1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Chuck Bryant. He's given 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: a little salute. I did. That was good stuff you 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: should know. Army Sir, supporting for duty. I need a 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: beard and a cigar. Yes, yeah, Chuck. How you doing 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: wet like castro? Okay? Thanks? You know me way too well. Yes, 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm doing great, Josh you I'm great, Chuck on the show. 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: What's your witty set up here? I don't have a 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: wity setup. It's more of a depressing setup. All right, 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: it's here. Um. Obama finally conceded that the energy bill 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: that Congress is going to pass under his first year 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: or so of the administration is not going to have 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: a cap and trade segment to it. No. No, it 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: was going to the House passed at some thing with it. Uh. 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: The Senate's like, no, we're not going to. We just 18 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: don't want to. We're not going to. It's not that 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with it, but we're the Senate, so 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: nothing's ever going to escape. This is like the black 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: hole of legislation. Nothing can escape it, you know. Um, 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: So cap and trade is dead and that's um really sad, 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: as we'll see, because it can be beneficial, at least 24 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: in theory. Um. And as a result, all of these 25 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: voluntary initiatives, because it was going to be a mandatory 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: cap and trade um set up for the United States, 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of voluntary stuff. Specifically out West, there was 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: a regional cap and trade scheme that was going on 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: or about to go on, and the whole thing was 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: proposed and underwritten by Arizona because its greatest champion. And 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: now that the Senate is like, no, we're not passing this, 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: Arizona is like, by the way, we don't really want 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: to do this voluntary falling apart. Um, there's a bunch 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: of them falling apart. It looks like the only one 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: that's knew that hasn't been set up yet it's still 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: going forward as California. Well, of course, yeah, wow, that's disappointing. 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: It is. And do you think we should let everybody 38 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: in on what cap and trade scheme means? Yes, Josh, 39 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about carbon and it's basically a way to 40 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: regulate carbon emissions through a market based much like you 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: know any market basing like the stock market, except it's 42 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: limiting carbon emissions. So what you do is you set 43 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: a cap. That's the cap part, which is the limit 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: of emissions you're allowed to admit as as a factory, 45 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: let's say. And then the trade part comes in because 46 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: you can if you don't use all of your emissions credits, 47 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: let's say, you can bank them or you can trade 48 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: them and sell them with your with your factory buddies. Right, 49 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: there's a good way to say. That's exactly. It's perfect. 50 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Thank you, Chuck, Brian, everybody. So, um, 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: there's a regional UM cap and trade scheme up in 52 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: the Northeast that's been fairly successful so far. No huh, 53 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: the northeastern states, like in New England, among I think 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: electrical utilities, and it's voluntary UM and basically what so 55 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: you have a body that's governing this and then they say, 56 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: like they said, a cap, like you said, and let's 57 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: just pull the number out of there. They can. All 58 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: of the people who are members of this, all the 59 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: electrical companies there are members of this combined are allowed 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: to admit a hundred million metric tons of carbon dioxide 61 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: next to you, and you're just making up that number, right, 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: pulling it out of there. And then you you create 63 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: these credits, right um, that are slices of that trenches. 64 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: So let's say each trench is UM one. That means 65 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: there's one million credits out there available for everybody. And 66 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: let's say they're distributed evenly, maybe at first, but then 67 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: Factory A puts out and there's ten factories, so each 68 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: one can put out ten million metric tons of c 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: O two next year. Okay uh. And then Factory A says, okay, 70 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: we're accidentally putting out eleven million. Factory B, we noticed 71 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: that you're on track to put out eight million. That 72 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: means you have two extra credits. Can we buy one 73 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: of those from you? Boom done? So these things now 74 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: have a value money value, right uh. And there is 75 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: a penalty for going over, which should be more than 76 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: the credit is right right, otherwise there would be no 77 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: incentive right to stay under right, Yes, very well said so, yes, 78 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: So that is a cap and trade scheme and they 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: are in existence, right, and scheme just sounds negative because 80 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: scheme just sound they should change. The name has a 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: negative connotation. It definitely does, and I can't help help it. 82 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: Think that there are people out there like, oh, I 83 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: don't want to cap and trade scheme. I don't really 84 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: know about it. So that's just the word for it. 85 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: Though it's not bad. There's actually a scheme in Europe 86 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: that's fairly vital, heavily criticized, but still also it's the 87 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: first mandatory one, I think in the world. Then it 88 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: was born out of the Kyoto Treaty, right, Yes, the 89 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: e t S, the European Trading Scheme is uh, like 90 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: you said, born out of the Kyoto Protocol, which does 91 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: not tell people, uh, tell participating countries how to participate. 92 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: They just have to meet the standards. So Europe, the 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: EU came up with the the e t S and 94 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: it includes twelve thousand factories and utilities in twenty five 95 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: different countries and each member state, I thought this odd 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: sets his own emissions cap based on the Kyoto Protocol, 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: which we are not a member of. No, we're not. 98 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, it's the Kyoto Protocol. This is the first 99 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: time I've heard of this thing. That's not true? You okay, yeah, 100 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: but well although we helped draw it up right Clinton 101 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: the Clinton administration and did yes, and then it was 102 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: scuttled when it came before it came into effect in 103 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: two thousand five by the Bush administration, right because of 104 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: fears that it would aid that it wasn't properly put 105 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: together to begin with, and be that um financial the 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: financial impact might harm America's economy well. Plus also it 107 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: was divided divided countries by Annex one and Annex two 108 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: and next one being industrialized nations and Annex two being 109 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: um developing economies. The problem is is two of the 110 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: world's biggest developing economies, India and China, are also two 111 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: of the world's biggest polluters as far as CEO two 112 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: emissions goes. And that was one of the problems that 113 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: the United States had with the Kyoto Treaties, that it 114 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: didn't put heavy enough sanctions on developing countries because they 115 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: they're not required to meet the same standards. And that 116 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: makes sense. It does make sense um and there's a 117 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: certain amount of Hey, we already screwed up the world, 118 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: but we learned from it. So now you can't build 119 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: your economy by screwing up the world. Because we've already 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: learned the lesson the hard way, even though we wouldn't 121 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: be in this mess if we hadn't already screwed up 122 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: the world. But you can't do the same thing we did. 123 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: So there's a certain amount of that, But at the 124 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: same time, there's also a certain amount of Okay, we 125 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: need to remain competitive in the global marketplace. And one 126 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: of the things, well, the whole point of carbon tax 127 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: is to make it harder to emit or to make 128 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: economic sanctions on emissions. So that means that there's an 129 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: extra cost that American companies have to bear that companies 130 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: in operating in China or India don't have to write. 131 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: That's not a carbon tax, though that's different than carbon trading, right, 132 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: it's no carbon taxes just straight up, you put X 133 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: number of emissions out, you pay X number of dollars 134 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: on those emissions. So there's an incentive to reduce your 135 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: emissions because you're paying a lower tax. But both of 136 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: them are de facto taxes on pollution. So we were 137 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: talking about the e t S, sorry, the European trading. Yeah, yeah, 138 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: this is that you're saying that it was controversial and 139 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: one of the reasons. It's controversial because they, um, you 140 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: can the government can allocate kind of it will It 141 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: seems like so preferred industries maybe might get some free 142 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: credits if they're inching up towards their limit, their cap limit, 143 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: And basically they call it a permit to pollut and 144 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: it exempts those industries as favorite industries are the ones 145 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: that have the best lobbyists. So that's no good. No, 146 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: Like everything, it gets tainted, right. And it's also, um, 147 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: there is a market over there. You can buy carbon 148 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: credits from the e t S just as a speculator. Um. 149 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: But it's mandatory, which takes a certain amount of market 150 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: um fluctuations or market base out of the whole thing, 151 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: the whole equation, right, the mandatory participation. Yeah, right, right, 152 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: So if you have a voluntary participation trading scheme cap 153 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: and trade scheme, UM, you would think that, based on 154 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: Adam Smith's theories, this thing would be flawless. Right. Where 155 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: would you find such a thing in the United States? Yes, 156 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: you would, Yes, since we're not a member of the 157 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Kyoto Protocol, almost called it the Pyoto Protocol. I think 158 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: that's what you should call it. Um. That is uh, 159 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: that's what we have here now, so we have We 160 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: didn't participate officially, but I think a hundred and thirty 161 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: mayors across the country implemented their own programs in their 162 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: city that met the similar standards as the Kyoto, which 163 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: is as heartwarming as moose playing in a sprinkler. Yesedently. Yeah, 164 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: So that's good though, because we're we're getting with the 165 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: program anyway. And you you wrote about the Chicago Climate Exchange, 166 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah, so tell me about that one. 167 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: So there's a guy named Dr Richard Sandor and uh, 168 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: I believe he's an economist. He's out of Chicago. I 169 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: know that munch um. And in two thousand and five 170 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: he founded something called the Chicago Carbon Climate Exchange, the 171 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: c X r UM, and it functions exactly like a 172 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: stock market does. Actually that's not true. It functions more 173 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: like a commodities market does, so like pork belly futures 174 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: or oil or gold or something. But what they trade 175 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: on the Chicago Climate Exchange are carbon credits. Yes, but 176 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: it's still legally it's voluntary, but it's still legally binding. 177 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: Right when you sign up as a company on cc X. 178 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: What you're saying is I agree to reduce my carbon 179 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: emissions by x amount um, and if I don't, there's 180 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: an actually huge penalty for it. It's five grand per 181 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: metric ton. Yeah. Yeah, it does real quick, and it 182 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: is legally binding. So the cc X can levy these 183 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: really stiff penalties for people who don't meet their quotas. 184 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: Now on the c c X what they trade our 185 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: carbon credits, So on any given day they're like maybe 186 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: three four bucks. I don't know what they're up to 187 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: these days. I know the ones in Europe, since it's mandatory, 188 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: they're usually about ten times higher ten times higher in 189 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: value than the ones in Chicago. Um, but let's say 190 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: four bucks for a hundred metric tons of c O 191 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: two emissions. Right. So, just like what we were talking 192 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: about before, a company who is going to emit more 193 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: can buy these credits so that they don't have to 194 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: pay these stiff fines, but they have to buy credits 195 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: safe from somebody who another company who is coming in under. 196 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: So the other companies provided a financial incentive for lowering 197 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: their emissions in the form of these credits, right Uh, 198 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: And then the company who's going over is being penalized 199 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: in the form of these credits, right. You can also 200 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: earn more credits, not necessarily just by buying some from 201 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: somebody else, but by UM funding projects that actually reduce 202 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: carbon right yes, as long as they're verified. Yes, And 203 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: you can actually do that in the e t s 204 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: as well. You can earn credits through to UM Kyoto mechanisms, 205 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: the clean Development mechanism that allows you to help out 206 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: poor Annex two countries that can't afford their own to 207 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: reduce their own carbon output. And then joint implementation is 208 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: when you can partner with other Annex one countries, which 209 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: I guess that's a good thing too. Well. Yeah, either way, 210 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: as long as you're reducing c O two. That's one 211 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: of the one of the very UM distinct aspects of 212 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: reducing greenhouse gases and c O two is that no 213 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: matter where you do it, you're affecting everything. Yeah, So 214 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: planning trees and like say Sudan or something well ultimately 215 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: have an effect for the rest of the planet. Right. Yeah. 216 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: A lot of companies offer that now, UM it's part 217 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: of like a Now certain airlines and UM airline websites 218 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: will offer like an extra if you want to pay 219 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: an extra ten dollars on your ticket, they'll plant ten 220 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: trees for you in some other country. Right, So that's 221 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: kind of nice in a way. It is nice. So 222 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: you're ready to talk about that. Yeah, First, let me 223 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: let me correct myself. The cc X was founded in 224 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: two thousand three, not two thousand five. Yeah, and you know, 225 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: let me go ahead throw out a stat since we're 226 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: still on c c X. They traded about four years 227 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: ago a total of ten point two million tons of 228 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: c O two and then and Chuck also, the the 229 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: value UM went from like next to nothing a couple 230 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: of years ago to I think as much as a 231 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars carbon offsets. The carbon market itself, I 232 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: think generated about thirty billion dollars in two thousand seven. 233 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: And what we're talking about is something that doesn't exist. 234 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: It's a reduction. They represent a reduction in CEO two. 235 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: It's sort of hard to wrap your head around it. It 236 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: It definitely is um and it actually it can work. Yes, right, Um, 237 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: there's a model that's very similar. Do you remember, Chuck, 238 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: when we were younger, acid rain, whatever happened acid rain? 239 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: I know the fears of school children everywhere to go 240 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: outside and our skin would like melt in the rain. 241 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: It was the Communists, AIDS, and acid rain. Yeah, the 242 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: big three. We have a really rough childhood, didn't we. Yeah? Um, 243 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: But acid rain you never hear about anymore. And the 244 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: reason why is because the US government actually instituted a 245 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: mandatory cap and trade scheme on UH methane emissions. Isn't 246 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: that what it was that caused acid rain? Uh? Sulfur dioxide? 247 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: That's right, so close. So the acid rain program, Josh, yes, 248 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: limits sulfur dioxide that powers plants here in the States, 249 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: and it has worked to the tune of emissions have 250 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: dropped below what they were in nineteen Not bad, No, 251 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: not at all. And they did it slightly differently. They 252 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: put a um, they put a cap on, they divided 253 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: it amongst um emitters of sulfur dioxide. To think, are 254 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: again electrical plants or power plants are the worst emitters 255 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: for it UM? And they said, here, your allowances don't 256 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: go over and if you do, you're in big trouble. 257 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: And they each year they revised the cap lower, lower, 258 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: or maybe every couple of years. And that's the whole point. 259 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: I don't think we talked about that. The point of 260 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: a cap and trade scheme is that you don't just 261 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: put the cap somewhere and leave it there. Yeah, it 262 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: should go down. It should eventually go down with a 263 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: moderate pace, because you don't want to go too far 264 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: down or else the economy is going to be crippled. 265 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: You don't want to be too high up or else 266 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: there's not gonna be any point to it. But you 267 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: do want to raise it systematically, which is actually lowering 268 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: lowering it systematically over time. So, Chuck, have you noticed 269 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: that the carbon credits were talking about sound an awful 270 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: lot like something else called carbon offsets. I said that 271 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: you and I can go on to the Chicago Climate 272 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: Exchange and buy carbon, right, a hundred metric tons of 273 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: carbon if we want, for like four bucks I think 274 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: a pop? Okay Um. You can also find a broker 275 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: and say I want to buy a carbon offset, and 276 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: what do you give for that? Chuck, Well, these are 277 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: pretty popular now what you get when you buy a 278 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: carbon offset. Let's say al Gore made the headlines a 279 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: few years ago, Mr Green al Gore, who I love 280 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: and you do as well? Uh? Was he was under 281 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: fire because of the amount of energy his large house 282 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: in Tennessee consumed, which was a lot. Yeah. Right after 283 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: Inconvenient Truth came out, Drudge Report broke like his bill 284 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: or something like. Right, so they kind of held a 285 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: speed to the fire and he said, no, I've purchased Wait, 286 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: that was my Clinton. Good enough, he purchases car. Can 287 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: you do a gore? Because it's so I do want 288 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: to hear I purchase carbon offsets. That was actually really good, Chuck. 289 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: So carbon offsets. Let's say you could go through a 290 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: company like Terra Pass, who will talk about in a 291 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: little more detail, and uh, he would buy basically um, 292 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: he would invest in renewable energy in other parts of 293 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 1: the world. So let's say if he's using uh, you know, 294 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: a hundred credits over what he should be using, He'll 295 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: buy a hundred credits worth of of renewable wind energy 296 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: in um in Africa, because like make up for what 297 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: he's using. If you alleviate CEO two emissions anywhere in 298 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: the world, that has just as good of an effect 299 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: at home. Sure, So making him carbon neutral, I believe 300 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: is that is the word they like to use, right, right, So, 301 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: like if he calculates that his electricity that he uses 302 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: annually at his house equals fifty metric tons of CEO 303 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: two emissions. He will purchase that. He can go buy that, right. 304 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: So what you do is you go to a broker 305 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: who sells carbon offsets and cut and they sell them, right. 306 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: They sell them for let's say nine bucks a metric ton, right, Okay, 307 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: and I think that's about right. Actually. Um, So you say, okay, 308 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: well that's great because I only need two hundred of 309 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: these for the year. Yeah, you gotta have some coin 310 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: in your pocket, a little extra spending money, sure, but 311 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 1: for bucks you can offset all of the CEO two 312 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: emissions that your family puts out for a year. It 313 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: sounds great, It does sound great, and you know what 314 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: it can be. We're not poop doing it. But there 315 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: is another side to the coin, Josh, there definitely is. 316 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: Um anything that sounds too good to be true, or 317 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: lets you sit back with your hand down the front 318 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: of your pants, drinking a beer and still somehow alleviating 319 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: global warming, you should be suspicious of, yes, and a 320 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: lot of people are because a lot of times what's 321 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: happening as is, and this is the way I read 322 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: this article was that it's not necessarily creating new initiatives. 323 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: A lot of these initiatives where the money is going 324 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: either we're already in place or we're going to be 325 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: in place anyway. So these these firms are making a 326 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: little extra cash, which they seem to appreciate. But the 327 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: firms who are undertaking these CEO two emission reduction programs, right, 328 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: they have said, and there's some quotes in the article, 329 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 1: they said, you know, I made sixteen grand last year, 330 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: and we're glad to get it, but we would have 331 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: been doing this anyway. Right. That was a farmer who 332 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: actually created or invested in um very high tech machinery 333 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: that used methane emissions from his cows manure to generate 334 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: electricity for his farm so he could save money. Well, 335 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: he's actually paid money through the through investment in this. 336 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: The problem is that this guy was going to do 337 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: it anyway. It is good that he's being rewarded for it, 338 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: but why aren't we seeking out projects that won't get 339 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: off the ground unless there's investment, because then it means 340 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: this farmer was going to do it anyway. And there's 341 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: another project that wasn't gonna happen unless it got this investment. 342 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: And it doesn't seem like there's a lot of active 343 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: seeking out of investments. These brokers struck me as somewhat 344 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: lazy and find stuff that's already there. Yes. And the 345 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: other little hinky thing is that there's not a lot 346 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: of transparency going on here. When you, um, when I 347 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: think it was this Business Week, Yeah, business Week got 348 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: in touch with some of these firms, and no one 349 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: will say the broker won't say how much of a 350 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: cut they're getting, They won't necessarily say who they're getting 351 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: in touch with. Two uh, to help alleviate the carbon reduction, 352 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: to help manage the carbon reduction. So there's there's not 353 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: very much transparency and that has set off a lot 354 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: of alarm bells with a lot of nonprofits. Yeah, and 355 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: it should um. There there's also the farmer Darryl Vader. 356 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Is this name? Um? Is it really Vader? D Vader Vander? Oh, 357 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: it's too good to be true. Um, just like a 358 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: carbon Darryl Vander who has his um poop powered electricity farm. Uh. 359 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: He said that the right, Thank you for that, because 360 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: I was about to start stammering. Um. The investment that 361 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: he's getting is two dollars out of the nine dollars 362 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: per less than two per ton. Yeah, Um, that that's 363 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: what he's getting from this firm. So you have terror Pass, right, 364 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: which is a broker, and then he was set up 365 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: with terror Pass through a middleman. So from the nine 366 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: dollars that a person is putting in too Terror Pass 367 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: for that one ton of carbon dioxide, only two dollars 368 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: of it is going to the actual program. And we're 369 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: not poop pooing Terra Pass here. I mean, there's a 370 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: San Francisco company that I believe a teacher at Wharton 371 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: started and and he bikes to work, so he's he 372 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: proposed to his students to come up with an idea 373 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: and they did and it's working. Uh, they're they've got 374 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: I think, what close to fifty customers, So I think 375 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: they're trying to do the right thing. But it would 376 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: be awesome if there were some new initiatives and not necessarily, Hey, 377 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: we'll give this farmer some dough for this thing he 378 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: was already doing to begin with. Right, But I mean, 379 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: you can make the point that they are rewarding this 380 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: guy for going above and beyond. Word gets out and 381 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: YadA YadA YadA. Right. Um, there's a did you know 382 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: that veils ski resort? Yeah, let's talk about that. Which 383 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: what's the company called, uh, it is called Veil Resorts. 384 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: Appropriately enough, they are a hundred percent wind power right. 385 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: Did you know that not one bit of their electricity 386 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: comes from wind. Yeah, so they're able to claim that 387 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: they're power by wind when in fact they have spent 388 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: a lot less money buying renewable energy certificates representing the 389 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: amount of wind generated that uh that they would require 390 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: to generate all their power. Right, So what the and 391 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: and their pr flak is a pretty wrecked and saying 392 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: we're in the resort business. We're not in the power 393 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: generation business. But the resorts actually did look into powering 394 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: themselves their entire resort with wind power. But they're like, whoa, 395 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money when we can buy these offsets. Right. 396 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: But there's a guy who actually, um does wind power 397 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: electrical generation. It's called FPL Energy, And he's quoted as saying, 398 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: um that voluntary renewable energy certificates like the ones that 399 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: the Veil Resorts company bought our pure corporate marketing and 400 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: image management, and that's it. And this guy is actually 401 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: the one who's on like the receiving end, and he's 402 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: like this isn't this is this is not right. It's 403 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: not it doesn't work. So when the boots on the 404 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: ground are telling you that everything is all screwed up, 405 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: that usually means something's really screwed up. And that again, 406 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: when you're sitting back just writing a money out of 407 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: your checkbook instead of actually doing something in your own backyard, 408 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: it's probably not having the same effect, even though on 409 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: paper it looks like it, right, Can I sell you 410 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: another quote? This is from on or Angel Colmus. She's 411 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: an outreach coordinator at Toughs Climate Initiative and it's an 412 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: advocacy group for for the environment, and she kind of 413 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: sums it up. Nature does not fall for accounting schemes, 414 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: So that kind of says it all. It's it allows 415 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: Hollywood hot shots to feel good about their life by 416 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: purchasing offsetting their you know, massive energy consuming lifestyles. And 417 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: it allows companies like Veil Resorts to say, you know, 418 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: we're powered all by wind when they're really not actually 419 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: powered by wind. So you know, I'm at odds because 420 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: I'm a green guy, and it's good that people are 421 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: doing things like this and not anything at all. But 422 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, new initiatives. Well plus um, that's 423 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: there's also a big debate about exactly who the owners 424 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: should be on for reducing emissions in emitters. Right, So, 425 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: Delta Airlines had a little program I don't know if 426 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: they still do where for five dollars and fifty cents 427 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: for domestic flights or eleven dollars for international flights, you 428 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: could contribute extra. You pay extra in your ticket and 429 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: Delta would planetree. The question is, is Delta is the 430 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: one that's actually polluting. Yes, you are, you're contributing, but 431 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: you're paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars for your ticket. 432 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: Why isn't Deltas putting out any of their money to 433 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: reduce their emissions or to find ways to reduce emissions, 434 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: or to fund projects that actually reduce emissions? Like it 435 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: keeps this the whole carbon offset thing that these companies 436 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: are actually using for their own public image, are actually 437 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: being paid for by the company's customers, right, itta bit 438 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: of a shell game. Although I did discover one place, 439 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: at least one place that you can buy a carbon 440 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: offset and it actually has an effect. I talked to 441 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: a guy once, Michael Short. Yeah, I got him right 442 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: here in my jacket UM, a guy named Michael Short 443 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: with a clean or campaign. They actually you can go 444 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: on to their website calculate what your car puts out 445 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: or you know how much you use in electricity as 446 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: far as CEO two emissions um and they'll give you 447 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: like X number of tons do you want to buy 448 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: an offset? And what they do actually is they take 449 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: your money to go buy carbon credits from like the 450 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: Chicago Climate Exchange, and they sit on them, they retire them, 451 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: they take them off the market, which drives the price 452 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: on the ones that are in the market because laws 453 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: applying demand scarcer something is, the more expensive it is. 454 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: So they're actually in the game like buying these these 455 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: carbon credits and taking them away from the actual emitters 456 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: so that they do it will eventually become more cost 457 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: effective for these people to take carbon reduction measures. And 458 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: you know what, it's all paper, So yeah, it's Vaporit's 459 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: what's so hard to understand about it, But not really 460 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: once you wrap your head around it. And I'm not 461 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: even an environmental guy. Just love that. Yeah, you are 462 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 1: you kidding me? No, not real, folks. Josh headed up 463 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: the recycling program here at work before he officially had 464 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: one and took the cans himself every week and allowed 465 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: the canned thing collector to be at his desk. And 466 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: you didn't pick any credit for that, so it's a 467 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: little late for that. Thank you, everybody. You left out 468 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: the part where I took the cans to a homeless 469 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: guy so he could take them in for money. Oh man, 470 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: that would have been like the ultimate cherry on top 471 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: that you really did that. Yeah, look at you. I 472 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: think I need to alleviate that the shame of being 473 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: so vain by buying some carbon offsets from the clean 474 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: air campaign. They should have like karma offsets just for 475 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: being like a bad person. You know, you could just 476 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: buy karma offsets. I could use some of those. We 477 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: should start selling them. Yeah, we should heavily invest ourselves 478 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: look for those in the future from chucking Josh. Until then, 479 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about carbon trading, type 480 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: those two words into the handy search bar how stuff 481 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: works dot com And uh, it's now time for listener mail, 482 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: So everybody grab your carpet square laid down, Josh, how 483 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: about a Keeva update first? Oh, that's an even better idea, 484 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: and you want to just break it down real quick. 485 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: For those who don't know, Keeva dot org is a 486 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: micro lending site where you can contribute to investors or entrepreneurs, 487 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: I should say, in developing countries and in the US. 488 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: UM And we have our own team, which you can 489 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: find at www. Dot kiva dot org slash team slash 490 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: stuff you should know, right, And we have a hell 491 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: of a team, Chuck, we do, dude. We had a 492 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: goal of a hundred thousand dollars loan and uh we 493 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: are currently over eight thousand dollars loan through only uh 494 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: close to eight hundred members on our team. That's fantastic, 495 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: which is awesome. But I do know that that is 496 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: a fraction of our audience. Oh yeah, So I put 497 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the call out to you folks who have said, oh man, 498 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: to keep mening to do Kiva. Just go to Kiva 499 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: and sign up. It's really fast and it's fun to 500 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: loan and um increments increments. My loans are recycling now actually, 501 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: so they're going to be due up to read loan soon, 502 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah, way to go, check, 503 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Way to go, Josh. That's up to you, right all right, 504 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: So now, listener, mail, it's time now for listening mail. Yes, Josh, 505 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this. Uh my family were witch burners, 506 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: just from Gwen in southern California. I'm so glad you 507 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: guys did the podcast on witchcraft. I've been interested in 508 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: witchcraft since i was a kid. In fact, it started 509 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: while researching my family history. I discovered a long line 510 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: of involvement with the craft. Our family is directly descended 511 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: from increase In Cotton Mather. And by the way, if 512 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: I ever have a son, I'm gonna name him Increase 513 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: Increase Bryant. Yeah, it's a great name. Or Goody Goody Bryant. Um, 514 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: that's a girl's name. Oh, Goody's short for good wife. Okay, 515 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: so I've had twins, I can name them Increase and 516 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: Goody if they were Um. They were both Puritan ministers 517 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: living in Boston in the seventeenth century. Cotton, who was 518 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: the son of Increase Or, wrote a great deal on 519 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: the subject of witchcraft. Uh spectral Activity. In Spectral Activity 520 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: even directly accused a number of individuals to be witches. 521 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: He was said to believe to be nearing He believed 522 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: we were nearing the last judgment and felt that he 523 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: himself led the way against the devil's legions, so we 524 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: all feel that way. Yeah, he was clearly wrong. Uh. 525 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: He was personal friends with a few of the judges 526 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: that presided over the Salem witch trials and urged them 527 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: to use confession as the greatest evidence. And I'm sure 528 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: the confession was probably wrung out beating he had beating 529 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: out of him. He and his father attended one of 530 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: the final executions at Salem, but Cotton never recanted his 531 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: position on witchcraft or his involvement with the trials, although 532 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: his father became more and more vocal with his doubts 533 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: of spectral activity. Well slightly because his own wife was 534 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: threatened and called the witch. This is her family, dude, 535 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: uht is that sinking in? It is? Cotton is pretty 536 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: famous and somewhat of a legend in the history of witchcraft. 537 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: When I was younger, I got to visit Salem and 538 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: they did re enactments of the trials. Some was cheesy, 539 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: some of it really cool. I later got got to 540 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: visit the grave of Cotton Matters at Cobb Hill, where 541 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: we spoke with and learned as ton from the grave keeper. 542 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: Strangely enough, on the other side of my mom's family. 543 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: The Alexander side, we had a female ancestor burned at 544 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: the steak, so she's really got it coming from both 545 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: directions here. Unfortunately we couldn't find out more about this 546 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: because the documents are locked up in Ireland. Hopefully someday 547 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: I can pick up this investigation. They got more history. 548 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: This all led me to study Wicca a lot when 549 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: I was younger, and you guys did a great job 550 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: laying it out. So that is Gwen. Um, Well, we 551 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: already said the last name Mathers, and she said, well, 552 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: she said they picked up an s in the last 553 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: hundred years. Weird. No, yeah, because it used to be 554 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: mother or mather. That means that the kid who played 555 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: Beaver and Leave It to Beaver is related. Then yeah, 556 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: Jerry Mathers, maybe he was a witch hunter. Excellent, So 557 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: firsthand account from Gwen in southern California. Thank you, Gwinn, 558 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: appreciate that um revelation about your family tree. Uh. If 559 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: you have a story about how the Irish are keeping 560 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: a strangle hold over information you wish to seek, put 561 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: in an email and send it to Stuff Podcast at 562 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: how Stuff works dot com for more on this and 563 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics is that how stuff works dot Com. 564 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: Want more house stuff Works, check out our blogs on 565 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: the house stuff works dot Com home page. Brought to 566 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 567 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: are you