1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Joining us now is 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: Reza Palavi, the son of the last shaw of Iran. Reza, 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. I want 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: to start with a question, are you in active discussions 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: in any way to return to Iran in a leadership 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: role if there is some sort of regime change in Iran? 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: Good morning to you and to my fellow competters following 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: this program and all of your audience. There is a 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: campaign for liberation that we've been committed to all these years. 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: The moment is approaching very fast. The regime is on 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: the verge of collapse. We see elements within the regime 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: already talking defections, they get in touch with us. We 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: see a leader who is now hiding in a bunker 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: like a rat, while many high elements are taking flight 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: from Iran. I think all of this is conducive to 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: something that they've soon happened, and finally, my fellow compatriots 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: will be able to overcome. And of course there's a 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: plan not only for this phase of our struggle, which 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: is liberation from this regime, but what happens right next 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: the transition to what we hope will culminate in a 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: democratic outcome. I have stepped in to leave this campaign 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: at the behals of my compatriots. I have a plan 23 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: of action not only to manage this phase of transition, 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: but also to plan for itdvanced future recovery and prosperity, 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: which has to go hand in love with our democratic GUIDEA. 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: Just just a question here, who are the compatriots who've 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: approached you to try to harmless leadership push? 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think that you have people who have vested 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: interest in preserving this regime because the whole survival depends 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: on this regime all this time, whereas the millions of 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: my compatriots, who are the first victim of this regime, 32 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: have paid all these four decades a very heavy price. 33 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: We have seen many campaigns that people protested. The latest 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: one was two years ago the Woman Live Freedom movement. 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: And finally, I think today, with this clear weakening of 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: the regime, and as I said, I'm being on the 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: version of collapse, Finally, all these people who have reached 38 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: their lives and honorably put their lives on the line 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: and did die for the cause, we'll be able to 40 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: remember that as heroes of this conflict. Because we'll be 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: liberated sooner than everybody thinks. And my entire commitment has 42 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: been from day one to support my competits in the 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: struggle for liberation, and we believe that the end is 44 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: very near for the regime and our dreams of liberty 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 2: will finally be realized very soon. 46 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 3: Rather on the ground, what we've seen in Iran is 47 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 3: those in Tehran, for example, trying to evacuate Israel, saying 48 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 3: more recently that they would look at targeting places there. 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: You've seen fear, you've seen strikes, and you've seen death. 50 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: How complicated and how difficult is it to ask a 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: populace to rise up and rally behind you when they're 52 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 3: the very same ones that are under threat right now. 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: Look, I think many of my competits are smart enough 54 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: to understand that if right now, if until now, and 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: in fact, many of your colleagues in the media have 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: always asked me, how do you find a regime that 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: is so repressive, that it's so ruthless, that executes that 58 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: threatened dissidents or activists at home, to which I said, well, 59 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: obviously the playing field has to be more equalized. This 60 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: is a case where for the first time in four 61 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: years we see this dclaude literally d claude. But it 62 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 2: is also important to have the support of the world 63 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: community because until now, many times my compatriots have been 64 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: thrown under the bus when they had an opportunity to 65 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: be backed because of a policy of appeasement or containment. 66 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: I think now the situation for the first time exists 67 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: for the world to realize that it is not availed 68 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: to expect this regime to change its attitude and behavior. Ali, 69 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: Howmna is at war with the world, not the Iranian people. 70 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: He's the main culprit for being here and having Iranians 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: also have innocent victims and civilians that to whom my 72 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: heart goes up, of course, But I think right now 73 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: we need to be focused on the goal and the aim. 74 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: We have a tremendous opportunity to overcome this regime. I 75 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: think the world will be the sigh of relief with 76 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: this regime no longer be there. 77 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: We are carrying on our because the goal and the 78 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 3: aim is a regime change. What we have heard from 79 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: Israel is that their goal is to dismantle the nuclear 80 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 3: forces from Iran. Is it you're understanding that a regime 81 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 3: change is also a goal from the Israelis, and have 82 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: you been in contact with them. 83 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: I'm not asking any foreign governments to state the policy 84 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: of regime change, although I think many of them do 85 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: believe that ultimately that would be the best formula to 86 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: get rid of so many problems at the same time, 87 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: and not just the nuclear threat. As a result of 88 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: this regime track record of behavior in the region, and 89 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: beyond formatting terrorism, supporting you know, their their proxies like 90 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 2: Ebola or Hamas in the region and so on, so 91 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: the disappears of this regime. We're eliminating too many problems 92 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: that this regime has caused in one shot. The first 93 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: beneficiary of regime change are the running people themselves. 94 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 4: But we believe that our immediate neighborhood and the region, 95 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 4: whether it is the. 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: Israelis or Arab neighbors, and beyond that the rest of 97 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: the free world will understand that the running people, who 98 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: unlike this regime want to be part of the civilized 99 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: world with the same values and principles of liberty and 100 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: freedom of human rights, unlike this regime, would be certainly 101 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: the element of change. And if you will, the alternatives 102 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 2: to this regime I think this is where the world 103 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: needs to be focused now, beyond the immediate campaign that 104 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: is a result of the stubbornness of how many must 105 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: dragged our country into it. But let's look at the 106 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: positive aspect of once we get rid of this regime, 107 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: how we can. 108 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: Envisage your future. 109 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: We're or back to an element of stability and regional peace, 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: which is in every is interesting just to build them. 111 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: What Danny was asking, have you been in contact with 112 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: the Israeli leadership? 113 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: We are reaching out to everyone and everyone, including the 114 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: Israeli side, to understand what it is that we stand. 115 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 4: What is the expectation of the Iranian people in terms 116 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 4: of world support. 117 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty much the same thing that many 118 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: struggling nations under totally tenor regime. 119 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 4: We're looking at any country that understand. 120 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: That they have to stand with the people of a 121 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: country that is trying to liberate itself. 122 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 4: And again, whether it's the Israeli government or the American 123 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 4: government or any other government. 124 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: For that matter, the question is whose side are you 125 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: going to stand with today the Iranian people or continue 126 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: to insist negotiating with the regime that is on the 127 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 2: verge of collapse. 128 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: There's also a question of what this new leadership looks 129 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: like or as are you talking about re establishing the 130 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: monarchy when that was controversial and it might not have 131 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: full support from all parties, particularly the more religious elements 132 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: of the Iranian society. 133 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: I have never advocated for one for of a regime 134 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: or another. What I did, I have advocated, and in 135 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: fact it's part of my transition plan. Is a process 136 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: that is totally democratic. That means that the running people 137 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: have to have the ability to ponder upon whatever a 138 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: constitutional assembly will propose as a constitutional formula, a future constitution. 139 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: The form that the regime can take, what it will mean. 140 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: And unlike nineteen seventy nine, when people had no cluer 141 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: idea what an Islamic republic means and by the time 142 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: they figured it out it was too late, this time, 143 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: in full transparency, they'll have the option to look at 144 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: what's the best model that fits them and let the 145 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: ballot box decide the majority what the running people will 146 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: look for. Will it be a republic, will it be 147 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: auctional monarchy, or whatever it is. My objective is not 148 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: to stand here as the result of that, and my 149 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: responsibility right now My only focus is to see this 150 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: process through so we can ensure that ultimately we place 151 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: this dictatorship with a democratic and let me underline, a 152 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: secular democracy. 153 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 4: What is a key separation of reigion from state as 154 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: a requisition to. 155 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: That point, past attempts to engineer regime shifts in the 156 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: Middle East haven't often ended in liberal, pro Western governments. 157 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: There are examples many out there Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, 158 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: all ending in things that look like fragmentation or current 159 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: armed forces having the most power and being the ones 160 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 3: that emerge in the chaos of a regime shift. What 161 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 3: do you suggest that it is different this time? 162 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: I think Iranian society not just for centuries of proving 163 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: that they have as a nation state, a concept of 164 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: a nationhood, national identity, natural pride and objective, a culture, 165 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: a civilization, but also a polity and a generation today 166 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: very shrewd and very clever by knowing what it is 167 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: that will be in their interests. They see the world 168 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: and how it has evolved they have since a successful 169 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: campaign of liberation. They understand the key elements that sustains 170 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: and preserves democratic order. 171 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 4: And I believe today's gen z and Iran is more 172 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 4: than ever equipped. 173 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: To understand not only the needs, but how and what 174 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 2: it will take to implement that. 175 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 4: No, it's a collective project. Everybody have to roll. 176 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: Up their sleeves and participate. The premise remains the same 177 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: in the principles of liberty and human rights. But if 178 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: each member of society is committed to see through it 179 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: and actively engage in that process, that's where we can 180 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: guarantee that it's going to be actually a result that 181 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: would be positive. I have absolute faith and confidence in 182 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 2: my computers and their wisdom and their know how and 183 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 2: their knowledge. They do need guidance, of course, they do 184 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 2: need support, of course, they do need some level of leadership, 185 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: of course, But at the end, they are the elements 186 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: and instruments of changed and we are working together very 187 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: closely to see that through.