Speaker 1: Every university has a scandal every now and then, we
Speaker 1: just have the flavor of the week.
Speaker 2: That's William Tierney, Professor Emeritus at the University of Southern California.
Speaker 2: He's been at USC for almost three decades and he's
Speaker 2: seen the place get caught up in scandal, and not
Speaker 2: just every now and then.
Speaker 1: What is it about USC that has created a non
Speaker 1: ending bit of scandalmania for the institution?
Speaker 2: I've asked myself that same question many times, what is
Speaker 2: it with USC and its scandals? My colleagues and I
Speaker 2: have exposed a number of them over the years, and
Speaker 2: it's not that we go looking for them, they find us.
Speaker 2: My name is Paul Pringle. I'm an investigative reporter for
Speaker 2: the La Times. This is Fallen Angels. This story is
Speaker 2: about power and money and how they can eat away
Speaker 2: at a place, corrupt it and destroy people lives in
Speaker 2: the process. It's the story of an investigation that starts
Speaker 2: in a hotel room in Pasadena, California, and reaches all
Speaker 2: the way to the top of two of the most
Speaker 2: powerful institutions in the city of Los Angeles. This is
Speaker 2: episode two The Trojan Wall. Devon Khan was working at
Speaker 2: the hotel Constance in Pasadena. He'd been there when a
Speaker 2: young woman overdosed on drugs. The man she was with
Speaker 2: was questioned by the police, but was allowed to just
Speaker 2: walk away. It turned out that the man was the
Speaker 2: dean of USC's medical school. His name is Carmen Puliaffido.
Speaker 2: The cops had done nothing, and USC itself had just
Speaker 2: ignored Devon's call. He'd been trying to get a tip
Speaker 2: to the La Times when he met a Times photographer
Speaker 2: named Ricardo de'r atonia.
Speaker 3: Boy, do I have a tip for you? And he's like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm just a photographer, but what's the story. So I
Speaker 3: laid it out for him and he's like, yeah, that's
Speaker 3: a story. He goes like, I said, I'm a photographer,
Speaker 3: but I can get the tip to the right person.
Speaker 2: Ricardo and the editors bring the tip to me since
Speaker 2: I have some history investigating USC, so I called Devon Khan.
Speaker 3: I get a call from Paul. He says, yeah, I
Speaker 3: understand that you know you have a tip. Would you
Speaker 3: mind explaining to me what happened.
Speaker 2: Dev On's story is detailed and thorough. He seems like
Speaker 2: a credible source, but he does have one important condition.
Speaker 3: Does the Tip understand that I need to remain anonymous.
Speaker 3: Can't have this jeopardizing my job at all. He assured
Speaker 3: me that I would remain anonymous. He says, Okay, I'm
Speaker 3: going to start looking into this. He goes, I'm definitely
Speaker 3: going to have to give you a call back from
Speaker 3: time to time. Is that okay?
Speaker 4: I say, sure, whatever you need.
Speaker 2: The Times has strict guidelines for granting anonymity to sources.
Speaker 2: They need to have a compelling reason to go unnamed,
Speaker 2: like the fact that they would get fired if they
Speaker 2: were identified. Devon makes that case to me convincingly. But
Speaker 2: before I could even think about building a story around
Speaker 2: an anonymous Tip, I have to check out, nail down
Speaker 2: every detail of Devon's account. This is the starting point
Speaker 2: of the investigation. First, I checked to see if there
Speaker 2: has been any recent news about Puliafido.
Speaker 4: And yeah.
Speaker 2: It turns out that eleven days earlier, he had quote
Speaker 2: stepped down as dean of the medical school. The press
Speaker 2: release gives no reason for his sudden resignation, and it's
Speaker 2: in the middle of the school term, which seems like
Speaker 2: strange timing. I scrub public records for more on Puliaffido.
Speaker 2: I find a recent divorce petition filed by his wife.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I reach out to the coroner's
Speaker 2: office to see if there's been a death of a
Speaker 2: young woman in the past few weeks who matches the
Speaker 2: description Devona had given me. And I head over to
Speaker 2: the Passing A Police department to get a copy of
Speaker 2: the police report from the incident. The Pasadena A Police
Speaker 2: say there is no police report, just a heavily redacted document,
Speaker 2: a log that shows the police accompanied paramedics on a call.
Speaker 2: Considering what Devon has told me about what he witnessed
Speaker 2: in the hotel room, the fact that there's no police
Speaker 2: report strikes me as very odd.
Speaker 5: Any situation where somebody is seriously injured or likely to
Speaker 5: die or is dead, those are the cases that would
Speaker 5: be an automatic complaint report.
Speaker 2: Joseph Jackalone had a long career as an NYPD detective
Speaker 2: with a specialty in forensic investigations. He's one of the
Speaker 2: experts I contact for law enforcement stories.
Speaker 5: If you find lots of paraphernalia at the scene, or
Speaker 5: guns and drugs or whatever you might find, those will
Speaker 5: have to have a report because there's nothing on paper.
Speaker 5: There's nothing to investigate, there's nothing to charge, and that's
Speaker 5: why documentation becomes its real important and any attorney in
Speaker 5: the world will tell you that if it wasn't document
Speaker 5: that it wasn't done.
Speaker 2: And the fact that there was a camera potentially filming
Speaker 2: everything in the room that raises all kinds of questions.
Speaker 5: What were they filming? There's lots of evidence that could
Speaker 5: be found on that video, including the illegal user narcotics,
Speaker 5: who was using them, and how they were being administered.
Speaker 2: But when I asked the police spokesperson about the lack
Speaker 2: of a report, I'm told the incident had been viewed
Speaker 2: as a quote, medical emergency, not a crime. I also
Speaker 2: contact US's executive offices several times, trying to reach USC
Speaker 2: president Max Tikias to ask him why the dean is
Speaker 2: a medical school has suddenly stepped down. No response whatsoever,
Speaker 2: and then I get an email from Pulliafido himself.
Speaker 4: Pull Fido right quote.
Speaker 2: I understand from my colleagues here at USC that you've
Speaker 2: been inquiring about my stepping down as dean of the
Speaker 2: medical school. I wanted to reach out to you directly
Speaker 2: and let you know that my decision was entirely my
Speaker 2: own The timing of my decision was related to a unique,
Speaker 2: time limited opportunity in the biotech industry, something which I
Speaker 2: am looking forward to sharing with others soon. US was
Speaker 2: nice enough to grant me a sabbatical to explore this opportunity.
Speaker 2: I got that email from him on April twenty of
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, a couple of weeks into my investigation. Naturally,
Speaker 2: I write him back saying I have questions, and I
Speaker 2: call I tell him I'm aware of the events occurred
Speaker 2: on March fourth at the Hotel Constance, and I intend
Speaker 2: to pursue the story.
Speaker 4: No reply.
Speaker 2: I have the same luck with the Kias and the
Speaker 2: people close to him silence. I'm not surprised, but a
Speaker 2: lack of response from USC's leaders. Silence had become their
Speaker 2: typical way of dealing with me. I've investigated USC more
Speaker 2: than once a colleague, and I discovered that USC's athletic
Speaker 2: director was paying himself and his family members from a
Speaker 2: scholarship fund for low income students. I investigated a cheating
Speaker 2: scandal involving the coach of the USC football team, the Trojans,
Speaker 2: And then there was our reporting on the deal that
Speaker 2: gave US control of the publicly owned LA Coliseum.
Speaker 6: The coliseum was built to honor World War One veterans.
Speaker 4: That's been our Parks. Most people call him Bernie.
Speaker 6: It's the only place in the world that's had the
Speaker 6: kinds of major events, the first Super Bowl, multiple Olympics,
Speaker 6: a visit of the Pope. It's basically one of the
Speaker 6: most recognized facilities in the world.
Speaker 2: Bernie Parks was chief of the LAPD from nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: seven to two thousand and two. For the next twelve
Speaker 2: he served as a member of the La City Council,
Speaker 2: representing the eighth district in South LA. He's also a
Speaker 2: USC alum. The coliseum part of his district is very
Speaker 2: important to him and his constituents.
Speaker 6: This house sc football for decades because it's right across
Speaker 6: the street. It's not a modern football facility as we
Speaker 6: see on TV, whether it's NFL or other college stadium.
Speaker 6: Sc it always hinted at they not only wanted to
Speaker 6: have more upgrades of the facility, they also hinted strongly
Speaker 6: that if these things couldn't be done, they would like
Speaker 6: take over the facility.
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, USC launched an aggressive campaign to take
Speaker 2: control of the coliseum to a master lease that would
Speaker 2: extend for nearly a century. The decision on whether to
Speaker 2: accept US's proposal was up to the commission that managed
Speaker 2: the coliseum parks.
Speaker 4: Was on that commission.
Speaker 6: They actually sent a proposal to the Colisseum Commission and
Speaker 6: unanimously the commission rejected it. Members of the Colisim Commission
Speaker 6: actually laughed at the deal because it was so preposterous.
Speaker 6: It was like, give us the colissem and let us
Speaker 6: run it, and community was not even part of the equation.
Speaker 6: And so a letter was sent with unanimous signatures from
Speaker 6: every member of the college in commission saying no, thank you,
Speaker 6: we don't want to participate. This is not a deal
Speaker 6: for the city. But s He did what it does.
Speaker 2: And what s He does is deploy its powerful trustees
Speaker 2: and other allies to lean on the commission.
Speaker 6: The amount of money that they have is significant, the
Speaker 6: amount of influence they have as far as their graduates
Speaker 6: and their alumni, the amount of exposure they get from
Speaker 6: their athletic program. They don't have any problem pushing their
Speaker 6: weight around as it relates things that they want. They
Speaker 6: went to Schwarzenegger as the state and they insisted that
Speaker 6: with his three of appointments, could he make one of
Speaker 6: them a member of SC's management or their board, and
Speaker 6: so he agreed to that.
Speaker 2: Parks believe that after Governor Schwarzenegger made those appointments to
Speaker 2: the Coliseum Commission, resistance to a USC takeover started to
Speaker 2: crumble for some reasons.
Speaker 6: When Schwarzenegger got convinced that this was a good deal,
Speaker 6: all of a sudden, the state begin to send messages
Speaker 6: quietly that they were in support of this. And so
Speaker 6: this process continues, and the Coliseum Commission approves this deal
Speaker 6: and it moves forward. You're basically giving away a facility
Speaker 6: that was built for military veterans, and you're giving it
Speaker 6: to a private entity with the ability for them to
Speaker 6: do with it as they please and keep all the money.
Speaker 6: There is absolutely no benefit to the city, County.
Speaker 4: And state.
Speaker 2: Bernie says the proach in playbook. Whenever it faces resistance,
Speaker 2: USC calls on its network of power brokers to neutralize
Speaker 2: the opposition.
Speaker 6: I think what it shows when people fall in line,
Speaker 6: they fall in line.
Speaker 2: It's now June, three months since the overdose at the
Speaker 2: hotel Constance. Two months into my reporting, I learned from
Speaker 2: a person within USC that President, Nikias is hosting a
Speaker 2: celebration for Puliafido in honor of all he has done
Speaker 2: for the medical school. The reception will be held at
Speaker 2: the Kech School of Medicine on the Law and outside
Speaker 2: of building name for Eli and Edith Broade, the La
Speaker 2: billionaire couple who's thirty million dollar gift paid for it.
Speaker 2: They made the gift three years into Puliafido's tenure esteem
Speaker 2: perhaps a testament to his fundraising skills. My source shows
Speaker 2: me the invitation they foresee for the event. It's Emboston
Speaker 2: gold on heavy stock. Very nice. I'm definitely not invited,
Speaker 2: but I show up anyway. I'm out the city US.
Speaker 2: He's a private cool but the campus clearly invites entry
Speaker 2: by the public just in case. Though I'm careful not
Speaker 2: to break any trespassing rules. I make sure to stay
Speaker 2: on the sidewalk and off the university's lawn. It's a
Speaker 2: little hard to hear from where I'm standing, but here's
Speaker 2: the gist. Nikias is extolling Puliafito's many accomplishments as Dean Pulliafido.
Speaker 4: Thanks his wife.
Speaker 2: I'll have to check the status of that divorce file.
Speaker 2: This is the first time I've seen Pulliafido in person.
Speaker 2: I'm struck by his confidence. He appears as if he
Speaker 2: has nothing to worry about. My investigation included why would
Speaker 2: the president of USC put on such a public show
Speaker 2: of appreciation for Puliaffido, especially if he knew that the
Speaker 2: La Times is investigating him. It might have something to
Speaker 2: do with the priorities that drove Max Nichias. Professor William
Speaker 2: Tierney had been at Penn State before coming to US
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: When I went to SC, a lot of my friends said, Geez,
Speaker 1: SC is not of the same caliber as Penn State.
Speaker 1: Why would you be moving to USC. There's an association
Speaker 1: called the AAU, the Association of American Universities, and that's
Speaker 1: the elite institutions. At the time, SC was at the
Speaker 1: bottom of the AAU and trying to move up. Steve
Speaker 1: Sample came in with a great deal of energy and
Speaker 1: really wanted to transform the institution.
Speaker 2: Steve Sample was president of USC from nineteen ninety one
Speaker 2: to twenty ten. Tierney saw what he was trying to do,
Speaker 2: and he believed Sample could pull it off.
Speaker 1: For a university to be the best, it's not that
Speaker 1: we've got a winning football team. It's that you've got
Speaker 1: a faculty that are the best and you are listening
Speaker 1: to what they say they need. And that also meant
Speaker 1: that we needed to bring in enormous amounts of money
Speaker 1: in a capital campaign.
Speaker 2: Ample devoted himself to fundraising NonStop, and when he retired,
Speaker 2: Max to Kia seemed like the perfect choice to continue
Speaker 2: that pursuit.
Speaker 1: Max was someone who if you called from New York
Speaker 1: and said, I've got Joe and he's willing to have
Speaker 1: breakfast with you tomorrow and he might give us big money,
Speaker 1: but you need to be here for breakfast. Max would
Speaker 1: take the Red Eye and if he knew that he
Speaker 1: needed to be back in Los Angeles that night for
Speaker 1: some type of dinner, he'd do it.
Speaker 2: Yikias's drive is understandable when you consider his background as
Speaker 2: an immigrant who came to this country intent on making
Speaker 2: something of himself.
Speaker 1: Max came from a very poor family in Cyprus. His
Speaker 1: father was a carpenter. His father said to him at
Speaker 1: one point, you're a smart, smart boy. I might send
Speaker 1: you to high school and if you work hard, you
Speaker 1: can graduate, then become a carpenter. For Max to graduate,
Speaker 1: go to the United States, to go to a Sunni
Speaker 1: Buffalo to get his doctorate, comes to USC, rises through
Speaker 1: the ranks and become a president.
Speaker 2: I'm agazing, and his rise brought him into the same
Speaker 2: room with a lot of rich, powerful, famous people.
Speaker 1: When you're having dinner with Steven Spielberg, that's a different
Speaker 1: sort of undertaking. I do think that created a disconnect
Speaker 1: between the world of the faculty and the world of
Speaker 1: la At Max's inauguration, he said, USC, we have to
Speaker 1: work so hard that we have to run a marathon
Speaker 1: at a ten k speed. I went up to him
Speaker 1: afterwards and I said, Max, you can't do that, and
Speaker 1: you shouldn't tell people to do that, and he said, oh,
Speaker 1: but we have to.
Speaker 2: When he was recruited to USC to run the medical school,
Speaker 2: Holdieffido understood perfectly that the mandate was to bring in money,
Speaker 2: and he delivered.
Speaker 1: Fundraising in the United States is sort of an odd thing.
Speaker 1: If you're at Columbia or Harvard, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: old money and foundations that will give you money. The West,
Speaker 1: especially Los Angeles, is the opposite of that. It's a
Speaker 1: lot of new money and you need to be charismatic
Speaker 1: in a way that maxim Carmen had they knew how
Speaker 1: to court donors successfully, and they did it.
Speaker 2: By the time he quote steps down as dean, Pulldiofido
Speaker 2: has become the public face of the medical school. If
Speaker 2: the dean were to get caught up in a scandal,
Speaker 2: it would be bad for USC. This backslapping ceremony at
Speaker 2: the Kech School of Medicine might be a face saving
Speaker 2: gesture for Pulliffido, but maybe it's one for USC as well.
Speaker 7: This was a story that had the potential to hold
Speaker 7: a powerful institution and a powerful person accountable for misconduct.
Speaker 2: Matt Lay was my editor at this time. Throughout his career,
Speaker 2: he's seen his share of corruption and cover up.
Speaker 7: I was at the La Times for about twenty eight years.
Speaker 7: I always tried to focus on investigative reporting, both as
Speaker 7: a reporter and an editor. I worked with reporters who
Speaker 7: uncovered corruption at city hall, abuses, in the La County jails.
Speaker 7: I worked on investigations about dirty doctors, and prior to
Speaker 7: the USC investigation, I was working on one about Purdue
Speaker 7: pharmat These are tough.
Speaker 3: Stories to do.
Speaker 7: They can be controversial, they can have an impact.
Speaker 1: On the paper's reputation.
Speaker 7: The paper's finances, the paper's legal standing. They are all
Speaker 7: issues that need to be considered when taking on powerful institutions.
Speaker 7: But my feeling is that these are good stories.
Speaker 4: They should be.
Speaker 2: Published with Matt's support. I keep digging. I find Pullio
Speaker 2: Fido's home address. It's a mansion in Pasadena. Of course,
Speaker 2: it sits behind a high security gate. No way to
Speaker 2: knock on his door. I leave my business card with
Speaker 2: a note on his mail, urging him to get in touch.
Speaker 2: He doesn't. Finally I get a break. I've made multiple
Speaker 2: public records requests to opacitying of police, including for the
Speaker 2: information redacted on the call log from the incident. I
Speaker 2: need a way to verify what Devon has told me,
Speaker 2: and the best way to do that is through police records.
Speaker 2: So I've been chasing them constantly with no response. But
Speaker 2: then the police chief writes that the records are requested
Speaker 2: are exempt from disclosure because they're part of a criminal investigation.
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, what investigation?
Speaker 2: How could you have an investigation without a police report?
Speaker 2: The chief set a trap for himself and walk right
Speaker 2: into it. Now the city will have to cough up
Speaker 2: a report.
Speaker 7: This story, like a lot of investigative reporting to me
Speaker 7: is like detective work. You're out knocking on doors and
Speaker 7: chasing leads and gathering them from me and filing public
Speaker 7: records requests. There's a couple of different thoughts in journalism,
Speaker 7: and the one I think Paul was favoring and I
Speaker 7: was supportive of it was, let's go with what we know,
Speaker 7: shake the tree and unearth other details that we didn't know.
Speaker 2: And finally, shaking that tree actually gets me something. The
Speaker 2: passing a police department admits they made a mistake. After
Speaker 2: months of saying there's no police report because there is
Speaker 2: no need for one because this was a medical emergency,
Speaker 2: not a crime, the department creates one retroactively three months
Speaker 2: after the incident. The police spokesperson tells me they dropped
Speaker 2: the ball because of a quote training issue. I've never
Speaker 2: seen anything like it in my career. Neither has former
Speaker 2: detective Joseph jackalone.
Speaker 5: Police departments have policies and procedures and protocols. For a reason,
Speaker 5: we had a saying and said, went in doubt, fill
Speaker 5: it out. So if you didn't know you had to
Speaker 5: fill out a report, just fill it out. The worst
Speaker 5: thing that could happen is that the supervisor, who has
Speaker 5: to sign off on it, says, you know what, this
Speaker 5: isn't necessary, so we're just going.
Speaker 3: To get rid of it.
Speaker 2: Finally I get access to not just the very tardy
Speaker 2: police report, but also recordings of the nine one one
Speaker 2: calls made.
Speaker 4: From the hotel.
Speaker 2: At first, I'm only given the recording of the call
Speaker 2: that Devon made.
Speaker 5: Are you able to transfer me to that room?
Speaker 1: Or?
Speaker 2: But it cuts out when the dispatcher asks to be
Speaker 2: transferred to room three oh four. Then the Pasadena City
Speaker 2: manager sends me a second recording that he says the
Speaker 2: city was quote able to obtain, and it's quote a
Speaker 2: better version of the nine to one one call, and
Speaker 2: it continues longer than the original file. Good does make
Speaker 2: me wonder why wouldn't the city release the second recording immediately?
Speaker 4: Why hold it back?
Speaker 2: I finally get to hear from myself while the second
Speaker 2: recording is quote better, did.
Speaker 3: She wake now?
Speaker 7: No, she's sort of very bride.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 7: Do you know how much she drinks a.
Speaker 8: B I mean I came in the room and.
Speaker 3: There were lots of didn't you take any deals with it?
Speaker 7: Or just the alcohol?
Speaker 2: I think just the alpha the call places pull your
Speaker 2: feto at the scene. We know from the report there's
Speaker 2: meth in the room, and here he is present at
Speaker 2: the overdose of a young woman, and you can hear
Speaker 2: that he lies. He doesn't mention the drugs that, according
Speaker 2: to Devon and the police report were found in a room.
Speaker 2: So far, everything Devon con has told me has checked out.
Speaker 2: I have plenty to run my story. My editor, Matt Laatee, agrees.
Speaker 7: The first draft was well documented, based on police reports,
Speaker 7: nine to one one recordings, interviews with key people. It
Speaker 7: was a solid story.
Speaker 2: There might be more to report in follow up stories,
Speaker 2: but the details we have are bulletproof.
Speaker 4: The hot shot, Din.
Speaker 2: Of USC's medical school has caught up in an incident
Speaker 2: where a young woman has overdosed on drugs and he
Speaker 2: lies to the police.
Speaker 4: Then he mysteriously steps down. It looks bad and it's essence.
Speaker 7: This is the story about a powerful man abusing his
Speaker 7: position and authority, and then on top of that you
Speaker 7: have an institution that is essentially covering up before this man.
Speaker 2: It's Friday, the end of the day. I'm on my
Speaker 2: way out the door. I stop and talk to my
Speaker 2: friend Jack Leonard.
Speaker 8: I've been at the Los Angeles Times for more than
Speaker 8: twenty five years. I started as an intern there in
Speaker 8: nineteen eighty seven, and I've covered many different beats, police, crime,
Speaker 8: county government. I've done a lot of investigative work. Paul
Speaker 8: is excited about every really good story.
Speaker 4: That he works on.
Speaker 8: When he finds some wrongdoing, when he finds something that
Speaker 8: authorities or powerful people are trying to keep him, he
Speaker 8: gets very excited about it. And that's contagious, and he
Speaker 8: likes sharing that.
Speaker 4: Like many of us do.
Speaker 8: So he comes over to my desk and he starts
Speaker 8: telling me about the story.
Speaker 2: I tell him about Puliafido and USC, the stone walling
Speaker 2: from the cops, the retroactive police report.
Speaker 8: I remember him talking about Pasadena police and how they
Speaker 8: were not providing him with the requids that they were
Speaker 8: supposed to be providing.
Speaker 4: But Jack's reaction is not what I expect.
Speaker 8: I said something to the defects of what makes you
Speaker 8: think they could have publish that?
Speaker 2: And that's when I start to think, how far does
Speaker 2: USC's influence actually go? Is it possible that it could
Speaker 2: extend all the way into my own newsroom? Next time
Speaker 2: on Fallen Angels as.
Speaker 8: An investigative reporter. Every story could be your lost.
Speaker 2: Matt and I face an uphill battle trying to get
Speaker 2: our Pullia Fido story in the paper.
Speaker 7: I was in this defiant mode and kind of clung
Speaker 7: to the idea that Dagon City wasn't closing the door
Speaker 7: to more reporting.
Speaker 4: So we decide to force the issue.
Speaker 3: I remember being in the conference room and Matt had said, like, look,
Speaker 3: we're going to do this thing.
Speaker 4: We're just going to keep it on the downlow. We're
Speaker 4: going to make it so they have to publish Paul story.
Speaker 4: That's next time. On Angels.
Speaker 2: Fallen Angels, The Story of California Corruption is a production
Speaker 2: of iHeart Podcasts in partnership with Best Case Studios. I'm
Speaker 2: Paul Pringle. This show is based on my book Bad City,
Speaker 2: Peril and Power in the City of Angels. Fallen Angels
Speaker 2: was written by Isabel Evans, Adam Pinks, and Brent Katz.
Speaker 2: Isabel Evans is our producer, Brent Katz is co producer.
Speaker 2: Associate producers are Hanna Leebowitz, Lockhart and On Pajo Locke.
Speaker 2: Executive producers are Me, Paul Pringle, Joe Picarello, and Adam Pinkus.
Speaker 2: For Best Case Studios. Original music is by James Newberry.
Speaker 2: This episode was edited by Max Michael Miller with assistants
Speaker 2: from Nisha Venkat. Additional editings, sound design, and additional music
Speaker 2: by Dean White. Harriet Ryan, Matt Hamilton, Sarah Parvini and
Speaker 2: Adam Almarik are consulting producers. Our iHeart team is Ali
Speaker 2: Perry and Carl Ketel. Following eight Fallen Angels Wherever you
Speaker 2: get your Podcasts, m