WEBVTT - Hedge Funds Gorged on Startups 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:06.840 Tim Stanevik. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:11.000 news from the world's of business and finance, clus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.040 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.000 not to mention our journalists and analyst in more than 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.960 one and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.880 on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.000 listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.200 on Bloomberg Radio or stream us live on YouTube and 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.800 Bloomberg dot com. We know it was tough for public markets, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.120 but what about the private markets, Tim, Yeah, those high 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.880 flying private companies such as Discord, Stripe, Instacart, Chime and more. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.200 Something that hedge funds really gorged on big time last year. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.080 How much value did those companies created? In two The 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.040 story a most read on the Bloomberg Today with more 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.000 We've got Bloomberg News hedge fund reporter Hemma Parmer with 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.800 isn't our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio with more love this story? 0:00:54.880 --> 0:01:00.000 How much you did some exclusive analysis for this story 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.240 today Among the most route on the Blueberg terminal. Just 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.400 how bad was it for for hedge funds? And also 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.720 how did you do it? Because these private market valuations, UM, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.319 they don't get revised very frequently, right, UM, So hedge funds, generally, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.560 that the crossover funds, those that do both public and 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.520 private investing UM had a very difficult year. We've reported 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.640 about this extensively down double digits UM. And on the 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.280 private side, you know, the story really talks about how 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.919 obscure these markets really are and nobody really knows exactly 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:29.720 how much of these companies are worth. It's not like 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.560 the stock market where everyone knows every every single second 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.520 one a company is worth. And so UM, Well we 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.440 did is we looked at, well, what companies private companies 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.040 are mutual funds invested in that hedge funds are also 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.680 invested in. Because mutual funds have to disclose publicly how 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.000 the marks for their companies over time, hedge funds don't 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.440 have to disclose that publicly. UM. And so we looked 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.240 at an array of companies, forty six of them, and 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.960 we said, okay, well are through our analysis with our 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.280 data team, these mutual funds marked down about seventy of 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.240 the forty six companies UM with average a decline of 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.160 with some down as much as that's pretty intense. So 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.239 it shows really just the extent of these markdowns UM 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.120 and and how bad it could be for for some 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:16.800 of these funds. So then talk to us about the 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.679 hedge fund environment. I mean they were all in, yes, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.720 a lot of them perspaciously into privates last year the 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.959 year before UM. Now, the the interesting thing is that 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.960 every firm can mark their private companies differently. And it 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.360 could be because of their structure, maybe they asked for 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.600 special terms in their investment. It could be because of 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.720 their size of their investment, it could be when they 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.639 got in, but that just makes all the harder to 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.920 figure out, like what is it worth? But companies like 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.359 tro Price and Fidelity want to make sure that they're 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:48.120 accurate because they actually have these invested as parts of 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.160 mutual funds that people can invest in. Right. So the 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.639 liquidity yes, So because mutual funds are so liquid, they 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.280 have to mark these things a lot more frequently, and 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.280 because UM people will may want to a deem more often, 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.239 they will be maybe even overly cautious about marking things 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.040 down aggressively, so so that people are not overpaid when 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.880 they are redeeming or when people are getting in, they're 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.720 not buying into expensive So you do you could see 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.880 more aggressive markdowns and the mutual funds than anywhere else. Um. 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:18.799 And if you look at our story, we even show 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.160 dispersion amongst mutual funds. So in some cases the mutual 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.480 funds generally agree on a company, and in some cases 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.799 they really don't. If you look at Byte Dance, the 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.880 dot plot that we have here shows mutual funds generally 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.160 did not agree on how much bike Dance was worth 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.920 at any points in the past year, and the spread 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.320 is pretty significant well for someone who follows the hedge 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.040 funny industry, like, so, how do you think about it 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.280 and potentially the stories we might see play out? Yes, 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.680 so I think as we look through the rest of 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.960 this year, UM, we've been already seeing some some struggling 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.920 news of startups, startup companies firing, a lot more people 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.720 struggling with the revenue. If that continues, companies, firms are 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.760 going to have to either mark their underlying companies down 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.920 or you might see companies mark themselves down increasingly. And 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.120 so if that continues, it's basically bodes more pain. One 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.920 thing I have to ask you because I feel like 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.360 whenever there's even a bad hedge fund year, there's still 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.720 a ton of money that comes into the hedge fund industry. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.240 Where were assets last year compared to the year before. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.719 I think about on pace. I think last time we 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.120 talked they were fortullion UM. Generally speaking, the money is 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.240 flowing into the bigger firms, um into the bigger I 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.120 think it's still coming in and generally we have seen 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.880 some redemptions this year, but I wouldn't say so much 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:30.520 so that it makes a huge dent into the four 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:36.120 trillion dollar number. Okay, so here's my question. Um, it's 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.600 about it wasn't all bad news. There were some companies 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.039 that were actually marked up last year, and there's a 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.799 great graphic in this. So read it on the Blomberg 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.039 Tournament on YouTube. Maybe we can back up. I wasn't 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.400 watching you, And what it shows is that there are 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.320 companies in here like Bite Dance, SpaceX, and a couple 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.839 others that actually did pretty well a small minority in 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.839 twenty seconds. What was unique about these companies or how 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.880 they were valued. Yes, so some companies are doing fine. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.480 Some companies are able to raise money. I'm are able 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.400 to raise money at a premium, may have enough money, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.560 have maybe raised enough in the past that they can 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.120 keep going without needing to go back to the market. Um. 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.279 And so it's not paying across the board by any means. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.240 There's a lot of pain, but it certainly doesn't mean 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.000 that there's that the companies can't do an upground um 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.440 or be okay or be marked up even if it 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.400 gets to be tough for economic environment. Just a few 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.600 seconds left potentially, I mean, I think I think so 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:33.120 much as yet to be seen, and this is such 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.080 a tricky obscure space. Um. I think we'll see a 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.640 lot of pain ahead, but I think we'll also see 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.080 some successes. So which is the howag fun world? Right? 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.440 That world which is always why it's fascinating? Recover it 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.520 so well? Like him a Parmer does. She's Bloomberg News 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.679 Hedgephune reporter here in our interactive broker studio. Please sees 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:55.240 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Stenavic on 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.599 Bloomberg Radio. This week is Bloomberg Business Week. Cover stories 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.280 on newsstands, the issue online at Bloomberg dot com, slash 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.120 Business This Week and always on the Bloomberg terminal. The 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.240 cover story centers on a man who looks poised to 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.080 run for the highest office in the land come and 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.440 how his rhetoric is finding traction within the Republican grassroots circles. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.119 The story also Today's Bloomberg Big Take. With this story, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.080 we turned to Bloomberg Business Week national correspondent Josh Creen, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.719 who joins us on the phone from Washington. Also with 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.200 us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio is the editor 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.279 of the magazine, Joe Webber. Joel, Um, we're talking about 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.479 Florida Governor Rhn de Santis. Yeah, obviously there's uh sort 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.000 of a been a mess in d C this week. Um, 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.480 but I think almost the bigger political story that is 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:42.320 going to perhaps have a longer trajectory is the Ruhn 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.280 de Santist narrative. And we've been obsessed with this one 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.560 for a while, especially coming out of mid terms, because 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.440 what midterms really showed was how much of Florida has 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.440 been galvanized behind Ron de Santis. And now the question becomes, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.320 can Ron de Santis actually take that narrative and make 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.200 it be a national one? And to do that, Josh 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.280 pointed out something that I thought was just incredible, which is, 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:12.160 unlike many Republican predecessors, De Santis has managed to put 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.800 a target on business in a way that no one 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.800 else has ever done before, and that has really galvanized 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:24.720 UM grassroots support behind De Santis. Um. So, Josh, turn 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.680 it over to you. Where did you learn about Ron 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.640 De Santis? Said, you are working on the story. Well, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:31.560 I mean, the interesting thing to me when I set 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.080 out to do this story in the fall was that 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.880 here was a guy who's clearly talented, clearly wants to 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.520 run for president, and yet faces the same big impediment 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.080 that every other Republican who wants to run for president does. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.360 And that's Donald Trump, who's like the eight pound guerilla 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.320 and has managed to kind of sideline all comers. What's 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.680 so interesting about the Santus and what sets him apart 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.680 from other Republicans like Mike Pence or Mike Pompeo. UM, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.680 you know secondary Trump figures who are known to kind 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.160 of want to run for president. Is that these crack 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.680 the code of how do you build a profile for 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:11.360 yourself among grassroots Republicans that isn't contingent on your standing 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.040 with Donald Trump, and the way that the Santus has 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.520 managed to do that is by starting the big kind 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.240 of culture war grievances that Republicans love, that the Fox 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.880 News audiences love only Unlike Trump, which makes everything about him, 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.040 the Santus has made it about business in corporate America 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.600 and companies like Disney, and they're alleged woke ism. And 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.360 that's really struck a chord with a lot of grassroots 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.600 conservative followers who are now lining up behind the Santis, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.800 and it turned him into a viable threat, I think 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:48.960 to win the nomination in how is it that business friend, 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.280 former friend at the GOP, all of a sudden has 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.120 been a great enemy that the Santis has been able 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:59.200 to leverage. You know, it's it's a great question. Happened gradually. 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.720 You know, this business has always been the great ally 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.920 of the traditional Republican establishment. They've been sympatico on policy, 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.079 They've helped fund a lot of these guys. But the 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.440 Santus is an interesting case and that he's always been 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.240 a bit of an outsider. He when he first ran 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.120 for governor in twenty eighteen, uh he was like languishing 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.120 in third place and was not the choice of the 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.480 business community. In fact, the big businesses in Florida, like 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.880 sugar and construction attacked the Santus because they had another 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.840 candidate mind. But the sand is very cleverly warmed up 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.800 to Donald Trump, got Trump's endorsement that vaulted him into 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.680 the governor's mansion. Uh. And I think the standis feels like, hey, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.960 he really doesn't know anything to big business. Um. You know, 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.960 he hasn't any problems raising money. Um. But be more 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.840 and more people I think in our culture view big 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.520 business as an enemy or a player in the culture 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:53.920 wars in a way that maybe they did in a 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.200 generation ago. So you've got the George Floyd protests, you 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:02.120 have Colin Kaepernick protests on least violence with Nike. Corporate 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.240 America has become politicized, and what the Santus has done 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.840 is really leveraged that for his own political needs. Actually, 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.559 you know, you mentioned, um, some big industry there. One 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.080 of the one of the things that I thought was 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.640 so interesting in the story that I learned was his 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.360 willingness to take on big sugar. And you briefly mentioned that. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.160 But just slow that down for a second. I mean, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.280 you cannot imagine a bigger industry in Florida than sugar. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.840 And the first thing that Roun de Santis does is 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.280 take on big sugar. What did he learn from that 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.360 and what did others learn about him in the process. Well, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.680 what's the interesting with the historical content? I mean, sugar 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.840 is one of the big industries there, has a ton 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.040 of money, is very actively involved in politics, and in 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.960 eighteen they were supporting the state Agriculture commissioner who was 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.040 who was who was their guy? And they ran a 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.040 lot of negative ads on the Santus. If you step 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.440 back through and think about what sugar needs and the 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.440 context of modern Republican politics, they need cheap immigrant labor um, 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.760 you know, and they want to open markets. Well, what's 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.240 been the big change in Republican politics since Donald Trump 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.840 came in? He's turned the party very anti immigrant and 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.640 very anti trade, and so that helped drive a wedge 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.559 I think between traditional Republicans and kind of Trump to 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.760 Santas style Republicans. So it's much easier for De Santis 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.080 to go out, uh and attack sugar um, you know, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.360 not based on kind of state economic grounds, but but 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.440 more on on on culture and on issues of you know, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.839 should they be able to use immigrant labor. Well, I 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.000 know from being at tons of Trump rallies to Santus 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:31.560 campaign events that Republicans still really care about immigration. And so, uh, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.439 you know, while while Sugar has a lot of powerful 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.880 lobbyist still has a lot of political sway in Florida, 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.480 they don't have nearly this way that they did, you know, 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.199 ten fifteen years ago and Jeff Bush was president, and 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.960 you know, you have this kind of uh populist uprising 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.520 that certainly saw in Steen round Donald Trump and a 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.720 lot of other candidates that now at least Florida has 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.600 gravitated very strongly to Rohnd De Santas. And it's worth 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.719 pointing out this isn't just Republicans and Trump supporters. He 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.120 all so one a lot of independence and a lot 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.600 of Democratic voters too. So he's really come up with 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.600 a formula that has worked well in Florida and could 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.240 conceivably work on the national level. Two, but can he 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.679 take on Donald Trump? Can he go head to head 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.520 with with Donald Trump? Uh? As we've learned in the 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.720 mid terms, De Santis was very popular, Trump not so much. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.280 But as you write, people have made the mistake of 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.400 counting out Trump before, Yeah, and De Santis strategy And know, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.240 when I was down there, Trump was still considered this big, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.960 imposing figure, and the Santa's strategy has been to ignore 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.920 him entirely, to put off that fight to another day, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:41.240 Santis or to sanctimonious. Yeah, even when Trump called him, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.480 you know, Ron to sanctimonious and tried to start a 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.920 fight with him, to Santus just ignored it. And uh, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.480 you know, even in the weeks since I was down 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.160 in Florida, there's been kind of a vibe shift in 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.439 Republican politics where siddy Donald Trump doesn't seem quite as 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.800 big and scary as he wants did. Part of that 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.040 is it Republicans fared so poorly actually Trump's candidates in 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.840 the mid from elections. Um, but he just seems to 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.160 be a shrunken figure compared to what he was six 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.640 months or a year ago. So at least for the 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.400 time being, you know, De Sandus is the hot brand 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.200 among Republican donors and a lot of Republican voters. But 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.680 as you said, at some point, if he wants the 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.480 Republican nomination, he's gonna have to get up on a 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.160 debate stage and challenge Donald Trump, and so far nobody 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.600 has done that and survived, so maybe he'll be the first. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:29.440 So he's taken on this corporate wokeness. Um, where does 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.360 he go from here as a candidate, if he's going 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.000 to actually go to this national stage. What's working for him? 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.920 I mean, he started out with with Disney and criticizing 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:39.960 a lot, you know, a lot of the companies UM 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:44.480 that were openly supporting black Lives matters after after George 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:49.000 Floyd's murder in Minneapolis. Um, what's happened since then is 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.199 that I think he'd recognize that this really resonates, and 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.040 he'd broadened out the fight on corporate wokeness to focus 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.640 on big Wall Street banks UH and big asset managers, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.079 companies like Black Rock, people like Black Rocks CEO Larry Fink. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.040 He's kind of turned them into the new villains for 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.240 Republicans because you know, there's never going to be a 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.280 lot of grassroots support for Wall Street firms, but he's 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:15.200 claiming that there woke that they're diverting traditional capitalist goals 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.120 of building shareholder value in order to pursue liberal social 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.400 justice goals like curving global arming and so on. There's 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.680 a degree of truth in what he's in what he's saying. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.080 But everything I've seen is that this really does resonate 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.720 with Republican voters. If you watch Fox News prime Time. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:32.960 Maybe not this week with with the chaos we have 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.640 going on down here in Washington, but any other any 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.520 other week, and this is something that Republicans care about. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.360 It looks like it's resonating, and that's all good for 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.280 Rhode Santas political future. Josh, I'm stealing your words here, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.440 but you know, you kind of asking your story, you know, Ken, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.760 though de Santis replaced Trump's rages. For example, you write, 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.120 you know, can De Santis's attacks on s G and 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.680 Larry Fink eclipse, Trump's crusade of cricket, Hillary and Lion 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.360 ted in the pantheon of Maga villa villains. It's a 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.600 great question, like Kennet and kenn resonate nationally? Yeah, and 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.320 I don't. I don't think we have any answer to 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.360 that yet. I mean, I'll be honest, like I was 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.600 a little skeptical going into this piece, but I went 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.000 down and you know, I traveled around Florida, talked to 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.200 a lot of politicians, including Democrats, you know, talk to 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.280 some Fox News producers people like that, and it really 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.120 does register. And it's not just run De Santis saying this, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.640 and you have other candidates like Mike Pence who are 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.760 now trying to hop on the wokeness bandwagon. It's just 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.520 something that that seems to resonate with Republicans. So at 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.320 least so far, it's working for De Santis. But again, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.000 at some point you're gonna have to control confront Donald Trump, 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.840 and that's that's a showdown we haven't seen yet. Last question, 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.160 it's a quickie. What's it like to try and coverage 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.160 the Santis It isn't easy. He doesn't you know. Part 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.520 part of his stick is he hates the press and 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.440 he keeps them penned up in rallies. So uh, he 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.720 won't talk to non right wing reporters, but a lot 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.920 of a lot of people's rallies very forthcoming, very eager 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:57.480 to talk to him. And you know, not just Trump 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.920 people in Conservatives, but I ran in lots of independence 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.200 Democrats too, So um, he's certainly somebody I think that 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.560 a lot of political experts at bullish on them. Josh, yes, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.360 so no, if they both are on the debate, stage, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.000 will they both be throwing baseball caps into the audience? 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.520 I guarantee it guarantee Josh Green, the cover story of 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.400 Bloomberg Business Week, thank you so much. In our thanks 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.320 to Joel Bebber as well. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.240 Week with kirol Messer and Tim Stenovik on Bloomberg Radio 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.280 Bloomberg Quick take Out. Today. They are noting that there 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.560 is a new COVID variant, it's nicknamed the Kraken variant, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.960 that was detected last year and has become the dominant 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.480 strain here in the United States, identified in twenty eight 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.880 countries according to the w h O, and there have 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:41.520 not been any reported significant differences in severity, which makes 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.680 me happy. But what do we need to know about it? 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.800 We've got a great guest with us this afternoon. Carry 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.520 All Tof is Associate professor of epidemiology at the Johns 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.000 Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. It is supported by 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.560 Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and at Bloomberg Philanthropies. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.520 She joins us on the phone from Baltimore. Dr Altof. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.440 It's good to have you back with us. It has 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.840 been a while since we last spoken, and perhaps it's 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.320 a sign that things are concerning when it comes to 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.600 this new variant, that you are back with us and 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.879 speaking about this so called crack in variant. What does 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:14.480 our audience need to know? So this variant, we believe 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.919 is pretty transmissible. What we saw happen in December was 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.040 that it went from the circulating variant to really growing 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.000 in the proportion of sessments that we that we look 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.879 at to see what variants are circulating. It's now up 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.840 to about of those sessments that we're capturing um, which 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.679 was about a templed increase from four percent about in 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.000 the month of December. So we do know this is 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.480 highly transmissible, and therefore we start asking these additional questions 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.919 life severity, we are seeing just light increases and hastilizations 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.359 the way we expect after the holiday gatherings, what we 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.359 were kind of anticipating after the holiday gatherings. And we 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.040 also note that x bb B one five, which is 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.359 the scientific term, it's really dominant in the northeast of 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:06.160 the United States, but we're not seeing differential hospitalizations there. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.800 So so we're hoping that this early and yet still 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.560 inconclusive evidence that this is not a more severe strain 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.199 causing more severe disease is true. We're also looking at 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:23.720 that vaccine. The bivalent vaccine does have omicron variants in it, 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.760 and XBB one five is a sub variant of the 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:33.040 omicron virus, So so really having that vivulent vaccine is important. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.000 And right now we see only of adults over sixty 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.200 five who are at highest risk per severe disease are 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.840 actually vaccinated with the vivalent booster. So to protect yourself 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:51.400 from severe disease from this BBB one five vivalent boosters 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.080 are the way to go dr altof UM. What worries 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.600 you more right now? These COVID variants and covid case 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.560 is still out in our communities, or the flu, which 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.160 I know a lot of folks in my family I've 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.400 seen it and others where they're like, man, the flu 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.639 knocked me out for two weeks. What is it that 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.000 worries you a bit more? And that might be more 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.359 problematic to our health right now? You know what? I 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.280 think it's the combination. Right, So, we've seen RFV start 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.720 to come down, which is great because that was differentially 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.080 impacting or very old and or very young. We are 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.040 seeing influenza and particularly the A strings are really still 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.480 going strong. And just as you said, people are getting 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.760 pretty ill, getting down and out for for days, if 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.840 not weeks done and it's taking a while for some 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.639 folks to recover. End it again is affecting our oldest 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.680 and our youngest. So we are trying to make sure 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:44.800 that this combination is not resulting in a higher capacity 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.840 or i'm sorry, reaching capacity at hospitals, right, because that's 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.159 really our biggest concern. And so what that means is 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.000 that again, you know, vaccines, we have flu vaccines just 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.520 not necessarily going to protect you from the infection, but 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.000 we'll keep you out of the hospit it will definitely 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.200 reduce your risk of hospitalization, particularly among young and the old, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.600 who we see are at greatest risk for that severe 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.640 disease from influenza. But yees flew ripped through my house too. 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.919 It is no joke. What about when it comes to 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.240 an rs V vaccine? How close are we to one 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.160 of those, especially for kids who are the most vulnerable. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.119 You know, there have been trials of RSV vaccines that 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.880 have gone on for many, many years. There is one 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.920 we are getting excited about it is coming down the pike, um, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.840 and we are hopeful that we will be able to 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.159 share that good news that there is an rs V 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.199 vaccine that is safe and effective relatively soon. Are you 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.399 involved in the study. No, no, no, no, no, no, 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.520 not me. We we as a scientific but I think 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.040 I think the thing that is most important to recognize 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.760