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Speaker 1: Coming up on You Need Therapy. You're going to learn

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Speaker 1: like three vocab words in a day, right or you

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Speaker 1: might learn how to conjugate one verb. You're not speaking

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Speaker 1: fluent French overnight. The same way with money, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take really really small steps to better our money.

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Speaker 1: Right now. I started to realize that not being an

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Speaker 1: expert isn't a liability, it's a real gift. If we

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Speaker 1: don't know something about ourselves at this point in our life,

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Speaker 1: it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can

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Speaker 1: die before you die, then you can really live. There's

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Speaker 1: a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And

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Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgment mental

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Speaker 1: about yourself, others, and the world around you. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy, Hi guys, and welcome to a new

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Speaker 1: episode of NIED Therapy podcast. And before we get into

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Speaker 1: the exciting stuff that I have for you today. Quick

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Speaker 1: reminder that although this podcast is hosted by a therapist,

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Speaker 1: it does not serve as a substitute or replacement for

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Speaker 1: any mental health services. However, we always hope that it

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Speaker 1: helps you in whatever way you need on whatever journey

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Speaker 1: you're on at the moment. Now, you guys are going

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Speaker 1: to be happily surprised by today's guest. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Tory Dunlap, and I have been waiting patiently waiting to

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Speaker 1: talk to her since I heard her as a guest

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Speaker 1: on another podcast and quickly became a huge fan of her.

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Speaker 1: What she stands for and all of the things that

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Speaker 1: she does and all of the content that she puts

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Speaker 1: out into the world. She's not only brilliant, but she's

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Speaker 1: on a mission that I think about ninety nine percent

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Speaker 1: of people listening right now can get behind. And after

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Speaker 1: saving successfully one hundred thousand dollars at the age of

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Speaker 1: twenty five, which is in my head, very young to

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Speaker 1: do that, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing to

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Speaker 1: fight for women's financial rights, and now she has a

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Speaker 1: multi million dollar company, a top charting podcast called Financial Feminist,

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Speaker 1: which I highly recommend. And a New York Times best

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Speaker 1: selling book called Financial Feminist, which I also highly recommend.

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Speaker 1: I would call this episode where I have Tory on

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Speaker 1: as a guest, as an intro to her. And if

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Speaker 1: you're sitting there wondering, Okay, she sounds cool about what

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Speaker 1: does money have to do with therapy? Well, literally everything.

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Speaker 1: There are so many emotions, feelings, narratives, and plenty of

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Speaker 1: trauma that shapes and directs how we view our money,

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Speaker 1: how we talk about money, and how we allow ourselves

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Speaker 1: to spend or not spend our money. So you are

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Speaker 1: going to be, like I said before, happily surprised by

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Speaker 1: today's guest, and it might pop up some things that

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Speaker 1: you didn't even realize. We're swarming around in your body

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Speaker 1: and in your head. So if you listen to it

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Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, I want more of this, I

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Speaker 1: need more of whatever she's putting out into the world,

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Speaker 1: you can read her book, you can listen to her podcast,

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Speaker 1: and you can follow her on Instagram. I have linked

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Speaker 1: everything to connect with her and find her on the internet.

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Speaker 1: In the show notes, her Instagram name is her first

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Speaker 1: one hundred K, so it's at her first one zero

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Speaker 1: zero O K. But again that's all linked in the

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Speaker 1: show notes for you, So how about we just get

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Speaker 1: into it. Here is my conversation with the wonderful, brilliant, smart,

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Speaker 1: very helpful Tory Dunlap. All right, guys, we have Tory

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Speaker 1: Dunlap here, who I've been patiently waiting to talk to

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Speaker 1: IM assuming some of our listeners know who you are,

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Speaker 1: but I would love for you to give us a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a who am I and I do

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Speaker 1: also want to know how did I get to be

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Speaker 1: doing what I'm doing? Sure, thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Of course, my name is Tory. I am the founder

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Speaker 1: of her First hundred K, which is a money and

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Speaker 1: career platform for women. I believe I was put on

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Speaker 1: this earth to fight for women's financial rights. So I

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Speaker 1: help women all over the world save money, payoff debt,

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Speaker 1: start investing, negotiate their salaries, start a business. I get

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Speaker 1: to pinch myself every time I say this. I am

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Speaker 1: a New York Times bestselling author of a book called

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Speaker 1: Financial Feminist. I also host my own podcast called Financial Feminist,

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Speaker 1: and we have a community now of over three million people,

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Speaker 1: mostly women, learning how to navigate money to the best

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Speaker 1: of their ability. To not only work to change their lives,

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Speaker 1: but to also start changing the world. My impetus in

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Speaker 1: this work, or kind of how I got started, was

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Speaker 1: I had a great financial education growing up for my parents,

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Speaker 1: and I thought everybody knows how to manage credit cards correctly,

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Speaker 1: and everybody knows how to save money, and of course

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Speaker 1: realize that quickly that that was not the case. And

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Speaker 1: I was the friend all of my friends were coming

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Speaker 1: to for advice and guidance about money. I am twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: I graduated college in twenty sixteen, literally like five months

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Speaker 1: before Donald Trump got elected, and I was coming into

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Speaker 1: womanhood and coming into adulthood, I think, in a very

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Speaker 1: different country than a lot of us expected, and I

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Speaker 1: was trying to figure out who who I was, what

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Speaker 1: was my identity, what was you know, what was I

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Speaker 1: all about? And it really kind of radicalized me in

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Speaker 1: a way. And I realized, through my own life and

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Speaker 1: my own you know, financial foundation, that when I had money,

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Speaker 1: I had choices. When I had money, I had the

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Speaker 1: ability to leave situations I did not want to be

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Speaker 1: in anymore. When I had money, I had the ability

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Speaker 1: to travel, or to start a business, or to choose

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Speaker 1: to rent. Even though buying a house was more affordable,

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Speaker 1: or choosing to buy a house as even though like

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Speaker 1: I had all of the options that opened up to me,

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Speaker 1: donate to causes I believed in. Right, like everything opened

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Speaker 1: up to me. I majored in organizational communication and theater

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Speaker 1: in college. Being a finance expert was not the plan.

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Speaker 1: But I was really realized that, you know, this whole

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Speaker 1: idea of confidence and worth for women comes back to

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Speaker 1: managing money, and when you have money, you have those choices.

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Speaker 1: And so I started the blog that later became her

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Speaker 1: first hundred K December of twenty sixteen. And now we're

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Speaker 1: this global, multimillion dollar company. And also this movement that

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Speaker 1: is really focused on bettering women's finances in order to

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Speaker 1: not only change their lives and to change their communities,

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Speaker 1: but to start changing the systems that exist. Okay, so one,

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Speaker 1: I was very like the part about your major, that's

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Speaker 1: very interesting. I love that, not funny. Also the fact

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Speaker 1: that you grew up thinking everybody had this awareness of

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Speaker 1: money and how to save it, spend it, use it.

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Speaker 1: And something that came up for me as you were

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Speaker 1: saying that is I grew up very different. I knew nothing,

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Speaker 1: and it was like a joke of like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to do money. What is it that's the

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Speaker 1: more common one hundred percent? Yeah. So when I went

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Speaker 1: to grad school, I got a job which I thought

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Speaker 1: I was like so rich and I could barely really

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Speaker 1: afford rent. But to me that was really cool. But

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Speaker 1: I got this job, and in my head, I've always

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Speaker 1: wanted to be like a private practice therapist who just

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Speaker 1: saw clients outpatient, but I was working in a treatment center,

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Speaker 1: and there's risk in private practice because you have to build. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I told myself when I graduated, You're going to work

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Speaker 1: this job and then when you get married, then you

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Speaker 1: can go after the job you want. And what you

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Speaker 1: just said when you're talking about money gives you options,

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Speaker 1: It gives you choices, like it's an empowering thing. I

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Speaker 1: learned that I didn't have to do that, but I

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Speaker 1: would have waited if certain things didn't happen in my life.

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Speaker 1: And just that mindset, I know that so many people

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Speaker 1: have that mindset of when I get married, I can

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Speaker 1: do that, or when I find if I'm in a

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Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship, when I find this man who he'll take

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Speaker 1: care of these things, and I don't the perfect job, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: then when I make more money than I'll start figuring

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Speaker 1: this stuff out. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about the reliance

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Speaker 1: on men. First. One, we think, you know it's feminists, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty three, right, Like, we've we've moved past this.

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Speaker 1: We have not, truly, we have not, And that's not

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Speaker 1: anybody's fault. That's a society built on patriarchy, right, that's

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Speaker 1: a society built on believing. And you know you were

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Speaker 1: telling me before that you listen to my interview on

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Speaker 1: Man enough, right, Like, there's so much conversation right now

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Speaker 1: about masculinity and what it means to be a man,

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Speaker 1: but also how patriarchy affects both or any gender. Right,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say both gender, excuse me, but it's really

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Speaker 1: when you look at when you look at this dynamic

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Speaker 1: in a heterosexual relationship, both parties still expect men to

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Speaker 1: handle the money. The day to day goes to the woman, right,

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Speaker 1: the like budgeting and the coupon clipping and the grocery shopping, right,

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Speaker 1: But the wealth building is handled by men. And I

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Speaker 1: talk about this more in my book Financial Feminist. Literally,

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Speaker 1: it's like the entire thesis of it is that when

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Speaker 1: we look at advice for women about saving money, it

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Speaker 1: is about deprivation. It is about spend less. Right, It's like,

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Speaker 1: here are five meals you can make for five dollars.

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Speaker 1: And also, this frivolous spending you're doing is the reason

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Speaker 1: you're not rich. Frivolous is the label that they use,

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Speaker 1: but really they're talking about these innately feminine purchases like

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Speaker 1: lattes and manicures and handbags, golf clubs at NFL season

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Speaker 1: tickets are not the things that are frivolous, right, The

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Speaker 1: frivolous things are innately feminine. So we're told to shrink ourselves, right,

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Speaker 1: deprive yourself, and that's how you build wealth. And that's

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Speaker 1: not how you build wealth, by the way, just the

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Speaker 1: you know, the numbers on that do not make sense,

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Speaker 1: and you'll end up fucking hating your life. The flip side, right,

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Speaker 1: is that men are told by real estate, invest in

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Speaker 1: the stock market, get a better paying job, bring in

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Speaker 1: that bonus. Right, And we've also told men that their

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Speaker 1: job to society is to provide for themselves and for

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Speaker 1: their families. So when we do have women who are

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Speaker 1: financially confident, men and do not understand how to not

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Speaker 1: see that as a threat to themselves. And again, it's

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Speaker 1: not men's faults, it's not women's faults, not anybody's fault.

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Speaker 1: It's the realization that, like we have been conditioned to

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Speaker 1: believe certain narratives about money, men are providers. Men can

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Speaker 1: unabashedly pursue wealth and are applauded for it. Women cannot

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Speaker 1: pursue wealth. We must tax ourselves. We constantly have to

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Speaker 1: think about who else can we prioritize over ourselves. The

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Speaker 1: pursuit of money is bad because everybody else needs it

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Speaker 1: more than I do, and somebody else can handle that.

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Speaker 1: The truth is, it's like no one's coming to save us.

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Speaker 1: We have to figure out our own shit. That's why

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Speaker 1: I'm here. That's why many people are here to guide

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Speaker 1: you when it comes to that. But all of these

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Speaker 1: narratives have been ingrained in us from literally jump like

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Speaker 1: as children, and if we don't work to unpack them,

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Speaker 1: we're in the kind of scenario where it's just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll just wait. I'll wait until I get married and

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Speaker 1: then everything will get figured out. Yeah, and you know

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Speaker 1: what just popped up for me when you were saying

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Speaker 1: that too is I'm probably going to say something then

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Speaker 1: that later I'm gonna be like, oh, I don't wish

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that or say that. But I recently

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Speaker 1: bought this bag that I really wanted. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: like that. Sorry, I'm like, I'm putting my coach hat.

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Speaker 1: Was okay, this is the problem. I like slept on it.

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Speaker 1: I how to make sure I really wanted it was

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Speaker 1: the right one, and I was I wasn't. I did.

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Speaker 1: I did a little bit, but I wasn't as excited

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Speaker 1: as I really wanted to be because I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was being wasteful. Yeah, I felt guilty. I was

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Speaker 1: like embarrassed. And I can do this for you as

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Speaker 1: a therapist. And please know that I'm doing this with

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Speaker 1: all of the love and understanding. I want listeners to

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Speaker 1: hear what just happened is you said I bought a bag,

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Speaker 1: and then you you you said the laundry list of

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Speaker 1: reasons of why you deserved it, right as opposed to like,

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Speaker 1: I just did it. Men don't have to couch shit, right,

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Speaker 1: They're just like if a man shows up, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm posted a photo on Instagram of him and a

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Speaker 1: rolex on the golf course. The comments from other men

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Speaker 1: and from women are like, you're doing well for yourself, cool,

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Speaker 1: Rolex bro right. But the comments to women if they

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Speaker 1: buy a designer d us, if they buy anything that's

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Speaker 1: deemed again frivolous. And I put that in quotes, it's

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Speaker 1: suddenly like you're being wasteful. You could have donated that money.

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Speaker 1: Is that Daddy's money? And also we then have to

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Speaker 1: couch it. We have to be like, well, I thought

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Speaker 1: a long time and I saved my money, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to use it in these ways. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: the dress was on sale, right, And I literally talk

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Speaker 1: about this with my friends. Victoria Garrick Brown, who was

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Speaker 1: going through this, she called me and she was like,

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Speaker 1: I am about to buy this really expensive dress from

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Speaker 1: my bridle shower and I'm afraid that people are going

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Speaker 1: to be pissed. And I'm like, you know, if Max,

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Speaker 1: her now husband, bought a Rolex like, he wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: to couch it, he wouldn't have to make excuses. And

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Speaker 1: that's just like, that's what I'm talking about. It's just

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Speaker 1: the difference in how we view men with money versus

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Speaker 1: women with money. It's just so interesting and then how

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Speaker 1: we feel ourselves where we're like, holy shit, I can't

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Speaker 1: just say I want this thing and that I bought

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Speaker 1: this thing. I either have to justify it to myself,

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Speaker 1: where I feel like I have to justify it to

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Speaker 1: other people. And then this beautiful thing that's supposed to

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Speaker 1: bring me joy and feel accomplished makes me feel like

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Speaker 1: shit because I feel guilty about it. Uh. I hate that.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm also thinking with that bag, I was

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Speaker 1: so terrified that like this was going to like ruin

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Speaker 1: my financial future, which like it's not going to, but

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Speaker 1: I it was so hard for me to understand that

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Speaker 1: I could afford that and it was okay, And I

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Speaker 1: recently got engaged and we're planning a wedding and everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, we can't do it. I really want

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Speaker 1: and we can. But it's that ingrained fear that like,

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Speaker 1: even though factually this makes sense, they're still a part

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Speaker 1: of me that's like, this is going to create doom

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Speaker 1: and gloom and you shouldn't do this thing. So I

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Speaker 1: really hate that. Is that What you think is one

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Speaker 1: of the major differences in just how specifically women and

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Speaker 1: men look at money and use money and think about

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Speaker 1: money because in my head, I just never thought about it,

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Speaker 1: and if I do think about it, it's like, don't

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Speaker 1: spend it, and you won't understand any of this anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: first of all, congrats on your engagement, and I hope

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Speaker 1: that you would get some a point where you can't

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Speaker 1: spend the money on the things that you love. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go way back and again as a therapist.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll appreciate this. This all starts again like in childhood,

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Speaker 1: and I spend the entire first chapter of my book

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Speaker 1: talking about the emotions and the psychology of money because

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Speaker 1: I cannot teach you how to budget. I cannot teach

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Speaker 1: you how to get off, get out of debt until

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Speaker 1: you start to realize what sort of narratives you're believing,

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Speaker 1: how you're sabotaging yourself, and really just how to learning

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Speaker 1: how to give yourself grace around learning this new skill,

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Speaker 1: because you are Money is a new skill. It's not

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Speaker 1: an identity. It's not like I'm good with money or

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Speaker 1: I'm bad with money, and that's the end all, be all.

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Speaker 1: It's just like learning Italian or learning to play the piano,

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Speaker 1: like it is a new skill. So way back in childhood.

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Speaker 1: If we look at the toys that were given two kids,

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Speaker 1: and again I'm going to use a very gender binary

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Speaker 1: thing here between girls and boys. Boys were given legos, trucks,

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Speaker 1: like things to build, things to create. Right, boys were

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Speaker 1: told that they're like contribution or that they're the thing

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Speaker 1: to be lauded and praised. Was their mind? Right? Was

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Speaker 1: their ability? Like their ingenuity? Right? So like create things

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Speaker 1: and to be creative? What are women or girls given dolls? Right?

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Speaker 1: Girls are given dolls, They're given easy bake ovens, they're

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Speaker 1: giving bridal veils. We are taught, even as a two

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Speaker 1: year old you know, child, that this is our contribution

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Speaker 1: to society. This is our worth, this is our value.

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Speaker 1: Isn't how we give to others. It is crazy to

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Speaker 1: me that we give a child, literally another child to

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Speaker 1: take care of, right, Like we give a two year

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Speaker 1: old kid a doll and say like here, mother, this doll.

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Speaker 1: Crazy to me. And so we grow up as girls

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Speaker 1: and as women thinking my again, my worth and my

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Speaker 1: contribution to society is and what I can give to others. Now,

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Speaker 1: that is a beautiful, altruistic thing. That's why I love

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Speaker 1: being a woman. Is like I am always conscious of

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Speaker 1: people's feelings. I'm conscious of, like my impact on people,

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Speaker 1: my impact on everything like that is. I do not

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Speaker 1: want that to stop. But again, we're not demanding that

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Speaker 1: of our boys and of our men in the same way.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to money, we are told to

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Speaker 1: be altruistic at a young age, and then that altruism

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Speaker 1: is weaponized the moment we start becoming financially stable. Right,

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Speaker 1: so the moment you do decide to purchase that bag,

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Speaker 1: or you do decide no, I'm actually going to negotiate

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Speaker 1: my salary because I'm not getting compensated fairly, or you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to get out of debt and I want

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Speaker 1: to better my life. I want to take that trip, right,

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Speaker 1: I want to do this thing. What happens, Oh you're

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Speaker 1: a gold digger. Oh you should just be grateful for

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Speaker 1: the opportunities you have. Oh why aren't you donating more?

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you donating that money. The weaponization of our

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Speaker 1: altruism happens because we are no longer controllable. We are

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Speaker 1: no longer controllable as women when we have our own money.

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Speaker 1: The patriarchy no longer controls us, The systems no longer

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Speaker 1: control us. Right, we get to leave relationship, ships, or

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Speaker 1: jobs or situations because we're not financially stuck. And the

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Speaker 1: patriarchy sees that and goes, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to shame her for her financial foundation. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to shame her for her financial independence to keep

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Speaker 1: her playing small. So I truly believe that not only

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Speaker 1: having a financial education, but actively using it to better

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Speaker 1: your life is your best form of protest in a

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Speaker 1: society that does not want you to be uncontrollable. And

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Speaker 1: that is the most liberating feeling and the feeling I

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Speaker 1: want for every single woman on this planet. Where I

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Speaker 1: am altruistic, I am conscious of people's feelings and supportive

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Speaker 1: of causes I believe, and I do all of this,

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Speaker 1: and I also don't have to take shit from anybody.

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Speaker 1: That's the feeling I want for every single person. Can

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Speaker 1: I ask you a question about your life? Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: kind of backlash have you experienced from having success and

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Speaker 1: also having knowledge all of those things that you just named?

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Speaker 1: What does that look like in your life? Could you

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Speaker 1: probably terrify people? I do? Um. I also I think

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Speaker 1: for many people like the really kind big sister who's

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Speaker 1: giving them the kick in the butt that they need. Um,

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Speaker 1: I terrify a lot of men, but the terrify are

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Speaker 1: not the men I'm interested in. So it's like a

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Speaker 1: man who is interested in like stepping into his power

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Speaker 1: and acknowledging his privilege, just like I acknowledge mine and

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Speaker 1: is really excited to learn and grow with me and

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Speaker 1: from me and to teach me things. Is the exact

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Speaker 1: kind of man that I'm interested in being around. And

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Speaker 1: I have those men in my life. I would say

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Speaker 1: beyond that, it's actually really interesting what happens to women

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Speaker 1: when I am very proud of my accomplishments and I

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Speaker 1: talk very unabashedly about like, you know, how well our

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Speaker 1: business is doing, or even or you know, struggles with things,

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Speaker 1: or like I talk a lot about you know, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got on the front page of this and I

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Speaker 1: got this book deal, and like, the interesting thing with

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Speaker 1: women is that and the patriarchy's taught us to play small.

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Speaker 1: So I do not blame them. But the response from

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Speaker 1: some people, and the women hurt me the most is

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Speaker 1: when they go, that's great for you, but you're really

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Speaker 1: really braggy or like I like you until you talked

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Speaker 1: about your accomplishments all the time, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: see you for what that is, which is, again, you

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Speaker 1: were told play small, stay, stay controllable, don't speak up,

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Speaker 1: people will notice you. And you've also been conditioned to

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Speaker 1: believe that there's one seat at the table, right, so

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Speaker 1: you watch me get a seat at the table, or

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Speaker 1: watch me build my own fucking table, and you go, shit,

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Speaker 1: that's I can't do that now. And I hope to

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Speaker 1: live in a society where again, we have women, people

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Speaker 1: of color, queer people, disabled people building tables all over

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Speaker 1: the place where there's no longer just this one seat

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Speaker 1: that we all fight each other for, because that's also

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Speaker 1: the patriarchy's doing, right. They're like, cool, I don't have

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Speaker 1: to do anything if I can just teach them to

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Speaker 1: fight each other. So that's the one that really kind

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Speaker 1: of breaks my heart because I'm like, oh, like, love,

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Speaker 1: you have been told to play small, You have been

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Speaker 1: told to see other women as threats. I see that

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Speaker 1: for what it is. I have so much empathy for you,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that like you can learn to see

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Speaker 1: that like a woman winning doesn't mean you're losing, and

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Speaker 1: a woman like very proudly saying I worked hard for this,

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Speaker 1: I accomplished this. I also acknowledge the privilege I had,

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Speaker 1: but I am excited excited about this, like that is

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Speaker 1: what I want from more people, and specifically more women. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of times what gets lost

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Speaker 1: in those conversations about the patriarchy is they get turned

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00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: so heavily on like men are these bad people that

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Speaker 1: are all out to get us, and we forget our

398
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Speaker 1: role because I know that I've had to take responsibility

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Speaker 1: and acknowledge some things that I've done or said, or

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Speaker 1: just natural beliefs that I have ingrained in my brain,

401
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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm not helping this cause. And I

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00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: have thoughts when people say I have to also take

403
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: accountability for that, and it doesn't feel good. It really

404
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: doesn't feel good. There's a lot of a shame and

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Speaker 1: some guilt in that, which is good because it can

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Speaker 1: move me to doing something different. But that's something I

407
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: think gets missed is we think that like, oh, we're

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Speaker 1: all on the same team. Well we want to be,

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Speaker 1: but we're not always acting like we are. So I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you pointed that out that sometimes it's the women

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Speaker 1: that are kind of pushing this deeper and hurting my

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Speaker 1: feelings the most. Yeah, And I you know, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us in twenty twenty kind of re

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Speaker 1: up to this conversation, and it's a conversation we should

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Speaker 1: continue to have. We, you know, are existing in a

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Speaker 1: racist system and in a racist country, in racist communities.

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Speaker 1: We have inherent bias because we exist in these systems.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing with misogyny, right, Like we think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the misogyny just comes from men, and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I have plenty of internalized misogyny that I'm working through

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Speaker 1: all the time. Right. I actually talked about this on

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Speaker 1: my podcast. For many many years, I did not like

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift and I could not tell you why, except

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Speaker 1: I was just like, she's not talented and I don't

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00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: like her, and I needed to stop talking about like

426
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: the men she dates all the time. And then what

427
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: happened was Olivia Rodrigo came out and of course creates

428
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: this incredible album about one guy breaking her heart, and

429
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, she's monetizing her trauma, what

430
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: she gets to do if she wants, and that's so

431
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: fucking cool. And then as I'm thinking this, I literally

432
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: stop in my tracks, and I'm like, Tori, that is

433
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: what Taylor Swift has been doing for twenty years, Like,

434
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: that is what she's been doing this entire time, and

435
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: you didn't like it for whatever reason. And that was

436
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: that moment where I was like, oh, I have a

437
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: turtalized massage Taylor Swift. I don't know, I don't know why.

438
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, am I weirdly jealous of her? That doesn't

439
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: make any sense. She and I are not at the

440
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: same level, like, you know. It was just it was

441
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: so easy for me to just be like, oh, I

442
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 1: don't like her, and then you know, Olivia Rodrigo comes

443
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: out and I'm like, oh, she's brilliant, and I'm like, wait,

444
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: it's the same fucking thing. So I am still not

445
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 1: like the biggest fan of Taylor's music. However, I'm way more.

446
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, she's built a fucking really cool thing.

447
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: Like she's very smart, she's very strategic in a cool way,

448
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: and just like even my own internalized Missagyna, I'm like, oh, okay, interesting,

449
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: interesting what happened there? Well? And I think that brings

450
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: it at the point that we're allowed to be like

451
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: shifting and changing, and also there's stuff that's built into

452
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: our brains already that we have to be aware of,

453
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 1: and it's okay to acknowledge that. Okay, I have a

454
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: question about more specifically the work that you're doing with

455
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: the women that you work with. So I'll build off

456
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: of my experience. But I work for myself, so I

457
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: didn't have any and I don't even know the right

458
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: terms to use. But people would say like, do you

459
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: have an IRA? And I'm like, what's an ira? They're

460
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: like do you have a four O K? And I'm like,

461
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, but I don't think

462
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: it applies to me. And I didn't know what any

463
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: of these things meant. Again, part of me was like, well,

464
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: all plan for retirement when I get married. My husband's

465
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: gonna have da da da da. I can just keep

466
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: all my money in a bank account, no clue. But

467
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: part of me thought, I think this is the part

468
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be real, thought, oh, it'll work

469
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: its way out eventually. Internally, once I started doing some

470
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: of that stuff, I realized, I'm so embarrassed that I'm

471
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: gonna go in my thirties to talk to some most

472
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: likely a man because those are the people that I

473
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: keep finding's financial advisor named Steve Oh. I have a

474
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: good story about my dad's financial advisor who made me

475
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: cry bawling. Yeah, it was bad. Did he just like

476
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 1: look at your fiance the entire time? Because that's the

477
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: thing I hear is they like they'll walk into a

478
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 1: male financial advisor's office and then the man will just

479
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: talk to the other man and you're like, why this

480
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: with the wallpaper? I'm here, you don't count. This was

481
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: actually a while ago, but it was just me. What

482
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: came up in that meeting was my choices to take

483
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: out student loans, and I just wanted to know how

484
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: to pay them back. I had no clue. I'm like,

485
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: what do I do? How much should I be paying?

486
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: What is an interest rate? Am I even paying part

487
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: of my loan? Or am I paying? I just went

488
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: and in It just went into well why do you

489
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: have debt? Why did you go to the school if

490
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: you couldn't afford it? And I was like, I don't know.

491
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: I just wanted to help people, right right, Well, And

492
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: that's the thing is like you already feel shame and

493
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: guilt about money. Right if I were to go out

494
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: on the street right now and ask a hundred people like,

495
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: what does the emotion you associate with money? It's not

496
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: going to be what it is for me, which is

497
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: like joy and abundance and ease. It's going to be

498
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: guilt and shame and fear and anxiety. And the very

499
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: interesting thing is that the people we turn to I

500
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: have a very public vindetta against you who must not

501
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: be named Dave Ramsey, Like who is, like, you know,

502
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: a finance expert. There's plenty of other people out there,

503
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: and it sounds like this person that you met with

504
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: right like the people that we are vulnerably coming to

505
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 1: and being like, high, teach me, because I'm confused if

506
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: we even get to that point where we're willing to

507
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: ask for help, which is so beautiful, why are the

508
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: people were asking for help and trusting for help being

509
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: like why do you do that? That's fucking stupid. You're like,

510
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: why am I here now? So I'm gonna go crawl

511
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: back into my hole and I'm gonna feel even worse

512
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: about myself. And that's one of the things that I

513
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: really try to do. And there's plenty of people out

514
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: there who do talk about money and who to keep

515
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: people about money in a way that is no shame,

516
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: no judgment, like deep empathy, but also grace and understanding,

517
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: like you weren't taught this, that's all okay. Again, like

518
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: we were talking about before, like this is a skill

519
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: that has learned and you're not going to be good

520
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: at it at first. You're going to fall in your ass, right,

521
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: that's okay. But it's also the understanding that like, no

522
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: wonder this is difficult for you. No one sat you

523
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: down and guided you through the process, like I had

524
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: the privilege of parents who did that. Plenty of people don't. Yeah,

525
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: So one thing I want to ask now, just for

526
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: anyone who's listening, you guys work with people online. You

527
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: don't have to be where you are, correct. No, no, no,

528
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: I don't even do private coaching anymore. We have our

529
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: podcast and we have our book, and then we have

530
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: courses and no, we're predominantly a digital company. Okay, But

531
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: so anybody can get more of what you're doing from

532
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: like courses and stuff like that. So I just want

533
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: to say that for people who are listening, like I

534
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: want to talk to somebody like that, there's so much

535
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: that you can get from a ton yeah, and we

536
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: have literally like step by stuff. I'll give you lengths

537
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: to if you just go somebody's listening to her first

538
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: hundred k dot com slash start. We literally just have

539
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: like all of the resources you need to at least

540
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: get started and feel like, Okay, I have the small win. Okay, cool,

541
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: I'm feeling more confident here. Cool. You know. So there's

542
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: there's so many recent We literally have been at this

543
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: for six years, so we have so many resources for

544
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: you all. Okay. So then going off of that, so

545
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: that story was when I was like twenty I must

546
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: have been twenty five because I just graduated. I didn't

547
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: go back to see a financial planner our advisor until

548
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: I was thirty two. So that's a lot of time

549
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: where I did nothing and I was then felt the

550
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: shame built obviously because more times going by and I'm

551
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: not doing anything and I'm older. What is something that

552
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: you would encourage to people that were in that position, Like,

553
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 1: how can you encourage somebody who was really scared and

554
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: who feels just so much shame and guilt for not knowing?

555
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: Because I know from my experience as a therapist, nobody

556
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: comes into my office and it's like, oh, I don't

557
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: know what attachment theory is if they don't know about it,

558
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: because they're not supposed to know that. Nobody taught you that,

559
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: But for some reason going into that, I'm like, well,

560
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: nobody taught me what I is, but I'm so embarrassed

561
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: that I don't know what it is. I have a

562
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: section in the first chapter of my book about this

563
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: one of the narratives that we believe. Almost every chapter

564
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: like starts with like the debunking of narratives, Right, what

565
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: do you believe about debt? What do you believe about investing?

566
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: And then we start with like what do you believe

567
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: about money in general? And one of them is like

568
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: I should just be good with money, right again, like

569
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm either born with the good with money gene or

570
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm bad, right, And it's truly down to

571
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: any other skill. Right. And my friend Tiffania Leiche who

572
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: is she runs the Budginista, She's a fellow money expert.

573
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: We quote her in that chapter. She said on my

574
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: podcast she goes, No one walks into a doctor's office

575
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: and goes like, why can't I set my own bone

576
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: when it's broken? Yeah, Like we think why can't I

577
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: just like learn the entire stock market and learn the

578
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: debt system that is purposefully confusing so that you stay

579
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: in debt longer. Like that's the other thing is it's

580
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: like my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that all

581
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: of this is more complicated so that you don't do

582
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: it or that so people continue to profit off of

583
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: you because fucking capitalism. So like, truly, the first step

584
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: is to offer yourself a ton of grace and go, Okay,

585
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: I didn't learn this or I learned part of it,

586
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: or I made a mistake and I'm still hung up

587
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: on it, and like that's okay, that's okay, right again,

588
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: if we use like an a language, an example, right,

589
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 1: if I'm learning how to speak French, I remember, like,

590
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, writing a French paper in my French class

591
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: in high school, and I think I wrote I was

592
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: supposed to write the word I don't even remember. I

593
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: accidentally wrote the word toilet and it was like it

594
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: was not the correct word, you know, And like that's

595
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: going to happen, is you're gonna like write the word

596
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: toilet in French when you mean comes something completely different,

597
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: And that's going to happen for a while, right, you're

598
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: going to overdraft on your account. You're going to like realize,

599
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: oh shit, I don't know. The stock market feels scary,

600
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: so I'm just going to avoid it. I'm gonna put

601
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: all my bills in the closet and not look at them,

602
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: like that's totally normal. So the first thing is like

603
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: a shit ton of grace. The second thing is just

604
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: like again, learning a language. You're going to learn like

605
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: three vocab words in a day, right, or you might

606
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: learn how to conjugate one verb. You're not speaking fluent

607
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: French overnight. The same way with money, we're going to

608
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: take really really small steps to better our money right now, right,

609
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: shameless plug. Maybe that's listening to my book or buying

610
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: my book, writing my book, or going to the podcast.

611
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just again looking at your bills for the

612
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: first time and being like, Okay, this is the lay

613
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: of the land. Not in a way that I'm judging myself,

614
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, this is what it is. Maybe you

615
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: haven't checked your debt balance in a while, or like

616
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: maybe you don't have that four O one K set

617
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: up right, Just to like one thing that'll take you

618
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: less than ten minutes today to feel financially better, and

619
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: then you're just going to start doing that over time.

620
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: We have a practice that we talk about called the

621
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: money date. We call it like financial self care. Right.

622
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: Self care is the hard shit, the shit that you

623
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: do in the moment that probably doesn't feel great but

624
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: makes you to use life better. Right. It's like the

625
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: working out, it's eating a salad, it's going to therapy. Right.

626
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: Self care is the shit that makes your life better

627
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: even when you're uncomfortable, and that includes looking at your money.

628
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: So one of the things anybody listening can do is

629
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: literally set yourself a money date, and if you're managing

630
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: money with a partner, do this with them at least

631
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: once a month, Like I like mine on Sunday nights.

632
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: They're non negotiable. They're like a half hour to an

633
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: hour by yourself, a glass bottle of wine and like

634
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: down comforter, cocoon yourself, get take out from your favorite restaurant,

635
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: and like, sit down and look at your money, set

636
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: your financial goals, right, check in with your money. And

637
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: we're doing this as a way to not only keep

638
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: ourselves accountable, but also to see progress right, to see

639
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: oh okay, cool I did pay off this amount of

640
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: debt or I know my savings did increase by this amount.

641
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: It's also again to give yourself a dedicated place to

642
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: start looking at money as a tool. Money is the

643
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: tool and the resource you need to build the life

644
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: that you love. So we can work backwards. Right. If

645
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: we say I want to travel internationally at least once

646
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: a year, that's a huge priority for me. The question

647
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: then is how do I use money as a tool

648
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: to be able to travel internationally? If I want to

649
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: get married and have a a cool wedding and a

650
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: big lad like, how do I use money as a tool.

651
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: How do we use money as a tool to get

652
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: that right? If we want to have children in five years,

653
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: how do we use money as a tool if I

654
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: want to start a business? Right, the question needs to

655
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: be how do I use this thing to better my

656
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: life and to get it like, to get to a

657
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: point where I want to go as opposed to this

658
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: thing is preventing me from doing any of the things

659
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: that I love. This thing is the reason I can't.

660
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: So that was a lot. Ye offer yourself grace, like

661
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: set a money date with yourself and also start consuming

662
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: resources that make you feel good, right, start consuming financial

663
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: education content, whether that's me or somebody else that offers

664
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: you very actionable takeaways and just do like one thing

665
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: that's going to take you less than ten minutes, and

666
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: then just do another and another and it'll snowball for you. Yeah.

667
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: And I do want to say after I heard you

668
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: on Man Enough, I was like, she's amazing, But I

669
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to listen to your podcast because I still

670
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 1: didn't want to pay attention to it. You're gonna be here,

671
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm too scared. I don't want to do it.

672
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, she's gonna call me out and do something

673
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: about it. Yes, but it actually is something that has

674
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: felt really good. And the episode you did it was

675
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: titled like Managing Money in your thirties or something like that.

676
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: It was more recent yea, yes, yes, yeah, there was

677
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: a couple of things that were set in there that

678
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: I just like was like standing up a little taller

679
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: and like just felt like some umph because you talked

680
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: about managing your own finances even if you're in a

681
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: relationship and being able to learn and that not being oh, well,

682
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: that means you don't trust to your partner because whether

683
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: you want it separate or whether you want to be

684
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: a part of it. And I kind of want you

685
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about that, because I think

686
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: that something that is still so while I've made strides

687
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: towards things, it's so normal in a heterosexual relationship for

688
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: a woman to say, even if she comes into it

689
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: with money and I'll hand it over and then don't

690
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: look at anything. But if I do, then that means

691
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: that I don't trust him, or that I'm not letting

692
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: him do what heat whatever. So can you say a

693
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: little bit about that. Yeah, we've seen this as such

694
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: a big question in our community. We're actually in the

695
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: midst of creating an entire course we're calling finance for couples,

696
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure if that'll be out by the

697
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: time this episode gets released. But like, literally, it is

698
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: such a common problem that we're putting together a whole

699
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: curriculum to answer it. For any part of your relationship,

700
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: The first thing anybody in any sort of partnership, in

701
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: any sort of like level of that partnership, whether you've

702
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: just like started dating, whether you've gotten engaged, whether you're married,

703
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: whether you've been married for twenty years, I need you

704
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: to talk about money like I need you to have

705
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: financial conversations. The scary stats are, you know, half of

706
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: marriages and in separate ration, and the number one reason

707
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: those separations occur is actually finance related issues. The fun

708
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: part about it, though, is that I want you again

709
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: talking about money because that is going to be one

710
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: of the tools, I would argue, the biggest tool in

711
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: your toolkit to be able to have a thriving, healthy

712
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: marriage where you're accomplishing things together or partnership or you're

713
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: accomplishing things together. Easiest way again to start these conversations

714
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: already what I was doing before, asking your partner, how

715
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: do we use money as a tool to build the

716
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: life that we want? Right and working backwards from the

717
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: exciting part right, the travel or the kids, or the

718
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: house or the whatever. Right, how do we use money

719
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: as a tool to get that right? As opposed to, oh,

720
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: you're spending money and that's preventing us from being able

721
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: to do it right or your mindset around money. You

722
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: just need to get a better job and then we'll

723
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: be able to pay for it right. I have very

724
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: few hard and fast rules for me personal finances, personal right,

725
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: everybody's life everybody's relationships are very different. One of my

726
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: hard and fast rules, though, is that every person in

727
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 1: a relationship should have some of their own money. Now, again,

728
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: the scary part of this the amount of people who

729
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: have come to us and said, we got divorced, whether

730
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: it was amicable or not, I have nothing to show

731
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: for it. I have no money, I have no resources.

732
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't know the passwords to anything right. Maybe my

733
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: partner died and I don't know any of it right. Like,

734
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: I want you to not only feel secure in your

735
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: knowledge of things, to be able to be an equitable

736
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: partner in this relationship when it comes to money, to

737
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: make those decisions together. I also never want you feeling

738
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: stuck or without anything. Abusive relationships have some sort of

739
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: financial abuse tied to them, and we all, I hope

740
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: to God right, it's not you. We know plenty of

741
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: people who are in our community, who are in my life,

742
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: who have come to me and been like I was

743
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: left with nothing when this relationship ended, or I could

744
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: not get out of this relationship because I didn't have money.

745
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: On the more fun flip side, I always want my

746
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: partner to realize that I could leave at any time, right,

747
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: that I'm not stuck in this because I'm just here

748
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: for the money, but I'm choosing to be here because

749
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: I love this person and I value our relationship. Right,

750
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: there's actually something so beautifully powerful of like either of

751
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: us could leave at any time, Like we're not like

752
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: forced into this from a financial perspective. I'm instead I

753
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: love you and I'm choosing to be here. It's also

754
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: a certain level of like I want your own money

755
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: so that you can spend money on things that you

756
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: like without having to consult your partner first. Right, Like

757
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: my dad has his golf club money, my mom has

758
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: her scrapbook money, and that's money that they always you know,

759
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: like that's the money that they get to spend on

760
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: whatever they want without having to consult each other. Yeah,

761
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: we also want to be able to buy each other gifts,

762
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: right without again having the other person no, so always

763
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: have a little bit of your own money, and we

764
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: know from statistics that actually makes a healthier relationship. The

765
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: course you said it hasn't come out yet, but no,

766
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: we're working on it. But literally, it's like an all

767
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: you can eat guide to managing money in a relationship,

768
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: like working through how to talk about money. If one

769
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: or both of you is freaked out and scared, should

770
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: you combine finances? If so, here are the like, here

771
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: are the different steps. We have all of it in there.

772
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: How to pay off debt together, how to save money together,

773
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: how to like a state plan together, which is something

774
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel sexy but like is super important, Like

775
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: how do I get a will? How do I put

776
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: that together? How do I protect my family? So we're

777
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: doing that right now. Is putting those resources together amazing?

778
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: I will say, in the last what forty minutes, thirty

779
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: five minutes, I've already learned a lot. And I'm assuming

780
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: that the people listening are also in that same vein.

781
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: So if you're sitting there being like, oh my gosh,

782
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: that was a lot of information, but I ate it up. Yeah,

783
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: and I want more And I also want to in

784
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: another area, can you shout out podcast, book, website, all

785
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: the things where people can find you and get more stuff. Yeah,

786
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm at her first hundred k on all the socials

787
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 1: and her first hundred k dot com. The easiest way

788
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: to connect with me is Financial Feminist, the book or

789
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: the podcast. The books are available wherever you get your books,

790
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: including which is so exciting in Target stores. If you

791
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: walk into Target, you will see my book, which is

792
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: so cool. And then Financial Feminist is available wherever you're

793
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: listening right now. So yeah, we have so many of

794
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: those resources. The book is really like all you can

795
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: eat in a very digestible way. When it comes to money,

796
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: we also again have that start here page, So if

797
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: you go to her first hundred k dot com slash start,

798
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: we will give you step by step resources to navigate

799
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: money wherever you are in your financial journey, whether you're

800
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, feeling good or feeling terrified or just trying

801
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: to figure out how to how to stay afloat. Right now,

802
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: we have all of those racist resources for you linked. Yeah,

803
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: and I want to say to just help people who

804
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: felt who feel like maybe I felt before is something

805
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: that I'm I've learned from listening to you and just

806
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: finding good people in my life, and you've touched on

807
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: this is one. You don't have to do everything at once,

808
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: no one you shouldn't. You'll get overwhelmed and you'll bail

809
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: yet so hard undercent you don't want to do everything

810
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: at once, and so it's it's I like you being

811
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: able to give people small wins, so it gives the

812
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: momentum to keep going. And the other thing is is

813
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 1: that I used to feel and I think it's part

814
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: of what kept me along with all the other things

815
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: that I mentioned, is I felt like I needed to

816
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 1: have a bajillion dollars to go and talk to somebody

817
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: about how to manage my money. And really I think

818
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: that kept me from probably making a lot of money.

819
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: And so that anybody who is a human, because we

820
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: all have to interact with money, can benefit from the

821
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: stuff that you're teaching. Thanks, I appreciate that. Yeah, And

822
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: it's again like the number one thing and the hardest

823
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: thing is to give yourself a shit ton of grace

824
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: and like there's enough shame and judgments in society in general,

825
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't help to get more coming from your brain.

826
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: So just like it's okay that you don't know this,

827
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: it's not okay though, to keep sabotaging yourself if you

828
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: know you can do something about it. And I say

829
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: that with all of the empathy in the world, like

830
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: I want you to be able to take an actionable

831
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: step to start feeling better. I want you to feel

832
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: better about managing money. I want you to be in

833
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: control of your money rather than it controlling you. So

834
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: I just appreciate you having me on. Yeah, of course,

835
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: but that just reminded me of whoever is doing my taxes.

836
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: I was sending things and I was like, I'm sorry,

837
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 1: it's really disorganized. I don't really know how to use Excel,

838
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: which i'm learning, sure, but I was like, yeah, it

839
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. You can call me. And he responded like,

840
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: it's okay that you don't know how to do this.

841
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: They didn't teach me counseling and accounting school, and that

842
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: goes off. Yeah, and that was helpful, and so that

843
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: goes off what you're saying. And so I appreciate that.

844
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here, Thanks for doing what you're doing.

845
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: I've benefited from it and I know, but Jillian, out

846
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: of people have thank you so much. Appreciate it