WEBVTT - #402 Wrongful Conviction: Junk Science - Tool Mark Analysis 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.000 Hey folks, Kate Judson here. I'm a lawyer and the 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.600 executive director of the Center for Integrity and Forensic Sciences. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.240 We're back with another episode of Junk Science, a series 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.640 we first released in twenty twenty, but these stories are 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.400 just as relevant as ever. This episode is about tool 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:23.200 mark evidence, which includes the long used practice of matching 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:29.400 ammunition to specific firearms. For decades, ammunition matching has been 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.599 seen as a highly reliable way to link a suspect 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.000 to a crime scene, but the actual reliability of this 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.519 type of evidence is increasingly being questioned. Just recently, in 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.480 June of twenty twenty three, the Supreme Court of Maryland 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:50.120 ruled that ballistics matching may only be represented in court 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:56.200 by experts as consistent or inconsistent with the gun in question. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.800 Like other courts in the past few years, they see 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.880 an issue with this type of evidence, something we'll explore 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.440 in more detail later in the episode. This ruling could 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:14.280 have huge consequences for wrongful conviction actions in Maryland and beyond. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.800 While it doesn't automatically reopen cases, lawyers and wrongfully convicted 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.560 people can use it to petition courts for relief. 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.839 It's Valentine's Day, nineteen ninety one. You don't usually observe 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.280 the greeting card holidays. You think they're kind of silly, 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.399 and besides, most of the time, you and your partner 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.720 are both busy working. You're always buried in your client's cases, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.040 and your partner is often on call, running back and 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.880 forth to the hospital to treat patients. Your friends are 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.920 always remarking that you're the classic power couple, but sometimes 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.160 it seems like it's all power and not so much couple. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.640 So this year, you make dinner, put out a tablecloth, 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.200 and even light a candle. At the end of dinner, 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.880 you do the dishes and your partner takes out the trash. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.680 The TV is on low in the background, but something 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.440 makes your ears perk up. You glance over and see 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.679 the newswoman reporting from a parking lot not too far 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.040 away from your house. She says, an explosion went off 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.919 not long ago. A man was hit in his leg 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:33.040 by shrapnel that exploded off a pipe bomb. It detonated 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.959 thirty yards away from where the man was walking. Listening 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.880 to this, you slowly shake your head. It's not uncommon 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.480 in Grand Junction, Colorado, for people to mess around with explosives. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.200 After all, it's a mining down and people know how 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.600 to use dynamite. The reporter says, the man that was 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.240 hit will probably be Okay, you hope this is just 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.520 some kids joke gone wrong. But then a few weeks 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:04.000 later there's another news report. A twelve year old girl 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.760 named Maria gets into a van with her parents to 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.160 go shopping, and as the family sets out for the mall, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.320 a bomb hidden near one of the rear tires explodes. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.760 Shrapnel is flung through the back of the van's seat 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:22.640 and into Maria's body. It wedges into her heart. Her 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.720 parents frantically pull her out of the car, but she 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:32.560 dies right there. Three months after that, husband and wife 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.800 Henry and Suzanne, finish dinner at a local restaurant. They 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:41.520 drive by a strange looking object. Henry slows the car 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.720 down and reaches out to see what it is. His 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:49.080 arms are blown off his body and he dies instantly. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.480 After that third bomb goes off, everyone in Grand Junction 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.960 is extremely anxious. You check under your car every single 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.000 time before you get in, and you continue to follow 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.000 the news coverage as it unfolds. The police department declares 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.320 that out of thirty initial suspects for the bombs. They've 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.919 narrowed it down to just one person. They don't renounce 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.400 who it is, but a camera crew must have gotten 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.520 tipped off because they start following around a young man 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:32.160 with big glasses. Then you get a phone call from 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.400 a man who identifies himself as Jimmy. He tells you 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.600 he is the suspect in these bombing cases. His words 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:45.000 come quickly and in fragments of sentences, he sounds scared. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.760 He says he hasn't done anything wrong, and he hasn't 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.360 been arrested yet, but with cameras following him, he thinks 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.480 it's a good idea to get an attorney. He asks, 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.880 will you help me. You take all of this in 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.440 and think to I really want to be involved defending 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.760 someone who might have done something so horrific. But then again, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.560 what if he's actually innocent. Everyone deserves an opportunity to 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:17.200 defend themselves. Ultimately, you agree to take on his case. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.560 Soon after you become Jimmy's attorney, he gets a knock 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.200 at his door. The police enter his house with a warrant. 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.880 They turn his place inside out, Detectives vacuum the couch 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.320 and carpet to see if they can pick up any gunpowder. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:38.120 Nothing all they found or some everyday tools, some pliers, 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.400 wire strippers. The tools that are taken from Jimmy's house 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.680 are brought down to the police station and tested in 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:50.520 the forensics lab. When the results come back, police arrests 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:55.760 Jimmy and he gets charged with murder. Of all the 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.880 people to pin this on, you do understand why they're 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:03.560 targeting Jimmy. He's somewhat of a loaner, definitely an oddball. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.880 He often goes on late night walks by himself. He 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.960 can be found sitting alone at bars and getting pretty drunk. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.440 Prior to the trial, the prosecution discloses the evidence they 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.880 intend to use against Jimmy to prove their case, and 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.160 it looks pretty bad. You spend countless days pouring over 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.719 the main piece of evidence, the conclusion of a tool 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.919 mark examiner. The report of this examiner says that the 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.520 impressions taken from the tools they found in Jimmy's apartment 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.719 can be scientifically linked to the tool marks left on 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.320 all three of the bombs. In all your years as 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.560 a criminal defense attorney, you've never heard of this type 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.599 of forensic analysis. You didn't even know it existed, But 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.760 you studied science and undergrad before you decided to become 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.640 a lawyer, so you know how to analyze these scientific documents. 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:04.080 You dig up everything you can find on tools, evidence, data, statistics, studies, experiments. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.560 You find nothing. How are you supposed to defend against this? 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.239 If someone has a standard set of needlenos pliers, aren't 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.680 they likely to match up with the impressions made by 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.640 other needlenose pliers. At trial, the jury is shown a 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.520 video by the prosecution. A tool mark expert walks the 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.320 jurors through it. He tells them each tool has unique 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:32.840 microscopic characteristics. You can see how the tools we found 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.320 in the defendant's home aligned perfectly with marks found on 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:42.760 fragments of the exploded bombs. The jury is mesmerized by 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:47.800 the videotape shown by the tool mark examiner after closing arguments, 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.440 when they begin their deliberations, the first note they send 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.160 out is a request to see that video. They view 0:07:55.200 --> 0:08:00.840 it over and over and over again, and then the 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:05.200 bailiff informs you that the jury is done deliberating. Jimmy 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.480 is brought back into the courtroom from a holding cell. 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.920 You see the trepidation in his face as he takes 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.840 a seat, and you can actually hear him take a big, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:19.160 nervous swallow. The jury files into the courtroom, and a 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:24.440 vein on your temple begins to pulsate in twitch. Jimmy 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:29.240 is convicted of multiple counts of murder. He is sentenced 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:34.719 to life in prison. The story you just heard is 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.359 based on the true events of the bombings in Grand Junction, Colorado, 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.320 in nineteen ninety one and the subsequent trial of Jimmy Genrich. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.319 Jimmy has been in prison for more than twenty five years, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.040 serving a life sentence. His latest appeal has been taken 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:56.840 up by the Innocence Project. I'm Josh Dubin, civil rights 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:01.080 and criminal defense attorney, an Innocent Ambassador Innocence Project in 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:06.160 New York. Today, on wrongful Conviction junk Science, we examined 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.280 tool mark analysis. It turns out the crime that popularized 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:16.400 tourl maark analysis was also committed on Valentine's Day over 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.280 ninety years ago. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.160 When three dozen former Brooklyn Navy yard workers found themselves 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.600 irreparably poisoned by the asbestos they used in the construction 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.520 of the battleships that won World War Two. Perry White 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.040 and Arthur Luxembourg literally put everything on the line to 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.680 successfully represent them. Since then, they've championed the rights of 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.760 over fifty thousand regular Americans injured through the negligence and 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:48.120 malfeasance of mainly large corporations. Their ability to level the 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.760 playing field against seemingly insurmountable odds has led them to 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.920 litigate against opponents as diverse as Big Pharma all the 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.240 way to those responsible for rendering the water of Flint, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.200 Michigan drinkable. Whites and Luxembourg ticket personally when there's a 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.880 miscarriage of justice anywhere, and therefore they feel a sense 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.600 of responsibility to support Bramfel conviction podcasts. You can learn 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.360 more about them by visiting Whiteeslux dot com. That's w 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:25.280 E I t Z lux dot com. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:30.079 You've all heard of the legendary mobster Al Capone. During 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.400 the Roaring twenties, he was the leader of the Chicago Mafia. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:40.120 Anything corrupt or illegal. He controlled it, from bootlegging to speakeasies, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:45.480 gambling to prostitution. Capone owned it all. But there was 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:50.000 one rival gang that Capone couldn't quite shake. The irishmafia 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:55.880 led by George bugs Moran. They were manufacturing and selling alcohol, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.880 stepping on Capone's business. Now Capone he wasn't gonna have it. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.280 He got hold of some police uniforms and on February fourteenth, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:10.120 Valentine's Day, nineteen twenty nine, four of Capone's men, dressed 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.360 as police officers, went over to the garage where bugs 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.760 Moran's gang was producing and selling alcohol. Capone's crew took 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.240 the Irish mob by surprise. They started screaming with their 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.360 guns drawn, line up against the wall, hands where I 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.199 can see him. You're all under arrest. All seven of 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.520 the Irish gangsters lined up against the wall, hands on 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.920 their heads, while Capone's crew shot them all dead in 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:40.920 broad daylight. By the time the real police arrived, Capone's 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.040 gang was long gone. The cops had more than a 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.440 hunch about who was responsible for this, but they needed 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.560 the hard evidence to prove it, so they raided the 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.280 home of one of Capone's top guys, who went by 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.840 the name of Frank Killer Burke. They took his gun 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.120 and sent it off to what was one of the 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:05.120 first crime labs in the country. There, an examiner named 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.960 Calvin Goddard shot some test bullets out of the confiscated gun. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.160 He put one of the test bullets and one of 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.679 the bullets found at the massacre under a special microscope 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.400 that allowed him to compare two images at once. This 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:25.000 examiner actually invented this technique of comparing bullets. He claimed 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.400 that no two revolvers leave the same mark, and that 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.560 by examining the grooves on the bullets, he claimed he 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.000 could identify the gun that shot them. According to Goddard, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.840 the bullets of the confiscated gun indeed matched the bullets 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.679 found at the scene of the crime, but the police 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.679 couldn't do much with that evidence. They couldn't prove that 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.120 the owner of the gun, Frank Killer Burke, had been 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.320 at the scene of the crime, and so no one 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.160 was ever charged for what became known as the Valentine's 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.600 Day massacre. The analysis the invented is now known as 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.920 tool mark and firearm analysis. Forensic analysts that follow in 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.800 his footsteps believe that just as each gun leaves a 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.880 unique mark on every bullet that it shoots, each tool 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.439 leaves unique mark on the surface it's used on. But 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.640 no one had closely examined the false assumptions behind tool 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:23.000 mark identification. What was being presented to jury's was this 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.680 notion that a tool will leave a unique mark on 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:30.079 a surface. But it turns out that's not necessarily the case. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.760 If two people own a similar wrench, for instance, both 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.640 wrenches will leave behind a similar mark, So matching a 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.240 mark to a tool owned by a suspect has very 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:46.360 limited value. Nevertheless, these experts were claiming that a tool 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.679 found at the home of a suspect was the precise 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.360 tool that was used, for example, to cut wires during 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.559 the construction of a bomb. This kind of flawed evidence 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.280 continued to be presented in courtrooms across the country to 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.559 link suspects to crimes, leading to several wrongful convictions, including 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.920 that of Jimmy Genrich in nineteen ninety two. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.800 It was just so obvious to me that this was 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:21.440 not you know, this was not a foundationally strong field, 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.040 and I was absolutely stunned because the consequences of this 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.120 stuff can't be higher. You know, people go to prison 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.920 for years, they're sentenced to death. I mean, essentially, for 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.280 this to be totally unproven science, I just absolutely could 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:38.000 not believe it. 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.440 Today we're talking to Tim Riquarth. Tim's a freelance journalists 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.400 who often writes about the intersection between science and criminal justice. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.160 He's also a lecturer in science and writing at NYU. 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.480 We're particularly excited to talk to him today because he 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.840 wrote about Jimmy Genrich's case for an article published by 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.200 The Nation. He and his co author extensively researched the case, 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.680 along with the tool mark evidence that was used to 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.640 convict Jimmy. Now, a lot of this episode is based 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.960 on this article that Tim wrote, So after listening to 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.200 this episode, if you want to learn more about tool 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.480 mark evidence in Jimmy's case, you can find the article 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.800 on our show notes. So, Tim, tell us about your background. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.280 How did you get into writing about science? 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.000 So, for undergraduate, I studied literature and writing, and it 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.240 wasn't until after I'd graduated. I happened to be living 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.600 across the street from a medical school in Chicago, and 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.840 at the same time, my father was suffering from dementia, 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.120 and the books and articles that I was reading on 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.160 dementia didn't quite satisfy me, and so I decided to 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.920 volunteer in a lab that studied dementia. And it was 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.160 at that point that I was first introduced to research, 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:56.560 and I was hooked. So I went back to school, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.600 took all of the basic science classes that I hadn't 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.880 taken undergrad and eventually enrolled in a masters, And you know, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.680 ten years later I found myself in probably with a 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:12.240 PhD in neuroscience. The sort of breadth of questions and 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.520 material that you could really dive into as a journalist 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.920 or a writer just felt so much more expansive than 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.160 what I could do as a scientist. And so I 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.720 sort of had the realization later on in my PhD 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.720 that research heavy, investigative type of pieces were a really 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.520 good fit for somebody who's trained in answering big questions. 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.200 So before writing this story about tool mark evidence, what 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.000 did you know about any forensic science? 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.440 Before that the first story I did about forensic science, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.120 I didn't know a lot about it at the time. Then, 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.560 you know, anybody might from watching Law and Order or CSI. 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.200 We profiled the specific case and it involved to a 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.000 mark evidence, and we looked at all of the research 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.120 in the forensic journal. I mean, we went through and 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:08.200 found every single study and most of them were very 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.399 small sample sizes, very theoretical, or had all kinds of 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:17.320 methodological design problems, and I was absolutely stunned because this 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.600 is like a solved problem. Like we know how to 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.200 do strong empirical scientific studies to see if something works 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.919 or not. Like take a medical study, which if you 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.440 want to see if a drug has an effect, you 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:34.040 randomly select two groups of people and you assign one 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.159 of them to get the drug and another one to 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.120 get a placebo which has no effect. You blind both 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.919 the people so they don't know that they're getting the drug, 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.320 and you also blind the researchers so they don't know 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.520 who is getting the drug. You decide ahead of time 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.639 what analysis you're going to do, what outcomes you're going 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.960 to look for, and then you test those using rigorous 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.320 hypothesis testing and statistics to see what happens. And in 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:05.480 forensics sciences that just it doesn't exist. The practitioners doing 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.240 them are often not blinded, the sample sizes are very low, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.720 there's conflicts of interest, so it's not following some of 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:19.040 the most basic tenets that you know would be reflexive 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.840 to your you know, typical scientist in a university. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.399 I mean most people, especially lay people on a jury, 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.919 hear the words forensic science, and you know, they imagine 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.160 this very pristine process in which things are tested and retested, 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.760 because you know, we all think of the scientific method 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.679 that we learn about in school, and it's kind of 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.879 startling to know that that's not actually the case. So 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.439 what you said really underscores what we've been saying throughout 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.080 this show and how big of a problem it can 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:57.560 be when jurors confuse what's really junk science presented in 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:03.240 courtrooms with trig additional science that's used to develop medicines. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.439 For example. And I'm not sure that our listeners are 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.760 aware of this, but I want you to think about 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.960 this for a moment. In cases where people were later 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:18.719 proven to be innocent based on DNA, forty five percent 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:23.520 of those wrongful convictions are based on some misapplication of 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:24.520 forensic science. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.240 Imagine if this were the FDA, right Imagine if a 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.640 drug didn't work fifty percent of the time and had 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.600 horrible side effects, they wouldn't just say, well, you know, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.760 we already approved it, so let's just leave it on 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.280 the market. That's not how it works in medicine, but 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:39.600 that is how it works in the law. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.159 So let's get into Jimmy's case. I want you to 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.000 tell us about the crime that led to his arrest 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.639 and the town that had happened, and why did they 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.840 even decide to zero in on Jimmy in the first place. 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.399 Grand Junction is a sort of mining town of about 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.159 thirty thousand people at the time, and there is a 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.640 series of pipe bombs that went off in the town. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.000 There were three of them, and one of them killed 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.600 a twelve year old girl. It was it was very tragic, 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.960 and they had they were seemingly random, and they had 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:16.879 no suspect, and so the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.000 Firearms was called in and they helped the local police 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.400 force do a bomb investigation to try to figure out 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.399 who this was. They had a list of, you know, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.800 something like thirty suspects. There was this guy, Jimmy, who 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.000 was sort of a loner. Lived in a boarding house 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.040 near downtown in a twelve by twelve room. I think 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:37.959 he was a busboy in a restaurant, but was on 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:42.359 and off of jobs. His mother would bring him, you know, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:46.240 meals in a cooler, and he was a little bit 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.240 you know, he had some problems with mental illness. There 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.560 was one event in particular that put him on the 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.600 police's radar, which was he walked into a bookstore one 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.480 day and asked them to order a copy of the 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.160 Anarchist Cookbook, which contains a diagram of a pipe bomb, 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:07.040 and the bookstore owners had called the police, and once 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.480 they sort of pieced all of this together, that put 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.680 him at the top of the suspect list. They then 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:19.080 rated his sporting room and found some electronic parts, some 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:24.120 wire strippers and pliers that could conceivably have been used 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:28.080 to construct a bomb, and at that point they worked 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.560 to link him to the bomb. They didn't find any 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.080 other physical evidence, never found the Anarchist Cookbook. They painted 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.959 a picture of him as the kind of person who 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.800 would do this, But you have to have physical evidence 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:45.760 that links people to crimes in very the objective ways, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:48.280 and they didn't have that in this case, other than 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.000 the tool mark analysis, which both the prosecutor and the 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.639 judge acknowledged in the trial transcript. They both acknowledged that 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.600 the entire case hinged on the tool mark analysis, and 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.960 if it were thrown out, there would be no case. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.200 So how did they claim to identify Jimmy's tools as 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.320 the tools that were used on these bombs? 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.320 They look at these microscopic scratches or striations on the 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.240 bomb parts, and then they look at the suspects tools 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.639 and they make a mark on some other piece of 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.480 metal using a microscope. They compare the marks on the metal, 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.520 like their test marks, to the marks on the actual evidence, 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.399 and if those line up in the examiner's you know, 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.080 subjective judgment, they declare to match, and they say that 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.679 this was you know, the only tools that could have 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.119 made these marks, and therefore the owner of these tools 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:52.439 must have been the person who built the bombs. You know, 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.680 they use the word certainty, and that's very compelling to jurors, 0:22:56.960 --> 0:22:59.280 but the truth is they don't know how certain it is. 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.960 These aren't exotic bomb making tools. They're three dollars pair 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.560 of pliers that you know, were sold at the local 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.960 hardware store. Perhaps so you could imagine that, you know, 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.439 a tool mark. Examiner could say something like, oh, it 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.000 was a really large pair of pliers versus a small one, 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.600 or you know, it's consistent or something like that, but 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:21.520 they don't say that they individualize it. They say that 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.760 this is an exact match. And this isn't really a 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.320 possible conclusion to come to because you'd either have to 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.080 a test every other tool in the world and see 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.680 if this indeed was a unique mark that was being made, 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.960 or you would have to know the kinds of variations 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.359 that we see in tools, Like how common is it 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.040 that two tools can look about the same but aren't 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.520 the same? Is it you know, two tools that are 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.800 made by the same brand. Is it two tools that 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.600 come off the same you know, lot in a factory. 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:58.720 So there's all of these things that you'd need to quantify, 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:01.360 And even if you did do that, you'd have to say, 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.159 you know, there's a one in one hundred chants that 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.080 this is a different tool. There's a one in two 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.120 hundred chance, right, something like that. 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:12.399 Right, So you're saying that one issue is how many 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.040 tools can be said to match a mark left behind? 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:16.919 And we really don't know the answer to that. But 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.560 I guess another issue is the examiners doing the matching. 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.520 And the fact of the matter is that these examiners 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:27.680 never really have to prove whether or not they can 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:31.240 effectively match a tool to its mark. And there are 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.000 possible ways to test this, right, I mean, if a 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:36.639 lab wants to test how good someone is at this 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:39.720 kind of tool matching, they would send a tool mark 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:44.240 examiner some tools along with some wires or pieces of 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.960 metal with tool marks on them, and the examiners would 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.960 then be asked to match the correct tool to the marks, 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:54.560 and the lab would have all of the correct answers, 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.120 so they'd be able to tell how good these examiners 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:02.920 actually are. That kind of testing, which would show how 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:07.080 good these tool mark examiners are at their job, seems 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:08.560 like a simple thing to do. 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:12.119 Right, right, The real test is how well do you 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.240 examiners actually do in reality? And you would say, you know, 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.200 tool mark examiners make a mistake one out of ten times, 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:20.960 one out of one hundred times, one out of a 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.080 thousand times. That's what you really want to know is 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:25.720 how often do they make a mistake? 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.080 So why don't they actually do these tests? 0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:32.959 If that comes back and it's really, really, it's not 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:35.320 so good, Right, you make an error fifty percent of 0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:38.680 the time or twenty five percent of the time, you're 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.800 out of a job. You know, what are these examiners 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:45.560