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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Bed. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan, and our cult leader.

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Speaker 3: By the way, most importantly, you argue you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Fellow fans, friends, neighbors, conspiracy realist, enthusiast of all things

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Speaker 3: cult ish, Welcome back to our continuing fascination, which we

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Speaker 3: hope you share. Cults you have never heard of before

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Speaker 3: we begin just here at the top. I'd love to

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Speaker 3: ask you guys. I don't know if we discussed it previously,

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Speaker 3: but what's something that you all have personally experienced that

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Speaker 3: felt at some point, either in the present or in

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Speaker 3: retrospect cultish.

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Speaker 4: I've certainly mentioned this before.

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Speaker 5: I saw just briefly say that I was once friends

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Speaker 5: with a bunch of high faith people and that is

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Speaker 5: classified by some as a cult. But we're going to

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Speaker 5: get into what that actually means. And we've talked about

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Speaker 5: all this before. I thought they were lovely people. I

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Speaker 5: didn't participate in it in that way, and I found

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Speaker 5: it just to be a great way of getting together

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Speaker 5: with some nice folks. But I'll tell you what I

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Speaker 5: recently kind of associated that with is like big K

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Speaker 5: pop and jpop, like boy bands and like just like

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Speaker 5: the hand movements and all of that stuff.

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Speaker 4: It feels hellicultish to me.

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Speaker 3: Swifties as well. Totally what about you, met.

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Speaker 2: I can't think of anything outside of the United Methodist Church.

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Speaker 2: I lived in a commune, but it wasn't there wasn't

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Speaker 2: really religious undertones, Yeah, not really. Yeah, we did have

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Speaker 2: this saying that was all things in moderation. That was

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Speaker 2: the cult of moderation. Just anything and everything as long

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Speaker 2: as you're safe and careful and everybody's happy.

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Speaker 3: Reminds me of dead Press, all things of moderation, even moderation,

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Speaker 3: which I thought was clever. And as some of us

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Speaker 3: know from this or other shows, I once upon a

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Speaker 3: time got deep with some Mennonites in Central America, primarily

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Speaker 3: for their bakery. That's how they got me in.

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Speaker 5: There's a Mennonite community in my hometown in Augusta, Georgia,

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Speaker 5: and they had a lovely bakery with these little ham rolls.

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Speaker 4: Boy oh boy, delicious stuff.

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Speaker 3: So why are people calling all these outsider groups cults?

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Speaker 3: Will pause for a word from our sponsors and then

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Speaker 3: we'll get into it. Here are the facts, all right.

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Speaker 3: It's no secret that our show man, the United States

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Speaker 3: at large finds the concept of cults endlessly fascinating, and

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Speaker 3: we've done a lot of work in the past on this.

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Speaker 3: We've got videos How to Start a Cult is a banger.

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Speaker 3: You can find some cameos from our colleagues, Jonathan Strickland,

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Speaker 3: I want to say, also Tyler Klaying and the legendary

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Speaker 3: Chuck Bryant. Who else do you have in there?

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. I know we did a podcast version

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Speaker 2: of that episode that was in twenty fourteen about cults

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Speaker 2: you had never heard of way back then. We've been

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Speaker 2: talking about these organizations for a long time, and we.

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Speaker 3: Had a lot of fun with our series on companies

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Speaker 3: started by cults, using the word fun loosely there. But look,

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Speaker 3: we know this. The C word is usually not a

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Speaker 3: self describer. Critics are the ones outsiders, are the ones

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Speaker 3: who call a group a cult. The basic definition is

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Speaker 3: just that a group often but not always small, and

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Speaker 3: they're devoted to a person, an individual, or an idea

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Speaker 3: or a philosophy.

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Speaker 5: You guys, there's this really cool clothing line that they make,

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Speaker 5: like kind of like B movie horror movie shirts and stuff,

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Speaker 5: and it's called cult of Cults, and that I think

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Speaker 5: describes where we're coming from.

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Speaker 4: We're in the cult of cults.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, because it is interesting, because that's an excellent

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Speaker 3: milestone for us to measure how the definition expanded. Right

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Speaker 3: when previously recorded, we noted that historically this was an

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Speaker 3: insult applied to what you could call non compliant religious groups,

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Speaker 3: organizations that had some existed with some degree of opposition to,

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Speaker 3: or divergence from the dominant spiritual, socio religious practices of

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Speaker 3: any society.

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Speaker 5: Splinter groups, if you refer to the ones descending from

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Speaker 5: I guess they often can become antithetical to what they

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Speaker 5: came from, or become like almost a protest against that

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Speaker 5: in and of themselves.

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Speaker 3: We should do a we should do a special mini

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Speaker 3: series that would last for a decade if we published

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Speaker 3: once a week of all the people who woke up

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Speaker 3: and said, oh yeah, I read I read the Bible,

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Speaker 3: or I read you know, the Koran, and it turns

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Speaker 3: out I'm the prophet. This whole book is about me.

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Speaker 3: I've actually Jesus because I'm so humble. But yeah, also,

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Speaker 3: let me sleep with your wife.

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Speaker 2: Oh all the women can only sleep with me now, hahaa. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's it, God told me. That's That's a pretty common thing.

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Speaker 2: It's also very common for any new group, like any

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Speaker 2: new religion, if it's formed at any time, like basically,

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Speaker 2: what would you guys say from the twelve hundreds on,

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Speaker 2: any new religion is generally labeled as a cult.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the idea here of the real estate and

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Speaker 3: the context is super important. I think we lose that

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Speaker 3: often in modern evenings. A cult can partially be defined

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Speaker 3: by the society in which it functions. So just for

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Speaker 3: a cocktail napkin example, you know, let's say we start

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Speaker 3: a Buddhist monastery, and we start it in a part

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Speaker 3: of the world that is predominantly Buddhist, we're just another

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Speaker 3: monastery unless we get super weird with it. But if

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Speaker 3: we go to medieval Hungry and we start a monastery

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Speaker 3: there in Central Europe dedicated to Buddhism, then the non

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Speaker 3: Buddhist locals might look around and say, Okay, these guys

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Speaker 3: are a cult and maybe devil worshipers because I don't

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Speaker 3: see a cross.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. Just in that idea, you think

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Speaker 2: about the cult of Mithrusts that originated from you know,

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Speaker 2: ancient Roman times. But it's a group of people worshiping

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Speaker 2: somebody that isn't generally worshiped right, right, for some deity

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Speaker 2: that isn't the same as everybody.

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Speaker 3: Else, right, And if they tip the demographic scales and

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Speaker 3: Mithris becomes a more popular deity, then they're no longer

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Speaker 3: a cult. Now they're the law of the land. In

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Speaker 3: that time, I mean, for thousands of years, saying something

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Speaker 3: was a cult had none of the negative connotations it

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Speaker 3: has in the modern era. Were talking about Mythris. It

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Speaker 3: used to be kind of a flex in ancient Mediterranean societies.

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Speaker 3: To join a mystery cult are the skull and bones

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Speaker 3: of their day. The elite and the initiated are are

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Speaker 3: super secret agents. They definitely got up to socio political

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Speaker 3: conspiracies and snannigan's, but they were not seen as inherently

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Speaker 3: evil or dangerous. Side note, they were not seen in general,

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Speaker 3: which is why we still don't know a ton of

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Speaker 3: details about them or whether they continue in the modern.

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Speaker 2: Day, right, And the way we usually find out is

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Speaker 2: we find some hidden underground temple that was a basement

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Speaker 2: that somebody who had a lot of money or you know,

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Speaker 2: with the money from the group, turned into a temple.

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Speaker 4: You hear the word esoteric thrown around a lot when

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Speaker 4: it comes.

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Speaker 3: To the right of esoteric beliefs, meaning beliefs that are

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Speaker 3: not the commons.

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Speaker 4: Got weird.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, But then again, like that's even that as a

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Speaker 5: term that is relative, isn't it right?

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Speaker 4: Depends on which side of it you're on.

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Speaker 5: Esoteric can also be levied as a bit of a

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Speaker 5: thought terminating cliche.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And when we're using that term esoteric, it

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Speaker 2: is real, Like sometimes sometimes the beliefs are just strange.

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Speaker 2: We talked we haven't yet talked about this guy, August engelhawked.

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Speaker 4: We've done that, this dude who.

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Speaker 2: Was born in eighteen seventy five that ended up with

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Speaker 2: a lot of inheritance and had some ideas about coconuts,

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Speaker 2: specifically some ideas that coconuts, because they're shaped like a

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Speaker 2: human head, are the ideal food for humans, so we

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Speaker 2: must eat only coconuts, all coconuts. Coconuts are basically the

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Speaker 2: answer to everything. And he created a religion and used

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Speaker 2: his inheritance to buy part of an island where he

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Speaker 2: started a cult about coconuts and nudity.

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Speaker 5: I have to add this island did was home to

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Speaker 5: indigenous coconuts.

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Speaker 4: It have to be to be a selling.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, out there by the Solomon Islands between

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Speaker 2: the Solomon Islands and New Guinea.

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Speaker 3: And he northeast or northeast of Australia for any right

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Speaker 3: without a map, handing yes.

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Speaker 2: And he authored a book, you guys. The title is

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Speaker 2: a care Free Future, The New Gospel, Glimpse into the

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Speaker 2: depth and distance for the selection of mankind, for the

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Speaker 2: reflection of all, for consideration and stimulation.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, all other spherical produce you lost you were why

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Speaker 3: like ahead those hairy.

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Speaker 4: Orbs of mystery and wisdom.

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Speaker 3: Please do check out our upcoming episode of Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 3: which will be all about Angle Heart, starring a cameo

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Speaker 3: from our own Matt Frederick.

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Speaker 4: Can you be the star cameo?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: Like a little Wayne feature there He's the star and

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Speaker 3: the cameo of so many, so many tracks, though I

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Speaker 3: do not love the Carter six.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, we're really dogging on that bad boy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's tough to make art. So the as

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Speaker 3: time goes on, we see that cults begin to be

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Speaker 3: defined more by their series of tactics, kind of like

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Speaker 3: how fascism knows no concrete ideology, it's it's a toolkit

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Speaker 3: of tactics. And colts now are defined by the presence

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Speaker 3: of a charismatic leader, even if they don't say they're

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Speaker 3: the leader. Isolation from society. This is all from our

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Speaker 3: video controlled or curated access to informations, Pacific language and

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Speaker 3: jargon that's going to be familiar with a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who have worked in the military. Harsh rules about

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Speaker 3: what actions you can and cannot take, how you can

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Speaker 3: consume or be allowed to consume resources, and again tons

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Speaker 3: of rules around sex, usually favoring the leader.

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Speaker 5: Indeed, And I mean I think I like that that

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Speaker 5: has largely become what cult means. I think that's fair, right,

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Speaker 5: I think when we see someone being an opportunist and

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Speaker 5: some of these clear tactics are being used, I think

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Speaker 5: that's fair.

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Speaker 4: But I guess there's a gray area though.

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Speaker 5: Because there could be some splinter groups of religions that

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Speaker 5: outsiders might characterize in these ways. But maybe it's not

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Speaker 5: quite that, and it's used as a term of abuse,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's a pejorative. Yeah. Often in the modern day, especially

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Speaker 3: especially in the West and outside of academia. And there

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Speaker 3: are quite a few ven diagrams with let's say, what

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Speaker 3: authorities could describe as gangs might be described as cults,

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Speaker 3: depending again upon their tactics and their ideology. The world

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Speaker 3: has become the human world has become increasingly secular, and

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Speaker 3: in step with that, the definition of cult expanded to

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Speaker 3: include non religious groups that engage in cult like tactics. Again,

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Speaker 3: according to their critics, sometimes they don't even bother with

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Speaker 3: the spiritual window dressing. You see it in politics, right,

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Speaker 3: the political opponents always accuse the other side of being

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Speaker 3: cult like. Certain fandoms, as we mentioned, get called culty

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Speaker 3: or we're talking about that off air, especially in the

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Speaker 3: world of music. Shout out to the Swifties, as you

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Speaker 3: were saying earlier, Noel K pop jpop fans, the barbies

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Speaker 3: of Nicki Minaj, notoriety.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we certainly have talked about some of the inherent

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Speaker 5: cultiness of kpop and jpop as organizations, you know, And

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Speaker 5: that's true of course as well in boy bands and

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Speaker 5: Disney teen queens and stuff over here where we've got

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Speaker 5: some people that have taken serious falls from grace who

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Speaker 5: have been, you know, the decision makers of who kind

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Speaker 5: of gets elevated in those spheres. I'm trying to think

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Speaker 5: of the name. But there was the Nickelodeon guy, and

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Speaker 5: then there was a foot yep, that's right. And then

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Speaker 5: there was, of course definitely have been some very demented

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Speaker 5: and self serving managers. Not to mention the diddy stuff

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Speaker 5: that's going on right now, that's all cult like and

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Speaker 5: obviously very self serving.

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Speaker 3: That's a good point. That's a good point. There's also

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Speaker 3: this is something that might not be familiar to a

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Speaker 3: lot of us in the English speaking audience. There's a

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Speaker 3: really creepy I find a creepy school of dance in

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Speaker 3: Japan called Bhuto sense of links later, but it is

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Speaker 3: like super upsetting. It is TWI, it is Twilight Zone

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Speaker 3: as dance in theater, and followers of Bhutto teachers and

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Speaker 3: mentors have later said that they accidentally joined a cult.

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Speaker 3: There's also a great show that used to be on

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Speaker 3: our network. I can't remember if it is now, it's

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Speaker 3: called Was I In a Cult? In full disclosure, I

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Speaker 3: worked on that show with our pal Paul Decant. That

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Speaker 3: provides first hand accounts of people who grew up in

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Speaker 3: or were taken in by a cult, realized what was happening,

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Speaker 3: and most importantly, how they escaped. So we're going to

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Speaker 3: provide some resources at the end of tonight's episode if

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Speaker 3: you find yourself in that situation.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, guys, I just wanted to make one more

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Speaker 2: point based on something Noel was saying earlier about splitting

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Speaker 2: off those splinter groups really quickly. We're for another project.

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Speaker 2: We're looking pretty deeply into the Branch Davidians, and we,

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Speaker 2: you know, are just looking at how the version of

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Speaker 2: Branch Davidians that was, you know, turned into the thing

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Speaker 2: that David Koresh was running during the Waco Siege was

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Speaker 2: so different and a splinter from the Branch Davidian Seventh

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Speaker 2: Day Adventists and the Branch Davidians were a split from

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Speaker 2: the Seventh Day Adventists, and the Seventh Day Adventists were

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Speaker 2: split from the Laodissians. I think is how you say it.

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Speaker 2: So then it's just like crazy to see how each

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Speaker 2: time it made splits, there was you know, allegations of

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Speaker 2: cult from the tree from which it branched out, right,

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Speaker 2: And then as you got down you finally get to

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Speaker 2: a David Koresh that is, by all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 2: the very definition of a cult leader and a cult right.

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Speaker 3: And did so by seducing the previous leader, oh, the

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Speaker 3: wife of the previous leader, leading to yeah, yeah, well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then eventually saying everyone who is twelve or

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Speaker 2: older and a female is now my wife, and nobody

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Speaker 2: can have sex with anybody else.

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Speaker 3: Did you see that transcript where he's saying this Bible

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Speaker 3: verse means that women like big das, I'll send it

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the whole point there is that, just as we're saying,

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Speaker 2: as things branch away from that collective consciousness thing that

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Speaker 2: everybody decides is okay, it gets culty. And then as

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Speaker 2: that power increases with an individual at the head of

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Speaker 2: one of these new organizations, any organization, be it a gang,

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Speaker 2: be at any of these things, you can get to

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Speaker 2: this point where it's a cult.

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Speaker 3: And at every step there will be someone else saying

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Speaker 3: I am not a heretic, I am the truth speaker.

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Speaker 3: I know what the nature of reality is. That's a

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Speaker 3: lot of what it's about, and except my reality while

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Speaker 3: is shoeing and discarding your own.

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Speaker 5: But then of course you've got things like Zen, Buddhism

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Speaker 5: and various forms of meditation where it is, you know,

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Speaker 5: you could malignment in that way. But for a lot

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Speaker 5: of individuals that follow those, it's much more about self

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Speaker 5: actualization or you know, mindfulness and self improvement, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: But then you will of course have extreme cases of

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Speaker 5: those as well. People are following individuals and believing that

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Speaker 5: their reality, in this greater sense is the only true reality,

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Speaker 5: right as opposed to it being like a way of

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Speaker 5: helping oneself sort of achieve I don't know, positive habits

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Speaker 5: for example.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, And the difference there would be that it's

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Speaker 3: not asking you to necessarily evangelize to harm yourself or others.

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Speaker 3: I just find it preposterous and offensive for a think

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Speaker 3: like me, when someone tries to force their reality upon me.

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Speaker 3: It's presumptuous, it's weird, and it gets old so quickly.

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Speaker 3: But there is one thing I wanted to add before

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Speaker 3: we continued, was that the modern use of cult is

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Speaker 3: not all bad still. We all love a cult classic

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Speaker 3: filled shout out to Big Trouble a Little China, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, And.

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Speaker 5: That culture cult sprand that I was talking about, that's

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Speaker 5: a big part of what they put out. Like They've

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Speaker 5: got Evil Dead amazing design, Evil Dead shirts and you know,

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Speaker 5: Tetsuo the Iron Man Dead Alive and various.

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Speaker 4: Things like that. So check out cultive cults. We're not sponsored,

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Speaker 4: it's just cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: And what I wanted to say about Big Trouble in

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Speaker 3: Little China is that it's an extraordinarily complex film. There's

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Speaker 3: more to it. The protagonist is not who is presented

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Speaker 3: as the protagonist, layers within layers. That's what cults are

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Speaker 3: about too. But we talked about this previously too, and

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Speaker 3: this is important for our setup tonight. The revolution of

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Speaker 3: the information age created entirely new vectors of communication and

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Speaker 3: control for cults. Loose groups like QAnon check a lot

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Speaker 3: of the boxes for cult like organizations and tactics, but

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Speaker 3: they exist almost entirely online, and they still have real

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Speaker 3: world consequences. That guy didn't wake up and decide to

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Speaker 3: attack that pizza place he thought he was moving for

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Speaker 3: a greater purpose, and his mentor or the thing he

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Speaker 3: was a disciple of, was to his mind and named

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Speaker 3: q SO.

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Speaker 5: And you could even argue that certain military organizations are

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Speaker 5: cult like and that they require absolute adherence to a

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Speaker 5: set of guidelines and directives.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which is hopefully the constitution in theory.

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Speaker 5: But then we know that that that can go a

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Speaker 5: way out of whack, and in other countries it does

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Speaker 5: start to rob people of their own agency when you're

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Speaker 5: part of those groups, because you will act exclusively based

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Speaker 5: on the input from said leader.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out, Colonel Kurtz. And in times of desperation,

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Speaker 3: people go to alternatives that they would not have ordinarily

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Speaker 3: rationally considered.

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Speaker 2: We all start sabotaging everything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we should have a meeting about that that we

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Speaker 3: can give to the committee that schedules meetings. Right. Oh,

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Speaker 3: check out our simple sabotage episode. It was so fun

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Speaker 3: and evil and sith Lordie. We do know. Weirdly enough,

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Speaker 3: even though we are increasingly in a surveillance state, it

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Speaker 3: is more difficult to monitor these groups today. It's easier

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Speaker 3: for them to slip under the radar until they become

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Speaker 3: dangerous and their members commit criminal acts like this is

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Speaker 3: why we see these factors sort of commingling to create

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Speaker 3: more cult like organizations than ever before. And it's tough

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Speaker 3: if you're an authority, if you're law enforcement, because you

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Speaker 3: have to justify the amount of surveillance. We all have

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Speaker 3: to pretend that cointelpro stopped, right, because if you surveil

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Speaker 3: people intensely without cause, you are making a strong case

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Speaker 3: that you're persecuting them for their religion or for their

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Speaker 3: personal beliefs. And that's a big no no and democracy

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Speaker 3: for now. Shout out to Palanteer and Foundry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out. Also shout out to Benino Massarro, who's

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Speaker 2: going on a god tour right now. Just got the

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Speaker 2: little email blast from that group, guys, it's really exciting stuff.

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Speaker 2: Bentino Masorrow started with a single YouTube video where he's

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Speaker 2: clearly snickering to himself about the video he's making to

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Speaker 2: a giant organization.

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Speaker 5: And check out our episode on Masarrow which all is

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Speaker 5: he gonna be at in the Tri State area, bro.

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Speaker 2: He's doing a freedom talk in Berlin, a weekend immersive

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Speaker 2: in Amsterdam, hanging out in Croatia, then going somewhere for

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Speaker 2: a mystery immersion.

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Speaker 4: When is the Berlin one? Just out of curiosity?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, July twenty sixth.

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Speaker 4: Damn, I'll be there in September. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 4: I'm like.

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Speaker 3: To a little eastern Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, it makes me imagine what kind of surveillance

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Speaker 2: that dude's under. Like, right, people have to be watching him.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, But he hasn't. They don't like him for

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Speaker 3: the specific violent crimes just yet, the ones that really

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Speaker 3: trip the radar. But you are surveilled if you go international.

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Speaker 3: And when's the Netherlands one Netherlands?

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Speaker 2: Looking at his website August ninth and tenth.

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Speaker 3: No good, I'm going to dodge it, all right. So

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Speaker 3: what happens when these groups do go bad? What happens

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Speaker 3: when a cult that you've never heard of finally gains

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Speaker 3: the attention of law enforcement and the public. Let's pause

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Speaker 3: for a word from our sponsors, and then we'll find out.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. We've established this right there.

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Speaker 3: There are so many examples of cults the average person

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Speaker 3: hasn't heard of in the modern day, and I think

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Speaker 3: a lot of them do want to stay on the radar.

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Speaker 3: Could we agree with that, you know, it.

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Speaker 4: Was the grilled cheese sandwich one.

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Speaker 3: Yellow something. Yeah, yeah, it was fun yellow sub yellow Deli.

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Speaker 4: Yellow Deli, That's what it was. The yellow del have

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Speaker 4: to be what the hello Deli?

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Speaker 3: Very nice people, great sandwiches, seems so so people would say, uh,

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Speaker 3: we're being diplomatic here. Some people would say, well, a

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Speaker 3: lot of more conservative practitioners of Judaism will tell you

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Speaker 3: that the Hebrew Israelites are a cult and they run

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Speaker 3: sol vegetarian, which is likewise awesome.

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Speaker 4: For sure. I haven't been, but I've been meaning to

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Speaker 4: do that.

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Speaker 5: And I may have mentioned this before as well. In

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Speaker 5: my hometown and I think elsewhere in the country, there

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Speaker 5: is a group.

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Speaker 4: It's a church.

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Speaker 5: It's called the International House of Prayer for All People, and.

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Speaker 4: They have a leader who.

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Speaker 5: Sells his foot wash water and like as it's a thing,

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Speaker 5: like you want to wash the feet of the leader,

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Speaker 5: and they like that.

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Speaker 3: Sweeney Lady, It's very similar to me.

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Speaker 5: Right, that's a part of what is it much soap

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Speaker 5: ploy I forget this fella's name, but it is an individual.

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Speaker 5: And I went once in Augusta because they have a

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Speaker 5: really great soul food buffe that they do, it's like

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Speaker 5: cutting outreach and also generates income. So I mean it's

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Speaker 5: similar to the Yellow Deli situation, or perhaps we're so

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Speaker 5: soul vegetarian correctly.

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Speaker 3: What I like about soul Vegetarian is they have never

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Speaker 3: tried to convert me, other than maybe up selling some

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Speaker 3: potato wedges, which are worth it. That was a good decision.

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Speaker 3: I want to thank the server.

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Speaker 4: And they didn't either.

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Speaker 5: At the International House of Prayer is very much just

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Speaker 5: like delicious homemade, you know, banana pudding and meeting three

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Speaker 5: kind of situations. No one spoke to me of joining

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Speaker 5: the church, but definitely some interesting ideology and you know

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Speaker 5: backstory for that organization.

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Speaker 3: And we are not sponsored by these organizations, but will say,

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Speaker 3: if you think you don't like vegan food, try soul

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Speaker 3: Vegetarian next time you're in Atlanta. It's crazy because everything

435
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Speaker 3: we're saying here shows us that it is statistically certain

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Speaker 3: that the current world human world has hundreds, if not

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Speaker 3: thousands upon thousands of various organizations quietly going about with

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Speaker 3: cultish behavior. You may live in an area where everybody

439
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: knows there's a community a little on the outskirts of town.

440
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: They send some folks in right once a week, once

441
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: a month to get supplies or to sell some stuff,

442
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 3: and they are harmless. They have their own beliefs. They

443
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: may be odd. Why are all these people wearing turtlenecks

444
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: in summer or whatever?

445
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: El Kintara guy?

446
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 3: Who is this Elkintari guy? In many ways, there are

447
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: folks who got together, they agreed on some principles, they

448
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 3: made a community around those beliefs, and if they're not

449
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 3: hurting anyone, why would we bother persecuting them? Matt, do

450
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: you want to talk a little bit about El Katari.

451
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: El kantarare we remember this is from Happy Science? This

452
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: is oh gosh, what was his name? Rio who Ohkawa

453
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: the guy that started Happy Science? And El Kantari is God.

454
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: But it's a new version of all of the versions,

455
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: all of the versions of God that have been worshiped

456
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: over all the years. We remember this guy. We talked

457
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: about him one our episodes.

458
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: I think, yeah. The argument usually for these way of

459
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 3: the open hand, non confrontational cultic organizations, it's usually going

460
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 3: to be something like, hey, before us, everybody was doing

461
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: their best good hustle. They were a little inaccurate and

462
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 3: their hearts in the right place. Here's the real one.

463
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: And also I am him now like Rio who says

464
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: he is now the news, he usually ends.

465
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: Up that way. Yeah, he usually ends up that way.

466
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: And that's just the personality flaw of narcissism, right, But

467
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: that's not what we're here for now. We're not talking

468
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: about the nicey nice Oh. I forgot to mention this.

469
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: Why you guys are talking about esoterism. Consider eccentric checkers

470
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 3: esoteric the chess version, right, So eccentricity is acceptable in

471
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: most societies. Being esoteric can get you into some murky water.

472
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: So we're not exploring the nice and ice ones. We

473
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: want to explore examples of alleged cults that went to

474
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 3: a dark side. And let's start with the Zizians, because

475
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 3: we mentioned these bat on Strange News on our Strange

476
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 3: News program a while back, but we were I think

477
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: we were pushed for time, so we didn't get to

478
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 3: talk too much about it, but we did say we

479
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: wanted to return to a later, deeper examination. They're really

480
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 3: interesting because they are an ideological offshoot of something called rationalism,

481
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 3: not the old school rationalism. It's the twenty first century

482
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 3: school of thought. That was inspired by discussions on a

483
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: group of Internet blogs, and it became really really popular

484
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: in the Silicon Valley right in the Bay area of

485
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 3: San Francisco. It's very tech forward. Let's describe rationalism as

486
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: as this movement describes it something. Yeah.

487
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 5: The idea there is that you can use objective rational thoughts.

488
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: It's fine to avoid the cognitive biases all humans struggle with.

489
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 5: And folks that are into this particular movement are also

490
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 5: often interested in futurism, transhumanism, the nature and horizons and

491
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 5: potential reach of AI, and social movements like effective altruism.

492
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 5: All these things sound fine except when you get the

493
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 5: you know, the AI part that maybe I don't know,

494
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 5: I've always wondered what we're looking like in terms of

495
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 5: actual AI worship.

496
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: I feel like it's not far off, you know what

497
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: I mean.

498
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 5: It really does feel like some people who talk about

499
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 5: it as though it were some sort of new divine power, right.

500
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 3: And these movements are concerned about just what you described there.

501
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: They're concerned about the role of AI and its effect

502
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: on organic minds. They're wondering, right, and we already, you know,

503
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: we have to say while this encompasses a myriad of

504
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 3: sometimes self contradicting concepts. There are real and valid concerns

505
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: about the amount of control that humans are giving these

506
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: large language models currently over their lives, and we may

507
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: talk about that in the future Strange News or listener

508
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: mail program. But I'm thinking of the people who have

509
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: believed that their chat gptsque service was sentient, was a god,

510
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: was their soulmate ordered or ordered them to go off

511
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: their meds or even commit acts of self harm. What

512
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: you got to remember is, right now, those things are

513
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: yes and machines very much. So they are not giving you.

514
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 3: They're not giving you the advice that a organic therapist

515
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: would approve of.

516
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 5: Have we seen a lot in the news lately about kids, Yeah,

517
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: like believing in these things as they're like, you know,

518
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 5: special friend or imaginary friend or whatever. And I mean

519
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 5: I believe there were some stories even of a dut

520
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 5: that we're very much going down that particular rabbit hole.

521
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 5: So you know, there are a lot of lonely people

522
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 5: out there, and these technologies can be predatory.

523
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: Imagine having a partner that never tells you you're wrong,

524
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: never checks you on anything right, and.

525
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 4: Just yes, good but not good, not very.

526
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: Much non ideal. It's also you know, years back, I

527
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: remember had said that we're increasingly as a society, we're

528
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: using technology as a vector to create supernatural things, all

529
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: the old folk tales, right. The story of the Gin

530
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: now is very much like a large language model. It's

531
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: a limited gin to check out our episodes on that, oh,

532
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: or get weird. All right, So, speaking of weird, the

533
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: Zizians take this idea that Noel just described here, this

534
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: series of interest and thoughts, and they run with it.

535
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: They advocate additionally for things like anarchism, veganism more increasingly

536
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: actually radical interpretations of that rationalist philosophy. And they describe

537
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 3: themselves as vegan, anarcho, transhumanist, and arcotranshumanist being one word.

538
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: It sounds fancy, right, and if you like fancy words,

539
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: it sounds legit. One of the best articles written about

540
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: this is back in February twenty twenty five for Wired

541
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: is by Evan Ratleth. It's called the Delirious, violent, impossible

542
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: True Story of the Zizians. So let's play with this

543
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: a little, I guess to be fair, this is an

544
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: active organization. The folks that would be identified by outsiders

545
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: and by law enforcement now on a federal level. As Zizians,

546
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: they find it offensive to be described as members of

547
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: a group. They find it offensive for someone to say

548
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: they have a leader. They say, we have discussions about concepts. Right,

549
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 3: we don't have anyone in charge. We aren't even really

550
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: a group, but we're going to use the term Zizian

551
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: for convenience and clarity with respect. And they kind of

552
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: do have a leader.

553
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a very weird crew. And as you said,

554
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: we discussed them a little bit. There's a fantastic article

555
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: you can check out from PBS News called a timeline

556
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: of cult like Zizian group tied to killing of a

557
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: border patrol agent in Vermont. It just goes through like

558
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: the dates of when this stuff happened. But it is

559
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: weird how it all unfolded, because it seems like authorities

560
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: weren't even aware of them until there were several deaths.

561
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's correct. It's similar to train hopping murders.

562
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: Oh and I met a train hopper cult too. The

563
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: closest thing they have the Zizians to a leader would

564
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: be the founder of the movement, a person known as

565
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: Jack ziz Lesoda goes by ziz Lesoda now and they only,

566
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: as Man was saying, they only came to the attention

567
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 3: of authorities after ziz Lsoda, who identifies as female, and

568
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 3: the group were linked to no less than six killings

569
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 3: across the United States, including the murder of that US

570
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: Border Patrol agent. This includes a double homicide in Pennsylvania,

571
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: stabbing in California. The shooting of the border guard occurred

572
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: in January of twenty twenty five. So these guys are

573
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: relatively fresh baked as far as colts go. And we

574
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: could do an episode or series all its own about

575
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: the escalation of the Zizians they started. Okay, So ziz

576
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: Lsoda was very active in organizations in the Bay Area

577
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: that champion rationalism, the Center for Applied Rationality. It's an

578
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: innocuous name, but they're not a bad group. You know,

579
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: outsiders the worst criticism you could level if you take

580
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: religion out of it. You could say these are nerdy

581
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: people who are very into philosophy, which is fine. Who

582
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: doesn't know a nerdy person into philosophy?

583
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 5: And I mean, we've talked about this before. There is

584
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 5: an argument for AI being the ultimate form of rationalism,

585
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 5: you know, like if it is looking at all possibilities

586
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 5: and then making assessments based on data points and based

587
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 5: on you know, whatever the optimal conditions might be.

588
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that's how it.

589
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 5: Always works, because of course it's programmed by humans who

590
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 5: are inherently fallible. But I can see where this line

591
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 5: of thinking from rationalism into AI, you know, kind of flows.

592
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you can.

593
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: You can have someone like Ziz who has that framework

594
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: right and then injects their own interesting weird concept. This

595
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: this concept that the two hemispheres of the human brain

596
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: are separate enough that they can have separate values, and

597
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: you can literally almost have two individuals living within your

598
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: you know that the complex of organs that we call

599
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 2: the brain.

600
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 4: By cameral mind stuff, isn't it.

601
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: Yes, But even to where you could have like literally

602
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: different human beings, different genders, different everything living inside you,

603
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 2: which yeah, you know makes up maybe some people interested

604
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: other people kind of like, I don't really get it.

605
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 5: And then when you circivity to it though that I

606
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 5: don't mind, Like there's a certain like fluidness to that,

607
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 5: you know, yeah, gender at the very least, right, Like

608
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 5: that makes sense and seems cool.

609
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 2: To me, But then it splits enough to where you've

610
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 2: got individuals who were maybe interested in the other stuff,

611
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: who are now deciding whether or not they believe that

612
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: thing as a core tenant. Right, and then splinter splinters

613
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: begin to occur.

614
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am vast. I contain multitudes. I kind of

615
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: wonder what is Lesota thinks of that recent film adaptation

616
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,959
Speaker 3: of the Stephen King short story, The Life of Chuck.

617
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 3: I saw that earlier. Is it good?

618
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 4: I didn't know that was Stephen King.

619
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.

620
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: It's based on a short story of streaming in theaters.

621
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 3: It's in theaters.

622
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 4: Have to put it on my list. I do love

623
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 4: Stephen King. And they're not all created equal, though, are they?

624
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: No? Not everything can be as good as Maximum Overdrive.

625
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 3: But also go on. Everybody watched the trailer for Maximum Overdrive.

626
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: I'm Stephen King and I'm geta scare. I like yeah,

627
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 3: executive produced by Cocaine and Steve would say that too.

628
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: So this was.

629
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 4: A time in his life where it was bad news.

630
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: Yes, that movie made me terrified of the soda machines

631
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: A lot of time.

632
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 3: I saw one of the I saw his semi. I

633
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: was on some off the grid stuff and I saw

634
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 3: a semi with that green goblin or hop goblin front

635
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: to spiece. Just for a second, I was thinking I

636
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: should get back in the car, probably just in case.

637
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: That could exist.

638
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 4: That's It's definitely was. It's like, you know, like a

639
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 4: fun trucker kind of thing.

640
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they modit it.

641
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 5: I remember the part where John Carlo Esposito in one

642
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 5: of his early roles, gets zapped by an arcade machine.

643
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 5: I want to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, bad like painted

644
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 5: on electricity, you know, coming on God.

645
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: I love the way Stevie King writes anyway. Yeah, Life

646
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: at Shock. We're not sponsored by it, but we do.

647
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 3: I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts. I'd love to

648
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 3: see what you guys think of it. And the reason

649
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 3: I'm bringing that up why would be interesting for Lesta

650
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: and her non followers to watch it is because there

651
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: is a great emphasis upon the idea of the inner

652
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: mind as its own at times paradoxical universe. Barry Stephen King,

653
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 3: heady stuff. Anyway. Yeah, Lesta is originally involved and as

654
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: Matt said, originally involved with things like the c Far

655
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: Center for Applied Rationality, but then further injecting their own

656
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: beliefs creating communes with increasingly like minded people and then

657
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: asking or pushing the CFR and other organizations to fall

658
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: in line with those new beliefs. So this leads to

659
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 3: disagreements and tention, and that builds to protest, and that

660
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: builds to the intervention of law enforcement, and that builds

661
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 3: to legal action such that ziz Lesoda ends up committing

662
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 3: pseudo side. She fakes her own death in a boting

663
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: accident or what appears to be a boting accident at

664
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: the time, and she's on the lamb off the grid

665
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 3: from August of twenty twenty two to January of twenty

666
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: twenty three. She is found in a Philly hotel room.

667
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 3: Police are not specifically necessarily looking for her. Instead, they're

668
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 3: searching for a weapon that they believe was used in

669
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: some of those murders we described earlier. I believe the

670
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 3: double homicide. So Lesoda gets arrested because she has an

671
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 3: outstanding warrant for Shenanigans in California, also gets arrested on

672
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 3: charges of disorderly conduct, interfering with a police investigation, gets

673
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: released on a reduced unsecured bell of about bail of

674
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: about my tennessee came out. We can give it of

675
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 3: about thanks man about ten thousand dollars, shows up to

676
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 3: court that August, but then skips town and misses a

677
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 3: December court date, and then gets caught in a campsite

678
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 3: in Frostburg, Maryland, attempting the camp reported by the camp owner.

679
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: And right now as we record, Lesota and several non

680
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 3: followers associated with the Zizian movement are in custody without

681
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: bail this time because if you skip bail once, they're

682
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: they're not going to let you get a second go

683
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 3: at it, unfortunately. So if you do have to skip bail,

684
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 3: which we don't recommend, do it right the first time.

685
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's true.

686
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: Though we can't recommend that you look at the full

687
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: story of this enough because it is weird. There's a

688
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: sword fight at one point in this thing where a

689
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: landlord is trying to evict this group of people who

690
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: are living on his property in Vallejo, California, and they

691
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 2: he's attacked by a sword and he ends up getting

692
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 2: partially blinded or blinded in some way with the sword

693
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: and impaled by a sword and ends up yes and

694
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: ends up shooting and killing one of the people who

695
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: is a part.

696
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: Of the group, and lend is eighty at this time.

697
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 3: By the way, he is a bruiser for an elderly human.

698
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and he had a gun, so whoop's.

699
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 3: Gone to a sword fight. Uh yeah, this is something

700
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: we may return to in more depth. There's been a

701
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 3: lot of work in journalism about this, so do check

702
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 3: out those swords for more. Uh. These actions bear all

703
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: the hallmarks of cultic tactics we described earlier. Unfortunately, due

704
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: to some of their philosophy that that very gender fluidity

705
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: that Noel described there, this became red meat for more

706
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: conservative factions of the US media right, and it was used,

707
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 3: unfortunately to vilify or villainize a lot of innocent people.

708
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: But I think it's fair to say, while we are

709
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: not the lawyers, and we are not the judges nor

710
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 3: the jury, they had to have done some of this.

711
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: The cysiasts did some of this stuff, they're guilty at

712
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 3: something for sure. Well.

713
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the attack that we just described is

714
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: pretty well documented, and you know, the injuries to carl

715
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: In were well documented in the statements and all that stuff.

716
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of evidence that we're not discussing, right,

717
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: now on the on the show.

718
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 3: We will be sure to update as the legal proceedings

719
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: involving Lesta and the group called the Zizians continue. But

720
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: for now, since we're in California, how about we stay

721
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: there for a moment and travel back to the early

722
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 3: nineteen seventies. This is where we see things that might

723
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 3: be called gangs by some and cults by others.

724
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 5: Also in the Bay Area, the Zebra murders of nineteen

725
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 5: seventy three, much like the you know Zodiac killings, had

726
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: that area paralyzed with fear. The name came from a

727
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 5: crime wave of what would seem on the face like

728
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 5: random killings, with the only commonality being the victims were

729
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 5: Caucasian and the suspects targeting them were reported to be black.

730
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 5: So this is race war kind of vibes in terms

731
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 5: of like some of that fear that's sort of spreading

732
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 5: across the area. And these were particularly brutal murders and

733
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 5: involved things like sexualists and even forms of dismemberment decapitation.

734
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was really grody.

735
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a It's an interesting thing to imagine it

736
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people know about Charles

737
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: Manson We've done episodes on Charles Manson. You can listen

738
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 2: to this right now. And this concept of helter skelter

739
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: and this concept of starting a race war on the

740
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 2: Caucasian side of a person who believes they are ultra

741
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: powerful and they want to begin the thing that will

742
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 2: start the end times or whatever that is. It's interesting

743
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,959
Speaker 2: to see it flipped here in that way.

744
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: One hundred percent yeah, because again I love that point.

745
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 3: It shows us that the tactics end up being the

746
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 3: one of the defining factors cult like activity. Ultimately, these

747
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 3: killers are linked to a militant Black Muslim group known

748
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: as the Death Angels, and they do self identify by

749
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: that name. The one of their victims who survived would

750
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: go on to be the future mayor of San Francisco.

751
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: But before he becomes the mayor, the guy we later

752
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 3: call Mayor Agnos talks to CBS News at the time

753
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: he's attacked after he goes to a meeting and they

754
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 3: do a terrible number on him, a lot of oregon spleen, injury,

755
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: you name it. But he does survive and he discloses

756
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: information that he has learned about the group, and he

757
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: says in order to be initiated into this murderous group.

758
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: The prospective or potential member has to kill a white person. Now,

759
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: that can be similar to other gang initiations. What makes

760
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: them occult is the tie to their interpretation of religious ideology.

761
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 5: And some of those types of initiations often end up

762
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 5: being determined to be kind of urban lore, right, yeah,

763
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 5: like the whole like turn the link the brites or

764
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 5: whatever and then kill, you know, kill the first person

765
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 5: that does whatever the thing is, right, We hear those

766
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 5: in like scary stories to tell around the campfire type

767
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 5: things as well. This just has the vibe of that.

768
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 5: But this did I believe turn out to be true?

769
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 5: And then of course the heavy handed approach that law

770
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 5: enforcement took didn't really do much for the cause.

771
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 3: Let's just say, right, yeah, you know, one hundred percent.

772
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 4: Stopping frisk proto kind of stopping frisk type stock.

773
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah, and there was a lot of

774
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 3: hypocrisy to it too. It as well, We're incredibly fortunate

775
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: to have many members of Muslim faith in the stuff.

776
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 3: They don't want you to know, audience, So we want

777
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: to take pains to point out obviously, no one in

778
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: the actual Islamic community approves of heinous acts like this,

779
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: No one, you know what I mean, the police, definitely,

780
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: to your point, NOL could have handled it much better.

781
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: The mayor at the time is a guy named Joe Aliotto,

782
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: and he orders a city wide dragnet stuff frisk, question

783
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 3: all black mails between the ages of twenty and thirty,

784
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 3: five feet nine to six feet tall and medium build

785
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: So everybody gets hassled, right, and there's a big part

786
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 3: of the population. If you pass whatever arbitrary inspection law

787
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 3: enforcement has, then you are to be given I can't

788
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: believe this is true. What they called a zebra check card.

789
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: So then when you inevitably get stopped again, you can

790
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: show them the card that another officer is signed off

791
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 3: on and say, hey, I'm not the you know, I'm

792
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 3: not the person you're looking for. I'm not the killer

793
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 3: you're looking for. This did not work, and it was

794
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 3: super controversial because other political and religious activists were saying, Hey,

795
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 3: the Zodiac killer wasn't that long ago. Why weren't we

796
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 3: stopping and frisking every white dude, you know what I mean?

797
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: Why the hypocrisy and the panic here? Islamophobia? Is it racism?

798
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 3: Is it all of the above. It did end up

799
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: getting solved only because one member of the Death Angels,

800
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 3: a guy named Anthony Harris, was watching the news and

801
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: recognized himself from a composite sketch, a law enforcement sketch

802
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: based on eyewitnesses, and it looked enough like him that

803
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 3: he panicked. He called the cops, probably partially incentivized by

804
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 3: the monetary reward, and he's sang. He told them names, places, details, associations.

805
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: Four suspects get convicted of sixteen murders. They're given life sentences.

806
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 3: Harris goes into wit SEC witness production witness security, And

807
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 3: this is confusing. This is how prevalent a lot of

808
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 3: these obscure cults are because we didn't know this when

809
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: we're starting on the research. But later there was another

810
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: cult leader, guy named Yahwa bin Yawa, who recreated the

811
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 3: Death Angels in Florida, result in more than a dozen murders.

812
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 3: They were targeting what they saw is racial opponents as well,

813
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: but they were also targeting any dissidents within the organization

814
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 3: so that they could avoid having an Anthony Harris.

815
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, don't don't want that for sure, snitch in

816
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 2: the group, right, No.

817
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 4: Jumps in the squadch sch Witsac.

818
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 2: That's not Yeah, well, it's interesting when this happen. You're

819
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: talking about the timeline there with the Zodiac because it

820
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: was sixty eight to seventy that's when the confirmed Zodiac

821
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: killings were, so there was you can imagine parts of

822
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: the city, especially a little north of San Francisco, were

823
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: pretty freaked out because those were all Caucasian victims during

824
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: the Zodiac killings, and then you imagine there are a

825
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: bunch of other Caucasian people getting killed. It's no wonder

826
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: that there were connections made or you know, possible connections

827
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: made to the Zebra murders there or the what do

828
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: we call death angels. Yeah, it's it's interesting to see

829
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: how this kind of thing can come in waves where

830
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: there's either an individual who has decided or possibly a

831
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: group as in the Zodiac killing, like maybe it was

832
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: a group and then another group like this of like

833
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: minded people. You can have so many people killed.

834
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: It's just it's nuts, Yeah, especially when bad faith actors

835
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 3: realize the tactics that will work right when you're trying

836
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 3: to get away with stuff. So they saw the way

837
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: law enforcement in the area operated and they realize the

838
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 3: exploits that could be deployed there. We're going to deploy

839
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 3: a second ad break. We're gonna take some time to

840
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: get a breather here because that got really dark, and

841
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: we'll be back with some more examples of cults you

842
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: have never heard of, or cults you maybe don't know

843
00:49:53,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: too much about. Weave returned monocuous name brides of Christ.

844
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 3: I could swear I've heard that as the moniker of

845
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 3: multiple religious organizations.

846
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's actually used to refer to nuns, right.

847
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, yeah, So we're not talking about those

848
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 3: completely innocent organizations or groups of people.

849
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 4: Innocent depending I mean, you know, case.

850
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: By case by base, case by case, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

851
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: If you go to the Oregon Encyclopedia, which has a

852
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,959
Speaker 3: great rite up on this, we're going to learn about

853
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 3: another German, not like the Coconut guy in nineteen oh three,

854
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: a guy named Edmund Crefield is. He's thirty three years old.

855
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: He's an immigrant from Germany. He used to be a

856
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 3: captain in the Salvation Army, and.

857
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 4: They had ranks in the Salvation Army to me.

858
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: He so he goes to his former and current fellows

859
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: and he convinces about twenty Salvation Army soldiers and their

860
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 3: families in a town called Corvallis to join his new church.

861
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 3: Townspeople think it's ridiculous at first. They're like, oh, this

862
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: Poluca there you.

863
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 5: Go, shout out, check out the Poluka episode of ridiculous history.

864
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 4: What's going on with this guy?

865
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 3: Though?

866
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: He seems to be convincing.

867
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, he's definitely got the gift a gap.

868
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 3: He's talking twenty twenty families into joining up with his

869
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: new prophetic revelations. Turns out he he is the main

870
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 3: prophet of Christ, and then later he realizes he is Christ. Spoiler,

871
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 3: Colts don't really have a shamal on twist.

872
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 4: To the logical masks.

873
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 3: Next step, right right right, it's very uh what's that

874
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: great Bible on how to write screenplays? Save the cat?

875
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, colts have a save the category for sure.

876
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 3: The townspeople here they pooh pooh and pishaw. These folks.

877
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 3: They call them holy rollers, so already a phrase at

878
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: the time, but then the news begins reporting strange things

879
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: they say. Crefield looked around at his followers, pointed to

880
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 3: the women and said, one of you will be the

881
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 3: mother of the returning Jesus Christ to do that to

882
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 3: figure this out, because we're all good Christians. I need

883
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 3: to lay hands upon you so I can purify you.

884
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, he got real handsy, indeed, and I don't know,

885
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 5: maybe there's a there's some really nasty stuff involving forcible

886
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 5: well enforceable is you know, they were obviously doing it

887
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 5: to some degree of free will, but you know, coerced

888
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 5: at the very least women in his flock to perform

889
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 5: sex acts on him with him in front of young members.

890
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 3: Of the flock.

891
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 4: Let's just say, it's really like you'd say, been unclean.

892
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: Unclean agreed, and he denied all the allegations, but irrefutable

893
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 3: evidence of activities came to light and a lot of

894
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 3: several of those accusations proved solid. He eventually goes to

895
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: prison for adultery, which is a crime in that part

896
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: of the world at the time. He doesn't, you know,

897
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 3: get a life sentence for adultery. He's released in nineteen

898
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 3: oh six, and when he's released, he comes back to

899
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 3: his followers. He still has followers, and he says, I

900
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 3: realize that I am the return of Christ. Mainly it's

901
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 3: mainly me. I figured this out in the Hoo's gal

902
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: and me going to prison was sort of like when

903
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ died and came back. Also, I have supernatural

904
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 3: divine powers. His followers are like, oh, yeah, you did

905
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 3: the San fran earthquake right, and He's like.

906
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 4: Absolute, that was definitely me.

907
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he continued his activities. Eventually as followers and

908
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 3: their family members relatives who are trying to get their

909
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 3: loved ones out of this cult, they turn on because

910
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 3: you know what gifts. So Craffield is an interesting case

911
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 3: because he becomes a victim of his own cult. The

912
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: brother of one of the female members is really worried

913
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 3: that Craffield's going to try to get his hands on

914
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 3: this eighteen year old kid and quote unquote purifier. So

915
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: this guy tracks Crawfield down and murders him in front

916
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 3: of multiple witnesses. Ultimately, the judge is kind of on

917
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 3: the side of the murderer. That's another that's another weird,

918
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 3: I would say, anomalist part of this case. So that's

919
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 3: a Brides of Christ. The cult you probably haven't heard

920
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 3: of unless you grew up in that part of Oregon

921
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: in the early nineteen hundreds.

922
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: Do you guys see the mugshot of Craffield.

923
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did it.

924
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean that's a.

925
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 4: Ug right there, ug right.

926
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, don't let that guy get his hands on you.

927
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: It's so gross. They would roll around naked too. That's

928
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 3: just the Holy Rollers thing.

929
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: Just that face telling you you need to be purified with.

930
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 5: The stripe pajamas. Oh that's the Yeah, this is an

931
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 5: old timey prison shot. He's in the classic striped pajamas.

932
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 4: What a stare dead eyes yep.

933
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: So with that, folks, we've just given you a few

934
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 3: examples of Colts past and present that you probably haven't

935
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 3: heard of unless you follow Colt News closely Cult news closely.

936
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 3: But there there's so many more to get to. We

937
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 3: haven't even talked about profundity yours. The ant Hill Kids

938
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 3: amshon wrinko.

939
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 5: The ant Hill Kids has like a fun after school gang,

940
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 5: like the Apple Dumpling Gang or something, you know, not

941
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 5: that those ant.

942
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 3: Hill kids good stealing as apple pie off the ledge. Yeah,

943
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 3: and also this was there's so many of these organizations

944
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 3: with alleged or proven criminal acts that I actually I

945
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,439
Speaker 3: got confused when I was looking into the ant Hill

946
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 3: Kids because I was thinking of that Central European cult

947
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 3: the ants, remember where that girl faked being a teenage

948
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 3: boy but that grown woman faked being a teenage boy

949
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 3: friend don't yours?

950
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah I don't, but that sounds fascinating. I'm sure we

951
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 4: talked about it.

952
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 3: I just and then.

953
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 4: You get into a lot of this stuff.

954
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 2: Well then she escaped getting in trouble and was found

955
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 2: again impersonating somebody new.

956
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then got away again and maybe out there

957
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 3: still do check out our episode on the family. We

958
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 3: have a lot of stuff diving into cults. Each of

959
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 3: the things we mentioned here could of course be their

960
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 3: own episode or indeed a series went in by saying,

961
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 3: if you are loved when or struggling to escape a

962
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 3: cultic environment, please remember you're not alone. There are tons

963
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 3: of resources out there to help. Although guys, I would say,

964
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 3: we recommend trying to steer clear of controversial deprogramming practices. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

965
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 3: not good. Yeah, So you could check out, for example,

966
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: any number of online resources like cultescape dot com. We

967
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: also we recommended the excellent podcast Was I In a Cult?

968
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 3: Check that out. For now, we want to hear from you.

969
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: Please reach out tell us about the local suspected cults

970
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: or cultic organizations in your neck of the global woods.

971
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: Be safe out there. You can find us online. You

972
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 3: can drop us a telephone message. I like how I'm talking,

973
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 3: as though that's a new fangled invention. You could also

974
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 3: send us a good old fashioned email.

975
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 4: That's right.

976
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 5: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

977
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 5: we exist all over the internet, especially on XFKA, Twitter,

978
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 5: on YouTube we have video content if we are perusing Enjoyment,

979
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 5: and on Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where it

980
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 5: gets crazy. On Instagram and TikTok. However, we're Conspiracy Stuff Show.

981
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

982
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. When you call in, give yourself a

983
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use

984
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you want

985
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: to send us an email, we have that too.

986
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

987
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the cult

988
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,479
Speaker 3: writes back, So step a little further out into the dark.

989
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 3: Join us conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

990
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

991
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

992
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.