1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: Quality bouts with Joseph Scott More. I want you to 2 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: think about a number really quick. A number I'm going 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: to give you. It's not some kind of mind reading 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: trick or anything. Here. Think about a number two, one, six, 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixteen. Now take that number and think 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: about it in terms of years. I can tell you 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixteen years from now, I ain't gonna 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: be here. I think I'd be just absolutely too tired 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: to be here. But imagine, imagine if you will. You've 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: committed in multiple crimes. They're so incredibly heinous that the 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: courts in California have sentenced you to two hundred and 12 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: sixteen years. Day. We're going to talk about an individual 13 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: that has recently been sentenced and story I'm gonna lay 14 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: on you today and what he did to wind up 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: where he is, well, it's nothing short of a horse. 16 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: Sorry. 17 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. So 18 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixteen years from now, Dave, if my 19 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: calculations are correct, we will be in the year two thousand, 20 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty two. It reminds me of this 21 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: what was that song from the sixties. 22 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 2: In the year twenty five, twenty five, twenty five. By 23 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: the way, Trivia Trivia, Zagar and Evans have the only 24 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: song in the history of the Top forty that went 25 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: from number one to completely. 26 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 3: Off the charts. Never have noant No, it hadn't happen, se. 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like it was. 28 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 3: It was big forever. 29 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: I mean it was like huge, huge, huge, big for weeks, 30 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: I mean, number one song forever. And then it was 31 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: like everybody stopped playing it the same day they went, Okay, 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: we're done and it was gone. 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 3: So from number one to off the charts, there you go. 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 3: And now that I've. 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: Ever really taken time to dissect that song, mate, is 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: it was it too? I mean when you compare it 37 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: to like the Archie Sugar Sugar, was it just too 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: existential for everybody? I don't know. I'm just asking for 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: a friend, all right, I'm trying to understand. 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: I'll give you more trivia. Do you know who originally 41 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: was supposed to record Sugar Sugar? 42 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 3: The Monkeys? It was written for the monk. 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense, that kind of makes sense. 44 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: They refuse to record it. So the writers all said, 45 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: the brillsty guys, it's fine don Kirscher, we'll do it ourselves. 46 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: We don't need you. 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: So they just got a bunch of studio people, get 48 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: Ron Dante and a few others to go sing it. 49 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: There you go and friends, do you see while love other? Dave, Oh, 50 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: I could sit around with this man and have discussions 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: with him about all kinds of things, particularly dealing with 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: pop culture in the sixties and seventies, and particularly music. 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: It's something that we both share a love for. But 54 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, Dave, there ain't too much 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: love for the subject the centerate. Well, there was a 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: lot of love for our victim, a lot, and that's 57 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: evidenced in everything that came out afterwards about this. But 58 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: I got to tell you this, this individual, this monster 59 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: that committed these crimes, ain't too much love there. 60 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: Let me tell you that family members said of Samuel Holtis, 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: who is our victim, that he was a generous man 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: who often cooked meals for homeless people. He was devoted 63 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: to helping mankind. He cooked meals for homeless people. He 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: didn't give him a dollar to go to McDonald's. He didn't, 65 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: you know, he went and cooked me specifically for people 66 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: without That's the kind of person our victim is today 67 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: and when you hear what was done to him. It 68 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: happened in Elkoholma, California, which is just outside of San Diego, 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: southern California, when deputies responded to reports of a suspicious 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: death on a property. The suspicious death was that basically, 71 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: somebody tripped over a head sticking out of the dirt. 72 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 2: Is that about right, Joe? 73 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it is. And can I tell you it's 74 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: kind of getting in the wayback machine. And I think 75 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: the name of this movie is correct. There was a movie, 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: one of these horror movies, kind of schlocky kind of things, 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: but it was really popular. I think it was called 78 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Motel Hell. Came out in the eighties and it was 79 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: these people were burying people in the backyard and I 80 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: think their heads were sticking up out of the ground. 81 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: And got to tell you, Dave, when I when I 82 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: heard about this, these circumstances, and listen, the burial part 83 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: of it is the least of it. Oh yeah, and 84 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: you know this, you know this mental moron here, uh 85 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: he he didn't even have the ability to create a 86 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: really good grave, right, So he's he's doing one or 87 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: two things he's either ineffective at digging a grave or 88 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: he's a sadist, the ultimate in sadist, where he's you know, 89 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: it's almost like taunting the dead that you could be 90 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: this disrespectful to the dead. And yeah, our victim here 91 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: dave his head. He was buried so that his head 92 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: was protruding up out of the ground in the shallow grave. 93 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: Think about the effort, okay, of what you're doing a 94 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: lot of times and I don't I don't try to 95 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: get into the mind of those who would do murder. 96 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 2: But you know, oftentimes when people do a crime and 97 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: they dig a shallow grave, they put the body and 98 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: cover it up in hopes that they'll get away. But 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: this one, he went out to all the trouble to 100 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: bury the body, but make sure the head was sticking up, 101 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: so it wasn't It wasn't like he got in a hurry. 102 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: He did it on purpose. 103 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: And the thing is, in this area that we're looking 104 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: in outside of alcohol Alcoholma, California, it was a six 105 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: acre area that had a number of trailers house trailers 106 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:35,119 Speaker 2: on it and Ran Kenneth McNally Junior. He's the guy 107 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: who was living in several different trailers over a period 108 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: of time. He was not well liked, Joe. Kenneth McNally 109 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: junior had problems with everybody, it seems, but he kept 110 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: bouncing around. You know, he'd stay over here at this 111 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: trailer for a little while, and then he'd go to 112 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: another one for a while, and just continued to wear 113 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: out his welcome. But I want you to take a 114 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: look at what was taking place in the weeks before 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: Samuel Haltis at the age of fifty nine, a guy 116 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: who cooked meals for the homeless before he was killed. 117 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: Kenneth McNally Junior has a lengthy criminal history. He was 118 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: on probation for a conviction of attacking a dog with 119 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: an axe. Think about that for just a minute. It 120 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,119 Speaker 2: wasn't enough to just you know, kick a dog or something. No, No, 121 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: he attacked a dog with an axe and was convicted 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: and was on probation for that. 123 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: On his. 124 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: Post release community service. You know when you have a 125 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: probation officer, right, and he was on probation for attacking 126 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: the dog with the axe. 127 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: He had two documented attacks against his probation officer. 128 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Joe. 129 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: Now, I thought that if something went bad with your 130 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: probation officer that probably pulled your work and you pulled 131 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: your paper, but you're back in jail, right, that's what 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: I assumed happen. 133 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, back into the joint because you know, you have 134 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: to think about this is demonstrative violence, obviously, I think 135 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: that that's I'm the master of understatement today. All right, 136 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: So when you come after a parole officer like this 137 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: and you're going to attack them, I don't understand unless 138 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: it just goes to the point of, well, it's easier 139 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: just to keep him on the street because our prisons 140 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: are full, you know, we can't accommodate him. Or in 141 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: today's world with governmental oversight bosses this sort of thing. 142 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: I can imagine a world where a government supervisor would 143 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: look at a probation officer that was attacked and say, 144 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: this is probably your fault, Like this happened to you 145 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: at the hands of this person. It's not his fall. 146 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: Well he has to be exsed. 147 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 3: Let's add some more things that weren't his fault. Joe. 148 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: You know I told you that he was living in 149 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: the six acre compound with a number of different trailers. 150 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: Well he threatened one resident with a handgun. Now, remember 151 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: he's on probation for attacking a dog with an axe. 152 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: Now he's threatening a human being with a gun. He 153 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: fired sho several shots into another person's van and people 154 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: living in the same compound with him in some of 155 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: the trailers that he was living in from time to time, 156 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: and he strangled a roommate while making incoherent statements before 157 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: someone intervened. Now this is while on probation for attacking 158 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: the dog, resisting a police officer, attacking the people that 159 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: are providing him with shelter, and then the only reason 160 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: he doesn't kill this one person is because somebody got 161 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: in the middle of it and intervened, and he was 162 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: still not put back in jail. 163 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: This seems to be a theme that's running through a 164 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: lot of cases that we're covering recently. Yeah, and listen, 165 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: I know it goes without saying that this happens all 166 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,119 Speaker 1: the while. And I hate to use the term epidemic. 167 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: Epidemic is that's a term that is used without much 168 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: thought to it. You know, they will apply the term 169 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: epidemic to other events and other things that occurring that 170 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: are not There's not there's no underpinning from a scientific standpoint. 171 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: This is this is an organizational behavior problem that leads 172 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: to this. So you know, all signs point back to 173 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: those that are in charge relative to how individuals are 174 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: being handled. You know, it's it's amazing that people will 175 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: sit back and say, I can't believe this happened. Well, 176 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: you've been living in another universe, you're saying, and you 177 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: can't believe this happened. And over and over again, we 178 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: see violent offenders that are cut loose on the rest 179 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: of us that are just trying to get by, trying 180 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: to live our lives, trying to live in peace. And 181 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: yet these people go uninterdicted, and it's a constant thing. 182 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: They're always allowed, they're given more latitude, they're given more range, 183 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, to go out and bully people around, to 184 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: make their lives horrible. How many women do we talk 185 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: about on this show that are living in fear of 186 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: domestic violence all the time, and nothing ever happens relative 187 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: to the people until you know, those women, of course, 188 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: they wind up on our show because they're murder victims, 189 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: and you know, we wind up talking about some ghastly 190 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: thing that has happened to them, and the forensics is unbelievable. 191 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: You know, we sit there and you know, and we'll 192 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: stand back and we'll say, wow, this is really really horrible. Well, Holmes, 193 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,239 Speaker 1: let me tell you something horrible could have been avoided. 194 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: All right, it could have been avoided early on. But 195 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: unfortunately we handle people like this with kid gloves and 196 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: we don't want to do anything about it, or the 197 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: authorities don't want to do anything about it because they're 198 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: afraid that they're going to offend somebody, or they're afraid 199 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: that they're going to violate I don't know whatever community 200 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: norms there might be. Well, the one norm that we 201 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: have as human beings is an expectation that we're going 202 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: to be able to live a peaceful and fruitful life. 203 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure that if you're living on six 204 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: acres out outside of San Diego, you're not thinking that 205 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: you're going to be living next door to a raving 206 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: lunatic that attacks dogs with hatchets. And also you're not 207 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: going to live adjacent to somebody who, for all that 208 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: we know, was one of the most benevolent people around. 209 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: That would help the least among us, who knew that 210 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: the most benevolent could coexist in a world and in 211 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: a space with the most malevolent brother Dave. Sometimes I 212 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: sit back and I think, you know, she was. I 213 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: see these cases that we talk about, particularly from a 214 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: scientific standpoint, you think about just all of the havoc 215 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: that has been visited upon victims, and you know, it's 216 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: really easy to go through the science of it, I 217 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: think to a certain degree. It can be rather complex 218 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: many times, obviously, but the science part is the easy part. 219 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: The explaining how we wound up where we're having to 220 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: use science to explain things is the hard part to 221 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: it right, And in this particular case, this poor man 222 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: was subjected to just the ultimate in brutality day. 223 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know, we mentioned the type of man fifty 224 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: nine year old Samuel Haltus was, but the type of 225 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: man that Kenneth McNally Junior was. Well, here's what was 226 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: happening September third, twenty twenty three. Okay, we've mentioned he's 227 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: living in a compound, a six acre area with a 228 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: number of trailers where people live, and McNally has lived 229 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: amongst these people for a while. They know what kind 230 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: of person he is. This is not going to be 231 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: one of those scenes show where you're going to have 232 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: a reporter talking to a neighbor that says he. 233 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: Was such a quiet guy. I never expected anything like this. 234 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: As soon as the reporters got on, seen anyone that 235 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you, like, oh, man, we can't believe 236 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: he was walking amongst us. Kenneth McNally September third, twenty 237 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: twenty three, was terrorizing people that lived in the area, 238 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: people he would call friends or acquaintances. McNally was demanding 239 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: somebody drive him off the property, get me out of here. 240 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: They said he was acting erratically and and aggressively in 241 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: demanding somebody give him a right out of the place, 242 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: and that he was intimating holding his holding his hands 243 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: in a certain way to make them believe that he 244 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: was armed, that he was holding a weapon, that he 245 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: was willing to use said weapon to get his way. 246 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: His way being get me out of here. Now, we 247 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: don't know what was going on in his head to 248 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: make him feel like that, but we know that this 249 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: is a guy who has no boundaries, no physical boundaries, 250 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: to anything anywhere, anytime. And I gotta be honest with you, Joe, 251 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: if I was one of those people living in those 252 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: trailers in this six acre compound, I'd be afraid of McNally. 253 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 2: Kenneth McNally Junior would have frightened me because he doesn't 254 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: seem to care. You know, you can usually reason with somebody. 255 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: You can reason with animals. 256 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 3: Not this guy. He could not be reasoned with. 257 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: So September third, twenty twenty three, that is the day 258 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: that Kenneth McNally decided to kill the one person on 259 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: planet Earth that if Kenneth McNally was homeless and needed food, 260 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: Samuel Holts would have made him the meal. 261 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: He would have made the meal and fed the man. 262 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 3: But what he got. 263 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: I had to reover the police report a couple of 264 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: times show because we do have the physical reports of 265 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: what was seen, what happened, but we also have statements 266 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: made by Kenneth McNally Jor Talking about what he did. 267 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: I don't know if he was bragging or confessing or both, 268 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: but we have an idea of what he did, and 269 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: it's all bad. He Kenneth McNally Jr. Shot Samuel Holtis 270 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: in the face with a gun. He then McNally tied 271 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: an extension cord around Samuel Holtas neck. He attached the 272 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: other end of the extension cord to a pickup truck. 273 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: Kenneth McNally Junior then dragged, dragged Samuel Holtis cord wrapped 274 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: around his neck, dragging him with the truck three hundred 275 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 2: and twenty nine feet. He drug him to the area 276 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 2: where he was going to use a shallow grave to 277 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: put his body in the dirt, not all of his body, 278 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: but about seventy five eighty percent. But Joe, that's what 279 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: Kenneth McNally junior did to Samuel Haltis You already know 280 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: he left his head sticking up out of the shallow grave. 281 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 2: Now I don't know how much had because we know 282 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: that he was shot in the face, Joe, And you're 283 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 2: gonna have to shed some light on this for me 284 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: because I've been trying to figure out it was it 285 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: just the top of his head like you know, hair 286 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: or bald spot or was it his head you know, 287 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: neck out right? 288 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's that's something that's This is quite interesting 289 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: to me because there have been events over over over 290 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: time where people have literally been buried up to their necks, okay, 291 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: and it was it was kind of like a form 292 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: of torture, Uh, to do that and left alive. 293 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 3: Isn't that when the pirates used to do that on 294 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: the beach. They would. 295 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: I think that there's it's been It's been done over 296 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: multiple civilizations for a long long time. I don't know 297 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: if they'll do it in the year twenty five, twenty five, but. 298 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 3: He's in the year twenty three they did. 299 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah the year yeah, no, kidd and uh when you see, 300 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: you see what has been done to this victim. And 301 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: let's back up just just a second, because I want 302 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: to go back to the gunshot one. Yeah, I think 303 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: that that folks beloe leave that if you shoot someone 304 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: in the face that death is instantaneous. That's not the case. 305 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: I want to tell you a quick little side story here. 306 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: Actually had a guy that worked as he had been 307 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: contracted to kill to kill a family, and he shot 308 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: the father and two sons in their home, killed them 309 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: and then I guess I don't know what happened at 310 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: the end, but he took a forty five sorry caliber 311 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: handgun that he had brought to the residence inside of 312 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: a binder that had a star foam cutout where he 313 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: could put the weapon inside of the binder, and also 314 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: extra magazines, and after he had shot the father and 315 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: his two sons, killed them both. He takes the weapon 316 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: and puts it beneath his chin and pulls the trigger 317 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: and does it kill himself. And this is a forty 318 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: four caliber I'm sorry I keep saying forty four caliber, 319 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: forty five caliber Colt semi automatic pistol. He did succeed 320 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: in blowing off the lower portion of the leading portion 321 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: of his mandible, took out part of his maxilla, his nose, 322 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: and survived. I actually testified in that case, and really yeah, 323 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: I did. And the guy still still lived. He lived 324 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: through it. In an interesting little aside, while they were 325 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: doing reconstructive surgery on his face, and the reconstructive surgery 326 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: took place at Charity Hospital. Many of you guys might 327 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: remember Charity Hospital. It was the big hospital in New 328 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: Orleans got wiped out with Patrina, and they had a 329 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: plastic surgeon that was working on him. These are residents 330 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: led by a staff physician. They actually and they were 331 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: reconstructing his face and along his neck and re routing 332 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: things and all that sort of stuff they do. They 333 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: actually wound up clipping his vocal cords in there and 334 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: he didn't have the ability to talk. And to make 335 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: matters worse, He's Korean and didn't speak English, and so 336 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: it was this really bizarre case. But the reason I'm 337 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: telling you this is it's possible, and I've had it 338 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: happen on other k had a guy with a shotgun 339 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: as well, and that was shot self inflicted and didn't 340 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: die immediately wandered about. So the idea that he shot 341 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: this fellow in the face and that he automatically died 342 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: is not necessarily the case every single time. Just because 343 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: you score a head shot doesn't mean the person is 344 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: necessarily going to die. It all depends on where they're shot. 345 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: Because you can be shot in the face without it 346 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: impacting your brain. That's that's a possibility, right, And so 347 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: you have to take that into account and the fact 348 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: that beyond that level of violence that he would have 349 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: subjected this victim today, he goes and gets an electrical cord. 350 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,479 Speaker 1: Now right now, you know, I'm kind of thinking, well, 351 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: when you wrap an electric cord, because he's using he 352 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: is using the neck itself as a point of contact. 353 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: So if he is using that as a point of contact, 354 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: he's anchoring this. It's essentially literature, right, right, He's essentially 355 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: tying this off around his neck. Did you know that 356 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: you're going to have features on this guy's neck that 357 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: will approximate what hanging would look like, because with this 358 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: you would actually get and you and I have talked 359 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: about tinting feature in the past. We've talked about it 360 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: with Epstein over and over and over again. Right, and 361 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: you get that presentation that goes up in the back. 362 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: It sharply goes up behind the ears. In a dragon 363 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: case like this, where you have an individual that is 364 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: anchored by their neck, you're actually going to get this 365 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: because the weight is pulling against the rear of the truck. 366 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: This is absolutely horrific because you're talking about this individual 367 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: having been shot, tied off by the neck and the 368 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: other end of the cord being tied to essentially the 369 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: bumper or the trailer hitch, and then being drug three 370 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty nine feet. Now I am imagining right now, 371 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: I'm imagining right now that the surface that he was 372 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: drug over is probably not an improved surface. Okay, So 373 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: his body is going to be making contact with the 374 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: underlying road surface. So if you're talking about even if 375 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 1: it's it's fine sand, all right, that's still going to 376 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: ubraid the back when we see people that have been 377 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: drug by vehicles, you'll get these kind of long curve 378 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: what will refer to as curve linear abrasions that depended 379 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: upon the side that they're on. Let's say they're on 380 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: the anterior side, you know, on the chest and the abdomen, 381 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: you'll still get them. If they're wearing clothing that will 382 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: add some level of protection. But even clothing gets torn 383 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: away and you can actually see that presented at autopsy. 384 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: It'll catch hold of rocks, this sort of thing. If 385 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: they're on the back, same thing, you'll get these curveliney 386 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: or superficial marks to be really red. There won't be 387 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of blood unless they go over like 388 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: really sharp rocks, which I've actually seen happen where you know, 389 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: the rocks acts like they're penetrating particular areas. What's really 390 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: haunting is when you get a body into the moor 391 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: that has been drug over surface like this. And remember 392 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: we take the bodies out of the backs at the autopsies, right, 393 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: and I have distinct memories of this, taking bodies out 394 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: of bag that had gravel all of the body and 395 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: just for a moment, you can hear that gravel striking 396 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: the stainless steel surface of the table or the tray 397 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: you know, where you're doing autopsy, and it really it 398 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: really captures you for a moment. You know, you hear 399 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: that you're kind of connected to that event. So the 400 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: layers of terror and horror that you have here are 401 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: pretty significant. I think one of the big prevailing questions 402 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: here about these injuries that he has sustained. One of 403 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: the things that we would want to know in this 404 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: particular case is was he still alive as he was 405 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: being drugged down this road? Well, Dave, just just the 406 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: whole of this, this action that started three hundred over 407 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: three hundred feet away, that's only part of the tail here, right, Yeah, 408 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: from a processing standpoint, we still have where his remains 409 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: wound up. 410 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: I want to ask you a question about when you 411 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: were talking about how getting a body on the table 412 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: and having you know, sand and grit, when when you 413 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 2: have a body that's been drug and then put into 414 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 2: a shallow grave and. 415 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: When you're on. 416 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: The scene, I'm trying to figure out in my head 417 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 2: first responders show up. I mean they're called because well, 418 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: we've got a body. They're going to determine that the 419 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 2: person is dead fairly quickly. Are they going to dig 420 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 2: that person out before to see if they can render eight? 421 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 2: Are they going to okay, so they're going to term 422 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: this person is dead their head sticking up. But I 423 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: mean because look, man, you could be beaten to a 424 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: pulp and still be alive. 425 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 3: We have seen you. 426 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: You could know and this, yeah, this goes to and 427 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: I've been threatening that we were going to do an 428 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: episode on the seven cardinal signs of death, but this 429 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: would go to one of those initial things that we 430 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: would look for. We're gonna check for uh, for the 431 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: status of the eyes to see if they're going to 432 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: respond to light, right, and something that you see people 433 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: do on television and these sorts of things. Right, if 434 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, if the pupils are blown out and non 435 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: reactive to light, and you can also access one of 436 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: the strongest pulse points in the body, which is going 437 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: to be the crot even if you have to go 438 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: subsurface slightly to feel to palpate for this, and they 439 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: would they would probably you know, there's actually you know 440 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: we talk about responding to pain stimulus, right, that's one 441 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: of the seven cardinal signs. When we talk about responding 442 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: to pain stimulus. Generally, there's like a sternll rub if 443 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: you've ever had that, if you've ever had an EMT, 444 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: try to get your attention. They'll do that. Did you 445 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: know that there is a way to do pain stimulus 446 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: and get them to respond. And remember how I talked 447 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: about the eye to see if the pupil was blown. 448 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: There's also something else you can do. Yeah, if you 449 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: want to try to do this, see if you can 450 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: touch your own eyeball without blinking. And one of the 451 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: things that happens that will be done by some people 452 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: is that they will attempt There are clinicians out there 453 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: that will attempt to touch the eye of an individual 454 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: if they have questions as to whether or not they're alive. Now, 455 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: that's not one hundred percent guaranteed, because you can have 456 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: brain brain injuries where you won't have this responsiveness with 457 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: the eyes, but it's just kind of a confirmatory you 458 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: reach and if they don't react, if they don't blink 459 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 1: or retract, that's one of the boxes that is ticked. 460 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: And you couple that with checking for a created pulse, 461 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: then you know, right right then you're in the you're 462 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, so e m ts. And granted it's 463 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: a very bizarre situation, but EMTs roll up on bizarre 464 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: situations all the time. People don't think about all the 465 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: folks that are penned in cars, you know, or that yeah, 466 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: impaled on a fence. That does happen. It happens frequently, 467 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: more frequently than people think. 468 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:24,959 Speaker 2: Uh. 469 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: Uh, people that are trapped inside of uh debris where 470 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: house has collapsed. There's all manner. There are people out 471 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: there that have been shot multiple times and you might 472 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: walk up on them and think that they're dead. Uh, 473 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: but they still have you know, kind of agonal respirations. Uh, 474 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: there's still life there. So they're going to go through this. 475 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: But once the e mts have determined, look, this guy's buried, 476 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: we see that there's some kind of trauma going on here. 477 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: We're visualizing in this case if his head is sufficient 478 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: and Deepending upon on where the entrance wound is, we 479 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: see he's got a gunshot wound to the face. 480 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 3: Well, and that's okay. 481 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: The call that came in at three point thirty pm 482 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: on September third, twenty twenty three was a. 483 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 3: Suspicious death, all right. 484 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: That was the call that was made now, and that's 485 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: why I was kind of curious, because I know that 486 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: people survive odd things. So somebody made the call suspicious death. 487 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 2: Now I want to make sure I get this exactly right, 488 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: because this is what officers found. Okay, San Diego County 489 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: Sheriff's deputies arrive on the scene. A witness noticed a 490 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: human head protruding from the dirt and told them. When 491 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: they get there, they found halt Is partially buried in 492 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 2: a shallow grave. And they found the extension cord was 493 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: wrapped around his neck and it hadn't been removed. 494 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: Okay, he. 495 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: Still had the cord around his neck. Joe, he's buried 496 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: his head sticking out. But a gunshot one into his 497 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 2: face was obvious as well. So now I'm thinking he's 498 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 2: buried from here up, well here up the extension cord 499 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: around his neck, so they could see like from here up. 500 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: This gets worse as you look into it. That officers, 501 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: the deputies on the scene, they're able to ascertain that 502 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 2: he arrived in this place where his body was placed 503 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 2: in the shallow grave by dragging, you know how, they 504 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 2: could see the extension cord drag marks of the body. 505 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: Yea and a truck that had blood. The drag marks 506 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: even led to another location, so he wasn't shot in 507 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: the face, you know, and buried right there. They were 508 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: able to quickly determine that Samuel Halters was shot in 509 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: the face somewhere else, and as they followed the drag trail, 510 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: they found the spot where a lot of coagulated blood 511 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: was there and it's like, okay, he was shot here, 512 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 2: but then he was tied up drug to hear and 513 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: he wasn't even buried completely. He was buried so he 514 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: could be found in this most heinous of ways. That's 515 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: what deputies saw. This is why I I don't think 516 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: people understand what some law enforcement individuals go through on 517 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: their daily life. I'm in fo honest with you, Joe 518 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: this right now talking. This is my crappy day at work. 519 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 2: You know, their crappy day at work that day was 520 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: being called to a death where a nice guy's head 521 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 2: is sticking out above the ground. He's been a face 522 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: blown away, and there's a electro cord tied around his 523 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: neck like a noose, and he was drug to that 524 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: location before he was buried. 525 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 3: That's what their crappy day at work looked. 526 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: Like, well, yeah, and it's it's a horrible thing to 527 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: have to go out and reconstruct this and try to 528 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: understand what happened. But here we are, and it's one 529 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: of the things that we have to do, it seems. 530 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: So let me tell you about these drag marks, which 531 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting. Uh, one thing you're going to 532 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: be looking for and a bit several pieces of the 533 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: evidence here. If you have an individual that is being 534 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: drug behind a vehicle and you've got tire tracks, so 535 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: you've got these bilateral tracks that are running in a 536 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: in a specific direction. Correct, Okay, So they're going up 537 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: a hill down a road. Okay, Now they are making 538 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: impressions on the soil surface. Let's say it's soft. It's 539 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: a soft surface, and they're making making their own impression 540 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: going up the road well in tandem and running behind. 541 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: Depended upon how much slacked was in that extension cord 542 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: and to what length, there will be concurrent drag marks 543 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: being generated by the body that is actually going in 544 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: some spots. In some spots it's going down the mid 545 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: line of these tracks right in the center. Now you 546 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: can what's interesting if you want to try to understand 547 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: which vehicle did this, and scientifically, you have to demonstrate 548 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: this in court. You can't just say yeah, it was 549 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: this vehicle. You would have to go in and first off, 550 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: you would have to measure. You would have to get 551 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 1: an idea of the tire tread pattern itself. Entire tread 552 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: patterns are just like shoe patterns. Okay, So think about 553 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: the tires on your car. The longer you use them, 554 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: the more worn they wouldcome. And you have to get 555 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: new tires, right, Okay, so let's just say let's just 556 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: pull Let's just say they're good ears. 557 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 3: Okay, having tread like if I mean, yeah. 558 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: They make a very distinctive pattern. Yeah, because you'll have intermitte. 559 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: You'll have intermitte tread patterns relative to wear. And let's 560 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: say you have brand a good year and you get 561 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: a set on your brand new truck and you drive 562 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: it for a month. Well, I go out and buy 563 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: the same truck, the same truck by the same tires 564 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: or maybe it's what's called hang on, let me get 565 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: quite OA, which is called original equipment. That's a term 566 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: that she used in forensics, like OA. Those are the 567 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: tires that the truck comes with from the dealership that 568 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, if Goodyear has a contract with Ford or Chevy, 569 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: whoever it is, they supply those tires and you can 570 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: go out and customize them and get whatever kind of 571 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: tires you want, you know, but that's the OA. Well, 572 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: if I go out and I order the same truck 573 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: as you, you've been driving yours for a month, Well, 574 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: our tread pattern, even though it's the same tires, same 575 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: wheelbase of the truck, they're going to look different because 576 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 1: we drive different we gover different surfaces. So those treadmarks 577 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: are unique to that vehicle. So when you marry that up, 578 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: when you marry that up, that's going to be something 579 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: that's demonstrative. Right then when you take the victims back 580 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: or his front or his side and you compare it 581 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: to the marks in the soil. One of the things 582 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: that they will ask the pathologists on the stand, you know, 583 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: doctor Jones, do these marks on the body do they 584 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: appear consistent with an individual having been drug behind a 585 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 1: vehicle for three over three hundred feet? And we actually 586 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: have pictures here, we're showing the pictures in court. We 587 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: have pictures of what are being called drag marks on 588 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: the ground. Does what you're scene right here. Compare to 589 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: Exhibit one A, which is an image of the victim's 590 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: back at autopsy. Yes, the doctor says, yes, within a 591 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: reasonable scientific certainty, that would compare well to this. And 592 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: then they'll say, now, could this particular surface create these 593 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: kinds of injuries. It's a core surface, it's not improved, 594 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: it's got loose gravel, it's got sand, it's composed of debris. 595 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: And doctor Jones would say, yes, that type of surface 596 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: would in fact create, within a reasonable scientific certainty, these 597 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: kinds of injuries. So all the while, when they're out 598 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: there and they're having to behold all this horror that 599 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: you were just discussing just second ago, a day in 600 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: the life, right, they're having to go back and reconstruct 601 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: this from where it started. My suspicion is is that wherever, 602 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: wherever this gentleman was shot in the face, there is 603 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: going to be a focal area of blood there. There 604 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: will probably be bits of biological material dispersed throughout those 605 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: dragon marks. You have to look careful for him though, 606 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: And then wherever the body came to rest, because the 607 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: body could still be seeping blood at that point. Top. 608 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if he survived the dragging, but even 609 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: if he didn't, the body still will probably seek blood 610 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: or will seek blood from injuries that might be caused 611 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: by the dragging. You can have injuries like the well 612 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: the primary injury is this gsw to the face where 613 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: it could be seeping from there as well. So you'll 614 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: have these kind of beginning points and ending points, which 615 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: he's kind of fascinating scientifically. 616 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 2: You mentioned that just getting shot in the face is 617 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 2: not and it's not enough to say that's what killed him. 618 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 2: Would you be able to determine if that if that 619 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 2: was you know, the gunshot to the face, or was 620 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: he strangled? Was that the electric cord around his neck? 621 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,919 Speaker 2: Is that what killed him? He strangled by being towed 622 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 2: around him? 623 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the marks on the neck are 624 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,720 Speaker 1: going to be as close as you're going to get, brother, Okay, 625 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: And this is why we have to make an assumption. 626 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: You know what they say about as soon, but we 627 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 1: have to make an assumption here that if in fact 628 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,919 Speaker 1: he was not dead with a gunshot wound, we would 629 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: look for indwelling hemorrhage in here. Because I guarantee you 630 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: dollars to donuts through here through the neck, the soft tissue, 631 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: the strap muscles, there is going If he is a lot, 632 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: there will be hemorrhage here. Okay, okay, Now he can 633 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: just have agonal respirations. But if this is traumatized to 634 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: the point where these vessels are disrupted in any way, 635 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: you will have hemorrhage to this created here. They'll bleed 636 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: out into the interstitial tissue, the muscle tissue, all this 637 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,399 Speaker 1: sort of things, and that will be existing now if 638 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: he is shot. If he is shot and he dies 639 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: at that moment in time, okay, the gunshot wound, you'll 640 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: have marks on the neck, but they will not be hemorrhagic. 641 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: You're not going to have like, you'll have a furrow, 642 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: but the furrow is not going to have any associated hemorrhage. 643 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: Then you reflect or dissect the neck and you're not 644 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: going to have any hemorrhage in here. Does that mean 645 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: that you're that the net cannot be traumatized, No, it doesn't. 646 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: You can still have like, you can still have the 647 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: larynx being fractured. Possibility though remote depend upon how up 648 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: it went. You know what I'm gonna say here, You 649 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: could fracture the hyoid if it slips up high enough 650 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: because there's so much force being put behind it, and 651 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: it goes so high, you don't know how secure the 652 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: knot may have been. If it's secured in a one 653 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 1: focal point like that, it's not going to move a lot. 654 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: And it all depends a lot of it depends on 655 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: at this pace at which the vehicle is being driven. 656 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: And one other thing. If this guy is swerving back 657 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: and forth, keep this in mind. The body swerving back. 658 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 2: And he was just so you know, that was one 659 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 2: of the eyewitness accounts that he was driving erratically with 660 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 2: the body behind him. 661 00:40:59,000 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 3: Believable. 662 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: And so you're gonna have debris, you're gonna have vegetation 663 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: on sides of the road. Perhaps that will be disrupted. 664 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: They can call that drag marks as well. If let's 665 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: just say that he goes over vegetation, okay, any of 666 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: the local flora, if you will. He's still wearing clothes, 667 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: You'll see. It's just like when we were kids, you know, 668 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: and we would fall in the grass and you know, 669 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: our seious tough skin jeans that we would wear and 670 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: Mom would have to get the grass staines out of 671 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: our knees, right, and so does grass stains or that debris, 672 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: whether it's cracked up wood or bits of grass or anything, 673 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 1: that's still going to be on him. And that's something 674 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: that we use in road investigations as well, where we 675 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 1: have pedestrians struck by vehicles, individuals that are being dragged 676 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: by vehicles, will look and see if anybody's gone off 677 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: of the road with this while they're dragging the person 678 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: they've been knocked off into vegetation is going to be 679 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: critical as well. 680 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 3: All right, well, there are a couple of things we have. 681 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 2: Now you've gotten us from finding the body, determining how 682 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 2: this individual died cause and then one other thing came 683 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 2: into this, and that was before it got to trial. 684 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 2: Mister McNally decided to confess. He gave multiple stories about 685 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: what actually took place. One witness said that McNally described 686 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 2: shooting Samuel Haltis, dragging him with a noose wrapped around 687 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 2: his neck, and burying him. That was confession number one. 688 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 2: Confession number two witnesses observed McNally driving Haltis truck erradically 689 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: before parking it near the grave where he buried mister Holtis. 690 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 2: And then we have the third witness. Now, this witness 691 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 2: did not come forward at first, Joe, Remember how I 692 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 2: told you this guy was kind of terrorizing everyone in 693 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 2: this little compound. This witness did not come forward until 694 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 2: months later, but this witness provided a detail account of 695 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: what he saw he or she saw. 696 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 3: Okay stated that. 697 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 2: McNally shot Haltis and was witnessed by this person. This 698 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 2: person witnessed McNally tying the electrical cord around mister Halti's neck. 699 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: He witnessed McNally tying the cord to the truck and 700 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 2: then watched him as he drove three hundred and twenty 701 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 2: nine feet dragging mister Holton's body to the burial site. 702 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 2: Those were the three eyewitness accounts or stories of confession 703 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 2: that were told to individuals who later testified in court 704 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 2: at the trial of Kenneth McNally Junior. So there was 705 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 2: a lot of evidence going into this show. 706 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there would have been, you know, relative to 707 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: the grave once once this gentleman's body was removed or 708 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: extricated from that site, and it froze that moment in 709 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,759 Speaker 1: time for the investigators that were out there so that 710 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: they could see, you know, what had what was the 711 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: end result of all of the horror that this man 712 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: had reaped, you know, over this entire community, and Lord 713 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: only knows how many other people in his life over 714 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: the years that he was willing to do violence to. 715 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,720 Speaker 1: And it's a very sad end because the thing about 716 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,359 Speaker 1: is is that a light has been snuffed out in 717 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: an otherwise kind of dark, dark world that the light 718 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: went into for a long period of time. But yet 719 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: another light shines on. It shines on in a prison 720 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: in California where this individual has been sentenced to two 721 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen years. Let's see how violent and intimidating 722 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: he is in that environment where he doesn't have a gun, 723 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: he does don't have a truck or an extension cord, 724 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: he doesn't have a shovel. Let's see how that works. 725 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,760 Speaker 3: Out for him. 726 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.