WEBVTT - A little meta, a little Mama 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.600 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's a word purpose driven platform. Like we're 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.640 trying to get to substance? How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.360 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:24.600 really is? What's up on? Laura Karunti and I'm Alexa Kristen. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:29.480 Welcome back to Atlantia episode of Living one one. We're 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.760 back from fourth of July and we were with some 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.280 folks that we really love, some family, and Laura had 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:41.800 this hilarious conversation with my grandmother in law. Her name's Mama, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.720 definitely one of the most advanced eighty seven year old 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.120 women I've ever encountered with social media. Um, my favorite 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.680 things that she does is post incessantly pictures of my 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.840 German shepherd, Jack's on the I Love GSD page and 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.040 if you follow that page, you all notice that she 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.760 posts so many picks years that Jack often gets featured. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.240 And I'm not sure if it's because they want her 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.440 to stop posting pictures or because they just really think 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:10.480 my dog is beautiful, but I've just been so enthralled 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:17.040 by how much Facebook has given her later years in life. 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.200 Just a different meaning, different than the way you use it, 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:20.679 the way I use it, the way we talk about 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:22.959 it on the show. It's her connection and connection to 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.240 the world. And she will tell you that. Um, for 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.800 somebody that is a social butterfly, she is. She doesn't 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.440 like to go out that much anymore, and it's her 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.440 way of keeping you know, in touch with friends, but 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.640 also just being aware of everything that's happening. Um. We're 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:39.480 going to have a little fun with her at the 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.920 end of the show, but before then, we have a 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.920 very good friend and colleague who has been with us 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.880 not only on the ad Landia journey but really with 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.520 us in the last four years, who has worked with 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.440 us on all the major things that we've done and 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:01.960 has amazing perspective and is really one of the up 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.520 and coming talents in the industry. So all under the 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.160 age of thirty. Oh god, this makes me sad. But 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.480 Corbyn Brown will be with us, who is a strategy 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.079 director over at Giant Spoon, and I think it'll be 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:16.320 fun to hear both his perspective as to why he 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.520 left big agency to go work at something less conventional. 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.040 He was employee number one, which I think is is 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.639 a ballsy move to make at that age, but also 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.920 nothing to lose at the same time. And he'll tell 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.239 us about that. And then and then we get meta 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.360 and we talked about podcasting, which he's been begging us. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.120 He's like, can we do podcasting? About podcasting? We said, yes, 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.680 Corborn will do that, but also bigger than that, like 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.880 how audio is the through line in the next gen 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.960 of technology. So we'll be right back to Corbyn Brown. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.600 So today we brought in someone very special, a little 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.560 young on not little, definitely definitely a young and a 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:08.079 gun Corbyn Brown, director of strategy at Giant Spoon. Welcome, Corbin, 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.320 Welcome Corbin. Let's just be honest. Corbin and Laura work together. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.120 We do. And some would say he reports to me. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.840 Corbin would say he doesn't. And Corbin, Laura used to 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:25.560 work with me and we both reported to me. So 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.800 Corbin has done some of I think the best thinking 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.760 in the industry about where audio is going and podcasting, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.000 and he was a huge proponent of us going and 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.880 doing this podcast. So today we're making the show kind 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.600 of meta. As Corbyn likes to say, let's do a 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.240 podcast about podcasting, so we have a sound effect there. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.200 I don't know what I don't know what it is. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:54.400 Drumroll please, No, you're not feeling at cam. You're still 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.800 hanging on that backyard in Brooklyn from the weekend. Can 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.680 you do a mike yeah, microphone drop a podcast about podcasting. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:06.000 So Corbin, you're at Giant Spoon right now, which is 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.960 effectively a small boutique agency, right, as Giant Spoon likes 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.960 to say, an ad agency that doesn't like to make ads, right, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.560 A different agency, a different kind of agency. But you 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:23.080 started your career at big agencies. Yes I did, and 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:24.960 you made it and you hated it. Why did you 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.800 hate it? I mean, I so I wanted to Like, 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.160 I was drawn to advertising because it's this fascinating combination 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:37.479 of psychology and anthropology and sociology, all the ologies. But 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.680 you get to think about how people think and then 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.560 you use persuasion and communication to get them to do something, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.280 which is really fascinating. So I thought I wanted to 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.800 be a lawyer, which when you look at it that way, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.080 it's kind of similar. You're way too nice to be 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.120 a lawyer. I was going to be a lawyer. You're 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.120 not going to say that about me. I was just 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.960 looking at never that you would have crushed. You would 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.800 have crushed it. So talk a little bit about the 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.400 tr transition and you hated it? And did you start 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.560 looking around? What were you looking for? Because I actually 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.880 think there are a lot of people who are at 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:13.000 large you are at a media agency like looking that 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:14.839 they don't even know that they're looking, but they're looking, 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.599 uh for something different. So I went to a big 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.200 media agency with you know, all these big bread ideas 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.400 and thought it would be so cool. Um. I was 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.400 so excited to learn about technology and you know how 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.440 people communicate and consume media. And then I found that 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.760 my job was really to buy ad space. I was 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.080 a day trader and that's not what I wanted to do. 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.760 Are you on the planning side? I was a digital 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.800 media planner, and I would you know that the brief 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.400 would basically be it wasn't a brief, it was here's 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.080 X number of dollars. Right. You get a big chunk 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.200 of change plopped on your desk, and your job is 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.400 to figure out how to spend that money and what 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.400 frustrated me just about that even was well, like who 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.360 am I talking to? And what's the message and what's 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.560 the business problem? Like we were so far away from 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.880 all that, so the whole communication aspect of it wasn't 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.560 really there. And you know, when we were pitching our 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:12.159 plans and building our plans, the clients wanted to see, well, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.960 how much money did you save me? How many impressions 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.560 did I buy? And I just didn't really feel like 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.200 the work that I was doing was meaningful. Was most 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.240 of what you were doing, like banners, banners and video 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.880 was buying banners as buying pre role. It's funny. I 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.120 was talking to a group of clients recently and I 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.800 asked them if they actually got to know their agencies, 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.440 like their people on their teams and what they were 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.039 really good at. And I don't know if we've mentioned 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.039 this in another episode when we were talking about like 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.880 influencers like the innovations at the middle layer, but one 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.640 of the things I said to them was like, have 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.320 you talked to the kid that is planning your media 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.039 and this is working on this work and understand what 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.520 they're doing, and they're like time off because what you 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.160 will find are these amazing stories and amazing people who 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.560 like now nowadays, like everybody's got a side hustle. Right, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.440 So like one of the kids that we used to 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.880 work with had a whole like art club that he 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.600 was doing and doing this amazing work. You know, Um, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.920 the clients when you were working with them, did you 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.520 really get to know them? And that doesn't mean like 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.240 you get to know them it's personal. It's actually about like, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:24.120 I don't know, leveraging the whole person rights and yeah, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.200 and and like so many people are always trying to 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.560 talk to the quote millennial, right, and we have all 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.040 these millennials around us working on the business who have 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.840 no voice. I think that clients who asked the questions 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.280 about who they're working with and what, you know, inspires 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.720 their people, what they would do and what they think 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.440 of this. Yeah, I just don't think. I think that 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.040 this is going to sound bad, but I think that 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.600 that's why media agencies are becoming automated, because I think 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.960 that it doesn't require critical thinking, it doesn't require creativity 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.480 or curiosity. In fact, that was one of the reasons 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.560 why I left was and I'll never forget this moment, 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:03.880 was like four and a half months in and I 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.320 was sending around articles because I was trying to understand 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.880 the media landscape and what was going on. And I 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.120 would send around articles to like my director and the 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.520 rest of my team, like hey, this is really interesting, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.160 Like what do you guys think about this? Just trying 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:19.800 to learn, and people be like, oh, stop sending articles. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.560 I'm like, I'm so confused right now. But you know, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.400 I just think that, like, there are a lot of 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.080 people who come from a financial background whose brains work 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.760 in that way of I love this game of sort 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.520 of trading on an impression, right, they get the thrill 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.520 and the excitement from the deal. That's not about communicating. 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.640 I don't even know if that's a deal, right, It's 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.760 just like the thrill in the excitement of like beating 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.000 something down, bidding bidding. I mean I think that that's 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.240 like I like poker. I like to bid on stuff. 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.520 But it's a different type of game. It's a different 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.480 type of motive, it's a different type of way of thinking. 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.640 You know how you said it doesn't take critical thinking. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.920 I actually think programmatic actually does take critical thinking to 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.880 do it. Well, yeah, agree, Right, we've actually shut down 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.440 the ability for people to think critically or want to 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.720 think critically. Well, I think what you just said is 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.400 the delineation, right, because there's two sides of the programmatic game. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.480 There's the ones that are turning on an automated algorithm 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.679 and they're going out and they're finding the cheapest available 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.720 inventory in front of a specific audience at any given time. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.480 And then there are few and far between, which I 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.000 wish the industry would lean more into, are the people 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.640 who are trying to think about how they leverage automated 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.080 bidding creatively. And those are two very distinct things. And 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.760 automated I mean, really what it is the automated audience right, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.840 segmentation right? But how can you tell a narrative in that? 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.960 How can you find ways to make sure that that 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.560 isn't remnant inventory. I was talking to somebody today about 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.040 the issue with addressable TV and how it's the same 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:56.240 bad behavior of getting just remnant inventory across networks and 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.160 just because it's in front of an audience who is 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.800 let's just say fee mail thirty five to fifty four, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.880 all of a sudden you went from being on you know, 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.839 prime time positioning within programs like this is us to 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.959 like I love Lucy reruns on the Lifetime network. Well, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.080 so that's the difference because it's what mindset, psychology, all 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.280 these things. So critical thinking comes in when you when 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.560 you start applying context and you start applying moment. So 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.240 is this moment more valuable? Here's where I think we 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:27.640 think programmatic. It's really interesting is when you start buying experiences, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:32.520 you start trading on you know, a physical product, then 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.199 it gets completely different. The three of us, the three 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.319 of us built something about that, right, I mean it's 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:44.440 about programmatic. Actually it doesn't execute today, doesn't execute right 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.200 today doesn't. Technology is right, The technology is the right 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:52.760 directionally correct, right, But how we're using it as advertisers 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.600 and brands is not necessarily serving up experiences that people desire, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.360 and it considers behavior in the wrong way. So the 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.720 data comes from the wrong places. And it's no fault 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.600 to the way programmatic works because where else you're gonna 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.800 get data? You get data by watching what people do 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.200 on the internet. But when we live in this connected world, 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.160 so I gave a talk about connected disconnect It was 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.199 a great talk. Where do we do that l A? 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.240 We did that in l A. But when you start 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.280 to aggregate data from your physical body and where you 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.000 move and where you drive, and the temperature of your 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.000 house and the things that you order. You start to 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.720 get a fuller picture of who someone is and what 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.160 they do and where they migrate and then imagine what 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.480 do you That's where critical think it comes in because 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.760 what do you? How do you do that? And incomes 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.800 the audio conversation what the three of us? I think 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:52.360 in three years podcasting about podcasting, but it's more than podcasting, right, 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.199 So like what three years ago? The three of us 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:00.400 became obsessed with what was happening in the podcasting space 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.920 and thinking about how audio, where audio was going to 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.240 take things, and Cerrial was the impetus. I think for 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:07.959 a lot of us are like, hold on, wait a minute, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.880 because podcasting, like our host family here at Slate like 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.600 im panically, they've been doing it for ten years plus plus. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.360 But it wasn't really until Cereal took hold of main 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.560 Street gen pop in terms of listening to this entertainment 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.000 that we were like, holy shit, like this is not 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.280 about a thirty second host ree, this is about entertainment 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.560 in a brand new way. Can I say one quick thing? 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.520 You guys are giving me way too much credit because 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:36.360 one of the things I've been making to ask you 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.640 guys in front of your audience and listen to your podcast. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:44.120 Obviously you actually fan number one number one, but he 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.720 finally admitted that versus like forcing him to say it. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.520 I am fan number one. But you are two people 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.720 that are, you know, brilliant media thinkers, and you started 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.840 a podcast and you became obsessed with podcasting before I did. 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.319 Why what was it that got you like you? Guys? 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.720 I've known you for however long, and you have these 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.760 conversations where you get frantic and excited and you're like 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:13.840 sweating and pacing the margarita. That's the best thing ever. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.920 But that happened with podcasting and now we believe it's bigger. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.559 But why did that happen? It turned into podcasting, right? 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.199 I think it was a bigger discussion about where how 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.840 you could tell stories. This is really where it started. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.840 It was like, how can you tell stories that you 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.440 can bring people along with you and you're not dictating it. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.120 Video was dictating it right, and everybody was in this 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.960 video space and where were you going to actually put 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.720 video that was really differentiated? How could you take people 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.000 on a journey with you in a totally different way. 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.720 Not virtual reality, not video, not pre role, not television, 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.760 not this, not that right, because all mediums have distractions. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.400 They have distractions, but it was they also dictated. They 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.040 serve it up. I feel like when we're talking, I 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.080 hope and when I send a podcast, Like the other day, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:06.120 I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell's new season of Revisionist History. Um, 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.880 He's telling these brilliant stories, and my mind was just 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.040 like wandering. It's like reading a book, right, so I like, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.200 what what what book do you remember sitting on the 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.720 beach reading and like imagining, Shoot dog, I just did it? Okay, Shoot, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.400 don't you do? Yeah? You were texting me about shoot dog. Okay. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.880 I was going on the journey to Japan into the 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.720 shoe factories, meeting these people along the way, and it 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:29.520 was the first time in a long time in a 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.360 visual medium that I allowed my mind to escape. Why 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.480 because nobody was dictating. He felt close to Phil Night. 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.080 But what I want to get to is like, yeah, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.480 and and the reason that this is so powerful right 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.440 now and why we leaned into podcasting is where everybody 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.680 else the industry was chasing reach and frequency we were 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.560 running down, Like you know, two roads diverged in the 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.800 yellow Wood, we went the other way, and we were 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.680 hell bent on this idea that attention impact were the 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.120 new reach frequency. So before other people in the industry 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.480 were talking about I day trade attention, we were like, 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.040 you can day trade whatever you want all day long. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.200 What we were focused on was really about do you 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:12.040 really build something that not only captivates people but creates impact. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.400 And I'm not talking about five second you know, six 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.400 second add on you know, any social media insert social 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.840 media platform X. It's truly bringing people along a journey 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.600 that they opt in to listen to in an uninterrupted, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.160 intimate manner. The conversations we have on this show in 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:33.000 particular are exactly the guy you know this are exactly 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.720 the conversations we have off the show. Yeah, why wouldn't 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:43.080 you guys do this as a video series for radio, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.520 like only like a brother, like the only like a 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.320 brother would I think the biggest thing was like I 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.080 didn't want to dictate the experience so much. I wanted 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.560 I think, you know, and Laura and I agreed with that. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.600 We're like, there's so much to be said, and like 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.240 you said, you don't have to see us to like 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.240 be with us that And there was something kind of like, Genie, 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.200 that doesn't mean that's not something that we're going to do. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.960 That doesn't mean that we don't think video is the 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.600 right place but for Atlantia to begin, And you even 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.640 said this to us, like people want to listen to 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.800 these conversations, people want to be a part of these conversations. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.160 I don't know if this is an original thought or not, 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.800 but I was like, you're transporting me back to this 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.440 era when we were all like huffing and puffing and 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.400 freaking out. You guys first, and I jumped on the bendwagon. 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.840 But that was like the heart of the Golden age 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.760 of TV. And you have all of this storytelling that's 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.920 incredibly long form, hours and hours and hours, not just 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.520 a two hour movie, hours and hours and hours, not 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.760 just you know, forty five minutes primetime on TV. You 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.960 know you're committing to binging something. And that changed how 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.280 people thought about entertainment stories. And I kind of think 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.680 that the reason why Syria was so powerful was because 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.000 people realize that it's not the Golden age of TV, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:05.159 to this golden age of storytelling. Audio is audio is 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.760 just as right, if not more right. And here's why 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.919 it gets me so excited now is because and I 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.800 didn't make this up, but it's the most portable medium 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.119 that has ever been created, especially when you can stream it, 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:18.639 you know, you don't have to download it like a 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.440 on your iPod, which is why it's called the podcast. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.560 But I think that's why we're also obsessed with it 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.119 and why we feel like it's not a you know, 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:28.960 it's you could call it a channel. I would say 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.159 it's a platform. It's as audio is, as horizontal, and 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.760 it's impact and it's importance as artificial intell narration and 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.720 storytelling from the beginning of time, if you want to 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.359 take it all the way back. I wish Malcolm was 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.359 here to talk to us about it would be this 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.520 idea of like theater, right, And this is something that 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.280 the three of us has talked a lot about. Was 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.879 entertainment again about storytelling and a narration. And what was 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:55.040 one of the first mediums that ever existed was radio. 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.400 When you think even before television, that's how people were 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.000 getting their information. They were huddling around a box and 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.320 turning on the dial and limited channel options, but electing 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.320 to be entertained. And I think, you know, Alexa said 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.560 it like, this is not everything old that new again. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.960 It's technology coming in and actually taking a medium and 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.800 opening up in my in my perspective, the whole new world. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.639 It's no longer good enough to say I want to 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:26.399 have a podcast. Strategy. Podcast is one element in the 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.040 larger audio ecosystem. And we've talked about when the interface 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.639 goes away and all your left is sight, sound and motion, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.320 the interface being your laptop, your cell phone, what happens. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.760 So we were I was super lucky this morning to 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.639 talk to a guy named Doug Clinton, who is the 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.800 founder of Loop Ventures UM. It was something that Giant 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.320 Spoon organized and he came in and spoke to one 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.760 of our founders, Trevor, and what was really fascinating Number two, 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:58.080 by the way, he'll never admit never. So Doug was 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.280 talking about the four sort of themes that his firm 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:07.760 is founded upon, and it's a r VR, AI, artificial intelligence, 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.720 and robotics. And I was sitting here thinking about audio. 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.119 Audio audio is that if you look at the bleeding 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.760 edge of technology, what is the one thing that crosses 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.200 all the way through audio. We've talked so much about 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.320 what is the brand visual language? It's like, honey, you 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.760 better turn the page. What is the brands audio language? 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.639 What is just the brand's language? Right? I have to 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.480 say audio in that instance. And so we've talked a 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.919 lot about the need for neumonics and calls to action 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.120 and ways in which you're engaging with brands that are 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.800 just as unique as a logo that has presumably equity 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.359 for some brands and the millions and billions of dollars, Well, 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.720 what happens when you don't see that logo anymore? What 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.439 happens when the red and white Coca Cola can is 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.600 no longer visible? How do I order that? Or how 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.439 do I experience it? Like? How do I experience open happiness? 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.880 What does it sound like? How to brand start intersecting 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.639 into our lives in a way where we don't have 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.280 to push play? Interesting? That's an interesting way to think about. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.080 And I think when brands start getting into this space 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.919 outside of just advertising, the world's going to open up 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.080 really really wide, Right, It's going to be like a 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.760 whole another adventure into like what digital was when the 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.160 Internet started. What's mind blowing? Like if you if you're 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.760 on your commute and you're you know, your automated assistant 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.399 knows you have nine minutes to get to the office. 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.679 Then there's a whole another set of data points that Okay, well, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.600 Duncan Donuts and McDonald's and Burger King can all make 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.639 you a sandwich in five minutes, but one is closer 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.600 geographically on the way to your office, so maybe their 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.919 bid is a little bit cheaper, and Duncan Donuts is 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:47.119 going to have to pay more to get you to 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.520 veer off your route and go pick up their breakfast sandwich. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.560 But then what if you know your health tracker is saying, well, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.400 you didn't work out yesterday and you only did four 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.080 thousand steps, so it's crazy. Can I pivot to a 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.119 different rabbit hole for second? I think what's interesting about it, right, 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.360 is this idea of how brands are thinking about partnering 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.400 with one another. So, yes, you have Bezos buying Whole Foods. 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.320 But what happens when Tesla starts to do those partnerships 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.040 with Starbucks and then they start connecting those data points 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:19.000 and making that built an experience within their data set? Right, 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.360 So then does Tesla become a media company? Bump bump bump. Uh. 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:28.639 I mean I think that Corvitt Space was like, he 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:37.160 was like, yeah, they do. I was listening to tr X, Yeah, 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.160 I like the podcast How I made this, and they're 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.399 becoming a content company. So I could not agree with 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.040