Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: What are we doing here? We're supposed to be on vacation.
Speaker 3: I never go on vacation. You never go on vacation.
Speaker 3: I mean they closed the building down and we have
Speaker 3: to do like we did this morning where we lock
Speaker 3: pick break in.
Speaker 2: You're welcome for that for Christmas, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I think the lessons have been helping both of us.
Speaker 3: But they keep us, they keep us out of here,
Speaker 3: but not one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: They can't keep us out, can't.
Speaker 3: They really can't.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason why I call it for this confab
Speaker 2: and headquarters today. Yes, I don't tell producer Day were here. No,
Speaker 2: I had a story update for you one I wanted
Speaker 2: to share. You may remember the story about Rita Crunwell
Speaker 2: ran back on July nineteenth, twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Okay, you remember that name?
Speaker 2: Yes, oh yeah, she was the comptroller for the small
Speaker 2: town of Dixon in western Iloni. Right, she's the one
Speaker 2: who embezzled millions of dollars from the coffers of her
Speaker 2: little small town, innocent small town. And she's like a
Speaker 2: hoover vacuum taking up cash right now, Why why would
Speaker 2: she do this to her small town, well, Elizabeth, because
Speaker 2: she could buy herself a mess, a mess of pretty
Speaker 2: ponies and show horses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she was just rotten to the core, totally. No.
Speaker 2: It took her two plus decades of doing this, and
Speaker 2: she stole fifty three million dollars from her.
Speaker 3: Small So crazy for such a small town.
Speaker 2: Right now, I don't want to give away the whole story,
Speaker 2: but I'll tell you this. Eventually she gets busted, she
Speaker 2: gets sent to prison. But Elizabeth, the reason I called
Speaker 2: you into headquarters today is because outgoing President Joe Biden
Speaker 2: has been horsing around with pardons and commutations for federal prisoners.
Speaker 2: And you know what those are, right Well, yeah, pardons
Speaker 2: are different from computatation.
Speaker 3: To this commutation, you change the sentence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So, Rita, she gets a commutation, they basically
Speaker 2: void her sentence. She's now seventy one years old. She's
Speaker 2: already seen some kindness when it comes to this justice
Speaker 2: because thanks to reduction in the number of federal prisoners
Speaker 2: during COVID, Rita, she got sent home to finish her
Speaker 2: sentence on house arrest. Chief petition for this, she got
Speaker 2: an early release. They gave a toy, right, they sent
Speaker 2: her to her halfway house where she has been living,
Speaker 2: and then like, well, you know, just send her all
Speaker 2: the way home. So now she's all the way out.
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, the folks in her hometown
Speaker 2: at Dixon, they are picked. Dude, there's this one cat,
Speaker 2: Danny Leglosa. He's the city manager of Dixon. He said,
Speaker 2: and I quote, the city of Dixon is shocked and outraged. Now,
Speaker 2: Leglosa added, and I once again quote, this is a
Speaker 2: complete travesty of justice and a slap in the face
Speaker 2: for our entire community. This dude, he was the police
Speaker 2: chief when old Rita was bilking their hometown. Yeah, now
Speaker 2: he's the city manager, so he's really protective of this place.
Speaker 2: And it explains why he would say and I quote,
Speaker 2: this definitely cuts the scar open. It's not a scab,
Speaker 2: it's a scar. It's a deep one. At a time
Speaker 2: when the federal government is the least trusted institution in
Speaker 2: the country to do something like this.
Speaker 3: Now, I also this.
Speaker 2: Former cup he turned city manager. He described Rita. He
Speaker 2: knows her obviously, so he called her a quote sociopath
Speaker 2: who demonstrated no remorse, who destroyed the people that were
Speaker 2: closest to her, not a feeling of guilt for what
Speaker 2: she put our town through. He wasn't done, Elizabeth, because
Speaker 2: you know, after eight years of being in jail, she
Speaker 2: walks and he could. Well, he said, it's just not right.
Speaker 2: Just the laziness to carte blanche commute, the sentence of
Speaker 2: everyone or nearly everyone that was put on home detention
Speaker 2: during COVID, not even giving consideration to the victims or
Speaker 2: their crimes.
Speaker 3: Man makes some points, right now.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not quite a prison abolitionist, but I'm
Speaker 2: not looking to lock people up. So there's also the Okay,
Speaker 2: the law enforcement community, they worked so hard to put
Speaker 2: this homegirl away, right, they now describe what she is
Speaker 2: doing as dancing in the streets of Dixon with their commutation.
Speaker 2: That was the words of US Marshal Jason Wajdolo. Okay,
Speaker 2: Now he said she quote conned the President of the
Speaker 2: United States. Yeah, he was really pissed. Now I'll get
Speaker 2: the last word. I'll give it to his current mayor,
Speaker 2: Dixon Lee Ariano. Right, he called out the real world
Speaker 2: costs of what Rita did. Her horse obsessed greed, right,
Speaker 2: he said, and I quote, you can't steal fifty three
Speaker 2: million dollars and it's non violent. It hurts your public safety.
Speaker 2: We had an ambulance that smoked when it went down
Speaker 2: the street, Elizabeth, this more Town ambulance Tupaca day has
Speaker 2: it disgusting? All be goes of old Rita Crunwell and
Speaker 2: heard my little ponies. Now let's sit back, relax, and
Speaker 2: let's hear how Rita Crunwell did it all for the horse.
Speaker 3: Let me just point out really quickly, this lady sucked
Speaker 3: the public teat dry. She took the money. Why do
Speaker 3: we still have to pay for her? If she's like
Speaker 3: in her seventies and six, I don't want to I
Speaker 3: don't want to give her four square you know, three squares? Yeah,
Speaker 3: wherever you say it, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 3: I if she's just I don't know. I think she's
Speaker 3: kind of been brought low. I can't imagine that she's
Speaker 3: living high on the hogs. So I say I'm tired
Speaker 3: of paying.
Speaker 2: For Let's see her do some restitution on that fifty
Speaker 2: three million.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, just Michael.
Speaker 2: Anyway, whatever, this one is still criminally ridiculous, So enjoy
Speaker 2: read the Crunwell and her little ponies.
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Dutton Zaren. Do you know what's ridiculous. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 3: tell you what's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Oh, hit me with it.
Speaker 3: Okay, when you don't want your car stolen, which is
Speaker 3: not that's not ridiculous. No one wants her car stolen
Speaker 3: unless you just need to get rid of it. Well, sure,
Speaker 3: evidence wise, but let's say you don't trust the club,
Speaker 3: you don't trust the locks or an alarm. Did you
Speaker 3: know I think this is ridiculous. You can buy a
Speaker 3: boot for your own car.
Speaker 2: I think I know where you're going with.
Speaker 3: This, Like it's not just a municipal thing. Did you
Speaker 3: get some reason to one recently? Where did you see
Speaker 3: in my neighbor's driveway?
Speaker 2: What your neighbor boots his own car?
Speaker 3: It boots his own car. And I have decided that's ridiculous, Yes,
Speaker 3: I would agree and idiotic.
Speaker 2: Why does he boot his own car because he had
Speaker 2: a car stolen a couple of times? No, did he
Speaker 2: have his like something else stolen. He's just kind of
Speaker 2: like gunshy about this innocence I don't know, just snatched
Speaker 2: from him and now he's like, not my truck.
Speaker 3: I think maybe he shouldn't be living in the city.
Speaker 2: Oh definite, Yeah, definitely. So wait, is he like somebody
Speaker 2: from like rural small town America? Nope? Hmm what's his deal?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but he's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: I'll completely concur with that. Now I got one for you, Yes,
Speaker 2: you're ready. This is a story. It's about a middle
Speaker 2: aged woman. She's from rural, small town Illinois, and this
Speaker 2: particular Midwestern woman she uh, she had a taste for
Speaker 2: that sweet sweet horsey breeding life. Oh oh yeah. Now
Speaker 2: to pay for her horse jones, she decided to dip
Speaker 2: into the bank account not of her wealthy husband, not
Speaker 2: of her family, but of her town, her hometown, and
Speaker 2: she used the money that she could on the horses,
Speaker 2: and she started diverting so much of the town's budget
Speaker 2: that the town was almost going bankrupt. Oh he's a
Speaker 2: perfect criminal. Since no one sees her coming. This is
Speaker 2: the story of Rita Crundwell, the woman who got hooked
Speaker 2: on horse. I'm sorry, the horses, woman who got hooked
Speaker 2: on horses, those sweet, sweet ponies. This is Ridiculous Crime
Speaker 2: a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons.
Speaker 2: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and ridiculous. Today's
Speaker 2: bizarre tale of small town crime takes place in the
Speaker 2: American heartland. One of your favorite places, Elizabeth, America's heartland
Speaker 2: is now this story of Rita Crundwell. It takes place
Speaker 2: in a very specific part of rural small town America,
Speaker 2: the Illinois of Dixon. Now, this is also famous for
Speaker 2: a couple of things. Before Rita Crundwell, it was famous
Speaker 2: as the hometown of the star of the Bedtime for
Speaker 2: Bonzo series of movies would later become I believe a
Speaker 2: politician Ronald Reagan that yeah, uh huh. And then Dixon,
Speaker 2: Illinois is also the petunia capital of well, not the world,
Speaker 2: but of Illinois. It's the petunia capital of Illinois, which
Speaker 2: is you know, high praise for Illinois.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Also the catfish capital of Illinois once again of Illinois.
Speaker 3: Very original fish. Not the practice of people not.
Speaker 2: Like really good at like hooking up with like like foreigners,
Speaker 2: getting them to come over here.
Speaker 3: And be like, wait a minute, cat the bottom feeder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not like mante Teo's hometown. Now, our
Speaker 2: second fun fact about Dixon is that Rita Crundwell lives there.
Speaker 2: And she is the fifth most prolific embezzler of all.
Speaker 3: Time, of all times, of all time.
Speaker 2: Day, Elizabeth, has the FBI ever come to your home
Speaker 2: or place of work and asked to speak with you?
Speaker 3: Well, Elizabeth, no they haven't. They haven't asked to speak
Speaker 3: with me. But one time when I worked at a
Speaker 3: certain place, they came.
Speaker 2: In, really, but not to talk to me. Did you
Speaker 2: get to watch them operate?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well not really. They went into another office and
Speaker 3: then everyone was terrified in our office and screaming around.
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, we haven't done anything, wait
Speaker 3: have we?
Speaker 2: And then okay, well I've got a little fun visualization
Speaker 2: for you. You're ready. This is the moment when the
Speaker 2: FBI comes to your work and what that is?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: You ready? I want you to close your eyes, yes,
Speaker 2: I want you to picture it. It's a Tuesday morning
Speaker 2: in April. It's early in the day, a little after
Speaker 2: nine am. You're working at the Dixon City Hall. You're
Speaker 2: a part time secretary, just typing away, doing your thing.
Speaker 2: It's how Rita started at city Hall. And you spot
Speaker 2: these three FBI agents. They push open the double doors,
Speaker 2: streaming in sunlight behind them. The noises of the day
Speaker 2: on Main Street Dixon. All come pouring in, these FBI agents.
Speaker 2: They stride in with purpose and they're looking past you.
Speaker 2: You're like, but no, oh, I greet people. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: we know where we're going. They go marching up the stairs.
Speaker 2: You go to follow to see if they need help,
Speaker 2: trying to get to wherever it is that they're going.
Speaker 2: And as you're going up the marble steps, you can
Speaker 2: see them make the turn and start heading towards the
Speaker 2: Mayor's office. You're like, okay, I know where they're going,
Speaker 2: so you trail behind them. You follow them all the
Speaker 2: way down the hallway. They get to the Mayor's office.
Speaker 2: Mayor Jim Burke is in his office that morning. This
Speaker 2: is a point of fact because he's a part time mayor.
Speaker 2: He's not always in the office. This morning he is.
Speaker 2: He's very common now, full time real estate agent, part
Speaker 2: time mayor. Jim Burke is a good hearted guy and so,
Speaker 2: you know, kind self effacing, kind of Midwestern guy, Big
Speaker 2: Jim Burke, Big Jim Burke, and with the FBI agents
Speaker 2: come in, he's really friendly, nice to them, and you're
Speaker 2: right on the FBI's six right you're watching past them
Speaker 2: into Mayor Jim Burke's office because you want to see
Speaker 2: what all this hullabaloo is about.
Speaker 3: Oh, hella, I figured you were in real life.
Speaker 2: Yes, And so as Mayor Jim Burke is greeting the
Speaker 2: FBI agents, you notice he doesn't look scared, fright and
Speaker 2: intimidated nothing. He's cool as a cucumber and a bowl
Speaker 2: of hot sucks because my man Sci would say, yeah.
Speaker 2: And Big Jim is sitting there and he's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I basically called you into the office. It seems he's
Speaker 2: got that demeanor like he invited the FBI. And know
Speaker 2: why would he invite the FBI? You're wondering, Well, the
Speaker 2: FBI agents they don't say anything at first, they just
Speaker 2: keep doing their business. And uh, you don't know this,
Speaker 2: but you're about to find out that the FBI has
Speaker 2: been working with Mayor Jim Burke to bust one of
Speaker 2: the employees in city Hall and today is the day.
Speaker 3: For the silver bracelets to be slapped on their wrist. Wow.
Speaker 2: Mayor Jim Burke's face starts to lighten a little bit.
Speaker 2: He looks at the FBI guys. You're like, what's going
Speaker 2: on a moment? The excitement is just rippling through you.
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, Mayor Burke says to the
Speaker 2: three FBI agents, are we ready? You're like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: going down the one. The FBI guys replies, yes, let's
Speaker 2: bring her in. Mayor Burke picks up his telephone. He
Speaker 2: dials an extension in city Hall. People Bob bo bo bob,
Speaker 2: and then he waits, puts the phone on speaker mode.
Speaker 2: You can hear the down the hall ringing. You're like,
Speaker 2: did you call someone in the office. You hear a
Speaker 2: woman's voice at the other end. Hello, She's got a nice, sunny,
Speaker 2: you know, springtimey voice. Mayor Burke, very serious, very solemn,
Speaker 2: says Rita, would you mind stepping into my office for
Speaker 2: a minute. Rita replies sure.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: A moment later, her office door opens. You hear it,
Speaker 2: and also then you hear footsteps clean She's going down
Speaker 2: the hallway, the marble steps, her heels, they get louder,
Speaker 2: she gets closer. You're so anticipatory, you just cannot wait
Speaker 2: for the moment what is going to be happening. Rita
Speaker 2: pokes her head in the doorway that you're standing there
Speaker 2: in the doorway with her. Now she squeezes and she
Speaker 2: says hi, and everyone turns a three. FBI engagent's turn.
Speaker 2: Mayor Jim Burke turns. You just kind of just glance
Speaker 2: over at her because she's standing there right next to you.
Speaker 2: The FBI agents say, Rita, would you mind coming in?
Speaker 2: Mayor Burke reiterates, Rita, would you please mind stepping into
Speaker 2: my office? The lead FBI says, Hi, I'm with the FBI.
Speaker 2: That moment has come.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, it's going down now.
Speaker 2: He flashes his badge. Rita looks at it, and her
Speaker 2: face starts to break a little. She knows it's over
Speaker 2: her decades of lies, the fraud, the embezzlement, the scams,
Speaker 2: the cons all of it are coming crashing down. But
Speaker 2: yet her face doesn't fully show it. Just the hint
Speaker 2: of it is in her eyes. The lead FBI guy continues, Rita,
Speaker 2: we'd like to ask you some questions. Mayor Burke stares
Speaker 2: at Rita. Meanwhile, Rita's face still hasn't changed. It's just placid,
Speaker 2: and you're like, how is she doing this? She just
Speaker 2: keeps smiling. It just the small pert smile breaks on
Speaker 2: her face. It's almost midwestern and polite, super eerie, and
Speaker 2: then the FBI agent slapped the cuffs on her and
Speaker 2: they say she won't talk. They're taking into the office.
Speaker 2: They leave city Hall, they purp walk her out. Everybody
Speaker 2: is a gas They're all looking, Oh my goodness, it's Rita, Rita.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it's Rita. That moment was the moment
Speaker 2: when Mayor Jim Burke finally realize what we will call
Speaker 2: the Tao of Rita Crundwell, now what is the tao
Speaker 2: of Rita Crunwell? Well as it goes, he said, and
Speaker 2: I quote, it showed me she didn't give a about
Speaker 2: our town. Oh yeah, So how much did Rita exactly
Speaker 2: not give about the town of Dixon, Illinois?
Speaker 3: Tell me, can you guess? No, try the tune of
Speaker 3: fifty three million dollars? Fifty three million dollars fifty three
Speaker 3: million dollars. How did the town have that much money
Speaker 3: to begin with?
Speaker 2: Well, that was over multiple years. She was just basically
Speaker 2: siphoning off cash to pay for her horses, year after
Speaker 2: year after year after year from this small little town
Speaker 2: until she'd taken fifty three million dollars in The FBI
Speaker 2: showed up and said we'd like to talk to Rita.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you how excited I am that they
Speaker 3: didn't kick me out when they started doing this whole Rita,
Speaker 3: we need to talk to you. They just let me
Speaker 3: stand in the doorway. I like that.
Speaker 2: I knew you'd like to kind of just watch that
Speaker 2: same out. Yeah, the FBI is very generous, you know,
Speaker 2: in small.
Speaker 3: Town America, and they sent the FBI comes. It's not
Speaker 3: like state police or anything. So this is big time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't bring the US marshals to grab her.
Speaker 2: They wanted to talk with her and then to Couffer.
Speaker 2: So coincidentally, that fifty three million I just told you,
Speaker 2: that's the exact same amount that Kanye West was in
Speaker 2: bankruptcy for in twenty sixteen. Oh, he's now almost a billionaire.
Speaker 2: If he's not already a billionaire, I don't know who cares.
Speaker 2: But the point is is that's a sizable chunk of money.
Speaker 2: It's enough to turn you into a billionaire, and in
Speaker 2: this case, it was enough to pretty much bankrupt her hometown. Wow.
Speaker 2: Now let's say you stole fifty three million dollars, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: so we say it together.
Speaker 3: You still fifty three million million dollars.
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, Okay, oh good, Now you didn't donate any of it.
Speaker 2: You just had to spend all of it on yourself
Speaker 2: or stuff or whatever gifts. I don't care. What would
Speaker 2: you spend fifty three million, No, I'll limit it. What
Speaker 2: animal would you spend fifty three million dollars on?
Speaker 3: Oh? Dogs? Hello?
Speaker 2: Dog?
Speaker 3: Really you wouldn't go like big like peacocks or bears,
Speaker 3: or I would have a standing dog army that would
Speaker 3: be completely pampered. Okay, yeah, it would be wild.
Speaker 2: What would you do with your dog army? I mean,
Speaker 2: you got enough money to pamper them, so, like, how
Speaker 2: are you going to pamper.
Speaker 3: Them various acts of vengeance? No? I would would you
Speaker 3: have for them? Everyone gets their own bed so they
Speaker 3: don't all try and sleep on my bed. Okay, They
Speaker 3: get the finest of foods and table scraps. Okay, I
Speaker 3: don't know, buy like a bunch of acres and build
Speaker 3: my own dog parks.
Speaker 2: Like would you travel with them? Would you get like
Speaker 2: maybe like a very large trailer and a truck and
Speaker 2: you take them on a road trip around the country.
Speaker 3: With all their heads outside of exactly sunglasses on all
Speaker 3: of them. Oh, my god, I would get the nicest
Speaker 3: sunglasses for all the dogs. Everybody gets a pair of
Speaker 3: custom ray bands.
Speaker 2: Very nice, very nice.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 2: You're starting to now get what Rita Crundwell was about.
Speaker 3: Oh was she about that rude dude life.
Speaker 2: No, unfortunately she was just about that rude life. Now,
Speaker 2: after the short break, it's time to meet the star
Speaker 2: of our story, the embezzler extraordinariy Rita Crundwell.
Speaker 3: Elizabeth M.
Speaker 2: You used to live in a small town, you told me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the small town that we don't have to name it.
Speaker 2: But living in a small town, you know what it's like.
Speaker 2: Were there any any liars in your town? Anybody who
Speaker 2: got busted for a lie? Maybe it was like a
Speaker 2: divorce that all of a sudden came to light, a
Speaker 2: scandal with money.
Speaker 3: Was anything like that? Of course, human beings live there. Well, yes,
Speaker 3: I know, but.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, but in small towns, it's it's less likely
Speaker 2: that a secret emerges because people know the secret. It
Speaker 2: kind of gets whispered about, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't just get broken in the news. It's more
Speaker 2: like people knew about it and then it's like the
Speaker 2: news confirmed. Yeah, but that's about accurate.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, there are secrets that that are sort
Speaker 3: of known secrets. Everyone's in on it. But then sometimes
Speaker 3: you gets surprised.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be like the violent secrets, the marital secrets,
Speaker 2: the money secrets. But oftentimes there's the whisper networks of
Speaker 2: small towns that are totally very different than big cities, right, right,
Speaker 2: can't be anonymous, right exactly. Keep that in mind as
Speaker 2: I tell you how Rita Crundwell pulled off her fifty
Speaker 2: three million dollars theft.
Speaker 3: Of all of her How many people lived in this Dixon, Illinois.
Speaker 3: Sixteen thousand people? All right, yeah, that's pretty small, Yeah,
Speaker 3: pretty small. Well, that's big compared to where I was living.
Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, thirteen hundred people, Oh my god, sixteen
Speaker 3: thousand would be that's the big city.
Speaker 2: I going into the big city to get your checks cash.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's where like Starbucks is forty five minutes away. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 3: so I think that's yeah, in the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 3: practic pretty small town.
Speaker 2: Well getting to Dixon, Illinois, Rita Crunwell's hometown. Rita was
Speaker 2: one of six Crundwell kids. She grew up on the
Speaker 2: family farm. She was the type of teen who wore
Speaker 2: cowboy boots. She drove a beat up pickup truck. She
Speaker 2: was into four ah. She raised livestock, she competed in
Speaker 2: livestock shows, and she showed up in the lyrics. I
Speaker 2: think one or two John Cougar Mellencamp songs.
Speaker 3: That's gonna say. She sounds like a character in a
Speaker 3: New Country lyric.
Speaker 2: Yes, she's like Trayce Adkins, ideal girl.
Speaker 3: Drinking from a red solo cub, sitting in the pickup.
Speaker 2: Saying how much hey means to her? That reminds me
Speaker 2: of home. Now, Rita cronwells So, she was also a
Speaker 2: smart girl. She was a National Honor Society member. She
Speaker 2: was a popular girl, the kind of kid who gets
Speaker 2: nominated or elected. I don't know how it goes, but
Speaker 2: to her high school's homecoming court.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how that works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's elected. I don't know anyway. Rita
Speaker 2: Cronwell all American upbringing. Just keep that in mind. Now,
Speaker 2: one of the facts I just told you above is
Speaker 2: not true. I'll let you guess which one. Oh, John Cougar,
Speaker 2: mellencap Okay, So, Rita our former honor student. Girl with
Speaker 2: the big glasses, brown hair. Four it's kid cowboy boots
Speaker 2: got in your mind. Okay.
Speaker 3: She goes to work at the city hall thanks to
Speaker 3: her high school's work study program. So she's like a.
Speaker 2: Junior at the time. This is nineteen seventy okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy one, she graduates and then she
Speaker 2: takes a job, full time job at city hall. It's
Speaker 2: like it's a good job all town. So she's like,
Speaker 2: I'm keeping it around. That same time, Mayor he creates
Speaker 2: this new position called the town's comptroller. And the comptrollers
Speaker 2: you were familiar is, handles the money. They're a little
Speaker 2: bit different than say the treasurer. They are in charge
Speaker 2: of like writing the checks, making sure that the check
Speaker 2: book is balanced.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this person is important in the town to Dixon because,
Speaker 2: as I said earlier, Mayor Jim Burke part time mayor,
Speaker 2: city council, and city council members. Rather there's four of them.
Speaker 2: They're also all part time, so the city relies on
Speaker 2: some full time employees to handle city business. So Rita
Speaker 2: Cronwell joins this full time quatier of city hall employees
Speaker 2: and eventually she works her way up to treasurer and
Speaker 2: then from treasurer to comptroller. So it takes her about
Speaker 2: thirteen years. So now we're in nineteen eighty three, we're
Speaker 2: into the Reagan years of America. There is a new
Speaker 2: feeling about rural America. There's a new optimism coming out
Speaker 2: of the seventies and inflation. So people are they're having
Speaker 2: a little bit of a not a go go American moment,
Speaker 2: but the rural America is feeling better about themselves.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Rita takes that moment says, I'm feeling better about myself
Speaker 2: too now, Quicker than you can say Kevin Bacon and footloose.
Speaker 2: Rita Crundwell starts angling for how she can make her
Speaker 2: new appointment work for her. Takes her a little bit
Speaker 2: of time, about seven years. About at that time, she's like,
Speaker 2: I think I got to handle how I'm gonna scam
Speaker 2: this town. Now. Rita, she's really good with numbers, Like
Speaker 2: that's part of her bag is that she's exacting. She's
Speaker 2: detail oriented, and everybody knows this about her. It's it's
Speaker 2: her rep right. The mayor at the time of her
Speaker 2: arrest said, quote, Rita was very efficient, very pleasant, she
Speaker 2: got along with everyone, and she knew the job in
Speaker 2: and out. She seemed like a perfect fit. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 2: so that's her general mo o that everybody's reacting to.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, meanwhile, Rita is acting like a Banana Republic dictator.
Speaker 2: She decides to take total control of city Hall, which
Speaker 2: in this case means the flow of information. She has
Speaker 2: all of the paperwork that she deals with routed to
Speaker 2: a PO box so nobody can see the mail that
Speaker 2: is coming to her. Nope, the address that you normally
Speaker 2: would think of her where the mail would go city hall.
Speaker 2: The whole reason why you have a city hall was
Speaker 2: a building for business of city hall to We've be done,
Speaker 2: She's like, no, send that to my PO box. I'll
Speaker 2: do it at home. I'm a work from home kind
Speaker 2: of gown. This is like way before I work at home.
Speaker 3: Yeah. She's like, I'm a workaholic and this way I
Speaker 3: can work on the weekends. And I see you read it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you say you're onto it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Apparently in her small town everyone else was like, no,
Speaker 2: she's just so good at her work.
Speaker 3: Well, and one of the things that I noticed living
Speaker 3: in a small town is that you are sort of
Speaker 3: locked into your public persona when you're in high school,
Speaker 3: and so whoever you are in high school tends to
Speaker 3: follow you through. And so if you were like the
Speaker 3: handsome quarterback and then you just kind of keep screwing
Speaker 3: up later people are you know, but he was the
Speaker 3: handsome quarterback or the state, you're the weird outsider. It's
Speaker 3: hard to then change. And so she's like she it's
Speaker 3: hard to reinvent yourself, whereas like where I'm you know,
Speaker 3: born and raised California, that's like a pastime, right, mustant
Speaker 3: reinvention completely, but you're not. Really it's hard. It's hard
Speaker 3: in a small town. So I can see Rita if
Speaker 3: she just locks herself in in high school is like
Speaker 3: National Honor Society, doing work study, riding around in a
Speaker 3: pickup truck whatever, like doing all the right things for
Speaker 3: each everyone's gonna see her like that.
Speaker 2: Never they never took a second glance. You're so right
Speaker 2: about that. She apparently locked in and then she used that.
Speaker 2: I think she was aware of it, like you are
Speaker 2: that like this is all they see. So the meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Rita is like basically doing exactly what you're saying, is
Speaker 2: creating this persona that is impeccable and implacable in terms
Speaker 2: of like everybody thinks they know Rita, they have no
Speaker 2: idea who Rita is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So, like, for instance, to advance.
Speaker 2: Her idea of her being really frugal and meticulous about money,
Speaker 2: she always deducts money from her own salary for any
Speaker 2: day of work that she misses. Right now, what this
Speaker 2: means is if like she's out of office for like
Speaker 2: a week for to go to a horse show, We'll
Speaker 2: say she deducts that from her pay, and that balanced
Speaker 2: out that one year. She makes about eighty three thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a year, so she one year only made sixty
Speaker 2: one thousand dollars because she took twenty two thousand dollars
Speaker 2: off of her salary. So that way it would look like,
Speaker 2: you know, well.
Speaker 3: Did she not get vacation time or beyond? I think
Speaker 3: she may have used up her page. Oh so she's
Speaker 3: just above board, like yeah, look I'm taking leave without pay.
Speaker 3: You wh she go do horse.
Speaker 2: Stuff, horses shows and like travel. People don't know, they
Speaker 2: just know that she leaves.
Speaker 3: Wait a second, So she makes eighty g's a year
Speaker 3: and she took off twenty that's like a quarter of
Speaker 3: the time, she's not even there.
Speaker 2: I do math.
Speaker 3: Yes, they look at you a second semoke coming out
Speaker 3: of my ears.
Speaker 2: I was worried something caught fire. But yeah, nice work.
Speaker 3: Like that's like half half of her time.
Speaker 2: So they weren't doing this math. The local townspeople they're
Speaker 2: just so happy and they figured Rito was so good
Speaker 2: at a job. Meanwhile, that same time, when she's out sick,
Speaker 2: she has like a family member go to her po
Speaker 2: box and pick up her work to make sure that
Speaker 2: nobody ever sees it.
Speaker 3: Maybe they're using like the metric that I all jobs
Speaker 3: would do is like forget the eight hours a day,
Speaker 3: forty hour week. However, if you get your work done,
Speaker 3: then fine, you get paid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. That should be the stand.
Speaker 3: So let's be honest, like a quarter of our time
Speaker 3: is you know, busy work, messing her doing I don't know,
Speaker 3: crypto quip so yeah, for instance, for instance, I don't know,
Speaker 3: just you know, spitball in here, but I think you
Speaker 3: know she's she's laying out something now, she's doing nefarious things.
Speaker 3: But if we're all honest with ourselves, yeah, we could
Speaker 3: get all of our work done in three quarters of
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: She went way past I'm going to make the biggest
Speaker 2: ball of rubber bands I can. But I see your point,
Speaker 2: which is basically, you know, people should be able to
Speaker 2: work as much as their work is required of right,
Speaker 2: and not try to fill in some arbitrary oh you
Speaker 2: got to be here on the clock kind of stuff
Speaker 2: exactly completely, And Rita would agree with you.
Speaker 3: No, I don't like that.
Speaker 2: I know you don't want Tor on your side. In
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, Rita creates her fake dummy bank account and
Speaker 2: goes into business of Rita. She starts sidelining money and
Speaker 2: creating like well what will soon become a vast empire
Speaker 2: in fortune in the horse world. And the way she
Speaker 2: did it is she started a city account but in
Speaker 2: her name, okay, So that way she's the only signatory
Speaker 2: on the account. But as far as the bank is concerned,
Speaker 2: it's doing city business.
Speaker 3: So it's like City of Dixon.
Speaker 2: Exactly, okay, and with signatory Rita, Rita crime. So that's
Speaker 2: how she starts some in buzzle funds. And she likes it.
Speaker 3: She's into it, right, she gets after it.
Speaker 2: She's like a I don't know, a colonist in the
Speaker 2: New World She's like, Oh, look at all this value
Speaker 2: just lying around here. So her plan works because one
Speaker 2: there is this constant influx of new city leaders. Right
Speaker 2: the city council member and new mayor comes in. She
Speaker 2: teaches them the books, this is how the city works,
Speaker 2: this is what I do. So she teaches them her
Speaker 2: cooked books method. When the city auditors come in, because
Speaker 2: she was smart about this, starting about somewhere in the
Speaker 2: mid eighties, she started basically faking the records. Nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: when she creates her false account and starts diverting funds.
Speaker 2: By that point she has all these records that are fake.
Speaker 2: So the auditors looking back seven years they have a
Speaker 2: false record. They don't yeah, so they can't see it either.
Speaker 2: The local town is you know, they're the banks that
Speaker 2: are supposed to be in charge of the accounts that
Speaker 2: they keep getting bought up by national banks, so that
Speaker 2: there no longer is that nosy bank manager who's paying
Speaker 2: attention to how often Rita is coming in in diverting funds.
Speaker 2: She's just sitting at home clicking buttons now and Dundale.
Speaker 2: So there's no oversight either officially by the money cops.
Speaker 2: There's no oversight by the bank managers, and there's no
Speaker 2: oversight by her bosses.
Speaker 3: Wow right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: So at this point, the only thing that's holding it
Speaker 2: together is that everybody, as I keep pointing out, is
Speaker 2: so convinced that Rita is just so darn good at
Speaker 2: her job rights. And I'll quote Mayor Jim Burke again,
Speaker 2: he was just like enamored as mayor. He didn't have
Speaker 2: to work very hard because if he needed anything done,
Speaker 2: he just went to Rita. She knew right where it was,
Speaker 2: so quote I could go unto her and say, Rita,
Speaker 2: do you have a copy of the cable TV contract
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty six? And she'd go right to a
Speaker 2: drawer and pull it out. How did you argue with that?
Speaker 3: I trust her with the nuclear code exactly.
Speaker 2: So, just you know, imagine poor Jim burk surprise when
Speaker 2: the FBI showed up a city hall for Rita.
Speaker 3: But of course he did know at that point. Well
Speaker 3: wait a second, so what if everything is getting not everything,
Speaker 3: but if she's diverting significant funds, is the town up
Speaker 3: and running? Well, I mean, oh no, not at all.
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing is so like they couldn't afford
Speaker 2: to repair the cemetery like they had problems with their cemetery.
Speaker 2: Their streets were going bad, the street lights weren't working.
Speaker 2: They couldn't get uniforms and radar guns for the cops.
Speaker 2: They had basketball courts at all broken ups. The kids
Speaker 2: can't play on them. They had to go without city
Speaker 2: jobs or pay increases for years. It was bad.
Speaker 3: But Rita knows where the cable contract is exactly.
Speaker 2: As long as you find that, What does mayor Jim
Speaker 2: Burke's really care about the rest of day?
Speaker 3: Goodness?
Speaker 2: No, but I just like to focus on Rita for
Speaker 2: a second. Can you imagine being her like lying to
Speaker 2: everyone you know, everyone you grew up with, everyone you
Speaker 2: work with every day of your life for decades, and
Speaker 2: just creating this larger and larger divide between you and
Speaker 2: who people think you are and who they're giving you
Speaker 2: credit for you. You're not Rita Crundwell anymore.
Speaker 3: No, And she must have the lowest opinion of every
Speaker 3: other human being to r No, she's sociopathic or is
Speaker 3: she just something else?
Speaker 2: And I don't mean to do a diagnose her.
Speaker 3: I'm I don't know, I don't know. I'm sure she's
Speaker 3: got a whole host of issues. I'm wondering just about
Speaker 3: what happened to her. Rita who hurts you, I know, right.
Speaker 2: So the thing that we do know is that Rita
Speaker 2: did it for one for the glamour. Oh we know
Speaker 2: what her motivation was other than the horses. It wasn't
Speaker 2: just the horses. It was also Rita elects, the diamonds,
Speaker 2: the fur, the bright lights of the big city. And
Speaker 2: in this case, the big city is Oklahoma City. Well
Speaker 2: it's a big city, sure, Okay, yeah, I mean like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is a big city if you're from Dickson, Illinois.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's not like, oh, she's out in Manhattan.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not trying to say it. Every city
Speaker 2: has to be measured against New York. But there are
Speaker 2: a lot of big cities in this world. And I
Speaker 2: will put Oklahoma City up. Oklahoma, I like that about you.
Speaker 2: My apologies, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: City, well Arts District.
Speaker 2: Oh No, I like the city. I'm not like saying
Speaker 2: anything bad. I just wouldn't say that it's a big
Speaker 2: city in America, you know, like Houston. Houston's a big
Speaker 2: city in America. The Oklahoma City, I mean a big heart. Yes,
Speaker 2: it is a beautiful city with a big heart. The
Speaker 2: American quarter Horse Association's World Championship Show. It happens to
Speaker 2: be in Oklahoma City every year.
Speaker 3: What do you know? Yeah, and uh, that place is.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever been to the American
Speaker 2: quarter Horse Association World Championship Show.
Speaker 3: But I missed it.
Speaker 2: Oh then I don't need to tell you. But just
Speaker 2: for my own edification, I'll remind you that it is
Speaker 2: possibly one of the largest collections of humans you know
Speaker 2: that takes place on the North American continent. Bigger than
Speaker 2: Democratic national conventions, better than the Republican National Convention. It's
Speaker 2: bigger than the Super Bowl. It's hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 2: people coming into Oklahoma City just talking horses, walking horses,
Speaker 2: looking at horses, just being all about horse life for days.
Speaker 2: Yeah whatever, Yeah, that horsey life, horse horse life. So
Speaker 2: like the type of people that you would see in town,
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City during the quarter Horse Association World Championship Show.
Speaker 2: People like Harrison Ford, Kevin Costner, Robert Redford, Lyle love it.
Speaker 2: So all those celebrities that you can think of is
Speaker 2: like I can imagine him with a horse. The horsey set,
Speaker 2: the horsey set people are down for that horse life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so Rita crunwell, she would like to go and do
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City. And whenever she would go, she would show
Speaker 2: out for bikinis. Not that kind of show out, but
Speaker 2: but she would put a show on a show. I'll
Speaker 2: just leave it at that. So the floor of the arena,
Speaker 2: because just imagine like a giant like basketball stadium or
Speaker 2: football indorse, football stadium, right, So on the floor of
Speaker 2: that stadium you would have convention stalls and booze, and
Speaker 2: Rita would down be down there with everybody else. But
Speaker 2: instead of having like a table on the stall, she
Speaker 2: would have, for instance, a log cabin recreated for the event. Wait,
Speaker 2: an entire an entire log cabin.
Speaker 3: It's like, hey, look, dude, was Abraham Lincoln born there?
Speaker 3: What's going on here?
Speaker 2: Now? That was just the entrance to her section. Once
Speaker 2: you stepped inside the recreation log cabin, you'd be greeted
Speaker 2: by the sight of the glitter and the shine of
Speaker 2: her trophy room she had. You had to walk past
Speaker 2: all of her trophies.
Speaker 3: Like a pageant kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like total pagan kid. And she had like
Speaker 2: that love of like I don't know, ribbons, that whatever,
Speaker 2: it is that motivates the passion for ribbons. She wanted
Speaker 2: everyone to see her ribbon collection gold plastic. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: She's like, look at this, this is etched, has my
Speaker 2: name on it. It's magical. So after the gleam of
Speaker 2: her trophy room wears off and you wander further into
Speaker 2: the recreated log cabin, then you meet the full open
Speaker 2: bar that she has arrayed for her guests, and there
Speaker 2: you could grab a cocktail, all courtesy of Rita Crunwell.
Speaker 2: And now I like to imagine, you know, one of
Speaker 2: this Horsey set sitting in that recreated log cabin with her.
Speaker 2: Let's say Harrison Ford, all right, and he's like raising
Speaker 2: a glass talking horses to Rita, and Rita's telling him
Speaker 2: how good it was this year, and he's telling her
Speaker 2: how good the whiskey is. And she's like, oh, you
Speaker 2: like the whiskey. And he's like, yep, oh what am
Speaker 2: I doing it? You're the celebrity and profession you're the professional. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: would you mind being Harrison Ford for a second. I'm
Speaker 2: happy to okay, So I'm Rita. So she's like, imagine
Speaker 2: the scene. She's like, oh, yeah, I sitting there surrounded
Speaker 2: by log cabins, people elbow hobnobbin, talking horses and horse
Speaker 2: trailers or whatever they talk about. She's like more Champagne
Speaker 2: Harrison Ford.
Speaker 3: M hm, hey, but that is me, Harrison Ford, a
Speaker 3: flying airplane and I eat play though see flawless.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like you're in the log cabin with
Speaker 2: Rita and Harrison or as I call him, Harry. Now,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm sorry, I have to apologize with
Speaker 2: I totally forgot to tell you how she's dressed at
Speaker 2: these events.
Speaker 3: Practically practically real close.
Speaker 2: So just put a little bit more fur on it
Speaker 2: and make it like a full white fur coat, like
Speaker 2: you know, like white, I don't know, snow leopard fur
Speaker 2: or something exotic, something endangered, and then diamonds and like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, a tiara.
Speaker 3: It's going hard. It's kind of more than I anticipated.
Speaker 3: I thought she'd be like in TJ Max's Finest.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, she's got like the beaded tops or
Speaker 2: whatever those things are, like the sequins and beads.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the lame bryant of it all.
Speaker 3: I'm just imagining with the beaded tops that instead it's
Speaker 3: like those beaded seat covers for cab drivers.
Speaker 2: Not quite those big like like a wooden.
Speaker 3: Macro made top exactly. She's very experimental. She's very fashioned forward.
Speaker 2: Like so fashion forward you can't even see her. She's
Speaker 2: just down the line to hope that she's out there still.
Speaker 3: She's just in like a milar suit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was real. I thought you would appreciate her, like,
Speaker 2: I see if I can find some pictures and we
Speaker 2: put them on Instagram. She has a real best in
Speaker 2: show vibe to her outfits. And I know how you
Speaker 2: I love that movie go for that. Yeah, kimonos, we
Speaker 2: just kind of imagine that, but less fun, more crime.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Also, what is your favorite like middle
Speaker 2: aged woman's fashion tendency? Like I was trying to think of,
Speaker 2: like what stores it is that she's probably shopping at.
Speaker 3: Stated, That's what I was.
Speaker 2: That's only when I could go with and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't mean to just pick on the Chico's woman.
Speaker 2: Is there like another brand that is j Jill j Jill?
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know. I'd have to know her full
Speaker 3: aesthetic to give it a good assessment. Is she like
Speaker 3: a is she a department store?
Speaker 2: Gal No, no, are you kidding me? No, she is
Speaker 2: definitely boutique as much as possible. No. I mean occasionally,
Speaker 2: if she can't get out of Dixon, she may have to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, get her jeans at the local store. But
Speaker 2: other than that.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, there was a woman in the horse scene
Speaker 2: who knew her very well, and she was talking in
Speaker 2: a newspaper article. And I found this and I thought,
Speaker 2: thistle answer Elizabeth question. So she clalked Rita's style to
Speaker 2: time and I quote, this is about her beaded gowns
Speaker 2: that you would wear to these events, like at the
Speaker 2: nighttime formal event at the American quarter Horse Association's World
Speaker 2: Championship show, and I quote, they're beautiful. I went to
Speaker 2: look at a couple of the blouses she wore. The
Speaker 2: used ones were eighteen hundred dollars a pop, and Rita
Speaker 2: didn't wear used I thought, gad zeukes the Midwestern jumped out, didn't.
Speaker 3: It, dad zoos? So she's like wearing designer duds. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Do you think she wore Carl Lagerfeld, Sure, because didn't
Speaker 3: he eat horse meat?
Speaker 2: Oh god, I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 3: Making that up is that's true, I make up most
Speaker 3: of what I say, but I do believe that it's
Speaker 3: true that Carl Lagerfeld was on like a horse meat diet.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of French people eat horse meat.
Speaker 2: I'm aware of that. They do eat horse meat over there,
Speaker 2: and I just tried to forget like.
Speaker 3: The synergy of her wearing lager films and.
Speaker 2: Eating horse meat, Carl.
Speaker 3: Horse meat.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about the horse meat part.
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't had. Carl Lagerfeld lost ninety pounds on
Speaker 3: a diet of tuna and BlackBerry moose.
Speaker 2: I'm not hearing horse meat.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, No, it was rumored that Carl Lagerfeld's famous
Speaker 3: diet involved eating horse meat, tomatoes, and diet.
Speaker 2: Coke altogether of Vogue, Thank you Vogue.
Speaker 3: A slurry of horse meat, tomatoes and dyke.
Speaker 2: Slurry of horse meat. Thank you Vogue for something I'll
Speaker 2: never forget. And thank you Elizabeth for yet another gross dropping.
Speaker 3: A gross up. Oh calf's liver too. In Wild Straw.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you asked about Rita and what people
Speaker 2: thought about her and money.
Speaker 3: So speaking of Rita, speaking of Rita.
Speaker 2: Crundwell and whether or not she came from money or not.
Speaker 2: People used to wonder if she'd inherited land from her family,
Speaker 2: and uh, you know it's true. She actually had inherited
Speaker 2: a horse farm from her mother. The details may have varied,
Speaker 2: but the general story was the same. Someone died, she
Speaker 2: got wealthy, right, That's like the story around the horse world. Now,
Speaker 2: that was pretty true. A whole ass town was literally
Speaker 2: dying and she got welcome. So there was the death man,
Speaker 2: well shark other everything else. The details a little wrong. Now,
Speaker 2: when Rita would arrive at a horse show before she
Speaker 2: would you know, set up her bass Pro shop Lincoln
Speaker 2: log cabin, before any drinks got poured for any horse
Speaker 2: loving stars like Lyle love It. Oh wait, I gotta
Speaker 2: do one more. Would you like some more Champagne Lyle loving?
Speaker 3: Hey everybody, it's me Lyle love It. I just stole
Speaker 3: Temple grand and shirt.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's like he's just here for a moment,
Speaker 2: then he disappears.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get I transform.
Speaker 2: No, thank you for gracing us with that one. I
Speaker 2: always liked those.
Speaker 3: That one's on the house.
Speaker 2: Before Rita would pull on her white fur coat or
Speaker 2: for you, her white fur bikini and some hot little
Speaker 2: sequin number to dazzle the horsey crowd. Rita also like
Speaker 2: to make a big splash in the parking lotch she
Speaker 2: would like, I don't mean like jumping from a hike,
Speaker 2: like jumping. She didn't do it that way, not like
Speaker 2: pushing a watermelon off the top of a building splash.
Speaker 2: I mean like she wanted people to be like, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's Rita kind of walk on music pretty much. It
Speaker 2: was just like the sound of pain and suffering in
Speaker 2: her hometown. But drum beat was amazing. No, before she
Speaker 2: would get there, she would like have like her fleet
Speaker 2: arrive right. And her fleet consisted of a forty five
Speaker 2: foot Liberty Coach RV. And in case you're not in
Speaker 2: the market for RVs, that's one of the nicest ones
Speaker 2: that you can get. Yeah, so that one is the
Speaker 2: luxury liner of mobile forty five foot long Liberty Coach
Speaker 2: RV forty five long, way bigger than like your normal
Speaker 2: like a tour bus. Now, this boasted a king sized bed,
Speaker 2: five satellite TVs, marble countertops, leather wrapped railings, multiple tile floors,
Speaker 2: multiple tile floors, also a washer and dryer. I don't
Speaker 2: even have one of those in my apartment. Now, this
Speaker 2: whole thing costs two million dollars. Two million dollars for
Speaker 2: an RV.
Speaker 3: Great day in the morning.
Speaker 2: Do you know how much of Dixon, Illinois you could
Speaker 2: fix with that RV? No, of course, she didn't handle
Speaker 2: her horses herself. Now, Rita had professional cowboys for all
Speaker 2: that she didn't like brush down the maine and tail.
Speaker 3: She just would do boys.
Speaker 2: So there's the stall, set up the horses, right, So
Speaker 2: she'd have them mucking out the trailers and all that
Speaker 2: stuff that she didn't want to do. But those cowboys
Speaker 2: they weren't cheap either, so she had to have a
Speaker 2: trailer for them and then have you know, lodging.
Speaker 3: For them and so forth. She had a mighty convoy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but she was really successful with this because
Speaker 2: of how much money she was diverting into her horsey funds.
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, just before this is right before Rita
Speaker 2: gets busted. She gets busted in twenty twelve, the year
Speaker 2: before she gets busted, when she went to the American
Speaker 2: quarter Horse Association World Championship Show in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3: That's a mouthful, quite She was the bell of the
Speaker 3: ball that year. She won fifty four prizes at the
Speaker 3: Oklahoma Any of those money or is it just all
Speaker 3: a bunch of other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's wanting some ribbons and some prize money. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like quarter million dollars kind of prize money.
Speaker 3: She was named the leading.
Speaker 2: Owner of the American quarter Horse Association that year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's pouring a bunch of money into the whole
Speaker 3: thing completely.
Speaker 2: Eighth year in a row, she was named Owner of
Speaker 2: the Year. I'll tell you your hometown's harder, and money
Speaker 2: goes far if you direct it in one tight funnel. Now,
Speaker 2: the only thing that her friends and neighbors knew about
Speaker 2: what Rita was doing down in Oklahoma City came to
Speaker 2: them from the newspaper articles because they would, like, you know,
Speaker 2: see like a headline, Oh Rita won again down to
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City.
Speaker 3: We're so proud of her.
Speaker 2: So going back to my man Mayor, Big Jim Burke,
Speaker 2: he was quoted talking about how all this prize money
Speaker 2: Rita was winning shown by the newspapers. He said, and
Speaker 2: I quote, we all knew that she had these horses,
Speaker 2: but you know, there were big write ups about her
Speaker 2: in the papers, and she's winning all these national championships,
Speaker 2: and there were stories flying around town that she was
Speaker 2: selling horses for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars three
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. So we thought this was what that was,
Speaker 2: what was providing her this nice income, a successful horse business. Now,
Speaker 2: when she was caught by the FBI, Rita, as I
Speaker 2: told you, was the officially the fifth greatest embezzler of
Speaker 2: all time. That's how successful her horse business this was.
Speaker 2: Now she's like the Larry Bird of embezzlement, just this
Speaker 2: hard worker from the heartland. You know. Now, personally, if
Speaker 2: I was someone to ask me, like, what do you
Speaker 2: do for a living, I'm not going to say anything
Speaker 2: about my real life anymore. I'm going to use the
Speaker 2: Rita Crundwell method. I'm gonna start telling people, Oh, all
Speaker 2: my money it's in walruses. I'm in the walrus business.
Speaker 2: See if people go for it. I really like this.
Speaker 2: We'll take a quick break and after this I'll tell
Speaker 2: you how Rita got busted. Elizabeth. Yes, our girl, Rita Crundwell.
Speaker 2: I've been telling you about her. I've been telling you
Speaker 2: about Harrison ford Lyle. Love it, all the fun stuff
Speaker 2: she's been doing. But what else was she spending her
Speaker 2: stolen loot on besides impressing Harrison Ford with expensive whiskeys
Speaker 2: and champagne scented candles. Good call, good call. No, she
Speaker 2: was actually buying land.
Speaker 3: Well that's smart. Yeah, that's what you.
Speaker 2: You know, they aren't making it anymore, as Mark Twain
Speaker 2: would say, yep. Well, starting in two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: Rita she made some real estate purchases and she bought
Speaker 2: an eighty eight acre spread that cost her about half
Speaker 2: million dollars of her hometown's money. She dubbed her new
Speaker 2: spread Rita's Ranch. Now, personally, I would have gone with
Speaker 2: Casa de Rita, but that's just me. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You know, you had a name like Rita, you can.
Speaker 3: Really rude Marta Ritaville.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. See already two better names right there. We're
Speaker 2: not even trying. So it was a complete horse breeding complex,
Speaker 2: training exercise compound. She even had a whole arena built
Speaker 2: for her to practice in. Just imagine her riding around
Speaker 2: the horses with an empty arena, her imagining the crowds
Speaker 2: cheering her.
Speaker 3: She had like a button she pushed in the sound
Speaker 3: of crowds. Confetti cannons all shaped like butterflies.
Speaker 2: Yes, Carrie, I know I threw that one in there
Speaker 2: from r carries a tour rider. She requests that there
Speaker 2: be confetti in her dressing room that must be the
Speaker 2: shape of butterflies. No moth confetti for miss Mimi. Now,
Speaker 2: as I told you, rita Cronwell salary from the City
Speaker 2: of Dixon eighty three thousand dollars. So people are willing
Speaker 2: to believe that this eighty three thousand dollars salary is
Speaker 2: being very well invested apparently. Yeah, So while she was
Speaker 2: a hob nubbing with the rich and famous in her
Speaker 2: white fur and her diamonds and tr or whatever she
Speaker 2: was doing, that was her one persona back home, She's
Speaker 2: still like all of her neighbors. She's wearing the you know,
Speaker 2: the boots a cow the cowboy, you know, flannels, like
Speaker 2: she looks like everybody else. And that is pretty much
Speaker 2: how she manages her whole criminal enterprise. Nobody looks past
Speaker 2: the surface of what she looks like as a middle
Speaker 2: aged woman.
Speaker 3: That's at the time. And in a small town, it's
Speaker 3: a lot of money. Today in a small town, making
Speaker 3: eighty three thousand dollars is a lot of money.
Speaker 2: It's not enough for a two million dollar RV.
Speaker 3: No do they not? Does the town know about the
Speaker 3: two million or ask to park it?
Speaker 2: I mean, she comes back to town with this compleet
Speaker 2: of cars under cover of darkness. She had like full
Speaker 2: on eighteen wheelers pulling horse trailers. Multiple she had multiple
Speaker 2: eighteen wheelers in her canoy convoy.
Speaker 3: She's probably just telling you know what, I got a
Speaker 3: great deal. If you go to the back of Tjmax,
Speaker 3: they have all the cars and trucks, ask for Cheryl'll
Speaker 3: people don't know. And then if you kind of bump
Speaker 3: it a little scratch that, you get another twenty percent off.
Speaker 2: Where do you think I got this bracelet?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Everything is she got a deal.
Speaker 2: The US district court that filed the indictment against her,
Speaker 2: they would not agree that she got great deals because
Speaker 2: they had actually the itemized list of all of her stuff.
Speaker 2: And I'll just read you a couple of the highlights.
Speaker 2: Between nineteen ninety and two thousand and six, she stole
Speaker 2: about twenty three million dollars. Oh wow, So that's that's
Speaker 2: when she got started in nineteen ninety two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: Twenty three million dollars over that sixteen year period, that
Speaker 2: gives you an average of about one point four million
Speaker 2: dollars a year. Right after she got going in two
Speaker 2: thousand and six, she starts ram printed up and she
Speaker 2: starts trying to win some of them championships, and world
Speaker 2: championships are not cheap. So she sat there and wrapped
Speaker 2: it back up to taking it about five million dollars
Speaker 2: a year and embezzled money.
Speaker 3: What is the town's budget every year?
Speaker 2: The town's budget, I'm glad you asked, is nine million
Speaker 2: dollars roughly. Oh, so she's taking more than half of
Speaker 2: the town's budget. When she got really going, and those
Speaker 2: engines were running red hot goodness, and they still weren't
Speaker 2: noticing it, and you know how she was getting away
Speaker 2: with it, but she was blaming the state of Illinois.
Speaker 2: She said that like, oh, they're supposed to pay for
Speaker 2: this stuff that I charged and I put the money out,
Speaker 2: but they haven't, so next year we should get the money.
Speaker 2: And people believed it because they're like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: the state lawmakers are always stealing our money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one really pays attention to local They'll pay
Speaker 3: attention when the basketball courts are all checked up, but
Speaker 3: then they don't know the minute show of no and
Speaker 3: also he's counting on it.
Speaker 2: They like big mayor, Big Jim Burke. Right, he's a
Speaker 2: local guy. But they don't seem to like the state
Speaker 2: lawmakers or the governor. Like those people are not trustworthy.
Speaker 3: I don't like you read a Crundwell here understand small
Speaker 3: town values.
Speaker 2: Yes, like so, rita Crundwell. She meets fate One day when,
Speaker 2: unbeknownst to her, while she is away on one of
Speaker 2: her vacations or in this case, attending a horse show,
Speaker 2: a piece of mail arrives and it's a bank statement,
Speaker 2: and it's been basically sent to the wrong place, and
Speaker 2: it's on her desk, and this replacement for her. This
Speaker 2: the city clerk who's in her office trying to go
Speaker 2: through all the paperwork. She sees this one thing, sees
Speaker 2: it looks like she's on a bank reads it. It's
Speaker 2: a bank statement. She doesn't recognize the account, so she
Speaker 2: takes the account to the mayor. Maryor Jim Burke's like,
Speaker 2: I don't recognize this. Ask Rita what it is. She's like, no,
Speaker 2: I think that's the problem.
Speaker 3: It looks like this is Rita's account.
Speaker 2: Mary's like, oh, I can't be. She's like, no, I
Speaker 2: think it is.
Speaker 3: They look. He's like, oh my goodness, I love this
Speaker 3: nosey hero.
Speaker 2: Yes, I thought you would like her. So her name
Speaker 2: is Kaitha Swanson.
Speaker 3: By the way, well miss Swanson. First of all, I
Speaker 3: believe there was a whisper network in town. Everybody knew
Speaker 3: about this. It wasn't a secret. And she didn't just
Speaker 3: see something on the desk. She went dig in.
Speaker 2: I think she took her moment when Rita was out
Speaker 2: of the office. He's like, what's this, what's that? And
Speaker 2: went through it all.
Speaker 3: Well done investigator.
Speaker 2: Special investigator Kata Swanson. So Kaitha and Mayor Jim Burke
Speaker 2: have their moment together in his office. He's convinced by
Speaker 2: her to go take this to the FBI. He takes
Speaker 2: to the FBI. FI is like, oh, yeah, this is
Speaker 2: not good.
Speaker 3: This is not good.
Speaker 2: Mayor, Hey, Mayor, we want you don't blow the investigation
Speaker 2: we're about to start. Don't let anybody know. We need
Speaker 2: you to keep this under your hat. And he's like,
Speaker 2: I think I can do that, Like, no, we're serious.
Speaker 2: This may take some time. It's a small town. Don't
Speaker 2: tell anybody, not even like your closest friends. He's like,
Speaker 2: I tell my wife. They're like, okay, if you tell
Speaker 2: your wife, mayor just nobody else, don't take club. Nobody
Speaker 2: in American legion needs to know this one. He's like, okay,
Speaker 2: Like when can I tell them? When we boss Diard
Speaker 2: He's like, okay, how long will that be? And then
Speaker 2: they're like, just let us do our work. Six months later,
Speaker 2: they come into his office. They're like, we're going to
Speaker 2: need to talk to Rita. And that's why he's like,
Speaker 2: oh man, he's all excited. And that was the day
Speaker 2: that you were standing in the doorway.
Speaker 3: I remember it well. Yes.
Speaker 2: So what the FBI found was that Rita had basically taken,
Speaker 2: as I told you, a dummy bank account, but not
Speaker 2: only that, she'd created multiple bank accounts for the city
Speaker 2: that were legitimate. She would bounce the money through those
Speaker 2: different accounts, then she would create a fake invoice, send
Speaker 2: the money into that fake invoice account, use the fake
Speaker 2: invoice account, then to dummy back out to her account,
Speaker 2: and then she was hiding both the writing of the checks,
Speaker 2: the bouncing of the books, and where the money was going.
Speaker 2: So people were thinking it all looks fine. The amounts
Speaker 2: seemed to balance out because they didn't notice that she
Speaker 2: was the one who was, you know, saying you owe
Speaker 2: me money. You owe me six million dollars or whatever
Speaker 2: she was saying. So that's how you get a payday
Speaker 2: for Rita is you know, classic money laundering. You know,
Speaker 2: jay Z would be proud to her, so after she
Speaker 2: would withdraw her laundered funds and she'd go and buy
Speaker 2: all verus expensive stuff. The thing that was kind of
Speaker 2: working to her benefit, as I've pointed out a couple
Speaker 2: of times, is people didn't look past her appearance.
Speaker 3: And yet she was very aware of this.
Speaker 2: She would put on an appearance for the Oklahoma people,
Speaker 2: she would come home and take off that and she
Speaker 2: knew that people wouldn't do anything except for your girl,
Speaker 2: Katha Swanson Keith, Yeah. Now that is the advantage that
Speaker 2: con artists have over average people is that they know
Speaker 2: that a person is usually persuaded more by a good
Speaker 2: story than by facts. You're KEITHA and you you guys
Speaker 2: are rare who actually want to see the numbers on paper,
Speaker 2: want to investigate, want to get confirmation. Most people are
Speaker 2: like I heard readA her mother died left or a farm.
Speaker 2: That's good enough for them.
Speaker 3: That's what they have.
Speaker 2: And so if you can tell a good story, you
Speaker 2: can be a good con artist. Do you think, as
Speaker 2: a former school teacher and a storyteller, that you could
Speaker 2: be a good con artist?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 3: I'd feel really bad at my mark. My victim would
Speaker 3: have to be a horrible person, and then I would
Speaker 3: feel bad about it.
Speaker 2: That's totally that's the way within the balance. You don't
Speaker 2: have to only go after the innocent gullible.
Speaker 3: But I also have too many tells. I'm not good
Speaker 3: at lying. Yeah, it becomes real obvious.
Speaker 2: Here's how you can get good at lying. This is
Speaker 2: true for anything. Don't think you're lying if you believe
Speaker 2: your story. No, I mean, I know this sounds ridiculous,
Speaker 2: but you'd have to believe that this momentarily is the truth.
Speaker 2: And if you do that, your body will behave as
Speaker 2: if it's the truth. If you can just tell yourself,
Speaker 2: I will momentarily live under these imaginary circumstances. That's how
Speaker 2: you become a good liar. That's also how you become
Speaker 2: a good actor. Same things, the exact same. You have
Speaker 2: to emotionally convince yourself. You convince yourself. You can convince
Speaker 2: anything that's true.
Speaker 3: I could see that, So I think you could be
Speaker 3: should I practice start cutting people?
Speaker 2: Let's be able to talk about this. You can develop
Speaker 2: a whole routine for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll sign up for your classes.
Speaker 2: But in all honesty, as a teacher, you would you
Speaker 2: agree that a story is more persuasive than facts.
Speaker 3: I think so, well. I don't know, not in my
Speaker 3: time as a as an instructor, but I would say
Speaker 3: that as a writer, you know you can. You can
Speaker 3: get people to believe all sorts of things. You can
Speaker 3: get them to change what's true to them. So not
Speaker 3: necessarily facts, but everyone has.
Speaker 2: Their own truth, their interpretation.
Speaker 3: But yeah, whatever is true to someone, and you can,
Speaker 3: if you tell a good enough story, you can.
Speaker 2: Rearrange the value of the facts totally. Well, that's exactly
Speaker 2: what Rita did. Now, getting to a couple of the
Speaker 2: facts that people overlooked that I think would have been
Speaker 2: somewhat suspicious to me if I were living in Dixon, Illinois.
Speaker 2: Here's an example of some of the horses that she named.
Speaker 2: People would see these names in print, like so and
Speaker 2: so one like Rita Cronwell one with and these are
Speaker 2: the horses names, right, Okay, we'll play a little game.
Speaker 2: Four horses. I'm going to name three are real?
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Number one I'm money too. Number two I found a penny.
Speaker 2: Number three good, I will be number four Dixon Illinois
Speaker 2: can suck it.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. What do you think is not
Speaker 3: the real horse name the penny? No Dixon, No, it's good,
Speaker 3: I will be.
Speaker 2: No, I'm hitting him.
Speaker 3: Illinois.
Speaker 2: But all of her horse names are about money or
Speaker 2: be like trickery. And people are like, yeah, that's just
Speaker 2: let's your inch risks.
Speaker 3: No, good old Rita well right under their noses. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, when the US Marshalls showed up, they had to
Speaker 2: collect all the ill gotten gains Rita had gotten over
Speaker 2: the decades she'd been fleecing everyone in town. They showed
Speaker 2: up and they find four hundred horses that they now
Speaker 2: have to move.
Speaker 3: Four hundred, four hundred horse.
Speaker 2: Remember some of these horses are worth two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars apiece.
Speaker 3: Wow, exactly. So the DJ is like, oh man, what
Speaker 3: are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: They called up, I don't know, the cowboy US Marshals
Speaker 2: and they started like putting them in trailers and wrangling
Speaker 2: them up and going off.
Speaker 3: She had them like a horse infestation. Dude.
Speaker 2: They had to have a whole auction for all of
Speaker 2: her stuff, and then a large part of the stuff
Speaker 2: was hers her family bought back for her with what money? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So here's the list of some of the stuff that
Speaker 2: the DOJ took from her. Two single family homes in Dixon.
Speaker 2: A single family home in Inglewood, Florida. A horse farm
Speaker 2: in Dixon. The custom Liberty Coach motor home. They worth
Speaker 2: two million dollars. The Featherlight trailer also worth about a
Speaker 2: quarter million dollars. That's for pulling horses and so forth.
Speaker 2: A bunch of Chevy Silverado trucks because at least she
Speaker 2: knew good value. Some GMC trucks, but really those should
Speaker 2: have been dodges because they were cowboys, because that's what
Speaker 2: cowboys and cowgirls drive.
Speaker 3: But whatever.
Speaker 2: A Kenworth tractor truck, which was worth about two hundred grand.
Speaker 2: A freight liner truck these are the eighteen wheelers that
Speaker 2: are pulling the trailers, also worth two hundred grand. A
Speaker 2: Ford Thunderbird, a classic sixty seven Chevy Corvette once again
Speaker 2: nose class. And lastly a bunch of John deer utility vehicles,
Speaker 2: tractors and riding moment nothing rides like a deer, nothing
Speaker 2: at all. Then that's just the homes in vehicles. So
Speaker 2: imagine everything else. You got all the horse stuff, and
Speaker 2: the machinis for bikinis, and the various sent in candles
Speaker 2: find Corinthian leather bound books exactly. So on April seventeenth,
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, at the time of her arrest, in her
Speaker 2: bank account, she had one hundred and ninety one thousand,
Speaker 2: three hundred and seventy five dollars and seventy five cents.
Speaker 2: Because you know, it's also good at math, the doj
Speaker 2: and they made sure to get every penny.
Speaker 3: So this was twenty twelve. When did she start eighty
Speaker 3: three eighty two.
Speaker 2: She starts scamming in nineteen ninety. Okay, she gets the
Speaker 2: job in eighty three. Ticks are about seven years to
Speaker 2: cook the books. In that nineteen ninety she gets going
Speaker 2: and then for six a long run exactly. So the
Speaker 2: city of Dixon meanwhile left holding an empty bag. Yes exactly,
Speaker 2: They're like, what are we gonna do? Now?
Speaker 3: I told you they had like basically lost all this stuff.
Speaker 2: The cops couldn't get radar guns, the kids couldn't have
Speaker 2: basketball uniforms.
Speaker 3: Were out there with hair dryers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just pretending that they have, Like, don't look too
Speaker 2: close the year agoing forty eight thirty five. Now they
Speaker 2: did all that obviously, so Rita can have her little
Speaker 2: my little pony collectionist show horses and like, you gotta
Speaker 2: love at least I don't know. I don't love is
Speaker 2: the wrong word. But there was a Netflix documentary on
Speaker 2: her story that was made. If you'd like to see
Speaker 2: more about the Rita Cronwell story, check out the documentary.
Speaker 2: But the director, Kelly Richmond Pope, who is a DePaul
Speaker 2: University accounting professor by day and a documentary filmmaker by night, said,
Speaker 2: and I quote, I feel like she had the last laugh.
Speaker 3: She won.
Speaker 2: She lived like a queen for twenty plus years and
Speaker 2: only served eight years. You do the math of won.
Speaker 2: So what do you put in the quote? Is that
Speaker 2: she after she's convicted, she does eight years in prison,
Speaker 2: federal prison. Her family buys up most of the property
Speaker 2: when he goes to auction, so she spends eight years.
Speaker 2: That's her price for all that she got away with.
Speaker 2: So this guy is saying, oh, eight years would be
Speaker 2: worth all of that. She's the winner. What's your thought?
Speaker 3: No, she's not. Because of it the fact that even
Speaker 3: if she was never caught, she didn't win. Yes, because
Speaker 3: that's the grossest behavior to take from the people around
Speaker 3: you who've supported you. Gave her a job at a time,
Speaker 3: like you know, at that time to be in a
Speaker 3: small town, to be the treasurer at the city of
Speaker 3: the town or as a woman, yeah, that role. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and she obviously everyone supported her growing up. And then
Speaker 3: she turns around and gives them the big two fingers
Speaker 3: to the sky and it's like, I'm taking all your stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: is this not winning?
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I do the methold differently than old
Speaker 2: Kelly Richmond Pope. I just see her, as I said before,
Speaker 2: she's basically a one woman version of colonization.
Speaker 3: She's just like I can if I can lift it,
Speaker 3: I'm taking it. It's just it's so gross. It is
Speaker 3: absolutely gross. What she did.
Speaker 2: I mean, stealing half of more than half of your
Speaker 2: town's annual budget. Yeah, okay, let's just put this in perspective.
Speaker 2: Let's say I stole half of the money from your
Speaker 2: family's budget. And I did that every year, year after
Speaker 2: year for six years. And I did this to fund
Speaker 2: my seahorse habit all right, and eventually I get busted
Speaker 2: by the FBI. Do you think if someone came along
Speaker 2: and said, that man, he's winning, would you be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, brother, that brother's look at that old folk
Speaker 2: hero there. No, they wouldn't because I don't look like
Speaker 2: Rita Crondwell at my point, so the only reason a
Speaker 2: fur bikini right now? Well, yeah, and we had sequence,
Speaker 2: but that's not Rita's. That's that's where Rid and I overlap. Okay,
Speaker 2: But the basically the idea is that here you have
Speaker 2: this middle aged white woman in rural America, and everybody
Speaker 2: would assume that she could be a criminal on the
Speaker 2: level of like some Walter White breaking bad level of
Speaker 2: like you know.
Speaker 3: That's why we have to assume that everyone is a criminal.
Speaker 3: Exactly solves that problem. I mean, that's essentially My point is. Look, look,
Speaker 3: you need to be both skeptical and optimistic and do
Speaker 3: both yea at the same time, and that's hard, it's exhausting.
Speaker 2: The answer is always the same, don't believe the hype.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: So what's our ridiculous takeaway.
Speaker 3: Elizabeth, ridiculous takeaway is that I really wish that they
Speaker 3: would have caught onto her earlier, because now I'm just
Speaker 3: like dwelling on the fact that the roads were all
Speaker 3: messed up and kids didn't have like parks to play
Speaker 3: in because she wanted to go ride a horse somewhere.
Speaker 3: Now she wasn't even riding these horses.
Speaker 2: No, she's winning, She's.
Speaker 3: Just parading them around. Oh, she's disgusting.
Speaker 2: I also noticed she didn't need a weapon to rob anyone,
Speaker 2: She just needed a pat And we always had to
Speaker 2: forget that when these white collar crimes do far more
Speaker 2: damage to a community than someone's sticking up the corner store,
Speaker 2: but they don't get punished. And I'm not suggesting that
Speaker 2: we need to punish people, but we need to consider
Speaker 2: the actual effect and impact of crimes as opposed to
Speaker 2: how they make us feel.
Speaker 3: You know what the heroic quality was here, Nosiness. Yes,
Speaker 3: I thought you'd like that.
Speaker 2: I knew Kaithus wantson was like your people to a Yeah, well,
Speaker 2: you know, as you know about me, Elizabeth, I would
Speaker 2: love to own a horse ranch. I love horses. I
Speaker 2: would just pretty much do anything to have a horse
Speaker 2: ranch on my own, except for stealing all of the
Speaker 2: money I can from my hometown. That is the Zaron
Speaker 2: Burnett guarantee. I like that, so thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: I'm Zaron Burnette. And over there in the white fur
Speaker 2: and diamonds is Elizabeth Dutty. You can find us online
Speaker 2: at Ridiculous Crime, about, Twitter, and Instagram. Got a tip
Speaker 2: for us about a ridiculous crime you like to hear about.
Speaker 2: You want to confess to a ridiculous crime, email us
Speaker 2: at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. Ridiculous Crime is
Speaker 2: hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced and edited
Speaker 2: by Harrison Ford's horse trainer, Dave Houston. Research is by
Speaker 2: the President of the three quarter and seven Eighths Horse Association,
Speaker 2: Briissa Brown. Our theme song is by part time mayor
Speaker 2: Thomas Lee and our resident lyele Love It look Alike,
Speaker 2: Travis Dutton, Executive Producer, a Ben the Horse Breeder to
Speaker 2: the Stars Bowling and Noel Don't you dare Call me
Speaker 2: a Comptroller Brown.
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