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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five, or.

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Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, Trust trust Me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we never have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and the abusive power from two mental gymnasts who've

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Speaker 1: actually experienced it. I am Lolablanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: And this week is part two of our interview with

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Speaker 1: mentalist and magician Benachek. Today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: how he exposed a scam by the televangelist and debunked

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Speaker 1: faith healer Peter Popoff in the eighties, Why he fights

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Speaker 1: against pseudoscience and the difference between critical thinking and skepticism

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Speaker 1: and why choosing the former is so important.

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Speaker 2: Plus he performs a little mentalism trick on us that.

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Speaker 1: He does and it's fun and God, I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I have this lingering feeling like there's something in

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Speaker 1: this episode that I didn't say. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: maybe I said it all. Maybe embracing that uncertainty is

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Speaker 1: what I need to do. Is that what you're learning

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Speaker 1: in your OCD therapy?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so I've copied off of two therapists places. Now

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Speaker 2: we have the same guy who does our neuro feedback.

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Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I still sometimes do. He misses you.

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Speaker 2: But then I also went to the same OCD center

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Speaker 2: as you, and we do have different therapists for that.

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Speaker 1: So yes, and how's yours going?

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Speaker 4: I love it?

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Speaker 2: I mean I just repeated myself all the time. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: Mmmmmmm.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I am. I'm working on the uncertainty. It turns

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Speaker 1: out I'm a total incomplete control three weird. I know

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Speaker 1: you would never know, right, So well, I miss thought.

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Speaker 2: More as like not an insult to your personality and

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Speaker 2: more a look back at your life and why that

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Speaker 2: might be.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, but also it isn't it is

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Speaker 1: true about my personality. So so you know, whatever I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm learning to embrace the things being imperfect and not

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Speaker 1: being in my controls.

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Speaker 2: Literally breaking out in hives right now, you guys.

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Speaker 1: I love uncertainty what he was talking about? Okay, all right, Megan,

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Speaker 1: what's what's your cultiest thing? Give it to me, all right?

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Speaker 2: So my cultiest thing is the Venue Church with Pastor

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Speaker 2: Tavner Smith is in the news this week. It's in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: And this dickhead man, this pastor, he started it in

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Speaker 2: the back of a Sam's Club, which for people in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest, that's like our costco back in the nineties.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it grew.

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Speaker 2: I think he started it in twenty twelve, but it's

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Speaker 2: already considered a megachurch at this point. He will preach

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Speaker 2: and call people out by name who haven't been giving

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Speaker 2: enough money.

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Speaker 1: Psychopath right, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: So this is how you know these people are in

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Speaker 2: a cult. A big group of them went out and

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Speaker 2: then stopped by his house without telling him they were coming.

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Speaker 2: Like that's a morning sign. Who at this Dan and

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Speaker 2: age would go.

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Speaker 1: To somebody likes a person who wasn't paying enough money.

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Speaker 2: I mean no, no, Just like a group of people

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Speaker 2: went out and they're like, let's go say Hi to

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Speaker 2: the pasture, Oh to the pastor.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you know, let's go to his house. That's

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Speaker 4: a culty thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Nobody even calls anyone anymore, much less goes to their house.

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Speaker 1: Oh in small towns, that happens in my mom's town.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say he wasn't expecting it because he was

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Speaker 2: there in his boxers with one of the women, a

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Speaker 2: very pretty woman who works in his church, who was

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Speaker 2: just in a towel, and these people found them, and

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Speaker 2: you might think, oh, well, they're having an affair.

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Speaker 4: They're not having an affair.

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Speaker 2: He explained to them he had just been cooking chili

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Speaker 2: and hot dogs and they both got some sauce on them,

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Speaker 2: so they knew it was weird and like eh, but

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Speaker 2: they were just like, we have to take off our clothes. So, uh,

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Speaker 2: that's what's going on.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. I mean that sounds like a really

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Speaker 1: like honestly, that could happen to anyone.

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Speaker 2: So his life is falling apart, And to be totally honest,

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Speaker 2: I'm here for it and fuck him.

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Speaker 1: Fuck him, amen, love Tavner Smith. Well, isn't it great

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Speaker 1: when they get caught?

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Speaker 4: It's so fun. Oh, it's so fun.

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Speaker 2: It's like they're doing it on purpose, just to bring

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Speaker 2: us joy. I'm sure subconsciously they are sabotaging themselves and.

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Speaker 4: Doing just that. Maybe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so many of them get caught, but how

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Speaker 1: many of them aren't getting caught, right, Like, so many

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Speaker 1: more of them are probably not getting.

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Speaker 4: Caught, that's true. What's the cultiest thing that happened to

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Speaker 4: you this week? Lila?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I fell for a phone scam.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: What Okay, I didn't do it. I didn't like go

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Speaker 1: through with it. But here's the thing. These fuckers found

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I tweeted at this like art print company because I

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Speaker 1: had been trying to return this fucking thing and they

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Speaker 1: were ignoring me and kept giving me the run around.

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Speaker 1: So I tweeted at them, being like, your customer service

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Speaker 1: is bad. And I get a call from this like

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Speaker 1: British man who's like, I see that you said that

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Speaker 1: our customer service was bad, And in my head I'm thinking, Oh,

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Speaker 1: they just don't want to be embarrassed on Twitter. He's like,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about that? And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've been giving me the run around.

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Speaker 4: Whatever.

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Speaker 1: I just want to return this thing, like, let me

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Speaker 1: return it. And he's like, totally understand. We have people

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Speaker 1: running our email who are just like a third party

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Speaker 1: contracted whatever. They kind of stuck. We're going to fire

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Speaker 1: them what. So like, let I'll just take care of

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Speaker 1: this for you right now. I'm like, oh, thank god.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, okay, I'm going to send you the

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Speaker 1: form to start the return. I'm like great, oh, but

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Speaker 1: it's not in my email though I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: He's like, check your spam. I'm like, no, it's not there.

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Speaker 1: He's like, huh, okay, that's weird. I'll send it again.

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Speaker 1: You can just go directly to this link instead.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And it sounded fishy, so I googled it and I

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Speaker 1: went there and it for sure was this scammy ass

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Speaker 1: website just trying to get you to put your information

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Speaker 1: in and I was like, oh my god, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe I felt for that. And he was like, what

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Speaker 1: are you talking about, Lola? You fucking I can't really good,

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Speaker 1: Like you almost got me. And he's like, no, what

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? He starts getting really really flustered,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, can you tell me what the art

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Speaker 1: was that I purchased. Can you tell me what the

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Speaker 1: design was? And he was like, yeah, uh, let me

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Speaker 1: pull it up right now, I'm pulling it up. I'm

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Speaker 1: pull and I was like, I can't believe and he

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Speaker 1: was like, no, Lula, come on, and I just I

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Speaker 1: just start laughing and I hang up on him, and

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Speaker 1: then he calls me back immediately, and of course I

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Speaker 1: don't answer, but wow, he got me from Twitter, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way.

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Speaker 4: How is your phone number connected to that? Dude?

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Speaker 1: I took my phone number down from all the websites.

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Speaker 1: I just had to complain because it turns out one

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Speaker 1: still had me up there, so I just had them

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Speaker 1: take it down again. But that fucker just like googled me,

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Speaker 1: found my real name, found my phone number that way.

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Speaker 3: God.

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Speaker 1: I hope I'm not giving anyone ideas here, but like,

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Speaker 1: what a fucking scam. People must fall for that all

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 2: I think instead of giving people ideas, you're warning people

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Speaker 2: that this could happen. And because I would be like,

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Speaker 2: do social Security number? Of course, here's my pets birthday.

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Speaker 1: The best part was how like desperate he got for

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Speaker 1: me to not hang up like he was really he

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Speaker 1: was trying. He was like, no, wait, don't hang up

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Speaker 1: on me.

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Speaker 4: I hate it. I hate him. Nope.

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Speaker 1: Also you sorry, Americans love English accents, they just do.

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Speaker 4: They know he's probably he's not even from England.

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Speaker 1: You're probably faking it just because he's like this on

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Speaker 1: this will make me sound more trustworthy than La.

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Speaker 4: Don't hang up Leola.

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Speaker 1: It's not a scam. I promise.

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Speaker 4: I can't do accents. But I do have an Irish roommate.

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Speaker 2: He's always like, what the cod skimming on in here?

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Speaker 4: It's not it at all.

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Speaker 1: That's not Arisian anyway. Fortunately, I know I can't do

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Speaker 1: an Irish accent, so I'm not even gonna try. Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: and I went for it.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes you just have to go for things. Okay, But yeah,

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Speaker 4: the British accent faked.

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Speaker 1: That was my I saw that you tweeted at us,

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Speaker 1: and I really want to I'm so sorry. I want

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Speaker 1: to help you with that. Oh god, it sucks, it sucks,

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Speaker 1: It sucks. Okay. I tried, you know what, but you

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Speaker 1: made a good point.

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Speaker 4: The cult of the English accent.

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Speaker 1: Oh we love the Brits, we really do.

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Speaker 4: It was my first thing.

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Speaker 2: That's not real. He's faking it. A British Man would

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Speaker 2: never be wasting his time doing that. Why would I

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Speaker 2: think that British men are just as idiotic as men

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Speaker 2: anywhere else in the world.

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Speaker 1: They're just men.

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Speaker 4: They just sound formal.

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Speaker 1: They just sound like Hugh Grant, who you inherently trust?

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Speaker 2: Fuck you, Hugh Grant. Come on, anyway, let's get let's

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Speaker 2: get into the episode, lolo. Let's give the people, let's

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Speaker 2: do it some fucking magic what they want.

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Speaker 1: Let's give them what they want, which is to stop talking. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And what is the modern day version of the spoon

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Speaker 1: bending would you say? Or is there one where people

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Speaker 1: now in the culture are like, oh wow, that person

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Speaker 1: is a psychic who I should trust?

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Speaker 4: Have you seen?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think it's the new mediums, right, I think

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Speaker 3: that's I mean, but mediums have been around, and there's

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Speaker 3: been different incantations of the it's it's the it's that

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Speaker 3: meeting that you see on TV now, right, I think

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Speaker 3: that's that's who it is. You know, it's a DeLong,

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Speaker 3: animistic it's it's it's all that group of people. Those

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Speaker 3: are the ones that are really pushing it and putting

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Speaker 3: it out there, and every every TV station every network

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Speaker 3: that you go on, they have some form of looking

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Speaker 3: for ghosts or you know, psychic powers. You know, there

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Speaker 3: was that horrific show where kids were you know, seeing

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Speaker 3: ghosts and and you had a psychologist on there who

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Speaker 3: was just feeding into that right sitting on the you know,

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Speaker 3: sitting with these kids that have been abused already, sitting

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Speaker 3: on a bed with the kids, you know, touching.

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Speaker 5: It was just horrific.

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Speaker 3: Like I cringed when I actually watched that show because

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Speaker 3: they were feeding into Yes, that could be a demon

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Speaker 3: that's out there after this kid, and I just kept

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Speaker 3: thinking about what kind of damage they were doing to

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Speaker 3: those kids. But I really think it's the medium that's there.

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Speaker 3: But I want to go back to something you said earlier,

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Speaker 3: because years ago Randy, after long after Project Outfer, he

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Speaker 3: came to Houston, Texas, and he told me he said,

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Speaker 3: he's writing some articles and I think it was like

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Speaker 3: either Penthouse or something like that on evangelists and you know,

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Speaker 3: the tricks and things that they use. And he was

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Speaker 3: going to go see an evangelist in Houston, Texas and

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Speaker 3: wanted to know if I wanted to come along. So

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Speaker 3: I said yes, of course, and I got there and

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting there and there's about ten thousand people in

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Speaker 3: this auditorium. I mean, they attract a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: And the evangelist comes out on stage and his name

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Speaker 3: was Peter Popoff.

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Speaker 5: So Peter Popoff comes out.

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Speaker 3: He said he's getting the word of God and this

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Speaker 3: is his convincer, right, he has direct communication with God.

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Speaker 3: Missus Davis, where are you? You were in a green

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Speaker 3: sweater in the back. God's telling me. God tells me

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Speaker 3: your husband's name is this. God tells me your address

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Speaker 3: is this. God tells me that your doctor says that

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Speaker 3: this is your ailment. Come down here. I'm gonna heal you.

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Speaker 3: God's gonna heal you. And need to bring people down.

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Speaker 3: And as I'm watching this, it's extremely emotional to me,

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Speaker 3: even because I'm seeing kids thinking they're healed of things

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Speaker 3: and I'm not thinking everything from that side. I got

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Speaker 3: caught up in the moment knowing that this wasn't real.

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Speaker 3: I'm still getting teary eyed and getting caught up in it.

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Speaker 3: And there came a point when pop Off, because he's

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Speaker 3: getting out so much information about so many people, that

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Speaker 3: he asked for people to collect money for him. I said,

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Speaker 3: I know what I need to do Randy, because Randy

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Speaker 3: was with me, of course, So I go down, I

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Speaker 3: get a bucket. I'm walking around the auditorium and I'm

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Speaker 3: collecting money for him. And I had to have in

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Speaker 3: my bucket alone at least ten to twelve thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: in that bucket. I walk down and you got fifteen

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Speaker 3: buckets going around in it, right, put that out. Now

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Speaker 3: we go around the room again and we're getting sealed

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Speaker 3: offerings and this is checks and things like that. So

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Speaker 3: we come down and then we go around again. Anything

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Speaker 3: you can give, jewelry, whatever it might be. So we're

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Speaker 3: going up. We're getting diamonds, we're getting watches, things. Those

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Speaker 3: get poured. And as I'm down there, I'm looking up

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Speaker 3: and I noticed that pop Off doesn't have an ear hole.

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Speaker 3: He's got a piece of plastic in there. So I

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Speaker 3: come back to Randy. I said, look, somebody's communicating with him.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it's for, but I suspect he's

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Speaker 3: not using the monics, because Randy at first thought he

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Speaker 3: was using the monics. Mnemonics and memory systems you use

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Speaker 3: to memorize information. But I use the monics mnemonics, you

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Speaker 3: get a lot of information about a few things, or

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Speaker 3: a little information about.

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Speaker 5: A lot and not a lot of information about a

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Speaker 5: lot of things.

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Speaker 3: So very shortly after that, you know, I convinced Randy

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Speaker 3: pop Off was in California and he was doing another revival,

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Speaker 3: and Randy got a friend of his from MIT to

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Speaker 3: come in with a scanner, and that person scanned every

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Speaker 3: single frequency in the auditorium ahead of time, and it

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Speaker 3: was to save us time. Any new frequencies that would

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Speaker 3: pop up, we would find him very quickly, and sure enough,

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Speaker 3: you have the auditorium, you have the preachers prior, and

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Speaker 3: then pop Off comes out up pops a brand new

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Speaker 3: frequency at thirty nine point seventeen megahertz. It's a woman

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Speaker 3: and it sounds a lot like Peter Popoff's wife, Elizabeth Wow.

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Speaker 3: Which is kind of coincidence that God would sound like

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Speaker 3: his wife, right. So we started recording these things, and

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Speaker 3: some of them were pretty nasty. There were things like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's that big black end word and they

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Speaker 3: actually said the word in the back of a yellow sweater,

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Speaker 3: you know, oh that lady has. And they would laugh

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Speaker 3: through all of this. They would say things like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that lady has. She's got cancer in her breast, she's

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Speaker 3: got lots in her breast. Make her stand up, make

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Speaker 3: a run, go ahead and make a run and shake

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Speaker 3: those titties, you know, things like this, just horrific things,

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Speaker 3: making fun of all these.

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Speaker 5: People, and it was just it was just terrible.

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Speaker 3: So what we did was we got all that, and

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Speaker 3: then we had a few people dress up and make

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Speaker 3: themselves readily available, and they got healed of things. In fact,

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Speaker 3: some people got healed things they couldn't possibly have. Don Henviak,

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Speaker 3: who shaved his head, put on a wig and put

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Speaker 3: on a woman's dress, got he got a heeled.

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Speaker 5: Of ovarian camp, which is absolutely impossible.

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Speaker 3: And then what we did was we took it on

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Speaker 3: the Tonight Show. And now pop Off would tape every

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Speaker 3: one of his appearances for his own TV show. He

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Speaker 3: was on over forty TV stations, hundreds of radio stations

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Speaker 3: at the time. His month, his weekly budget I think

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Speaker 3: was like five hundred and fifty thousand dollars at the time,

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Speaker 3: and so he would edit his tapes and put them

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Speaker 3: up there. So what we did was we took those

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Speaker 3: tapes and we took the sections where he was healing

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Speaker 3: out people. And we went on the Tonight Show with

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Speaker 3: Johnny Carson It's a while back now, and showed the video,

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Speaker 3: and we showed the video of the unedited video, and

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Speaker 3: then we showed the edited video, which was the one

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Speaker 3: that actually had Missus Popoff's voice on there.

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Speaker 5: And Johnny Carson, who never.

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Speaker 3: Edited his TV shows, hated to edit them. They had

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Speaker 3: to edit a section out of them because when he

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Speaker 3: saw it, he went, oh shit, just like that, because

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Speaker 3: do they know about that?

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Speaker 5: We're like, no, they don't know about it. Now, here's

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Speaker 5: the interesting thing.

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Speaker 3: You would I think that pop Off would have died

335
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Speaker 3: away immediately, right, but it literally took almost a year

336
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 3: before pop Off disappeared for a while. Pop Off is

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Speaker 3: back bigger than ever right now. He's still doing a

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Speaker 3: lot of the things he used to do, but he's

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Speaker 3: not doing anything that he can actually be caught in,

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Speaker 3: like the Katherine Coleman wheelchair trick, which goes back to

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Speaker 3: an evangelist female.

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Speaker 5: By the name of Katherine Coleman.

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Speaker 3: This is pop Off had ways of getting this information

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Speaker 3: from people. Sometimes his wife would come out ahead of

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Speaker 3: time and just meet people be expel these things hours ahead

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 5: And said Hi, I'm missus pop Off. What's your name?

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Speaker 3: Where you from?

349
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Speaker 5: Who's your doctor? What's wrong with you? And then you

350
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Speaker 5: go write down on a card. So that was one

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Speaker 5: way they got the information.

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Speaker 3: But the coolman trick is an interesting one because what

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Speaker 3: happens is they wait for somebody coming in early with

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Speaker 3: a cane. They're kind of limping. They walk up to them.

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Speaker 3: They say, you know what you look like. You're uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: I can put you in a wheelchair and put you

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Speaker 3: right up front if you want. Now, who's going to

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Speaker 3: say no to being put up front? As they're walking,

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Speaker 3: then they're asking them questions, Oh, where are you from?

360
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Speaker 3: Who's your doctor? Really? What's wrong?

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Speaker 5: I hope mister pop Off gets to you tonight.

362
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Speaker 3: Now pop Off can come out on the stage later

363
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Speaker 3: on and goes, mister Davis right over here in the wheelchair.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we never met before, have we?

365
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Speaker 3: They've never met before? Right, And he says, God says

366
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Speaker 3: you can't walk now. The guy thinking this is the

367
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Speaker 3: man of God, right, he can never be wrong. So

368
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Speaker 3: what he must mean, I'll never be able to walk

369
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Speaker 3: properly again? He says, I say you can. God says

370
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Speaker 3: you can to keep in mind, at this point, the

371
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Speaker 3: guy's got the adrenaline flowing through his body. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's got ten thousand eyes on you. Right, he stands up.

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Speaker 3: He's feeling better than he's felt in a long time.

374
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Speaker 3: The doorphans are hitting as well, the pleasure centers. So

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Speaker 3: he stands up.

376
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Speaker 5: You've got the first miracle, he says. Take a couple

377
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Speaker 5: of steps. You got the second miracle.

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Speaker 3: Pop Offs in the wheelchair says, go to the back

379
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Speaker 3: of the wheelchair. Pushed me, and he pushes him. Now

380
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Speaker 3: he's going to walk it a hold onto right. He

381
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Speaker 3: just has to keep up with it. And the greatest

382
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Speaker 3: part of all is he gets out, takes the wheelchair

383
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Speaker 3: back to where it was originally, and he said, that's

384
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Speaker 3: your wheelchair, right, meaning like, if you're in that seat

385
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Speaker 3: right now and you get up and I say is

386
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 3: that your seat, will say yes, doesn't mean it's your

387
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 3: seat that you're going to take home with you, right, right,

388
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Speaker 3: So everybody thinks it's that guy's wheelchair.

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Speaker 5: So pop Off was doing a lot of those tricks.

390
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Speaker 3: But now he's just on there saying, somebody has cancer,

391
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Speaker 3: somebody has a migraine. God's gonna heal you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember seeing a PBS documentary. I feel like

393
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Speaker 1: I've referenced this five thousand times on this about the

394
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Speaker 1: People's Temple, and Jim Jones had a wheelchair trick, and

395
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Speaker 1: I always thought that it just must have been somebody

396
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Speaker 1: who was in on it. But that is such an

397
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: interesting insight into how they're manipulating, even the person who's

398
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,920
Speaker 1: in the wheelchair at that time. I never realized that

399
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 1: that's I do know that.

400
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,879
Speaker 3: I do know that Jim Jones did use stooges for

401
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 3: some of his stuff, but not for the wheelchair.

402
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Speaker 5: There's also another one where one leg grows longer.

403
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 3: That's an old magic trick that goes way back as well,

404
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,880
Speaker 3: and most of the evangelists were using that at one time,

405
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 3: but they've learned from pop Off. Don't use things you

406
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,120
Speaker 3: can actually get caught. It's just as easy to sit

407
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 3: there and say, hey, somebody has a headache, somebody has cancer.

408
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 3: You know I'm going to pray over you. I have

409
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 3: your letters right here, even if the letter isn't there. Now,

410
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 3: keep it in mind, pop Off made most of his

411
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 3: money not doing those kind of things.

412
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Speaker 5: He had mail out, so if you came get you.

413
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,360
Speaker 3: Signed up right. People would sign up and they would

414
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 3: send you letters, and in that letter you'd either get

415
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 3: a felt heart that you had to wear, an outline

416
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,119
Speaker 3: of a foot to wear in your shoe. And you know,

417
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 3: you could buy healing water. Right now, he's selling water

418
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 3: from a stream in Chernobyl and when people drank it,

419
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,399
Speaker 3: you know it cure them of radiation poisoning, is what

420
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 3: he says. That, which goes back to another thing he

421
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 3: used to do with Jerusalem, saying kind of thing with

422
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 3: the water. But the idea was you would wear this

423
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Speaker 3: and then you would wrap up the amount of money

424
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Speaker 3: you could put in there. Keep it in mind that

425
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Speaker 3: whatever you give you're definitely going to get back tenfold,

426
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 3: I promise you, he would say. And so people would

427
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,920
Speaker 3: put their life savings and wrap it up and send

428
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 3: it up to pop off and would have nothing this despicable. Right.

429
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Speaker 1: Where is the line between benign deception and harmful deception?

430
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Speaker 1: In your view? Is it just telling people that you're

431
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Speaker 1: deceiving them? Basically, Jim, if I.

432
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Speaker 3: Tell people that I'm deceiving them, it's okay?

433
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, is that what you're asking?

434
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Speaker 3: I think it depends, right, It depends what were you

435
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 3: going with that if I'm telling you I'm deceiving you,

436
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 3: to show you that you can actually be deceived and

437
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 3: learn from this. That is one thing. But quite often

438
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 3: people will tell you that they're deceiving you. It's you know,

439
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 3: I listened to your podcast about narcissists. Right. Sometimes people

440
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 3: will use things like that to gain your confidence, so

441
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: they can deceive you in other ways. So just because

442
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 3: somebody tells you they're being nice to you, doesn't mean

443
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 3: that they are being nice.

444
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 5: To you, right, Does that make sense?

445
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 3: So that's a very difficult question to answer. When we

446
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 3: came out after Project Alfer and explained that everything we

447
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 3: had done was an illusion, there were a few scientists

448
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 3: that came out and said, is it right to deceive

449
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 3: scientists in the name of science, Which is an interesting question, right.

450
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 3: My answer to that was, really what we did was

451
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,439
Speaker 3: we brought parapsychology into that century. We took it from

452
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 3: the dark ag ages and brought it back into that century.

453
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 3: Because if parapsychology, if any psychic ability is real, it

454
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 3: should be able to hold up under that kind of scrutiny,

455
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 3: just like any other thing in the world, right, it

456
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 3: should be able to hold up and scientists had been

457
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 3: lamenting for years there was no evidence of ESP, and

458
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 3: they had even said, look, if you can introduce a

459
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 3: magician to a laboratory, go ahead and do it. You

460
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 3: won't be able to do it. And I think they

461
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 3: thought that because they had PhDs and they thought they

462
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 3: would be they were too smart to before. Keep it

463
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 3: in mind if Randy didn't have a PhD. But Randy

464
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 3: consistently sent them letters explaining how we could have possibly.

465
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 5: Have been doing the tricks.

466
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 3: The funny thing is they never called on to how

467
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: did Randy know the experiments who were actually performing. They

468
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 3: never called onto that. I always found that really interesting.

469
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 3: And at the very end, after we came out in

470
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 3: the Time Life Build and explained everything was an illusion,

471
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 3: they wouldn't answer their phone for anybody that was calling

472
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 3: them until they got a hold of me and Mike,

473
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: and they called me and they said is this true?

474
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: And I didn't answer right away because I wanted to

475
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 3: find out what they're answer it would be. And I

476
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 3: said to them, I said, what do you think? And

477
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 3: they said, there is no way this can be real.

478
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 3: It can't be true that you were tricking us, And

479
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 3: I said, unfortunately, it was true because and it was

480
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 3: tough for us. It was really really tough because I

481
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 3: really liked these people. These were really good people. But again,

482
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 3: having said that, there was so much money being spent

483
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: on pseudo science that could be spent on the real science.

484
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, that's so hard because my instinct with

485
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 1: that is to say, like, well, that brought science forwards,

486
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: so that matter, and that was important. But in any

487
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: other context I would be like, but deceiving people is wrong.

488
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: You were emotionally harming people. It's never a good idea

489
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: to prioritize science over humans. But in this case, they

490
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: didn't like lose any money over it individually. Right.

491
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: It's an interesting thing because if you're helping to promote

492
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 3: the belief in these things, which many of those scientists were,

493
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,959
Speaker 3: because I weren't using proper scientists, so I mean science

494
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 3: like the ones that worked with the scientists that work

495
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 3: with Uri Gala. You know, they're promoting pseudo science, is

496
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 3: what they're doing, and that is extremely harmful to the masses. Right,

497
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: So it becomes this thing of you take this one

498
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: little area for the good of the greater good, Right,

499
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's kind of what we were

500
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 3: doing at the time, we were trying to correct a

501
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 3: mistake and telling them. And you know it's like when I,

502
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: like I said earlier, if I talk to somebody who

503
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 3: feels they've had a genuine psychic experience, right, They've gone

504
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 3: through a psychic and they feel the psychic is real.

505
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 3: If I just attack that, they're not going to listen.

506
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 5: But if I can get them to feel the same experience,

507
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 5: now they might listen a little bit.

508
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: Have you had experiences in your life that are completely unexplainable,

509
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 2: Like I remember having a dream about something that happened

510
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: beat for me, has that happened anything like that ever

511
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 2: happened to you?

512
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: Well, with the amount of data that hits you every

513
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 3: single day, right, right, extremely weird, if it never happens

514
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 3: to you, right, I mean that would be that would

515
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: be psychic in itself. Never had a coincidence happen in

516
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: your life. Yeah, I've had a lot of things like that,

517
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: and most of them I can figure out, but not

518
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: all of them I can. And that's the hard bit.

519
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: When somebody gives you an anodotal story, right, you're not there,

520
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 3: you don't have all the facts. It's really hard. And

521
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 3: just because I can't give them the answer. They go, oh,

522
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: that must be real. No, it doesn't mean that. It

523
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: just means I don't have all the facts, or even

524
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 3: they don't have all the facts. Years ago, my ex

525
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: wife and I were driving in Houston, Texas, and this

526
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: is an example, and as we're going down the road west.

527
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 5: Tim are in Houston, Texas.

528
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 3: We're going down the road and I say, I wonder

529
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: how my friend David is doing. And I hadn't thought

530
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: about David for probably about two years. And she went, oh,

531
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 3: my god, I haven't thought about him forever. But I

532
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 3: was just thinking about him and I started thinking about it.

533
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: I could have taken that that we had a psychic

534
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 3: connection in that moment, but I thought about it and

535
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 3: I said, it hit me. I said, do you remember

536
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 3: when we were passing the gallery And she said, well, yeah,

537
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 3: you know, it's on the same road we passed that.

538
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 3: I said, you remember the traffic bight there? She goes,

539
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: kind of do you remember the truck that was next

540
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 3: to us? She goes, uh, I said, a truck that

541
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: looked like David. She went, oh, my god, yes, and

542
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: that's what triggered that fault. Until we were much further

543
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 3: down the road, and so at that moment we thought

544
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: we were thinking about it at the exact same time,

545
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: But that's what had actually triggered that thought. It's like

546
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: the old lady who comes home, you know, and she

547
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: won't enter her house because she's scared to death, and

548
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 3: she calls the cops. She said, I just had a premonition,

549
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: and they go in and her house has been broken into.

550
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 3: But it's not till the next morning that she realizes

551
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: that the curtains were open when she came home and

552
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: they usually closed. But it's the next day she realizes that.

553
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 3: But in that moment she might have thought she had

554
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 3: a psychic experience. So a lot of these things like

555
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: intuitive and there are things that we don't fully understand,

556
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: and a lot of it is just coincidence.

557
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: Right, So, do you believe in like a higher power

558
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 2: things we don't understand?

559
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 3: Depends what you mean by that. If you're asking, do

560
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 3: I believe in God? No? Say as what most people

561
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: think God is. No. Do I think there's a greater

562
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: purpose for us being here? Not necessarily No, But it

563
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 3: doesn't mean I shouldn't make the best of this journey

564
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 3: while I'm here. Doesn't mean I shouldn't treat other people

565
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: with respect. It's I always find it really interesting when

566
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: people tell atheists you can't be moral because you won't

567
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: believe in God, and I go, that's just kind of weird.

568
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: If the only reason I'm doing good is because I'm

569
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: scared I'm going to go to hell? Right, is that

570
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: I want to do good and do better with people

571
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: and treat them the way I want to be treated,

572
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: because otherwise it is it is just chaos anyway. I

573
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 3: don't want to do calm to other people. And even

574
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: with those scientists, it did. It weighed heavily upon me

575
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: and also on Mife as well. For years I wanted

576
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 3: to meet them, and they wouldn't meet me. I finally

577
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 3: did get a chance to meet the one scientists involved,

578
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: and it was it was a nice meeting actually when

579
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: we finally met, But it also confirmed a few things

580
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 3: as well.

581
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: So, yeah, when is your response to people when they

582
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: say the like quantum particles behaving differently well being observed?

583
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: Do you what would you say to someone who says

584
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: that I.

585
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 3: Don't think we know enough about that we've got we

586
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 3: haven't advanced far enough in.

587
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: That we're so dumb, really exactly right.

588
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: We've been so dumb about many things through you know,

589
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: through humankind's history, right, and then we finally get there.

590
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: And at some point we may get there. Just because

591
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense to us now or it seems

592
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: like illogical doesn't mean that it doesn't become logical when

593
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: we have all the pieces of the puzzle later on. Right,

594
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that something else is mystical. And just

595
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: because this one thing may be real doesn't automatically make

596
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: this other thing.

597
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: Right, it could be possible for there to be things

598
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: that are information that is transmitted from one person to another,

599
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: and it's a science we don't understand yet, but that

600
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that this particular psychic has actual abilities. Just

601
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: because that is in theory possible, or I should say,

602
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that it doesn't warrant skeptics to some

603
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: extent and critical thinking.

604
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: I've done hundreds of experiments offering the million dollars to

605
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 3: people through the years, and not one of them has

606
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: even coome close. We had a preliminary experiment and we

607
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 3: had the formal and nobody's taken the money. Yet we

608
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: always try to get it when we could with stats

609
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 3: down to one in a million people win the lottery,

610
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: So just because they won the money doesn't mean that

611
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: they're a genuine psychic. And just because they didn't get

612
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 3: the money didn't mean that they weren't. But it would

613
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: shine a light on that particular talent and hopefully other

614
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: people would have to verify it.

615
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 5: Like you have to do in science.

616
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: But none of this stuff has ever You just take

617
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: a look at it and it doesn't work, and yeah,

618
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: we can go to the quantum physics, so you can

619
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: take a look and you say, yeah, when it's observed

620
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: that doesn't hold water. There were so many different types

621
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: of psychic phenomena. You're talking to the dead, right, You're

622
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: being able to bend metal with your mind, you can

623
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: actually read somebody else's mind. These are all different type

624
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: of psychic abilities. Are you're telling me they are all

625
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 3: fall under that?

626
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't think so, right, But that's a really good point.

627
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: What does healthy skepticism look like to you? How do

628
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: we maintain skepticism without being dogmatic? A guy comes up

629
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 1: to you and says, you got to check out this

630
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: psychic with amazing abilities. What is your approach in that scenario?

631
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: So, when I was testing psychics, I would always go

632
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: in and I would I really wanted to have the

633
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 3: attitude that this is going to be the one because

634
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: I wanted to be fair to them, right. I didn't

635
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: want to be negative. I didn't want to go in

636
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: saying this person doesn't.

637
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 5: Have these abilities.

638
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: So I have an.

639
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 5: Interesting switch in my head.

640
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: I know it's going to be hard for a lot

641
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 3: of people believe where I can switch that switch off

642
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: and go I'm gonna believe that this is possible.

643
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 5: In this particular moment, but I'm also going to observe it, right.

644
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: And that's the other interesting thing is the quantum as

645
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: opposed to actually psychic abilities. It just actually hit me

646
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: what your answer might be there is those abilities are

647
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: observe every day. They're observed by believe as consistently right, right,

648
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: So they do show them them selves when they're observed

649
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: that you actually do see.

650
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: It observed with skepticism versus without skepticism.

651
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And well what about if you get somebody who

652
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: doesn't really know, doesn't believe or disabelieve that that's not

653
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: necessarily skepticism. And there's a difference between critical thinking, I think,

654
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: and skepticism. Right, there's a bit of a difference there,

655
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: so be it. So you're telling me that if you're

656
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: a critical thinker, you can't observe the phenomena. Is that

657
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: what they're saying? Right?

658
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: So the ghost will get scared? Bencheck the ghost don't

659
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: want to show up?

660
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 3: I don't.

661
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 5: The ghost shouldn't care less?

662
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: Right in that the information that the ghosts give you

663
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 3: is the most ridiculous information ever. Right. They never tell you, oh, yeah,

664
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: I walked away, you know, a thousand dollars in the pillow.

665
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 5: Under the you know, up in the attic.

666
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: It's never anything like that. It's like, yes, I care

667
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: about you, I loved you, and I forgive you. You know.

668
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: It's those kind of things, right, Or it's you know,

669
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 3: she's telling me she gave you a piece of jewelry.

670
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: Your grandma gave you a piece jewelry. Whose grandma didn't

671
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: give you? Know?

672
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: Yeah?

673
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: Right?

674
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 5: You have a scar on your right knee. Yeah, who

675
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 5: doesn't have a scar on there?

676
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: Right?

677
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: Right? Right?

678
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: In my case, when I have tried to use the

679
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: Wiji board because I desperately want all of the shit

680
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: to be real, to be clear, like I want it

681
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: to be real, it seems so fun and exciting and

682
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: larger than life to me. But every time I try

683
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: the Wigi board, it will move because that's how it's designed,

684
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: but it will just stay like three like it doesn't

685
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: actually spell out words go on. My's never even move

686
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: for me, so I doesn't know, Oh, it moves every

687
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: time because it's just really sensitive to the like my

688
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: measures your fingers.

689
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: Well, here's here's the interesting thing that we would do.

690
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: Whenever we do an experiment, we would always do an

691
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: open experiment. Now, let's say, for instance, we're doing something

692
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: with the water that's in a container of twelve containers, right,

693
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: and you've got a dows of that's right there. We

694
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: would open all the containers so they could check to

695
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: make sure their dowsing broad was working and whether it

696
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: be me, or whether it be Randy, or whether it

697
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 3: be any other skeptic. Their ability always seems to work

698
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: when they can actually see what the object is. But

699
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: the moment you put the lids on and you mix

700
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: them up, they can no longer find that water because

701
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: you're skeptical. Well, my skepticism didn't change at all between

702
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 3: the time that you were able to have this ability.

703
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: And the time that happens right.

704
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: We've always done an open experiment like that with every

705
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: psychic and they've always succeeded, and they always say their

706
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: ability is working in front of the skeptic. So why

707
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: all of a sudden doesn't it work when they can

708
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: no longer see it?

709
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 5: And it's a double blind test.

710
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 4: Right right, right?

711
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: The skepticism just got too strong at that. Yeah, yeah,

712
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: that's funny. It's a hard pill for people to swallow.

713
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I know, because we don't want

714
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: to believe that people would deceive us like that. Like,

715
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: aside from wanting to believe in are bigger than us.

716
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: They're always like old and nice or like, you know,

717
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: they seem so loving and then you're like, oh, you

718
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: got as our assholes.

719
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 4: That sucks.

720
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: I feel that far because I think many of the

721
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: people that are doing readings they believe in it themselves.

722
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: They believe that they actually have an ability. I have

723
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: a very good friend. He's been on my podcast, Banichik's Brain,

724
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: and he actually Ray Hyman, And you go back look

725
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: at that episode and Ray tells an interesting story. I

726
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: may I'll get it exact, but it's a paraphrase it.

727
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: Ray was giving skeptic talks on terror cards and how

728
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: and why they cannot work. And that came a point

729
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: where Ray was like, you know, I've been talking about

730
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: this stuff, but I've never actually learned how to read

731
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: terror cards. So we got himself a system and he

732
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: learned how to read terror cards and he started doing

733
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: it for people, and he started getting feedback and he

734
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: was like, Wow, maybe there's something to these terror cards

735
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: that I don't quite understand, because they seem to be

736
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: telling people things, and they seem to be telling them

737
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: amazing things. So he had a friend that came up

738
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: and said, Ray, you know another skeptic, another critical thinker.

739
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: I actually came up to him and said, Hey, Ray,

740
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: you know you're a smart man. Why don't you give

741
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: a reading to somebody, and when you get a really

742
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: positive reading, remember that reading and give it to like

743
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: the next twenty people or so. Now Ray had a

744
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: dilemma because Ray's am really honest guy. He's like, yeah,

745
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: but they're paying for a real reading and I'm using

746
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: a system and I'm not going to be giving them

747
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: the reading that's meant for them. But Ray went ahead

748
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: and did it anyway. Ray found out that he was

749
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 3: getting more positive feedback from the people that the reading

750
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: was not meant for than the person it was meant for.

751
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: Even though he got a great reading with the person

752
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: it was meant for, he was getting more from those

753
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: other people, and that reading was not meant for those people.

754
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: So that kind of told him everything he needed to know.

755
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: But it also let him know that it's very easy

756
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: to be self deceived when you're getting all this positive

757
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: feedback from people. So I wouldn't call, you know, the

758
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: little lady who's reading terror cards or you know, you know,

759
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 3: using a pendulum or reading the palm, I wouldn't call

760
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: her an asshole.

761
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 4: Because no, No, I love those people.

762
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 5: I mean deceived as well, right, yeah.

763
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: I give all my money to those people. I fully

764
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: believe in it. I wouldn't give money, I fully yeah,

765
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: I fully do. I just mean, you know, the ones

766
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: who are obviously lying and like the big stages, and it's.

767
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 4: Just sad, it's really sad.

768
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that again a really interesting point.

769
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: It's like the person in the wheelchair is a part

770
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: of it, but they do not necessarily know that they

771
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: are a part of a larger deception. We Yeah, the

772
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: ways that we deceived, deceive ourselves. The psychic might not

773
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: necessarily be intentionally the.

774
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: Point of the deception, though, where those deceptions get and

775
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: how dangerous they get. I mean with pop Off, he

776
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 3: was telling people to throw up pills on stage. You

777
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 3: don't need your medications. So people are throwing up heart medications,

778
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: they're throwing up you know, you know, all kinds of

779
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: stuff that keeps them alive. And then pop Off each

780
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: town and people die and he just doesn't care. He's

781
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: not in town anymore. So, Yeah, people put a lot

782
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 3: into the word of somebody that they believe in like that,

783
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 3: And people would leave hospitals literally on stretchers to come

784
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: see the evangelists. They leave the hospital against their doctor's

785
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 3: orders to come see an evangelist because you know, I mean,

786
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: if you've got a terminal disease, you're gonna try almost

787
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 3: anything and everything. I mean, Annie Kaufman, you know, went

788
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: to what the Philippines to go do psychic surgery, knowing

789
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: full well that it probably wasn't gonna do anything, but

790
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: you just never know.

791
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, John of God, I had a lot of friends

792
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: that went to go see John of God.

793
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 4: And now he's he's a Brazilian. Is that correct? Yeah,

794
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 4: he's a healer.

795
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I can't remember quite and he was

796
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: on Oprah a million things, but it's kind out that

797
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: he's a sexual abuser and Charlotte Tan and just awful.

798
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 4: So yeah, it sucks.

799
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: So for someone who doesn't have your knowledge, you obviously

800
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: know about all the different ways that people can manipulate

801
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: people and make it seem like they're psychic. Do you

802
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: have some like quick and dirty tips for regular Joe's

803
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: like us for what we can kind of look out for,

804
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: or is there anything any specific red flags?

805
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 3: I think the biggest red flag is when somebody has

806
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: an extraordinary claim right that really they have the burden

807
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: of proof they have to prove that claim exists. And

808
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: the moment somebody comes at you with some extraordinary claim,

809
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 3: you know, don't take it at face value just because

810
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: you don't understand it. When I was younger, I used

811
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 3: to do a lot of shows for high school kids

812
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: and middle aged kids, and I would go and I

813
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 3: would perform, and I would come on stages if I

814
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 3: was a genuine psychic at first, and I would say,

815
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: how many of you believe in this? And most of

816
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 3: them would raise their hands because they've just seen things

817
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 3: they can't explain. And I would say, how many.

818
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 5: Of you do not believe in us?

819
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: And four or five hands would go up, and I

820
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 3: would ask them why, and they said, because my dad

821
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: says it's not real, because I read somewhere that it

822
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: wasn't real, because somebody on the radio said that this

823
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: stuff isn't real. And I would say, you're right, and

824
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: they would get a big smug smile on their face,

825
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 3: and I say, but for the wrong reasons. You know,

826
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: your dad told you. You read one an article and

827
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 3: you believe in this. These other kids just saw something

828
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: they couldn't believe. However, they're also wrong, much smarter to

829
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: be able to say I don't know. Sometimes a person

830
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: in the room that says I don't know, I don't

831
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 3: have enough facts. Looks interesting. I'm going to check into

832
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 3: it and find out more. That is the much better

833
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: answer to give. That kids have taught from a very

834
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: young age. That's saying I don't know means you're stupid,

835
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 3: and it doesn't unless you've been lazy and you haven't

836
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 3: studied for a test, then you're being lazy. But in

837
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: most instances, I don't.

838
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 5: Know means you know that you're not knowledgeable in that area.

839
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 3: You know, you're not an expert, and you're going to

840
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: go find where the experts are and you're going to

841
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: look at both sides of things. In this climate that

842
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 3: we have in this age right now, people are so polarized,

843
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: like you have your stance and that's it. You can't

844
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: have healthy.

845
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 5: Debates anymore usually with people.

846
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: And it's such a shame because I have a group

847
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: of friends that I can get with, and there's Democrats,

848
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: the Republicans, there's everything in between. And on the outside,

849
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: we have great discussions and nobody gets upset, and we

850
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: cover a multitude of topics and I love being able

851
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: to do that. But that's within this one little safe environment.

852
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: In the real world, it's extremely difficult to do that

853
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 3: because people put up walls, people get angry, they take

854
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 3: their stance because most people, I mean, you know, think

855
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: about it. You don't want to be told you're wrong

856
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 3: about things. I don't think anybody really wants to be

857
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: told straight out you are wrong. Yeah, you want to

858
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: cover that conclusion itself.

859
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about till Swan all the time.

860
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 4: Do you know she is No, you're lucky. She's a

861
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: selfone thing.

862
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 3: So maybe I do.

863
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: Self proclaimed psychic spiritual leader guru alien. Oh yeah, alien,

864
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: but she called herself an alien.

865
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: I don't remember. Yeah she does.

866
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes lots of very wild claims. I went

867
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: to one of her workshops whatever. We talk about her constantly.

868
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: But I imagine going to one of her shows and

869
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: taking the I don't know stance, and I think that

870
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: that is healthy. But maybe where it starts to become

871
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: problematic is actually letting that person like give, like taking

872
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: their advice as though they're an authority on your life.

873
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 3: That's a different I don't know. If you're saying I

874
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: don't know, so I'm going to let them in.

875
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 5: Right, that's dangerous.

876
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: Right.

877
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 3: But if you say, I don't know, this is interesting.

878
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: But let me look at all sides.

879
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 5: Of this subject.

880
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

881
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: Healthy, right, looking at from all sides.

882
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: As opposed to being open. Yeah. I think I feel

883
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: like there's this idea that like you're being closed minded

884
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: if you are not you know, listening.

885
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: Well, that's the problem. When person says they're a critical

886
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: thinking people think they're being closed mind. It's not it's

887
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: like I'm thinking about this critically. Yeah, you know, I

888
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: want to look at all sides before I make a

889
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 3: decision that's going to affect my life.

890
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: Right, I just think they're being boring.

891
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: I shot fire kidding.

892
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 4: It's all magic and it's not. I know, I know,

893
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 4: I just like I just like believing.

894
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: So it's so funny to me that you do this

895
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: podcast with me.

896
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So do we have.

897
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: Such polar opposite view zone things? And even after all

898
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: the stories that we've heard, it's like her other podcast

899
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: is Superficial Magic, and it's.

900
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: The name of it.

901
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: Do you want to describe what it's It's just a look.

902
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 4: At magic from an LA girl's point of view.

903
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 5: When you say magic, though, what are you talking about?

904
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: You're talking about I'm talking about quantum physics and magic.

905
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, ter, Yeah, I'm gonna have to definitely gonna

906
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 3: have to take a look at that.

907
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: So, yeah, do you have any readings on us from

908
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: talking to us this time?

909
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: From you? But I can try something with you if

910
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: you want. Yeah, we do work that I can try.

911
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: Do you both have a small object cap of a

912
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 3: pan or ring, anything like that. Take the cap of

913
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 3: that off, just the cap. I want you both, Yeah,

914
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: I want you both to have some thing, and I

915
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: can't tell what kind of chairs you're in if you

916
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: have room behind you, but can you put your hands behind,

917
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 3: both of your hands.

918
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 5: Behind your back for me with Okay, with the object.

919
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: Now take that object and I want you to hold it.

920
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 5: Let's see. We got a black sweater and a white sweat. Okay,

921
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 5: that's interesting.

922
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 3: Okay. I want you to put the object in one

923
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: of your two hands and then separate those two hands.

924
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: Tell me when you've done that.

925
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: Done, done, all right.

926
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna ask you some questions and you can

927
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 3: lie or you can tell the truth. But keep in mind,

928
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 3: if you choose the role of a.

929
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 5: Liar, you're gonna have to consistently lie to me.

930
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: If you tell the truth, you're gonna have to consistently.

931
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 5: Tell me the truth.

932
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 3: Oh God, Okay, I'll give you time to think about

933
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 3: each chances.

934
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 5: So let's see, Lolan.

935
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: Yes, do you have the item in your right hand?

936
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 5: Yes, let's see some black sweater.

937
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 3: Let's go with a white sweater. Now, do you have

938
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: the item in your right hand?

939
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm right.

940
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 3: Now you can switch hands or you can keep it

941
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: in the same hand. Go ahead and make that decision

942
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: right now. Tell me when you're both done.

943
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 4: Done done.

944
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: If you lied the first time, you need to lie

945
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: to me the second time.

946
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 5: I want consistency here. If you told me the first time,

947
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 5: I want you to tell me the truth this time

948
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 5: as well. I want consistency. Oh, Lola, did you switch hands?

949
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: Yes?

950
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 5: Did you switch hands?

951
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 4: Yes?

952
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 5: Okay, So I don't know for sure.

953
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: It's extremely to do this through here in this medium,

954
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 3: but I think you both have the item in your

955
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 3: left hands.

956
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 5: Show me.

957
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 3: Are in your right hand?

958
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 4: Left hand?

959
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 3: You reverse on my stream?

960
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, left hand.

961
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 3: Completely threw me off. Yeah you reverse? Oh my god? Yes?

962
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: Can you? Can you tell us what you did? Or

963
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: is it a secret? It is a mentalist secret.

964
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 5: It's a mentalist secret.

965
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 3: How do we get or.

966
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 5: Should I tell them something?

967
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: I'm asking my manager right now. They try to do

968
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 3: that to somebody. Yeah, always believe what the person says.

969
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, we don't, so from my manager.

970
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 3: I don't know if you heard him or not.

971
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 4: I did.

972
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:22,439
Speaker 3: Whenever you do.

973
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 5: This with someone, always believe what the person says. Okay,

974
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 5: I always believe what they say.

975
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 4: Okay. Interesting, interesting, God, this is so cool.

976
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: I was going to lie they're lying.

977
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: Believe what they say.

978
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 5: If they're telling the truth, believe what they say no

979
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 5: matter what.

980
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: Interesting interesting, Okay, okay, okay, Well.

981
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 3: Now keep in mind with what we just did. I

982
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: could have played that up with all kinds of psychological

983
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: ploys and differently. The only thing I did say was

984
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 3: black and white sweater, as if that meant something, but

985
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: it really didn't. What it did was gave you a process,

986
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 3: and it gives you something to take you off think

987
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: about the actual methods. So the lady you go, wait,

988
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: you mentioned black speat and white sweater. What does that

989
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 3: have to do with this?

990
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: Right?

991
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: If I ask you a couple of other extra questions,

992
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 3: I can say, hey, you know, you know, what's your

993
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 3: favorite kind of tea? And it's just an upscure question.

994
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 3: But you go, way, what did that do? Did that

995
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 3: distract me? Did that tell him something? So you frame

996
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 3: it with this kind of stuff, So it seems like

997
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 3: there's a purpose to those.

998
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 4: Things, right, Oh, it'd be hard to date you can?

999
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 4: You just manipulate everyone all the time.

1000
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Wait, I want to quote the Carl Sagan thing because

1001
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: I butchered it so hard. I just want to like

1002
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: say it correctly. Okay, here's what it is, as an

1003
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: example of skeptical thinking. Sagan offers a story concerning this

1004
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: is just basically talking about what he actually says in

1005
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: the book. This is not quoting. The book offers a

1006
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: story concerning a fire breathing dragon who lives in his garage.

1007
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: When he persuades a rational, open minded visitor to meet

1008
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: the dragon, the visitor remarks that they are unable to

1009
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: see the creature. Segan replies that he neglected to mention

1010
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: that she's an invisible dragon. The visitor suggests spreading flower

1011
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: on the floor so that the creature's footprints might be seen,

1012
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: which Sagan says is a good idea, But this dragon

1013
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: floats in the air. When the visitor considers using an

1014
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: infrared camera to view the creature's invisible fire, Sagan explains

1015
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: that her fire is heatless. He continues to counter every

1016
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: proposed physical test with the reason why the test will

1017
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: not work. Sagan concludes by asking, now, what's the difference

1018
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: between an invisible, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and

1019
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove

1020
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it,

1021
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: what does it mean to say that my dragon exists.

1022
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all

1023
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: the same thing as proving it true. That is what

1024
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: I was getting at earlier and very poorly communicated, because

1025
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: I think that that is a really interesting thought experiment.

1026
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: It sounds to me almost like the same thing when

1027
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: people say you can't really prove a negative right in

1028
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 3: a way, yeah, yeah, because that now becomes the negative, right,

1029
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: and you can't.

1030
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: Prove it right, right, And that's so such an important

1031
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: thing to be thinking about. I think in our current society,

1032
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: filled with conspiracy theories and all kinds of just sort

1033
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: of crazy assertions that are at a certain point, how

1034
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: many mental gymnastics like well, I think you have to.

1035
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 3: I think with the dragon, you now have to rule

1036
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 3: out all these other things. Is the person crazy? Are

1037
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 3: they having hallucinations? And you have to start taking a

1038
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 3: look at those things before you go, oh, maybe there

1039
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: actually is a real dragon there, right, Yeah, you take

1040
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: a look at the things that it possibly could be.

1041
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 3: That would make much more sense.

1042
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I'm a much more suspicious person now, Thanks

1043
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: a lot, guys, Do.

1044
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: You have any final things to say or final ideas

1045
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: or thoughts or anything?

1046
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 3: Not really I mean, you know, I love the work

1047
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: that you ladies are doing. I think it's I think

1048
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 3: it really has a purpose out there. And I'm going

1049
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: to point more people in the direction of your podcast,

1050
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: so because I really do appreciate what you're putting out there.

1051
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 3: You're coming at things like I've done through the years,

1052
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 3: but in a different way and in a different arena.

1053
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: And I think of making people look at themselves a

1054
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: little bit as well, and about how they act and

1055
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 3: what they think and what they say, and being more

1056
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 3: aware of the things around them and their emotions and

1057
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: not letting people take advantage when they're in a low

1058
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 3: moment or in an emotional moment, right, And I think

1059
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 3: that's really important and I think it's really really healthy.

1060
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you for talking to us.

1061
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it real is so cool. I'm going to come

1062
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 4: see your show someday.

1063
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: I know we were saying we want to come to

1064
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: Vegas and see it because I'm sure it's awesome. Yeah.

1065
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: I'm at the Strat six days a week taking mind

1066
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 3: reading to New Heights and it's a strat get it.

1067
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: So Yeah, So we have a four pm show, so

1068
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: it's an early show. You can come see it, and

1069
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 3: they'll still go see one of the big boys, you know,

1070
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: like circ or something like that.

1071
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 5: Afterwards.

1072
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: Oh you're a big boy.

1073
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.

1074
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: My podcast is Benichick's Brain, so there's that. And you

1075
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 3: get me on social media under Banichick just to find

1076
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 3: out what's going on in my life. I'm always doing TV,

1077
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: always doing podcasts, you know. So I'm a little bit

1078
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 3: out there right now, all over the place.

1079
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, love it. Well, thanks so much for joining us,

1080
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: and it was great to see you again.

1081
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. Great to see you. Next time. You'll

1082
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 3: remember me. I remember you too.

1083
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 5: I was like, I know that gun. Then I saw that.

1084
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 5: I was, oh, okay.

1085
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: That I know. I knew your name, I just didn't

1086
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: remember why I knew.

1087
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: Ridiculous.

1088
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well again, thanks so much, and have a great

1089
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: day and great show. If you have a show today, thank.

1090
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 3: You very much. I appreciate it. I don't today, but

1091
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 3: I will tomorrow.

1092
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: Awesome by thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank.

1093
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: You so magic magic and mentalism and critical thinking. Megan.

1094
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: Have you ever been hypnotized?

1095
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 4: I have once in my entire life.

1096
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 2: I'm not one of those people who can like go

1097
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 2: on stage and start acting like a chicken.

1098
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 4: Or have an orgasm or whatever. I have seen that happen.

1099
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 4: Have you seen that happen?

1100
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: I have as a kid. But even as a kid,

1101
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: I was like, this seems.

1102
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 4: Like not real.

1103
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I once got called up to do something like that,

1104
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: and I was just standing there frozen because I'm so

1105
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: shy that I'm also not going to fake that it's happening.

1106
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 2: So I just stood there like a crazy person, and

1107
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: then they asked me to leave the stage. There were

1108
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: more people doing more fun things. I'm going to tell

1109
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: you this from the bottom of my fucking heart. Okay,

1110
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 2: I was at a mentalist's I was getting paid to

1111
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: be in his audience. Okay, he was paying people because

1112
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: he was making a TV show. I'm relaxed. I don't

1113
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: give a fuck about it. I'm not trying to be hypnotized.

1114
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: He hypnotizes us. I am so relaxed. My arm. He

1115
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: tells us there's a balloon connected to our arm and

1116
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: it's just slowly going to float up and whatever. And

1117
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: then he's like, oh my god, it's going to the ceiling.

1118
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: My arm shot up.

1119
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 4: So did half the rooms so fast without any.

1120
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: Conscious decision making on my part my body moved without

1121
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: me telling it too, and it scared the shit out

1122
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: of me, and I never the whole rest of the time.

1123
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 2: Nothing ever happened again. But I was just I think

1124
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: I'm one of those people who wants hypnotiz to work

1125
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: so badly that I'm like so stressed out that it's not.

1126
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: So I was just so relaxed and bored and like

1127
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: half in half out that I literally got hypnotized.

1128
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 4: Wow.

1129
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: I want to do it, just to know whether it

1130
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: will work for me, being someone who is so skeptical,

1131
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: even though we were just talking about how skepticism is

1132
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: not the thing, because I imagine that I would just

1133
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: be like psh.

1134
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 4: Yeah right, yeah, I mean that's how I was.

1135
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: I was like, it doesn't it doesn't work, And then

1136
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: my arm popped up in the air. It felt different

1137
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 2: than any motion I've ever taken. It was so strange, dude,

1138
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: and I've never ever been hypnotized again, So.

1139
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not gonna remember what it's called. But your

1140
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: body reacts and then your mind justifies why your body

1141
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: had that reaction, like we think it's the opposite, but

1142
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: that's like sure often how it works. So I wonder

1143
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: if it's just like if you get to a certain point,

1144
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: like your body.

1145
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess if you're relaxed enough, you can just

1146
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: tell your body to do things and you're not focusing

1147
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: on doing it, and it does it.

1148
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that it's like out of your control,

1149
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: Like if you're actually focusing on, like I want to

1150
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: have control over my own body, someone can't like take over.

1151
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 4: No, And if somebody's like, now go kill someone, I'd

1152
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 4: be like no.

1153
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: It was just it was a weird proof that there

1154
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 2: is something to being in a very relaxed state and

1155
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: being instructed your subconscious mind.

1156
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to try that. Maybe my problem is

1157
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: I can't relax. That's really the problem here.

1158
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 4: That is my problem, that's my absolute problem.

1159
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: And then I get even worse in hypnotic situations to

1160
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: like relax, relax, relax, do it, do it, do it,

1161
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 2: And then I'm just like so this was like my

1162
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: one experience with it. Obviously it's all about relaxation, and

1163
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: if you can get yourself in a relax state, go

1164
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: on the internet and hypnotize yourself because it works.

1165
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: Hmmm, all right, I'm going to find a hypnosis expert,

1166
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: someone who is knowledge is based in science. That's gonna

1167
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: happen at some point, you guys know, anyone hit us

1168
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: up and in the meantime.

1169
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,479
Speaker 4: Come back next time and remember to follow your gut,

1170
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 4: watch out for red flax.

1171
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: And never sure trust me.

1172
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:02,959
Speaker 4: Bye bye

1173
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: Mm hmm