1 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: There's going to be a moment in time or use 2 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: the cold case detective or the only person in the 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: world that knows who killed that person. 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: When police discovered the body of nine year old Candy 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Rogers in the woods outside of Spokane, Washington, she'd been 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: raped and strangled. The attack was so brutal that it 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: shook veteran officers. Many had a hard time speaking about 8 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: what they'd seen at the crime scene. For sixty two years, 9 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 2: all leads turned up cold, and Candy's murder became the 10 00:00:52,000 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: largest case file in Spokane's history. But in twenty twenty one, 11 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: detectives had their first big break. This is America's Crime Lab. 12 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 2: I'm Alan Lancelesser. This is part two of the Candy 13 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: Rogers case. If you've missed the previous episode, you'll want 14 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: to go back and listen. Producer Katherine Fenalosa is here. 15 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: So when we left the story, seamen from Candy's underwear 16 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: had been tested and once they had a DNA profile, 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: Authroom did forensic genetic genealogy and that led them to 18 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: three brothers. 19 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, the three Hoff brothers, and all three did live 20 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 3: in Spokane, but unfortunately they've all since died. So investigators 21 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 3: looked to see if any of them had children, and 22 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 3: two of the brothers did not, but one did. John 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: ray Hoff actually had four kids. And Sergeant Zach Stormant 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: decides to reach out to Kathy, a daughter, and Kathy 25 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: actually agrees to meet with Sergeant Stormant at the police 26 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: station along with her own daughter. 27 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: So what do we know about Kathy's dad, Well. 28 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 3: He grew up in Spokane. He was the oldest of 29 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 3: the three brothers. And Alan, do you remember the boys 30 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: home that David Middelman asked Sergeant Stormant to look into. 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that came up when they were doing genealogy research. 32 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 3: So Athram found a clue showing that someone in the 33 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 3: killer's family was connected to a boy's home in Washington State, 34 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 3: and Sergeant Stormant says, it turns out that John ray 35 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: Hoff actually spent some time living at that home. 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: He's got stealing, he stole a car, he did some 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: PEFs type stuff. His parents were concerned enough about his 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: behavior that somehow they came to the agreement that he 39 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: was going to join the army early at seventeen, and 40 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: they signed in for him to do that. 41 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: So John ray Hoff joins the army and he ends 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: up serving as an inventory clerk while he's deployed to Korea. Now, 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: while he's gone Alan, his wife actually has an affair 44 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 3: with one of his brothers, and that detail will become 45 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: important later, so just kind of like tuck that away. 46 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: He returns to the Spokane area and in nineteen fifty nine, 47 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: when Candy is murdered, John ray Hoff is twenty years 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: old and he's living just a mile from Candy's house. 49 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: Did they know each other? I mean, did he know 50 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 2: Candy's family at all? 51 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 3: So there is a connection. John ray Hoff had a 52 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: younger stepsister who was just a year older than Candy, 53 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: and she was also in the Campfire Girls, you know 54 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: that group sort of like the girl Scouts that Candy 55 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: was a part of. But police don't think that John 56 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: ever actually met Candy. 57 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: It still just shows what a small world it is. 58 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: So he had these early run ins with police. Are 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: there any other red flags? 60 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 3: Well, a few years after Candy's murder, John ray Hoff 61 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: is convicted of assault. He pretended he was interested in 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: an apartment and when he arrived to look at it, 63 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: he attacks the female property manager. He actually strangles and 64 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: undresses her, and he ties her up with her own clothing, 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: which is also how Candy was restrained. Luckily, the property 66 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: manager survives the attack. John ray Hoff serves six months 67 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 3: in jail and he's declared a deserter and he's discharged 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 3: from the Army and Alan. There's also another murder that 69 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 3: happens about six months after Candy's. 70 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: Death, a girl named Sherry Edgel. 71 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: Sherry is also nine years old when she's abducted, assaulted, 72 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 3: and strangled. Her body was found in a blood soaked 73 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: nightgown in a tall, grassy area off a highway and Aylen. 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 3: This happened about forty five minutes from the boy's home, 75 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: where John ray Hoff had spent some time several years before. 76 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: This guy has ties to that area because that base 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: over there is Lewis McCord. It's a Joint Army Air 78 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: Force base and he did spend some time serving there 79 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: as well, and it makes me wonder about him. 80 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: That case is still unsolved. 81 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 2: Those two cases have some strange similarities. And what happens 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: to John ray Hoff after he's kicked out of the army. 83 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: So he sells silverware door to door for a time, 84 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: then he works in a lumberyard and a meatpacking plant. 85 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: And then when he's thirty one, he takes his own life. 86 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: Oh wow, do we know why he killed himself? 87 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 3: Well, at the time, he was married with four children, 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 3: and his family just thought he was depressed. 89 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: At any point in the investigation, was his name on 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: any suspect list. 91 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: No, his name never pops up on detective's radar until 92 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: Authrem builds out the family tree. And that's all based 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: on the DNA from the seamen found on Candy's underwear. 94 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 3: And now Sergeant Stormant is sitting across the table from 95 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 3: John Rayhoff's daughter Kathy and his granddaughter. 96 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: Of it was I'm destroying what I would view as 97 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: my father. I'm seeing it personally because I don't know 98 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: how she sees her own and I'm thinking, God, this 99 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: is horrible. And same with the daughter who's thinking about Grandpa. 100 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: You're essentially pulling up their route and tearing it out 101 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: of the ground and saying, now, your family is not 102 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: what you think. She was very affected by what happened 103 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: to Candy. It was the horror of what happened to 104 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: this little girl. And anybody that knows this case knows 105 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: Candy Candy w have died very hard there's no other 106 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: way to say it. 107 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: And the whole case could rest on this moment because 108 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: Kathy could get up and walk away. 109 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he knows he has to win her trust. 110 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: It does not take a lot to turn one of 111 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: these from stone cold. No one's ever going to solve 112 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: this to red hot. I am a cold case detective 113 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: and I think you can help me with a homicide. 114 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: And it's a lightning bolt. So few people are going 115 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: to be hit with this opportunity or responsibility or dread. 116 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,679 Speaker 2: I wonder what Kathy's thinking at this point. 117 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: Sergeant Stormant says she was listening super intently when her 118 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: father died. She was nine years old, just like Candy. 119 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: And in this moment, it's becoming very clear to Kathy 120 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: that her father is a prime suspect in Spokane's oldest 121 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: cold case, and that detectives need her DNA, and Kathy 122 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: agrees to give a sample. 123 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: She very willingly gave that. I collected buckle swaps from 124 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: her at that moment, and obviously I had a million 125 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: more questions for I told her we're going to talk more, 126 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: but I wanted to get the DNA to the lab. 127 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: Sergeant Stormant literally races out of the room with Kathy's 128 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: DNA because he wants to get it to the lab 129 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 3: before they close. And he meets Britney right from the 130 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 3: State Crime Lab. 131 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: And she has tested so many DNA samples on this 132 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: case trying to find her guy, and it's always been nope. 133 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: And she met me at the window and I said, 134 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: this is the one, this is the case, and she 135 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: kind of she was, we'll see. There's been so many 136 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: Brittany worked I believe through the night on this. She 137 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: had that done in twenty four hours and it is 138 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: a lightning bolt moment for both of us. It's incredible. 139 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: It is like, holy, forgive my language, holy shit, this 140 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: is that actually going to be the end of the 141 00:08:58,920 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: Candy Rogers case. 142 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: So Allen, while Sergeant Storman is incredibly excited to have 143 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: Kathy's DNA tested, he's also really nervous because remember I 144 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier that while her dad was serving in Korea, 145 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: her mom had an affair with one of his brothers. 146 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: Yes, so I mean, as you worried about paternity. 147 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's still a possibility that it could actually 148 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: be one of his brothers. 149 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: And families being what they are, Kathy believes she knows 150 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: who her dad is, but I've got to make sure. 151 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm worried about what do we know. 152 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: So he reaches out to Kathy's mom, who's still alive, 153 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: and amazingly, she agrees to talk to him. 154 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: And with some conversation, and we got very much into 155 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: the personal life. And I hate having those conversations, especially 156 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: with an older lady. I feel you know a duty 157 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: to respect your elders, and I'm having conversations about paternity. 158 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 3: And this is where it gets a little even more complicated, 159 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 3: because David Middleman says Kathy's DNA test comes. 160 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 4: Back her doing the DNA test then further confirmed that 161 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 4: she was in a parent child relationship with the contributor. 162 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: So Kathy is the child of the murderer. Yeah, exactly, 163 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: But with this whole affair her mom had, we don't 164 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: know if the killer is actually John ray Hoff or 165 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: one of his brothers. 166 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: Correct, And all of these questions and sort of messy 167 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: family dynamics make it so tricky for Sergeant Stormant. Even 168 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: though he's getting closer to an answer. 169 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of overwhelming joy in it, but I 170 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to embrace that yet. There was a horrible 171 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: process that I still had to go through. I felt 172 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on it. 173 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: So what's this process he's talking about? I mean, how 174 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: do you narrow down which of the three brothers committed 175 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: the crime? They're all dead and John ray Hoff is 176 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: the only one who had kids. 177 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 3: Right, So really, the only thing investigators can do is 178 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: test John ray Hoff's own DNA to prove either that 179 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 3: he's the killer or to rule him out. 180 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: Which would mean one of his brothers is the real killer. 181 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: And the thing is Alan David Milman says, testing John 182 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: ray Hoff's DNA is way more complicated than getting DNA 183 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 3: from a mouth swab. 184 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 4: So the investigators pursued a search warrant that allowed them 185 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 4: to believe it or not, exhume the remains of this person. 186 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: They have to dig up his body, and then I'm 187 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: guessing if it's not him, they've got to go through 188 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: this whole process exhuming the bodies of his brothers too. 189 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the search could actually be even wider than that. 190 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 4: You can never be sure, right, because who's to say 191 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 4: that there wasn't a half brother that nobody knows about 192 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 4: or a secret brother that no one knows about. 193 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 5: Yeah. 194 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: I mean, when it comes down to it, families have 195 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: secrets and who knows what anyone wants to admit to. 196 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is so true, and it gets even worse. 197 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: So Sergeant Strumant reaches back out to Kathy and her 198 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: mom because he needs to find out where John ray 199 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 3: Hoff is buried so they can exhume his body. 200 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: Dad was buried and still intact, hadn't been cremated. That 201 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: led to another horrible revelation, as he was buried in 202 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: the same cemetery as Candy. She's in a mausoleum there 203 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: at Riverside State Park, and he was buried in a 204 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: plot about several hundred yards away, and that was disgusting 205 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: to me and disgusting to them as well. 206 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: To their credit, Sergeant Strumant gets a warrant to exhume 207 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: John ray Hoff's body, and when he arrives at the cemetery, 208 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 3: he brings a few people. Brittany right from the State 209 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: Crime Lab, there's someone from the Medical Examiner's office, and 210 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 3: there's a funeral director now Allen. It's been fifty years 211 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: since John ray Hoff's body was buried, so they're not 212 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: really sure what they're going to find. 213 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: We were concerned about water infiltration, We were concerned about collapse 214 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: on the coffin, and we started with a back coage, 215 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: just digging very carefully, and we actually saw as we 216 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: were going that we could see a collapse. 217 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: So there's a vault around the area where his coffin 218 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 3: was buried, and it was built with pieces of concrete 219 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: rather than poured concrete, so. 220 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: They're pretty fragile, and the pressure of digging caused it 221 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: to collapse. And then we started digging by hand. So 222 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: that was myself and two detectives with just buckets, just 223 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: scooping dirt in until we got to the lid, and 224 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: good luck again was on our side. The vault was dry, 225 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: hadn't been filled with water. Brittany was concerned enough that 226 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: we didn't know what's going to yield DNA here. We 227 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: decided we're going to take the whole body. 228 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: So they take his entire body back to the police 229 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: evidence facility and Alan. Initially they actually have trouble getting 230 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 3: DNA from his remains, but ultimately they're able to get 231 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 3: some from his teeth. 232 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: The DNA test on the body comes back very definitively, 233 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: but it's one of those astronomical numbers that it's definitive. 234 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: So at this point we know it is John and 235 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: not one of the brothers. 236 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: So John ray Hoff was in fact the killer. 237 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 3: Yes, and this is a huge effort. So everyone is 238 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 3: massively relieved, including David Middleman. 239 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of pressure applied to 240 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 4: Detective Stormant, to the agency as a whole, because they 241 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 4: are going out of their comfort zone trying a new technique. 242 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 4: They had been faced only with failure and previous attempts 243 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 4: to identify him. So there's a lot of naysayers. Several 244 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 4: labs had said this work can't be done. They refused 245 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 4: to take the work and thought it was impossible. Is 246 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 4: Detective Stormant chasing a white whale? And perhaps the most 247 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 4: wild thing of all is he had never been under 248 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 4: consideration for being related to this case. 249 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: It's honestly shocking that for six decades, John ray Hoff 250 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: was never on the suspect list I know. 251 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: So Sergeant Stormant decides to hold a press conference to 252 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: announce who the killer is and in November twenty twenty one, 253 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: Kristin Middleman travels to Spokane for the event. 254 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 5: I will remember every part of that day for the 255 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 5: rest of my life. It was a snowy day in Spokane, Washington. 256 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 5: It was hard to get into the airport. We drove 257 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 5: up to where the press conference was being held, and 258 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 5: I don't know what I thought I expected. I think 259 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 5: I expected a few people, but there were. It was 260 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 5: a full room. The entire police station was filled. 261 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Once it was sold, I just started looking up everybody 262 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: that was involved in it that I could to find 263 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: who wants to know. 264 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: And that's because this case affected so many people. Yeah, 265 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: I mean Alan, remember the men who died during the 266 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: helicopter crash while they were searching for candy, and then 267 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: all of these detectives over the years who really became 268 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 3: so emotionally invested in the case. 269 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: I have a picture up here on my wall. God, 270 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: this is Roscoe Gearing And you got to think of 271 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: the people at the time. Roscoe served in the Marine 272 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: Corps and landed on Okinawa. Oh I'm sorry. His daughter's 273 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: got a hold of me. After it was announced it 274 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: was solved, and incredibly, they knew a lot about this case. 275 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: They said that their dad and other detectives at dinner 276 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: would sit and talk about it. Unfortunately, Rosco had passed away, 277 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: but they said their dad had mentioned a belt buckle. 278 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: He says, his dad knew that if they'd know him 279 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: by his belt buckle, and that was new to me. 280 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that before. But I think that speaks 281 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: to how she was restrained, obviously, But I wish he'd 282 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: have been around to find out. Those guys that took 283 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: me under their wing, and when they retired, essimply took 284 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: those boxes and put them on my desk. I felt 285 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: responsibility to them, and almost silly and undeserving of being 286 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: the one in the seat when the stars aligned, when 287 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: something like authorm emerged and in this incredible technology. 288 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: Back at the press conference, current and former detectives are 289 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 3: gathered and Kristin Middleman notices one older who is visibly emotional. 290 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 5: And so I introduced myself and said, can I help? 291 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 5: Are you okay? And the person told me that they 292 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 5: were actually the detective that found Candy Rogers that day, 293 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 5: sixty two years ago, and he would have been very young. 294 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 5: He was in his nineties, and he was ninety three 295 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 5: years old, I believe, at the press conference, and he 296 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 5: said one sentence. I waited every single day my entire 297 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 5: life to hear this answer, this can't come fast enough. 298 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: And yeah, it hit him so hard. Yeah, I said, 299 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: he thank god it lived long enough to see it's all. 300 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: They took it very personally. 301 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: Now, Allen, after all of this, there's still the question 302 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 3: of what do you do with John ray Hoff's body. 303 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 3: I mean, no one was comfortable with the fact that 304 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: he had originally been buried so close to Candy, just 305 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 3: knowing her family has been walking near his grave when 306 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 3: visiting hers. I mean, it's kind of creepy. So Sergeant 307 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 3: Stormant reaches out to John ray Hoff's wife and his daughter. 308 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: Kathy, and they were both of the opinion, now, we 309 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: don't want him to go back there. They had the 310 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: same he shouldn't be there with her, So we arranged 311 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: to have his headstone destroyed and that was done. 312 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 3: They eventually cremate his body and bury him in a 313 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: different cemetery. 314 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: And how is Kathy dealing with all of this? 315 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: So this has been incredibly hard on her and her siblings. 316 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 6: Disbelief, but not that I didn't believe it, but it's 317 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 6: just it takes a while for it to sink in. 318 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 5: And anger, sadness. 319 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 7: It's just really sad to find out that it's someone 320 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 7: that not even that it's just your dad, but just 321 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 7: someone in your family could. 322 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 6: Do something like that and he committed suicide. I had 323 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 6: lived most of my life thinking he did it because 324 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 6: he was very depressed or something, and now I think, no, 325 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 6: you know, that's he was evil. He was evil, and 326 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 6: he was it wasn't escape away from it, but he 327 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 6: got to He got to die with people thinking he 328 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 6: was an upstanding man and he wasn't. 329 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 2: Sixty two years later, we finally know that John Rayhoff 330 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: is the person who raped and murdered Candy Rogers. And 331 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 2: to think that so many labs said they couldn't work 332 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 2: on this case because the DNA was so small and degraded. 333 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: I mean, this was so close to being an unsolvable case. 334 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And at the time it kind of came down 335 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 3: to luck. Paul Hols was working with the Spokane Police 336 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 3: Department and he'd just come off the Carla Walker case 337 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 3: with AUTHORM. So it was really a situation where detectives 338 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: had run out of all options, and Paul was like, 339 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 3: wait a second, I think authoram can actually crack this case. 340 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: And David Middleman says, in a lot of ways, the 341 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 3: Candy Rogers case was a turning point. 342 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 4: We've demonstrated now that it doesn't matter where you're from 343 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 4: when the crime happened, what the circumstances were. If there's 344 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 4: an unsolved crime and there's DNA evidence, there's an answer 345 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 4: that's waiting. 346 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: And now that we do have an answer in Candy 347 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: Rogers murder, does that help us understand other details of 348 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: the crime, like what actually happened that night? 349 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 8: Kind of? 350 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 3: I mean, Sergeant's stormant has a few theories. So first 351 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: he mapped out where authorities found the boxes of mints 352 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 3: that she was selling. 353 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: Some of the mint boxes were found right on the roadway. 354 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: One other box was found a little bit off. There's 355 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: a little off rent that kind of goes into a 356 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: wooded area. Can't help but wonder if that is where 357 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: he assaulted her, and what his intent was, if it 358 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: was to assault and let her go. 359 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: Oh so why didn't he Well, Allen, if you remember, 360 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 3: both Candy's family and the police immediately just had a 361 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 3: feeling that something was wrong. 362 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: I wonder if because the parents were looking so quickly, 363 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: and if you look at the geography, that little area 364 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: looks up back up the hill where her house is, 365 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: and that area would have been flooded with people looking 366 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: flashlights and police cars everywhere, and he had to come 367 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: up with a different plan. And if sexual assault changed 368 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: to buying time and restraining or somewhere else. 369 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 2: So maybe he panicked and took her. But how does 370 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: her body end up in the woods? 371 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 3: Well, the theory goes that since John Rayhoff had been 372 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 3: in the military, he may have been familiar with the 373 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 3: woods because they were around a military base that was 374 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: in the process of being decommissioned, so it also would 375 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 3: have been fairly vacant. 376 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: He would have known those buildings were available. And we 377 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: know that Candy was held for a period of days, 378 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: and I go back to we know what she ate. 379 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: She ate that cookie at Grandma's house, and then at 380 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: autopsy it looks like she's eating an orange. She was restrained. 381 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: Her body was found with her hands were free, but 382 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 1: her feet were bound but agature. Her hands had obviously 383 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: been bound at some point, and a ligature is found 384 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: around her neck, presumably the one from her hands was 385 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: moved to her neck when she ultimately was killed. I 386 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: suspect that he obviously couldn't take her home, he had 387 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: a family there. I think that those are the most 388 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: likely spot that he could have had privacy. 389 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: Sergeant Stormann says this is all speculation on his part, 390 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 3: and he's actually hoping that someone will read through the 391 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 3: case file because it's all public now, and see if 392 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 3: his theory adds up and there's something else that happened. 393 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 8: Alan. 394 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: After Othram was able to point detectives to Candy's killer, 395 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: Spokenne City officials had a request. 396 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 5: They had a backlog of I believe it was thirty 397 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 5: eight unidentified human remains. They said, we will fund clearing 398 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 5: and identifying every single one of them using your methods. 399 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 5: We're in twenty twenty five and their backlog is clear, 400 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 5: but we continue to work cases with the PD there 401 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 5: and the Medical Examiner's office in real time. 402 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 2: You can see how even though we know who killed Candy, 403 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: there are still so many questions. And I get the 404 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: feeling that Sergeant Stormant isn't ready to completely walk away 405 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: from this case. 406 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 3: And maybe that's why stories like these capture our attention. 407 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 3: I mean, they are so horrific, and maybe the only 408 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 3: way to process it is to try to understand what 409 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 3: makes people go off the deep end in the first place. 410 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: It's incredible what one person's selfish actions in a small 411 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: amount of time to damage and the ripple effect that 412 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: spread through the decades can have. It's incredible. 413 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 6: I'm very very sorry for what my dad did, and 414 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 6: he took her life. 415 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 7: Horribly, and that he took her mom's life really took 416 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 7: her dad's life. He took more lives than one. And 417 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 7: even though I didn't do it and I'm not responsible, 418 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 7: I hope that it gives me snowing that even though 419 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 7: it's not really justice because he doesn't get any punishment, 420 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 7: but that his name has this on it now and 421 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 7: they can know it's solved and everybody can know it's. 422 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 8: Done next time. 423 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: On America's Crime. 424 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 9: Lab, this is the second largest case of unidentified human 425 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 9: remains in this country, Sucker only two the World Tracer. 426 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 9: She couldn't believe it, and she was in shock and disbelief, 427 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 9: and I remember her even telling me, I'm not gonna 428 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 9: believe it until I have his ashes in my hand. 429 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 10: That is an absolutely daunting undertaking to try and identify 430 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 10: all those people, but it's exactly the right thing to do. 431 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 10: Doing the right thing isn't always easy, but it's always 432 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 10: the right thing. 433 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 434 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: Erica lance is our story editor and sound design is 435 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa and 436 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: Jessica Albert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh Hadikadour 437 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: and David and Kristin Middleman and from iHeart Katrina Norville 438 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, 439 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 2: Carrie Lieberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank, and the 440 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 2: entire team Authrum, I'm Allen lance lessor thanks for listening.