WEBVTT - Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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<v Speaker 1>Ruth Bader Ginsburg is an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 1>She was first appointed to the US Court of Appeals

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty by President Jimmy Carter, then to the

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court by President Bill Clinton. In Ginsburg is the

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<v Speaker 1>second out of only four female justices to ever be

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<v Speaker 1>confirmed to the Court. In nine the American Bar Association

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<v Speaker 1>gave her its coveted Thurgood Martial Award for her years

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<v Speaker 1>of advocacy for gender equality, civil rights, and social justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Ginsburg sat down with David Rubinstein, co founder of the

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<v Speaker 1>Carlisle Group and host of the Bloomberg television show Peer

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<v Speaker 1>to Peer Conversations, to discuss her health, that ascent that

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<v Speaker 1>earned her the nickname of the Notorious RBG, and politics

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<v Speaker 1>on the Supreme Court. Let me ask you a question

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<v Speaker 1>at the beginning, how does it feel to get up

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning and know that three thirty million Americans

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<v Speaker 1>want to know the state of your health that day?

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<v Speaker 1>How does it feel encouraging? As Kansas survivors know that

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<v Speaker 1>dread disease is a challenge, and it helps to know

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<v Speaker 1>that people are rooting for you. Now, it's not universal.

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<v Speaker 1>When I had pagriat a cancer. In two thousand nine,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a senator whose name I don't recall, but

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<v Speaker 1>he said I would be dead within six months. That

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<v Speaker 1>senator is now no longer alive. But you can't remember

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<v Speaker 1>his name? No, I don't remember you. Um. But your

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<v Speaker 1>current view is that as long as you're healthy and

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<v Speaker 1>able to do the job, you intend to stay on

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<v Speaker 1>the court. Is that correct? As long as I'm healthy

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<v Speaker 1>and mentally agile. Right? So now, Justice Stevens and later

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<v Speaker 1>and previously Justice uh Oliver winder Holmes, they were tired

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<v Speaker 1>when they were ninety. Would you like to break their

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<v Speaker 1>record or any thought about that? I spent the first

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<v Speaker 1>week in July with Justice Stevens what turned out to

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<v Speaker 1>be the last week of his life. He was remarkable.

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<v Speaker 1>He was nine years old. Since he left the Court

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<v Speaker 1>at age nine, he's written four books. So yes, he's

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<v Speaker 1>my real model. So UM. Today, many people think that

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<v Speaker 1>the Court is very political, that people appointed to the

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<v Speaker 1>Court by Democratic presidents and those appointed by Republican presidents

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<v Speaker 1>tend to follow the political desires of the Republican or

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<v Speaker 1>Democratic party. Do you think that's a fair assessment? And

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<v Speaker 1>why do you think If it's not fair? People have

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<v Speaker 1>that view. People have that view because agreement is an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting disagreement is so the press tends to play up

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<v Speaker 1>our five four or our five three decisions. But if

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<v Speaker 1>we can take just the last term as a typical example,

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<v Speaker 1>we had sixty eight decisions after full briefing and argument

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<v Speaker 1>of those twenty world five four or five three divisions,

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<v Speaker 1>but twenty nine were unanimous. So we agree more often

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<v Speaker 1>than we sharply disagree. And that's something I would like

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<v Speaker 1>the audience to take away that the divisions, yes, they

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<v Speaker 1>are on some very important questions, but our agreement rate

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<v Speaker 1>is always higher than our disagreement rate. So if you

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<v Speaker 1>have a five to four perspective decision, there's one of

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<v Speaker 1>the justices go to the another justice and say, why

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<v Speaker 1>don't you change your mind? Does that work very much?

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<v Speaker 1>Or there's no more upstrating at the court what he says,

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<v Speaker 1>if you vote for me on this one, I'll vote

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<v Speaker 1>for you on that one. That doesn't happen. It never happens.

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<v Speaker 1>But we are constantly trying to persuade each other, and

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<v Speaker 1>most often we do it through our writing. Every time

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<v Speaker 1>I write a descent before I am hopeful that I

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<v Speaker 1>can pick up a vote many people are surprised that

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<v Speaker 1>the civility that exists between justices even though they write

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<v Speaker 1>not such favorable things about each other. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>Justice Scalia used to say not such wonderful things about

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<v Speaker 1>your views, and you then still went to the opera

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<v Speaker 1>with him. Was that a little awkward or hard to do?

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<v Speaker 1>And not at all? And Justice Lean and I became

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<v Speaker 1>friends when we were buddies on the d C circuit.

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<v Speaker 1>What did I love most about him? His infectious sense

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<v Speaker 1>of humor. When we were three judges on the Court

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<v Speaker 1>of Appeals, he sometimes whispered something to me. It would

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<v Speaker 1>crack me up. I had all I could do to

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<v Speaker 1>contain hysterical laughter. But we had much in common. True,

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<v Speaker 1>our styles were very different, but both of us cared

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<v Speaker 1>a lot about writing opinions so that at least other

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<v Speaker 1>lawyers and judges will understand what we were saying. Both

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<v Speaker 1>of you were and you still are a great opera lover.

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<v Speaker 1>Where did you get your love of opera to begin with?

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<v Speaker 1>And where did the opera Scalia Ginsburg come from. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>take you the first question first. My love of opera

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<v Speaker 1>began when I was eleven years old. I was in

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<v Speaker 1>grade school, in Brooklyn, New York. My aunt, who was

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<v Speaker 1>middle school junior high school English teacher, took me to

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<v Speaker 1>high school in Brooklyn where an opera was being performed.

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<v Speaker 1>It was La Gia Conda, not a likely choice for

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<v Speaker 1>first opera. There was a man at the time named

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<v Speaker 1>Dean Dixon whose mission in life was to turn children

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<v Speaker 1>onto beautiful music, and he had an all city orchestra.

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<v Speaker 1>He took opera performances around to various schools, condensed them

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<v Speaker 1>into one hour, narrated in between. They were costumes bear staging.

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<v Speaker 1>So of my introduction to opera was thanks to Dean

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<v Speaker 1>Dixon in ninety four. So the Scalia Ginsburg Opera was

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<v Speaker 1>written by a law school student. He was then a

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<v Speaker 1>law school student. He was a music major at Harvard

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<v Speaker 1>and the masses in music from Yale. Dirk Wang is

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<v Speaker 1>his name. He decided it would be useful to know

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<v Speaker 1>something about the law, so he enrolled in his hometown

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<v Speaker 1>law school with University of Maryland, and in his second

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<v Speaker 1>year he took a constitutional law course. He read these

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<v Speaker 1>dueling opinions Scali on one side, Ginsburg on the other,

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<v Speaker 1>and decided this could make a very funny opera. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just give you a taste of Scley Higginsburg. It

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<v Speaker 1>opens with Scalia's rage aria. It's an a very Handelian

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<v Speaker 1>in style, and he sings the justices a blind how

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<v Speaker 1>can they possibly spout this? The Constitution says absolutely nothing

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<v Speaker 1>about this. And then, in my color of true a

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<v Speaker 1>soprano voice, I answered, dear Justice, Scalia, you are surging

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<v Speaker 1>for bright line solutions the problems that don't have easy answers.

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<v Speaker 1>But the great thing about our constitution is that, like

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<v Speaker 1>our society, it can evolve, so that that sets up

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<v Speaker 1>the difference between us. The plot of Scalia Agginsburg is

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<v Speaker 1>roughly based on the Magic Flu and Scalia is locked

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<v Speaker 1>up in a dog room. He's being punished for excessive dissenting.

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<v Speaker 1>I then emerged through a glass ceiling and to help

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<v Speaker 1>him pass the tests he needs to pass to get

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<v Speaker 1>out of the dog room. Then a character left over

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<v Speaker 1>from Don Giovanni the commentatory it is astonished. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>he's your enemy, why would you want to help him?

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<v Speaker 1>And I sing, He's not my enemy, he's my dear friend,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we sing a wonderful duet that those we

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<v Speaker 1>are different, we are one different. Enough approach to reading

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<v Speaker 1>legal texts, but one in our reverence for the Constitution

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<v Speaker 1>and for the institution we serve. So most justices of

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme courter relatively not recognized by the public. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say maybe in recent years that changed a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>But you are extremely well known around the country now,

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<v Speaker 1>but you weren't when you went on the court. But

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<v Speaker 1>now you've become more or less a rock star um RBG,

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<v Speaker 1>and you have movies about you on the basis of

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<v Speaker 1>sex and other things. So why do you think this

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<v Speaker 1>has occurred? And is this something you don't really enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>that much or something you just think comes with the territory. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>how is the notorious on BG created? It was the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of a second year student at ny U Law

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<v Speaker 1>School who was very disappointed in the Court's decision in

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<v Speaker 1>the Shelby County case. And that was a case in

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<v Speaker 1>which is the Court declared unconstitutional the key provision of

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<v Speaker 1>the Voting Rights Act of nine, an act that had

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<v Speaker 1>been renewed time and again by overwhelming majorities both sides

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<v Speaker 1>of the aisle, but the Supreme Court struck down the formula.

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<v Speaker 1>The way the Voting Acts Act worked was if you

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<v Speaker 1>were a state or a city or a county that

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<v Speaker 1>kept African Americans from voting. In the NAZA litt old days,

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<v Speaker 1>you could not make any change in voting legislation m

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<v Speaker 1>unless you precleared it with the Department of Justice Civil

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<v Speaker 1>Rights Division, or with a three judge district court and

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<v Speaker 1>the District of Columbia. So that advanced check suppress many

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<v Speaker 1>laws that would have discourage African Americans from voting. The

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court said, well, the formula for who was discriminating

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<v Speaker 1>is now out of date. Caylus needs to do it

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<v Speaker 1>over because jurisdictions that were discriminating in may have clean

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<v Speaker 1>hands today. The political problem was, what member of Congress,

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<v Speaker 1>what senator, what representative would stand up and say, my state, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>my city, or my county is still discriminating. So keep

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<v Speaker 1>it under the surveillance that the voting writes that provides

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<v Speaker 1>just wasn't going to happen. The Act itself had a

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<v Speaker 1>bailout provision, so if a state, city, county indeed had

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<v Speaker 1>clean hands for several elections, it could bail out. And

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<v Speaker 1>that device, I thought was was all that was needed.

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<v Speaker 1>But in any event, this student was disturbed about the

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<v Speaker 1>Court's decision. She was angry, and then she said to herself,

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<v Speaker 1>anger is not a useful emotion. I'm going to do

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<v Speaker 1>something positive. And what she did but she took the

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<v Speaker 1>announcement of my descent that I read from the bench

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<v Speaker 1>in Shelby County, and she created this blog Hiding at

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<v Speaker 1>the Notorious Albig, a name she got from a well

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<v Speaker 1>known rapper who was called the Notorious b I G.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I was asked, well, what in the world

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<v Speaker 1>you have in common with the Notorious B I G?

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<v Speaker 1>I said, It's obvious both of us were born and

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<v Speaker 1>bred in Brooklyn, New York. So now you were born

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<v Speaker 1>in Brendon, Brooklyn, you have still a bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>Brooklyn accent, you might admit. Um you were played in

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<v Speaker 1>a movie by Felicity Jones, who was not Jewish, shore

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<v Speaker 1>from Brooklyn. So how do you think she did? I

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<v Speaker 1>thought you is fantastic. When I first met Felicity, I said,

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<v Speaker 1>you speak the Queens English. How are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>sound like a girl born in bred in Brooklyn. But

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<v Speaker 1>she listened to many tapes of my speeches and my

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<v Speaker 1>arguments at the court, and she was wonderful. So in

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<v Speaker 1>recent years you've also got a lot of attention for

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<v Speaker 1>your exercise. Uh. I have been with the same personal

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<v Speaker 1>trainer since when I had my first stance about I

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<v Speaker 1>had chelocal cancer and my dear husband said, after going

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<v Speaker 1>through surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, I looked like a survivor of Auschwitz.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, you must do something to burg yourself up.

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<v Speaker 1>Get a personal trainer, And that's when I started in.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I get so absorbed in my work I just

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to let go. But when it comes time

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<v Speaker 1>to meet my train, I drop everything, and as tired

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<v Speaker 1>as I may be in the beginning, I always feel

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<v Speaker 1>much better when we finished. Okay, so you met your

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<v Speaker 1>husband Marty. You were married for fifty six years. You

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<v Speaker 1>met him at Cornell? Is that right? Yes? I met

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<v Speaker 1>when I was seventeen and he was eighteen. And what

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<v Speaker 1>is the likelihood of a woman at Cornell meeting somebody

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<v Speaker 1>they marry and that person wants to take care of

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<v Speaker 1>child rearing and also cooking um as well as sharing

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<v Speaker 1>all the other burdens of being married. Is that a

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<v Speaker 1>very common thing in your observation or it was extraordinary

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<v Speaker 1>at any time, particularly in the nine teen fifties. Cornell,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, had a four to one ratio of

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<v Speaker 1>four men to every woman. It was the place parents

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to send their daughters. So you couldn't find your

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<v Speaker 1>manner Cornel. You were hopeless. So then I met Marty,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was, in fact the first boy I ever

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<v Speaker 1>knew who cared that I had a brain. He was

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<v Speaker 1>always my biggest booster. The cooking that began. I had

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<v Speaker 1>two years between college and law school, and Marty was

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<v Speaker 1>in service. Those two years. We spent in Fort Sill, Oklahoma,

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<v Speaker 1>the principal artillery base. I got pregnant during the first year,

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<v Speaker 1>and when I back went back to do Off to

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<v Speaker 1>give my cousin sent Marty a copy of the Escaper

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<v Speaker 1>Cookbook in English translation and said, this will give you

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<v Speaker 1>something to do while your wife is away. So Monty

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<v Speaker 1>had originally been a chemistry major at Cornell, and he

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<v Speaker 1>treated this Escofa a cookbook like the chemistry textbook. He

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<v Speaker 1>started with the basic stocks and worked his way through it.

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<v Speaker 1>He gave up chemistry because it interfered with golf practice.

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<v Speaker 1>Why was a great golfer, And then he switched to government,

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<v Speaker 1>which is was my major. He attributed his skill in

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<v Speaker 1>the kitchen to two women, his mother and his wife,

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<v Speaker 1>his mother. I think was that was an unfair judgment,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was certainly right about me. I had one cookbook.

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<v Speaker 1>It was called the sixty minutes Chelf, and that meant

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 1>from when you enter the apartment until when it's on

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:16.840
<v Speaker 1>the table, no more than sixty minutes. I had seven

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.000
<v Speaker 1>things that I made, and we got to number seven,

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 1>we went back to number one. Of Martin's mother, ever

0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.320
<v Speaker 1>give you any advice when you met her, she happily married.

0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 1>She gave me some wonderful advice. We were married in

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>her home and she said, just before the ceremony started, dear,

0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to tell you the secret of a happy marriage.

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to hear it. What is it? Every now

0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and then she said, it helps to be a little death,

0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>which is such wonderful advice. I haven't followed it assiduously

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:10.720
<v Speaker 1>to this very day. If I'm dealing with my colleagues

0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:16.200
<v Speaker 1>as someone a Valontine word is said. I just turned out.

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.040
<v Speaker 1>So as a result of your marriage to Marty, who

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.119
<v Speaker 1>was a distinguished law professor and tax lawyer as well,

0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:29.320
<v Speaker 1>you have two children. Jane, your daughter, It teaches at Columbia.

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>She is the martinel. Jack Low professor of Literary and

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Artistic Property Law at Columbia Law School. And as I

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>understand that you and she were the only mother daughter

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 1>team to ever actually be elected to the Harvard Law Review.

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Is that true so far? And you have a son

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:56.720
<v Speaker 1>who's in the music business. James makes exquisite compact this.

0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.399
<v Speaker 1>James grew up with a passion from music, but no

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.600
<v Speaker 1>talent as a performer. So when he went to the

0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 1>University of Chicago, he was the classical disc jockey on

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.960
<v Speaker 1>the student radio station. Then in the years he was

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.440
<v Speaker 1>dropping in and out of law school, he was also

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:21.960
<v Speaker 1>making recordings. And one day he told us he liked

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>what he was doing much more than his law classes.

0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.160
<v Speaker 1>So we said, fine, that's what you want to do.

0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 1>And today his label is c D and his recordings

0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 1>are Jim's. Do you have any grandchildren? I have four grandchildren,

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:48.960
<v Speaker 1>two step grandchildren, and one great grandchild. And what do

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:53.719
<v Speaker 1>your your grandchildren call you? RBG or what do they

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 1>call you? I'm a Jewish grandmother, so I'm called Bubby. Okay.

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.119
<v Speaker 1>That was Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg speaking with David ruben

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Stein