WEBVTT - Listener Mail: At Length Did Cross an Albatross 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:11.119 My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.480 Listener Mail. This is Robert Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.799 And Rob your back for your first listener mail. In 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.239 a bit, I did a couple without you there. It's 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.400 good to have you back on the mic. Yeah. Well, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.760 you know, I'm glad you were there fighting the mail bag, 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:29.320 keeping it from becoming two overstuffed lest it erupt all 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.000 over us. UM. You know, one of the things I 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:36.320 did while I was out is I finished rereading Dune 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.519 by Frank Herbert, and then I reread Dune Messiah, the 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.360 second one in this series, and I did want to 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.199 update for anyone out there who cares about this as 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.440 much as I do. UM. One of the things that 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.720 I ended up doing an artifact episode regarding is the 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.200 idea of donkeys of Dune, because it's it's mentioned in 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:03.480 UM in the appendices for for the first Dune novel 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.520 that that's still that there there had there are donkeys 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.440 on the planet Iracus. They are sometimes outfitted in still suits, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.520 and they're they're used either too, you know, for mild 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.000 carrying of things around and they're sometimes used for milk 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:22.000 um as as a dairy um animal. And so in 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.880 that Artifact episode, I speculated on why this could be. 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:26.960 You know, part of my thinking was that, well, it 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.000 doesn't seem like like Frank Herbert ever did anything in 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.679 his Dune novels without a lot of thought going into it. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.399 So it couldn't just be a random choice that there 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.760 are donkeys on Iraqus, but there don't seem to be 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.280 camels on Iraqus. Um. You know, both are are animals 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.440 that are that are adapt at at desert environments. But 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.600 but why the donkey and not the camel. So I 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.680 talked about that for a little bit. And then when 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.960 I reread Dune Messiah Lo and Behold, there's one little 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.160 passage in there which is kind of as a as 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.440 an off handed remark that mentioned that the fremen of 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.920 Iracus would not know about the camel, like the camel 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.320 is specifically mentioned as being an animal of the Golden 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.399 Age of Earth. Uh So, still I don't have any 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.600 you know. He there's no little note there where Herbert 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.160 describes why in great detail he decided to go with 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.880 the donkey rather than the camel. I expect that it 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.119 might line up with some of the ideas I presented, 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.120 but he does seem to double down in Messiah on 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.200 there being no camels whatsoever on the planet. Well, glad 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.280 to get that information, But wait a minute, no, are 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.960 your ideas that? What? That? Would it be that the 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.680 camel is extinct by the time of of the Dune 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.760 novels or that or that what like the Benny jesse 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:47.160 At have conspired not to let knowledge of the camel spread. Basically, 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.239 my my critique was that based on some some really 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.280 excellent sources, there have been whole books written about like 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.000 the role of uh, you know that, the history of 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.639 the use of of of the donkey, the history of 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:01.640 the use the camel, and it's all you know. You know, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.800 you can also get into various comparisons about how they 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.320 good they are energy wise, but basically it seems like 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:12.880 the camel is more useful for longer distances and greater cargo. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.400 And it seems like on a rack, as you know, 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.600 first of all, you're dealing with with an age in 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.000 which you have things like ornithopters and you can fly around. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.880 You you have more, you have other means of transportation 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.679 that are available to you. Also, you can't just while 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.760 the camel would be perfect for moving across long distances 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.120 over the desert, you can't very well do that if 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.720 you have sandworms around, because unless you have somehow taught 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.120 the camel to walk with no rhythm, it's just gonna 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:42.960 wind up in the belly of the sand worm. Well. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.240 One of the other arguments that is often made in 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.080 comparing camels and donkeys is the camel is a more 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.560 extensive animal, so if you have to go with one, uh, like, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.880 the cost of the donkey is less than the cost 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.680 of keeping a camel, or so it seems. I accept. 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.119 And then I guess you've got to somehow get enough 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:06.320 camels too, Iracus to begin with, I mean camels or donkeys, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.640 So maybe that's part of it too. Um, you have 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.920 to factor in how many are you bringing. I don't know, 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.560 there's a there's additional computation you can make on it. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.039 But like I said, I was excited just to see 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.200 it mentioned again. I didn't remember this from from my 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.760 previous reading up doing Messiah. So uh, here's hoping that 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.800 the Children of Doone continues this trend and offers more 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:34.479 juicy tidbits about donkeys on the planet Iracus. Yes, here's hoping. Well, Rob, 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.120 if you don't mind, I guess I'm going to jump 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.839 right into our first message from a listener with this 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:48.240 email from Renata. Let's do it, okay, Renata says, Hi, Rob, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.080 Joe and Seth short time listener, frequent emailer. I started 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.880 listening in the summer of one and have been working 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.200 my way back through your catalog. I have a story 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.040 to tell about water tasting, but first I want a 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.920 shaff phenomenon I recently came across that reminded me of 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.440 the Moses Effect. I guess water tasting would tie into 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.799 our episodes on Thursday, and the Moses effect was something 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.440 we discussed in a recent Vault episode. Now, if you 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.200 haven't listened to the episode, the Moses effect is uh 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.400 is an example of a type of type of phenomenon 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.640 known as knowledge neglect, where you can ask somebody a 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.680 question like how many of each type of animal did 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.599 Moses take onto the arc? And most people will say too, 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.880 even though they know that it was Noah and not 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.840 Moses who took animals onto the ark. They're just like, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.880 they just ignore that semantic error in the question and 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.599 answer it as if you had said Noah. And they're 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.360 all kinds of interesting little implications of knowledge and neglect. 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.000 But Ronata goes on to say, there's another type of 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:52.120 linguistic allusion called the comparative illusion. Most people report that 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.320 they understand a sentence like this one. Here you go 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:02.200 more people have been to Berlin than I have. Understand. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.039 That just kind of breaks my brain to to to 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.080 hear that. I mean, it's the kind of thing that 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.080 if you're asked to focus on it, yeah, it sounds 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.240 wrong because it's actually a nonsensical sentence. But if you 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.880 if it just came quickly in a conversation, it would 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:18.479 go right over me. I would just be like, yeah, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.560 I understand what that means. I mean, I guess they're 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.479 trying to say, like, more people within my circle have 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.080 been to Berlin than I. It still breaks my brain. Sorry, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.479 even that wouldn't make any sense, would it? Really? Okay? 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.760 So Ranada goes on to explain, She says, but this 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.440 sentence makes less sense the more you think about it. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.479 At first, blush, I interpret the sentence to mean I 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:44.440 have not been to Berlin. Most other people have. Um, yeah, no, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.960 that doesn't make sense. She says, I'm curious if it 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.960 means something different to you. To understand the issue with 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.320 the sentence, an example of a well formed comparison sentence 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.880 may help. Quote more people have been to Berlin than 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.440 those who have been to Fiji. The first half of 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.440 the sentence A is the number of people who have 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.800 been to Berlin. The second half of the sentence B 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.440 is the number of people who have been to Fiji. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.840 The second sentence is saying A is greater than B. However, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.640 in the first sentence I gave while A is the same, 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.000 the second half of the sentence isn't referring to a 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:18.640 set of people. And if I understand the grammatical explanation, 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.920 that's where the problem arises. The sentence is almost a 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.480 Yogi barra is m When you stop to think about it, 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.040 you're saying that the set of everyone who has been 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.040 to Berlin is greater than yourself. It's a statement either 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.000 so obviously true that it's uninformative, or it has no 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.440 meaning at all. Maybe we can come back to more 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.200 about this after the emails done. But I also wanted 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.640 to read so Ranada has comments on water tasting. She 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.200 writes this is in response to your series about thirst. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:51.200 Coffee making is another profession that pays close attention to 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.400 the composition and taste of water. My partner is a 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.760 barista and one of the things he likes to do 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.400 is organized coffee tastings where he makes the same coffee 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.520 with the same method of preparation and every other variable 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:08.000 controlled except the water source. He'll use local tap water, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.560 distilled water, and water with different mineralities, and the results 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.560 are staggering. My partner has trained his brain to identify 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.000 subtle differences in flavors, but even to the novice taster 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.280 like me, the coffee tastes entirely different based on the water, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:27.680 mostly impacting acidity and bitterness. We live in Wisconsin currently 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.080 and the water is extremely hard. Any coffee nerd living 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.280 in Wisconsin knows we have to make our own water 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.480 for coffee. My partner and I distill our own water 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.120 and add a mixture of minerals to produce the proper 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:45.720 concentration per gallon. Fortunately, you can now buy preportioned mineral packets. Wow, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.080 that that is dedication to coffee. When they said we 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.640 have to make our own water for coffee again, apologies, 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.640 I've just been reading a lot of dune recently. I 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.960 was just imagining like the frem and coffee, and you're 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.680 having to use like a still about to prepare. It 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.880 doesn't matter that it was once tears and an armpits wet. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.600 It is clean now. I mean it has an all 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.800 water been tier in armpit sweat at some point, Yes, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.760 every glass of water you drink is full of water 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:16.920 that was once dinosaur urine, dinosaur feces, somebody's diarrhea. It's 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.839 it's all the same water. By the way, there is 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.319 a recipe for friend and coffee in the Dune Encyclopedia, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.360 so at some point I'm going to fire that up. Okay. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.200 Going back to the email, Ranada said, Okay. So she 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.040 said she and her partner live in Wisconsin now, but 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.680 a few years ago they moved to New Zealand, and 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.880 she says, distilled water isn't readily available to buy, and 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.079 we didn't have a distiller ourselves. At first, we were 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.120 distraught that our coffee would taste bad, but it turned 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.760 out that our tap water was actually quite close to ideal. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.960 This fascinated and excited my partner, so when he saw 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.040 an advertisement for a water tasting event, he just had 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.400 to go, thinking he would find they're like minded flavor 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.600 enthusiasts like himself. She you're enough. They brought waters from 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.480 around New Zealand and the world and had participants guests 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.600 the origin. But he was moldly embarrassed to learn that 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.079 this was put on as a joke and the organizers 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.080 weren't going to educate him on why the waters tasted 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.400 the way they did. And then she attaches a news 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.400 article about the event, and then one final question, she says, 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.600 did you know that there was an NPR piece on 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.360 the science of drinking? Uh? This is drinking water, not 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.800 drinking alcohol, the science of drinking that was published at 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.000 about the same time as your episodes. Coincidence or were 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.640 you inspired by this research? And then she links to 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.800 an NPR piece and finally says, love your show, wish 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.080 you and your family is a great two. Thank you 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.560 for bringing me and so many others joy all the best. Renata, Well, 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.960 thank you so much for not a great email. Uh okay, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.480 I guess to take things in more or less random order. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.960 You know, when you said the water tasting event was 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.760 a joke, I thought, surely the joke was going to 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.560 be that all the water actually came out of the 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.000 same hose round back outside the restaurant. But I didn't 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.240 see any obvious indication of this in the article. Maybe 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.160 maybe I missed it somehow. Uh So, so I'm not 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.480 sure what you're getting at there. What seems like the 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.559 like New Zealander humor can be a little a little dry, right, Yeah, 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.000 Sometimes it's hard to It may be hard to get 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.240 to to to to catch on too, if you're you're 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.040 looking in the wrong direction. I know people have done 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.880 that before, like you know, selling people on the idea 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.760 of here's various fancy bottled waters, but it all came 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.880 out of a hose. Oh yeah. And then of course 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.600 they're they're various wine experiments. Uh. But meaning to come 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.640 back to that on the on the show, because I 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.440 know we have like there was like an old episode 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.080 where we very briefly talked about one of these studies 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:40.760 where they're you know, they're kind of doing a gotcha 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.920 moment by saying, ah, you were not you know you 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.240 you you were just confusing. You confused red wine with 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.760 white wine, uh and uh and so forth, which I 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.840 mean some of that I think can be illuminating about 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.280 you know how much you know, language and and priming 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.199 we put into our experience of taste sensations at a 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.200 glass of wine or a beer or anything. But but 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.240 on the other hand, like all of that is important, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.800 Like you can't I feel like it's kind of cheap 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.240 to discount like knowledge of where something came from, or 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.680 the history that went into the culture, the traditions that 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.360 went into it, and just bloil it all down to 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.040 just this pure sensory experience, because that's you know, that's 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.839 not how we work with our our food culture. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.160 I wonder about I know some of the studies you're 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.760 talking about where they like give people cheap wine and 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.599 ask them to do tasting notes as if it's super expensive, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.320 and then it's like, oh, you didn't even know this 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.520 was cheap or whatever. I don't know, I think that 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:38.920 I don't know. I I don't want to be too 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.120 critical because I'm not actually looking at those studies right now, 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.040 but I remember looking at some of that stuff and 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.160 thinking that it was kind of leaving out some important 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:51.000 factors of of like the experience of tasting things in general. Yeah, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:52.760 but anyway, yeah, well we can come back to it. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.160 We could definitely look at that. Uh So, As for 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.640 the question about the timing of thirst stories on our 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.960 show and on NPR, No, I didn't have any idea, 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.960 and I think the episodes were my idea to do so, Rob, 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.960 I don't know if you heard this at the same time, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.920 but this just happens sometimes. I remember people used to 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.960 ask us about this, especially when it would happen on 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.120 different How Stuff Works podcasts, Like occasionally stuff you should 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.200 Know would cover the same topic as us in the 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.360 same week, and people would ask if we did that 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.480 on purpose. Uh No, I mean, we don't collaborate on 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.840 on like planning topics out or anything like that. And honestly, 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.480 I think if we could predict that in advance, we 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.920 would avoid it since we have a lot of audience overlap. 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.200 So it just happens, like generally, if there if I 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.199 hear something really cool on NPR or certainly on another podcast, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.800 and I don't listen to a ton of podcasts, but occasionally, 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.959 you know, I listen to something and um, and if 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.080 I do hear something cool and think, oh, that would 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.840 be a cool topic for us to explore, I would 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.640 The added part of that is explore and maybe you know, 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.840 three to six months. We can't really jump on it 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.120 right now because I feel like they just they just 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.880 did a great job with that. What what could we 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.040 contribute at this point? Yeah, actually the same here. I 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.800 would say that, um, you know, ultimately, everything I suggest 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.559 to cover on the podcast is pretty much necessarily because 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.360 of something I read somewhere else. Ultimately, but uh, there's 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.840 usually a bigger time lag. It's something I read months 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.040 ago which kind of ferments in my brain for a while, 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.480 and then I eventually come back around to it. Yeah. Yeah. 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.800 The main exception to this, I would imagine would be 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.840 when when we occasionally have guests on and sometimes those 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.400 guests have a book coming out, and so uh yeah 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.560 you hear Mary Roach talking about her new book on 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.960 our show, and yes she's also talking about the new 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.200 book on this other podcast or on this NPR shows 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.600 that you know, obviously, all that ends up landing around 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.520 the same time publishing timelines. Yeah. Yeah. But finally coming 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.280 back to your idea of the comparative illusion, and it's 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.520 it's similarity to the Moses effect. I really love this. 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.560 I think it's really interesting. It's it's just another indication 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.080 that there is something so much more to verbal communication 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.800 than just a literal reading of the words in each 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.480 sentence we speak or here, since we can so often 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:11.200 say things or I think especially can pose questions that 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.760 are literally nonsensical as phrased, and yet somehow most of 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.120 the time people understand what we're trying to say. We 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.600 understand what we're hearing, and we just take it in 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:26.200 stride and respond as if the person phrase the question correctly, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.440 which you know, we assume is what they were trying 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.720 to ask. Right now, I want to come back to 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.600 the the idea of of different waters being selected for 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.000 the brewing of coffee. Um, somebody should take this and 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.640 run with it, like pick a particular water and make 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:46.440 that be like the guiding principle behind your your coffee franchise. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:51.360 I'm thinking like Florida Water Coffee. That can well, you 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.520 can to just take the world by storm with that. 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.920 Oh Man. To revisit a recent show topic, heavy Water 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.280 Coffee company, it's all you know, you get your du tier. Um, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.880 it's it's a it's a risky it's a risky lifestyle, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:15.720 but it's the heaviest Okay, Rob, do you wanna let's 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.640 see do you want to do. This message from Brett 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.840 connecting to some older episodes we've done about the ant 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.960 parasite fungus Opeo cor deceps. Sure Brett writes in and says, Hey, 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.760 Robin Joe, I know you guys have touched on zombie 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.720 ant fungus many times, but I don't recall you mentioning 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:37.640 this study from Apparently the researchers discovered through electron microscopy 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.280 that the fungus weaves into and around muscle fibers throughout 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.640 the body, but doesn't invade the brain. To quote the 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.960 paper quote, fungal cells were found throughout the host body 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.920 but not in the brain, implying the behavioral control of 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:55.800 the animal body by this microbe occurs peripherally. Additionally, fungal 0:16:55.840 --> 0:17:00.000 cells invaded host muscle fibers enjoyed together to form net 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.760 works that encircled the muscles. These networks may represent a 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.760 collective foraging behavior of this parasite, which may in turn 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.040 facilitate host manipulation unquote. So the question I post to 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.720 you too is this what is scarier at parasite living 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.560 in your brain and turning you into a zombie or 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.720 the parasite leaving your brain fully in tact so that 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.399 you are forced to observe the horror of your body 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.240 being driven to an involuntary death. Uh. They include the 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.160 quote the link to the paper. Love the show, It's 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.040 genuinely the best podcast out there. Don't ever stop Brett. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.080 Oh thanks Brett. Yeah, that this is a question for 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.600 David Cronenberg. I mean they're both. They're both horrible fates 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.919 to behold, right, the losing control of your body or 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.879 losing control of your mind. I mean really, and I 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.439 think we all think about this probably all the time 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.840 as we get older. Right, Um, you know which what 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.159 what is more dear to me? Uh? You know, and 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.080 preferably you'd want to hold onto both and just the 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.639 parasites leave you completely alone. But uh you know, uh 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.439 not if the parasites have anything to do with it. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.239 As for the particular paper here in this revelation, I 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.760 do remember covering it in some form, but I'm gonna 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.480 loss to remember how if it came up in a 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.359 particular episode, or if I did a blog post about 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.159 it back when blog posts were a thing. I do 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:29.080 remember reading it because it's certainly, you know, turns the 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.600 tables on our on our on what seemed to be 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.440 our understanding of this scenario in the past. Well, yeah, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.600 and I know we have covered OPEO court a SPS. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.680 So if if it was not this paper we were 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.960 looking at, I wonder what else it would have been. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.280 So yeah, I'm not sure, but anyway to give the 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.000 full reference in case you want to look the paper 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:47.959 up for yourself. It's published in P and A s 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.760 INEN by Frederickson at All and it's called three Dimensional 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.680 Visualization of a Deep learning Model Reveal complex fungal parasite 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:06.639 networks in behaviorally manipulated ants. Alright, This next message is 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.680 from Matt. It says, Hey, Robert and Joe. I thought 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:10.240 I would drop you a line on the topic of 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.879 thirst because I seem to have a weak thirst impulse. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.399 What I mean by this is I often don't have, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.160 or at least rarely notice myself being thirsty until I'm 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.080 quite far along the way towards dehydration. It's often to 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.040 the point that if I forget to drink, I will 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.399 develop migraines from dehydration. In response to this, I find 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.000 I often need to schedule out when I drink, such 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.879 as drinking and glass during every even hour throughout the day, 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.639 or I will drink between each appropriately timed task, or 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.080 carry a water bottle with me and just constantly sit 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.720 at it when my activities at work are well suited 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.480 for that one thing that I think is interesting about 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.720 my situation. Though I don't though I don't have a 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:56.440 strong thirst impulse, I do experience the satiation after drinking, 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.840 even if I didn't feel thirsty to begin with. It's 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.119 when I forced myself to drink. My brain goes, oh, yeah, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.080 I forgot to mention we were thirsty. Thanks for that. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.480 And this is interesting, Matt, because it seems to totally 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.800 go along with some of the findings of that thirst 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.200 research we were looking at, which was one of these 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.679 findings was that thirst is not sated by the reverse 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.040 of the process that created it. So you know, the 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.960 thirst is created by this osmolality sensing sensing mechanism in 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.680 the brain that detects dehydration and it tries to get 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:33.919 you to drink. But then when you drink, that good 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.200 feeling you get from swallowing the water is a different process. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.480 It's not just reversing the process that made you thirsty, 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.119 because it actually takes like ten to fifteen minutes or 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.320 so or maybe even more for your body to actually 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.600 become hydrated from that water you drank. Yeah, it's not 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.040 as simple as like a thirst meter in a video game, 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.040 where it's like, oh, well, my character is thirsty, you 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.320 better drink a bunch of water. Uh, And then you 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.400 just remember to keep looking at it to tell uh 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.199 what you need more or if you're good right. And 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.159 this is important for a number of reasons that we 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.399 got into in detail in the episode. So if you 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.240 haven't listened to our third series yet, you go back 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.040 and check that out and then you'll know what we're 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.359 talking about. Oh. But then back to Matt's email. Matt 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.600 suggests a topic after this, which is that he thinks 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.360 maybe we should look into the idea of using indicator 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.240 plants and insects as in a garden to understand the 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.400 condition of the soil and environment that exists there. And 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.399 he he says, I'm not sure the best way of 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.560