1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. We got some big Friday need 4 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: de p energy. We're gonna introduce our super producer, mister 5 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: Max Williams. 6 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa Max, the gap under the stall Williams. 7 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: There it goes. That's none other than the legendary No Brown. 8 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: No, the Brown sound Brown from Browntown. 9 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I love her rhyme. No they called me, they called 10 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: me bawl bull you No, that's good. I thought it 11 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: was good. 12 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: Toilet bowl. Well, that's just putting a hat on a hat, Max, 13 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: that's just putting a hat. 14 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a part too far, And we know how 15 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: that goes. But thinking goes so as always, folks, we 16 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: want to let you know this is a two part series. 17 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: We looked around not too long ago, Noel, Max and 18 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: yours truly, and we said, hey, why did people have 19 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: to pay to poop? And why don't they have to 20 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: pay to poop now? In the United States, Nola's you'll 21 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: recall there was a band aid solution to this great 22 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: sanitation problem in centuries past. For this emergent nation and 23 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: eventually the country arrived at the idea of pay toilets. 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: You had to have a dime in your hand to 25 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: get the poop or the pee out of you. Uh. 26 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: People beat me here, Max, do a fart sound instead 27 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: of a beep if you could. People fucking hated it. 28 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: They really hated it. There was an absolute backlash from 29 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 2: the public. It's sort of like paywalls for podcasts. You know, 30 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: it's really hard to ask people to pay for something 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: that they have historically gotten for free. 32 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And this is the big This is 33 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: the big turn of the commode, and it will keep it. 34 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: This is a big turn of the commode in our 35 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: series here all this irritation over like you described, noel, 36 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: over having something free become a paid thing. All of 37 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: this led to action and one of the most ridiculous 38 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: inspiring movements, not bowel movements, came from a young Dayton, 39 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: Ohio native named Ira gessel And. At the time, in 40 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, our buddy Ira is just nineteen years old. 41 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 2: Boy was he committed to sanitation? Ira at nineteen the 42 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: tender age launched a crusade that grew into a national 43 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: grassroots phenomenon, the Committee to End Pay Toilets in America 44 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: or Septia, which every time I look at it, it 45 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: makes me think of those captures that you see, you know, 46 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: at the bottom of webbe What an interesting thing to 47 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: get up in arms about at the age of nineteen. 48 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: It's so weird, right. His younger brother Michael Gessel, joins 49 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: the cause, as well as two of their high school chums, 50 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: Steve Freuken and Natalie Precker, and their aim was simple 51 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: and ambitious. They said, quote, we are going to eliminate 52 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: pay toilets in the United States through legislation and public pressure. 53 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: These kids did not have a ton of money. They 54 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: did love the press. Ira Gessel would to the media 55 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: and say something along the lines of what you and 56 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: I complained about in part one of this series. He said, 57 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: you could have a fifty dollars bill, but you don't 58 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: have a dime, and that metal box is between you 59 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: and relief. 60 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: He was pissed, and the gang was inspired by the 61 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Turnpike, which at the time was super infamous for 62 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: its pay toilets. The stalls were outfitted with these specialized locks, 63 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: and most of them were manufactured by a particular company 64 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: called nicke O lock that required a dime, and only 65 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: a dime, since no change was given. You know, picture 66 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: like one of those gumball machines. There's a little coin 67 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: slot that will only take a certain size coin and 68 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: you turn the thing and this one will literally use 69 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: that to trigger the locking mechanism. So in order to 70 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: unlock the stall, you had to put in a dime 71 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: and only a dime, turn the thing and then you 72 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: could get access. In late nineteen sixty eight, at a 73 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: Hojo remember Hojo, Howard Johnson along the Turnpike, Ira and 74 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: Mike Well Guessel decided that they had had enough. 75 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the boys were out of dimes. Michael Gessel, 76 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: who is the younger brother, would later say, we thought 77 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: we could do something about it. Now, could we really 78 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: do something about it? At the time, we were in 79 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: high school. By the way, Ira was a senior, Michael 80 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: was a freshman. He says, we didn't know how to 81 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: exercise political power, but we thought we'd have fun with it. 82 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: And we did not like pay toilets. 83 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 2: No, he sure didn't. 84 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and at first, this is a situation where you 85 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,559 Speaker 1: have four bright teenagers. You have four nerds and they're 86 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: figuring out a hobby. They already are friends, They pile up, 87 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: they hang out together, so why not create a little 88 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: mission for fun. Ira and Steve. As we mentioned earlier, 89 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 1: they left for college in September of nineteen sixty nine. 90 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: For a while, they used Septia as a way for 91 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: their crew. They're forcesome to stay in touch, and they 92 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: went back and forth for around a year trying to 93 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: figure out the next best steps. And they were paying 94 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: a dime to poop the whole way. I can imagine 95 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: they were like the rest of the US public. They 96 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: hated pay toilets, but they didn't really understand how to 97 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: fight back against them. 98 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: So in June of nineteen seventy, Septya it sounds like 99 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: a Transformers like gang of Villainous Autobots or dycepticoncers the 100 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: I Joe, There You Go exactly. Sept Ya hell its 101 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: first official meeting at the Dayton Public Library, and though 102 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: it did start a little bit late, around fifteen minutes 103 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: because library officials were worried that there wasn't an adult 104 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: in the room, the meeting was attended by twenty nine members, 105 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: mostly friends of the four founders, and the group cited 106 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: a total membership roster of forty eight at the time. 107 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: Why are all these young folks so concerned about this? 108 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: It's such an interesting cause to get to get all 109 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: worked up over. I guess I get it, though, I 110 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: mean times were different, you know, they were maybe looking 111 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 2: at it from a different through a different lens. 112 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: Cool way to hang out. 113 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: Also, sure, you gotta you know what it's good to say. Hey, 114 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: it's a good reason to get together. Lifetime membership only 115 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: cost a quarter, you know, and included a card signed 116 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: by one of the founders as well as the group 117 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: had an anthem, a newsletter and a logo and the anthem. 118 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: What was the tune to the anthem? Then we've got 119 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: the lyrics here, but I wish I knew what it 120 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: was what the tune was. Usually anthems like this are 121 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: done to like popular tunes. 122 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a high school fight song. We can 123 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: maybe do it with some music. I think the meter 124 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: shows us will work until we know that toilets in 125 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: America are free wherever we go. We'll flush them out, 126 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: We'll wipe them out. We pledge, Oh Sceptia, something like. 127 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: That, Receptia, Oh Captain my captain. The quarterly newsletter, which 128 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: is entitled The Free Toilet Paper, is this like a 129 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: gut it? I do get it? This particular newsletter reported 130 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: on the group's various causes and activities, as well as 131 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: the odd anecdote about encountering pay toilets in the wild. 132 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: In the very first issue, Michael laid out what could 133 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: be taken as the group's kind of, you know, modus operandi, 134 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: a bit of a manifesto. We feel that pay toilets 135 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: are unjust infringements on our basic human rights. Elimination is 136 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: an important body function that must take place dime or 137 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: no dime. This sounds like something that Larry David would 138 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: get up, Absolutely does it not? 139 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: Do you do the rest of the quote and the 140 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: Larry David voice. 141 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: The Social Action Committee hopes to be able to present 142 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 3: STEPTIA members with effective weapons of guerrilla warfare in the 143 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: form of bumper stickers, the brainless donkeys of the field. 144 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, we should not stroke beards. 145 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: So an umbrella is a man's own. Us are very 146 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: good and umbrella, it's your old umbrella. They also except 147 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: you had a logo that they pulled from the way 148 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: more serious New Left movement. It's a fist coming out 149 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: of the toilet, grasping chains and rising, you know from 150 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: that commode. Well, we've got we've got a picture here. 151 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: It looks so weird, dude, It's really weird. 152 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: Man. 153 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: Isn't a chain because it has clearly a lock, but 154 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: it kind of looks like a duty It looks. 155 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: Like a duty chain. Yeah, no, duty bounds is what 156 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: they were to eliminate this, this this malicious pay toilet 157 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 2: scourge that had ravished the United States ravage rather. I 158 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: don't know, man, all of this stuff taken as a whole, 159 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: really feels like a gag movement. But it feels a 160 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: little bit of a troll. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. 161 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: No, I think we're on the same page here, man, 162 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: because it feels like, uh, or we're sitting on the 163 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: same stall here. Because it feels like this was Discordianism, right, 164 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: This was artful, artful agents of chaos by. 165 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: Sort of like the birds aren't real movement. 166 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: Somewhat similar, for sure. In early nineteen seventy one, our 167 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: friends at Septia announced that they were funded to a 168 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: grand total of twenty five dollars and twenty cents if 169 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: we could do an inflation calculator. 170 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: And a dude, that's a boop. 171 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: That's a boo, that's a boop. That is about two 172 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve dollars and nineteen cents in twenty twenty six. 173 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, even with those inflated numbers, that doesn't quite seem 174 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: like a lot budgets to operate an entire organization. The 175 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: brothers were able to save a bit more money using 176 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: their dad's printing machines. So now, obviously you need a 177 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: lot of money to push these kind of pamphlets and 178 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 2: political agendas actually through Congress, and twenty five bucks, even 179 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: again with those inflated numbers, wasn't going to do it. 180 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: But these kids did have something on their side, and 181 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 2: that was perfect timing because people were already pretty irritated 182 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: about this stuff and their beliefs aligned with some pretty 183 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: powerful folks. 184 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yet they were not the only people with their 185 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of the zeitgeist here. A lot 186 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: of people hated pay toilets, and a lot of those 187 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: haters included legislators, specifically folks like a California assembly woman 188 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: named March fong Uh who proposed a bill that would 189 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: ban toilets in public places throughout the state if you 190 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: had to pay for them. Now, assembly Woman Fong was 191 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: a fan of dramatic performances. I think we'll all love 192 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: this one time. This is a true story. She draped 193 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: a toilet in chains in front of the California State 194 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: Capitol and called the press over and absolutely knocked the 195 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: crap out of it into bits, with the crap out 196 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: of it into bits with a hammer. We can't avoid 197 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: these puns, folks. 198 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: They they happened organically. So do you think that what 199 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: is this a chicken or the egg thing? Did the 200 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 2: sepsio logo align with that or was it just parallel 201 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: thinking with the chains and the toilet? 202 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: You know, I still wonder. No, I think I want 203 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: to say parallel thinking. Yeah. Unfortunately, assembly Woman Pong's bill 204 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: did fail, But there were other bills that were going 205 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: around fighting the poop power of the pay toilet industry. 206 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: Somebody in Oregon, a state senator named Edward Fatally, attempted 207 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: to pass legislation banning pay toilets. 208 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: Didn't work. 209 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: Another similar piece of legislation went in Illinois that wouldn't 210 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: flush either. This became a culture war Septia to your 211 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: earlier quote from Michael Gessel. They always claimed free bathrooms 212 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: are a basic human right, and opponents struck back and said, 213 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: it's our right, as the people who own the bathrooms, 214 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: to do whatever the heck we want with our toilets, 215 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: and they got it's so weird, like if you've ever 216 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: seen if you've ever seen the old clips of when 217 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: seat belt legislation came into full effect and people were like, ah, 218 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: it's an American to tell me how to drive my car. 219 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: The gas station owners, the business owners are fighting tooth, 220 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: nail and claw and tentacle against the idea of free restrooms. 221 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: And speaking to a Maryland state legislative committee in nineteen 222 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 2: seventy one, particular gas station owner commented, lustie very very 223 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: passionate stuff. If a man ain't got a dime in 224 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 2: his pocket, he shouldn't be using my restrooms. 225 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 4: Now. 226 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: That is that is about out of touch A way 227 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: to phrase that as could possibly be done. Yeah, because 228 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: he's clear if you don't have any money, you don't 229 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: deserve to use the facilities. 230 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. It he's clearly saying I want more dimes in 231 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: my pocket. He concluded in that committee statement, you're talking about. 232 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventy he concluded that getting rid of 233 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: pay toilets would be quote, the biggest mistake ever in 234 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: Maryland end quote. It kind of ignores a lot of 235 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: stuff that happened in Maryland over the previous decades. Business 236 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: owners in large cities agreed, and a lot of them, 237 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: from Chicago to Boston would say that charging people to 238 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: use those toilets was a constitutional. 239 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: Right, which again I think we can see both sides. 240 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: You know it is. We do still in some respects 241 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: abide by this notion of business owners reserve the right 242 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: to refuse anyone's service private property. It's private property. It 243 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: seems like they should be able to do this. The 244 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: question of whether they should, but that is a different 245 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: argument as to whether the public will stand for it 246 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: and what the optics of its are. 247 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and all these business owners, to be honest, are 248 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: being misleading. Everybody knows that beneath this winging about democratic 249 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: and constitutional ideals, the real motivation for the pay to 250 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: poop crowd is economic. It is financial. A bunch of 251 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: newspapers around the time of this script fuffle, they looked 252 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: at the numbers and they said, these pay to poop. 253 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: Toilet stalls are raking in about thirty million dollars annually. Again, 254 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: that's the early seventies. That equates to more than two 255 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: hundred and forty eight million dollars in twenty twenty six. 256 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: Fascinating exads. 257 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's big poop business. And like 258 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned that company, nico Lock, Right, nico Lock gets 259 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: a huge slice of that thirty million dollar pie. And 260 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: they're getting worried. And they have the money, right, they 261 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: have the power and the lobbying juice in the halls 262 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: of Congress. So they go on the offensive. They get 263 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: interviews with the Wall Street Journal and so on. They 264 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: team up with other manufacturers and they issue a lot 265 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: of statements that aged like milk left out in the sun. 266 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: They say, look, we have to have pay toilets because 267 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: those quote discourage drug addicts, homosexuals, muggers, and just playing 268 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: hippies from haunting public restrooms. Oh my gosh, oh, perish 269 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: the thought. 270 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: So this company that made these locks also printed and 271 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: distributed a leaflet they were trying to influence public opinion, 272 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: a leaflet titled why pay toilets? Why pay toilets? Septcha 273 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 2: published a counter pamphlet titled why Not Pay Toilets, which 274 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 2: feature the organization's first widespread usage of the feminist argument, 275 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: which we mentioned earlier and makes a lot of sense. 276 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: You know, it's it's a it's a very common sense 277 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: approach to this that again, like fifty percent population can 278 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 2: relate to. Yet SEPTA's founders largely resisted the urge to 279 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: stray entirely from their single issue position, you know, as 280 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: an organization. 281 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: This is where we go to folks like Stephen Karganovic, 282 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: who was president of the Cargo Chapter of Septia, because 283 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: again Septia was massively expanding. This guy, Steve, he writes 284 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: into the Chicago Tribune, a paper of wonderful note, and 285 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: he says, quote, as young people become increasingly disenchanted with 286 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: nihilism and grandiose but ineffectual or destructive schemes, they should 287 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: be encouraged to deal with each problem separately and modestly 288 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: as the only sure way to serve the people and 289 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: improve our life, our way of life. So Steve here 290 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: is saying, look, we're Septia. We know we're becoming more 291 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: politically important. We're not branching out into other movements. We 292 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: just it's so Larry David dude. They just say, we 293 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: don't think you should have to pay the poop. And 294 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: people are getting behind this in an increasingly divisive United States. 295 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: If we fast forward, it's nineteen seventy three, January eleventh, 296 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: a ton of reporters from various outlets convene at the 297 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: Chicago Sheraton Hotel, and we're talking folks like UPI, Reuters, 298 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: the Associated Press, the four founding members of Septia, who 299 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: are all still by the way college students at this point. 300 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: They sit together on a small stage and they kind 301 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: of pass the mic like a posse hip hop track, 302 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: and they just sort of they trade off statements to 303 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: make a huge impression, huge splash. 304 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: Keep it a huge splash, indeed, and it was a 305 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 2: bit of a heated exchange. Michael Gessel told reporters pay 306 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 2: toilets loom in the dusty corridors of our nation's bus 307 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: and train stations. They await this is Larry. 308 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 4: The unwary traveler. In the shiny restrooms of our airports. 309 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 4: They find victims in shopping malls, restaurants, hotels, potman stores, 310 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 4: and launder still. 311 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 2: Feels like a troll man. This is so funny. 312 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 4: Whatever man goes, the specter of the pay toilets is 313 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 4: sure to appear. 314 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the audience is wrapped with attention and awe. 315 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: Our founders of Septia also note some open secrets. Again, 316 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: I keep going back to anarchism and discordianism. They say, look, 317 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: Nicolaus spending a lot of money, but it's pretty easy 318 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: to bypass these stall locking mechanisms. Is where Precker takes 319 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: a floor and explains the four common methods of bypassing 320 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: these locks. One is the American crawl. That's where you 321 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: crawl under the stall door because you really got a poop. 322 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: You get the doorman. That's where you are sacrificing for 323 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: the public good. You put your diamond the lock, and 324 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: then you just hold the door open as long as 325 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: you can for other people to poop. 326 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 2: And of course we've got the sticket, which involves placing 327 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: a piece of invisible tape over the locking mechanism so 328 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: it can't engage ben. I can't help but be reminded 329 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: of the old trick that I don't know if anybody 330 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: ever actually did this, but drilling a hole in a 331 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 2: dime and tying a string around us to get a 332 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: free call out of an old pay phone. 333 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, used to work, used to work. 334 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: Yep. And then we've got, of course, finally the stuff 335 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: we know a lot about that, don't we ben where 336 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: some unused toilet paper is lodged into the locking mechanism. 337 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: So at this point we've almost got like a Luddite 338 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: level act of you know, sabotage going on. 339 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you get in situations right. This is a 340 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: brilliant piece of pr on Septia side, because they're saying, 341 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: not only is what's happening wrong and a symptom of 342 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: big business picking on the little poop, but this also 343 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: is a paper tiger. The emperor of stole locks really 344 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: has no clothing because it's so easy to break the 345 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: locker bypass it. Nico Lock, the main company here, hates this, 346 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: but there is an immediate impact. A month after that 347 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: press conference, then Mayor of Chicago, Richard J. Daly says 348 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: pay toilets are going away. All the toilets at the 349 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: city's airports are going to be free. He did say 350 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: I did it for women's lib recalling feminism movements and 351 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: women's liberation, and then later that March, Chicago went further. 352 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: They banned pay toilets all together. This was the first 353 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: major US city to do this. Nico Lock took them 354 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: to court. Nico Lock lost the case, maybe because the 355 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: judge had to poop. 356 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: And the rest is history. Over the next few years, California, Alaska, Florida, Iowa, 357 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: and Nevada, New York and New Jersey and acted similar laws. 358 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 2: SEPTIA membership ballooned in lockstep with these changes, and still 359 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: just a quarter for life time membership or two and 360 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 2: a half poops at a paid toilet. We did the math. 361 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 2: We did the math. We did the cocktail math. By 362 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, they had an estimated eighteen hundred members 363 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: across units. It's still, you know, not a legion, but 364 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 2: you know, a modest membership. 365 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm just loving this. Larry David comparison. We're huge, huge 366 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: fans of Larry and this feels like he would This 367 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: feels like something he would be spearheading. 368 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 2: He'd run point common sense, Yes, he would say so. 369 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: Septia eventually dissolves. This leads to why you poop for 370 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: free in a lot of the United States. We have 371 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: to remember these are high school kids, very bright, very 372 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: prescian kids, who created this as a way to hang out, 373 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: and they went to college. They live their normal lives. 374 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: They graduated, they found careers, by the way, primarily outside 375 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: of the toilet and plumbing industry. Eventually they all agreed 376 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: it was time to bid the organization a do. They 377 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: could not linger in the stole of activism forever. Michael, 378 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: the younger of the Guestler brothers, was the longest serving 379 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: president of SEPTIA, and he noted, I'm not sure how 380 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 1: we want to intone this quote, but he noted, it 381 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: became very time consuming because it evolved into a very 382 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: serious advocacy effort, and we didn't have the time to 383 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: keep it up. The burden of continuing the work grew, 384 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: and so it came to. 385 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: Ma chuing the work. Man. I'm sorry. It's also frivolous, right, 386 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 2: it's so, it's. 387 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: I love it. I love the daring do I love the. 388 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: Bravado and the daring. Indeed, Oh no, no, okay, So 389 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: what we're saying, nothing to be done, nothing to be done, 390 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: nothing to be done. 391 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: So in June of nineteen seventy six, Septia issues a 392 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: news release where they claim victory and they announced that 393 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: they're closing down Septia. Noel, can you give us the 394 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: quote here? 395 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: Sure well, Ben, I sure will. It reads in part, 396 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: there are so many anti paid toilet bills being introduced 397 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 2: around the country that we can no longer keep track 398 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: of all of them. Septia wasn't making a bid for power. 399 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: Its end was its own elimination. Remember the term elimination 400 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: that means pooping and ping. 401 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, weird finger of the bulls here, folks. This is 402 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: this is why the United States of America has so 403 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: many free toilets today. And thank goodness, because can you 404 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: imagine the smell? It's already no. My pal Nol spends 405 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: a lot lot of time in New York. I go 406 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: there pretty frequently. Crude and summer has a specific smell. 407 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: It does been and I will argue this. We've already 408 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: mentioned that there are a lot of pay toilets and 409 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: parts of Asia, in countries and cities that are known 410 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: for being very very clean. In parts of Europe, et cetera. 411 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 2: And in New York, for example, it's real hard to 412 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: find a public restroom, exceedingly hard so I would argue, 413 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 2: at least for me, I would much rather I would 414 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 2: gladly spend a dime for a clean public restroom. And 415 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: I will say this, I am starting to notice more 416 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: of these kind of restroom pods, not porta potties, but 417 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 2: like popping up. I think I'm starting to I've seen 418 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 2: a few in Atlanta even, yes, that are kind of 419 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: they look like almost like little I don't know, kind 420 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: of like those breastfeeding stations and airports, you know, and 421 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: I love I like that. I don't think they're pay 422 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: but there is something to be said. I think they 423 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 2: might have some self cleaning mechanisms. I know certainly there 424 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: are public restrooms in cities in Europe and in Asia 425 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: again that have some self cleaning methodology behind them. But 426 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: I'd gladly pay a dime to use the restroom rather 427 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: than have to buy an obligatory coffee or something that 428 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: I didn't want. 429 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd pay a dollar, especially if you could tap 430 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: your card right and you didn't need exact change, because 431 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: that's part of the reason people were so head up 432 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: and up in arms. We do to your point, in 433 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: noal have to recognize that pay toilets are still very 434 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: much a gray area in the United States, buy something 435 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: right before you use the facilities, but they're also very 436 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: much the norm and a lot of other countries. I 437 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: remember Max and I were talking about this off air 438 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: back before the podcasting stuff. When I had to live 439 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: in Central America. I learned that some restrooms are technically free. 440 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: But get this, dude, there's no toilet paper. 441 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 442 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: Sticks. There are groups of people outside, usually entrepreneurs, sometimes 443 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: run by organized crime. They sell you toilet paper by 444 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: the square. 445 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: Wow, what did that run you? 446 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: Well, I did have. I'm not going to go into detail, 447 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: but the first time I found it out the hard way. 448 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: One would imagine that in these circumstances you would learn 449 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: to travel with your own at the very least, maybe 450 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: some of those little you know, tissues, travel tissue mackets. 451 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. We also found a uh. We also found several 452 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: comprehensive lists of the cost of pay toilets in Europe, 453 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: where we we spend a fair amount of time. Uh. 454 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: It's like it's one euro at some stations in Germany. 455 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: It's an affair. It's like a whole operation that that 456 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: maintains these these these toilets. And again, uh, they are 457 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: quite clean and and you can pretty much for the 458 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 2: most part, guarantee a continent of the service. Let's just 459 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: call it. 460 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: There we go. I like that sort of phrase, and 461 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: I bet it's even better at a La Mountain right 462 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: in German. So we know that, we know that, we 463 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: know that we might sound like fancy boys. But I 464 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: think if we treat the public restroom as a human right, 465 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: as a public good for dignity and overall sanitation, we 466 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: also do have to recognize that, at least in some 467 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: other countries, pay toilets do make sense, right, They make 468 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: euros and sense or centavos or what have you. Like it. 469 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: They are cleaner, like you were saying. 470 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: And it's not that different from like in Europe as well. 471 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: You have to leave a deposit for glass bottles, for example, 472 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: and then if you return the glass bottles, you get 473 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: the deposit back. So there are little systems like that 474 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: in place that just are kind of common sense that 475 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: do lead to less littering and cleaner facilities. So I'm 476 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: just saying. 477 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: And for a long time, by the way, a public 478 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: urination was legal in Finland just the off chance you 479 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: have to be Yeah, you might be on the way 480 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: to Finland tonight, folks, please you remember that is no 481 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: longer the case. 482 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just again back to Germany's system, that Santa 483 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 2: Fair system. You can find those at rest stops along 484 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: the Autobahn, the famous interstate highway system where people drive 485 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: exceedingly fast. These Santa Fair facilities are like I was 486 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: mentioning earlier, self cleaning cubicles. They cost about lists to 487 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: call it, seventy cents. You get a voucher. It's valid 488 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: at participating shops in restaurants, so there's actually sort of 489 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: a little bit of a trade off going there, whether 490 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: you like it or not. Santa Fair facilities are consistently cleaned, 491 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: well maintained. In Berlin, for example, at the haupt Banhoff, 492 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: which is the health bound hov is just referred to 493 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: the large main transit station. You're gonna also see examples 494 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 2: of these fair systems. 495 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and with this, we hope you we hope you've 496 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: had a great time listening to this two part series 497 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: wherever you might be, guys, I want to share one 498 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: thing as we're dropping off here. This is the picture 499 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: of assembly woman from California knocking out a toilet bound 500 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: by chains at a protest and she looks so happy. 501 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: And that's our show for this week. Thank you so 502 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Please stay tuned for our upcoming 503 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: classic episodes. Big big thanks to our super producer mister 504 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: Max Williams, as well as Jonathan Strickland aka the quister, 505 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: who one time tried to charge me five dollars to 506 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 1: pee in his house. I went outside. 507 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: Well, at least you could be sure that his facilities 508 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: would always be an impeccable working order and states of pending, 509 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 2: because we know that Jonathan parlays that money into the 510 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: maintenance of his restroom facilities. 511 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: Big big thanks always, of course to our own underwater 512 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: explosion expert, doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance. 513 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: And that don't just mean pooping in the pool, That 514 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: doesn't just. 515 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Be pooping in the pool. Big Friday Energy here, Big 516 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: thanks too, of course, aj Bahamas, Jacobs, who else know 517 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: who else? Who else is? 518 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: Oh geez, you know the usual Christ Frasiotis and Eaves 519 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: Jeff Coates here in spirit. 520 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and big thanks to the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. 521 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: If you like us, you'll love them. We can't thank 522 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: everybody who works on public sanitation enough. I feel like 523 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: it's one of the most underappreciated roles in society, literally 524 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: saving lives. Let me get off the soapbox, let me 525 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: get out of the stall. 526 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: Here. What a wild ride, dude, Oh the wildest. I 527 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: love it, love it. Nothing better than a two parter 528 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: on poop. We'll see you next time, folks. For more 529 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 530 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.