1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: who is burned alive and the story of the man 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: accused of this heinous crime. Is that the right guy 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers? 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: questions than answers, this is the case that has captured 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: town divided. This is a must see TV event. It 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: a search for answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable crime 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers. Saturdays at seven six Central 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the new network for crime Crime Online News Update. 15 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: I'm Alan Duke. Just ahead another hour of crime Stories 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. In this hour, Nancy looks at the 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: search for missing six year old Maddox Rich in North 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Carolina and the Senate testimony of Dr Christine Blasi Ford, 19 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: who accuses Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault. 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: First let's hear a crucial segment of what Dr Ford 21 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: told the senators. There were four boys I remember specifically 22 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: being at the house, Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, a boy 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: named p J, and one other boy whose name I 24 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: cannot recall. I also remember my friend Leland attending. I 25 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: do not remember all of the details of how that 26 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: gathering came together, but like many that summer, it was 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: almost surely a spur of the moment gathering. I truly 28 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: wish I could be more helpful with more detailed answers 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to all of the questions that have and will be 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: asked about how I got to the party and where 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: it took place and so forth. I don't have all 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: the answers, and I don't remember as much as I 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: would like to. But the details that about that night 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: that bring me here today are the ones I will 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: never forget. They have been seared into my memory and 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: have haunted me episodically as an adult. When I got 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: to the small gathering, people were drinking beer in a 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: small living room family room type area on the first 39 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: floor of the house. I drank one beer. Brett and 40 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: Mark were visibly drunk early in the evening. I went 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: up a very narrow set of stairs leading from the 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: living room to a second floor to use the restroom. 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: When I got to the top of the stairs, I 44 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: was pushed from behind into a bedroom across from the bathroom. 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't see who pushed me. Brett and Mark came 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 1: into the bedroom and locked the door behind them. There 47 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: was music playing in the bedroom. It was turned up 48 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: louder by either Brett or Mark. Once we were in 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: the room, I was pushed onto the bed and Brett 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: got on top of me. He began running his hands 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: over my body and grinding into me. I yelled, hoping 52 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: that someone downstairs might hear me, and I tried to 53 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: get away from him, but his weight was heavy. Brett 54 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: groped me and tried to take off my clothes. He 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: had a hard time because he was very inebriated, and 56 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: because I was wearing a one piece bathing suit underneath 57 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: my clothing. I believed he was going to rape me. 58 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: I tried to yell for help. When I did, Brett 59 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: put his hand over my mouth to stop me from yelling. 60 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: This is what terrified me the most and has had 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: the most lasting impact on my life. It was hard 62 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: for me to breathe, and I thought that Brett was 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: accidentally going to kill me. Both Brett and Mark were 64 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: drunkenly laughing during the attack. They seemed to be having 65 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: a very good time. Mark seemed ambivalent, at times urging 66 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: Brett on and at times telling him to stop. A 67 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: couple of times I made a contact with Mark and 68 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: thought he might try to help me, but he did not. 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: During this assault, Mark came over and jumped on the 70 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: bed twice while Brett was on top of me, and 71 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: the last time that he did this, we toppled over 72 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: and Brett was no longer on top of me. I 73 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: was able to get up and run out of the room. 74 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Directly across from the bedroom was a small bathroom. I 75 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: ran inside the bathroom and locked the door. I waited 76 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: until I heard Brett and Mark leave the bedroom, laughing 77 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: and loudly walked down the narrow stairway, pinballing off the 78 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: walls on the way down. I waited, and when I 79 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: did not hear them come back up the stairs, I 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: left the bathroom, went down the same stair wall through 81 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: the living room, and left the house. I remember being 82 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: on the street and feeling this enormous sense of relief 83 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: that I escaped that house and that Brett and Mark 84 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: were not coming outside after me. Brett's assault on me 85 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: drastically altered my life. For a very long time, I 86 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: was too afraid and ashamed to tell anyone these details. 87 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: I did not want to tell my parents that I, 88 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: at age fifteen, was in a house without any parents present, 89 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: drinking beer with boys. I convinced myself that because Brett 90 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: did not rape me, I should just move on and 91 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: just pretend that it didn't happen. Over the years, I 92 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: told very very few friends that I had this traumatic experience. 93 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: I told my husband before we were married that I 94 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: had experienced a sexual assault. I had never told the 95 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: details to anyone, the specific details until May two thousand twelve, 96 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: during a couple's counseling session. The reason this came up 97 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: in counseling is that my husband and I had completed 98 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: a very extensive, very long remodel of our home, and 99 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: I insisted on a second front door, an idea that 100 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: he and others disagreed with and could not understand. In 101 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: explaining why I wanted a second front door, I began 102 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: to describe the assault in detail. I recall saying that 103 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: the boy who assaulted me could someday be on the U. S. 104 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and spoke a bit about his background at 105 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: an elitist all boys school in beth As to Maryland. 106 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: My husband recalls that I named my attacker as Brett Kavanaugh. 107 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Nancy discusses the Brett Kavanaugh ca So the second half 108 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: of this hour on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime 109 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. It's been torture. I'm not eating, 110 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: not sleeping. I'm just worried about getting my little boy back. 111 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: Appearing with police this afternoon at a news conference was 112 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: Ian Rich. He hasn't seen a six year old son, 113 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: Maddox since Saturday. That's when Ian and his girlfriend took Maddox, 114 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: who has autism and does not speak, to a local 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: park where there is a track in the lake. A 116 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: jogger passed by, and as he was jogging past us, 117 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: that's one Maddox started the jog out behind him. So, uh, 118 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: usually just giving him a little space and let him 119 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: do his thing. And once we got so far, he 120 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: took off from a running and I just never could 121 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: catch up with him. You're a girl, man, He's a 122 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: little boy. How did he outrun you? He can wrong, 123 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: he can wrong, okay, and I couldn't keep up with him, 124 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: not that fast. You are hearing our friends at CBS 125 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: News as David b Now interviewing Ian Rich, the father 126 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: now desperate who loses track of his non verbal, autistic 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: son there in Gastonia, North Carolina, a huge park. He 128 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: says he's overwhelmed with guilt as the search for the 129 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: six year old little boy Maddox goes on. I mean it, 130 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being 131 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: with us. We are bringing you the very latest, not 132 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: only in the search for little Maddox, but the start 133 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: of the hearings in d C for the next U. S. 134 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: Supreme Court Justice. A battle rages there as well. But 135 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: right now to the search for Maddox. To Kathleen Murphy 136 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: joining us there in North Carolina, Kathleen, what's happening? There 137 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: are so many questions. So I went back and looked 138 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: at all of the reports, and I pulled up an 139 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: online satellite view of this park, and I'm at a 140 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: law that his child not being found, and who is 141 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: the person that was with this father? Why haven't we 142 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: heard from them? Are the parents separated there and divorced 143 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: because in all of the conversations I hear from the parents, 144 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: it's never we mathematics, it's always I'm mathematics. And I 145 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: just don't think there's a lot of information out there 146 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: about what's really going on. Joining me also Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, 147 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: host of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal Vows, pathologist and medical examiner. 148 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: Dr Michelle Dupree. Dr Michelle recently publishing a book regarding 149 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: a field guide to homicide Vincent Hill with me, cop 150 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: turned private investigator, and of course Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina lawyer. 151 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: Also with me Jackie Howard and Alan Duke. To Dr 152 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Brian Russell, I don't feel that it's right to try 153 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: and decipher what the parents are saying as to the 154 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: state of their relation ship as they're looking for their 155 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: little boy. Although Kathleen does have a point um now 156 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: that she mentions it, I think she's right way in. 157 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: Dr Brian, well, yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying, 158 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: because priority one is to find the child and get 159 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: the child back safely. That's at all possible. However, any 160 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: kind of discord between the parents is relevant to the 161 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: extent that in some cases that becomes a motive for 162 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: parental involvement in these kinds of things. Well, you're right, 163 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: you're right. As much as it's a bitter peel, I 164 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: don't like to hear it. You're right, Dr Russell, and 165 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: you're right to Kathleen Um joining me, Dr Michelle Dupre 166 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: and Vincent Hill Alan Jackie Howard to Dr Michelle Dupree, 167 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: pathologist and medical examiner and author. Maddox has been missing 168 00:10:52,880 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: since Saturday afternoon. That's six days. What does that mean, Nancy? 169 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: It means that he's going to be extremely dehydrated. People 170 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: can live without food for a much longer time than 171 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: they can water. And a child on his own, especially 172 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: a child with autism UM that may have difficulty this, 173 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: this is going to be extremely dangerous dehydration if what 174 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: happens after six days without water? What do you mean? 175 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: Dehydration is so dangerous Because of lack of water, you 176 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: don't get enough substance to the cells, Your brain will 177 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: tend to swell. Dwelling will cause you to pass out. 178 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: When you pass out again, if you're not UM, if 179 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: you don't receive water, UM and other medical attention, then 180 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: the person could actually perish amidst the backdrop of question 181 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: after question. Take a listen to Maddox's mother. I just 182 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: want to thank each and every person who has reached 183 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: out to me about Maddox wanting to help find him. 184 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: I would appreciate it if you were at the park 185 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: Saturday and saw Maddox. So please urgently, please call the tip. 186 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm please continue praying for him because I just want 187 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: my baby home. Please, whatever you can do. Maddox is 188 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: my whole world and my reason from living. He's Mama's boy. 189 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: Maddox loves the park. He loves bouncy balls, and he 190 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: loves his teddy beer. His smile so contagious and his 191 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: laughter is so precious. If you think that you have 192 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: seen Maddox, please reach out to police. Thank you all 193 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: for your love and support, and I just want to 194 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: say I want my baby back in my arms. Take 195 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: a listen to this call an hour now everywhere Where's 196 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: the last place seen him in the park? The one 197 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: person says that the father was totally out of breath. 198 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: To Vincent hill Cocked and private Eye, what does that 199 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: say to you? Well, Nancy, would appear that either he 200 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: was running after Madox, like he said, or you know, 201 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: just scrambling around in this huge park to try to 202 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: find his son. But what's interesting with this nine one 203 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: one caller, Rick Fox, he did tell w s o 204 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: CTV channel nine that he really, uh, Ian really didn't 205 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: seem to be too concerned as he would be if 206 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: he had a missing child. He didn't see like he 207 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: was overly concerned that Maddox was even missing at that time. 208 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: And that's very telling, Nancy. And not only that, I'm 209 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: sure there was more than one jogger in that park. 210 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: You would assume these joggers would be coming forward saying, yes, 211 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: I was in the park, I saw this kid. I 212 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: want you to reflect on what you're saying, Vince Hill, 213 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: and what you have heard and what it means. If anything, 214 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: you're referring to a TV interview by who to whom 215 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: about what I want to be very specific about what 216 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: you heard. So Rick Fox, the the employee of the 217 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: park who called nine one, he told w s o 218 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: C TV channel nine there and I believe Gastonia that 219 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: Ian did not seem to overly concerned. He didn't seem 220 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: too stressed out as he would be if he had 221 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: a missing child. So he was kind of suggesting that 222 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: maybe ian Ian wasn't concerned that Maddox was missing at all. 223 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: And that's that's very telling for this man to say this. 224 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: Who called nine on one? And you have to question 225 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: as well, why didn't Ian at some point call nine 226 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: one one forty minutes into this? He didn't act like 227 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: a concerned parent, right, I would act on any concerned 228 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: parent would act. The mother was really frantic, and see 229 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: what she was like, hysterical And he got out of 230 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: the car and you know, of course I know wanted us, 231 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: Sir had it coming calm her. Okay, that is the 232 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: sound that Vincent Hill is referring to. And this guy 233 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: says he his name is Rick Fox, and he is 234 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: the one that you heard on the nine one one 235 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: call that afternoon after the park's office alerts nine one 236 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: one that the boy is missing. He said the dad 237 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: Ian approached him. He says, quote, he can't stop thinking 238 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: about that day. The dad approached me and said he 239 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: lost his kid. I said, when was the last time 240 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: you saw him? He said that they were coming around 241 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: the track and Maddox got away from him. The dad says, 242 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: I'd say he's been gone almost an hour. We've searched 243 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: everywhere it goes on, and he says the mom is 244 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: frantic and hysterical. She got out of the car and 245 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: one of the sheriff's deputies had to go calm her down. 246 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: As to the dad, he did not act like a 247 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: concerned parent like I would act, or any concerned parent 248 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: would act. Okay, that's the very first time I've been 249 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: on the dad's side from the get go. But Kathleen Murphy, 250 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: I've I've got to be realistic and look at this objectively. 251 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: That was the first impression of someone on the same Kathleen. 252 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: There are so many questions, and I want to go 253 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: back to this third party because if the child was 254 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: never at the park and was murdered by somebody before that, 255 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: who is this third party? Why hasn't that person spoken out? 256 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: And the behaviors of this father. I saw his interview 257 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: on the news station and there was something that concerned 258 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: to me about it, so that I went on and 259 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: did a satellite you of this park. There's a police 260 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: firing range near this park. There's a Wendy's restaurant near 261 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: this part. There are so many places where this child 262 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: would have been seen, yet nobody reports seeing this child. 263 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, 264 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the 265 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi 266 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: who is burned alive and the story of the man 267 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: accused of this heinous crime. Is that the right guy 268 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers? 269 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more 270 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: questions than answers, this is the case that has captured 271 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small 272 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: town divided. This is a must see TV event. It 273 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as 274 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: a search for answers and justice goes on unspeakable crime, 275 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers, Saturdays at seven Central on Oxygen, 276 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: the new network for crime Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 277 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: From Way was he from you? He was he? He 278 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: initially took off just a little ways, maybe thirty ft 279 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: from me, and then he went to a major sprint 280 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: after that. And that's whenever I took off run and 281 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: after him, I was giving him just a little leeway freedom. 282 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: He likes playing outside. He enjoys the outdoors, so I 283 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: just wanted him to have fun. Worry. I started worrying 284 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 1: once I got back and didn't see him anymore. And 285 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: once I got to where the office is, you can 286 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: see that there's the parking lot right there and you 287 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: can still go around the lake. So once I couldnot 288 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: see him anymore, that's when I got scared of from 289 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: the way because the history of he usually runs, but 290 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: he'll slow down or stop to give me a chance 291 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: to go pick him up a lot. That was our 292 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: very first time I've ever gone there. That is the 293 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: father speaking in the last hours that a news conference. 294 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: Joining us right now. We are taking your calls crime 295 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: Heather in Batton Rage High Heather, what's your question, dear 296 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: hi um? I actually i've heard you guys asking who 297 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: is the person, the other person, the third party that 298 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: was with him. I actually watched a report from CBS 299 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: last night, guy named David I don't know how to 300 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: say his last name, big Nod or something, and he 301 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: said that the third party was the father's girlfriend of 302 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: two months. Okay, stay right there, Heather, stay right there. 303 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. That has been my suspicion that it 304 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: was a girlfriend, and I'll tell you why, because the 305 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: friend remained unnamed and never came forward to to stay 306 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: what happened. Well, it sounds totally plausible. I didn't hear 307 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: that report on CBS, so I can't comment on the 308 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: accuracy of the reporting, but it sounds I think your 309 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: theory makes sense. What, if anything, does that mean to 310 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: the scenario. Dr Russell, Well, I don't know that it 311 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: means anything necessarily, but it certainly does. Uh. It does 312 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: add another dimension to the story, and it adds all 313 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: kinds of suspicions then running through my mind, not suspicions, 314 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: and it runs all kinds of theories through my mind 315 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: about how potential discord between the parents could, in some cases, 316 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily this one end up being a motivator of 317 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: parental involvement in the child going missing. According to the father, 318 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: he has taken to polygraph tests and pass but the 319 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: FBI is not confirming. Now police say that they want 320 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: to talk to the person who was sitting wearing camouflage 321 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: hat and taking a silver kayak out of the lake 322 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: at the time he went missing. The lake is still 323 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: being drained. To Dr Michelle dupree. If matox has wandered 324 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: into that lake, is there going to be any way 325 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: to determine cause of death? Yes, Sansy, there very well. Maybe. 326 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: Of course, if it's a case of drowning, we can 327 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: certainly determine that. If there are other signs of abuse, 328 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: say blant trauma or anything else, we will likely be 329 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: able to tell that through in autopsy. And when you 330 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: say trauma, how could you tell that if a body 331 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: has been submerged for hours or days even there will 332 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: be UM signs of that on the body. Physical science, 333 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: for example, bruises. Water does not cover up bruises UM. 334 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: That's blood in the tissues surrounding the injury. UM, any 335 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: kind of fractures will certainly be able to determine any 336 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: kind of UM, blontenforced trauma, any of that. We should 337 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: still be able to determine some of our stopsies. You know, 338 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: to Nashville p d turn private investigator Vincent Hill, we've 339 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: been studying the aerial map along with Kathleen Murphy. What 340 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: she is saying, if you look at the overhead, She's right, 341 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: there are all these establishments right around the part. What 342 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: does that mean? Interpret that for me? In terms Vincent 343 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: Hill of finding the boy. Well, man, she she's absolutely right. 344 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: I mean, quite frankly, someone sort of seen Little Maddox. 345 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: And the biggest problem I have with this scenario, Nancy 346 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: is Ian says he was ahead of him, then he 347 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: took off in a full sprint. But looking at the 348 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: aerial footage, there's really no area where he would have 349 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: lost sight a little Maddox. And he never once said 350 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: I lost sight of him at this park that he 351 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: went to for the very very first time, and then 352 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: his son goes missing at this park. But in in theory, 353 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: if even if he takes off in a full sprint, 354 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: he still should have had visual on his son. I mean, 355 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: and he looks like he's in pretty good shape. He's 356 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: not six pounds and he can't run, So I don't 357 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: understand that. Well. Now, in just the last hour, the 358 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: nine one one caller is now saying he doesn't believe 359 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: the six year old boy was ever even at the 360 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: park when he went missing. That's a very very serious 361 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: allegations have released that nine on one call May nearly 362 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: an hour after Little Maddix goes missing. It is a 363 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: guy named Rick Fox who works there at rankin Lake 364 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: Park who made the nine on one call, and he 365 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: is now saying he doesn't believe the boy was ever there. 366 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: He says, quote it didn't look as though they were 367 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: that concern of the boy's father and girlfriend who was 368 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: with him at the park. He goes on to say, quote, 369 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: I've worked there almost three years. We see everybody come 370 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: in and out of that park pretty much. I did 371 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: not see that kid one time. What does this mean? 372 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: What if anything doesn't mean to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina, 373 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: joining us on the scene, what does it mean, Kathleen? 374 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: It means that another case of Mariah Wood. Mariah would 375 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: went missing out of her home in the middle of 376 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: the night, and the father was eventually with a boyfriend, 377 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: was eventually charged with her murder. And that's what I 378 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: believe because I'm looking and I agree with you Ben 379 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: it there there's no way that this child was out 380 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: of visual sight from his father. Okay, wait a minute, 381 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: right there, right there, hold on, I've taken my twins 382 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: hiking in the woods many, many times. A little known fact. 383 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: Over the summer in college, I made my living as 384 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: a hike master. I take them on hikes religiously. They 385 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: will get far. They will get ahead of me. Not far, 386 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: but they will get ahead of me. They'll turn a bend. 387 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: And when that happens, I take off running. And I 388 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: hate to tell him slow down, slow down, slow down. 389 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: When they're having fun, I take off after them. And 390 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: for those few moments it's scary. But I'm having a 391 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: hard time understanding how we got away that fast. To Kathleen, Yeah, 392 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: there's no there's there's there's no very few beds around 393 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: this leg. He says. He was right across the lake 394 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: from the pier. If you look at the satellite view 395 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: of the lake, across from the pier is a long, long, 396 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: long road with no bends. And I'm gonna tell you 397 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: what if I have a six year old autistic child 398 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: a flash of my eyes, and if I can't see 399 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: my child in that period of time, Hell's gonna break loose. Well, 400 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, you know what happened to me. It 401 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: happened to me inside a Big Baby's rus superstore when 402 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: I was looking. Jackie's laughing here in the studit because 403 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: she's heard it. It makes me almost almost makes me nauseous. 404 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: Dr Brian. I was squatting down on the very bottom 405 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: shelf on the floor, practically looking for organic suntan lotion. 406 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: But don't even bother And I asked quite long story. 407 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: I had John David Lucy with me. They were only 408 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: two and a half maybe at the time, and they 409 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: were wearing those little crocs that are silent, and I 410 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: stood up after not finding anything. Irritated, I turned around. 411 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: There's Lucy just staring at me, and John David's gone. 412 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: Just like Adam Walsh. I nearly had a heart attack. 413 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: I grabbed Lucy like a football quarterback under my arm 414 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: and took off running, screaming. And of course we've found him. 415 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: He had just wandered off like three miles, three aisles away, 416 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,239 Speaker 1: and it was that fast. It was that fast. I 417 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: want to defend the father, but my main concern here, 418 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell is finding the child. Yeah, and I 419 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: think that reaction that you had is uh the normal 420 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: reaction that we would expect from any parent in that situation. 421 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: And it is interesting that this employee of the park 422 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: is saying that there was no sign of that kind 423 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: of concern, that level of concern coming out of the father. 424 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of times you hear psychologists say, well, 425 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: you know, everybody reacts differently to things, and you can't 426 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: really read anything into somebody's reaction just because it's not yours. Yeah, 427 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: you can sometimes tip line in the search formatics seven 428 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: O four eight six nine zero seven five seven O 429 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: four eight six nine one zero seven five And now 430 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: to Washington. You have categorically denied that this happened. Did 431 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: anything happen? No, I've never sexually assaulted anyone, not in 432 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: high school, not ever. I've always treated women with dignity 433 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: and respect. Listen to the people who have known me 434 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: best through my whole life, the women who have known 435 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: me since high school, who overnight signed a letter from 436 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: high school saying I always treated them with dignity and respect. 437 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: You are hearing the sound of potential Supreme Court Justice 438 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh. The battle starting now officially, although it's been 439 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: being ways for weeks on end, with one woman claiming 440 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: she and her family have now had to move to 441 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: a safe house after she emerges with claims this Supreme 442 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: Court justice nominee sexually assaulted her in high school. Opening 443 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: statements now joining me right now, Shawn Walsh Daily Mail 444 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: dot Com sean she has provided a written statement ahead 445 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: of time about what she plans to say. Generally, what 446 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: do you think, Sean, Nancy, this is going to be 447 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: one of those days that goes down in history. The 448 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: world will be watching as the testimony, Jeweling testimony occurs today. 449 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: And in that statement she provides intivid detail her recollection 450 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: of the night she alleges brick Kavanaugh actually assaulted her 451 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: at a high school party. Now, let me talk about 452 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: what she is alleging. She is not alleging a rape. 453 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: She is uh had been. She was a teenager. She 454 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: had been swimming almost every day at a community pool, 455 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: and she went to an all girls school and they 456 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: would get together with the all boys schools, various schools 457 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: in the area. And this was an impromptu Hey let's 458 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: go over to this house after swimming, and a group 459 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: of teens went there. There were no parents, everyone was drinking. 460 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: She had one beer, according to her. And I'm talking 461 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: about Dr Christine Blasi for this is what I've learned 462 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: about her. You know what, I'll let you talk about it, Sean. 463 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: What do we know about her background? We know quite 464 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: a bit about her background. I mean, this is a 465 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: woman who, it seems the first was kind of reluctant 466 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: to reveal herself publicly, but now she said she will 467 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: and she's doing that today. She seemed like a studious 468 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: girl who knew Brett Havana have to go to a 469 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: party with him, and I can get into those details 470 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: of the party, Nancy, if you'd like of what she said, 471 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, Yes, I do want that. But Sean, 472 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: you know what. I appreciate you being a crack reporter 473 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: and the force behind Daily mel TV. I really do. 474 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: But could you please be responsive to my question? You're 475 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: on a direct a response. Okay, that's what I typically 476 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: do in court, but I'll go easy on you. I'm 477 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: talking about her. This is what I know. Correct me 478 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, Sean. While she just can't wait to 479 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: jump into the sex assault allegation, I understand how she 480 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: grew up in the suburbs of DC. She went to 481 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: hold an Arms School in Bethesda from a eighty four. 482 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: It's an all girls school um that started way back 483 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen o one. The girls there would become friendly 484 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: with boys from the all boys school, the Land of School, 485 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: Georgetown Prep, Gonzaga High School, a lot of places our 486 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: family could never afford and I think you're with me 487 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: on that, but in in a lot of story short 488 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: that's how they met on that you know, teen circuit. 489 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: So that year um and freshman sophomore years fourteen fifteen, 490 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: she intersected with Brett and his friends for a short 491 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: period of time and it leads him up to the 492 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: Maryland swimming pool party. One day now, that summer day, 493 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: after swimming, she goes to a gathering at a home 494 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: in Chevy Chase. It's the Bethesda area. There were four 495 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: boys she remembers being there, Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, P. J. Smith, 496 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: and another boy whose name she doesn't recall. That's how 497 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: that evening started. But what I want to talk about 498 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: is who she is. This woman is no idiot. Now 499 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: does that matter in the big ski, No, But what 500 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm saying is she can't hold down the position she 501 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: has with being a complete fly by night. All right, Um, 502 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: it's Christine Blasi Ford a professor of psychology at Palo 503 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: Alto University, a research psychologist at Stanford University of Medicine, 504 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: undergrad University North Carolina, degree in Experimental psychology, master's degree 505 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: in ninety one clinical psychology at Pepperdine then a pH 506 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: d in Educational psychology University Southern California, master's degree in 507 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: a epidemiology at Stanford University School of Medicine. She's been 508 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: married to one man since two thousand two and they 509 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: have two children. Before I go to Shawn Walsh about 510 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: the attack, the alleged attack, Dr Michelle Dupree, what does 511 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: that mean that you have your pH d and epidemiology? 512 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: What is that, Nancy? Epidemology is really um statistics. It 513 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: tells us um where we can find that diseases began. 514 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: It's more of a community public health type of degree. 515 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: It's very intensive. It has a lot of statistics in 516 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: it and requires a lot of work. Epidemiology. You know, 517 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: for some reason many people believe that that is a 518 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: branch of uh study of medicine. But you're saying it 519 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: deals with statistically analyzing epidemics, medical epidemics. Is that right? 520 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: That's right? It does. Like ebola or the plague that's 521 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: what we're talking about, Okay, I got it? Or food poisoning. 522 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: Where did that food poisoning? The outbreak a car? Okay? 523 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: All right, you just clarified a lot for me and 524 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: trying to understand who this woman is very analytical background. Okay, 525 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: Sean Walsh Dei email dot com, Daily Mail TV. Yes, 526 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: you're a superstar. You're not. At the start of day, Sean, 527 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: I hate to break it to you. She is. And 528 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: there was a mysterious note placed in front of her 529 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: seat where she is testifying in front of the Senate 530 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee that says, good luck, doctor Ford. Okay, Now, 531 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: how do the attack, the alleged attack go down? Because 532 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: she was wearing a one piece swimsuit underneath shorts in 533 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: a shirt. How did it happen? Okay? So let me 534 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: take you through what um. You've named all of the 535 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: people that said they were there, and she also says 536 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: that a friend by the name of leyland Ingham was 537 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: attending as well. She's very clear on saying that she 538 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: does not remember all of the details of how the 539 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: gathering came together, but like many of that summer, it 540 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: was one of those spur of the moment things that 541 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: that happened, and we all remember when were kids, the 542 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: party would happen you turned up. She says that she 543 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: wishes she could provide more details to all of those 544 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: questions about how she got to the party, where it 545 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: took place, but she just doesn't have those answers. Well, 546 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: hold on, let me call you just right there, Dr 547 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: Brian Russell. That's not my high school experience. That's neither 548 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: here nor there. But she the significance in our backtrack 549 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: to Sean, Dr Brian, is that the reason she says 550 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: she didn't come forward to start with is she didn't 551 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: want her parents to know she went to a party 552 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: without telling them, unsupervised and there was a beer there, 553 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: which I can tell you many children in America around 554 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: the world have on the very Sean walls. You are not, 555 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. Hold on a moment, Dr Brian Russell, 556 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: jump in before Sean starts a game. Place. This uh 557 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: spectacle that you're seeing today is the reason why, if 558 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: you didn't know in high school or middle school, why 559 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: you were assigned to read Arthur Miller's The Crucible, the 560 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: play The Crucible. This is the reason, and you should 561 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: go back and read it now. In this context, if 562 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: an accuser chooses to keep quiet for years and years, 563 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: that's fine, that's their prerogative, although I have to note 564 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: that that does if the accuser believes their story. Uh, 565 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: that does leave a perpetrator at least they someone they 566 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: believe as a perpetrator out there running around potentially able 567 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: to victimize other people. But if they want to keep that, uh, 568 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: if they want to keep quiet about that, the law 569 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: allows them to do that. But at some point, for 570 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: most alleged wrongdoings, it becomes unreasonable to expect this xiety 571 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: to a sort out what happened with enough certainty to 572 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: effectuate any justice, and therefore unreasonable for society to even 573 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: entertain the allegation. And I think that's where we are 574 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: on this. And if I were on that committee today, 575 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: with all of the various inconsistencies and the whole that 576 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: there are more holes and that I could drive my 577 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: big SUV through the holes in this story, my question 578 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: would be, uh, man, thank you for coming here today. 579 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: If anything you've said here today can be proven false, 580 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: do you agree that you should be prosecuted to the 581 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: fullest extent of the law for perjury. Well, actually, Sean 582 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: Walsh daily mail dot com. She has mentioned the incident 583 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: over the years, and I'm still circling back to Sean, 584 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,919 Speaker 1: believe it or not. I'm sorry I interrupted, but she 585 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: did tell what they were building her house. She insisted 586 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: on a double front door, two front door so people 587 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: could get out, and she told her husband about it 588 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: then when they first built their house. Over the years, 589 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: she has told select people about it, not always mentioning 590 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: his name. But again I've misdirected Sean back to the 591 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: actual incident. What does she say happened? Sure, Nancy, Um, 592 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: you're correct, And I think one thing we should also 593 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: point out is that her parents were Bush Conservatives, so 594 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 1: she didn't come from a family of Democrats like people think. 595 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: It's been reported that her parents were Bush Conservatives back 596 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: in the era, so there's a bit of that. Because 597 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: this is a very much a partisan This is very 598 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: much a partisan day, and regardless of where you sit 599 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: in the political spectrum, there's always going to be a 600 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: shadow of a doubt of accusations that are made during 601 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: this period because there's someone who has been vetted very 602 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: much over their career, as Kavana has, and so it 603 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 1: is worth noting she does come from a family of conservatives. Well, 604 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: Sean Watts, once again I've asked you what happened, and 605 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: somehow you've managed to do a deep dive and family politics. 606 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: What I want to know are, what are the facts 607 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: Deshan what daily mail dot com The hearing is happening now. 608 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: I want to go finally go through the facts. Go ahead, Sean. Okay. So. 609 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: She says that when she got to the small gathering, 610 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: people were drinking beer in a small living room on 611 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: the first floor of the house. She says that she 612 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: drank one beer that evening and that Brett and Mark, 613 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: two of the people there, were visibly drunk. Early in 614 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 1: the evening, she had gone up a narrow settle stairs 615 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: leading from the living room to a second floor to 616 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: use the bathroom. When she got to the top of 617 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: the stairs, she claims she was pushed from behind into 618 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: a bedroom. She couldn't see who pushed her, but Brett 619 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: and Mark allegedly came into the bedroom and locked the 620 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: door behind them. She says there was music playing in 621 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: the bedroom. It was turned up louder, but she doesn't 622 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: know who turned up the music. Once Brett and Mark 623 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: were in the room, she says she was pushed onto 624 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: the bed and Brett got on top of her. She 625 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: alleges that he began running his hands over her body 626 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: and grinding his hips on top on her. She says 627 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: she yelled think that someone downstairs might hear her, and 628 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: she tried to get away from him, but she says 629 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 1: that his weight was heavy. He groped her and tried 630 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: to take off her clothes. She alleges she said he 631 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: had a hard time because she was because he was 632 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: so drunk, and because she was wearing a one piece 633 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: bathing suit under her clothing. She believed that he was 634 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: going to rape her. She said she tried to yell 635 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: for help. When she did, she claims that he put 636 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: his hand over her mouth to to to stop her 637 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: from screaming. She says this is what terrified her the 638 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: most and that she had them and this had the 639 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: most lasting impact on her life. She claims it was 640 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: difficult for her to breathe and that she thought Brett 641 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: was actually evently going to kill her. She said both 642 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: Brett and Mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack that 643 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: she is alleging. She also says that both seemed to 644 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: be having a good time. Mark was urging Brett on 645 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: and at times he told Brett to stop. She said 646 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: a couple of times made eye contact with Mark and 647 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: thought he might try and help her, but she claims 648 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: he did not. She said during this assault. Mark came 649 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: over and jumped on the bed twice while Brett was 650 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: on top of her. The last time he did this, 651 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: they toppled over and Brett was no longer on top 652 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: of her. She says that she was then able to 653 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: get up and run out of the room. Directly across 654 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: her in the bedroom was a small bathroom. She says 655 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: that she ran inside and locked the door. She heard 656 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: Breton Mark leave the bedroom, laughing and loudly walking down 657 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: the narrow stairs, pinballing off the walls on the way down. 658 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: She says she waited, and when she did not hear 659 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: from them, she came back up the stairs. She left 660 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: the bedroom, ran down the stairs, through the living room, 661 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: and left the house. She says she remembers being on 662 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: the street and filling an enormous sense of relief that 663 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: she had escaped from the house and that Breton Mark 664 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: were not coming after her. She says that the assault 665 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: drastically altered her life. She said for a very long 666 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: time she was too afraid and too ashamed to tell 667 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: anyone the details. She said she did not want to 668 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: tell her parents that at the age of fifteen, I 669 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: was in a house without any parents present, drinking beer 670 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: with boys. She tried to convince herself that because Brett 671 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: did not rape her, she should be able to move 672 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: on and just pretend that it did not happen. She said. 673 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: Over the years, she told very few friends that she 674 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: had had this traumatic experience. You know. According to Dr four, 675 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: she told her husband before they were married that she 676 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: had been sex assaulted. It did not tell the details 677 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: during until May two thousand twelve and a couple's counseling session, 678 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: and it came up because they had done this extensive 679 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: remodel on their home and she was insisting on that 680 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: second front door. Sean Waltz, Daily Mail dot Com and 681 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: Daily Mail TV explain why second door to the remodeling 682 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: of the home was so so critical. She said that 683 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: she wanted to have a second front door because the 684 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: boy that assaulted her, that she alleges assaulted her, could 685 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: one day be on the Supreme Court, and she wanted 686 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: extra safety in her house. The husband recalls that at 687 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: that time, which was May two thousand and twelve, she 688 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: named her attack as Brett Kavanaugh. Sean Walsh part, I'm 689 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: torn on this and I'll tell you why, because I 690 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 1: want the truth and I don't care if she's telling 691 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: the truth or not telling the truth. I just want 692 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: to know the truth. He does he have any other 693 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: incidents like this in his background? I want to know that, 694 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: because what I know about her is that she has none, 695 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: and as a matter of fact, I know that this 696 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: has been a great personal sacrifice to her Seawan Walsh 697 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: daily mail dot Com. Of course, she tried to keep 698 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: her identity secret, but it wasn't long before it leaked out. 699 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: And what has happened since then. In the last couple 700 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: of weeks, there are now two new accusers that have 701 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: come forward with allegations against Brett Kavanaugh and um. Their 702 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: stories are both detail ass you know, Nancy, and they're 703 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: also being heavily vetted by people like daily mail dot com. 704 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: I mean, we have extensive reporting today about the new 705 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: accuser that came forward overnight. So Nancy, there is a 706 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: lot of other information coming through. And what I'm saying 707 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: is she's had to come she came forward, and now 708 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: she's being attacked and maligned online and the family had 709 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: to move out of the house. You've got two kids exactly. 710 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 1: She says that she's now in a safe house because 711 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: of this. I mean, so I mean, when you're making 712 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,399 Speaker 1: accusations like this, that I mean, if we go back 713 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: just to She says in therapy session she had done 714 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,959 Speaker 1: her best to suppress the memories of the assault. Before 715 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: recounting the details caused to her, and she said reliving 716 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: the experience of course panic attacks anxiety. She occasionally she 717 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: will discuss the assaulting individual therapy, but talking about it 718 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: caused her to relive the trauma, so she tried not 719 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: to think about it or discuss it. She says over 720 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: the years, she went through periods where she thought about 721 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: breast attack and she confided in some clothes ends about 722 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: the experience. Occasionally she'd say that the assailant was a 723 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: prominent lawyer or judge, but she would not use his name. 724 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: She says she doesn't recall each person she spoke to 725 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: about britsassault, and that some friends have reminded her of 726 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: these conversations since the Washington Post broke the story of 727 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: September sixteen, but she said about until July, she had 728 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: never named Mr Kavanaugh as her attacker outside of therapy, 729 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: but she says this all changed in July eighteen. She 730 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: saw the press reports stating that Britt Kavanaugh was on 731 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: the shortlist of potential Supreme Court nominees, so she then 732 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: felt it was her civic duty to relay the information 733 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: she had about Mr. Kavana's conduct to those considering his 734 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: potential nomination. And now, Nancy, let's listen to a crucial 735 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: segment of Dr Christine blaisie Ford's opening statement to the 736 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: Senate Judiciary Committee. There were four boys I remember specifically 737 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: being at the house, Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, appointing PJ, 738 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: and one other boy whose name I cannot recall. I 739 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,280 Speaker 1: also remember my friend Leland attending. I do not remember 740 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: all of the details of how that gathering came together, 741 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: but like many that summer, it was almost surely a 742 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,439 Speaker 1: spur of the moment gathering. I truly wish I could 743 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: be more helpful with more detailed answers to all of 744 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 1: the questions that have and will be asked about how 745 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 1: I got to the party, and where it took place 746 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: and so forth. I don't have all the answers, and 747 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: I don't remember as much as I would like to, 748 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: but the details that about that night that bring me 749 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: here today are the ones I will never forget. They 750 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: have been seared into my memory and have haunted me 751 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: episodically as an adult. When I got to the small gathering, 752 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: people were drinking beer in a small living room family 753 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: room type area on the first floor of the house. 754 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: I drank one beer. Brett and Mark were visibly drunk. 755 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: Early in the evening, I went up a very narrow 756 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: set of stairs leading from the living room to a 757 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: second floor to use the restroom. When I got to 758 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: the top of the stairs, I was pushed from behind 759 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: into a bedroom across from the bathroom. I couldn't see 760 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: who pushed me. Brett and Mark came into the bedroom 761 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: and locked the door behind them. There was music playing 762 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: in the bedroom. It was turned up louder by either 763 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: Brett or Mark. Once we were in the room, I 764 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,240 Speaker 1: was pushed onto the bed and Brett got on top 765 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: of me. He began running his hands over my body 766 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: and grinding into me. I yelled, hoping that someone downstairs 767 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: might hear me, and I tried to get away from him, 768 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,959 Speaker 1: but his weight was heavy. Brett groped me and tried 769 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: to take off my clothes. He had a heart time 770 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: because he was very inebriated, and because I was wearing 771 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,240 Speaker 1: a one piece bathing suit underneath my clothing. I believed 772 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: he was going to rape me. I tried to yell 773 00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: for help. When I did, Brett put his hand over 774 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: my mouth to stop me from yelling. This is what 775 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: terrified me the most and has had the most lasting 776 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: impact on my life. It was hard for me to breathe, 777 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: and I thought that Brett was accidentally going to kill me. 778 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: Both Brett and Mark were drunkenly laughing during the attack. 779 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: They seemed to be having a very good time. Mark 780 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: seemed ambivalent, at times urging Brett on and at times 781 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: telling him to stop. A couple of times I made 782 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: a contact with Mark and thought he might try to 783 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,879 Speaker 1: help me, but he did not. During this assault, Mark 784 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,040 Speaker 1: came over and jumped on the bed twice while it 785 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,799 Speaker 1: was on top of me, and the last time that 786 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: he did this, we toppled over and Brett was no 787 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: longer on top of me. I was able to get 788 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: up and run out of the room. Directly across from 789 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: the bedroom was a small bathroom. I ran inside the 790 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: bathroom and locked the door. I waited until I heard 791 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: Brett and Mark leave the bedroom laughing, and loudly walked 792 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 1: down the narrow stairway, pinballing off the walls on the 793 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 1: way down. I waited, and when I did not hear 794 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: them come back up the stairs, I left the bathroom, 795 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: went down the same stairwall through the living room, and 796 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: left the house. I remember being on the street and 797 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: feeling this enormous sense of relief that I escaped that 798 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: house and that Brett and Mark were not coming outside 799 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: after me. Brett's assault on me drastically altered my life. 800 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: For a very long time, I was too afraid and 801 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: ashamed to tell anyone these details. I did not want 802 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: to tell my parents that I, at age fifteen, was 803 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: in a house without any parents present, drinking beer with boys. 804 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 1: I convinced myself that because Brett did not rape me, 805 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: I should just move on and just pretend that it 806 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: didn't happen. Over the years, I told very very few 807 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: friends that I had this traumatic experience. I told my 808 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: husband before we were married that I had experienced a 809 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: sexual assault. I had never told the details to anyone, 810 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: the specific details until May two thousand twelve, during a 811 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: couple's counseling session. The reason this came up in counseling 812 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: is that my husband and I had completed a very extensive, 813 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: very long remodel of our home, and I insisted on 814 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: a second front door. Were an idea that he and 815 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:07,760 Speaker 1: others disagreed with and could not understand. And explaining why 816 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: I wanted a second front door, I began to describe 817 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,439 Speaker 1: the assault in detail. I recall saying that the boy 818 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,360 Speaker 1: who assaulted me could someday be on the U. S. 819 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and spoke a bit about his background at 820 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 1: an elitist all boys school in Bethess to Maryland. My 821 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: husband recalls that I named my attacker as Brett Kavanaugh. 822 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 1: Right now, it's all unfolding in front of the Senate 823 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee as we speak. Nancy Grace crime story, signing off, 824 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,