Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. The Wold His Dreams Uh. Addition,
Speaker 1: as the Bengals look to extend their playoff hopes to
Speaker 1: the final week of the regular season with a win
Speaker 1: over the Denver Broncos. Coming up, I'll talk to Mike
Speaker 1: Hilton about his stellar play of late and the possibility
Speaker 1: of returning to the Bengals next year. Robert Weintraub writes
Speaker 1: about the Bengals for Cincinnati Magazine and other outlets. Discusses
Speaker 1: the good, the bad, and the ugly from twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: and in this week's Know the Foux Conversation, we'll get
Speaker 1: an in depth look at the Broncos from Beat reporter
Speaker 1: Mike Cliss. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you
Speaker 1: by pay Corps, Proud to be the Bengals official HR
Speaker 1: software provider by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
Speaker 1: elevate your home, business and community to a new level,
Speaker 1: and by kettering health the best care for the the
Speaker 1: best fans, Cattering Health is the official healthcare provider of
Speaker 1: the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder that you can
Speaker 1: have the latest edition of this podcast delivered. Write to
Speaker 1: your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: recognition for an all time Bengals great. In twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: the Pro Football Hall of Fame established the Awards of
Speaker 1: Excellence to recognize significant contributors to the game in behind
Speaker 1: the scenes roles, such as assistant coaches, equipment managers, and
Speaker 1: PR directors. This year's class includes former Bengals offensive line
Speaker 1: coach Jim McNally. Jim held that role in Cincinnati from
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety four, meaning he was the
Speaker 1: O line coach for the bengals first two Super Bowl
Speaker 1: teams and the only O line coach that Anthony Munoz
Speaker 1: had in the NFL. He later returned to the Bengals
Speaker 1: as a consultant before retiring last year. This year's class
Speaker 1: will be honored at a luncheon in Canton next June. Now,
Speaker 1: let's get to my first guest. One of my biggest
Speaker 1: pet peeves is when the national media says the Bengals
Speaker 1: aren't willing to spend money in free agency. In the
Speaker 1: last five years, alone, Cincinnati has signed d J. Reeder,
Speaker 1: Trey Hendrickson, Chitdebeya, Wouje, Ted Karris, Alex Kappa, Orlando Brown Junior,
Speaker 1: and Mike Kasiki, among others, And when it comes to
Speaker 1: bang for the buck, it would be hard to top
Speaker 1: the signing of Mike Hilton, who's given the Bengals four
Speaker 1: great seasons for an average of six million dollars a year.
Speaker 1: I caught up with the Bengals five foot nine, one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty four pounds slot corner this week. Mike,
Speaker 1: You've got five tackles for loss in the last two weeks.
Speaker 1: Are you doing anything differently?
Speaker 2: No, I'm just being myself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Louis utilizing me a lot more lately in when then
Speaker 3: when I had the opportunity to make the play, you know,
Speaker 3: once I get back there, that's all that's all I
Speaker 3: think about, is making that play.
Speaker 1: For the season. You're up to twelve tackles for loss.
Speaker 1: That's tied for fifteenth in the league. The fourteen guys
Speaker 1: ahead of you are all defensive linemen or edge players.
Speaker 1: How significant is that stat to you?
Speaker 2: That's big.
Speaker 3: I bring a different, different type of play to the position,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Not a lot of guys
Speaker 3: my size can do what I do. And when I
Speaker 3: go out there, I just try to be a playmaker.
Speaker 3: And obviously having that type of stats, that's a good
Speaker 3: sign and I'm just trying to, you know, keep building.
Speaker 1: My broadcast partner Dave Lapham says the TfL should be
Speaker 1: treated like sacks. It's a loss of down, it's a
Speaker 1: loss of yardage. They don't seem to get the same publicity, should.
Speaker 2: They, I would believe so.
Speaker 3: Obviously, you know, it's the difference between a handoff and
Speaker 3: the drop back. But if you're tackling the quarterback before
Speaker 3: you even hands the hands the ball out to the
Speaker 3: running back, I feel like should be considered a sack.
Speaker 2: But you know, either way, I'm just happy to make
Speaker 2: the play.
Speaker 1: The team gave up a season low six points last week.
Speaker 1: You made a reference after the game in the locker
Speaker 1: room that lou Ariromo has simplified things a little bit
Speaker 1: in what ways really just keeping.
Speaker 3: Us out of multiple calls. I mean, officers are gonna
Speaker 3: move and we have to adjust. But sometimes he's just
Speaker 3: letting us play this one call where we're lining up
Speaker 3: playing fast and doing what we do, so it kind
Speaker 3: of slows everybody's thinking down and just let them react
Speaker 3: more and you know, putting themselves in position to make plays.
Speaker 1: We're visiting with Mike Hilton. The defensive player of the
Speaker 1: game was the fifth play of the game, Von Bell
Speaker 1: forcing and recovering that fumble inside the one. Von was
Speaker 1: recently taken out of the starting lineup. He's playing on
Speaker 1: special teams now, kick coverage, punt return, doing what he
Speaker 1: can to contribute. What's your respect level for Von Bell?
Speaker 3: I have a lot of straight of Vine. You know,
Speaker 3: he's a pros pro. He's always one of the first
Speaker 3: guys in here, one of the last leave. Obviously his
Speaker 3: roles diminished, but he hasn't had little whether who he
Speaker 3: is as a player. You know, he goes out there
Speaker 3: and competes, and obviously on Sunday he's still able to
Speaker 3: make big plays and game changing plays.
Speaker 1: Gino Stone has an interception now in three straight. What
Speaker 1: stands out about his.
Speaker 2: Play his range. Obviously he's able to go sideline.
Speaker 3: And sideline the way he's able to track the ball
Speaker 3: and make plays on the ball. So he's been playing
Speaker 3: wells of late, you know, and as a corner where
Speaker 3: you got to a post safety like that, you feel
Speaker 3: a lot more comfortable.
Speaker 1: You guys have kept your playoff chances alive by winning
Speaker 1: three straight games. As I look back over the season,
Speaker 1: I could pick out five plays that are really the
Speaker 1: difference between competing for the number one seed and being
Speaker 1: where you are right now. Is there a little bit
Speaker 1: of a what if in the back of your mind?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: We know it's a field goal here, a stop here,
Speaker 3: one more drive by the offense there. It's little things
Speaker 3: that we know if we make that play, you know,
Speaker 3: our records totally different.
Speaker 2: But the thing about it, we can't. We can't do
Speaker 2: it on it. We are where we are right.
Speaker 3: Now and we're giving ourselves a chance, so things obviously
Speaker 3: have to fall our way. But if we go out
Speaker 3: and execute and do our job, you know, who knows
Speaker 3: what can happen.
Speaker 1: What's Denver doing well on offense.
Speaker 3: Running the ball or obviously running the ball well, putting
Speaker 3: bow nicks in good situations, second and short, third in
Speaker 3: short just make him, you know, play within hisself, not
Speaker 3: trying to not try to do too much.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna have a good game plan for him.
Speaker 2: This weekend. We're gonna make a difficult for him.
Speaker 1: Several weeks ago, Joe Burrow has asked about quarterbacks that
Speaker 1: he's been watching this year, and he brought up Bonet,
Speaker 1: which kind of surprised me. I didn't expect that to
Speaker 1: be somebody he would mention, what is it about Bonix
Speaker 1: that's impressed people around the league?
Speaker 3: Oh, he's playing well in the Champagne system. He's moving
Speaker 3: outside the pocket. He's a better athlete than giving credit for,
Speaker 3: so he's extended plays, he's not turned over the ball,
Speaker 3: which is obviously a plus, and he's just keeping their
Speaker 3: offense in rhythm. So he's playing well and it's gonna
Speaker 3: be a good challenge for Saturday.
Speaker 1: Visiting with Mike Hilton. This is the final year of
Speaker 1: the four year deal that you signed back in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one. It's going to go down as one of
Speaker 1: the great free agent signings in Bengals history. What's next
Speaker 1: for you? Do you definitely want to keep playing?
Speaker 3: Oh, definitely, I would. I actually love to be here.
Speaker 3: You know, I obviously know the nature of the business,
Speaker 3: so you never know. But I feel like I still
Speaker 3: have so much left in me and I can bring
Speaker 3: a lot of value to different teams. So we'll see
Speaker 3: how I'll season comes when that time arrives. But right now,
Speaker 3: focused on these guys and trying to get this win Saturday.
Speaker 1: You're thirty, you're eight years in. You've accomplished a ton
Speaker 1: for playoff teams, a trip to the Super Bowl. Has
Speaker 1: reality exceeded your dreams?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It has obviously.
Speaker 3: Being undrafted, how far I've come, how hard I've worked
Speaker 3: to see myself reach this point.
Speaker 2: It's a blessing.
Speaker 3: And then to realize I'm still not done yet and
Speaker 3: I got a lot more ahead of me. It's the
Speaker 3: best thing in the world.
Speaker 2: Man. I'm just trying to embrace it day by day.
Speaker 1: Do you see football being in your future for many
Speaker 1: years to come? You strike me as somebody that could
Speaker 1: be a great coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: You know, I definitely want to get into it after football.
Speaker 3: Obviously things change once I'm actually done, but you know,
Speaker 3: my plan is to get in the coach and then
Speaker 3: go from there.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on great play of late, best of luck against
Speaker 1: the Broncos.
Speaker 2: Thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Mike has fifth onund the team in tackles and second
Speaker 1: in tackles for loss three behind Trey Hendrick said. One
Speaker 1: of the best writers covering the Bengals so from his
Speaker 1: home near Atlanta. His name is Robert Weintraub, and he
Speaker 1: writes an excellent weekly column about the team for Cincinnati
Speaker 1: Magazine dot com. You can read it for free. Robert
Speaker 1: was in the Cincinnati area on business last week, so
Speaker 1: he took the opportunity to cover the game in person,
Speaker 1: and a few days later we caught up to discuss
Speaker 1: this season and beyond. Robert, of the many things that
Speaker 1: have been written and said about Joe Burrow over the years,
Speaker 1: you are responsible for my all time favorite line. When
Speaker 1: he was drafted, you said that Joe has awesomeness oozing
Speaker 1: out of every poor He has obviously been awesome this year.
Speaker 1: Is Joe Burrow worthy of MVP consideration?
Speaker 4: Yeah, somehow he's found a few more pores to be
Speaker 4: awesome out of. I didn't think that was possible. But
Speaker 4: he's got some kind of cleanser going on or skincare
Speaker 4: regimen that's obviously working. Yeah, I mean obviously, first and foremost.
Speaker 4: When MVP voters think to themselves, who's going to get
Speaker 4: it this year, they look to a one win loss
Speaker 4: record and that's you know, obviously what is working against Joe.
Speaker 4: But I mean, given the fact of what he's been
Speaker 4: having to work with, and the offensive line and the
Speaker 4: defense and so many other conditions around him, it's hard
Speaker 4: for me to say he hasn't had an MVP level season.
Speaker 4: He's not going to win it. But I mean, if
Speaker 4: you put up his numbers, they're right alongside, you know,
Speaker 4: the Josh Allens and Lamar Jackson Jackson's and even the
Speaker 4: possibility of a dare i say, a running back or
Speaker 4: some other non quarterback position winning a Saquon Barkley. Perhaps
Speaker 4: Burrows numbers are certainly in the same stratosphere. And just
Speaker 4: from a degree of difficulty standpoint, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 4: I think if they had just flipped the results of
Speaker 4: the two Ravens games and pin one of those losses
Speaker 4: on Lamar's fumble there in overtime, and the Bengals just
Speaker 4: win those two, you know, the Bengals wouldn't be you know,
Speaker 4: dominating or having a huge win loss record season necessarily
Speaker 4: thirteen to four or whatever, but it would look just
Speaker 4: good enough, I think to maybe get Burrel a few
Speaker 4: extra votes there, and possibly even sneak out. The ward
Speaker 4: not going to happen, but he's certainly deserving in such
Speaker 4: a shame. He had such a great season this year
Speaker 4: and the rest of the team really didn't live up
Speaker 4: to it.
Speaker 1: They might not have an MVP winner, but they could
Speaker 1: have a Triple Crown winner. Jamar Chase leads the so
Speaker 1: called triple Crown categories as a receiver, catches, yards, and touchdowns.
Speaker 1: It's only been done four times since nineteen seventy. Is
Speaker 1: there anything in particular about his season that impresses you?
Speaker 4: Well, First and foremost, you think back to how it started,
Speaker 4: with the whole contract, you know, Concher Tommes, and the
Speaker 4: fact he only had what ten catches for ninety seven
Speaker 4: yards over the first two weeks of the season pedestrian numbers.
Speaker 4: Maybe he was distracted, Maybe it's just the way the
Speaker 4: games went. It's hard to really get into his head necessarily.
Speaker 4: But given the fact that he's had, he has this
Speaker 4: all world season going on, and that the numbers are
Speaker 4: so staggering when you kind of divided on a per
Speaker 4: game basis by thirteen instead of fifteen where we are now,
Speaker 4: they look even more impressive. He's just been so consistent
Speaker 4: after those first two weeks. So you know, just this
Speaker 4: past game against Cleveland, when he didn't really do a
Speaker 4: ton through most of the game, and yet he pops
Speaker 4: up right at the end for a touchdown catch a
Speaker 4: long one just kind of puts the icing on the cake.
Speaker 4: He's really just you know, put everything together as everything
Speaker 4: we knew that he was capable of and has shown
Speaker 4: already as a pro. I mean, hard to find a
Speaker 4: more finished product coming out of college ready to step
Speaker 4: onto an NFL field than Jamar Chase was, and yet
Speaker 4: he's still somehow almost exceeded expectations in that way. You know,
Speaker 4: when t Higgins has been out and missed a few games,
Speaker 4: they haven't lost a step offensively. Everybody knows that they're
Speaker 4: trying to get the ball to Chase at all times.
Speaker 4: And still you know, he puts up such staggering numbers,
Speaker 4: and not only that, but you know, makes huge plays
Speaker 4: at huge times, as we saw against Dallas for example.
Speaker 4: You know, it's really just you know, we talked about
Speaker 4: how Burrow has also beness out of every pore. Not
Speaker 4: too far behind is Jamar Chase, and there's a reason
Speaker 4: the two of them have been you know, sort of
Speaker 4: connected in the mind's eye ever since their LSU days.
Speaker 4: They work so well together, and it's just it's a
Speaker 4: joy to watch. Even in a season that's been disappointing
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, you always get to watch
Speaker 4: Burrow to Chase and that's something special.
Speaker 1: Despite the fact that he missed five games, t Higgins
Speaker 1: is putting up big numbers. He's tied his career high
Speaker 1: for touchdown catches this year. Joe has been vocal recently
Speaker 1: about expressing hope that Tea can be resigned after this season.
Speaker 1: It can be done. My question for you is should
Speaker 1: it be done?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm of two minds, and the reason
Speaker 4: why this is a fascinating sort of debate is that
Speaker 4: you can go either way with it and not be wrong.
Speaker 4: You know, obviously the team has a lot of needs,
Speaker 4: so you think to yourself, well, why spend more money
Speaker 4: on another receiver when you're going to obviously already spending
Speaker 4: a ton on Joe and you're gonna have to pay
Speaker 4: Jamar especially even more now after the season he's put up.
Speaker 4: At the same time, though, you know, first of all,
Speaker 4: if you look at the free agent lists, you know
Speaker 4: it's tough to keep just trying to trying to buy
Speaker 4: a team out of the store. A. B. Higgins is
Speaker 4: by far the most you know, highly thought of free
Speaker 4: agent out there. It's not like there's a ton of
Speaker 4: guys who are necessarily going to help the Bengals. They'll
Speaker 4: sign a few guys and they will certainly help, but
Speaker 4: they're all sort of you know, B two C plus
Speaker 4: players except for Tea out there really And another thing
Speaker 4: is that, first of all, Tea appears obviously to want
Speaker 4: to stay. He fired his agent, David Mulgetta, who's had
Speaker 4: a lot of difficult relations with the Bengals front office
Speaker 4: in the past, and you know, he's maing a lot
Speaker 4: of noises about, you know, wanted to stay with his
Speaker 4: with his buddies, with his friends Burrow and Chase. And
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of guys around the league
Speaker 4: who can't wait to step up, get the big money
Speaker 4: and be the number one guy, you know, And I
Speaker 4: don't know if he's built like that. Maybe he doesn't
Speaker 4: want to go and you know, try and catch passes
Speaker 4: from Drake may or whoever and be you know, under
Speaker 4: the spotlight constantly because of a huge contract. Maybe he's
Speaker 4: really happy playing with his buddies a little in the
Speaker 4: shadow of Jamar perhaps, but you know, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 4: with being in the shadow of such a great player
Speaker 4: like that, and he obviously they compliment each other so well.
Speaker 4: As you say, it's not like they can't resign them.
Speaker 4: You can argue whether it's you know, a proper roster
Speaker 4: building to put all your eggs in that basket so speak.
Speaker 4: But the Bengals have an identity. They have a you know,
Speaker 4: explosive passing game that other teams fear and always have
Speaker 4: to prepare for. And even then they're putting up tons
Speaker 4: of points every week. As we're seeing in this capacity,
Speaker 4: you're going away from one of your best year, letting
Speaker 4: one of your best players walk out the door for
Speaker 4: basically nothing. You're sending a message to the locker room
Speaker 4: again that a player you've drafted and developed and have
Speaker 4: seen emerged as one of the top players in the
Speaker 4: league is not going to be kept out. The team
Speaker 4: is in that sense not valued. And these things have
Speaker 4: a knock on effect. And I think in that sense
Speaker 4: it's because of everything that's going around behind the scenes
Speaker 4: with Burrows comments and the way everybody's been talking and
Speaker 4: the agent switch, and everything seems like it's all aligne
Speaker 4: that everybody wants him to stay here. It makes a
Speaker 4: lot of sense, and the team is so built and
Speaker 4: identified around that triumvirate one five nine, so to speak,
Speaker 4: that you really have to think long and hard before
Speaker 4: you let a guy like that walk out the door.
Speaker 1: There are some other free agents to be b J. Hill,
Speaker 1: Mike Hilton, Mike Kasicki, Joseph Osai and some others. Is
Speaker 1: there anybody on that list that you would like to
Speaker 1: see the Bengals bring back?
Speaker 4: Well? I certainly think Mike Kasecki's proven himself to be
Speaker 4: an interesting combination player with the aforementioned Chase and Higgins,
Speaker 4: and he gives them a lot. He's not a blocking
Speaker 4: tight end in any capacity. He's really the slot receiver
Speaker 4: that they lost when Tyler Boyd left in a lot
Speaker 4: of ways, and I think he's only really scratch the
Speaker 4: surface in some ways. With the amount of you know,
Speaker 4: attention you have to pay to the two wideouts, I
Speaker 4: think they can really build it even more of an
Speaker 4: offense using him down the seam and in certain you know,
Speaker 4: root combinations that they haven't really had a chance to do.
Speaker 4: Part of that is because of the offensive line play,
Speaker 4: various other rationales that we won't really dive into now necessarily,
Speaker 4: but I think he's been worth, you know, coming back,
Speaker 4: and I think he wants to come back. And who
Speaker 4: wouldn't want to play with Joe Burrow after all, And
Speaker 4: I think that's certainly a guy that I think Cincinnati
Speaker 4: would like to bring back and and use in feature,
Speaker 4: even in different ways than they have already as one year. Obviously,
Speaker 4: Mike Hilton, He's been here a long time. He's a
Speaker 4: valuable player. He's one of the few guys you can
Speaker 4: point to and say, you know, he may have had
Speaker 4: some issues this year along with the entire defense, but
Speaker 4: he hasn't really been at a position too much. He's
Speaker 4: been still a guy who is one of the few
Speaker 4: who can make splash plays, as they say, you know,
Speaker 4: around the pig skin circle, you know, tackles for losses
Speaker 4: in a good blitzer. I think it'd be hard to
Speaker 4: let him leave. He might want to go play in Tennessee,
Speaker 4: given the success he always seems to have against the Titans,
Speaker 4: But I think in general, there's another guy who you know,
Speaker 4: would be similar to when they let Von Bell leave
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago and rude the day because
Speaker 4: of what he brought to the team, not just on
Speaker 4: the field, but just institutional knowledge. You know, BJ Hill
Speaker 4: is a case is interesting. You can certainly make a
Speaker 4: case either way. It would sort of depend on what
Speaker 4: they could get him back in the fold. For I
Speaker 4: think they'd like to try and keep them. Obviously, the
Speaker 4: young players have only started to step forward at that position,
Speaker 4: and they still have a void there. You know, it's
Speaker 4: the kind of case where even if you look to
Speaker 4: next year and say, all right, Chris Jenkins is ready
Speaker 4: to step forward and you have a good run stuffer
Speaker 4: and McKinley Jackson, who are you know, rookies who are
Speaker 4: just sort of getting their feet into the deep end
Speaker 4: of the pool. Now, if you let Hill leave, that
Speaker 4: still leaves you with a void there, and depending on
Speaker 4: who you bring in replaced him, that's gonna be tight.
Speaker 4: So I think in those cases, I think all three
Speaker 4: of those guys they would be interested in bringing back.
Speaker 4: I think the Bengals fandom would like to see them
Speaker 4: all back in stripes as well. Oh Si, you know
Speaker 4: comes Comsa again. You know he has never lived up
Speaker 4: to the billing. That what he was drafted and what
Speaker 4: we thought we were getting. He's had moments and flashes. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: it does seem like he'll always be remembered for that
Speaker 4: one penalty against Patrick Mahomes in the AFC Championship game,
Speaker 4: and it's it's a shame.
Speaker 5: For the kid.
Speaker 4: You feel bad for him, but he never really put
Speaker 4: that behind him in any way on the field. So again,
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of that depends on what other
Speaker 4: offers these guys will get. You know, we never thought
Speaker 4: Jermaine Pratt, for example, would come back to Cincinnati, and
Speaker 4: he wound up coming back, so for better or worse.
Speaker 4: Uh So we'll see if some of these guys who
Speaker 4: we think are headed out the door actually wind up
Speaker 4: getting offers elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Robert, the Bengals have won three in a row. You
Speaker 1: were in attendance at Peyk Horse Stadium last week when
Speaker 1: they beat the Cleveland Browns. You've seen some positive signs
Speaker 1: on defense during this three game winning stream.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I like to think the pregame pep talk I gave
Speaker 4: to the guys beforehand was a key element to it.
Speaker 4: I always wanted to jump in that circle and just
Speaker 4: hype everybody up. You know who doesn't want to do that.
Speaker 4: I don't want to get hit though, so it's a problem. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean it, certainly they've played better. I think you'd
Speaker 4: be inarguably, they say that they've played some pretty poor
Speaker 4: quarterbacks and offenses as well. Cooper rushed the best of them,
Speaker 4: and you know, while he's had some success, let's not
Speaker 4: put him in the Peyton Manning category just yet. And obviously,
Speaker 4: you know dtr on this past Sunday was was pretty laughable,
Speaker 4: unfortunately for the kids. So you know that helps. But
Speaker 4: I do think that they're playing much freer. Even lou
Speaker 4: An or Rumos talked about simplifying matters, and the players
Speaker 4: themselves have said it's a lot easier for us to
Speaker 4: comprehend our assignments. At the moment, you could be safe
Speaker 4: in asking why that wasn't the case maybe earlier in
Speaker 4: the season, especially with so many young players. I think
Speaker 4: there's a case to be made that lou An Arumo
Speaker 4: kind of brought in his very complicated style that he
Speaker 4: saw a lot of veteran players play very effectively over
Speaker 4: the last past couple of years and assumed or thought
Speaker 4: that some of the young guys would just step right
Speaker 4: in and learn it as well, and that proved not
Speaker 4: to be the case. There was just so much hesitation,
Speaker 4: so many guys who were a step behind, bad angles, communications, breakdowns,
Speaker 4: things like that that are you know, not a real
Speaker 4: slight on a player's ability to play the position, but
Speaker 4: just you know, how you play as a team, and
Speaker 4: you know, so the Bengals never really had a bunch
Speaker 4: of superstar defensive players outside of Trey Hendrickson even when
Speaker 4: they were at their best and Jesse Bates. But what
Speaker 4: they did was play together extremely well. Everybody knew their
Speaker 4: assignment and carried it out. And you really saw that
Speaker 4: fall off over the past you know, year and a
Speaker 4: half and I think they've gotten back to playing much
Speaker 4: more in that capacity over the past few weeks, and
Speaker 4: the young kids have stepped forward and played well. Chris
Speaker 4: jenkinses we talked about, seems like he's getting his feet
Speaker 4: really underneath them. Jordan Battle, who you know, flashed a
Speaker 4: lot last year and then you know, was in the
Speaker 4: doghouse at the beginning of the year, but now is
Speaker 4: really showing again why they thought so highly of him.
Speaker 4: And even a player like Josh Newton who has you know,
Speaker 4: had to play because of injuries, and he's been you know,
Speaker 4: he's had his ups and downs like all young players,
Speaker 4: but he's played pretty well. Certainly the last couple of
Speaker 4: weeks he's been much more sticky in coverage than he
Speaker 4: was in his first few games. So you know, there
Speaker 4: are some definite positives. It's just you think to yourself,
Speaker 4: if only this could have happened a little earlier in
Speaker 4: the season, things might be so much.
Speaker 1: Different going forward. What are some of the priorities for
Speaker 1: being back in Super Bowl contention as soon as possible.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean some of the things that we talked
Speaker 4: about obviously already is you know, prioritizing the money where
Speaker 4: you're going to spend next year's free agent dollars. They
Speaker 4: have to improve the pass rush to me first and
Speaker 4: foremost so much we talk about what we said about
Speaker 4: guys being you know, a step slow or out of
Speaker 4: position or not communicating. Well, a lot of that stuff
Speaker 4: gets erased when you have a good pass rush, and
Speaker 4: we saw that just on Sunday against Cleveland. How you know,
Speaker 4: it didn't really even matter half the time who was
Speaker 4: breaking open deep down the field because Thompson Robinson just
Speaker 4: had no time to throw the ball half on half
Speaker 4: of his dropbacks, and that that really is a magic
Speaker 4: eraser in so many ways, and so much of this
Speaker 4: season has been lost because of the fact that other
Speaker 4: than Hendrickson, they're just not getting any rush on the
Speaker 4: quarterback consistently. So, you know, that would certainly be a
Speaker 4: priority one A for me. The guard play on the
Speaker 4: offensive line obviously has to improve. They may want to
Speaker 4: move around and see what else they can find, both
Speaker 4: in the draft and the free agent market, but I
Speaker 4: think the interior of the offensive line and obviously the
Speaker 4: pass rush are you know, again on the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 4: We talked about it last offseasons to the point where
Speaker 4: it just got to be a cliche. They had to
Speaker 4: fix the trenches. They still got to fix the trenches,
Speaker 4: and you know, until that gets sorted out, they're probably
Speaker 4: not going to be able to get back to that
Speaker 4: championship level.
Speaker 1: The Bengals can keep their playoff hopes alive if they
Speaker 1: beat the Denver Broncos on Saturday. What are going to
Speaker 1: be some keys to coming away with a victory in
Speaker 1: that game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting case because you have a team
Speaker 4: in Denver that likes to play defense, likes to run
Speaker 4: the ball, and when they don't do those things well,
Speaker 4: especially run the ball, they they've had some struggles. They're actually,
Speaker 4: surprisingly enough, given the Bengals struggles in one score games,
Speaker 4: Denver is only one in five in one score games,
Speaker 4: I believe, So you know, it's a situation where they
Speaker 4: have a rookie quarterback they can only win in a
Speaker 4: certain circumscribed way, and their defensive pressure upfront they lead
Speaker 4: the NFL in sacks, and you know what they can
Speaker 4: get in the back end. They have obviously an outstanding
Speaker 4: number one cornerback, Patrick Setan, but surprisingly enough, they are
Speaker 4: very low in terms of guarding the enemy number one
Speaker 4: wide receiver, both in DVOA the efficiency stat that were
Speaker 4: known for at FTN, and also in yards per game.
Speaker 4: So Jamar chase is the Ears are pricking up, no
Speaker 4: doubt about that. It's not a case obviously, where the
Speaker 4: teams don't just put their number one corner on the
Speaker 4: other team's number one wide out. It's not quite that simple.
Speaker 4: But they do have good success against tight ends and
Speaker 4: the rest of the guys, but against wideouts and running
Speaker 4: backs they struggle. So the two chases Jamar and Brown
Speaker 4: should be part of the focal part of the offense.
Speaker 4: But the game will come down in a lot of
Speaker 4: ways to which team can establish themselves on the ground.
Speaker 4: I think the Broncos have come under a lot of
Speaker 4: fire locally in Denver for not staying with the run
Speaker 4: and blowing leads in that way. You saw that against
Speaker 4: the Chargers especially, and obviously Cincinnati. You know they found
Speaker 4: some success with Chase Brown. It's inconsistent. It's not a
Speaker 4: dominant part of their game and never will be. But
Speaker 4: against the top run defense, can they squeeze out enough
Speaker 4: yards to not have a scenario where Denver's playing just
Speaker 4: come totally against the pass and that you know, there's
Speaker 4: a possible weather factor as well there in Cincinnati, with
Speaker 4: rain and wind expected not necessarily known how severe it's
Speaker 4: going to be, But you can't expect to be able
Speaker 4: to just throw for you know, the three hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty yards and three touchdowns like we come to expect
Speaker 4: from Joe necessarily in this game. So as much of
Speaker 4: the ground attack can be worked out against Denver's tough
Speaker 4: run defense, that'll be an important part of the game.
Speaker 1: Robert, I want to wrap things up by mentioning something
Speaker 1: that I look forward to receiving in my email inbox
Speaker 1: on a regular basis. It's called the NYC one thousand.
Speaker 1: For people who have no idea what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: explain the NYC one thousand.
Speaker 4: Uh, it's my tilting at Windmills. I guess you'd probably
Speaker 4: say it's a substack that I have which I am
Speaker 4: counting down the top one thousand sporting events in NYC
Speaker 4: New York City history. And that's the conceit of it is.
Speaker 4: It had to have happened in New York. And it's
Speaker 4: everything from football and basketball and baseball to tennis your favorite,
Speaker 4: and boxing and track and field and even the bicycle
Speaker 4: race from the nineteenth century thrown in there as well.
Speaker 4: And it's just a way of, you know, kind of
Speaker 4: charting sports history which is so tied into New York
Speaker 4: obviously the capital sports for many many moons, if not
Speaker 4: necessarily at the present, and also just a way to
Speaker 4: throw in the rise and fall and rise again of
Speaker 4: so much of the city and so much of the
Speaker 4: country as well, and going to give a little history
Speaker 4: lesson alongside the sports stuff, which you know is certainly
Speaker 4: the way to get people in. But I try and
Speaker 4: tuck in the occasional history lesson in other ways as well,
Speaker 4: And it's really just a it's a fun little project
Speaker 4: that's been going on for a while.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: We're only up to about seven hundred and something. I think,
Speaker 4: you know, about a quarter of the way through. Not
Speaker 4: quite there yet, but you know, it's been going on
Speaker 4: for a while. But it's easy thing to catch up on.
Speaker 4: So yeah, you can just google NYC one thousand or
Speaker 4: Robert Wantrum and it'll come up, and you know, subscribe
Speaker 4: and you'll get it in your inbox. I try and
Speaker 4: make it once a week Christmas in Milli Year's Eve,
Speaker 4: we may take a break, but otherwise it's a pretty
Speaker 4: steady thing two a week and you find out what
Speaker 4: kind of interesting games and boxing matches and tennis matches
Speaker 4: have been going on in NYC history, in which ones
Speaker 4: idem are the best?
Speaker 1: And I improved that you do not have to be
Speaker 1: from New York City to enjoy the NYC one thousand.
Speaker 1: If you like great writing and great storytelling, check it
Speaker 1: out the NYC one thousand. Robert always great to catch up.
Speaker 1: Appreciate your time and happy holidays.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Happy holladays to you, Dan, to everybody out there.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: You can check out the NYC one thousand for free.
Speaker 1: Just search for NYC one thousand substack. The Bengals Booth
Speaker 1: podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to
Speaker 1: be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber
Speaker 1: future proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business,
Speaker 1: and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health
Speaker 1: the best Care for the best Fans. Kettering Health is
Speaker 1: the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. The Denver Broncos
Speaker 1: were Super Bowl champs in twenty fifteen, Peyton Manning's final season.
Speaker 1: They haven't made it to the playoffs in the eight
Speaker 1: years since, but at nine and six, the Broncos are
Speaker 1: on the verge of ending that drought, needing to win
Speaker 1: just one of their final two games to get in
Speaker 1: either at Cincinnati this week or at home against the
Speaker 1: Chiefs next week, and they've done it behind rookie quarterback
Speaker 1: Bo Nix, the twelfth pick in this year's draft. In
Speaker 1: this week's No The Faux Segment, I spoke to long
Speaker 1: time Broncos reporter Mike Cliss. Mike, you've written this week
Speaker 1: about the Broncos making sure that they have proper prepared
Speaker 1: footballs for this game and the event of rain. Explain
Speaker 1: why that is newsworthy in Denver, Well.
Speaker 6: Because they had a game in the rain against the
Speaker 6: Jets in the Meadowlands in Week four. It was the
Speaker 6: remnants of Hurricane Helene, and bow Knicks.
Speaker 5: Could not grip the ball. It was so wet. It
Speaker 5: was it was It wasn't a rain. It was an
Speaker 5: in game rain. In other words, it wasn't before and
Speaker 5: left it soggy.
Speaker 6: It drizzled and rained the whole game except for a
Speaker 6: period in the third quarter, and as it so happened,
Speaker 6: NICKX led the team out a touchdown drive and they
Speaker 6: won it ten to nine.
Speaker 5: But otherwise he couldn't grip it.
Speaker 6: He was minus seven yards passing in the first half.
Speaker 6: And so they later determined that the ball, you know,
Speaker 6: the balls were so wet they had they didn't scuff
Speaker 6: them up properly. They didn't think it was going to
Speaker 6: rain during the game, so they didn't have the right
Speaker 6: type of football in there.
Speaker 5: They didn't have the right type of leather polish. So
Speaker 5: they're preparing for rain during the game this time.
Speaker 6: They I know, at least two practices they had wet
Speaker 6: ball drills and so ball security is going to be
Speaker 6: real big and bowl ability to play in bad weather.
Speaker 6: He came from Oregon, so you would think he knows
Speaker 6: how to play in the rain. But he didn't play
Speaker 6: well that game. That was probably his worst game. But
Speaker 6: they think they rectify that by giving them better footballs
Speaker 6: this week.
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully, now that they prepared for it, we won't
Speaker 1: get any rain. It'll turn out to be a nice
Speaker 1: afternoon here in Cincinnati. Let me follow up on bow Knicks, Mike.
Speaker 1: He was the sixth quarterback taking in the draft, but
Speaker 1: he's right up there with Jayden Daniels as a candidate
Speaker 1: for offensive Rookie of the year. What have you found
Speaker 1: most impressive about bow Knicks's play as a rookie?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say Bowl the last few weeks has
Speaker 6: fallen behind Jayden Daniels got the big start there.
Speaker 5: Jayden Daniels is going to be the rookie of the year.
Speaker 6: I think uh Bowers, the tight end from the Raiders,
Speaker 6: probably finished second. Nicks will probably finish third. But what
Speaker 6: impresses you? Uh? Jeff Hopson wrote about it there for
Speaker 6: Bengals dot Com. He he talked to a coach that
Speaker 6: had him in Oregon last last year. Just so smart,
Speaker 6: gets rid of the ball so quick reach defenses. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's like a veteran out there. He's got Peyton Manning's mind.
Speaker 6: Maybe not Peyton Manning's accuracy, but he's got his mind.
Speaker 6: And it doesn't have Peyton's ability to to anticipate to
Speaker 6: throw it open that Peyton did so well. But Bau
Speaker 6: has the mental, the cerebral part of the game down.
Speaker 6: You know, he's a coaches kid. He's very serious about it.
Speaker 6: He's uh, you know, he doesn't goo for around. He's
Speaker 6: not a goof around guy. He's all in, uh on
Speaker 6: football and preparing and watching film and knowing tendencies and
Speaker 6: attacking tendencies. Uh So that's that's the part.
Speaker 5: Of the game.
Speaker 6: And then on top of that, he's a lot faster
Speaker 6: than anyone thought coming out of college. Didn't hear that
Speaker 6: and all from all the draft necks how fast he is.
Speaker 6: But he is fast, and so he runs the ball
Speaker 6: well and some and and a lot of times his
Speaker 6: arm strength will surprise you. There are some times where
Speaker 6: it looks like he lacks arm strength. I don't know
Speaker 6: if that's footwork or or you know, probably the fundamentals
Speaker 6: of setting up that affects that. But there are times
Speaker 6: when he really rips it. So uh, he's been good overall.
Speaker 6: His rook hadn't been perfect, but he's been a little
Speaker 6: I would he had. He had high expectations coming in
Speaker 6: because you knew he was going to start day one,
Speaker 6: but he's been a little better in that well.
Speaker 1: Chatting with Mike Cliss, who covers the Broncos for nine
Speaker 1: News in Denver, let's talk about a couple of defensive topics.
Speaker 1: Beginning with cornerback Riley Moss. Looks like he's back after
Speaker 1: missing three games. How significant would that be for the Broncos.
Speaker 5: I'd be pretty significant because he'll allow them to play
Speaker 5: more Manda Man.
Speaker 6: And if you trust your Manda Man coverage, you can
Speaker 6: blitz more.
Speaker 5: And against Joe Burrow.
Speaker 6: Putting on pressure, putting on heat I think is paramount.
Speaker 6: It seems like, you know, you give Joe all day
Speaker 6: to throw, I mean your toast. And if you put
Speaker 6: heat on him though, and he's not the most elusive
Speaker 6: of quarterbacks in the pocket, if you put the heat
Speaker 6: on him, you know, he can Like any quarterback. He
Speaker 6: you know he's not an All Pro when there's someone
Speaker 6: in his face. And so that's what the Broncos, that's
Speaker 6: the key to the game is the Broncos have to
Speaker 6: get pressure and having a second cornerback like Riley Moss
Speaker 6: who's not as good as Pat Sir Tam, but is
Speaker 6: more aggressive and plays with a fun, infectious.
Speaker 5: Aggressive style of defense.
Speaker 6: And so that's why I think one player can make
Speaker 6: a big difference here because they have not played well
Speaker 6: in his absence, giving up over twenty six points a
Speaker 6: game and ranking thirty first in the last in the
Speaker 6: NFL in yards allowed the last three games. So they
Speaker 6: put it this way, they better hope he's the difference.
Speaker 1: Patrick Tartan is obviously well known, but there are a
Speaker 1: couple of guys having big years on the Denver defense
Speaker 1: that are not household names. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about Nick Benito and Zach Allen.
Speaker 5: Yep, you picked the right too. Benito is a third
Speaker 5: year guy from Oklahoma. The Broncos. By the way, George Payton,
Speaker 5: who got a lot.
Speaker 6: Of guff from the general manager here, got a lot
Speaker 6: of guff because of the Russell Wilson trade, and rightly,
Speaker 6: oh you know, they gave up so many draft picks,
Speaker 6: first and second round draft picks for him and it
Speaker 6: didn't work out. But while he was handicapped in the draft,
Speaker 6: in the last a last pick of the second round
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty two, he got Nick Benito out of Oklahoma,
Speaker 6: and in twenty twenty three, the last pick in the
Speaker 6: second round he got Marvin Bimms. They're a really good
Speaker 6: returner and a fine receiver who's now been playing some halfbacks.
Speaker 6: So those are two real good picks with the last
Speaker 6: pick in the second round twenty two and twenty three.
Speaker 5: And Benito's just just speed.
Speaker 6: He's a speed guy with some bend, so he's you know,
Speaker 6: it depends on the matchup. Last week, the Chargers had
Speaker 6: two fine offensive tackles and.
Speaker 5: They locked them up.
Speaker 6: Strengthwise, he can lock them up, but if he gets
Speaker 6: a little bit of a head start, watch out. And
Speaker 6: Zach Gallen has been tremendous as a three four defensive
Speaker 6: end time.
Speaker 5: He plays a three technique a lot too. He's just
Speaker 5: been real stout.
Speaker 6: He's one of those relentless motor guys kind of like
Speaker 6: Hendrickson on the inside as far as smarts and.
Speaker 5: And can kind of read weaknesses.
Speaker 6: He watches a lot of film, he knows how to
Speaker 6: attack certain blockers, and got a relentless motor and strong,
Speaker 6: and so he's been very good this year.
Speaker 1: A couple more questions for Mike Cliss, who covers the
Speaker 1: Broncos for nine News in Denver. The Chiefs one on
Speaker 1: Christmas to clinch the number one seed. That gives Kansas
Speaker 1: City the ability to rest starters next week as they
Speaker 1: played the Broncos. Is that what Denver expects? Do they
Speaker 1: expect Kansas City to rest guys based on Kansas City's history?
Speaker 1: And if so, does that lessen the pressure on Saturday
Speaker 1: against Cincinnati.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know what the mindset will be against Cincinnati.
Speaker 5: I think first things first, you.
Speaker 6: Gotta attack it like this is a winning in playoff
Speaker 6: game against the Bengals and give it all you got.
Speaker 5: But yes, Andy Reid, I mean he's he's a.
Speaker 6: Heck of a coach, and he's not gonna play Patrick
Speaker 6: Mahomes or Travis Kelcey or Chris Jones who has a
Speaker 6: calf strain anyway, probably wasn't gonna play anyway, those three
Speaker 6: guys they're not at would not anticipate those guys playing
Speaker 6: in the finals, so a little bit of breathing room
Speaker 6: does He's a little bit of pressure, but you got
Speaker 6: to be careful about that.
Speaker 5: It's not like the.
Speaker 6: Preseason, the final preseason game where you rest your top
Speaker 6: twenty five guys because you got a ninety man roster.
Speaker 6: You know, you can only there's only fifty three guys
Speaker 6: and you got to uh so, so you're still gonna
Speaker 6: have fifteen of the twenty two starters play.
Speaker 5: And Carson Wentz by the way, you know, I know.
Speaker 6: His finer days were several several years ago, but the
Speaker 6: last time I checked, he was still capable.
Speaker 5: So first thing first, you got to give it.
Speaker 6: You got to sell out against the Bengals, and if
Speaker 6: that doesn't work out, it should work out against the Chiefs.
Speaker 6: But sometimes that's a dangerous proposition. I tell you, Dan,
Speaker 6: I covered that two thousand and eight Bronco team. It's
Speaker 6: the only team in history that's had a three game
Speaker 6: lead with three to go and.
Speaker 5: Didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 6: And the Bronco at this current Bronco team had the
Speaker 6: same position, the same situation.
Speaker 5: A week ago and one down, you know, the loss
Speaker 5: of the Chargers.
Speaker 6: Now, let's see what happens to the Bengals, so you
Speaker 6: have to treat it like a must win.
Speaker 1: Last thing, Mike, you mentioned the need to put pressure
Speaker 1: on Burrow. Are there any other big keys from Denver's
Speaker 1: perspective in your opinion?
Speaker 5: Well, with the weather and with the weather, I would say, you.
Speaker 6: Know, turnovers, ball security, bow had he only had two.
Speaker 5: Picks through ten games.
Speaker 6: From from game three to game twelve, he threw only
Speaker 6: two interceptions, ten touchdowns.
Speaker 5: He was really good.
Speaker 6: Then all of a sudden, there's there are two games
Speaker 6: there where he threw five through two and one game
Speaker 6: three in another and then last week they had Sean
Speaker 6: Payton really rained him in. As far as the it
Speaker 6: was a very conservative passing game, so you've got to
Speaker 6: open it up a little.
Speaker 5: But you still can't turn the ball over.
Speaker 6: It's kind of a fine line there. We'll see what
Speaker 6: Sean Payton does. You can't be too cautious in this
Speaker 6: game either, so you know the whole turnover, who can protect,
Speaker 6: who can hang on to the wet ball estimate. The
Speaker 6: rookie running backs had a little bit of fumble problems
Speaker 6: early in the season. Courtland Sutton has fumble problems once
Speaker 6: in a while, their top receiver.
Speaker 5: Those guys got to hang on to the ball.
Speaker 1: Week and a holiday week. I know you're busy. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 5: You got it.
Speaker 1: The Bengals are a three and a half point favorite
Speaker 1: as they try to even their record at eight and
Speaker 1: eight and keep hope alive heading into the regular season
Speaker 1: finale at Pittsburgh. That's going to do it for this
Speaker 1: episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by
Speaker 1: pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider,
Speaker 1: by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate
Speaker 1: your home, business and community to a new level, and
Speaker 1: by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
Speaker 1: Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.
Speaker 1: If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this
Speaker 1: podcast and if you have a minute, give it a
Speaker 1: rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans
Speaker 1: find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast