Speaker 1: The volume. All right, welcome to Hoops and I here
Speaker 1: at the volume heavy Wednesday. Everybody, Oh Paul, you guys
Speaker 1: are having a great week. We are so happy to
Speaker 1: have Sam's fondi Ari from the Warriors, who covers the
Speaker 1: Warriors with the light Years podcast on the show today.
Speaker 1: I was doing a mail bag earlier this morning and
Speaker 1: we had a question that was asking about my favorite
Speaker 1: off season moves and my least favorite off season moves.
Speaker 1: And I was going back through and there's one team,
Speaker 1: conspicuously who's done a whole lot of nothing. And Sam,
Speaker 1: I've been seeing a lot of chairs on my social
Speaker 1: media feed all of a sudden, I was hoping you
Speaker 1: could kind of get me up to speed with how
Speaker 1: the Warriors off season, how the fan base is doing
Speaker 1: with this offseason so far.
Speaker 2: We are in the chair right now. That is what's
Speaker 2: going on in Warriors Land. I mean, on the plus side,
Speaker 2: they're not going to get nominated for worst move of
Speaker 2: the offseason. Can't be nominated for worst move if you
Speaker 2: haven't done anything yet. Uh No, it's been weird, and
Speaker 2: like I've been kind of oscillating between frustration over like
Speaker 2: what are they doing? And then the more rational side,
Speaker 2: where it's like new CBA seems like there's a lot
Speaker 2: of new behaviors that we didn't see in previous years,
Speaker 2: and trying to rationalize it, like maybe this is the
Speaker 2: new reality of how this stuff goes. Maybe it's gonna
Speaker 2: be a little more like baseball, which no one should
Speaker 2: really want to be, like where the free agency period
Speaker 2: leads to players being unsigned until like a week before
Speaker 2: players report for spring training or in the NBA's case,
Speaker 2: you know, training camp. Maybe that's maybe that's the new reality.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the paradigm shift we're moving towards. So I
Speaker 2: don't know, If nothing else, it's not what I expected.
Speaker 1: Well, they finally make the big move, right the go
Speaker 1: get Jimmy and I remember you and I. You and
Speaker 1: I discussed a throughout the last season, like which kind
Speaker 1: of guy they would potentially go after. It would be
Speaker 1: a Cam Johnson, would it be a Zach Levine? I
Speaker 1: remember you and I even getting into a discussion over
Speaker 1: the pros and cons between Zach and Jimmy and like
Speaker 1: what their fit is like. And I would argue the
Speaker 1: Jimmy fit has been a resounding success. It is unlocked
Speaker 1: a higher level of belief and motivation from Stephen Draymond
Speaker 1: and tied so many loose ends together. But if you
Speaker 1: look around the league, they still look before we go
Speaker 1: any further, they still feel to me like a second
Speaker 1: tier team in the West.
Speaker 2: You agree with that, well, yeah, they only have nine
Speaker 2: players on the roster, So yeah, like by virtue of
Speaker 2: the fact that it's incomplete, I mean, if they go
Speaker 2: into the season nine players, I don't know if they'll
Speaker 2: make it to the playoffs. To be honest with you,
Speaker 2: they might just not be healthy. But yeah, i'd agree
Speaker 2: with you, Like a lot of it depends on how
Speaker 2: they round out this roster. I think you can make
Speaker 2: a case that they have a championship level core, but
Speaker 2: because it's older, they don't just need two additional players.
Speaker 2: They need like five or six rotation players that they trust,
Speaker 2: and they probably need a little bit of luck health
Speaker 2: wise to get into a playoff series fully healthy, which
Speaker 2: wasn't the case last year of Minnesota. Then and then
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens. But yeah, to your point, like
Speaker 2: second tier at best right now, given that theyly have
Speaker 2: nine players and two of them are two way guys from.
Speaker 1: Last year, and there is that strong foundation, like I
Speaker 1: do believe in Jimmy, Steph and Draymond as a core.
Speaker 1: You're right, they're older, which means they need more support,
Speaker 1: especially in the regular season with holding up for eighty
Speaker 1: two games. But as we look around the rest of
Speaker 1: the West and we're seeing, for lack of a better
Speaker 1: way of putting it, just everyone else is making additions. Right,
Speaker 1: every like Denver, you could argue is better. The Lakers
Speaker 1: are better, the Clippers are better, you can the Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City obviously is standing. Papa Houston got better. Everyone's getting better,
Speaker 1: and so it seems like it's more the inactivity juxtaposed
Speaker 1: with everything else than anything else at this point. Now,
Speaker 1: the main thing that I'm looking at as I look
Speaker 1: from obviously from Afar, it seems as though everything has
Speaker 1: just been in a holding pattern based on the Jonathan
Speaker 1: Kaminga situation. So what's going on with the Jonathan Minga situation?
Speaker 1: How do you see this story ending?
Speaker 2: Well, so I think it's important that we explain why
Speaker 2: they haven't signed other players because you've seen the reports.
Speaker 2: I've seen the reports like apparently Al Horford is a
Speaker 2: done deal and Danthony Melton is as close to a
Speaker 2: done deal as one could be, which leads to questions
Speaker 2: like why haven't they just signed already? Right until they
Speaker 2: know what Kuminga's contract number is, they do not know
Speaker 2: which exceptions they have access to and which ones they don't.
Speaker 2: So they might have handshake agreements, but if they sign
Speaker 2: them first, it could trigger a situation where they would
Speaker 2: actually hardcap themselves, and then another team could come in
Speaker 2: and offer Kuminga a number that's legitimately too high for
Speaker 2: them to match. Gotta love the new CBA turns us
Speaker 2: all on to lawyers, right, So that's kind of what's
Speaker 2: going on with that situation. But to the bigger question,
Speaker 2: which is what you're asking holding pattern. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's bad advice. I don't know if it's him
Speaker 2: having unrealistic expectations for his market, but the reality is
Speaker 2: he sees himself as a player could be an all
Speaker 2: star in this league, and he wants to be treated
Speaker 2: and paid like one like the player I always think
Speaker 2: of as Jalen Green. They were teammates on that G
Speaker 2: League iig NIT team. From Kuminga's perspective, you know, he
Speaker 2: saw Jalen Green go to Houston and get three years
Speaker 2: of you know, thirty five minutes a game, figure it out.
Speaker 2: You know, he got to screw up along the way,
Speaker 2: and then at the end of it, he got thirty
Speaker 2: five million a year, and that's kind of been the
Speaker 2: number that's been floated out there. Kuminga wants over thirty.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that's the player he's benchmarking himself too, and
Speaker 2: the Warriors, by virtue of the market and really using
Speaker 2: comps of players similar to him, it seems like the
Speaker 2: market says he's worth more like twenty. And so that's
Speaker 2: kind of where we're sitting here, and I don't really
Speaker 2: know what's going to force a move here, Like I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to force something, because it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like there's gonna be this secret team that
Speaker 2: comes out of nowhere and opens up cap space and
Speaker 2: throws this, you know, thirty million a year off a
Speaker 2: sheet at him, And it doesn't seem like there's these
Speaker 2: teams out there who are also willing to give it
Speaker 2: to him and then negotiate a trade that satisfies the Warriors' needs,
Speaker 2: because the Warriors want to get back a player who
Speaker 2: they can use in their rotation and an asset for
Speaker 2: him now, who knows what the actual settling price is,
Speaker 2: but like all those variables are leading to what, honestly
Speaker 2: like it feels like it's going to go another couple
Speaker 2: of weeks at minimum at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to dig into this for a little
Speaker 1: bit because this is this to me is fascinating before
Speaker 1: we look to the future in what this could look
Speaker 1: like in terms of retaining him or as sign in
Speaker 1: trade or anything that could happen to restricted free agency.
Speaker 1: What happened Jonathan Minga is super unfortunate and it's unfortunate
Speaker 1: for the Warriors as well. It's unfortunate on both sides
Speaker 1: in the sense that you're right, Like if you're looking
Speaker 1: at the Jalen Green situation, even if you could argue,
Speaker 1: I would argue that Jalen's a better player than Jonathan,
Speaker 1: even though they're both in a similar tier. I think
Speaker 1: Jalen's shown just a little bit more of an explosive
Speaker 1: upside as a score, but to your point, with a
Speaker 1: lot longer runway, with a lot more opportunity. But even
Speaker 1: if you want to argue that they're in that same
Speaker 1: kind of like situation, within that scope, I could see
Speaker 1: why Jonathan Kminga would look at that and go like,
Speaker 1: what the hell, man, Like, I'm stuck in this situation
Speaker 1: where I'm expected to fit alongside this ecosystem that demands
Speaker 1: these very specific things for me. Whereas with Jalen, he
Speaker 1: was allowed to go and effectively be himself for better
Speaker 1: or for worse, and that dictated this pathway that is
Speaker 1: very different than what happened with Jonathan. You combine it
Speaker 1: with the fact that we head into a specific summer
Speaker 1: in terms of available cap space around the where it's
Speaker 1: brutal for anybody to be a restricted free agent in
Speaker 1: this particular summer, and so it's just kind of like
Speaker 1: this confluence of really unfortunate events that has led to
Speaker 1: this situation. So, if we could go back in time,
Speaker 1: is there a specific moment within the last few years
Speaker 1: where you think it made the most sense to trade
Speaker 1: Jonathan and that had they done it at that point,
Speaker 1: it would have been better for both of the parties.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to me. As time goes on, the
Speaker 2: most obvious moment was January of twenty twenty four, and
Speaker 2: that was when he got benched in a game against
Speaker 2: the Nuggets, and Steve Kerr benched him because he made
Speaker 2: a couple of mistakes on defense and they were trying
Speaker 2: to win a game that happened to be that game
Speaker 2: that Jokic basically hit a half court heave to win.
Speaker 2: It was like the peak of like what can't he do? Right?
Speaker 2: Like he was just he was in like one of
Speaker 2: those moments, but the Wards were winning. When Kuming was
Speaker 2: on the floor, he got taken off and just that
Speaker 2: that was a year's worth of frustration of him getting
Speaker 2: you know, the short leash. Whereas you know, like obviously
Speaker 2: like Steph has his games where he turns the ball
Speaker 2: over but he doesn't get the short leash on a turnover,
Speaker 2: you know that sort of thing. And he leaks to
Speaker 2: he leaks to Shams that he's losing faith in Steve Kerr,
Speaker 2: which is hilarious. He might be the worst player in
Speaker 2: NBA history to demand it trade publicly at that point
Speaker 2: in his NBA career. Like if you just think about
Speaker 2: it as like, who are you to be publicly blasting
Speaker 2: your championship head coach like this? You know, it's like
Speaker 2: it's one thing if Lebron does it, It's honestly, it's
Speaker 2: like one thing. If like Westbrook or like established consistent
Speaker 2: all stars do it, it's another thing if it's a
Speaker 2: guy who's proven nothing in the in the context of
Speaker 2: the league. To me, that was the moment where a
Speaker 2: more savvy front office would have realized this isn't gonna work.
Speaker 2: This is not gonna work. The head coach, the star players,
Speaker 2: they have very specific expectations and he just does not
Speaker 2: want to buy in the way they want to, or
Speaker 2: maybe he can't. There's always that the possibility that like
Speaker 2: he's just too raw, Like the only way he's gonna
Speaker 2: learn is giving him three thousand minutes with no leash,
Speaker 2: and they don't have the space to do it. You know,
Speaker 2: there's always that argument, which is to give him what
Speaker 2: he needs to get to where they need him to
Speaker 2: get to, they would actually have to be okay with
Speaker 2: throwing a season away, and they were never okay with it.
Speaker 2: And so to me, that was the moment they should
Speaker 2: have done it, because he was right in the middle
Speaker 2: of what was probably the best play of his career.
Speaker 2: In that January he went on to I can't remember
Speaker 2: the numbers, but it was something like, you know, he
Speaker 2: scored over twenty.
Speaker 1: Or something.
Speaker 2: So it was just a consistent thing where you could
Speaker 2: see the vision of what he could become as a
Speaker 2: player right where he's just like, no one can stay
Speaker 2: in front of him one on one. He's too quick
Speaker 2: and too strong to be guarded one on one in
Speaker 2: an open paint, you know. And so that was when
Speaker 2: Siakam got traded to Indiana. And I know there's rumors
Speaker 2: that Siakam wasn't willing to re sign with the Warriors.
Speaker 2: We'll see, every player says that until you put the
Speaker 2: money in front of them. You know, every player, every
Speaker 2: player said, Jimmy was unwilling to go to the Warriors
Speaker 2: until they said they would maxim. You know, he was
Speaker 2: unwilling to go, and they said, how do you feel
Speaker 2: about taking a you know, ten million of year pay
Speaker 2: cut or something, and he's like, now I want to
Speaker 2: go to Phoenix. You know, It's funny how those things change. Right,
Speaker 2: So to me, that was the obvious point that they
Speaker 2: should have done it hindsight's twenty twenty. Also, just from
Speaker 2: a realistic standpoint, middle of his third year, it would
Speaker 2: have given the team who traded for him at least
Speaker 2: a year before they had to make a contract decision,
Speaker 2: because now the single biggest issue they're dealing with, even
Speaker 2: if they want to trade him, trading for him and
Speaker 2: guaranteeing nine figures is a different thing than trading for
Speaker 2: him when he's on a rookie deal and you have
Speaker 2: eighteen months to figure out how much you really like
Speaker 2: him and how much he's foundational for your team. So
Speaker 2: for me, you know, it's easy to say they should
Speaker 2: have traded him on draft night, but to me that
Speaker 2: was kind of the one where it's like, okay, you
Speaker 2: kept him during the draft. He didn't develop as fast
Speaker 2: as you wanted, and you didn't have the space to
Speaker 2: give him the play anyway, and now you have these
Speaker 2: public outbursts in a way that's kind of unbecoming, honestly,
Speaker 2: and honestly, the way they played it, I think only
Speaker 2: fueled him to kind of have an attitude and a
Speaker 2: disdain for what they're doing, because I could have seen
Speaker 2: him getting suspended for that. You know, you could have
Speaker 2: seen another organization be like, you can't do that. You
Speaker 2: know you can't publicly do that, We're suspending you. But
Speaker 2: they put him in a starting lineup the next game.
Speaker 2: They essentially gave him what he wanted. So a lot
Speaker 2: of it was hoping that, you know, this will come together.
Speaker 2: I think hindsight shows us you can't. You know, human
Speaker 2: nature is what it is, and you kind of have
Speaker 2: to be a little more pragmatic and realistic in these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I put down after the Lakers loss in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, which is more or less the same trade cycle,
Speaker 1: right like that that off season into the next deadline,
Speaker 1: because like during the title year, I was advocating for
Speaker 1: it at the time. At the time, I was thinking, like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a way you can push your
Speaker 1: chips in you're effectively not using these guys, they're not
Speaker 1: in your playoff rotation. Why not make some sort of
Speaker 1: move with Kaminga and Wiseman at the time to try
Speaker 1: to essentially maximize your title lots. Now, to Lakeup's credit,
Speaker 1: he held off and you guys got the job done.
Speaker 1: And so at the time he looked like a genius
Speaker 1: because he's like, now, it's the two timelines thing. We
Speaker 1: have a championship team and we have these guys that
Speaker 1: could potentially develop into the next era. What he missed
Speaker 1: there was just the lightning in a bottle you guys
Speaker 1: caught with Jordan and with Andrew in that particular season
Speaker 1: where both guys went down a level the following season
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it looked like you needed
Speaker 1: more firepower. And that was when the move should have
Speaker 1: been made. To your point, was at that point in
Speaker 1: time when it was clear going into that spring of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, they clearly don't have the same level
Speaker 1: of juice that they had the previous season. I think
Speaker 1: that was when Andrew was dealing with all of his
Speaker 1: drama too, if I'm not mistaken, So like it was
Speaker 1: right in that window in time where there was a
Speaker 1: long enough window of time after the trade for a
Speaker 1: team to evaluate Kamingo without having to pay him, whereas
Speaker 1: now it's a complete the different equation when you're talking
Speaker 1: about bringing him in with all that money, and it's
Speaker 1: like and it's not even like a hindsight thing. I
Speaker 1: remember most of you. There is a segment of Warriors
Speaker 1: fans that is extremely high on Kuminga. But most of
Speaker 1: the smart Warriors fans that I talk to and the
Speaker 1: people who cover the team are in your camp, which
Speaker 1: is talented young player. There's no reason at all why
Speaker 1: he shouldn't be able to go somewhere and make good
Speaker 1: money and make mistakes. But it's just not the reality.
Speaker 1: This is the situation that they're in. And I do
Speaker 1: think there's a certain amount of arrogance organizationally that they
Speaker 1: thought they could fix John and I think that's where
Speaker 1: most of it went south, or.
Speaker 2: Just like do what's never been able to be done,
Speaker 2: you know, which is the fusing of like two timelines
Speaker 2: where players are vastly different stages of their career is
Speaker 2: the issue. It's not inserting young players into a team.
Speaker 2: All good teams have to find a way to get
Speaker 2: production out of younger legs. Pretty Much every time team
Speaker 2: you could find has some young player who plays some
Speaker 2: form of a role, and even if it's just an
Speaker 2: energy role, even if it's like what like Christian Brown
Speaker 2: was for Denver, where you know it's necessary. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: just need a guy who's got more energy and can
Speaker 2: do things like that. They were dealing with players who
Speaker 2: just radically looked at the game differently, so the fit
Speaker 2: was just never there. And you're right, arrogance. Arrogance was
Speaker 2: the single driving force behind it. It's flying too close
Speaker 2: to the sun thinking you can do it all, you know,
Speaker 2: It's just reality has a way of humbling everyone.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, So if you had to choose between retaining
Speaker 1: coming on a team friendly number, let's call it a
Speaker 1: one year. You mentioned this before we went on the air, Like,
Speaker 1: what if he signs like a one year, twenty million
Speaker 1: dollar deal to re enter free agency? Would you rather
Speaker 1: have something like that or one of these sign and
Speaker 1: trade packages from a Phoenix or a Sacramento.
Speaker 2: Based on the quoted sign in trade packages, those are
Speaker 2: really hard to swallow, although I do I am increasingly
Speaker 2: becoming a Devin Carter fan. I will i will say
Speaker 2: he does check boxes of the type of player that
Speaker 2: keep trying to trade for, but he's also young, so
Speaker 2: who knows he'll be able to do it. Uh. I
Speaker 2: think I'm still gonna lean on the sign in trade
Speaker 2: and just put faith in the fact that they can
Speaker 2: get a little more than what we've heard quoted. I
Speaker 2: just think this is too far gone. I think him
Speaker 2: coming back on a short term deal and let's assume
Speaker 2: it's two years, his incentives are gonna be about playing
Speaker 2: for himself as opposed to what the team needs. Like,
Speaker 2: I just don't see how it gets better. And then
Speaker 2: you throw into it like he's human. This is not
Speaker 2: There's no way he feels good about this. He's gonna
Speaker 2: say all the right things, but there's no way he's
Speaker 2: feeling good about this. To me, it's like you you
Speaker 2: kind of have to just cut bait and hope that
Speaker 2: what she gets the best he can get, and like,
Speaker 2: hopefully you can get a first round pick out of someone.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's possible, but if you could,
Speaker 2: then at least you have that to play with in
Speaker 2: an ancillary move, and maybe the player you end up
Speaker 2: getting for Kuminga is not the direct one for one,
Speaker 2: but it's like you get something from someone, you combined
Speaker 2: it with something you have, you move it in another direction,
Speaker 2: and you bring a player who fits what you want
Speaker 2: to do. More So, I just I think it's too
Speaker 2: far gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, if they brought him back, it's in
Speaker 1: the same sort of situation where you go into this
Speaker 1: last season where Kamingo was basically a matchup specific rotation piece,
Speaker 1: Like he was essentially out of your rotation for major
Speaker 1: games in major situations last year. And so if you
Speaker 1: look at it from Jonathan's perspective, even signing like a
Speaker 1: one year deal at twenty million, let's just call it
Speaker 1: that he's sitting there thinking the reason why I'm in
Speaker 1: this predicament is I effectively have not shown enough to
Speaker 1: the league to dictate that I'm worth what I'm asking for.
Speaker 1: So therefore, in this upcoming season, I need to show more.
Speaker 1: And what would he have seen in this situation to
Speaker 1: believe that coming back would give him the runway? He
Speaker 1: would need to show that. And so I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think I think we've been since, for lack of
Speaker 1: a better way of putting it, since that January twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four kind of inflection point. This has been destined
Speaker 1: for this sort of separation and it just hasn't happened yet. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you mentioned Devin Carter? Is there do you think there's
Speaker 1: is there like a dream player that you wish you
Speaker 1: could squeeze out of one of those two teams in
Speaker 1: assign and trade.
Speaker 2: I mean, my dreams keep getting smaller the longer this
Speaker 2: goes on. You asked me about the Kings two months ago,
Speaker 2: I'm like, ooh, Keegan Murray, that'd be nice. Now it's
Speaker 2: now it's a much smaller ask. I mean, Kean Ellis
Speaker 2: would be nice, like the Warriors. Okay, so if we
Speaker 2: take a step backwards, Steph, Jimmy and Draymond. They're closing
Speaker 2: in every game, right, that's your or like when the
Speaker 2: chips are on the table and you're in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: you're planning on those three players being the best they
Speaker 2: can be in those moments. So what do you want
Speaker 2: around them? You want defensive versatility with as much shooting
Speaker 2: as you can get. Right, So, I know this has
Speaker 2: been kind of a trendy thing, but like the thunder
Speaker 2: or a great example of this, and the Warriors have
Speaker 2: tried to trade for these type of players like Derek
Speaker 2: White probably being the best in the league. Kind of
Speaker 2: a point of attack defensive guard, but they also have
Speaker 2: the ability to hit an open shot, make extra pass.
Speaker 2: Basically just a guard who could defend, who's got length,
Speaker 2: the kind of the Drew Holiday archetype. Kean Ellison Sacramento
Speaker 2: is one of the better ones that most people don't
Speaker 2: know about because he's on a team. Like he's the
Speaker 2: type of guy who you put him on a good
Speaker 2: team and everyone's talking about him the way they talk
Speaker 2: about Caruso. He's not as good, But the same time,
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, that guy makes so many winning plays.
Speaker 2: Wow he took he really took Shae you know, out
Speaker 2: of his offense and made everything uncomfortable for him. Oh
Speaker 2: he's stuck three open threes like that sort of thing. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: I think guys like that are harder to find. Uh,
Speaker 2: then we give it credit for because people always like, well,
Speaker 2: you could just find a role player anyway, Well, clearly
Speaker 2: you can't, because there are all these teams who have
Speaker 2: like championship foundation players and they can never seem to
Speaker 2: find the right role players to go around them. Right,
Speaker 2: So so that's that's one I'd be interested in on Phoenix.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, there'sn't really anything because it's like
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I want Devine, I want to take
Speaker 2: uh you know. I he is objectively a winning player
Speaker 2: who will help teams, and I think Houston's going to
Speaker 2: miss him more than they realize. I agree. But it's like,
Speaker 2: if there's one thing a team that Draymond and Jimmy
Speaker 2: does not need, it's another guy who's doing like the
Speaker 2: same things they do, you know.
Speaker 1: So that's a good point.
Speaker 2: I guess. I guess I would in terms of the asset,
Speaker 2: but it's like, yeah, no, they need, they need, they
Speaker 2: need a different type player. So yeah, I think to
Speaker 2: anyone who I can, I can confidently say, oh, this
Speaker 2: guy's getting twenty five minutes every night I consider to win,
Speaker 2: and ideally I'd like them to be under twenty seven
Speaker 2: because this team needs. This team needs guys with young legs.
Speaker 2: There's need guys who are gonna bring the energy to
Speaker 2: those January games where Steph kind of wants to hang
Speaker 2: out off ball for seventy percent of the game because
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to do a lot of work later
Speaker 2: in the season. And Jimmy just kind of wants to
Speaker 2: play a facilitator mode because of the same thing. So
Speaker 2: the more young legs that fit what they want to do,
Speaker 2: the better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. Same thing. In the mailback question this morning,
Speaker 1: I had a question that was like, do you think
Speaker 1: teams are markedly changing the way that they're going about
Speaker 1: their business this offseason because of the success of Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and Indiana? And it doesn't actually feel like there have
Speaker 1: been that many, you know, versatile perimeter athletes that have
Speaker 1: been moving around. And one of the things I talk
Speaker 1: about was like, there's just not that many of them,
Speaker 1: Like we everyone wants the guy that can dribble, shoot, pass,
Speaker 1: and defend and do it like with some size, and
Speaker 1: it's just extremely difficult to find to find in the
Speaker 1: modern NBA. And that's why if you could get a
Speaker 1: guy like Keon, he's just the way you were talking
Speaker 1: about with the winning plays. I feel like those kinds
Speaker 1: of guys are always amplified alongside superstars, superstars that actually
Speaker 1: set teams up with advantages and things along those lines.
Speaker 1: I think that, uh, I think that in general that
Speaker 1: that shooting piece is a big one. I look at
Speaker 1: Moses Moody. Essentially Moses was bigger than Keon, but having
Speaker 1: a player that could basically do what Moses Moody did,
Speaker 1: but not go through the extended shooting roles that Moses
Speaker 1: dealt with last year. Like the way his shot just
Speaker 1: completely fell apart in the postseason was a big, a big,
Speaker 1: you know shot at this particular Warriors team. I would argue,
Speaker 1: and this is the next thing I want to kind
Speaker 1: of get into, because I do want to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about Horford too, because I'm like really excited
Speaker 1: about him. For you guys, I want to get into
Speaker 1: that in a minute.
Speaker 2: He was to play for Steve Kerr. He's like, my god,
Speaker 2: he's like one of five players in the NBA who's
Speaker 2: never been on the Warriors, who if I just look
Speaker 2: at them once, I'm like, oh, that's the worst player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just do this real quick. Actually, because like
Speaker 1: I am, I think Al Horford is good. Like like again,
Speaker 1: it's rumored that the deal is done. We'll see if
Speaker 1: it ends up happening. Obviously, he's old. Obviously there's gonna
Speaker 1: be you know, thirty games or so this season where
Speaker 1: he's out of the lineup, and I think you guys
Speaker 1: would be smart to kind of hold him in reserve
Speaker 1: like that, But I cannot imagine a more natural fit
Speaker 1: as if big Look for you guys in Al Horford,
Speaker 1: are you as stoked asign it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It's like, Oh, you're gonna run a bunch of
Speaker 2: dho's with Steph Curry and you're gonna have to make
Speaker 2: decisions based off of the way players are. The defense
Speaker 2: reacts off him like he's tailor made for that. He's
Speaker 2: he's couldn't to your point, could not be a more
Speaker 2: natural fit. The thing I like about him also is
Speaker 2: they miss that whenever Draymond's off the floor, you know,
Speaker 2: Quentin post underrated skill as a passers, a rookie, you know,
Speaker 2: like that sort of thing, right, and they've gone through
Speaker 2: they've had issues finding guys who can do it. I
Speaker 2: think one of the biggest things Al would bring to
Speaker 2: the Warriors is it's not playing Draymond and Horford together.
Speaker 2: It's having forty eight minutes of one of them on
Speaker 2: the floor at all times dictating things, and it's actually
Speaker 2: a way to keep them both fresher. What if they're
Speaker 2: both playing twenty four minutes a game. We know Draymond
Speaker 2: can still play at a high level. We saw in
Speaker 2: the Minnesota series he got worn down. Why do you
Speaker 2: get worn down? He has to play five the whole
Speaker 2: time with an undermanned team. Like he's one of the
Speaker 2: most energetic players I've ever seen. He is still human,
Speaker 2: you know, Like, so even there are there are you know,
Speaker 2: limits to how much he can expend physically. And it
Speaker 2: goes to my overarching point, which is they don't just
Speaker 2: need to get younger, they just need to get deer.
Speaker 2: Like one of the best ways to keep the old
Speaker 2: core healthy is have a ten man rotation. Make it
Speaker 2: so that like I said, Draymond's playing twenty four minutes
Speaker 2: a game, Horford's playing twenty four minutes a game. STEP's
Speaker 2: playing thirty not thirty six minutes. You know, you're gonna
Speaker 2: have games you chase. You can't be you can't be
Speaker 2: in a situation where you have to chase the final
Speaker 2: thirty five games of the year because you had no
Speaker 2: depth in your twenty five and twenty five, you know,
Speaker 2: fifty games in the season, which was the case with
Speaker 2: the Warriors this year when they got Jimmy Butler. They're
Speaker 2: actually one game below five hundred. They were twenty five
Speaker 2: and twenty six, they had to go balls to the
Speaker 2: wall just to qualify for the playoffs, and it's it
Speaker 2: should be no surprise that Draymond looked dead at the end.
Speaker 2: Steph pulled a hammy, which was an exhaustion injury from
Speaker 2: what he had to do, and you know, Jimmy's was
Speaker 2: just an unlucky contact thing. But like all of that's
Speaker 2: a subject. All that's a factor of them playing what
Speaker 2: was essentially a seven or eight man rotation for the
Speaker 2: final two months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Horford is everything you guys have been
Speaker 1: looking for over the last several seasons as a big,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, like a big that you can continue
Speaker 1: to run essentially the same style of read and react
Speaker 1: offense that you run when Draymond's on the floor, but
Speaker 1: that also gives you a bigger look when you want to.
Speaker 1: I'm excited specifically about like some matchup specific situations where Horford, Draymond,
Speaker 1: and Jimmy are all on the floor together to close
Speaker 1: games just because of their collective defensive IQ. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of switchability there al. Horford still even as an
Speaker 1: old guy, is one of the better switching bigs that
Speaker 1: you'll have in the league, just because he's so good
Speaker 1: at anticipating and taking the right angle to meet guys
Speaker 1: at spots, and so there's a lot of like it's
Speaker 1: a lot of like the upside that you had with
Speaker 1: Quinton Post, but without some of the defensive limitations that
Speaker 1: came from him. Just in terms of like Quinton was
Speaker 1: like a straight up old fashioned drop big and he
Speaker 1: just didn't have much in the way of athleticism around
Speaker 1: the rim. Al doesn't bring the athleticism, but he brings
Speaker 1: the IQ and the switch ability, which gives you some
Speaker 1: viability there. You mentioned the depth. This is the key thing.
Speaker 1: Because I was talking about this with the Clippers. Everyone's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: the Clippers are so old. It doesn't matter when you
Speaker 1: have that many guys. Like, when you have that many
Speaker 1: dudes who can play, you can keep everybody's minutes at
Speaker 1: a point where it's manageable. And that's like I would
Speaker 1: argue that it's it actually has more to do with
Speaker 1: the amount of wear and tear you're putting on your
Speaker 1: players each game than the number of games they play,
Speaker 1: or even sometimes the schedule, like a back to back
Speaker 1: is nothing. If they're playing twenty minutes each night, and
Speaker 1: it's not you know, if you could, if you could
Speaker 1: play al twenty four minutes in one of the games
Speaker 1: and eighteen in another, it's not a rough back to back.
Speaker 1: It's a rough back to back when you're in the
Speaker 1: tail end of the season and you got to push
Speaker 1: everybody thirty six thirty seven minutes because you're desperate for
Speaker 1: a gamer here or there in the standings and in general.
Speaker 1: This is kind of how I feel about spending assets
Speaker 1: to try to improve this team. In the Western Conference,
Speaker 1: three or four wins could be the difference between the
Speaker 1: four we're seed in a play in birth. A specific
Speaker 1: player could be the difference between you losing to Denver
Speaker 1: and you beating Denver. I mean, Cam Johnson for Denver
Speaker 1: could be the difference between them losing to Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: and beating Oklahoma City. These are pretty tight margins between
Speaker 1: these teams, and that's why I've been kind of like
Speaker 1: geared up on some sort of upgrade here. So I'm
Speaker 1: astoked about Horford as you are. We don't need to
Speaker 1: talk about Melton too much because I think we saw
Speaker 1: him last year's natural fit. It's just a question of
Speaker 1: whether or not his knee can hold up. But what
Speaker 1: archetype of player if you like. Obviously we talked about
Speaker 1: keyon Ellis, he's a three and D guy. I think
Speaker 1: every team could benefit from one of those. But if
Speaker 1: there was a higher level player that you could target
Speaker 1: at some point this season, what do you view as
Speaker 1: the specific need, the specific archetype of player that the
Speaker 1: Warriors need to go into that top tier of contenders
Speaker 1: with the teams at the top of the West.
Speaker 2: I think it's ke else no, But beyond him, uh No,
Speaker 2: I think it's they need so Melton is another player
Speaker 2: who is a great point of attack defender, can hit shots,
Speaker 2: can handle create a little bit. I still think they
Speaker 2: need one more of those. And then I actually really
Speaker 2: love a guard rotation of Steph Pajemski with less responsibility
Speaker 2: in that in that potential role, because now you've added
Speaker 2: Melton who will likely play less minutes off of a
Speaker 2: knee injury, and another guy in that rotation spot there.
Speaker 2: The other one is the obvious one, which is a
Speaker 2: front court player, and they don't need to be a center.
Speaker 2: But I'm looking at someone six eight to six' ten
Speaker 2: who can hit some open. Shots the Way i'm looking
Speaker 2: at it is if you Get, horford you Have Draymon
Speaker 2: horford And Quinton post And Trey Jackson. Davis, Now Quinton
Speaker 2: post And Trey Jackson davis are fine for backups in
Speaker 2: the regular. Season What i'd really like is one more
Speaker 2: GUY i can put next To horford and Bring draymond
Speaker 2: off the bench, potentially or SOMEONE i could play next
Speaker 2: To draymond if they want to go a little more
Speaker 2: small and. Switchy, honestly it's what they were Hoping kuminga could,
Speaker 2: be but it just hasn't happened for whatever. Reason there's
Speaker 2: blame to go around for all parties, There so that
Speaker 2: would be the Type i'd be looking, at and the
Speaker 2: PLAYER i would be looking at to help get. It
Speaker 2: there Is Moses moody and whatever they get in return For,
Speaker 2: kuminga which is why SNEAKILY i could see the team
Speaker 2: bringing him back just so that they could trade him
Speaker 2: In january for salary, purposes no matter how awkward the
Speaker 2: whole thing would, be no matter how much lying we're
Speaker 2: going to hear during training camp about how happy they
Speaker 2: are with each.
Speaker 1: Other in, theory he could potentially have more options to
Speaker 1: choose from in terms of versions at that, point just
Speaker 1: because the landscape of the league ships and you had
Speaker 1: a team a different match a different type of salary
Speaker 1: matching type of.
Speaker 2: Situation it's been like reported multiple times that the you,
Speaker 2: know three, years maybe a player opt out after the second,
Speaker 2: year so it's a short term, deal but it's you,
Speaker 2: know it's not a one year, deal right in the
Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five. RANGE i can actually see that
Speaker 2: being a very attractive trade chip at the deadline because
Speaker 2: you'd be acquiring a twenty two year old who's on
Speaker 2: a very reasonable, number who you control for a couple
Speaker 2: of years where you can really figure, out is this
Speaker 2: one of my like core three pieces going? Forward you,
Speaker 2: know because he is so young he is he is
Speaker 2: still just twenty two this. Year he's gonna be twenty
Speaker 2: three this this help coming. Season, SORRY i could see
Speaker 2: something like that. HAPPENING i JUST i don't want to
Speaker 2: go down that path because it just it feels like
Speaker 2: one of those things where there's a lot of risk
Speaker 2: of it blowing up and being an even bigger hindrance
Speaker 2: the other. Way by the, way with that, said, yeah
Speaker 2: like the obvious one is get me an athletic wing
Speaker 2: who can play next To draymond Or horford in the four,
Speaker 2: spot who can hit, shots who can. Defend that would
Speaker 2: be the type of PLAYER i would be most interested.
Speaker 1: In, yeah you, KNOW i was talking about this with
Speaker 1: the id A suns fan straight up asking mail by
Speaker 1: question like should we Get? Kaminga and like WHAT i
Speaker 1: said was like if you can get him at twenty
Speaker 1: to twenty five a, Year hell, Yeah LIKE i do
Speaker 1: think That kaminga has value at a number that is
Speaker 1: below thirty and where he has a. Runway it's specifically
Speaker 1: the combination of what he's asking for and what The
Speaker 1: warriors need from him that makes that situation. Untenable if
Speaker 1: you could be flexible in that, regard it makes some.
Speaker 1: Sense and similarly to The, Warriors like to your, point
Speaker 1: if he's on let's say he's at two years fifty,
Speaker 1: million he's still a tradable asset at that. Point if
Speaker 1: he's at two years sixty five, million that's where it's
Speaker 1: like or a longer term, deal it's.
Speaker 2: Like something like. That then you're attaching a pick to
Speaker 2: get off of. Him, yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1: Exactly do you think The warriors have enough? Offense this
Speaker 1: has been something That i've been keyed in on for
Speaker 1: a little. While, uh even after The jimmy. Trade just
Speaker 1: like there's this pretty clear life to where like where
Speaker 1: When Brandon pajemski shoots the ball really, well When Buddy
Speaker 1: heel plays super, well you guys are borderline. Unbeatable do
Speaker 1: you have any do you have a desire to upgrade
Speaker 1: in terms of offensive talent just a realistic approach to what's,
Speaker 1: available or do you actually think The warriors don't need.
Speaker 1: That they need more athleticism and versatility and role players.
Speaker 2: Well, being as they only have nine players under, roster
Speaker 2: they need. Everything BUT i guess because we've debated this
Speaker 2: heavily on our, show and there's been a strong push
Speaker 2: to just add eighty two game. Players you, know a bucket,
Speaker 2: getter who's going to just lighten the load On Steph
Speaker 2: curry in the regular, season and how much it can
Speaker 2: help this team just have a little more offensive, firepower
Speaker 2: even if it's flawed offensive, firepower, RIGHT i, agree that
Speaker 2: would be, Useful but if it's one or the, Other
Speaker 2: i'm still going to lean into trying to get those
Speaker 2: defensive first closing playoff players because the WAY i look
Speaker 2: at it, is end of the, day if this team
Speaker 2: makes the, playoffs it's gonna be Basically steph carry us
Speaker 2: on offense and we're gonna. Defend AND i just don't
Speaker 2: see a world in which them adding an offensive player
Speaker 2: who's a bad defender actually makes them a better playoff.
Speaker 2: TEAM i think it leads them to being more in
Speaker 2: the middle than. Anything SO i know that's kind of
Speaker 2: a cop out, answer but it's kind of like what
Speaker 2: you saw with The. Thunder as far As i'm concerned
Speaker 2: The thunder's offense at, TIME i was, like, man they
Speaker 2: got nothing other Than, shay you, know that sort of.
Speaker 2: Thing But i'd rather put a team of guys who
Speaker 2: can grind and will defend to like they just they're
Speaker 2: hard to score, on and you Trust steph And jimmy
Speaker 2: will eventually figure it out on. Offense then try to
Speaker 2: go the other way and add A Malik monk type, where,
Speaker 2: man you, know you know what it's like watching a
Speaker 2: team In january when those guys are, Exhausting, like, man
Speaker 2: it'd be really nice to have some Like Malik monk
Speaker 2: coming off the bench with a little juice just to
Speaker 2: provide a little. Punch but if it comes at the
Speaker 2: expense of like that, point of attack defender or that versatile.
Speaker 2: WING i don't think it's worth. It so that's kind
Speaker 2: of Where i'm at with. It would it's a nice to.
Speaker 2: HAVE i view it still as a number two priority
Speaker 2: in terms of need to.
Speaker 1: Have, YEAH i LEAN i lean slightly more towards it
Speaker 1: being something that they need in order to get into
Speaker 1: that next. TIER i think part of it is my
Speaker 1: overarching basketball, Philosophy like even With buddy Heel LIKE i
Speaker 1: Thought Buddy hehil played the best defense of his career last,
Speaker 1: season even though it was, flawed even though it wasn't,
Speaker 1: perfect there were moments Where buddy was really competing and
Speaker 1: doing some good work on that end of the. FLOOR
Speaker 1: i like to. SAY i also just have generally looked
Speaker 1: at The warriors offense as kind of a counterbalancing effect
Speaker 1: where The steph And clay did this for years to
Speaker 1: teams where it was it was the mutual impact of
Speaker 1: both of them and what they brought on opposite ends
Speaker 1: of the floor running in and out of action that
Speaker 1: made them so difficult to. Guard AND i look at
Speaker 1: teams Like denver who scaled up on, defense using intelligence
Speaker 1: and switching up coverages and having just kind of HIGH iq,
Speaker 1: defenders not necessarily the most athletic, defenders and them doing
Speaker 1: as good a job Against Oklahoma city as anybody else
Speaker 1: did in last year's playoff run despite being one of
Speaker 1: the worst defenses in the league down the stretch of the.
Speaker 1: Season i'm indexing slowly each progressive season more towards, offense
Speaker 1: And i'm, Wondering i'm wondering how much of that will
Speaker 1: stick for me in the coming, Years but, YEAH i.
Speaker 1: DO i would love to see a guy next To
Speaker 1: steph who could reliably get to twenty points on any given. Night,
Speaker 1: now Maybe Jimmy in, theory it's and that's the thing,
Speaker 1: is Like i'm hoping to get just a little bit
Speaker 1: more offensive juice out Of jimmy this year. TOO i
Speaker 1: think that could go a long way as.
Speaker 2: Well so that's kind of Why i'm, like adding those
Speaker 2: two players who can, shoot like you, know the pie
Speaker 2: in the sky would be like a you, Know Derek
Speaker 2: white the shooting guard spot and Like Cam johnson at
Speaker 2: the power forward. Spot like obviously neither of those are
Speaker 2: gonna Happen camp specifically because he just went To, denver but,
Speaker 2: like you, know adding those those players who can shoot the.
Speaker 2: BALL i think will also Juice jimmy's offense a little.
Speaker 2: Bit he scored the ball incredibly well up until he
Speaker 2: had the glute injury that happened Against. HOUSTON i mean
Speaker 2: he put what thirty seven in the playing game had
Speaker 2: something like HE i think he. WORKS i think him
Speaker 2: And steph. WORK i think they honestly need more shooting
Speaker 2: and defensive versatility than necessarily shot.
Speaker 1: CREATION i think the shooting is the obvious, one regardless
Speaker 1: of whether or not it comes in the form of
Speaker 1: a high level offensive player or a three AND d.
Speaker 1: Player they've got to have reliable shootings surround those. GUYS
Speaker 1: i think that goes without saying, that for the, record
Speaker 1: is Why i'm excited About. Horford, like if you imagine
Speaker 1: a scenario where let's say you get a key On
Speaker 1: ellis and you get An Al, horford that would be
Speaker 1: such an interesting look to have that type of group
Speaker 1: out on the floor where legitimately the guys who are
Speaker 1: gonna be flowing in and out of action and popping
Speaker 1: are gonna be guys who are gonna be knocking down.
Speaker 1: Shots which is that like key? Difference All, Right i'm
Speaker 1: gonna put you on the spot before we get out of,
Speaker 1: here let's say The, Warriors let's just say they Retain
Speaker 1: kaminga on a one, year twenty million dollars, deal or
Speaker 1: they sign and trade him for just, filler Not Keon,
Speaker 1: ellis but just, filler and they Sign horford and they
Speaker 1: signed The Anthony, melton handful of other veteran minimum, contracts
Speaker 1: but nothing like super needle. Moving let's say they bring
Speaker 1: Back Gary payton something something along those. Lines where would
Speaker 1: you rank them in The west without any additional moves
Speaker 1: over the top of that.
Speaker 2: Six mostly because in your car, CONSTRUCTED i think they're
Speaker 2: gonna put too much On steph And jimmy's shoulders and
Speaker 2: there's just gonna be like they're gonna be better than
Speaker 2: the sixth. SEED i think that's just where they're gonna,
Speaker 2: end Because jimmy will miss twenty, Games steph will miss twenty,
Speaker 2: games and there'll be one of those teams, where oh
Speaker 2: they're you, know if you look at, this they're actually
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and five over the last twenty, five but
Speaker 2: the overall record is forty seven. Wins that type of,
Speaker 2: Thing and to your, POINT i honestly think it's one
Speaker 2: of those things where if they Turn kuminga into the
Speaker 2: right type of energy piece and make maybe get a
Speaker 2: little internal, improvement plus A melton and A, horford they
Speaker 2: might win fifty three games and be the second or third.
Speaker 2: Seed you, Know LIKE i actually really think the margins
Speaker 2: on that basis really do matter that much in determining
Speaker 2: where they end up. Finishing and as you as you
Speaker 2: said earlier and as we've, seen like The west has
Speaker 2: been so tight the last five, years it's, like literally
Speaker 2: but the dinner between forty five and fifty wins is
Speaker 2: an ears between like the eight and the three seed
Speaker 2: most of these.
Speaker 1: Years, Playing, yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly a lot of it's down a lot of it's
Speaker 2: down to health and your ability to to just have
Speaker 2: a deep roster all.
Speaker 1: Year, YEAH i look at that, tier and you can
Speaker 1: make cases for and against all of. Them LIKE i,
Speaker 1: mean you could Say minnesota lost and Kill Alexander walker
Speaker 1: and they're a little bit older in their front, court
Speaker 1: And conley's, older and Go bear's, older and you know
Speaker 1: they're just not going to be as. Good but then
Speaker 1: you could also look at me and go, like, yeah
Speaker 1: but what If Anthony edwards like watched Shake yell Just
Speaker 1: alexander kick his ass and spends all summer working on
Speaker 1: stuff that's short to short to mid range scoring and
Speaker 1: becomes a dramatically better player and The wolves are, Better Right,
Speaker 1: Lakers what happens with so many different guys they have
Speaker 1: that are older Age? Clippers what happens with so many
Speaker 1: guys that are older age The? Warriors do they successfully
Speaker 1: Turn kaminga and a couple of their other assets into more?
Speaker 1: Firepower there's all of this, different you, know up and
Speaker 1: down potential for every single one of these. Teams that's
Speaker 1: why it's tough to put them in a, list and
Speaker 1: it's easier just to put them in. Tears But, sam
Speaker 1: this has been. AMAZING i sincerely appreciate you taking time
Speaker 1: out of your busy day to come hang out with
Speaker 1: us and talk Some. Warriors why don't you tell everybody
Speaker 1: where they can find your?
Speaker 2: Stuff, yeah pretty. Simple just check out the Light years
Speaker 2: pod wherever you listen to, Pods, Apple, spotify, YouTube doesn't,
Speaker 2: matter it'll be published. There we go pretty. Regularly we
Speaker 2: live after every game in the off, season two to
Speaker 2: three times a, week and whenever the kuminga thing, HAPPENS
Speaker 2: i promise a breaking.
Speaker 1: Pod The sam And andy And tommy as well do
Speaker 1: amazing work With Light. Years make sure you guys go
Speaker 1: over there and support. Them that's all we have for, today,
Speaker 1: guys is. Always we sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
Speaker 1: us on supporting the. Show we'll be back with our
Speaker 1: mailbag On. FRIDAY i will see you guys then