WEBVTT - Ep. 86: Spanish Mackerel Pellet Heads 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:07.960 Well, you know, like when the eggs rot a little 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.240 bit and get discolored in the water. Dead egg. I'm like, 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.680 get out of here with that ship a dead egg, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.600 kidney pellet fly. If you have fifty six stripers on hand, 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.639 why are you eating a possum? Anglers could get at 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.400 least three lures out of one straw, And I mean 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.200 straws are essentially free. Right, you can walk into McDonald's 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.200 goll gonna do a straw, right, jeez, Joe, what beat decent? 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.640 Good morning, general anglers, and welcome to Bent, the fishing 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.400 podcast that's been standing on this rock since four am 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.000 so we can show off its fishing prowess by beating 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.600 up on a bunch of fresh pellet heads. I'm Joe Surmelie, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.919 and I'm hating Samacuh. You gotta love that forty year 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.080 old guy like just gunning sticks and like we're Oh, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:54.880 I don't think people are gonna know what that means, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.840 smoking sticks, burning heaters. I knew what you meant, and 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.360 I know that guy, Yeah, just issuing a good old 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.400 fashioned stocker beat down in front of like dozens of 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.080 like father and son teams trying to have a bonding 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.200 moment to put a couple on the stringer, you know 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.600 what I mean? Like, yeah, man, like and look and 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.440 teach their own right. That's how guys, that's I grew 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.760 up in that scene, right. I know that guy well. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.840 And sometimes it just feels good to rattle a chain stringer, hey, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.240 and you know, just and you know what, sometimes that 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.320 guy'll bring you up onto his rock if you're a 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.280 little kid, and he'll show you how to throw the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.400 meal worm, and he'll let you just wail on the 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.720 stockers from he'll give you. He'll give you a Marlborough 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:36.800 light it up anyway. Look, I I I know that 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.280 that nowadays, at least, you're all about those Native cuddies 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.240 and graylings and all that other cool ship you guys 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.959 got going on out there. But I also know that 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.600 you've got a a a soft spot for for opening 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.960 day stocky bashing. Because you're from out here. You can't 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.200 lie to me. I know that's part of you. You 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.840 are as an angler. You're right, you're right. So then 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.760 I gotta ask you, man, when was the last time 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.240 you actually did the whole opening day thing? Alright? Uh, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:07.960 confession time it wasn't. I don't think it was opening day. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.919 But okay, okay, so back in the right when everything 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.720 was real weird, um, and they were doing all that 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:17.400 kind of I don't know if they did this in 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.480 like Jersey or whatever, but at least in Pennsylvania they 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.839 did these like discreet stocking hits. Like p A wasn't 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.680 putting out a schedule. They were just like, this season 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.760 is opened, We're going to be stocking things quietly, so 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.960 we don't have a ton of people converging on like 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.360 this one body of water. And they were trying to 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.799 stem the tide of Rona at the time. They didn't 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.280 want you to get it on the Stoker stream. Yeah yeah, um. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:41.919 So I was holed up in that cabin in the 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.560 Pocono and stuff talked about before and there was this 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:46.600 one trout stream that I had done an opening day 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.360 thing on wait wait wait wait wait back with like 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.040 my dad and my brother and my uncle, my cousins. 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.880 So anyway, uh on the opener or or or I 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.960 guess just after it probably realistically it's probably a little 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.960 bit after it. But I hit the stream. I looked 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:06.280 down from the bridge and it is loaded, just totally 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.760 totally loaded. And what do you think The first thing, 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.760 uh that I noticed is a big old palomino, big 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.640 old golden, A big old golden. Yeah, man, that's what 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.480 they're good for. You see one, it's like, well, if 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.200 he's there, there's eighty more right underneath them. Now, okay, 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.400 So two things about me. One, I've never been the 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.799 lucky little boy to catch a golden trout on opening day. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.280 Never have I been the bell of the ball. Another 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.400 thing about me, despite being a thirty year old man, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.640 sometimes I act like a child. And for whatever reason, 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.320 I saw that fish, and I was like your mine, 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.280 because that's what you think when you see one. It 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.840 doesn't matter. It's like you have to catch it. You 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.280 have to catch it. It's so obnoxious anyway, So I 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.840 went down there. I drifted a pheasant tail right in 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.800 front of that fish. Bam, first cast you you would 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.320 have thought I caught a wild steelhead. I was embarrassingly excited, 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:08.800 particularly coupled with the fact that I had to stream 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.800 all to myself. It was this weird thing where they 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.560 had effectively recreated the experience that we all go after 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.120 when we're like fishing stockers, that being a wild trout 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.800 stream with plentiful fish except they had this one just ridiculous, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.479 uh like mutant trout. At the end of my line. Anyway, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.520 I was so unbelievably stoked. I did an evil laugh, 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.240 and I think I sent it to you. But I 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.120 even bought the fish home, like the greasy, dirty stocky 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.320 basher I am. I had my then girlfriend take a picture. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.160 Um it's me in a in a sims onesie holding 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.120 that fish in a kitchen, and it's horrible, but it's 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.120 also one of my favorite pictures. I'm pretty sure I 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.080 sent that to you in miles. I know, yeah, I 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.080 I remember I used it without your permission, thanking you 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.440 for helping with with our theme music a long time ago, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.520 and you were upset, you were mad anyway, I can 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.880 I can bash shut up? I can you were mad. 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:15.720 I know I wasn't. Look I can back up what 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.960 you're saying, though, because not that long ago, I was 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.880 on a float on a river loaded with wild brown trout, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.560 that is what I was there for, And we came 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:31.680 across this giant, dumpy like twenty six inch palomino like 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:36.560 holding there in this seam, and like I wasted forty 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.200 minutes of a perfectly good wild brown trout float because 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.160 I'm like, we're catching this thing, man, we're catching it. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.520 And it's funny you said it eight right away. There's 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.800 a there's a golden secret for all you guys out there. 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.599 I have found that you either get him on the 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.760 first cast or he's done that. It's it's one and done, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.240 because I think they're just more wary. They know they 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.600 can be seen. So I think they just get harassed 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.279 into oblivion. Man. I remember when I first caught that trout. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:03.720 I sent a picture of my dad and I said, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:10.640 it has got to be tough being a golden trout. Okay, yeah, 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.400 so so that's my embarrassing man. Child opening day story. 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.520 Now you have young kids, and I'd imagine a way 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.159 less like I don't know, um whereas I'm being childish, 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.479 I imagine you have an Opening Day's story more appropriately childish, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.320 like childlike wonder Well. To be honest, I've I've I've 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.440 yet to take my kids out on Opening I have. 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.080 I I have not done an Opening Day God, since 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.600 maybe I was I was in college. I kinda got 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.800 over that, Like I didn't, But I don't take my 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.440 kids on Opening Day because they're they're too little at 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.920 this point to appreciate it, but also like why take 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.760 them out in the middle of the ship show, right, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.159 So I usually wait a week or two before I 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.640 take my kids trout fishing. Um. I'll try to tell 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.880 this one quickly, but the dad's out there will understand this. 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.960 Last last um last spring, I took my daughter out 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.119 and we got into some trout. We had the stream 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.040 all to ourselves, and she was she was doing great 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.040 catching these rainbows, and I'm sliding each one on a stringer. Well, uh, 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.200 at some point I like went to go catch one 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.400 myself and left her just playing with the stringer, right, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.880 And I remember this very this very same thing happening 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.920 to me when I was little. She she comes over 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.760 and we're talking and not and I look turned around 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.560 and I'm like, where's the stringer And she's like, oh, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.640 I thought I stuck it in the dirt deep enough. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.920 And I was like, well, like, first of all, like 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.200 I care about these stockers, like I care about eating. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.720 Then I'm like, well, there goes all our trout. I 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.240 don't know, And like it was in the middle of 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.120 this deep hole, in this in this raging spring water, 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.320 and I was I was so bummed because then she 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.360 was so bummed because we were going to eat those. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.040 And then I noticed like the tip of the stringer 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.400 literally clinging to the edge of a lady in like 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.840 water over my head and like my little six year 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.200 old daughter is like handing me sticks and I'm like 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.480 trying not to go in above my waiters and ship 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.239 and damn it, I got it. I saved the day. 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.120 I saved the day. Yeah, they said. A little part 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.240 of me was like if we don't get them, then 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.480 I don't have to eat those. But we did and 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.920 we cooked them and she enjoyed it, so it was good. Yeah. Well, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.640 I mean like that's it's kind of funny, like the 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.400 arc that you go through with Opening Day and when 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.720 when you're a kid, you just want to participate. Then 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.120 when you get a little bit older and you kind 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.200 of recognize what's going on, you kind of want to 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.439 get like secluded, and you really just it's just your 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.160 first cracking fish and you've been waiting for it. Then 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:39.719 you get to the point where you're like, dude, I'm 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.319 not messing with Opening Day. I just like don't want 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:43.760 to do this at all. And then you get to 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:45.520 the point where you're like I want to see that 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.440 ship show. I want to see a little blood. I say, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.240 I'm not ready for the ship show, But my kids 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.640 have made me fall in love with trout fisheries I 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.880 gave up on years ago places I loved when I 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.600 was little that I'm like, I'm over that joint. All 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.280 of a sudden, you see them with new eyes, and 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.800 it's been really fun. You know well, I'll tell you what. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.760 That's infinitely more charming than my story. Anyway. One of 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.560 the cool things about fishing for stockers is that, like 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.520 you have license to do all the things many of 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.199 you don't admit you do when you're targeting wild trout, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.800 I bombarding the same hole for hours. Within line spinners, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:19.760 Joe and I have both talked about, like our favorite 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.160 inline spinners on Ben You know yours was a MEPs 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.160 right or Panther Martin Panther Martin. Mine was a Swiss wing. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.959 But today on our Maker segment, we're going to learn 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:34.480 about a handcrafted inline or some handcrafted in lines. Uh 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.560 part in the pun with a twisty we're doing our 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:50.240 tool times salute. So joining us for Makers today kind 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.000 of tied into our our little opening opening day theme. 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.280 Um you know, as we mentioned opening day, trout wherever 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.600 you fish for trout, inline spinners, right, everybody loves a 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.400 good in line spinner. And it just so happened that 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.760 we have a listener fan, Evan Moso, who now I 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.440 have not Evan, welcome. First of all, it's great to 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.640 have you here. Um, and I have not used your 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.559 products yet, but I think if you look at loremaking 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.959 in general these days, a lot of people are doing handboards, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:24.079 soft plastics and swim baits and things like that. Yet 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.080 you are Spinex Designs. You are going all in on 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.400 on custom in lines. That's one of the big things 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.040 that you do. Um. So I'm just so everybody knows, man, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.240 you're from the Pacific Northwest. Correct, that's right. Yeah, small 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.880 little town in Oregon. Okay. So like what's home order 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.319 for you? Man? Like, what did you grow up doing 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.960 out there? I imagine the salmon and steel game? Yeah, 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.800 So like growing up, I didn't do a lot of 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.040 salmon and steel head fishing because I just didn't have 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.640 too much family that did that in my area. But 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.960 I did a lot of trout fishing on my own. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:55.440 I could get out and do that, and I just 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.200 got really hooked on trout fishing. That's like what I 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.120 that's what's in my heart. I love to fish or 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.720 c run rainbow trout, especially so because we get a 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.120 big return of those, you know, not big big by 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.079 any means these days, but we still get a good 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.520 wave of those coming up when sometimes when the salmon 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.120 come up and sometimes when the steelhead come up, and 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.960 those fish they are very aggressive and they hit a 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.320 spinner very hard. No, dude, that's fat. No, I don't know, Heyden, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.360 do you know anything about that? Like, I know, I've 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.760 heard of c run cuddies out there right like in 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.200 the sound, but the c runs so these are smaller 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.719 c run rainbows. Yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, they may be 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.520 sorry I misspoke. They are cutthroat trout my bed. Okay, 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.400 there we are. Were I was messed up there a 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.680 little bit. No, no, no, it's certainly fine, man, because 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.520 I've actually always wanted to do that. I've seen a 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.400 lot of videos of guys fly casting and stuff waiting 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.240 in in the sound there. Um, so that's cool, man. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.200 So how long have you been making How long have 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.800 you been in the custom tackle game? Well, I started 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.520 out about two and a half years ago. I did 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.200 it for a year for my own I just wanted 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.199 to make some new spinners up because the spin is 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.840 that I had before they wouldn't get out for a 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.400 good cast and they wouldn't sink to the strike zone 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.240 quickly enough for my liking. So I wanted to do 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.040 a little bit of tinkering. And I've always liked to 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.480 tinker on things, and I just fell in love with 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.400 making some spinners especially I'm a spinner guy at heart, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.440 like I said, and I just love to get that 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.840 straight connection with the fish because they just dump your 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.760 raw tip over and it's just like an awesome fight. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.080 I mean, well, along along those lines, I think you know, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.760 one of the things we've talked about elsewhere in this 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.400 podcast is that you know a lot of guys associate 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.280 inline spinners with sort of that small stream trout deal um. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.439 But you say you're a spinner guy, therefore you know 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.720 as I know that you know, bigger inlines will catch 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.640 bigger fish. I just think it's it's hard for some 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.360 guys to adopt that necessarily is like a big fish lure. 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.960 But you, I'm sure see that differently. Obviously you've leaned 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.040 on them pretty hard, agreed. Yeah, So it's all about 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.800 the fisherman that you make it for, because like everyone's different, Joe. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.680 And uh so if you're fishing for like salmon on 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.800 the sy Uselaugh, because that's what I fish for a lot, 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.959 or on the side slot, especially because that's in my 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.800 home area. That's closest river for me. I like to 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.400 fish for salmon, especially with like a half ounce to 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.840 a three quarters ound spinner, because it's gonna get deeper 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.480 and the strikes own quicker, and normally at that time 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.280 of the year, the river will be up a little 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:17.840 bit more, so you're gonna want to get where the 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.640 fish are at, right, So you're gonna want a little 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.480 bit bigger presentation. And sometimes the bigger presentation will scare 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.000 away the smaller fish and you'll only be fishing for 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.360 bigger fish. So that's a good plus side. So when 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.000 when you make these like heavier spinners, are you like 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.000 messing around with like different alloys? Like, correct me if 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.800 I'm wrong, Joe, But like a lot of the traditional 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.200 spinners are made of brass, Yeah, brass or like Panto 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.199 Martins are lead bodies. Yeah, do you ever mess around 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.520 with like tungsten or anything like that. Well, I'm just 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.160 getting into this new workshop. I actually just expanded, and 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.880 I actually rented a quite a bigger shop than what 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.080 I had before, which is good. And I have a 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.680 whole lead pouring station set up to where I could 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.559 start pouring lead. But there is other metals like tungsten 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.720 and bith smith and in a few other metals that 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:11.280 I can start playing with with spinner bodies. So I'm curious. Uh, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.360 spinners tend to be regional, right, Like I grew up, 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.520 everybody out here is a Swiss swing or a Panther 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.320 Martin guy vibrats. I mean that's that's a West Coast deal, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.960 Like Vibracts started out there, right, Is that like the 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.360 spinner you you leaned on as a kid. I'm just curious. Yeah, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.320 that's the one I used a lot, along with the 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.800 rooster tail too, because the rooster tail seemed to have 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.400 the weight to get on the cast and sink, but 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.840 the Vibracts had a lot more action, and like the 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.960 blade just turns a lot different. So I kind of 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.600 tried to make a culmination of those two spinners together 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.280 and try to have a good version of that. Well, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.640 It's funny you say that about the vibrats, because I 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.280 always look at that, like I'll have a few of 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.960 those for bigger water when I need to get down more. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.560 They're always the heavy spinner, Like that's never been my 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.840 choice for like pocket water trout fishing, but I always 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.560 assume that that came them that you know, Northwest and 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:06.440 Alaska idea of having to cover big water for bigger fish. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.600 And I see a lot of those elements in what 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.760 you're making, Like looking at your lures, I mean you 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.440 make some pretty heavy duty stuff with some some pretty 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.440 different variants. Like I see a lot of bodies with uh, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.880 like a hoochie, Like a hoochie squid over them. Um, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.120 you know, like what's sort of the fun and the experimentation, 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:25.440 Like what are what are some of the things that 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.120 you're trying to do different to create maybe presentations that 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.520 you can't get out of a big box spinner. Well, 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.840 there's a lot of differences that in my spinners compared 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.920 to like uh, different spinner makers or just gear makers 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.440 in general. I try to get a lot of feedback 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.960 from anglers like you and Hayden, just to see what 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.160 you guys like a little different on your spinners, and 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.400 then I get a common agreement of that, and then 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.000 I'll put that on a spinner design, and I'll put 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.080 that to a few friends and they'll do some testing 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.600 and from there will kind of modify it if it 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.480 needs any I just really like to use spinners. That's 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.640 what I do. Mainly. I do other things with fishing methods, 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.880 but merely I like to give a different presentation with 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.160 the hoochie because salmon they really react a lot better 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.840 with something with an eyeball on it, like a little 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.960 white with some black on there. That interesting. It gets 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.400 their instincts kind of like, oh, what's this the predatory instincts, 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.680 And if it's on their lateral line, it has a 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.040 good chance of catching a fish for you. But some 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:26.120 honest American R and D right there, man, It's interesting 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.600 what you're saying because a lot of people I think 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.920 when you're looking at smaller spinners, um, you know, I 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.320 feel the same way about some streamers. It's like, Okay, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.440 I threw this gold panther Martin and the fish ate it. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.880 Would it have also eaten the silver one with the 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.000 orange tail? Did it really matter? But then I look 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.200 at a lot of your work, and there's so much 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.600 detail with eyes and different tones and different um like 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.680 prism tape and things like that. Uh, So clearly you've 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.160 noticed that that that does make a difference. It's not 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.680 just about vibration in the right place at the right time. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.920 All those little nuances do matter. Yeah. Correct. I was 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.120 just talking with a friend of mine that he lives 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.000 up in Alaska and he fishes for a lot of 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.040 gray ling. I was just talking to him yesterday and 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.280 he said, he, uh, throw everything in his tackle box 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.359 at these fish and they wouldn't bite. But he had 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.520 a some thread and a little fly tying hook and 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.840 he kind of tied up a black nymph and he 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.119 casted it out there and he was hooking the fish. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.120 But he was using all these other different spinners and jigs. 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.800 So it's it's really what the fish are targeting at 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:33.159 that moment. So let me ask you about another element 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.359 of your design that I've noticed. Um, do you have 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.760 a lot of you have a lot of spinners with 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.080 single hooks, and you have a lot of spinners with 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.920 trouble hooks. As far as that single hook design, is 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.120 that just to be like complying with regulations out there, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.679 or like, do you see any advantage between like, you know, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.960 a single hook in relation to a trouble hook or 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:54.080 vice versa. So with that definitely, So it's all about 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.080 the fishermen in two points of that aspect. If they 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.760 are fishing for food, they'll normally want a trouble hook 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.280 because as it will get a good grasp on the fish, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.120 and a single hook they'll definitely let you. You could 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.320 bounce your spinner a little bit more off the bottom 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.800 without getting hung up because you only have one point 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.879 in contact like a side wash hook. And uh, that's 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.280 that's really good too, because the sidewah shook will get 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:16.960 them right in the corner of the mouth. The trouble 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:18.880 hook it could be a little more fatal. If you're 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.879 fishing a wild only stream, you don't really want to 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.399 do that. You're gonna be fishing barbedless single hooks. But 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.960 trouble hooks they really go good for if you're trying 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.240 to catch some fish to eat. But single hooks, I've 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.240 I used them a lot just for regulation compliance because 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.879 some areas in Michigan you can only have like uh, 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.240 don't quote me exactly, but like an eighth inch or 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.400 three quarters inch from the shaft of the hook over 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.359 to the tip. So there's definitely a whole bunch of 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.800 areas of that aspect. I need to make sure the 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.600 customer has the right hook so they don't get in trouble. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.080 There's a there's something else to be said for that too, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.359 I mean compliance aside. If you sort of look at 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.960 people have asked me before, like oh, you know, yeah, 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.359 how come they don't use trouble hooks on trolling lures, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.480 Like wouldn't that wouldn't that make more sense? And if 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.760 you look at similar things like the tuna popping game, 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.560 most guys you'll see they take those big, heavy troubles 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.640 off and put on two singles because there's some argument 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.800 to the idea that one heavier gauge hook planted really well, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.440 uh you know, is also a stronger connection than one 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.840 of three small trouble stuck somewhere in the fish. So 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.160 I actually do know some guys that will even make 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.120 the effort to change out their rooster tails and panthers 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.959 small stuff for small streams. Um some of it for 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.120 you know, conservation because they're releasing the fish. But also 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.760 there there is a case for one hook planet well 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.000 is stronger than you know, kind of a half as 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.760 planted trouble. Oh. I've definitely heard that before because I've 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.760 also heard that since you if you had a big 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.560 trouble hook on the end of the lure and you're 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.120 hooked up on a nice steel head and it's thrashing around, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.119 Actually the weight of the lure can push back and 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.360 dislodge the trouble hook. That's why single hook is good 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.800 because it will normally go through their guilt plate right 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.199