1
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio with

2
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,880
Speaker 1: Scott and Michael Barr. Each week we speak to some

3
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: of the biggest names in the world of money in sports,

4
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,720
Speaker 1: and today is no different. Michael, Oh, Scott, we are

5
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: pleased to welcome Steve Ballmer. He was the CEO of

6
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 1: Microsoft from two thousand to after retiring from the company

7
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 1: in February. Three months later, he plays the record two

8
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: billion dollar offer to buy the l A Clippers. Steve,

9
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining us. My pleasure. Thanks

10
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,000
Speaker 1: for having me. All right. I want to get you

11
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 1: back on the golf course. I know you're ready to

12
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,120
Speaker 1: play some golf today, but I want to go back

13
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: to when you were preparing this bid for the Clippers,

14
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,880
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna tell you how I felt as sort

15
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: of a reporter in the middle of it all. For

16
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: with all the big groups. It reminded me of barbarians

17
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: at the Gate. Did you at all get a feeling

18
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: like sort of this big bidding process, everybody wanted to

19
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 1: know what everybody else was into. Did you get that

20
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: feeling as well? I did. I don't know about barbarians

21
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,160
Speaker 1: at the Gate, but you know, it wasn't quite sure

22
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 1: nobody's quite sure who the other bidders are. Um, therefore

23
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: not quite sure, you can't be sure and quite sure

24
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,559
Speaker 1: what goose should be. Um, you know, it's a little

25
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,560
Speaker 1: bit of a complicated process. Uh. And you know you

26
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,000
Speaker 1: also you know, I had my own view with the

27
00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,039
Speaker 1: with the team was worth to me. But of course

28
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,960
Speaker 1: there's sort of two other inputs. Number one, what does

29
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 1: the numbers say? In number two, what does the market

30
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,880
Speaker 1: was the market looked like? And it's so hard to

31
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 1: know because you're not absolutely sure what you know, what

32
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: kind of price signal. It's not like going to stock

33
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 1: market bidden on stock and you know what other people

34
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 1: have been. Um. So yeah, it had a little barbarians

35
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 1: at the gate to it, I guess in terms of

36
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 1: the auction process. But there's also that bit of that

37
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 1: part of the bid that comes from love, of the

38
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 1: fact that you just wanted to do it, regardless of

39
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 1: what the paper value says. What was your love markup

40
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: on the franchise? How high were you willing to go? Well,

41
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's probably not an important question to answer. Uh,

42
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: I was to go probably you would say about five

43
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: percent more than the next better. Well, that was enough Yeah, yeah,

44
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: I think we're I think I wind up. I don't know,

45
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: between five and tem percent. Probably they stand above the

46
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 1: number two bits now for people the stocking horse to

47
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 1: go higher than that. But you know, I think it

48
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: was kind of in the game, if you will. Now

49
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,799
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, the team came about because

50
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 1: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver forced Donald Sterling at the time

51
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 1: to sell the team. Yes, it was an uncomfortable situation

52
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: when the opportunity comes up, but it was a rare opportunities.

53
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 1: They're only a handful of these NBA teams out there,

54
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 1: so when you got a chance, you have to take it. Yeah. No,

55
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,160
Speaker 1: that's that's really right. Uh. I mean take a look

56
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 1: at it. I think over the last six or seven years,

57
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: maybe uh four or five teams have traded, you know,

58
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: have traded. Milwaukee traded, Atlanta traded, Clippers traded. Uh probably

59
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,239
Speaker 1: Memphis is in that time for periods. But other than that,

60
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard to find these things turning left

61
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 1: and light, and two of those turned because of sort

62
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: of tumult around ownership and front office. If it was

63
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 1: a stock, if the Clippers were as stock, Stephen, you

64
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,640
Speaker 1: were an analyst, What would your rating be on the

65
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:20,520
Speaker 1: team right now, on our actual basketball team. Oh, you know,

66
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: it's a it's a bye. You know, we have what

67
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 1: the third best record, I think over the last five

68
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 1: years in the NBA. We've got a great core guys.

69
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,399
Speaker 1: Um you know, it's a free agency, so I guess

70
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: you would say it's a bye with some risks with

71
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 1: Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and J. J. Reddickal free

72
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 1: agents this offseason. But you know, we have a great organization,

73
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: great coach, great general manager and Lawrence frank um and

74
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: and I feel good about, you know, the fact that

75
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: we're going to resign our guys. Were you happy with

76
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: the collective bargaining agreement? I know you're happy it got done.

77
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 1: Were you happy with the specifics, particularly in terms of

78
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: player salaries. Yeah, I mean the specifics, I think we're

79
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 1: we're fine. The labor committee of the board liked it,

80
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: the players selected, the league liked that, the owners voted

81
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: for it. You know, I think it was a win

82
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: win all around. You mentioned Blake Griffin, and your fingers

83
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 1: are crossed to resign them. What do you think the

84
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: odds are that you'll get them back for next season. Well,

85
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, you never know till you know. Uh, we're

86
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 1: We're in the game. We're serious. You know, Bike's built

87
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 1: his career with the Clippers, and uh so I think

88
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: our probably voice is good and a chance to get

89
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,480
Speaker 1: Cormarlo Anthony there. We just never could tell around this

90
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: league about about anything, uh that's possible or not. You know,

91
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 1: we're focused right now and resigning our own guys though,

92
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,799
Speaker 1: that's our top priority. Now. You're one of the three

93
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 1: teams that share the Staples Center, the Clippers, of course,

94
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 1: the Lakers and the Kings are all playing at the

95
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 1: Staples Center, and I was thinking, was it time to

96
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: think about maybe building another arena for the Clippers or

97
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 1: is that even in practical Well, I think I think

98
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 1: that said publicly that we're looking doesn't mean we're gonna move,

99
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,440
Speaker 1: but we're absolutely looking into what we can find for

100
00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 1: for land and opportunity see kind of how Staples is

101
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,359
Speaker 1: going to evolve. We need to hear hear about that,

102
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,800
Speaker 1: if you will, from our current landlord. Uh and uh,

103
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, in the meantime, we're developing an options. Who

104
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't develop an option? If you know, I think if

105
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: you go in to see a landlord without an option,

106
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 1: no matter what happens, you're not in good shape. And frankly,

107
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 1: I think if you build an arena just for basketball,

108
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: you build an arena that looked different than Staples and

109
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,039
Speaker 1: you know, might provide more energy and excitement around the

110
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: basketball experience. Well, one team that is definitely getting a

111
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 1: new arena of the Golden State Warriors. We had Joe

112
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,279
Speaker 1: Lacob on the show. I want you to listen to

113
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: what he had to say about competing in the business

114
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 1: of pro sports. Look, do I think we're better? Yeah?

115
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: I do. I think I'm really proud of our organization,

116
00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 1: and I think we're really well run. The numbers bear

117
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,479
Speaker 1: it out, the championship at five years bears it out,

118
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: and that. But I'm not selling I was really trying

119
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 1: to put everybody down. I didn't mean it that way,

120
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 1: he said. He took heat for that comment to The

121
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: New York Times. How do you view another owner saying yeah,

122
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,360
Speaker 1: we think we're better and we're light years ahead of

123
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 1: everybody else. That that, in essence is what he said. Well, Look,

124
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 1: this is business, this is competition. Of Course you want

125
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 1: to be better, and of course you want to take

126
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 1: the position whether you're whether you're better or not, it

127
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 1: isn't bad to tell the other guys you're better. Part

128
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: of the way, you know, you breed a sense of

129
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 1: excellence as you talk about a sense of excellence. And

130
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,320
Speaker 1: we've made progress, and clearly they've made progress over the

131
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: time that Joan is in his crew of own the place. Uh,

132
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,840
Speaker 1: you know that happens now and do what other owners

133
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: all love it? Probably not who loves who loves to

134
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: hear that somebody else is better than them. On the

135
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 1: other hand, you know competitors, you know what they do.

136
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 1: They take the challenge and Joe threw out the gauntlet

137
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: to the rest of the league too to take them on.

138
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 1: And you know they obviously have a great basketball team. Um,

139
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 1: but the rest of us there there are a lot

140
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 1: of good organizations out there, and certainly you Clippers are

141
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: one of them. Steve, question for you on the least

142
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,040
Speaker 1: at Staples Center, what's good about it? Because you are

143
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: literally the third team. You're not just a team in

144
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: Staples Center, you are literally, as written into the contract,

145
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 1: the third team. What is the worst part of the lease?

146
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 1: And what do you say you like about it? What

147
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: do I like about it, At least from my perspective,

148
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: I bought a team where I didn't have to go

149
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 1: build an arena. Most guys when they buy their teams

150
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: have to go build an arena or you know, sort

151
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,760
Speaker 1: of secure their arena deal. That was certainly the case,

152
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: for example, in Milwaukee. There are issues of remodel right away.

153
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 1: In Atlanta. Um, you know, Memphis had arena issues when

154
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: Robert Kara came in and bought the place. So we

155
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: didn't have any arena issues. We didn't have to say immediately, okay,

156
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 1: let's come up with hundreds of millions of dollars of

157
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: capital to go to go build an arena. That's by

158
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,440
Speaker 1: far the best thing in our situation. The worst thing

159
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 1: is we were the number three guy. We get the

160
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: worst dates to play on. We have the worst economics

161
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 1: in the building. Um you know, we have the smallest

162
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 1: locker room. We pay the increment to tune up the

163
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 1: arena for our games. The Lakers and Kings don't pay that. Yeah,

164
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: it sucks to be the number three guy in a

165
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 1: in a building. I want to talk about Los Angeles

166
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 1: for a second as a sports town. The city now

167
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: has the four major food groups. Of course, basketball two

168
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 1: teams now to NFL teams, the hockey team, and of

169
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,719
Speaker 1: course baseball. Can you describe what it's like in a

170
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 1: sports town is in Los Angeles and what it's like

171
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 1: for fans there There there's obviously a lot of choices

172
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,559
Speaker 1: and a lot of things to do, but there's no

173
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: a heck a lot of people. Check of a lot

174
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,880
Speaker 1: of people, you know, who live within seventy five miles,

175
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: if you will. I think we got seventeen million people

176
00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 1: something like that who live within seventy five That's really

177
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: quite something. So there's a lot of options, but there

178
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 1: are also a lot of people, and I think, you know,

179
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: I think it's great for sports at the end of

180
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 1: the day. Of course, basketball is the best sport. That's

181
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 1: my opinion. Anyway, there's plenty of basketball in the l A. Area. Well,

182
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,400
Speaker 1: speaking of arena ste if you've been around, tell me

183
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,840
Speaker 1: which is your favorite arena, which arena, college, pro, whatever,

184
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 1: or not even basketball? But where have you felt the

185
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 1: best fan experience and what do you do to mimic

186
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 1: that at Staples. I haven't been in every arena. I'm

187
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: not gonna I'm not gonna pretend to have been in

188
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 1: every NBA arena, let alone all these other ones. I'll

189
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 1: tell you what's a heck of a good arena, heck

190
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: of a good stadium. Uh is Crest Field here in

191
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,200
Speaker 1: Seattle for the Seahawks. That thing rocks, It pulses, it

192
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,440
Speaker 1: gets noisy, it supports the team. Uh. You know that's

193
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: what I like. I want the arena if you will

194
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,400
Speaker 1: not only support the amenity and a good fan experience

195
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,560
Speaker 1: from a comfort perspective. I want the enthusiasts to be

196
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 1: able to get out there and actually make a difference

197
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,880
Speaker 1: to their Teamsman makes a tea difference here in Seattle. Uh,

198
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 1: and certainly in some of the NBA arenas, the fans

199
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 1: can really light it up and make a little thougher

200
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 1: on the oponent. Would you be willing to sacrifice some

201
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 1: revenue to have a supporters section much like they have

202
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,520
Speaker 1: in soccer? I mean the real crazies, like a duke

203
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: student section on the floor, jumping up and down. I'm

204
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: not sure you haven't never built in arena. I know

205
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 1: it's expensive, real estates if we were, if we were

206
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: going to build an arena, believe me, I take it through.

207
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,559
Speaker 1: How is it running? The Clippers? Is it different than

208
00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,920
Speaker 1: running Microsoft, And if so, how is it? Well, of

209
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: course it's different in a number of ways. The business challenges,

210
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, they're different, but they're similar in terms of

211
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: the basketball side. The similarity is a little bit, uh,

212
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 1: the fact that the talent is the critical factor. But

213
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 1: of course basketball is very binary. You win, you lose

214
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 1: the seasons over seasons, not the contracts, over the contracts,

215
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,200
Speaker 1: not um you know, not everybody from Microsoft comes up

216
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 1: if you will to stay, and you have to convince

217
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: him to say, at one time of the year, I mean,

218
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 1: we got Chris, we got Blake, we got j J.

219
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 1: You know, we got we got three of the most

220
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 1: important guys. Well yeah, three of the most of the

221
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: four most important. But DJ lists on our team that

222
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: we need to get back. What does the local television

223
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: ratings tell you about the fan appetite for the Clippers?

224
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,439
Speaker 1: You know, Clip Persuit of the Lakers are within spitting

225
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,839
Speaker 1: distance in terms of local ratings. And I don't think

226
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,679
Speaker 1: either one of them are good enough. I think and

227
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 1: both of us have an opportunity to improve our ratings.

228
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a zero sum game. I think

229
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to work hard to keep making the

230
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,280
Speaker 1: fan experience better and better, because again in l A,

231
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 1: there's so many options. It probably hits us even more

232
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 1: on TV than it hits us in turn of coming

233
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,959
Speaker 1: to the arena. Can you guys work together to improve

234
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 1: for everybody? Well? I don't, I don't. I mean I

235
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 1: think what's likely to happen is, uh, the entire league

236
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,080
Speaker 1: will work together, or the league will lead, or one

237
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 1: team will lead in developing new technology to change the

238
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 1: fan experience at home, and all the teams ought to

239
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,560
Speaker 1: participate in that, not just any one team, even two teams.

240
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,800
Speaker 1: All right, Steve, let's have some fun here. Joe Lacob

241
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 1: and our interview said that one day, and not in

242
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,439
Speaker 1: the distant future, by the way, that perhaps Steph Curry's

243
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: pregame routine will be stream to customers and they'll have

244
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 1: to pay for it because it's a cool thing. They

245
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,960
Speaker 1: want to see it. So I was telling this to

246
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 1: one of my colleagues, Jillian Wards, she runs our tech

247
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 1: coverage out of San Francisco. You know what, she said,

248
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,240
Speaker 1: how about a Steve Balmber camp. I would totally pay

249
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: for that. She said, how about you as entertainment of

250
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,280
Speaker 1: camera focused on you? Well, it's really changed the way

251
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the game, and not necessarily for the better.

252
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 1: Something tells me you would forget if that it's even

253
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: on you after thirty seconds. I don't know, you know,

254
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 1: I think the key for us is the attention beyond

255
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 1: our guys would be in the game. Um. You know,

256
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 1: we have a lot of fans going going pretty crazy

257
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 1: for our team. Uh. You know, you could say I'm

258
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: first fan if you will, because I'm the owner. But

259
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 1: I want to see everybody out there, you know, really

260
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: busting a gun for our guys. This is really a

261
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 1: way to intro tech in buildings. Everybody is looking towards

262
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 1: technology to enhance the fan experience, both at home in

263
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 1: the arena as well as for owners to monetize. How

264
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 1: about that in arena experience? Do you see VR goggles?

265
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: Are you one of those? Or do you like the

266
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 1: pristine experience of making the experience in the arena so

267
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 1: different and compelling that people need to be there. I

268
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,199
Speaker 1: think you gotta be thoughtful about it. I want people

269
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,720
Speaker 1: in the building. I want to pumping and pumping. I

270
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,839
Speaker 1: want the people in the building who want the experience

271
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 1: of being in the building. I don't you know? Would

272
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 1: it be my preference? And everybody have their head down

273
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: on their phones but the game's going on. No, that's

274
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,199
Speaker 1: not my preference. Uh. Good technology enhanced the experience without

275
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: taking anything away. Yeah, possible. Particularly we think about VR

276
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,560
Speaker 1: means you're sort of locked in the blind world of

277
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 1: your own but you know some kind of augmented reality

278
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 1: where you're really you got your eyes on the game,

279
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 1: but the glasses that you are are watching the game

280
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 1: through are providing you additional information without including your view

281
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 1: of the game. You want fans in the building. I

282
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 1: know that. But there's a word you left out of

283
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: that sentence. You want and here's the important word. You

284
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 1: want Clippers fans in the building? Yes, I know you do.

285
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: So will we go so far as to g lo

286
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 1: geo locate ticket buyers to keep that Warriors fan from

287
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: coming to l A for that one game a year?

288
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 1: You want local people, Clippers fans perhaps ticket club members.

289
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: You want local fans in the building. How do you

290
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: accomplish that? And is check the way to do it?

291
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: I think there's some opportunities that will have to think

292
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: through if we were to do our own arena, if

293
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,000
Speaker 1: we stay in for Staples. We gotta do, you know,

294
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 1: since you with tie into with the building is capable

295
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: of doing. You know, we'll talk to our landlords at

296
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 1: a e g. About that. You know, their issue isn't

297
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: just people coming down from San Francisco. It's l A

298
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: is such a mixing pot. You've got folks who grew

299
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: up in New York and Chicago and San Francisco, and

300
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, all of those folks are potentially coming into

301
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 1: our building and rooting for for the other guys. And

302
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but you know, we'll have to

303
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: really give it some thought about about that. And you know, um,

304
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 1: it's a free country. You have to give that part

305
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: some thought too. I want to ask about going back

306
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: to Microsoftware. Second, you joined that company in nineteen and

307
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,720
Speaker 1: it's almost like a story of of hitting the lottery

308
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 1: big time. You were only what you were the thirty

309
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: of employee there at the time. Yeah, exactly right. Uh,

310
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a combination of a few things.

311
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 1: Was absolutely lucky. Anytime you have great success, there's some

312
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 1: luck involved. It was a lot of hard work, uh,

313
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, for for Bill Gates, for me, for Paul Allen.

314
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 1: So there's a hard work, work element, and then there's

315
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, uh some some cleverness and some insight, and

316
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 1: no one of those threes enough, but we we were

317
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: fortunate to have a little bit of all three of those.

318
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 1: And basically Paul Allen had a very compelling, you know

319
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 1: sort of vision. They kicked this off and he and

320
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: Bill had worked together for a long time, and Bill

321
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: shared that vision and they got things rolling. And I

322
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: kind of came in, if you will, as the the

323
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 1: little business engines that could and made a very good

324
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: team at the top. We are chatting with Steve Bomber,

325
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 1: owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, and Steve back to

326
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: tech scalable media, you have talked about starting and O

327
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: T T. That is the buzzword these days. It's all

328
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: about over the top, direct to consumer. We see monumental

329
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 1: sports in Washington, ted Leonsis is sort of toying with

330
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 1: this already. What does that enable you to do? And

331
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't give you way more leverage against the local

332
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 1: sort of the traditional broadcast. I don't need you anymore, No,

333
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't need you anymore. What

334
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 1: it'll let you do as an enhanced experience if some

335
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: fans are going to be happy with the experience, you

336
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,399
Speaker 1: could say is sort of free in the sense if

337
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a TV package, you're gonna get regional

338
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,160
Speaker 1: sports including the Clippers in there, and you probably don't

339
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: think of as an incremental cost item. But for people

340
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: who you know are a little more enthusiastic, we want

341
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,960
Speaker 1: to provide a product that, you know, let you see

342
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,919
Speaker 1: the game through the lens of the coach, through fantasy,

343
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: through any seat you want to sit in in the arena.

344
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: We eventually want you to be able to see the

345
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,400
Speaker 1: game as if you were seeing it from the vantage

346
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 1: point of Blake Griffin or Chris Paul. You know, that's

347
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 1: kind of the direction we want to go. Would you

348
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 1: DeAndre Jordan, where you're just living above the rim and

349
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: just put a camera up top the bac more that's

350
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: that area. Would you be so inclined as to really

351
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 1: push for content? Tell your players, tell your owners, Hey,

352
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 1: being part of the Clippers comes with added responsibility, such

353
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 1: as there might be a cameraman with you on the

354
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 1: drive home from a game, and we're looking to you

355
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: to provide content for what we're trying to do. We're

356
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: gonna make our players lives any more complicated than they are.

357
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,360
Speaker 1: Those guys, you know, they work their butts off. They

358
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,639
Speaker 1: have a number of obligations we give them already. We

359
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,479
Speaker 1: we can actually use what we get in smarter ways

360
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,360
Speaker 1: by having software that essentially takes the material, the statistics,

361
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,959
Speaker 1: the video footage that's captured today and let's fans, you know,

362
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,199
Speaker 1: sort of experience in new ways and play with it

363
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 1: new ways. What about ticketing because that's going to be

364
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: a big movement in tech also. Yeah, I think there's

365
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,879
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunities, uh to do two things. To

366
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: price our tickets better in the sense that I think

367
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 1: there's a chance for the fans to get sort of

368
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 1: better price value and the things they want. If you

369
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: really want to ticket, you should really be able to

370
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: pay for it, uh. And there'll be some games for

371
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,159
Speaker 1: people just don't want to pay that much. That should

372
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 1: that should work for folks uh. And at the same time,

373
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: also do a better job in terms of profit realization

374
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: for the team. Did you know, by the way, and

375
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,399
Speaker 1: this is from years of reporting, did you know that

376
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 1: j J isn't really a j J? I think I

377
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 1: read that in his wipe. Oh somebody stole it from me.

378
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: He told me that first that he had his little

379
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,719
Speaker 1: sister when he was younger. He had twin sisters and

380
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: one would say J and the other would say J,

381
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 1: so it just became JJ, even though that's not really

382
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: the initials for his name. I didn't know that s.

383
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 1: Let's promote this stuff on your O T team network

384
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 1: that Steve. I know you are big on game ops.

385
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 1: You know about what to do during time outs. You

386
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 1: know how many T shirts are fired out of the cannon.

387
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: You want people up and up and up. What would

388
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 1: you change about the final three four minutes of a

389
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: basketball game of the same thing it takes forever to

390
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: play the final minutes? Would you change anything? Well, I

391
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 1: think the drama of the final minutes actually for folks

392
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 1: in the arena is pretty exciting. I think it's I

393
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: think the I think it's tough because you'd really like

394
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: the time out to be a little shorter, both in

395
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: the arena and for the fans at home, but still

396
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 1: have the drama. Unfortunately, you know, from the TV perspective,

397
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 1: you also want those time outs to work for you

398
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: because that's when people are most focused in on the game. Um,

399
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect to particularly a national basis. I wouldn't

400
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: expect to see anything change over the life of the

401
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: current TV contracts. But who knows what ESPN and t

402
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: N t up their sleeves. Well, since you brought up ESPN,

403
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 1: I have to ask, you know, the woes are there.

404
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 1: They might be getting some r O I on the

405
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,479
Speaker 1: NBA contract, they're reaching an advertising demo that they like.

406
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: That's fine, but overall that's a tough place right now.

407
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: Do you worry that the big source of revenue might

408
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: be drying up? Or do we look at some other

409
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:11,719
Speaker 1: sources that perhaps are immature? Amazon, Facebook, Google? This is

410
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: the future of broadcasting or narrowcasting it is these days? Well, no,

411
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really worry. I think ESPN, Uh,

412
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're economics or under some pressure.

413
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: But that's going to be a great business for for

414
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: a long period of time. Whether it stays as great

415
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: as it's ever been, I don't know. I'm not not

416
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: an expert in that. And the truth of the matter

417
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: is the NBA is non substitute abal content. We're gonna

418
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: get paid because we have fans who love our game

419
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: and who will want to watch and as the channels

420
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: of distribution may evolved, Uh, the NBA will be strong

421
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: throughout that transition. When there are prospective buyers for teams, Steve,

422
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: I know the league, if all money is equal, they

423
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: like to bring in a partner that can bring added value.

424
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: And of course you and your tech background, that's added value.

425
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: How often, if ever, or even just sitting around the

426
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: Board of Governor meetings, how often does Adam or some

427
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: other league official or another owner say, hey, this is

428
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: your area of expertise, Steve, what do you think we

429
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: should do. How can we approach it differently? Oh? That's ah,

430
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: that's done on a on a on a regular basis.

431
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, if it's time to talk about what can

432
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: be done with broadcast, there is experience with the Wizards,

433
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: as you talked about with Monumental, those guys would be

434
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: called on to you know, to maybe even present if

435
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: you will. When it comes time to think about countries

436
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: outside the US, everyone points at you. You know, you're

437
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: the one to blame for dashing all the dreams of

438
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: these would be owners thinking their valuations are skyrocketing through

439
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: the roof. You're the guy, you know that, right, No,

440
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm the guy who I'm the guy who who helped

441
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: those evaluations go up. Nobody seems to mind that at

442
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: all perspective. Owners, the prospective owners may have a problem,

443
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: not the current honors. Yeah, when they have to fork

444
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: over the check. Thanks Steve, We appreciate you joining us.

445
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: All right, my pleasure. Thanks guys. That was Steve Balmer,

446
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Clippers owner and former CEO of Microsoft. You've

447
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: been listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio

448
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: around the world. We hear each and every week at

449
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: the same time, exploring the world of money and sports.

450
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: I'm Michael barn and I'm Scott Sashnik. Thanks for joining us,

451
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: and please tune in next week when we keep it

452
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: in the NBA with Avenue Capital's Mark Lazarie, co owner

453
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: of the Milwaukee Bus