a human condition, you know, closest alligator

594
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: to the boat, and and sometimes it's helpful to have

595
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 3: you know, I've got my youngest son is really good.

596
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: If you stand him up a little bit higher on

597
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: the boat, he can see a little further out, and

598
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: he's got better eyes than me, and he can sometimes

599
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: see something from further away than I can. And it's

600
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 3: useful to have a lookout, you know, and turn right.

601
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: We all have to tend with to you know, contend

602
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 3: with today's problem. But but we need to keep our

603
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 3: eye on the one that could be a way bigger

604
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 3: problem tomorrow.

605
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: Yep, that's the truth. Well, I'd love to have you

606
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: back on and dig into this es a topic as

607
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: it evolves here in the US.

608
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,479
Speaker 2: Another interesting development, right.

609
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: Sup, Super interesting and it's just just too big to

610
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: fit in this episode. But if folks want to get

611
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: a hold of the East Foundation and you know, learn

612
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: more about this crossroads of ranching wildlife habitat, sustainable long

613
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: term use and yields also screwworm or you know, having

614
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: a working landscape that involves endangered species such as the ocelot,

615
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: or maybe it would be lesser prairie chicken ranching country

616
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: or greater sage grouse ranching country, or or right forridging pigmyls,

617
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: blackfoot ferrets. That damn list? How did? How do folks

618
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: get a hold of you?

619
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 4: So we have a We just just put out a

620
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 4: brand new website at www dot Eastfoundation dot net. So

621
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 4: that website is months old and specifically designed to be

622
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 4: a great repository and online library of information about all

623
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 4: the things we do, all the research we do with

624
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 4: all of our university and agency partners. You can find

625
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 4: out about what we're doing for the oslot issue, what

626
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: we're studying in terms of game species like nilghai quail,

627
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 4: whitetail deer, and what we're doing in terms of ranching

628
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 4: research and operation, you know, adaptive management and ranching as well.

629
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 4: So our website East Foundation dot nets probably the best

630
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: place to go. We also have a Facebook and Instagram.

631
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 4: Just look up just type in east Foundation and you'll

632
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 4: you'll find us there. You've been putting out information on

633
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 4: this screw worm issue on social media with links and

634
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 4: direction to other resources so people can get up to

635
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 4: speed on this really quickly by following us there.

636
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. Well, if folks have additional questions, Chief Science

637
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: Officer Jason Sawyer, please right into ask c A l

638
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: ask Cal at the meeteater dot com. Will either get

639
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: these folks back on which I think we should, or

640
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: I'll get your questions to them and we'll answer them

641
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: on the show.

642
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 3: Well, we would look forward to the opportunity to visit

643
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: with you more about any of these or other topics.

644
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 3: We just really appreciate all y'all do and the great

645
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 3: awareness that you'll bring to Honting in the intersection of

646
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: these issues and how important they are, you know for

647
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: everyday people. I mean being relevant matter, and and we

648
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 3: just really value everything that you do at Meat Eater

649
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 3: and appreciate the opportunity to visit with you today and

650
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: would love to have a chance to do it again.

651
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: Oh darn right, we'll make it happen. You guys, keep

652
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: keep working on keeping the working lands in working fashion,

653
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: not turning into condos, and we'll we'll be buddies for sure.

654
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, and we'll talk to you.

655
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: Soon, Yes, sir, take care, Thank you. Thanks,