1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: A quick note before we start that this series explores 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: sexualized imagery involving miners and violence. Please take care when listening. Hey, 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm Olivia Carvill and I'm Maggie Murphy. We're the hosts 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: of Levettown, a podcast series that explored the explosion of 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: deep fake pornography in US high schools, and we're back 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: in the studio for an update episode. We're here to 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: tell you about a long awaited crackdown on deep fake 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: pawn and to hear from parents who have dealt with 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: this kind of cyber harassment firsthand. One is the mother 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: of a victim, the other is the mother of a perpetrator. 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: But first the news. 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: The President sat to sign the bipartisan Take It Down 13 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: at which would help combat, say actually explosit online materials 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: sometimes generated by ai. 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: US lawmakers have passed the Take It Down Act, the 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: first federal legislation to lay out away for teens and 17 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: young women to get non consensual pornography scrubbed of social media. 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: The legislation also criminalizes publishing, or even threatening to publish 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: revenge porn or deep fake images. Today, it's my honor 20 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: to officially sign the Take It Down Act into law, 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: this big thing, very important, so horrible. 22 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: If you've already listened to the series, you'll know that 23 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: things played out in Levittown the way they did largely 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: because there was no law on the books at the 25 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: state or federal level to address deep fake porn. The 26 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: new federal law has its fans and its critics, and 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: if you want to hear more about specifically what's in it, 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 3: you can listen to a previous episode. But this episode, 29 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 3: we're going to hear from a parent whose daughter was 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: involved in wishing for this legislation after deep faked images 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: of her were shared at her school. And we're also 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: going to hear from another parent, one whose child has 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 3: been on the opposite side of this harassment and who 34 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 3: has harmed others. It's every parent's nightmare to think that 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: their child could be a victim of deep fake pornography, 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: of a long, intimidating campaign of cyber harassment. But what 37 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: if you learned that your child was a perpetrator of 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: a crime like this, That the child you nurtured and 39 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 3: cared for not only created non consensual pornographic images of 40 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: girls they knew from school, but they continue to harass 41 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 3: them over the course of several years, all while hiding 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: their identity online. What if you found out this was 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: happening only when the police knocked on your door with 44 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: a search warrant. 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 4: I hid a glimpse of something that was absolutely horrible. 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 4: In if it wasn't for the fake my son was involved, 47 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 4: I still wouldn't even know about it. And parents need 48 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 4: to know. You know, this needs to get sorted out. 49 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: This is the mother of a young man who was 50 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: accused of the kind of online harassment we covered in 51 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: our series. She wanted to remain anonymous because she feared 52 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: speaking out publicly could impact her career in safety. So 53 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: we've agreed not to identify her or her son and 54 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: will refer to her using a pseudonym, Barbara. She went 55 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: through a lot with her son, and she said she 56 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: thought it might help others to hear about it. Barbara 57 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 3: says that when her son was young, she thought that 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: she was lucky to have a happy child who was 59 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: pretty adaptable pre puberty. 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 4: He was literally an all round it really he loved 61 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 4: a lot of different things. He had a lot of 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 4: my characteristics, so we related. Well, he's quite creative, it 63 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 4: was extremely companionable, just a lovely young boy. 64 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: But over time things changed. 65 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 4: He developed some mental health issues as he approached puberty, 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 4: and was quite a dramatic change, very very sudden. 67 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: She noticed her son pulling away from sports, school and 68 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: his social life. To her, something knocked him off course, 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 3: effectively driving him into isolation. 70 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 4: The serious social withdrawal started to kick in and of 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 4: his depression, and. 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 5: That was difficult. 73 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 4: So it went from a child who was participating in 74 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 4: things to a teenager who refused to participate in It 75 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 4: was like black and white. And started to have some 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 4: negative comments about school as well, about his teachers or 77 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 4: about not enjoying subjects. It can't be bothered. Also, a 78 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 4: thing that I had noticed with him was that, unlike 79 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 4: kids of my friends, he had no vision of his future. 80 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 4: And I saw this teenager who refused to take any 81 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 4: opportunities and had no vision of what he wanted to do. 82 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 4: So there was, you know, so started to get quite worried. 83 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 4: I was concerned enough about it even then that I 84 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: did talk to a counselor was there anything I could do. 85 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 4: I remember being told that because I was an awesome mother, 86 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 4: I was a great role model and I didn't have 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 4: to worry about anything. It is really one of the 88 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 4: things that sticks in my throat. It's clearly things went 89 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 4: pretty pear shaped, and I'm not going to go into 90 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 4: the details because so I think mental health and mental illness, 91 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 4: they don't come and neat little boxes. 92 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: Anyway, Barbara was a pretty tech savvy mum, and there 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: were always computers in their home. She didn't think much 94 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 3: of her son using technology too, like playing Harry Potter 95 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 3: video games, but as he got older, she noticed he 96 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: spent more time online and he began making friends there too. 97 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 4: In hindsight, there were some influences that started to come 98 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 4: into the house. I will describe it in general terms. 99 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 4: So if you're a parent and you've got a son 100 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 4: and they're having a sex life in their bedrooms, locked 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 4: up with the curtains drawn, and that you can't not 102 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 4: know that's happening. There's signs of that. So that had 103 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: been going on for a long time. But I thought 104 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 4: it was consensual, you know, modern online relationships, because he 105 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 4: told me by that time about real relationships that he 106 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 4: believed were real. So I was aware that he was 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: having an online thing. So though I wasn't expecting this 108 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 4: other aspect, but I had warned him about things that 109 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: can happen online. You know, these are things you need 110 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 4: to be really careful about because people can get groomed 111 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 4: and sucked into, you know stuff. You know. I tried 112 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 4: to explain to him seriously, and he's just like, fuck 113 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 4: you go away, Mom. What do you know? 114 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: Can you recall the moment when you learned that your 115 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 3: son was harassing women online with doctored graphic images. 116 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: A bunch of investigators and police turned up with a 117 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 4: search warrant. It was might have been a week end 118 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: or after work. I was outside cleaning up with a 119 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 4: wheelbarrow in a rake or something like that. I locked 120 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 4: up on it. It's just this array of police and 121 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: playing clothes investigators at my gate, and a female detective 122 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: came to speak to me, show me that there was 123 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 4: a search warrant. 124 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 5: Ah. 125 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 4: They asked if he lived here, where was he in 126 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 4: the house. So I guess I was shocked, but I 127 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 4: wasn't one hundred percent surprised, because I'd been really concerned 128 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 4: about my son with the illness, and because I knew 129 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 4: that I didn't know what he was doing. 130 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: Can you characterize what you were told that he had 131 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: been doing? Why the police were investigating him. 132 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 4: That came in with a warrant and some babework. They 133 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 4: left it on the bench top. I just read the 134 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 4: front page had some charges on it, and I remember 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 4: its like I think a lot of it was like 136 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 4: online harm. Later, because he was having difficulty dealing with 137 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 4: the lawyers. The lawyers are having difficulty because it's a 138 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: new area. I thought, well, I'm going to have to 139 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 4: have a closer look here, and I'm going to have 140 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: to help. The lawyer had a massive file, and then 141 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 4: I saw all the stuff. 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: All Barbara knew were the charges brought against her son. 143 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: He wasn't willing to talk then about what he'd been 144 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: accused of. We asked if he would be open to 145 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 3: speaking to us, and he declined. But looking at the 146 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: online images the investigators had collected, this was the moment 147 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: that Barbara realized what her son had been up to 148 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: alone in his bedroom. 149 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 4: We'll be right back. 150 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: We're back with Barbara, who's taking her first look at 151 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 3: the images that showed her what her son was doing online. 152 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 4: And there was all these men, all these dick pictures 153 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 4: were just like erect Penis's water War. Guys taking photos 154 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 4: of themselves in front of their computer and then interacting 155 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 4: somehow and this begang of other men and then they 156 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: were talking just disgusting things about what they wanted to 157 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 4: do to various females. Honestly, I had no clues that 158 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 4: there was these kind of porn sits. To me, it 159 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 4: seemed like a virtual, kind of a gang rate scenario. 160 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 4: That's how a me imediately perceived it. Oh, my son 161 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 4: has been groomed into this stuff for the lese like 162 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 4: guys in their thirties forties. Not just young boys. These 163 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 4: are adult men out there saying hey, you know you're 164 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: one of us. 165 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 3: As Olivia and I learned through our reporting, there are 166 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 3: many places for non consensual pornographers to post their creations, 167 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 3: places where they get a boost from likes and comments 168 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 3: from other men. 169 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 4: Tell us what you'd like to do to this woman, 170 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 4: or show us a woman that we can make comments about, 171 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 4: or whatever. Post pictures of you. You know, you're Jenna 172 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: Talior on the computer, and I what the hell? It's 173 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 4: never been something that my generation. It's just like it's 174 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 4: just completely wouldn't even imagine it. 175 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: Barbara says she hates when she hears the police talk 176 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: about lone wolves committing these kinds of crimes. It bothers 177 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 3: her when people suggest that the perpetrators are introverted acting alone, 178 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 3: because that's not how she sees it. 179 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: That's a gang activity. My son wasn't there alone. He 180 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 4: was getting pumped up by mass testosterone, fueled by thousands 181 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 4: of men around the world telling him he was the greatest. 182 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 4: It's not just one fifteen year old inventing all of us. 183 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: She knows all about this world now, but it's not 184 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: something she was aware of before her son's arrest. And 185 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: she's frustrated that the people she hired to help her 186 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 3: son didn't flag this as a possible issue. 187 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 4: And I've just been through years of talking to psychologists, psychiatrists. 188 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 4: My son's been assessed and reassessed and reassessed and reassessed 189 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 4: for years. Why didn't it come up? So I have 190 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 4: a lot of questions about it, a lot of questions 191 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 4: about those unknown harms. 192 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 3: You know, has your son been willing to talk to 193 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: you about what he was accused of? 194 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 4: Largely No. At the start, he just denied everything, just 195 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 4: denied everything for a long time. And that's when I 196 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 4: realized the extend of the problem. I suppose before that 197 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 4: I really trusted him. I thought we had a good relationship, 198 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 4: and so I went through a period of feeling utterly 199 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: betrayed and heartbroken basically for quite some time. It's irrepearable 200 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 4: because this goes against my entire values, you know, values, 201 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 4: everything that I've lived in my life to support women, 202 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 4: encourage women, back women, and stand up to bullying and 203 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 4: all that kind of thing. I just saw this as 204 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: such some horrible monster that had come into my house 205 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 4: without my permission. 206 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: But Barbara says over time she started to look at 207 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 3: the situation differently. 208 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 4: And then I started to see him not as a criminal, 209 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 4: but as a very vulnerable lesson, really struggling with his identity, 210 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 4: with his social life, with his sexual development and stuff, 211 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 4: and being just fucked into this because he didn't, you know, 212 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 4: because of the state of his mind. Basically he was 213 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 4: very vulnerable to it. I told my son this recently. 214 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 4: This is a problem of male behavior, and it must 215 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: be solved by men. Women aren't going to solve this problem. Mums, 216 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 4: Angry mums aren't going to solve the problem men that 217 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 4: have been through it. They're going to have to figure 218 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 4: out how they got into it. Look at the damage 219 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: its cause to others and to themselves, and then they're 220 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 4: going to have to figure out a solution. I think 221 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 4: that's the only way that that harm can be addressed. 222 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: Really. I know you've spoken about him being up in 223 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: his room and the vacuum that these groups failed for 224 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: fear sung, but are there any other warding signs that 225 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: you might tell parents to look out for. 226 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, I wrote down a list of them. So a 227 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 4: lack of friends in the real world, the amount of 228 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 4: time spent online, that it is an all consuming, all 229 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 4: consuming thing, pulling the curtains in shades, locking the door 230 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 4: as a routine procedure to set themselves up for maximum privacy, 231 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 4: having a printer installed in the bedroom suddenly when maybe 232 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 4: they don't need it for work. There could be like 233 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 4: little tiny things on their own as a one off. 234 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 4: You might not think anything of them, but I think 235 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 4: it's like scigns of addiction that that world becomes more 236 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 4: real to them, so it affects their relationships in the home. 237 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 4: They start to be rude, not listening to other people, 238 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 4: that aggression that sort of like almost a hostility. Don't 239 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 4: come near my world. 240 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: With the evolution of technology at the moment, we're just 241 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: seeing such an advance in what's available. Even since the 242 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 3: experience that you've described, technology has moved incredibly quickly, and 243 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 3: images that these men in these networks were using and 244 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: taking hours to alter now takes minutes. And there's newdify 245 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 3: apps that produce fake moods and moments. Can you imagine 246 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: your son scenario but with today's technological ease of creating 247 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: that fake porn? How do you think that would have 248 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 3: played out? And also how troubling do you think that 249 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 3: this technology is just so easily available to young men 250 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: all around the world right now? 251 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 4: So I think either these sites need to not exist, 252 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 4: or if they do exist, so we need to restrict excess. 253 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 4: And I think parents have to be able to do that. 254 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 4: In at the moment, you can't because there's this whole 255 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 4: kind of ethos about, oh, we're training and teaching our 256 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 4: young people to make good choices, and so you should 257 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 4: stand back and let them make good choices. I just 258 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 4: think that's utter rubbish because they can't. They have no idea, 259 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 4: and they don't listen to the appearance or to anybody, 260 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 4: So you're not going to make good choices. We can't 261 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 4: just step back because too many of them are falling 262 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 4: into this abyss. 263 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: It's interesting you talk about restrictions because there's a real 264 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: range of parenting philosophy over how to protect young people 265 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: from dangers online. And on one side you have parents 266 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: who advocate for withholding devices completely. Then you've got others 267 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: who are making rules like okay in communal areas the 268 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: living room, but not the bedroom. And then on the 269 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: other end have parents who say tech is going to 270 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: be here forever. Now, you can't stop children from using it, 271 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: but what we can do is just talk to them 272 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 3: about it. Where do you come down in that spectrum? 273 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 4: I definitely like just having a rule around those bedrooms. 274 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 4: Do not allow teenagers to set up their bedrooms as 275 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 4: a fortress where no one can see in, no one 276 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: can come in, and they sort of develop an arrogant 277 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 4: attitude of saying that their parents don't even have the 278 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 4: right to know what's happening in there. I think that's 279 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: a real danger zone. To me, that is one thing 280 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 4: that I could have actually controlled that better, but I 281 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 4: would have had to fight about It wouldn't have been easy. 282 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 4: So I think parents are going to have to be 283 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 4: very strong about about this, and there's going to be 284 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 4: a lot of pushback, so I don't think there's going 285 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 4: to be I don't have any hope that there's going 286 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: to be a quick or fast fix for it. I 287 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 4: think we have to really raise awareness at the moment, 288 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 4: really really raise awareness to a lot of parents, to 289 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 4: a lot of community leaders, and anyone involved in supporting 290 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 4: youth in any way. 291 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: Great, Well, it's so appreciate you being so candid and 292 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: sharing that, and I think a lot of people will 293 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: find it incredibly enlightening and helpful. 294 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 4: So thank you from me as well. I really am 295 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 4: so happy, i will burst into tears. So you know, 296 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 4: I've had the world on my shoulders with dealing with this, 297 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 4: and you know, I'm extremely grateful to take this opportunity 298 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 4: to tell it how it is because I think it's 299 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 4: such a problem. 300 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 5: After the break, obviously, the second step after calling the school, 301 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 5: it's calling your lawyer to find out, you know, whither 302 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 5: are your rates? So we've been informed or no regulations, 303 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 5: no legislation globally at that point. So as soon as 304 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 5: Francisca came back the day off, she told me, Mom, 305 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 5: I want a law I need you to help me 306 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 5: to find a law. 307 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: Of course, parents of young women have also been struggling, 308 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: struggling to figure out how to prevent their daughters from 309 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: falling victim to deep fake pornography and struggling with how 310 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: to adequately protect them from the dangers of the digital world. 311 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: We spoke to one mother, Derota Manny, from New Jersey, 312 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: whose daughter was deep fated while she was a fourteen 313 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: year old at Westfield High School, and she decided to 314 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: fight back. 315 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 5: Francesca has been confirmed to be one of many AA 316 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 5: victims of deep fake pornography at Westfield High School in 317 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 5: New Jersey, and ever since we have been advocating for 318 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 5: regulation and legislation and just AI authority in general. 319 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: De Rooda Manny and her daughter were just in Washington, 320 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: DC in the Rose Garden of the White House where 321 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump signed the Take It Down Act. 322 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: With us are several other brave Americans whose lives were 323 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: rocked by online harassment, including Francesca Manny. 324 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: De Oda Manny describes herself as an entrepreneur, an educator, 325 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: and now an advocate for deep fake pawn survivors. What 326 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: she's not, she says, is someone who was ever looking 327 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: to get tangled up in politics. 328 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 5: We live very comfortable life, surrounded by two dogs, two cards. 329 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 5: We go for walks, we travel a lot, we hike, 330 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 5: we kayak. We don't need to be in CNN, or 331 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 5: in New York Times or god knows where else. This 332 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 5: is not our prerogative, So that spitlight was put on 333 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 5: us without our consent and without our knowledge. 334 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: Deeroda says that in October twenty twenty three, when Francisca 335 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: was a sophomore, she learned that deep fake porn images 336 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: of her were being sheered among her male classmates on Snapchat. 337 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: Francisca was one of several girls at her school who 338 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: were targeted. At first, Deoda says this came as a 339 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: shock for her daughter, but that quickly turned to anger. 340 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 5: So, you know, immediately when she found out, she texted me, 341 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 5: then she called me, and I know everybody expected she 342 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 5: would be crying. No, she was just shocked. Multiple of 343 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 5: girls crying on the hallways. I mean, it was a 344 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 5: havoc during that time in the high school, and some 345 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 5: boys were pointing at them and making fun of and 346 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 5: that's when she stopped and she said, you know, I 347 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 5: shouldn't be crying. I should be mad. There's nothing to 348 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 5: be said about. I should be mad about what has 349 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 5: happened to us girls. 350 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: De Roda was mad too, once she fully understood the 351 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: gravity of what had happened when she answered that first 352 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: call from her daughter that day. She'd heard about deep fakes, 353 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: but only in the political realm. She knew that sometimes CEOs, 354 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: lawmakers or celebrities had been targeted, but high school girls 355 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: being undressed with AI never And. 356 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 5: When I said, can you please explain it to me? 357 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 5: What does that mean? She said, Well, there's a technology 358 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 5: when you can just undress girls, so you can take 359 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 5: any picture, and with a click of a button, sometimes free, 360 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 5: sometimes for nine niner cents, sometimes for five dollars, depending 361 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 5: on the side, you will be able to undress that woman, girl, boy, anyone. 362 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that sounds like a nightmare scenario for any parent. 363 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: And Deeroda, what did you decide to do next as 364 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: a mother, as a parent, what did you do? 365 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 6: So? 366 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 5: When Francisca came back home that evening, she has been 367 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 5: pissed because her school suggests that there's nothing they can 368 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 5: do to the perpetrators, she said, well, what about the 369 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 5: code of conduct? You have it? They said, well, but 370 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 5: they're not AI lost, so we can't really apply it. 371 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: The school did have a harassment, intimidation and anti bullying 372 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: policy that applied to technology, but Deoda says it was outdated, 373 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: to say the least. 374 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 5: When Francisca brought it home, she said, look, mom, they're 375 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 5: actually referring pagers and what was it with Alice Wachman. 376 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 5: She's like, what is a pager? What is it a Wakman? 377 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: No one in authority seemed to have the right playbook 378 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: to respond to what had happened at Francesca's school. 379 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 5: Obviously, shore with a new cord war that there would 380 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 5: be one day suspension for one boy and that's it, 381 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 5: and that the school is offering counseling. So Francisca says, 382 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 5: I don't need your counseling. What I need is an accountability. 383 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 5: Their answer was there's really not much we can do 384 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 5: because there are no laws. 385 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: Did you feel at this point that you, you Da, 386 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: the other young woman who have been targeted in this case, 387 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: had been kind of failed in some way one. 388 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 5: Hundred percent failed, disappointed, offended. It's a very strong message 389 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 5: that we're sending to the female community in our high 390 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 5: school that basically says, you know you are a girl. 391 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 5: At some point you will wear a victim's badge, so 392 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,479 Speaker 5: go for counseling. Well, screw that. Yes, this happens, and 393 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 5: it's our job to learn how to protect our image. 394 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 5: But it's also our job to point out that certain 395 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 5: behaviors are unacceptable and should not be cultivated, especially in 396 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 5: the place a thief a school should be. 397 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: We reached out to Westfield High School, and the school 398 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: said that it can't comment on individual student matters or 399 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: disciplinary actions. In a statement, the school's superintendent, Raymond Gonzales, 400 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: said the incident took place outside of the school year, 401 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: but that the administration started investigating immediately in coordination with 402 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: local police. It also provided counseling support to the victims, 403 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: and it revised its policies to include the use of 404 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: AI and the definition of cyber bullying, and updated its 405 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: code of conduct to better address emerging digital issues. And 406 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: what about for you as a parent, as a mum 407 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: who watches your teenaged daughter go through this. 408 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 5: You know, it's interesting. I've been asked this question over 409 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 5: and over and I always want to respond with, well, 410 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 5: how do you think it makes me feel? So I'm 411 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 5: going to leave it at that. But what I'm going 412 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 5: to say instead is instead of constantly asking any victim 413 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 5: of any kind of crime of how did it make 414 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 5: them feel, we should start asking the important questions. One 415 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 5: is why is this happening? Two is what can we 416 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 5: do to fix it? There's also the question of what 417 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 5: are the consequences of those images being showed? 418 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: Consequences like a college recruiter googling a prospective student and 419 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: stumbling across what looks like real life nudes online, or 420 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: a future boss or a future boyfriend, or really anyone 421 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: for that matter. De Rodas says she grew increasingly frustrated 422 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: at people in positions of power telling her not to 423 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: worry about the deep fake pornographic images of her daughter 424 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: because they're not real. To her, the problem was that 425 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: deep fakes looked real. It felt like a real crime, 426 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: even if it only occurred in the online world, and 427 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: even if the offline world hadn't created the laws to 428 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: criminalize it. Yet, can you talk about your own sense 429 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: of realization that this lack of any kind of regulation 430 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: or legislation to try and prevent this, that this wasn't 431 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: just a New Jersey issue. Your your realization that this 432 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: really was a national and actually a global issue. 433 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 5: Yes, So the day of the incident, we already figured 434 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 5: it out what is wrong because obviously the second step 435 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 5: after calling the school, it's calling your lawyer to find out, 436 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 5: you know, what. 437 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 4: Are your rights. 438 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 5: So we've been in formed of exactly the same word. 439 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 5: There are no regulations, no legislation globally at that point. 440 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 5: So as soon as Francesca came back the day off, 441 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 5: she told me, Mom, I won a law. I need 442 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 5: you to help me to find the law. So that 443 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 5: set us into motion for advocacy. And I did tell her, 444 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 5: you know, I was slightly reluctant of how much of 445 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 5: her involvement I would like to see in this advocacy. 446 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 5: I said, you know, you are fourteen. You don't know 447 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 5: how people will react if you go full force out 448 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 5: there like you usually do. She's a fencer, she's been 449 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 5: fencing since she was six. We just came back from 450 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 5: a Junior Olympics, so she has that kind of focus 451 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 5: when she wants something. I said, but gan to be prepared. 452 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 5: Some people are going to stay on your side and 453 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 5: some people will be really against you. She says, I 454 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 5: don't care. I know I'm right. People will think what 455 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 5: they want to think. I know what I want. 456 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Franchisca and Rhoda started talking to a lot of lawmakers. 457 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: One big victory for them came in early April. 458 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 6: Today I stand before you as the happiest sixteen year 459 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 6: old girl, not because the journey has been smooth, but 460 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 6: because at fourteen, I chose not to wear a victim's badge. Instead, 461 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 6: I decided to fight for my rights and pursue the 462 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 6: justice so many cold impossible. 463 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: That's Francisca. She's introducing New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy at 464 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: an event in Newark where he signed a state deep 465 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: fake law that she advocated for. 466 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: Let me again begin by thanking Francesca money for her 467 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: incredibly powerful words, for your bravery and for your advocacy. 468 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 2: We would not be here today without you. 469 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: Then came the signing of the Federal Take It Down 470 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: Act in Washington, DC. How do you feel about the 471 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: legislation that has been passed. 472 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 5: I think it's a great step forward. It's a beginning. Unfortunately, 473 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 5: or fortunately, AI technology it's so complex and multifast said 474 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 5: and so fast piece that we will have to try 475 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 5: to catch up with them in terms of legisla as well. 476 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 5: So we need to start somewhere and then we need 477 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 5: to continue bettering what's already in the legislative realm. That 478 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 5: being said, I think it's also very important to point 479 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 5: out Francisca has been nominated part of THAI one hundred 480 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 5: AI Most Influential Group last wire, So we've been connected 481 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 5: with one of the most amazing individuals in AI realm 482 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 5: that are advancing climate control and education and research and medicine, 483 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 5: you name it, and that really open our eyes. So 484 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 5: now we strongly believe that conversation about AI cannot be 485 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 5: one sided. It's a holistic conversation that should include deep 486 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 5: fakes and ethics and legislations, but at the same time 487 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 5: we should simultaneously educate about the great possibilities that AI 488 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 5: provide as a tool of an advancement in their future. 489 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: For der Rote and Francisca, this year's long advocacy crusade 490 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: isn't about vengeance against teenage boys. Some parents from Westfield 491 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: High School called for the police to press charges against 492 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: the male students who created and shared the deep fake images, 493 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: but for this mother, daughter Joo, it was about more 494 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: than that. 495 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 5: Vengeance is not something we're looking for. We were looking 496 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 5: for simple This is wrong. You're worth enough to fight 497 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 5: for and certain things will not be tolerated. So I 498 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 5: think that is extremely important to talk off. We should 499 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 5: educate our boys, because unfortunate, it's mostly boys of how 500 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 5: not to misuse this technology instead of educating our girls 501 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 5: of how to protect their image. If we want this 502 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 5: to change and truly instigate meaningful progress, we will have 503 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 5: to start asking where are the boys. 504 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: That's a great point and something we did delve into 505 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: in our podcast series is often this conversation stems around 506 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: the impact on the young woman, the victims, but there's 507 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: a whole nother realm to this, which is what is 508 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: going on with young men. I wonder what would you 509 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: share to the parents of young boys to try and 510 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: prevent this from happening at the source, to try and 511 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: guide your kids to not create deep fakes. 512 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 5: That's such a good question. I would say, talk to 513 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 5: your boys. Yes, there are ethics in place, and there 514 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 5: should be certain ways that we use technology in general, 515 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 5: and we should do the right thing. This is the 516 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 5: wrong thing. But at the same time, do tell them 517 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 5: that it's a criminal offense, right now I know the 518 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 5: law that we just signed with Governor Murphy provides up 519 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 5: to five years of punishment in prison, which is huge. 520 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 5: Taken down, it's two to three years. Still, you know, 521 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 5: if you want choose to educate your children because it's 522 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 5: the right thing, then teach them how to protect themselves 523 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 5: from ending up in jail. 524 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. So rather than the conversation being you will upset 525 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: a friend and hurt your female friends if you do this, 526 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: it's you could be imprisoned for this. And what about 527 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: advice that you may have for parents who are watching 528 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 1: their children go through this. 529 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 5: Support your child. Know that there are tools like take 530 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 5: it Down that will allow you to take the image 531 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 5: immediately down from any website. Know your last but most importantly, 532 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 5: understand that there's no right and there's no wrong in 533 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 5: the way how you should handle the situation. Every child 534 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 5: is different, every family is different, every incident is different. 535 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: I love that you started this conversation talking about how 536 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: your daughter wanted a law and that after this happened. 537 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: The day she found out about this incident, she came 538 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: to you and said, I want a law, mom, And 539 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: she got it, Yes she did. This episode is hosted 540 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: and reported by Margie Murphy and me Olivia Carvell. Jeff 541 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: Grocott produced this episode and Caitlin Kenney edited. Sound designed 542 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: by Blake Maples, original composition by Steve Bone thanks to 543 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: Gilda Decali, Robert Friedman and Angel Rascio. Sage Bowman is 544 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Levettown is a production of Bloomberg, 545 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts.