1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Chip. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, I'm back in town baby, Welcome home. I 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: had a really early flight today. I always think it's 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: really funny. It's like always the days I have to 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: record on the like the podcast, I don't sleep well 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: or something, and so then it's like half of brains. 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: The poor listeners, I mean, they get this version of 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: me that's like, sorry, guys. 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 3: I mean it could have been worse. You could have 10 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 3: landed and had to do this right away. 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: I actually think that might have been better. I was 12 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: a little more awake earlier at this the day, it's 13 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: like I'm hitting that maybe I need a nap or something. 14 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 15 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 4: We're going to power through though. 16 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: We got it. 17 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: We got it. 18 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: You know what. 19 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: It ties into the topic a little bit, you guys. 20 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: We have been yeah, we've been noticing that our culture 21 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: has a little bit of an issue with admitting defeat 22 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: and admitting that they failed at some point in their life. 23 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: And we were talking about that chip and our data, 24 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: and now I was like, this feels like a topic. 25 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: This is like a little bit of the edgy side 26 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: of the growth mindset to address this, like perfectionism happening 27 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: in our culture. I'm so guilty of it. I think 28 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: you are. We talked about like everyone around us. It's 29 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: like we only want to present this best version of ourselves, 30 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 2: which is so not the human process, like at all, 31 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: Like it's. 32 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Not at all what it means to be a human. 33 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: We all fuck up, we all fail, and yet we're 34 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: sitting here as these people who only want to talk 35 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: about success all the time. 36 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: You know what's funny too, is it's obviously a lot 37 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: easier to look back when you are successful and admit 38 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: your failures because of course, right some of the big names, 39 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: which we'll get into it to some examples, but like 40 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: that is such a part of their story and it 41 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 3: becomes like lore. You know, it's what we talk about 42 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: about them, Like look what they overcame, and it's all 43 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 3: about overcoming things. And even like an example like Lizzo 44 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: who road to fame by pointing out what she thought 45 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 3: everyone would make fun of her for and using it 46 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: as an asset. That's a really great example of sort 47 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: of bucking the system. That is, everything has to be 48 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 3: perfect and beautifully engineered and filtered and whatever you name it. However, 49 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: you fix something so that you give a perception of perfection, 50 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 3: but I do think it's funny that, like, why is 51 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: it that until we succeed, we are not able to 52 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: recognize and admit and embrace our failures. It's I know, personally, 53 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: I'm fucking terrified. 54 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you, do you have 55 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 2: a certain instance you're thinking about in your life, because 56 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: I know I'm sitting here thinking about this for me, 57 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 2: and that is so true for me. Not on purpose, 58 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: but it's like I've just felt shame or scared or whatever, 59 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: So what's yours? 60 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: I mean, coming out as gay felt like admitting a failure. 61 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: My first job was at Atlantic Records, when I knew 62 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: I wanted to quit in my soul, I knew I 63 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: had to leave, but I was fucking scared because I 64 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 3: thought people would think I had failed. It took a 65 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: lot of like conversations with people I trusted and really 66 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 3: looking deep to realize I hadn't failed, I'd succeeded, and 67 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: it was time for a new goal. I had gotten 68 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: everything I ever dreamt of, and I think like suddenly 69 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 3: there was like a door that I was opening that 70 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: was like a black hole because there wasn't another dream 71 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: on the other side. So to me, it translated as well, 72 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 3: you failed, You're not running Atlantic records, and I never 73 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: set out to do that. I set out to look 74 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: at Atlantic records. So I mean that's an example. When 75 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: I was trying to think of examples earlier, I thought 76 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 3: to myself, is fear of failure equivalent to fear of success? 77 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 4: Oh? 78 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: That's deep, because I do think it is. They do 79 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: seem to be connected. I'm trying to go through that 80 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: in my mind right now, though I might need a 81 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: minute to. 82 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: Process that one. 83 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: The fear of success is a weird one that I've 84 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: been bouncing around in my head too, because to me, 85 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: I think what that equates to is exposure. And like 86 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: in the past couple of years, I've wanted to retreat 87 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: because of what I deemed its failures in my life. 88 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: Right and now it's interesting because to your point that 89 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: you said earlier, it's like now that I'm like coming 90 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: out of the haze and finding my stride again and 91 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: I have some new ideas of new things I want 92 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: to do, I'm going, oh, well, that had to happen then, 93 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: because I would have never done it. 94 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 3: In line a totally different paths exactly. 95 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 2: But it's not until this point that you can always 96 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: see it. But I've done it both ways. Like over 97 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: a decade ago, I was engaged to be married and 98 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: that fell through three months before the wedding, and I 99 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: just completely shut down. I wouldn't really talk about it 100 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: with my friends. Obviously, everyone knew what happened. It happened 101 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: very publicly, but it was like I couldn't talk about 102 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 2: it because I was so ashamed of what it meant 103 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: or whatever what I thought it looked like for me 104 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 2: or meant for me. And then I've done the. 105 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 4: Reverse the last couple years, where it's. 106 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: Like I was made into a villain on a reality 107 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: TV show that I didn't expect, and then COVID happened 108 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: and I lost some clients I wasn't expecting to lose, 109 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: and it was just like these things that I really 110 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: felt ashamed about. I was I love to like over 111 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: own responsibility. So like maybe it was just like you said, 112 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: time to move on. Things just played out the way 113 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: they were supposed to. But I couldn't look at it 114 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: that way. I just looked at it as like I 115 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: had fucked up something, I had done something wrong, I 116 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: had caused something to happen. Blah blah, blah blah blah, 117 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: And in this case, I tried to work through it 118 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: by like talking about it as much as I could. 119 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: I guess I don't know, but like either way, there's 120 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: this like sense of exposure that I think sends us 121 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: into this shame spiral because if we feel like we failed, 122 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: we're just like, why am I not enough? Because everyone 123 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: else out there seems to be so successful. 124 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: And it appears to be that no one else is 125 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: afraid of failure, right. 126 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: I also, let's just not talked about, is it right? 127 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: Right? Something that's rooted in my fear of failure is 128 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: my people pleasing qualities because I feel like if I fail, 129 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: it affects so many other people, but I rarely give 130 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 3: myself the praise when I succeed that it positively impacts 131 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 3: other people. So it's weird that I like, yeah, because. 132 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: It's like you each out yourself like a yeah, that's 133 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: like perfectionism one O one, isn't it. It's like you 134 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: literally expect yourself to be perfect and then when you're 135 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: a human, you shame. 136 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 4: The shit out of yourself. 137 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 2: Yes, you can't win for trying, But it's interesting because 138 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: as I was talking about, like you know, talking about 139 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: when you're going through the failure, And I do think 140 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: there's something to like we need a certain capacity or 141 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: a certain level of healing within ourselves to be able 142 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: to discuss things openly because we're so sensitive and fragulent. 143 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: It's more painful maybe, but it's almost as if to me, 144 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: our society has this like intolerance to failure. We can 145 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: only tolerate perfection or success, and that's really all that 146 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: we applaud, But we don't really applaud someone's journey. Like 147 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: I was telling you before the podcast, every time I 148 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 2: have a veryous, accessful person on the podcast, the first 149 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: thing I want to know is what are all the 150 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: fuck ups? What are all the failures that you had 151 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: to go through before you got to this point? Because 152 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: the realist in me is like, I know, you didn't 153 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: just start Amazon as your first business, you know what 154 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: I mean? Right, That's a wild example, but it just 155 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: feels like that is what we expect. We talk about 156 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: people who go viral on TikTok and they have this 157 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: amazing song and they blow up really fast, and it's 158 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, they're the most successful thing. 159 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: But like, what most of the time The pitfall there 160 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: is that they're very quickly forgotten because they weren't ready 161 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: for the success, and the failure there becomes almost insurmountable. 162 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 3: Whereas when you're failing on my more micro levels, building 163 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: your story and learning your lessons and becoming more empathetic 164 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: to other people who are failing and just figuring out 165 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: how to navigate failure, which is inevitable, it then makes 166 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: success easier the closer you get to it. Wow, the 167 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: success is ever easy, It's just it makes the path 168 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: a little more navigate navigatable is that a word can 169 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: be reversible, let's say traversable. 170 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: The TikTok thing is an interesting example because, like you 171 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: did this week on the Wednesday podcast, and I was 172 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: talking about one of the artists I've been working with 173 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: as a new artist, and he's talking about the pressure 174 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: from labels to go get a viral tiktokke, and I said, yeah, 175 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 2: that works. But like I've also worked with people who 176 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: have had that and they have nowhere near the amount 177 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 2: of success long term or ultimately. As someone who has 178 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 2: come up through the trenches, who has had to make 179 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: their way playing in the bars on Broadway and all 180 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: that stuff, because of experience, and what that really means 181 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: is because they failed in some way, shape or form, 182 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: and so then they had all of these times where 183 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 2: they were like, Okay, that worked, this didn't. This experience 184 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: was good, this one was bad. And then you pick 185 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: and choose, and you can craft your own career, your 186 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 2: own success, your own life, store, your own relationship, whatever 187 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: it is, because of the pluses and minuses, the wins 188 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: and the losses. Right, and in those situations where you 189 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: have the fast success, which I think is what our 190 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: culture wants right now, you really don't set yourself up 191 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: for the long term win or long term goals being fulfilled, 192 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: the long term success like maintaining right. 193 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: I think too, it's like I never set out with 194 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 3: a path other than a one single goal, so I 195 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: am not even equipped really to think about the steps 196 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 3: because what is that quote. I'm going to butcher it, 197 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: but it's basically like do one rung of the ladder 198 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,239 Speaker 3: at a time, not the whole ladder or the staircase 199 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: or whatever it is. Because we are trained to think 200 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 3: that all these people that are in our little phone 201 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 3: that are suddenly rich and famous or successful or whatever 202 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: did it really fast. So we want to be at 203 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: the top of the staircase immediately. But every step is 204 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 3: important and if you fall down, you just got to 205 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 3: get back up and do the next step. The path 206 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: to success is painted so clearly for us when we're children, 207 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 3: because we have no option but to succeed in learning 208 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: to walk, learning that the stove is hot, like learning 209 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: those things that you have to do the look. 210 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: But isn't that Isn't that technically a failure? 211 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 3: If you touch a hot sew one hundred percent. 212 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: As an adult, I would be like, oh my god, 213 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: I should have known better instead. 214 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: Of like going, oh, that's hot. 215 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 3: Right. 216 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: It's interesting how we talk to ourselves. But you bring 217 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: up a really good point, and we were talking about 218 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: this before the podcast too. There's a lot of really, 219 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: really hugely successful people that we can reference here, Oprah 220 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: Winfrey being one of them, who I'm a massive fan of. 221 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: But she had so many failings before she actually was 222 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: able to become the Oprah that we know today. I 223 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: know early in her career there was a lot of struggles, 224 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 2: Like she was fired from her first job as a 225 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: news anchor. The producers felt she was too emotionally invested 226 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: in stories. I mean tell me that's not a mead 227 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: situation or not like, but also, isn't that. 228 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: What she wants from a journals exactly? 229 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: But you know, maybe they just want someone to read 230 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: the news and not be emotionally connected to it, and 231 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: she was. But after she got fired, she bounced back 232 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: and instead of giving up, she actually found her calling 233 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: through that. She was like, Oh, I am emotionally invested, 234 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: and that's how she ended up in daytime TV on 235 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: the Oprah Show over Winfrey Show. Like we know, she 236 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: was like, Oh, this is teaching me something about myself. 237 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: I can't be a news anchor that sits and reads 238 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: the news without connecting to how tragic that story is. 239 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 3: But I can't sit deep. 240 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can sit with someone going through their 241 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: story and telling me the hardships of it and emotionally 242 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: connect to them and actually have a really powerful conversation. 243 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: And there's a space for that too. So it was 244 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: really a teachable moment, an aha moment. 245 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 3: If you want a moment. 246 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: I think she used it in the way that we 247 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 2: see a lot of successful people do and we don't 248 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: know about, but in the way of oh okay, this 249 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: didn't work there, But that is actually who I am, 250 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna use it to my advantage. 251 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 3: I didn't know that about her. 252 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: Steve Jobs is another one. It says one of the 253 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: most famous failures in business history. Steve Jobs was fired 254 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: from Apple, which is hilarious, the company he co founded 255 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five after a power struggle with the 256 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: board of directors and then CEO John Scully. Jobs was 257 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: ousted from his own company. How he bounced back instead 258 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: of letting the failure define him, Jobs would want to 259 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 2: found another company Next and then bought Pixar, which revolutionized 260 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: the animation industry. Obviously like films like Toy Story and 261 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: things like that. Eventually Apple bought Next and then Jobs 262 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: returned to the company. So the failure led him to 263 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: then create the iPod, the iPhone, and MacBook Apple Like 264 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: it really actually put Apple way more on the radar 265 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: than it ever was when. 266 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: He came out. 267 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: I mean, Apple was viewed as kind of a failing 268 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 3: company at that point. 269 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and says Jobs firing taught him humility and resilience. 270 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: It shaped the visionary leadership style he brought to his 271 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: return to Apple. His biggest failure was his springboard for 272 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 2: Apple's greatest successes. Wow, I know, isn't that crazy? So anyway, 273 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: I think like the reframe that we're talking about here 274 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: is like just we're asking the question, why are we 275 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: looking at failures as let's cancel them, let's get them 276 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: out of here. Not to like get back on my 277 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: soapbox about Will Smith, but that was obviously not a 278 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: great moment with him and Chris Rock. We've referenced this 279 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: a million times. If you guys haven't heard chippin has 280 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: conversation I'm talking about when it was the Oscars, right, this. 281 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: Was two years ago. 282 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: Now, I think and yeah, I said, I think it's 283 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: what he does with it. I think that really what 284 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: we should look at as the culture is not that moment. 285 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 2: That moment was to yes, but then he immediately apologized 286 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: and went into work on himself. So it's like, how 287 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: is that moment going to help him evolve as a 288 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: human and do we don't even know what with his life, 289 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: with his career, what success could come after such a public, 290 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: humiliating failing. And that to me is when you find 291 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: your true leaders, your true success stories, and probably some 292 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: of the biggest transitions in our culture. 293 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: And the deepest growth internally too. I mean, look, we 294 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 3: do live in a cancel culture, and as a society, 295 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 3: we lack forgiveness, and to use the Will Smith example, 296 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: like we put these celebrities on these pedestals that they 297 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: don't deserve to be on because they're human beings, they 298 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: probably don't want to be on other than the benefits 299 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 3: of fame, right, And so when something like that happens, 300 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: our initial reaction is to write that person off, aka 301 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 3: cancel them, rather than to have empathy for them and 302 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: recognize that they are humans. The way that we look 303 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 3: at them is that we think that they're superhuman because 304 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: they're famous. And that's silly, right, Like Will Smith works 305 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 3: really hard at a job that's public, you know, like, yeah, yeah, 306 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: it's just a public job. And yeah it's cool that 307 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: he's famous. Yeah what I want my photo with him? 308 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 3: And I saw him. Yeah, But like he's still a 309 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: fucking human being. And I guarantee you he was the 310 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 3: most embarrassed about it. He was the one beating himself 311 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: up more than any part. Yeah, So there was nothing 312 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: that anyone could say that would make him feel worse 313 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 3: than he already felt. So the job of other humans 314 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 3: in that moment would be to lift him up and 315 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: hope that there's a learning moment there and he comes 316 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 3: out of it a better human being. 317 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: This is kind of a little side note, but I've 318 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: been thinking about this a lot lately, Like I do 319 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: think there's something happening with celebrity in our world, and 320 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: I think we've gone through this intense moment of cancel culture. 321 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: But I think what my hope is moving forward is 322 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: that we look at it as we're describing it. 323 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 4: Celebrity is a public job. 324 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: They make a lot of money, They have access to 325 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: some things that us regular folks might not. However, at 326 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: the end of the day, they are just as human, 327 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: if not more than any of us. And I just 328 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: hope that celebrity starts to be looked at in a 329 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: different way, and also with that hope that failure starts 330 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: to be looked at it a different way. I was 331 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: looking up the words failing forward because I think we 332 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: deem it as like you're falling back, Like That's how 333 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: it always has felt to me, is like, oh my god, 334 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: I was just getting up to where I was like 335 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: climbing upwards on the mountain, and then it was like, damn, 336 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: you know, you just slam down and like everything falls apart, 337 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: you lose everything kind of thing, and it's like no, no, no, no, no. 338 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 4: It's just a redirection. 339 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: Like it's terrible in the time, and it does involve 340 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: a lot of loss sometimes, but like even the downward 341 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: slope of it, you're always going to go back up 342 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: if you work at it or try Yeah, if you 343 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: use it for that. And so the concept of like 344 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: failing forward and just learning how to take the failure 345 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 2: like Oprah did, using it to evolve or just like pivot. 346 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: The five o'clock. 347 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: News is not going to be my thing, but like 348 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 2: she found her alignment in daytime TV and now she's 349 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 2: fucking Obrah Winfrey. It's like, right, no one would know 350 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 2: who she was if she stayed in the Chicago News network, 351 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: do you. 352 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: Know what I mean? 353 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: Right? Or went and got a job doing something else, 354 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 3: like working at the newspaper, because like let. 355 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: That take TV. 356 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's funny because in our business I 357 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 3: heard a lot like that guy hasn't done shit. All 358 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: he's done is fall up, and let's fall up. Mean, 359 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 3: it's like there's someone that's like the CEO of a 360 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: company and there's like you can't point to any success, 361 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 3: which is interesting, Like I hadn't thought of it before 362 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: until you were just talking about failing forward. Yeah, the 363 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: people that fall up generally are willing to fail publicly, 364 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: so when we look at their careers, all we see 365 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 3: are the failures. But the resilience that takes to get 366 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: back on the horse and keep fighting to a position 367 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: that you feel like you belong in is not for everybody. Like, Sadly, 368 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 3: I just don't think, you know, we're all as evolved 369 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: as everyone else. You know, some people are just aren't. 370 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 3: They don't have the composition to keep fighting, like they 371 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 3: give up. Yeah, And I don't know, does that is 372 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: that that like something that could fuel drug addiction because 373 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 3: you can't connect with yourself, or alcoholism or whatever it is. 374 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 3: If success were a linear straight line, we would all 375 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 3: be successful. We wouldn't even be having this conversation. We 376 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 3: all be rich and happy. 377 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: But didn't you think as a kid it was supposed 378 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: to be. 379 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 3: And don't look to go to college and then you're successful. 380 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: I still look at other adults who are successful and 381 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: I'm like, I just like look at their story and 382 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 2: I forget about anything that I would know of like 383 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: there's people in our friend group even who I forget 384 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: about the quote unquote failings, But with mine, I'm like, oh, 385 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 2: and you think they're. 386 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 3: On display and everyone's talking about them. But the truth 387 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 3: is nobody has time to worry about your failures. Fuck. 388 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 3: And that's not to say you should not give a 389 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 3: fuck about your failures, because you should because they're stars 390 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 3: that you're carrying from the battlefield. True, and they should 391 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 3: be they should be what you use to fuel yourself 392 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 3: into success. I mean, I think about it all the time. 393 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 3: When I'm driving through Nashville, I'm like, who the fuck 394 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 3: are all these people that own these multimillion dollar homes? 395 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 3: Where do they work? Who are they and how do 396 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: they do it right? Because I feel like I work 397 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 3: my ass off and I've got a nice house, But 398 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that I don't have envy and curiosity 399 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 3: to like, what am I not doing that's gonna get 400 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: me there? And you know, some people just inherited their grandparents' house. 401 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: You know, it's that simple, Like they were lucky, they 402 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 3: were born in the right family. Some people worked really 403 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 3: hard and had a lot of failures, and the reason 404 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: why you can probably hear. I'm kind of excited about 405 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: this topic because I do think I need to embrace 406 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: my failures more. I have to be willing to fail 407 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: more rather than not take the risks that it takes 408 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: to succeed, because I'm worried about failing, because there is 409 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 3: one certainty in that if you don't fucking try, you 410 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: never willin Well. 411 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 2: You know what they say about your deathbed, right, it's 412 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: not the things that you've failed. I'm doing air quotes 413 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: right now, you guys, but like, it's not the things 414 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: that you failed at that you regret, It is the 415 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 2: things you didn't try, right. I think it's just we're 416 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: all so worried about what everyone thinks about us. 417 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 3: Too one percent. And even though we're in the celebrities, 418 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 3: and when I say we, I mean we as a 419 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 3: collective human race. Because our lives are now public because 420 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: of social media. I do think that makes it worse. 421 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 4: Oh for sure, But are our lives really public? 422 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? 423 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: Over it all, I'm just like, let's stop pretending like 424 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: anything on social media is actually the full story. 425 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 3: Unless like posting the worst photos of ourselves. 426 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: I always post with no makeup one and stuff, in 427 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: stories because I'm like I need to normalize myself, Like 428 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to be just in the pretty picture 429 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 2: all the time, Like all of it's just so unattainable 430 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 2: if we only show those pieces or just be honest about, hey, 431 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 2: I'm only showing those pieces, like I'm not trying to 432 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: show you guys the days that I'm crying and like 433 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: having a hard time or truthfully, like for me, most 434 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 2: of the time, the struggle for me with social. 435 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: Media is like it's fear. 436 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: It's fear of being out there again, like what you're saying, 437 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 2: and it's like, wait, actually, I need to look at 438 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 2: everything that's happened in the last decade or a couple 439 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: years or whatever you want to say, and go, I've 440 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: just been in a lot of like gross, there's been 441 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: a lot of like lessons. There's been a lot of transitions, 442 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 2: and it's been painful some of it, but none of 443 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 2: it has been not for my highest good ultimately. So 444 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: I'm about to adopt this Oprah mentality and go, Okay, 445 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 2: well it didn't work, you know, in this situation, but 446 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: like it actually did bring me closer to myself and 447 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: understanding who I am versus like maybe who I thought 448 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: I needed to be or was trying to be, or whatever. 449 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: Like adopting those things as lessons to just get you 450 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: on the right past it, then you can. 451 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 3: Just yeah, I mean that acknowledgment of what failure brought 452 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: you versus what it kept from you actually frees you 453 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 3: to go get the thing that is attainable. 454 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: Exactly Why do we never think of that though? 455 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 3: I don't know, because shame is heavy. It's a really 456 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 3: heavy thing. And yeah, you know, it all then comes 457 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 3: down to our soul intentions. 458 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: Maybe like who is this little man right now? I 459 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: am so in love with you right now? 460 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 3: Maybe what you were striving for wasn't realistic anyway, and 461 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 3: you were doing it because you thought that other people 462 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 3: expected you to have it. 463 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 2: I just don't think I was as connected to who 464 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: I am as a human as I feel now. But 465 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: I've had to go through some of those losses. I 466 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 2: don't know if you feel like this at all, but like, 467 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: some of those losses are the things that made me go. 468 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: Wait, I don't even like that. I don't even think 469 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: that way. 470 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 2: I don't even you know, It's like we just kind 471 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: of get going in the machine and you're just like, oh, 472 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: success will be over here. Oh you're being offered to 473 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: be on a TV show. Yeah, you better fucking do that. 474 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 2: It's TV, Like, it'll help your other business. That is 475 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 2: what we look at instead of going wait, like truly 476 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: sitting with things and like, when I really ask myself, 477 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 2: would I not do things the same exact way if 478 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 2: it was offered to me again at that time, I 479 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 2: would have that's not really a failure. It's like you 480 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: try something, Eh, it wasn't really the right thing. 481 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 3: Wait, and it was, you know, it was fun while 482 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 3: it lasted, and some of it. 483 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. 484 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 3: I think back to even my coming out and it's 485 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: like the struggle between admitting to myself that I was 486 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 3: gay and actually finally coming out to my family and friends. 487 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: The fear that you live in because you think your 488 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 3: life is going to be over in that moment, because 489 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 3: the expectations that you're letting affect you from the. 490 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: External, like everyone's just gonna abandon everyone's your family's. 491 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 3: Gonna hate you, You're gonna be abandoned, You're gonna get 492 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 3: big up like no one's gonna love you, blah, all 493 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: the things. Yeah, but in reality, what it did was 494 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 3: it was the start of my life, like I got 495 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: to be me and I'm still evolving in my sexuality 496 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 3: because I still carry some of that shame, of course 497 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 3: that I put on myself. 498 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. 499 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: Yes, there are external factors because we're all fed the hate, 500 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: but I'm the only one who chose to believe it, 501 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like for me, so I 502 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 3: look back and I'm like, every time I meet a 503 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: new person and I have to come out again to them, 504 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 3: it is so freeing. But there are times when it 505 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 3: feels like inappropriate. But like I would like say, oh, 506 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: my ex boyfriend just casually, I would say that now 507 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: and ten years ago I would have never said that 508 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 3: right to a new person. Yeah, And it's really freeing 509 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 3: to be able to be that because it's like they're 510 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: getting the most authentic version of me. Yeah, and that 511 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 3: at one point felt like it was going to be 512 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: a huge failure. 513 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: That makes so much sense. 514 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 2: It's actually also clicking for me the thing about what 515 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: you were tying together earlier, the fear of failure, but 516 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: also that being tied to the fear of success. It 517 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 2: just kind of hit me as I was listening to you. 518 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: In terms of my story, I guess but like I 519 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: do think that the last couple of years, I have 520 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: been so scared and like you said, feeling like everyone's 521 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: talking about it. Everyone see it, saw the failure. Everyone's 522 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: going to leave me, abandon me. Like what you're saying 523 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: that I just haven't wanted to go out there, but 524 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: you know what that's been doing is keeping me from success, 525 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: right like it, so it becomes almost this fear of 526 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: success because success equals exposure or something. 527 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 3: Right, And you're like, if I get unknown, if yeah, 528 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 3: I feel like you've achieved success, which you have. 529 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: I know it's ridiculous that we do this to ourselves, 530 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 2: but yes, but it is true. It's like, if you 531 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: have quote unquote success, it does make you more out there, 532 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 2: and so then what if it fails again? Then what 533 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 2: what does that mean? 534 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 3: Well, the more people that know you, the more exposure 535 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 3: you have, the more people want to see you fail, 536 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: the more people won't like you. I'm not saying like 537 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 3: people who already liked you. It's just opening up the 538 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 3: population of who is even aware of you, right. You 539 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 3: know you can look at the Rolling Stones, one of 540 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: the biggest rock bands in the world, and I could 541 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: throw a rock and hit people that say I fucking 542 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 3: hate that band. I wish they'd die. You know, like, yeah, 543 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: they're nothing compared to the Beatles, and you know, there 544 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 3: are one of the most successful fucking bands of the 545 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: whole time, and you just you can't listen to that. 546 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 3: I saw a quote the other day that says, if 547 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: you wouldn't ask them for advice, don't listen to their criticism. 548 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 4: It's so true. 549 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 3: Boom, there you go. 550 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: Well, I was thinking about when I was prepping for 551 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 2: this podcast. I'm like, so much of the fear of 552 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 2: failure I think comes from the keyboard warriors or whatever 553 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 2: you want to call them, that are trolling you from 554 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: their fucking basement on their couch, right, and. 555 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 3: It's like just about failures. 556 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 4: Yes, it's like the Theodore Roosevelt quote about if you're. 557 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 2: Not in the arena, actually out there fighting doing the thing. 558 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: I mean, Brene Brown talks about this too. It's like, 559 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: unless you're in the arena, do not weigh in on 560 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 2: what I'm out here trying to do, right, And that 561 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: is the quote that I really kind of want to 562 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 2: leave this on and like really try to think about 563 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: moving forward and just ask ourselves these questions like Chip 564 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: and I are just sitting here. We're never coming to 565 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: you guys as these quote unquote experts. We're just sitting 566 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 2: here asking these questions like, wait, why, as a society 567 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: are we only focusing on these massive successes without looking 568 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: at the whole road and the whole journey, so that we, 569 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: as humans growing and evolving together cannot feel so much 570 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 2: shame about our you know, little setbacks or redirections or 571 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: things like that, like actually being honest with each other 572 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 2: about what the human experience is and what the human 573 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 2: journey looks like and what the purpose says. 574 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: You can't take it. 575 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 2: With you, so is the purpose really Like I'm sure, yes, 576 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 2: it's great to have millions of dollars, but like, probably 577 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 2: not what your soul only intended to do in this lifetime. 578 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: Right, I would venture to say it's much more valuable 579 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 3: to be proud and happy with yourself. Yeah, And you 580 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: can be broke and poor and still have those feelings 581 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 3: for yourself even for trying. I mean, it's shit. The 582 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 3: road is paved with failure, you know, Like, and a 583 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 3: lot of people reach massive success and then hit a 584 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 3: roadblock and they fail again. And whether or not they 585 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: reachieve success is whatever. But this has been a really 586 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: freeing conversation for me because it's a nice reminder, like too, 587 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 3: I drown in my fear of failure. I really do. Yeah, 588 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 3: I could write a book on my successes if I 589 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 3: wanted to. You know, if you don't even think about that. Yeah, 590 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: it's funny because I'll be hanging with friends stone or whatever, 591 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: and like I'll tell a random story and the people 592 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: are like, what is your life? Like? How did that happen? 593 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 3: How did you do that? And I'm like I had 594 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: forgotten about it until you said that and made me 595 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: remember something. Yeah, it's wild. 596 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: I'm curious what you guys have, Like, if you have 597 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: any failure stories that have really helped you to figure 598 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: out what your next direction is or what your success 599 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: story what you want it to look like, email us 600 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: at the Edge at velvetedge dot com. You can also 601 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: leave us a voicemail. We haven't been really plugging the 602 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: voicemail as much, so we need to get the voicemail 603 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: back in action. But if you have a voicemail, I 604 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: would love to hear your failure stories that ended up 605 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: becoming successes because they changed you are or helped you 606 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: get on the right path. That is in the link 607 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: in my bio on Instagram. At Velvet's Edge Chip. 608 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 3: I'm at Chip doors. It's Chip dr scch. 609 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: And as you guys go into the weekend and you're 610 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: living on the edge, I was going to try to 611 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 2: get cute, but it don't have it in me. 612 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: I hope you always remembered. 613 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: Too, not fail act casual. Bye bye mm hmm.